Graffiti Mafia [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 2

Sigurd

01-11-2007, 21:25

Ok, whoever orchestrated my death either has a photographic memory, or bears a grudge.

In my first ever role as mafioso, I killed someone with an osmium chain (super heavy, drowned someone in pond etc.) I can't actually remember who it was I whacked, but my recent (and unfortunate) death was with the use of osmium. Too specific a metal to be coincidental, So, 2 possibilities i have emerged with.

1) It's the person I killed many moons ago, still angry and dying for revenge (unlikely.)

2) It's someone with a consistent attention to detail, mocking me...perhaps also attempting to frame the said person that I killed so long ago.

Either way, kudos to the mafia for such an interesting and personal death :beam:

err...
If you remember, it was your mafia buddy Disco who got nailed for the osmium. Alas he is the Godfather in this game and I think it likely that this is a 'thanks for old times buddy'.

Masy

01-11-2007, 21:41

If you remember, it was your mafia buddy Disco who got nailed for the osmium. Alas he is the Godfather in this game and I think it likely that this is a 'thanks for old times buddy'.

Hey, how was I to know he was doing a degree in chemistry?!?

Whatever is going on, it looks like the person who wrote the kill did a simple Wikipedia scan (as I did), cos he/she included a bunch of random snatches of scientific info. I am unsure as to why it cropped up (osmium, that is), it must have some relevance...

AggonyDuck

01-11-2007, 21:45

As it is I don't trust either of those darn messages and I am ignoring them. Better to avoid confusion and try to nail the mafia without the mason help.
Now to my vote.

Vote: Sir Moody

Something is a bit wrong in his posts. Can't exactly say what, but something just bothers me about his behaviour. Also the bad grammar in the kills. It is a very apparent frame and thus I believe it might actually be a good tool for the mafia. Why not frame yourself to appear innocent?

Sigurd

01-11-2007, 21:45

Hey, how was I to know he was doing a degree in chemistry?!?

Whatever is going on, it looks like the person who wrote the kill did a simple Wikipedia scan (as I did), cos he/she included a bunch of random snatches of scientific info. I am unsure as to why it cropped up (osmium, that is), it must have some relevance...

Hehe...
*cough*IT WAS DISCO WHO WROTE THE KILL*cough*

:laugh4:

Dutch_guy

01-11-2007, 21:49

Vote:Csar for same reasons as my last vote

You mean these then :

His actions are highly suspicious yet if my guess is wrong, so much for me relying on my diplomatic contacts, above and below ground

I have obviously missed a lot of highly suspicious actions...seems they weren't quite as suspicious to the rest of us so what caught your attention then ? And why did you find his actions, which were ?, so suspicious in the first place ?

Oh, and which diplomatic contacts are you referring to then ?

What do you know what the town doesn't ?

:balloon2:

Masy

01-11-2007, 21:51

Hehe...
*cough*IT WAS DISCO WHO WROTE THE KILL*cough*

I didn't think Disco wrote the kills, but rather he picked the mafia members and then just sat back, immune to any death of any sort?

Sigurd

01-11-2007, 21:57

I didn't think Disco wrote the kills, but rather he picked the mafia members and then just sat back, immune to any death of any sort?
Come on guys.. think like a mafioso for a change...

What would you have done if you were in the position that Disco is now?
He is the Godfather.
He orders who to kill each night.
He can't be lynched.

Do you think he would risk letting his mafiosi get caught sending pm's to Sasaki?
Nah, he writes both kills every night and makes sure his mafiosi hide under the radar.. lurking somewhere in here.

That is what I would have done.

Sir Boo

01-11-2007, 21:59

Ok guys just to give you all some updated statitistics in the lynching...

There is 20 Lynchable people left----

Therefore there is 3 Mafia Mebers left = 15% Chance of Lynching

Therefore there is 4 Pro-Townine Roles = 20% Chance of Lynching

Therefore there is 13 Townies = 65% Chance of Lynching

I will also be voting Csar for his actions. Although they may be small, seeing as no other reel suspisousness has become evident my vote must be for Csar. Unless more evidence becomes aparent...

Vote Csar

Csargo

01-11-2007, 22:05

Sir Boo

01-11-2007, 22:09

Come on guys.. think like a mafioso for a change...

What would you have done if you were in the position that Disco is now?
He is the Godfather.
He orders who to kill each night.
He can't be lynched.

Do you think he would risk letting his mafiosi get caught sending pm's to Sasaki?
Nah, he writes both kills every night and makes sure his mafiosi hide under the radar.. lurking somewhere in here.

That is what I would have done.

I agree, however the mafia will not be completley silent. We should be looking for players who do post yet do not post very frequently and whose posts are normally impartial. For instance the mafia would want to post a small amount as to avoid "Wrath of God". However there posts would also be impartial as to draw little attension.

Although i do bellieve that at least 1 of the mafia are keeping themselves above ground... (as it would be stupid to keep them all below)

(my vote still stands)

Masy

01-11-2007, 22:22

Csargo

01-11-2007, 22:26

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Csar

I think you will find atleast two of your mafia in those four people if not all.

I'm going with Kommodus.

Unvote:Husar
Vote:Kommodus

Masy

01-11-2007, 22:37

I think you will find atleast two of your mafia in those four people if not all.

I'm going with Kommodus.

Unvote:Husar
Vote:Kommodus

You know, it's customary to give some kind of reasoning...:beam:

GeneralHankerchief

01-11-2007, 22:38

Peasant Phill

01-11-2007, 22:45

Hhmm still a very confusing game. Luckely ther's a lot of discussion going on, but non that was very helpful. Some people seem to know some things and don't eventry to hide it.
Take Csar for example he repeatidly gives cryptic remarks at such a frequency that he's almost asking to be lynched. He will probably be lynched this day and he has made no action to save his skin. very strange behavior for any role. The only thing I can come up with is that he has the role of village idiot.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_Game#Optional_roles

But without other suspects:
Vote Csar

Sigurd

01-11-2007, 22:48

Perhaps, but there seems to be something inconsistent about this theory.

1. We can't be sure, but past experience leads me to believe that Sasaki would not include more than one Masonic detective.

2. Sasaki is known to give detectives the results of their investigations at the same time that the results of the night's action are posted. This means that in round 1 they would have zero results to report, in round 2 they'd have one result, etc.

3. The message in the second round contained two sets of numbers, while the message in this round contained none. This seems to conflict with #1 and #2 above.

Still, we don't really know what the special abilities of the masons are, so you might still be right.

And Sigurd... a little patience, please! I've said it before: under my current method, it takes a few rounds to acquire enough data to form a good suspect list. We're only just now getting to that point. I'm at work right now and can't run an analysis, but I will when I get home.

Yes you might be right about the one detective in the group of masons…
Why then put two names in the message if they only had one investigation?
It could be that Peasant Phil is right; that the masons are trying to give us something to work with here the Elimination of possible Mafiosi. A hidden reveal perhaps?

It is good the first name is so darn encrypted.:wall:

We need to shift the attention to 'who to lynch…'

I am looking at Divine Wind the master of lying low, will pop up and say: “sorry but my boss is looking over my shoulder… can’t post on the org during work hours”.

If I were Godfather.. I would have picked him as the wild card. He has the perfect cover. Everyone knows he is pressed for time and will be more or less absent during a game. This is normal for him and he will not pop into the charts of Kommodus’ method. I say we lynch Devine Wind this round.

Csargo

01-11-2007, 22:51

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1380916&postcount=192

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383100&postcount=265

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1380950&postcount=194

I've never seen Csar this analytical before. Most of the time his posts are just friendly banter that don't really do much. I hope for future games' sake that he has taken a turn for the better but right now that, combined with his weird behavior when it comes to voting, makes me think that it is a poorly-executed cover-up.

Vote: Csar

I assure you GH I am no threat to the town. I've just gotten smarter that's all. Playing so many games makes you a better player does it not?

I know how you play and I know how Disco plays. I picked you because of your success in other mafia games in GF2. I think it is very likely that Disco did the same.

GeneralHankerchief

01-11-2007, 22:52

...why'd you just change your nickname?

:inquisitive:

Don Corleone

01-11-2007, 22:55

I voted for Csar last time because he went after Husar on pretty flimsy evidence. I've yet to see anything to contradict that judgement.

Vote: Csar

I also agree with Aggony Duck. We should ignore the messages altogether until we can figure out which ones are mafia product and which ones are from the masons (an outstanding question for the soothsayer to ask, if he's paying attention out there...)

Csargo

01-11-2007, 22:55

Csargo

01-11-2007, 22:57

...why'd you just change your nickname?

:inquisitive:

My old one was getting old I figured it was time for a change.

I voted for Csar last time because he went after Husar on pretty flimsy evidence. I've yet to see anything to contradict that judgement.

Vote: Csar

I also agree with Aggony Duck. We should ignore the messages altogether until we can figure out which ones are mafia product and which ones are from the masons (an outstanding question for the soothsayer to ask, if he's paying attention out there...)

You've come after me with pretty flimsy evidence too. Disco wouldn't pick me as a mafioso anyways.

Sir Boo

01-11-2007, 22:59

After reviewing the evidence i think that Csar is actually inocent. Would a mafia honestly bring such attension to himself? I think not. If Csar's a Mafia i will eat my hat.

I know this wont do much but its a start...

Unvote: Csar
Vote: Abstain

UltraWar

01-11-2007, 23:00

My old one was getting old I figured it was time for a change.
Unvote:Csar
Vote:Ichigo

Csargo

01-11-2007, 23:03

Unvote:Csar
Vote:Ichigo

Your the worst out of the bunch that have voted for me. Atleast they come up with decent reasons, but you nothing of the sort.:mean:

UltraWar

01-11-2007, 23:05

Your the worst out of the bunch that have voted for me. Atleast they come up with decent reasons, but you nothing of the sort.:mean:
I'll give you a reason, a name change seems very suspicious indeed.

Csargo

01-11-2007, 23:07

I'll give you a reason, a name change seems very suspicious indeed.

Hardly worth a vote.

Don Corleone

01-11-2007, 23:13

You've come after me with pretty flimsy evidence too. Disco wouldn't pick me as a mafioso anyways.

Yes, in prior games when I was actually in the mafia, looking for a patsy. :inquisitive:

Csargo

01-11-2007, 23:18

Yes, in prior games when I was actually in the mafia, looking for a patsy. :inquisitive:

I'm still wondering why you bandwagoned me. Your vote did seem a little on the desperate side.

Sigurd

01-11-2007, 23:33

Sir Moody

01-12-2007, 00:07

unvote csar
vote abstain

too much intormation flying around ill need to read this all before i vote the new csar or someone else

GeneralHankerchief

01-12-2007, 00:08

I think we should just cut the crap and go after a real Mafioso. The curse of the third on the wagon has become a reality.

GH that is you!!! Why are you not in the chat with the rest of your buddies?
Hard to lie to our faces is that it?

Vote: GH

:rolleyes:

Yup. So according to your rule, Masy is also guilty, as he was the third to vote for Reenk last round.

Also, Sasaki's going to double-kill you for voting again. :laugh4:

Sir Boo

01-12-2007, 00:14

I have to again reiterate the fact the if Csar was a mafia why is he drawing so much attension to himself, we should be looking to the players who do not post reguarly. The mafia will be keeping under the radar. If so was a mafia hes obvously not a very good one and being a vet i doubt that.

Husar

01-12-2007, 00:27

So, since I have revised my opinion of Csar and despite his voting for me, I am inclined to go with him on Kommodus. I mentioned my suspicions of Kommodus earlier, he'd be an excellent choice by disco and could lead the town astray later by claiming his method came up with this or that. Even if he is innocent, he can still apply his method later. If we find out about his innocence, we can then trust him completely or if the mafia restrain themselves to one kill to leave us in the dark, we gain a lot of time. The town gains something by lynching him now, whether he is mafia or not.
Think about it.

Vote: Kommodus

Kommodus

01-12-2007, 00:42

I know how you play and I know how Disco plays. I picked you because of your success in other mafia games in GF2. I think it is very likely that Disco did the same.

So you voted for me because, naturally, discovery1 would pick me because... er... I tend to get lynched - quickly - in nearly every game? Even when I'm innocent? :dizzy2:

I could've put what would've amounted to a lynch vote on you last round; instead I defended you because I couldn't imagine a mafioso being so blatant as to jump on his team's own false lead. Now you pull even more baffling stunts. Nice timing on the name change, BTW - possibly an attempt to dodge my numerical method by preventing me from tracking your behavior changes? The only other time I can remember you acting this suspicious was in GFII, when for the record, you were the Godfather.

Thanks to your little trick, I've got to re-run a bunch of statistics-gathering stuff (grr). Later this evening I'll try another analysis, but until then:

Vote: Ichigo

EDIT: Hey Husar, trying to give the 'old Kommodus bandwagon some steam? As you so eloquently point out, K would make a great choice for discovery1! He's guilty in every game, or at least a great lynch candidate! Lynch 'im, I say! ~:rolleyes:

Sir Boo

01-12-2007, 00:49

Ignoramus

01-12-2007, 00:51

Vote: Ichigo

GeneralHankerchief

01-12-2007, 00:56

On advice from Sigurd.

Unvote: Csar/Ichigo
Vote: Abstain

-edit- screw it

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: No lynch

AggonyDuck

01-12-2007, 01:09

I don't like any of the current options and I'm kinda regretting the Sir Moody vote. Maybe it is better if we don't lynch anyone this round, because the current votes are based on rather flimsy evidence.

Unvote: Sir Moody
Vote: No Lynch

Husar

01-12-2007, 01:10

EDIT: Hey Husar, trying to give the 'old Kommodus bandwagon some steam? As you so eloquently point out, K would make a great choice for discovery1! He's guilty in every game, or at least a great lynch candidate! Lynch 'im, I say! ~:rolleyes:
You yourself proclaimed that your new method was so good that the mafia could hardly avoid it so he may have chosen you simply to avoid that big thread. I could say you brought it upon yourself. It's not my fault that you are such a good lynch candidate. Should we avoid all good lynch candidates and go for the suspected masons first?

Sigurd

01-12-2007, 01:17

Vote: Ichigo
Now why are you suddenly appearing after missing two votes and join the flimsy bandwagon on Csar without giving a reason?
Were you ordered by your Godfather?

Kommodus

01-12-2007, 01:18

umm this is pure speculation however Kommodus Discovery1 could have picked you to prevent the Kommodus detection agency. Therfore by picking you it therfore saves his mafia teem from a proclaimed "Mafia Hunter"...

Heckuva lot easier just to get me lynched, destroying my credibility and my vote simultaneously. He'd know this after I destroyed his team in Mafia IV. People have been suspicious of me since round 1, so I'd say it's working pretty well - wouldn't you?

Xiahou

01-12-2007, 01:18

I'm beginning to think that Csar/Ichigo either is the soothsayer, or at the very least is trying to make us think he is.

There is a simple answer to what you conclude. I have no role neither am I a village idiot. I wouldn't doubt that I will be lynched. Cryptic remarks? Nah Everything I've said has been the truth.Unless I'm mistaken, the soothsayer gets to ask one question and then reverts to a townie (no role) after receiving an answer. Keeping this theme, and reading his posts, it would appear that he asked his question in reference to the graffiti.

One thing that there is little doubt about is that the 'poetic' graffiti clearly points the finger at Husar. So, if it's to be believed, my vote is clear.

vote: Husar

An unanswered question would be why Reenk (who was apparently innocent) seems intent on seeing Csar killed though. If the mime has anything to add, I'm all eyes and I'd like to hear more from Csar as well. :yes:

Husar

01-12-2007, 01:18

Sasaki Kojiro

01-12-2007, 01:30

Vote Count:

Ichigo 5 (Ultrawar,Peasant Phill,Don,Kommodus,Ignoramus)
No-Lynch 4 (ituralde,GH,Duck,Husar)
doc_bean 2 (doc_bean,discovery1)
Husar 1(Xiahou)
Kommodus 1 (Ichigo)

Abstain 2(Sir Boo,Sir Moody)

Csargo

01-12-2007, 02:31

Unvote:Kommodus
Vote:No-Lynch

For now.

Reenk Roink

01-12-2007, 02:52

Crap, I'm going to stop kidding around because Csar is about to die.

You can't kill him OK? This means you Ultrawar, Peasant Phill, Don Corleone, Kommodus, and Ignoramus...

My "Bolshevik Revolution" thing was a joke, I was never suspicious of Csar (others were at that time).

Fact is, we have good reason to believe that Csar may be helpful to the town, and while I am not fully convinced of it, I see it more than plausible enough to let him live for now.

Another thing that I have to give to Csar is his class last turn. He played it cool, not retaliation voting (which is a perfectly ethical and justifiable thing to do). He's a good man, you gotta give him that.

If he was worried about dying, why wouldn't he retaliate? Sure, it could be some ploy, but that's a weak case.

If you vote Csar, you help commies, kapeesh? :stare:

Csar, vote No Lynch to save yourself.

To the Mafia...

You suck! :tongue3:

Csargo

01-12-2007, 02:53

So you voted for me because, naturally, discovery1 would pick me because... er... I tend to get lynched - quickly - in nearly every game? Even when I'm innocent? :dizzy2:

I could've put what would've amounted to a lynch vote on you last round; instead I defended you because I couldn't imagine a mafioso being so blatant as to jump on his team's own false lead. Now you pull even more baffling stunts. Nice timing on the name change, BTW - possibly an attempt to dodge my numerical method by preventing me from tracking your behavior changes? The only other time I can remember you acting this suspicious was in GFII, when for the record, you were the Godfather.

Thanks to your little trick, I've got to re-run a bunch of statistics-gathering stuff (grr). Later this evening I'll try another analysis, but until then:

Vote: Ichigo

EDIT: Hey Husar, trying to give the 'old Kommodus bandwagon some steam? As you so eloquently point out, K would make a great choice for discovery1! He's guilty in every game, or at least a great lynch candidate! Lynch 'im, I say! ~:rolleyes:

No I picked you out because your methods would be deadly in any mafia game. The fact if your lynched quickly or not has nothing to do with the fact that if your mafia then you can't use your own methods on your own teammates.

Your loss Kommodus, but that won't stop me anyways. I have no team I've already said that I have no team(and it's quite annoying repeating it). I am a loner on my own. What do you take me for an idiot? Don't be so foolish you can track me all you want, my behaviors, my posts, etc. I have nothing to hide from you.

You know that's interesting because no one had any idea I was GF until the last round. Don't you remember? I kept a low profile the entire game until the end barely posting at all. You can think what you want, but this is completely different.

Don't lie changing a name doesn't change any of the posts nor anything in them. Seems your slipping up Kommodus.

Ichigo

Csargo

01-12-2007, 03:02

Seamus Fermanagh

01-12-2007, 03:56

Interesting, I read this thread pp. 7-11 all within one hour as a continguous package. This round, ICsarhigo was squirming in the winds for most of the round, and then the votes swung to "No Lych" almost as if by magic.

Ichi-Csar: Your defense was jumpy and you were flailing -- characteristics I associate with mafia under pressure.

On the other hand, Sigurd and GH have both shifted significantly.

For now, I will hold my suspicion in abeyance.

Vote: No Lynch

Xiahou

01-12-2007, 03:56

I really don't think these "no lynch" votes are very wise- they almost always work in the mafia's favor....

"No lynch" or "No kill" - sometimes the Innocents are allowed to vote not to kill anyone on a particular daytime cycle. In general, although Villagers will often feel they do not have enough information to kill someone, this is a bad choice because the Villagers are more likely to vote off a Mafia member than the Mafia are to kill a Mafia member. Furthermore, because a player's role is generally revealed when that player is lynched, it provides the Villagers with reliable and irrefutable information. However, when there are an even number of Villagers, this can be a good choice. For example, when there are four Villagers remaining (including one Mafia), voting not to kill someone will result in a 1/3 chance to kill the Mafia the next day as opposed to a 1/4 chance. Note than voting incorrectly in either situation will end the game (resulting in a 1 Mafia/1 Innocent standoff, which is almost always resolved by the Narrator in favor of the Mafia).

Edit: I can only imagine what Sasaki would be saying were he playing and not narrating...

Seamus Fermanagh

01-12-2007, 04:01

Csargo

01-12-2007, 04:21

I thank you Seamus. :bow: You will not be disappointed.

Kommodus

01-12-2007, 04:34

Don't lie changing a name doesn't change any of the posts nor anything in them. Seems your slipping up Kommodus.

*sigh* All the data from the previous games, which I use to calculate statistics for comparison, is stored in a database - a database with your old name in it. Since matching is done by name, that means all that data needed to be repopulated due to your name change. That takes some time - though next time I'll use shortcuts.

Also, I was kinda frustrated with the whole "hey everybody, let's lynch Kommodus, because... well... because he's Kommodus" line of reasoning. :wall:

Anyway, now that I've got my database back in order, I'm going to:

Unvote: Ichigo
Vote: Sir Moody

He's now my top suspect because:

1. His statistics fall within the range of expected mafia behavior.

2. He registers a very marked behavior change with regard to his posting patterns.

3. He's tried to (somewhat subtly) draw suspicion on me since the opening round.

Anyway, my #1 suspect in Interficio was wrong, so this might change as the game progresses.

Csargo

01-12-2007, 04:40

Csargo

01-12-2007, 05:35

Disco and GH what's so interesting that you can't discuss it with everyone else?

Sasaki Kojiro

01-12-2007, 06:14

No-Lynch 6 (Ituralde,GH,Duck,Husar,Ichigo,Seamus)
Ichigo 4 (Ultrawar,Peasant Phill,Don,Ignoramus)
doc_bean 2 (doc_bean,discovery1)
Husar 1(Xiahou)
Sir Moody(Ichigo)

Abstain 2(Sir Boo,Sir Moody)

***

Killed (5):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Warluster
Masy

Lynched(1):
Reenk Roink

Alive: (21):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Ichigo

pm's please

Csargo

01-12-2007, 08:35

GH is a mafioso. Him and Disco were having a little chat via PM's a little while ago.

Ignoramus

01-12-2007, 09:42

Husar

01-12-2007, 11:06

You stupid fools! After three rounds, we have only lynched one person. Now how is that going to stop the mafia? So far 5 innocent people have been butchered by the mafia, while only one person has been lynched. This is getting us nowhere.
You are a funny guy.:laugh4:
First you don't even know who is dead, then vote Ichigo without giving any reason in your post(very convincing) and now you think that all the rest are fools...
Maybe you have something to hide since so far you didn't seem to have that much to offer besides a personal attack on everyone else...:juggle2:

Ignoramus

01-12-2007, 11:35

For some reason, I'm finding harder and harder to do anything but make blind accusations.

When the first mafia games started, everyone wasn't really experienced in either playing as the mafia or finding the mafia out as a townsmen.

However, now everyone's so experienced that it's impossible to pick who's guilty.

Personally, I dislike the fact that most of the games lately have allowed one person pick the mafia. It means that all the really experienced guys get picked rather than allowing the less experienced players a chance to make mistakes.

In a way I think it would be if the mafioso made occasional accidental blunders. I have not been in the mafia yet and I doubt I will ever get in, but I am trying to discover the mafia just like everyone else.

It was a basic mistake and oversight on my part to forget that Caius was already killed by the mafia, and I admit it makes my look stupid. But I cannot detect people's writing styles as easily as others, and I don't really have the time to spend hours analyzing every single player to see if I can discover a clue here and there.

Personally, I think that we should try and be less analyzing in our approach and just be unreasonable or illogical in our voitng and accusations. It is true that the town's job is to catch the mafia, but I really feel left out of these games as I am hopeless at trying to discover the mafia. And this silly No Vote is just ridiculous as stated in my last post.

Sir Moody

01-12-2007, 12:10

*sigh* All the data from the previous games, which I use to calculate statistics for comparison, is stored in a database - a database with your old name in it. Since matching is done by name, that means all that data needed to be repopulated due to your name change. That takes some time - though next time I'll use shortcuts.

Also, I was kinda frustrated with the whole "hey everybody, let's lynch Kommodus, because... well... because he's Kommodus" line of reasoning. :wall:

Anyway, now that I've got my database back in order, I'm going to:

Unvote: Ichigo
Vote: Sir Moody

He's now my top suspect because:

1. His statistics fall within the range of expected mafia behavior.

2. He registers a very marked behavior change with regard to his posting patterns.

3. He's tried to (somewhat subtly) draw suspicion on me since the opening round.

Anyway, my #1 suspect in Interficio was wrong, so this might change as the game progresses.

Ah if that is the case then I apoligize if anything I said offended you(heat of th moment kinda thing:beam:)

Don't worry I'm not trying to lynch you because your Kommodus. I'm trying to lynch you because your a good player and your skills are to be feared. It's unlikely that Disco could pass up selecting you as a mafioso. :bow:

my exact reason too - the list of suspects i posted were people i think most likely would be recruited by a Godfather - in Kommodus's case its his amazing skill at finding mafia without actually releasing HOW hes doing it - makes the perfect mafia member to get annoying villagers lynched, all he needs to do is say his methods say they are mafia and wham they are normally gone.

my posting style actually probably has changed too - after hosting a game i have a far better grasp of the game now and its bound to effect the way i post but i guess i cant argue with kommodus really since we dont have any idea HOW he pegs people to be mafia...

Dutch_guy

01-12-2007, 15:28

X-man:

Numerically, you are correct. A No lynch now, with one earlier no lynch and one single-murder evening, does not create another round of voting in the end-game.

On the other hand, a bloc ov votes, led by Siggy, are holding off on what would have been a strong wagon against Csar-Ichi. Since Siggy died to prove his innocence, I'm willing to listen for the moment.

This sounds reasonable indeed. That said, his behavior is quite different from when he really was a bad guy - which is in his favour in my view at least.

That said, UltraWar why didn't you even bother to respond to my post earlier ?

Post 276 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383171&postcount=276) and 278 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383183&postcount=278) are excellent examples of why I asked you what I did earlier...

:balloon2:

Don Corleone

01-12-2007, 15:36

This is Don Corlone speaking (more on the name change below). Yesterday was my anniversery, so I had no time to check the board last night, and thus missed Reenk's big arrival.

Reenk, listen to me very, very carefully. Unless you are really pissed off at the regular mafia players, please stop the smiley-business. It hurts the town badly, as it forces us to look down blind alleys. If you're trying to guarantee a mafia victory, then by all means, keep it up. I know I was a little harsh on you last game, but I thought you understood my apology. Please allow me to offer it again. I am sorry that I went after you in the early game. As I said, I needed a patsy to cover my crimes, and your role-playing (and Kommodus's big statement) were just too valuable to pass up. I apologize if I hurt your feelings, I meant nothing by it. Now please stop trying to hurt the town.

Csar/Ichigo:I need to do some research, but your moves against Husar and Kommodus had me rather suspicious. I'll buy your explanation for going after Kommodus (makes sense), but surely you're experienced enough to know that until we know which sets of grafiti we can believe (the mythology or the numbers), we shouldn't pay attention to either. It was this that made me more suspicious of you then anyone else.

What I know so far:

-We're no closer to knowing which set of posts to believe. Sigurd's numerology aside, I can't believe the mafia would be that blatant.

-The mafia have a big lead on us. That's okay, we can close ground quickly.

-We still have no idea what the additional roles might be. Hopefully the narrator will reveal more to us soon.

-To the Soothsayer: If you haven't been killed yet, and we haven't determined it yet, your question MUST be which set of grafiti to believe. There's no other question so important.

-To the Masons... Clearly, we're not getting it. Rather then relying on us getting which set of grafiti to believe, write it as though we'll read it in 3 game-days time, as it may take us that long to figure it out.

-To the Mafia... laugh all you want, we're coming for you!

-To all: My name change.... Seamus is starting the piece d' resistance (spelling, Louis?) of mafia games, based on a vendetta between the five families. Obviously, confusion would erupt if there was a Don Corleone the game character and Don Corleone the board poster, so I've changed my name for the duration of the game (or however long the namechange back takes, I think 1 month minimum). If you don't know who Tom Hagen is, and why that's an appropriate replacement for now, go rent the Godfather trilogy this weekend. :whip:

Reenk Roink

01-12-2007, 16:18

Reenk, listen to me very, very carefully. Unless you are really pissed off at the regular mafia players, please stop the smiley-business. It hurts the town badly, as it forces us to look down blind alleys. If you're trying to guarantee a mafia victory, then by all means, keep it up. I know I was a little harsh on you last game, but I thought you understood my apology. Please allow me to offer it again. I am sorry that I went after you in the early game. As I said, I needed a patsy to cover my crimes, and your role-playing (and Kommodus's big statement) were just too valuable to pass up. I apologize if I hurt your feelings, I meant nothing by it. Now please stop trying to hurt the town.

Don (or Tom), several things:

1) I do not know why you are apologizing (and why you apologized in the past). You haven't done anything to me. :huh: Whatever it is, consider it pardoned. You owe me no apology. If it is because of Inteficio, it's no big deal that you go after me in a game, you are just playing the game.

I can understand that. :yes:

2) I am not trying to (intentionally) hurt the town. I never try to (intentionally) hurt the town when I do not have a Mafia type role. The only times when I intentionally tried to hurt the town was when I was Mafia. Now, I may hurt the town in other ways, but it is not intentional. In fact, my smiley thing hurt me the most. That was unintentional...

3) My smiley things are just for me to have fun. Just like my Senator thing, my List, my Fan Club, my abstaining courteously, and any other thing I have done in these games. I like to keep it fresh and change the way I play every game (even if I will show up on Kommodus' method). I find the point of these games is to amuse myself. I really have never cared about winning until the very end of the game, when it pops up as urgent (even when I was Mafia, I just screwed around until the end where I got serious).

4) I will, by default, try to help the town if I am not Mafia. Now, I was having my fun with the smilies and all, but now, as dead, I can go around more freely, and be more beneficial to the town. That is why I came out and spoke for Csar. A good guy asked me to do so, and I took his advice. You guys should not kill him now.

UltraWar

01-12-2007, 16:30

This sounds reasonable indeed. That said, his behavior is quite different from when he really was a bad guy - which is in his favour in my view at least.

That said, UltraWar why didn't you even bother to respond to my post earlier ?

Post 276 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383171&postcount=276) and 278 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383183&postcount=278) are excellent examples of why I asked you what I did earlier...

:balloon2:

I didn't spend enough time reading the post so I've looked back at it.

I do know something that the rest of the townspeople don't know, yet I will not reveal it because it will result in me becoming a mafia target again

Let's see who will be assassinated next and I'll tell you if I survive

Sasaki Kojiro

01-12-2007, 17:30

No.

Sigurd

01-12-2007, 18:32

No.
Let me guess...
The soothsayer used the one chance ability to ask a question... I sincerely hope it was useful and not something in the lines of what Don suggested.
I thought that it was established already which messages belonged to which faction.
That people still questions this is EXTREMELY suspicious.

Now... Soothsayer. If you sit on an answer that will be helpful to the town.. find a way to pass it along to us.
We are aware of the fact that the mafia might use this opertunity to lead us astray.

Csargo

01-12-2007, 21:10

Csar/Ichigo:I need to do some research, but your moves against Husar and Kommodus had me rather suspicious. I'll buy your explanation for going after Kommodus (makes sense), but surely you're experienced enough to know that until we know which sets of grafiti we can believe (the mythology or the numbers), we shouldn't pay attention to either. It was this that made me more suspicious of you then anyone else.

I understand DC. Following the graffiti was a foolish thing to do and I realize it now. Hence I stopped my attack on Husar once I realized how foolish it was.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-12-2007, 21:25

Zero Votes So Far:

Divine Wind, Dutch Guy

No Active Votes:

Husar [No L, DNV, No L], Ituralde [No L, DNV, No L]

Limited Active Voting:

JimBob [No L, Reenk, DNV], Kommodus [No L, Abs, Moody], Peasant Phil [DNV, DNV, Ichigo], Seamus [Abs, Reenk, No L], Sir Moody [Prole, Abs, Abs]

--Commentary:

DivWin and Dutch are prone to stretches like this, gets them wogged from time to time. Could be a cover, but if so its a plausible one.

The oddest thing about Husar and Ituralde is the exact parallel of their votes. Bloc voting is not safe mafia behavior (and hence mitigates against their guilt), but with Disco taking on the details of the kills to minimize accidental clues, it might not be as risky.

Seamus and Kommodus are usually more active in their votes, though when they do abstain/no lynch, it is in the early game before their analytical styles start turning up data relationships. Continuing in this vein, by either, would be suspicious. JimBob is usually pretty active in voting, so this is unusual for him, though Phil's missing a couple of votes is not out of character for him (he also tends to lurk a bit in the first round or two because he's been a murder victim early on in games too often).

Moody is indeed out of character. Abstain votes are a regular tool for him, but not during those phases when he's actively in the discussion or posting frequently. However, having just GM'ed his own game, his style may be evolving -- a plausible point.

Ichigo's defense when under pressure last round is suspect. The tone of his posts and his readiness to counter-punch in different directions with different posts are symptoms of a active role under pressure. Some of the dead have asked us to lay off of him though, so it is possible that we're wasting time and barking up the wrong tree.

RE: Graffiti

We are going to have to dig into this a bit more. Whatever the cost in confusion, approximately half of the messages will be intended to assist the town in its hunt. Sasaki is a crafty fellow, and he is setting this up as a prime link -- and is fully capable of editing out any other clues to force us into his games designed framework. So let's start some lit-crit efforts.

Csargo

01-12-2007, 21:40

Ichigo's defense when under pressure last round is suspect. The tone of his posts and his readiness to counter-punch in different directions with different posts are symptoms of a active role under pressure. Some of the dead have asked us to lay off of him though, so it is possible that we're wasting time and barking up the wrong tree.

How wrong you are.

Sigurd

01-12-2007, 22:26

Hi there people.
I am on PDA for the rest of the weekend.
Needless to say, my chat participation will be limited.

Ituralde

01-13-2007, 03:05

So let's get this started I guess. The No from Sasaki was caused by me. I am the soothsayer.

I received the following PM by Sasaki before the first round:

You are the soothsayer:
You may ask me one and only one yes/no question at any time during the game. I will answer you in the thread with either a "yes" or a "no". Obviously asking this question later in the game will give you more information, but by then you may be dead...and of course you will have to watch out for mafia claiming to be the soothsayer.

Sasaki Kojiro

Then I sent this PM to him during this night phase, the entailing question has been answered above by Sasaki.

Time to use my special ability, I guess:

''Townies, fear not for we are doing our best to rid you of this evil ! Feel free to call these numbers, anytime:
0800 2664 6662368 or, if that line is busy 0800 9275 87837. We are here to help, we must work together !''

''We do not write in prose, look to the numbers. We are trying to help, and we might even have succeeded in helping an individual, but keep the discussions going !''

Were the two messages above written by the Mafia?

So this means that the short messages were written by the Masons indeed. This is not the exact result I had hoped for, because those messages can be easily forged by the Mafia in the future. Still It's something to go on and should let us forget some of the confusion caused by them. Unlike Sigurd I'm not of the oppinion that the source of the messages was clear so this was the most useful question I could think of.

I already pointed at the possibility in my last thread and to be frank, I was getting more and more afraid of being killed by the Mafia, which would have rendered me useless.

I'm sure that conclusion will help the town as we know have a clearer link to the masons and they should be able to communicate better with us.

Have a good night and see you tomorrow!

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 05:14

A very interesting turn of events.

Ituralde's reveal does seem genuine to me - he is confirming what I suspected and it looks a lot like Sasaki's Detective PMs to me from previous games. Also, there has been no challenge of his reveal so by default it looks like he's the real thing.

I do wish he had asked a better question; all this does is give us the names of a few innocents (I will not repeat them here in case the mafia are thick or haven't cracked the code yet).

With this information, I do have a couple of suspects but will wait for the kills to post anything.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 05:31

Alas, what a waste of your question. :no:

Sasaki Kojiro

01-13-2007, 06:14

Don Corleone was returnig home from work one evening, when suddenly a large man with long blonde hair and a red beard leaped out from behind a tree holding a large club. SMACK! With one heavy blow to the head, the lights went out…

…when he came to, he quickly realized two things. First, he couldn’t move. Second, he was moving. He was stapped to a raft that was floating down the river outside of town. As he tried to collect his wits, he realized he was headed straight for a…

…WATERFALL! Moments later, the raft went over the edge. Yeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh! screamed Don as the raft plummeted over a hundred feet. If he was going to die, this was a a really fun way to go!

...but it was not to be, as the pool at the bottom of the water was deep. Don came up spluttering, no longer tied to the raft. He was alive! Or so he thought, until he felt a painful bite, then another ad another…

…PIRANAS! Don started swimming as fast as he could towards the shore. The fish were ferocious, but so was his will to live, and soon he stood, dripping and bleeding, on the shore. I’m alive! he said to no one in particular. He started walking back towards down. After a few steps he heard a sharp CLICK beneath his feet. One second later, a network of dozens of land mines exploded, blowing him to smithereens.

***

Divine Wind was also found dead in his house, it appears he has committed seppuku.

Killed (6):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Warluster
Masy
Don Corleone

Lynched(1):
Reenk Roink

Suicide(1):
Divine Wind

Alive: (19):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Seamus Fermanagh
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Ichigo

Begin voting.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 07:22

Vote:GH

For reasons stated before.

Xiahou

01-13-2007, 07:33

Ignoramus

01-13-2007, 07:37

Vote: General Hankerchief. I should have known would be one of the mafia.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 07:43

Ok, GH has some explaining to do.
Here's the chatroom screenie for those who weren't there:
https://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6236/screen1all1.jpg
Lenin was the name discovery1 was using in the chat... it would seem they were having a little conversation on the side there. :stare:

vote:GH

I'm not sure that's allowed.

My reasoning for voting GH is as follows:

Disco was PMing someone yesterday so I went back and looked at all the people online during that time. It was between GH and Jimbob so I watched Disco for a while. Then went back and looked at the online users and Jimbob was gone so it was down to GH was the only one left so right after Disco finished PMing I went and looked at GH's profile. Not a minute later GH's profile showed him PMing. Once I found out he was finished I went back and watched Disco's profile. A few minutes later Disco was PMing again. Hence the reasoning for my vote.

Sasaki Kojiro

01-13-2007, 07:54

I'm not sure that's allowed.

It's ok. Unlike pm's, chatlogs can't be faked, because there are witnesses.

Xiahou

01-13-2007, 07:57

I'm not sure that's allowed.I cleared it before posting. :bow:

Interestingly, the same phenomenon occurred later as well, except this time it was:
*** GH has signed off IRC (Quit: Ichigo)I also grabbed a screenie of that, but am too lazy to crop/upload/post it atm, but I will if it becomes necessary to do so.

I assume this means Ichigo and GH were also chatting. Can anyone explain why that message shows up in chat? Regardless, my vote stays.

discovery1

01-13-2007, 07:58

And what time exactly was this Csar? I do believe Ignoramus should be able to explain me PMing, or yourself for that matter, if I remeber the time correctly.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 08:07

And what time exactly was this Csar?

Yesterday 4:35 around that time. You can't expect me to remember exactly.

Why does it matter unless your trying to defend your own mafioso Disco? You screwed yourself by posting that.

discovery1

01-13-2007, 08:09

Yesterday around 11 or 12 Central Standard Time. You can't expect me to remember exactly.

Why does it matter unless your trying to defend your own mafioso Disco? You screwed yourself by posting that.

I can actually, since I sent you a PM around that same time. You and Ignoramus, and Hepcat but he's not playing.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 08:13

I can actually, since I sent you a PM around that same time. You and Ignoramus, and Hepcat but he's not playing.

I was wrong and editted my post to show that. It was around the time I posted this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383678&postcount=308)

Sir Boo

01-13-2007, 10:41

Well now looking at the evidence posted by Xiahou and Ichigo. I do indeed believe that GH is a mafia so therfore...

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

UltraWar

01-13-2007, 12:50

Vote:GeneralHankerchief

My first prediction seems right..

Looking at the evidence posted by Xiahou as I can't believe Ichigo for various reasons. GH is guilty.

doc_bean

01-13-2007, 13:12

vote:GeneralH

for chatting in private rooms :inquisitive:

AggonyDuck

01-13-2007, 15:00

I must say that kill/message wise, this has been an interesting night. Only one successful kill and no messages from either the masons or the mafia. So I bet that the masons have managed to stop yet another murder attempt. So how come there was no message from the masons this time? Maybe the masons don't have such an easy access to information as we had previously thought.

Anyway to my vote. GH is definately looking guilty and that's definately enough for me.

Vote: GH

Kommodus

01-13-2007, 15:44

To add to what has been said, remember this?

Graffiti ideas sound good. This could be a big help to us in the future. Or, possibly a huge hinderance. Since it's clear that only one message has been up today, and we know who it's from, this gives the town an advantage because we know from the get-go the style of the masonic messages.

That was posted right after round 1, when the only graffiti message was from the mafia - as we now know thanks to the soothsayer. Trying to build some credibility for your team's false clues, eh General? :inquisitive:

I've still got my eye on Sir Moody, but you were also on my short list of suspects, buddy. Though nice job trying to match your past behavior. :yes:

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 15:48

Okay, so the mafia wants a fight? Well, bring it on. Since they can't kill me (this is the second time they've tried, with no luck) they're forced to lynch me in order to take me out of the game. Well, it's not going to be that easy, guys.

You are the Kung-fu master:
You are a pro-town role that is impossible to kill at night. If a mafioso attempts to kill you, you will successfully fight them off and injure them, making them unable to perform a night action for one round. You may also get a glimpse of your attacker. The mafia do not know about this role. This is a passive role, so no PMs are required. I will inform you of when you are attacked.

Sasaki

So, after barely surviving a lynch vote in the first round, I receive this PM around the same time the one kill is posted:

Late at night you are awoken by the sound of the front door creaking open downstairs. You quickly prepare yourself as the mafioso makes his way up the stairs, and when he reaches the top you spring from your hiding spot and roundhouse kick him back down. You fail to catch the identity of your attacker but you see him leave. He is clearly injured. He won't be doing anything for at least another night.

And then, I received this when the one kill was posted last night:

Once again your sleep is interrupted by someone breaking in, this time through the window. He charges up the stairs, and you are forced to engage him and knock the gun out of his hand, which you do so. After a nasty shot to the chest, your attacker tumbles down the stairs. You can see during this tumble that it is the same person who attacked you as last time, and that person is Ichigo. Once again you have injured him, and he won't be killing anybody for at least another night.

I think, by the one kill last night, the mafia realized that they had stumbled upon an unkillable role, so they put Plan B in action. I must say, it's working rather splendidly. I mean, you get the classic bandwagon-followers, Ignoramus and AggonyDuck, who have done nothing this game but vote with the crowd, against me, so that's two. You get the mafia of course, Ichigo and Xiahou against me (that screenshot is clearly doctored, did you see the weird area around Quit:Lenin?), and their boss, Disco, is even stepping in to defend me. And by the way, that whole PM thing is a load of crap. Does Ichigo have any evidence? Any screenshots? No, he just says "I saw GH PMing, lynch him!" It's working marvelously, you sheep. Congratulations. World-class effort, guys.

And let me guess. After I die the mafia are going to go to one kill per round so that the guys who voted for me (even those that did nothing but bandwagon) will pat themselves on the back and go "good job, we got ourselves a bad guy lynched."

So yeah, vote for me if you want. I, however, will finish the job that Ichigo tried to do on me twice and that I almost did on him last round before Sigurd stupidly convinced me to do so otherwise.

VOTE: ICHIGO

Husar

01-13-2007, 15:59

I don't really know what to think about Xiahou's screenshot. The quite message can be typed in whenever you quit and can be set in certain programs to a standard message in Trillian it's a link to the Trillian homepage by default but that doesn't mean you had a private conversation with the Trillian homepage, does it? Maybe some programs write the priivate conversations in there but we should verify that instead of just assuming it.

Now there is disco jumping in to defend GH somehow. While that would usually make me vote for GH I just took the emergency brake since the mafia tries to make certain people look suspicious with the graffity already. That means disco might jump to aid GH only to get him lynched.

The problem is that disco in his almighty evil position can play with us and we gain nothing at all from it. The chatlog doesn't convince me yet, I want to hear what GH has to say before I do anything.

Dutch_guy

01-13-2007, 15:59

Very, very interesting.

Food for thought, that *GH's reveal I mean !*

The reveal looks real, but it does come at a time where a reveal usually is the only way out. Plus, the descriptions in the PM's fit your writing style better than they do Sasaki's, plus you do have it in you to forge such PM's. It wouldn't be the first fake reveal now would it.

As said, we should think about it - but to change votes with little thought isn't good either !

:balloon2:

doc_bean

01-13-2007, 16:13

a'right

unvote:GeneralH
vote:Csar

Kommodus

01-13-2007, 16:42

Not buying it this time, GH. :no:

As he has repeatedly said (and as experience makes clear), Sasaki is not much of a writer. I highly doubt he'd send you PMs like that just to tell you that you were attacked when he barely ever even writes a kill/lynch story.

that screenshot is clearly doctored, did you see the weird area around Quit:Lenin?

Um, no. :inquisitive: After examining it closely, it looks legit to me. If it's fake that's one heck of a forgery.

Even if the chat log, my method's predictions, and various other pieces of evidence weren't convincing, your fabricated defense rubber-stamps it. My vote stands.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 16:44

Okay, so the mafia wants a fight? Well, bring it on. Since they can't kill me (this is the second time they've tried, with no luck) they're forced to lynch me in order to take me out of the game. Well, it's not going to be that easy, guys.

You are the Kung-fu master:
You are a pro-town role that is impossible to kill at night. If a mafioso attempts to kill you, you will successfully fight them off and injure them, making them unable to perform a night action for one round. You may also get a glimpse of your attacker. The mafia do not know about this role. This is a passive role, so no PMs are required. I will inform you of when you are attacked.
Sasaki

So, after barely surviving a lynch vote in the first round, I receive this PM around the same time the one kill is posted:

Late at night you are awoken by the sound of the front door creaking open downstairs. You quickly prepare yourself as the mafioso makes his way up the stairs, and when he reaches the top you spring from your hiding spot and roundhouse kick him back down. You fail to catch the identity of your attacker but you see him leave. He is clearly injured. He won't be doing anything for at least another night.

And then, I received this when the one kill was posted last night:

Once again your sleep is interrupted by someone breaking in, this time through the window. He charges up the stairs, and you are forced to engage him and knock the gun out of his hand, which you do so. After a nasty shot to the chest, your attacker tumbles down the stairs. You can see during this tumble that it is the same person who attacked you as last time, and that person is Ichigo. Once again you have injured him, and he won't be killing anybody for at least another night.

I think, by the one kill last night, the mafia realized that they had stumbled upon an unkillable role, so they put Plan B in action. I must say, it's working rather splendidly. I mean, you get the classic bandwagon-followers, Ignoramus and AggonyDuck, who have done nothing this game but vote with the crowd, against me, so that's two. You get the mafia of course, Ichigo and Xiahou against me (that screenshot is clearly doctored, did you see the weird area around Quit:Lenin?), and their boss, Disco, is even stepping in to defend me. And by the way, that whole PM thing is a load of crap. Does Ichigo have any evidence? Any screenshots? No, he just says "I saw GH PMing, lynch him!" It's working marvelously, you sheep. Congratulations. World-class effort, guys.

And let me guess. After I die the mafia are going to go to one kill per round so that the guys who voted for me (even those that did nothing but bandwagon) will pat themselves on the back and go "good job, we got ourselves a bad guy lynched."

So yeah, vote for me if you want. I, however, will finish the job that Ichigo tried to do on me twice and that I almost did on him last round before Sigurd stupidly convinced me to do so otherwise.

VOTE: ICHIGO

I was wondering why you took so long to defend yourself, but now I know why.

I'm sure you've had this planned out from the beginning. Why would the mafia try to kill you twice in a row if you didn't die the first time? That would be dumb and they'de know that you had some special role that couldn't be killed.

Your contradicting yourself GH. If I attacked you during the second round then how is it possible that I attacked you again in the third? Your evidence has many holes in it. I guess because you weren't ready to false reveal this early. Come back when everything from your reveal is in order then maybe you'll have a chance.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 16:48

I was wondering why you took so long to defend yourself, but now I know why.

I'm sure you've had this planned out from the beginning. Why would the mafia try to kill you twice in a row if you didn't die the first time? That would be dumb and they'de know that you had some special role that couldn't be killed.

Your contradicting yourself GH. If I attacked you during the second round then how is it possible that I attacked you again in the third? Your evidence has many holes in it. I guess because you weren't ready to false reveal this early. Come back when everything from your reveal is in order then maybe you'll have a chance.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

You attempted to kill me in the SECOND round, and then again in the FOURTH round.

4-2=2

Dear god, Disco must be killing himself right now. He picked a mafioso that repeatedly goes after the same person even without little success (ever heard of a doctor, buddy?) and can't even do math.

Oh, and by the way, Kommodus, how do we know that you're not just fudging that list? It would be mighty easy to just pretend that someone is guilty, especially if you consider someone a threat.

Sir Moody

01-13-2007, 16:53

Kung fu master? while sasaki has been known to make strange roles up in the past i think that one is way too out there and it doesnt disprove the other mounting facts - General H is also a fine choice for a mafia henchman since he is arguably the most experianced player here

Vote General Hankerchief

time will tell but im as sure as i can be hes a mafia

Csargo

01-13-2007, 16:54

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

You attempted to kill me in the SECOND round, and then again in the FOURTH round.

4-2=2

Dear god, Disco must be killing himself right now. He picked a mafioso that repeatedly goes after the same person even without little success (ever heard of a doctor, buddy?) and can't even do math.

Oh, and by the way, Kommodus, how do we know that you're not just fudging that list? It would be mighty easy to just pretend that someone is guilty, especially if you consider someone a threat.

I know there is no doctor in this game. My bad with the math I didn't go back and count the rounds. Though there's one flaw in everything in that PM. Disco is the one that writes and sends in the PMs to Sasaki.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 16:57

Disco is the one that writes and sends in the PMs.

You seem sure of yourself with that evidence, don't you? I know why! Because you suggest to Disco who a good target would be! You probably think I got protected by a doctor or you got blocked by a Thief, decided to take a round off, and then persuade Disco to try your luck again!

Csargo

01-13-2007, 16:59

You seem sure of yourself with that evidence, don't you? I know why! Because you suggest to Disco who a good target would be! You probably think I got protected by a doctor or you got blocked by a Thief, decided to take a round off, and then persuade Disco to try your luck again!

Your wrong with that one if I couldn't kill you the first time I wouldn't go after you again. Also look back at that last post I edited some of it.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 17:04

Your wrong with that one if I couldn't kill you the first time I wouldn't go after you again.

Well, we don't know that, do we? That's just the thing with saying "no, I would have done it this way" AFTER it happens. It's a bit late, isn't it?

Also:

I know there is no doctor in this game.

There will also be other roles besides those listed in this post.

How can you possibly be sure? MAFIOSO.

Sir Boo

01-13-2007, 17:06

Csargo

01-13-2007, 17:08

Well, we don't know that, do we? That's just the thing with saying "no, I would have done it this way" AFTER it happens. It's a bit late, isn't it?

Also:

How can you possibly be sure? MAFIOSO.

No everyone else doesn't know except for me, you and your mafioso buddies.I can't. It would just seem so stupid if Sasaki did something like that.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 17:15

The evidence seems to be piling up against both Ichigo and GH. At the moment it seems to be one word against another so I propose we take action against both players. I say that this round we lynch GH and next round we lynch Ichigo. Its the only way we can be sure that we have got a Mafia at the present time.

Ichigo?

How do you know there is know doctor in the game?

And how do you know that Disco sends in the pms?

Just something that I doubt.

If you look at the last two kills. The orange haired and orange bearded person is an obvious referral to himself. I just put two and two together.

Killing me would be a bad thing for the town since I have an ability that will surely help the town.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 17:22

Killing me would be a bad thing for the town since I have an ability that will surely help the town.

"Well, what's the ability?"

"I can't tell you."

"Why not?"

"Because it would be bad for the town if I told you."

"Then why should we believe you?"

"Because I have an ability to help the town."

:laugh4: At least I told everyone my ability. What's the matter, Ichigo? Can't think of a good role quickly enough?

Csargo

01-13-2007, 17:23

So Kage why aren't you posting? Your usually more active. You hiding something?

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 17:24

Oh, nice dodge. Are you even going to bother answering me now?

EDIT: Waitaminute, Kage is dead! He bought it in the first round! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Kagemusha

01-13-2007, 17:31

Im here reading.Thank you for asking Ichigo. My personal opinion based on the the conversation is to lynch Ichigo now and prepare to lynch GH if plausible.:bow:

Csargo

01-13-2007, 17:32

"Well, what's the ability?"

"I can't tell you."

"Why not?"

"Because it would be bad for the town if I told you."

"Then why should we believe you?"

"Because I have an ability to help the town."

:laugh4: At least I told everyone my ability. What's the matter, Ichigo? Can't think of a good role quickly enough?

Whenever someone is protected and the mafia try to kill them I get a PM telling who was protected and who the mafia member was that tried to kill them.

Forgot about that Kage. Sorry.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 17:37

Whenever someone is protected and the mafia try to kill them I get a PM telling who was protected and who the mafia member was that tried to kill them.

:inquisitive:

Uh-huh.

And tell me, where are the PMs? Apparently, it takes some time to produce them, especially when you have to write them from scratch.

Sir Boo

01-13-2007, 17:43

:inquisitive:

Uh-huh.

And tell me, where are the PMs? Apparently, it takes some time to produce them, especially when you have to write them from scratch.

lol, you should know GH, now guys as i said before LYNCH GH THIS ROUDN THEN ICHIGO NEXT!

Then we are bound to get a mafia...

Csargo

01-13-2007, 17:45

:inquisitive:

Uh-huh.

And tell me, where are the PMs? Apparently, it takes some time to produce them, especially when you have to write them from scratch.

Why copy the PM when I could just take a screenshot of it?

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 17:47

Why copy the PM when I could just take a screenshot of it?

Nice try. Keep writing.

No screenshots to prove role, pm quotes allowed.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-13-2007, 17:57

Shades of Sasaki v Kagemusha!

Vote: Ichigo

Note, I subscribe to Boo's suggestion of a paired offing as the safe ploy, I'd just do it in the other order.

Ichigo:

Your earlier disjointed defense is now augmented by a choppy reveal, done in bits and pieces. This is often a sign of FABRICATION rather than reluctance.

You made a good point about "why would I try twice were I mafia" but again it was choppy -- silly rounds error -- and given the track record of doctors who do not protect one target throughout, not an absolute defense anyway.

General:

Just how in heavens name do you believably fake such chat logs? If you can demo this for me, then the game is over as Ichigo, Xiahou, and Kommodus become rapid lynch bait -- that log is the central piece of voodoo agin you.

Your reveal is smoothly done -- but that would be true of you in either case -- and I do believe Sasaki would put such a role in play. The weakness is Ichigo being named in the aftermath of the 2nd attack. I have trouble buying it.

My gut leans toward Ichigo being "dirty," but the wagon against you is impressive and you haven't demonstrated the problems with the central evidence against you.

For now, Boo's choice -- one pro-town role for one mafia -- seems safest as it more or less guarantees us only one murder per night among other things.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 18:04

Nice try. Keep writing.

hehehe

Like I've said the entire game I have no role.

Dutch_guy

01-13-2007, 18:06

"Well, what's the ability?"

"I can't tell you."

"Why not?"

"Because it would be bad for the town if I told you."

"Then why should we believe you?"

"Because I have an ability to help the town."

:laugh4: At least I told everyone my ability. What's the matter, Ichigo? Can't think of a good role quickly enough?

You know he won't tell, and only a mafioso 'd try and make him. That is, if he has a role of any kind of course.

Oh wait, it seems he did explain the supposed role.

Whenever someone is protected and the mafia try to kill them I get a PM telling who was protected and who the mafia member was that tried to kill them.

:balloon2:

Csargo

01-13-2007, 18:48

Removed.

Kagemusha

01-13-2007, 18:50

I have reconsidered and persuaded to chance my mind.I suggest to vote GH.

Sigurd

01-13-2007, 18:59

You get the mafia of course, Ichigo and Xiahou against me (that screenshot is clearly doctored, did you see the weird area around Quit:Lenin?)

:laugh4:
Well... it seems you got caught there GH.

And let me guess. After I die the mafia are going to go to one kill per round so that the guys who voted for me (even those that did nothing but bandwagon) will pat themselves on the back and go "good job, we got ourselves a bad guy lynched."

nah... they will be forced to do only write one kill since we got you.
And the one kill this round was not because of your made up role.
It will not enter the Hall of Fame...

Let’s say I orchestrated a little trap this night, setting up the mafia to attempt attacking a player. This player was protected by a role which has the ability to protect one player a night.
I see the mafia went straight into this trap by attacking this player.
This puts your reveal in a bad light GH, hence I am certain you’re lying.

And I was there in the chat with Xiahou as you can see in his transcript. I too saw the untimely quit.
It seems you had bad luck GH… I have tried to recreate that quit of yours.. and I was able to only ONCE..
That was when I was logged in via Firefox and had two conversations going with another client of mine.
It seems killing Kage and voting 3rd on a bandwagon is a CURSE.
Also when I asked Disco about the one kill in the chat.. He obviously hadn’t read Sasaki’s post and was quite upset.. Lot’s of swearing and the like.
It seems to me that you are one of Disco’s mafia. If you are then I am inclined to think that he has followed a rather obvious choosing. If the mafia hadn’t killed Don I would have put him on the list of possible mafia along with Kommodus and Seamus.

Kommodus seems too eager to survive. Husar proposed a brilliant move in one of his earlier posts, but was shot down quite abruptly by Kommodus and that sounded desperate in my ears.
Players that are too eager to survive have a role. The only advantage a living townie has over a dead townie is the ability to vote. A townie should have no problem giving his life to the good cause. This good cause is to ensure Mafia failure.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 20:22

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 22:09

Csargo

01-13-2007, 22:12

Just to prove that chatlogs can indeed be doctored.

Here is the exact same screenshot as Xiahou took. Aside from one difference. See if you can spot it.

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/Mafia/graffiti2.jpg

Lynch Ichigo. Then Xiahou.

So desperate your attempt. It still doesn't help the fact that none of your PM's would match any Sasaki would write.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 22:14

So desperate your attempt. It still doesn't help the fact that none of your PM's would match any Sasaki would write.

Now that's speculation. That doesn't match proof. Proof being that chatlogs can easily be doctored.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 22:19

Now that's speculation. That doesn't match proof. Proof being that chatlogs can easily be doctored.

Ah go look back at kills that Sasaki has written as well as any PM's for roles he's given out. He never goes into much detail your PM's don't match his writing style.

Xiahou

01-13-2007, 22:26

You must've put alot of effort into that. Too bad we have witnesses to the chatlog. :yes:

edit: I had wondered if we were making too much of the chat message, but it's quite clear you're mafia now.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2007, 23:05

Ah go look back at kills that Sasaki has written as well as any PM's for roles he's given out. He never goes into much detail your PM's don't match his writing style.

I'm sorry, that argument holds no water. Sasaki can and has written before, he just doesn't do it very often.

Examine his Shimazu 1530 campaign AAR:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=67768

And also, Gotta Have More Mafia. He attempted to write stories for that and it looked pretty good in the first round before he abandoned it.

It had been a long day on the job for discovery1. Driving a bus is a mind numbing job, and towards the end of the of the day he became tired and began to make mistakes. His first mistake was getting to of his routes mixed up. His second mistake was far more serious—he picked up the wrong passenger at the wrong time. It was late at night and the bus was empty. Discovery1 was hailed by a cloaked figure along a stretch of road that had no regular stops. He pulled over anyway. The stranger sat in silence for a while, his brooding manner disturbed disco. He began attempting to make small talk. Halfway through his chatter about the weather the stranger stood up. Disco’s eyes were on the road and he did not notice as the man pulled a hammer out from beneath his cloak. The man said in a low voice: “You are the beginning. Be glad of that honor". Disco turned to look at him…

Divinus Arma was sleeping peacefully. Suddenly he was wakened by a great racket from the downstairs kitchen. He walked quietly down the stairs, opened the door, and gasped…

Silver Rusher had stopped for food at his favorite restaurant. He had enjoyed his meal, but would have enjoyed it more had it not been for the feeling that the owner was watching him. His waitress seemed nervous somehow, something he couldn’t quite put his finger on. He left the restaurant and began his walk back to his home, thoughts of his loved one ever present in his mind. It was strange how the streetlights seemed to blur together into one…

Tiberius was entertaining some of his friends in his large mansion. While they partied on, a man in a trench coat scaled the wall of the garden. Sneaking through the bushes until he reached the edge of a clearing the man assembled his sniper rifle and took aim through the brightly lit window at the back of tiberius’s head…

Now, compare that to the types of kills that Sigurd sent in as Chinese Godfather:

I have contacted my henchman with a list of possible kills. He has as of yet not made a reply...

I will therefore have to make that call without advice.
Target: Ice
Killer: Wonderland
Method: Kung Fu technique that breaks neck. The target never knew what happened.

Actually, the only kill that really had meat on it was mine, but it was still nothing compared to what Sasaki wrote for the first round.

You're out of arguments, dude.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 23:10

I'm sorry, that argument holds no water. Sasaki can and has written before, he just doesn't do it very often.

Examine his Shimazu 1530 campaign AAR:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=67768

And also, Gotta Have More Mafia. He attempted to write stories for that and it looked pretty good in the first round before he abandoned it.

Now, compare that to the types of kills that Sigurd sent in as Chinese Godfather:

Actually, the only kill that really had meat on it was mine, but it was still nothing compared to what Sasaki wrote for the first round.

You're out of arguments, dude.

Not really. Just because he did doesn't mean he does it anymore.

Csargo

01-13-2007, 23:17

I'm sorry, that argument holds no water. Sasaki can and has written before, he just doesn't do it very often.

Examine his Shimazu 1530 campaign AAR:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=67768

And also, Gotta Have More Mafia. He attempted to write stories for that and it looked pretty good in the first round before he abandoned it.

Now, compare that to the types of kills that Sigurd sent in as Chinese Godfather:

Actually, the only kill that really had meat on it was mine, but it was still nothing compared to what Sasaki wrote for the first round.

You're out of arguments, dude.

Evidence:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1288567&postcount=44

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1290657&postcount=108

That's his most recent game besides this one. If he doesn't put that much effort into expanding his kills then why would he do it to a PM to just one person. Highly unlikely.

Proletariat

01-13-2007, 23:30

Just got caught up after a few busy days. Surprised GH was undone in such a bizarre way, but that chat screen shot and his reaction to it is damning.

Vote:GH

Csargo

01-13-2007, 23:34

Just got caught up after a few busy days. Surprised GH was undone in such a bizarre way, but that chat screen shot and his reaction to it is damning.

Vote:GH

Long time no see Prole.

Sir Boo

01-14-2007, 01:08

I bellieve it is obvious who the mafia is now, GH has dug himself into a bigger and bigger hole, before i bellieved we would have to lynch them both but now the evidence against GH is simply endless... We must ask a few simple questions?

Why is GH so determined to incriminate Ichigo?

Why does GH protest to the length that his argument with Ichigo spanned more than one page?

Why diddnt he reveal sooner if he could only be killed at night? - It would have given the townies an unkillable INOCENT person which is a big advantage however the role is obvously fake...

GeneralHankerchief

01-14-2007, 01:24

Why is GH so determined to incriminate Ichigo?

Because Sasaki told me he was mafia.

Why does GH protest to the length that his argument with Ichigo spanned more than one page?

Because I don't want to be lynched.

Why diddnt he reveal sooner if he could only be killed at night?

Because I didn't want the mafia to try to get me lynched. Better they just kept trying to kill me.

Sigurd

01-14-2007, 02:42

discovery1

01-14-2007, 02:46

SIGURD! WHAT DOES YOUR WIFE SAY ABOUT YoU POSTING WHILE OUT!?

Ituralde

01-14-2007, 03:13

A lot has been happening and unfortunately no new graffiti, rendering my question somewhat useless. I'm still glad I did it though. It was my first role and it really makes you itchy the first time you have one. I really was afraid of being lynched and then biting my own ass, because I didn't use my ability.

Mhm... I'm gonna go with GH this round. Maybe Ichigo next, although I have some information that makes him an unlikely Mafia.

Vote: General Hankerchief

Husar

01-14-2007, 05:30

(on pda)
@GH: hahahahahahaha

You are so full of it.

Alright playes, take this from an confirmed innocent player:
I was there in the chat with Xiahou. I am the spammer in that screenshot called Dragonslayer.
I too called out the obvious in that chat wheb GH got an untimely quit. he obviously had a private conversation going with Lenin who was Disco.
why deny it GH? you could just given an explanation of why you had that conversation.
now you pull the 'I never had that conversation, it must be doctored' card.
Damned if we got one of the mafia this round.

Sigurd
While I am inclined to believe you there are two things that make me wonder:
1. You are quite keen on mentioning your confirmed innocence IMO, makes me wonder whether you had some role to help the mafia and got killed nonetheless(maybe an evil plan to lead the town astray, mafia can't kill mafia but maybe they can kill the corrupt politician or so?)?

2. GH has proven that screenshots can be edited, especially text on a mono-coloured background, if he hadn't done it, I'd have tried it myself.
Besides that, I have never seen such quit messages where the name of someone else is shown, makes me very sceptical.

In the hope to show up in Seamus' statistics again and maybe even in Kommodus' calculation, I am going to

Vote: Abstain

I want something that makes sense to me to base my vote on, almost all the Evidence" I have seen here, no matter by which side, could just as well be created.:wall:

Sasaki Kojiro

01-14-2007, 05:33

I have received a request to extend voting. Voting temporarily extended, I'll give a more concrete figure once I have some more information.

Husar

01-14-2007, 06:37

After going through all the evidence again, closely examining the individual posting styles and comparing them to posts dating back all the way to 1846 I came to the following conclusion based on our current chat session:

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: discovery1

discovery1

01-14-2007, 08:15

Excellent choice Husar.

Vote:Discovery1

In other news:
Sigurd using the 'OMG YOU ARE DEFENDING YOURSELF JUST LIKE A MAFIA WOULD' line of reasoning in the chat:

https://img170.imageshack.us/img170/553/defendingyourselflikeammu4.jpg

Damn this looks bad. Maybe I will post a better one latter. In any case, trust no one. Even your greatest champions, even in death, may in truth want to only save you so they can sell you into slavery.

Edit: How do I post spoilers?

spoilers added--Sasaki

Csargo

01-14-2007, 08:18

discovery1

01-14-2007, 08:24

In the background you can see Hankerchief64 in the recent buddies. I love how your bringing your own mafioso down.

You said the EXACT same thing in the chat Csar. You gotta work on your originality.

Csargo

01-14-2007, 08:25

You said the EXACT same thing in the chat Csar. You gotta work on your originality.

I copy and pasted it into the chat.

discovery1

01-14-2007, 08:44

I copy and pasted it into the chat.

Weak dude weak.

Anyway.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_%28game%29#Variations

Cult Leaders can recruit at night instead of kill; therefore they act as an independent faction from both the Innocents and Mafia, usually with the ability to talk at night.

So Sasaki, did you include a cult?

Sasaki Kojiro

01-14-2007, 09:15

So Sasaki, did you include a cult?

I can't say.

discovery1

01-14-2007, 10:04

I can't say.

You don't say.
Thanks for the spoilers.

Husar

01-14-2007, 18:08

In the background you can see Hankerchief64 in the recent buddies. I love how your bringing your own mafioso down.
Do you think disco would post a screenshot here that gave away his mafioso?
This way he could subtly make us lynch GH especially because you directly jump on it. IMO this gives GH a bit more credibility, he could just chat with disco for another reason, mafia games are not the sole thing in life people can chat about.

But since I can't really know and there is no real evidence either way, my vote stays.

Csargo

01-14-2007, 18:17

Do you think disco would post a screenshot here that gave away his mafioso?
This way he could subtly make us lynch GH especially because you directly jump on it. IMO this gives GH a bit more credibility, he could just chat with disco for another reason, mafia games are not the sole thing in life people can chat about.

But since I can't really know and there is no real evidence either way, my vote stays.

He said there was no reason to hide it anymore. GH was going to die anyways so it didn't matter. But unlike other people I don't take screenshots of chat logs because I don't think it is something that should be done.

discovery1

01-14-2007, 18:29

He said there was no reason to hide it anymore. GH was going to die anyways so it didn't matter. But unlike other people I don't take screenshots of chat logs because I don't think it is something that should be done.

And who else was there? How do they, or rsther Husar, know you aren't lying in the persuit of some other agenda?

Csargo

01-14-2007, 18:30

And who else was there? How do they, or rsther Husar, know you aren't lying in the persuit of some other agenda?

There was no need for you to reply unless I was telling the truth and you had to disprove it.

discovery1

01-14-2007, 18:34

ho hum.

Husar

01-14-2007, 19:16

There was no need for you to reply unless I was telling the truth and you had to disprove it.
Or your little dispute is staged to make you look innocent, I'm with disco here.~;)

Csargo

01-14-2007, 19:17

Or your little dispute is staged to make you look innocent, I'm with disco here.~;)

Alright.

Sigurd

01-14-2007, 23:03

So...
What is exactly going on here?
We are on serious overtime here... GH is clearly leading the tally...
There have been people lynched in previous games with far fewer votes.

Sasaki Kojiro

01-14-2007, 23:17

So...
What is exactly going on here?
We are on serious overtime here... GH is clearly leading the tally...
There have been people lynched in previous games with far fewer votes.

Someone requested an extension. For some reason. It's the weekend anyway.

Lynch will occur at midnight.

GeneralHankerchief

01-14-2007, 23:21

So...
What is exactly going on here?
We are on serious overtime here... GH is clearly leading the tally...
There have been people lynched in previous games with far fewer votes.

Oh, I know why...

-removed-

Csargo

01-14-2007, 23:36

Oh, I know why...

-removed-

What did you remove GH?

Csargo

01-14-2007, 23:51

Seems GH is trying to blackmail someone.

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2007, 02:41

Okay, there is a third party in this game. And Reenk Roink, including a number of others, in on it.

I got this description from another forum:

Cult: The cult is done in a wide variety of ways, but in essence, the cult picks a player (the most common version is either they can only get basic town, or have only a % to convert) each night and tries to convert them. The Cult wins if they are more than 50% of the town. Cultists usually can talk to each other at night.

There is also a town aligned type of cult. It works like an expanding mason group. Each night, a cultist is sent out to attempt to recruit a player into the cult. For town aligned cults, this usually only succeeds on certain stipulations, even if the player is town. (For example, no investigative or vigilantes could be recruited.) If a culting fails, the player sent to recruit usually dies.

There are several, several variations on cults.

Now, obviously this is a variation on what was described, but the PM I received last night was most definitely a recruiting one:

I just want to tell you, I can help you. I got Sigurd around my finger this game (he an I have been PM'ing and I we got Csar off the hook).

I can also convince 2-3 players at least, and 4-5 hopefully to swing their votes.

However, I will be calling in a favor at a later date. No need to ask about it now...

Think on it...

Now, consider that, combined with the fact that Sasaki extended voting and is being rather mysterious about it, along with the next PM I received from him (I answered no):

Well the, that request to extend voting was useless... :annoyed:

Now, to those townies who aren't in Reenk's little cult:

Don't join.

We should keep this game to what it is: Town vs. mafia. Now, I know the mafia has won this round with my impending execution, but it will be difficult enough without the addition of a third party.

To those of you who say I'm lying, consider this: Do you wonder how Ichigo survived the last round? Reenk or someone else must've gotten to him. I read where the cult can recruit from mafia or town, so it doesn't matter. So, then, you wonder, who engineered and participated in the emancipation of Ichigo?

-Reenk Roink
-Sigurd Fafnesbane
-Ichigo
-Sir Boo
-Sir Moody
-Ituralde
-(possibly) AggonyDuck
-(possibly) Husar

I realize that this is for the most part, speculation and that I could be fantastically wrong (which I probably am), but perhaps that if the cult gets enough members they could resurrect the leader of the cult (Sigurd? Reenk?) and gain a victory.

Town, mafia, we can work together on this. Disco, I urge you to kill the active members. Town, we can still go after the mafia and in the meantime try to root out the cultists via discussion. And remember, YOU MUST RESIST.

Still vote for Ichigo, but keep in mind that there is a serious unknown factor in this game. I will do my best to find out more about this, but several members assure me I am way off in what I just posted. Oh well.

EDIT: Or maybe their goal is something stupid like get everyone to vote "No lynch" a certain amount of times. I don't know.

Ignoramus

01-15-2007, 02:58

Unvote: GH
Vote: Ichigo

I believe GH.

Reenk Roink

01-15-2007, 03:22

"I am changing the bargain. Either sway those people in my favor or I out you and your entire operation. And I know more than you think."

"I am changing the bargain. Either sway those people in my favor or I out you and your entire operation. And I know more than you think."

-GeneralHankerchief

Even if I am with this cult (???), examine Hankmeister's tone. Reflect on what he is saying...

I can post more too... I have been in correspondence with many members... :wink:

Attacking Sigurd was just stupid though, he is a confirmed innocent... :dizzy:

G-Hanky, you don't know what game I am playing (I am playing a game)... It's amusing to see you think you are correct though... :laugh:

Sigurd

01-15-2007, 03:32

Well... If your 'theory' is true GH. Why not join the winning team?
But alas, both me and Reenk are dead and hence would not be able to use any of our supposed role powers.
That wouldn't be fair.

Hence we should wonder why you are so desperate to stay alive?
First you claim a made up role, then you resort to this?

Damn you sound desperate m8...
The truth is... we don't know why Disc's nick showed up in your quit.
I have tried to recreate it but haven't been able to.
I bet Xahou posted that screenshot as a ruse.. to see how you would respond. And you DID respond.
What a response... You are wiggling around as a trout on land and I suspect you are a mafioso.
It is the classic response when a mafioso is caught.

nah... lynch GH now and there will be only one kill pr night for the rest of this game.

Reenk Roink

01-15-2007, 03:40

Now, obviously this is a variation on what was described, but the PM I received last night was most definitely a recruiting one:

Wait a minute.

Now, I just read your post more carefully, and saw this little doozy. You received my offer last night, yes. I also PM'd Sasaki last night.

However, I made both those PM's as a dead person.

How could I use my "role" after I had been killed?

You gotta think more in your story telling Hanky; when I manipulate people, I am very careful to avoid little contradictions like this... :wink:

Sasaki Kojiro

01-15-2007, 06:23

GeneralHankerchief has been lynched.

***

Killed (6):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Warluster
Masy
Don Corleone

Lynched(2):
Reenk Roink
GeneralHankerchief

Suicide(1):
Divine Wind

Alive: (18):

discovery1
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Seamus Fermanagh
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Ichigo

pm's please.

Husar

01-15-2007, 14:47

Done.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-15-2007, 15:26

Sigurd

01-15-2007, 15:26

Done.
As in 'I sent a PM to Sasaki' done?

Sigurd

01-15-2007, 15:44

Ichi:

Is someone trying to frame you?

People who have voted for your lynching are starting to turn up...well...a little bit dead.

Of the 6 who voted for your demise in Round #2, 3 are looking at the boring side of the Geraniums -- only one of those (Herr Reenk) by the "will of the people."

Quite a few of the votes to take him out were based on his "dis-courtesy" in posting methedology, not from any distinct sense of his being mafiosi.

....Just wonderin'

As I see it ... it's a tie.
Of the 7 voting for RR 2 is dead - Masy and GH - GH "by the will of the people".
Of the 6 voting for Ichigo (Csar) 2 is dead - Don C and Reenk - Reenk "by the will of the people".

Husar

01-15-2007, 16:32

As in 'I sent a PM to Sasaki' done?
You can ask Sasaki whether he received one from me.:2thumbsup:

Al Khalifah

01-15-2007, 16:38

Allohah. Apologies for innactivity since Thursday. I've been enjoying the delights of Budapest. Been taking a while to read back through everything I've seen.

I have to say, I'm starting to lose my suspicision of Csar/Ichigo lately. His recent behaviour just doesn't seem consistent with that of a mafioso (though this may just be a bluff) and his knowledge of the rules has seemed occasionally poor - mafia tend to be more clued up (though this may just be a bluff).

I'm worried by the number of regular posters who are being killed off. At this rate, we could know who the mafia were and still not be able to lynch them because of insufficient voters to swing the tide against them.

Dutch_guy

01-15-2007, 17:46

Well, with General gone we've rid ourselves of one mafioso.

Good, let's see what happens tonight.

:balloon2:

AggonyDuck

01-15-2007, 17:48

Yup, will be an interesting round. I wonder if we will see a return of those clues or not.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-15-2007, 18:54

As I see it ... it's a tie.
Of the 7 voting for RR 2 is dead - Masy and GH - GH "by the will of the people".
Of the 6 voting for Ichigo (Csar) 2 is dead - Don C and Reenk - Reenk "by the will of the people".

Hmm...my record of things and yours don't jibe.

Of the 7 voting for the Reenkster's demise:

Al-Kal, Hanky, Jimbo, Prole, Seamus, Sir Boo, & X-man,

only Hanky has come up a cropper -- "by the will of the people." None of these folk have been killeded.

In contrast, Ichi-ban's detractors have fared worse:

Doc, Don Hagen [murdered], Iggy, Masy [murdered], Reenk [lynched], & Ultra. Oh, and Sigurd voted for him despite his murder the preceding night.

Ultra's been flip-flopping between Ichi and Hanky the whole game with his vote, but Doc has voted for himself and Ichi (twice) and Iggy has voted for him thrice (all 3 active votes he's made).

Were I either of them, I would not rest quietly this night.

Is Ichi being framed? :inquisitive:

Is Ichi mafia? :inquisitive:

Is Ichi the nexus of a lot of bad luck? :yes:

Maybe it's this supposed cult's job to kill anyone who has voted for Ichigo, who has been annointed as the next savior for his edgy sense of couture. :cheesy:

Edit: Upon rechecking, my records were incorrect. Masy voted to lynch Reenk that round, so there were eight Reenk voters. This makes it one murder and one lynch from each set. Apologies.

Al Khalifah

01-15-2007, 19:58

I didn't vote for RR to be lynched. I voted for Csar/Ichigo.

JimBob

01-15-2007, 20:02

Sorry for disappearing. This past week I got ambushed by real life. Now I'll be catching up on the past five pages. :book:

Seamus Fermanagh

01-15-2007, 20:36

I didn't vote for RR to be lynched. I voted for Csar/Ichigo.

Must have reversed you and Masy in my records. Sorry.

discovery1

01-15-2007, 20:44

Reenk, it matters not that you are dead. You still can talk and send pms, and that is all that is needed to be a cult leader. And the same goes for you Sigurd.

Csargo

01-15-2007, 21:02

Does no one else find it odd that Disco first threw out the idea of there being a cult, then GH jumped on that and went with it? I'm not saying there's not a cult, but didn't we just lynch GH because we thought he was a mafioso? Your all falling into their trap, but me I don't believe a word of it.

Al Khalifah

01-15-2007, 21:32

A cult sounds like too much of a significant addition to just be wildly added from nowhere to the game. It reeks of unfairness. I'm not saying we should discount the possibility, but I'd definately not base any decisions on it until we know something more concrete.

Csargo

01-15-2007, 21:37

Okay, there is a third party in this game. And Reenk Roink, including a number of others, in on it.

I got this description from another forum:

Now, obviously this is a variation on what was described, but the PM I received last night was most definitely a recruiting one:

Now, consider that, combined with the fact that Sasaki extended voting and is being rather mysterious about it, along with the next PM I received from him (I answered no):

Now, to those townies who aren't in Reenk's little cult:

Don't join.

We should keep this game to what it is: Town vs. mafia. Now, I know the mafia has won this round with my impending execution, but it will be difficult enough without the addition of a third party.

To those of you who say I'm lying, consider this: Do you wonder how Ichigo survived the last round? Reenk or someone else must've gotten to him. I read where the cult can recruit from mafia or town, so it doesn't matter. So, then, you wonder, who engineered and participated in the emancipation of Ichigo?

-Reenk Roink
-Sigurd Fafnesbane
-Ichigo
-Sir Boo
-Sir Moody
-Ituralde
-(possibly) AggonyDuck
-(possibly) Husar

I realize that this is for the most part, speculation and that I could be fantastically wrong (which I probably am), but perhaps that if the cult gets enough members they could resurrect the leader of the cult (Sigurd? Reenk?) and gain a victory.

Town, mafia, we can work together on this. Disco, I urge you to kill the active members. Town, we can still go after the mafia and in the meantime try to root out the cultists via discussion. And remember, YOU MUST RESIST.

Still vote for Ichigo, but keep in mind that there is a serious unknown factor in this game. I will do my best to find out more about this, but several members assure me I am way off in what I just posted. Oh well.

EDIT: Or maybe their goal is something stupid like get everyone to vote "No lynch" a certain amount of times. I don't know.

Alright so what I'm not getting is why we(the people GH thinks are cultists:dizzy2:) killed one of our own to save me? Especially one that you think is one of the leaders.

Why would we need to resurrect the leader to win? It says in your quote that we need fifty percent to win the game.

So were supposed to believe the people you've put up there are Cultists and go after them instead of the mafia members? Were supposed to go on your speculations when we the town just lynched you because we thought you were a mafioso. Makes a lot of sense GH.

The people can kill me if they like I have no problem, but don't expect me to go down with out a fight.

Edit:Also where did you get those people from? You just picked the ones who voted for Reenk I guess.

discovery1

01-15-2007, 23:09

Sasaki! Get Up Me Kills!!! Pleeaasseee!!!!!

Sasaki Kojiro

01-15-2007, 23:36

Patience is a virtue https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6489/emoteng101gi6.gif

discovery1

01-15-2007, 23:39

Patience is a virtue https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6489/emoteng101gi6.gif

NOOO!!!!!!!!
Ooooo., novel smilie.

Csargo

01-15-2007, 23:40

Patience is a virtue https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6489/emoteng101gi6.gif<<<what is that?

^^^^^^
Look up.

Sasaki Kojiro

01-15-2007, 23:44

^^^^^^
Look up.

That, my fine feathered friend, is what we call an emoticon.

Csargo

01-15-2007, 23:46

That, my fine feathered friend, is what we call an emoticon.

I'm not a bird. And I'm pretty sure that thing is on crack. Will the kills be up at midnight?

discovery1

01-15-2007, 23:46

I still want my kills up. I put so much effort into them.

Sasaki Kojiro

01-15-2007, 23:48

I'm not a bird. And I'm pretty sure that thing is on crack. Will the kills be up at midnight?

Midnight as always, my flighty singer of dulcet woodland ballads.

Csargo

01-15-2007, 23:50

Midnight as always, my flighty singer of dulcet woodland ballads.

Weird. I sing naked when I'm in the woods. Hopefully no one sees me.:sweatdrop:

discovery1

01-15-2007, 23:57

Weird. I sing naked when I'm in the woods. Hopefully no one sees me.:sweatdrop:

I will work that into your kill then.

discovery1

01-16-2007, 01:14

So Sasaki, do you mean midnight central time or midnight on the board clock?

Sasaki Kojiro

01-16-2007, 01:58

I have the board set to eastern. 4 hours.

discovery1

01-16-2007, 02:02

I have the board set to eastern. 4 hours.

Don't you want to do it now? All you have to do is copy and paste.

Edit:
Any minute now.....

Sasaki Kojiro

01-16-2007, 06:00

The young man with the blond hair paces back and forth across the work shop. He had suffered many setbacks as of late, some in part thanks to his own blundering. But tonight he would strike back were he thought it would hurt the most. Or so he hoped. If only Nod would get back with the target.....

The youth hears a car pull up and rushes to the moniters. It's Winkie along with the target. Splendid. He opens in the door and watches as Nod drags in the unconcious figure of Sir Boo. He helps Winkie secure Boo on a reinforced table. he hands Winkie his bonus before proceeding to revive Boo.

Wake up Boo wake up. You have done a lot to cause us problems as of late. But now it ends. Pity we couldn't be sure though. Of course, if we are right then you may well be a fall guy but if your confederate was telling the truth which I think he was then you aren't. And now at last your trouble will be at an end and we will be free to dance and celebrate and slaughter and kill and maim and kill and kill. But first, I'm going to have my fun. The youth produces a hammer.

Now if I am wrong then I am about to make a damn fool of myself, but it will still be an absolute blast. I almost wish I could lay you low in single combat, but my better judgement keeps me from doing that. And now on with the show.

The youth raises the hammer high above his head and brings it down on Boo's hand. He does so again and again until the hand is a bloody pulp. He does the same to his other hand , and his feet, and his limbs. He even castrates Boo. After he has finished with the now barely alive Boo, he hands Winkie the hammer.

You can finish him. And when you are done, remover his heart will you? There is a small circular saw in that tool chest, third from the top. Place it in the desiccator outside my office will you? I do believe a sacrifice is in order....

The next morning Boo's badly mutilated body was found outside the courthouse.

***

On the wall outside the courthouse the townspeople find the following graffiti:

''A job well done fellow villagers, but we're not there yet. Keep the discussions going, and feel free to call the following numbers: 0800 - 5878163875338 and 0800 - 46635825''

***

Killed (7):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Warluster
Masy
Don Corleone
Sir Boo

Lynched(2):
Reenk Roink
GeneralHankerchief

Suicide(1):
Divine Wind

Alive: (17):

discovery1
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Seamus Fermanagh
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Ichigo

Begin Voting

Sasaki Kojiro

01-16-2007, 06:02

How do you like THEM timings?!

discovery1

01-16-2007, 07:02

It could have come earlier ;(

Sigurd

01-16-2007, 12:14

The Masons have left a message telling us who the next Mafioso is.
This will be an easy game for the townies.

Vote: Kommodus people.. (see.. no bold text and hence not an attempted vote)

Csargo

01-16-2007, 14:25

Vote:Kommodus

discovery1

01-16-2007, 16:47

The Masons have left a message telling us who the next Mafioso is.
This will be an easy game for the townies.

Vote: Kommodus people.. (see.. no bold text and hence not an attempted vote)

Really now.

Look to the numbers, and something you pay a monthly bill for.

Husar

01-16-2007, 17:35

It's not like I didn't suspect that before.
Vote: Kommodus

discovery1

01-16-2007, 17:41

Has anyone actually bothered to decode the message? Aside from myself of course.....

The second one says 'goodluck'
The first starts with 'just' ends with 'left'

Al Khalifah

01-16-2007, 17:47

Vote: Kommodus

Dutch_guy

01-16-2007, 18:23

Vote: Kommodus

why ?

:balloon2:

Kommodus

01-16-2007, 18:24

Oh, what the crap. :wall:

The Masons have left a message telling us who the next Mafioso is.
This will be an easy game for the townies.

Vote: Kommodus people.. (see.. no bold text and hence not an attempted vote)

Sigurd, you are such a liar. Yes, I figured out the mason's code a while ago. Neither of those numbers indicate me in any way. I was hoping the mafia hadn't figured it out yet, but obviously they have, as evidenced by Sir Boo's death and discovery1's comments. So I guess there's no harm in saying this: it's a phone number cipher, people.

The question is, why are you so keen on getting me lynched that you'll lie to do it? Did you have some kind of pro-mafia role, and they accidentally killed you? :inquisitive:

Anyway, since I'm obviously going down this round, what the heck. Sigurd, I was more than willing to give my life for a good cause. I just hoped it would be under slightly, er, different circumstances.

Hello Kommodus,

You have been selected as the explosives expert. You win with the town. It works like this: if you are attacked at night, there is an equal chance (1/3) of each of the following outcomes: your attacker is killed, you are killed, or both of you are killed. You may quote this pm but not take screenshots of what am I saying you can’t reveal your role after death hahaha whoops stream of consciousness wheeeeee. wheee.

Have fun.

Sasaki Kojiro

So there ya have it. I was hoping the mafia would try to kill me, but obviously they agree with me that I'm much easier to simply get lynched. Seems to be what happens when your name starts with a K and ends with an S, I suppose. :sweatdrop:

P.S. Hey disco, thanks for the defense. :laugh4:

Sigurd

01-16-2007, 18:28

why ?

:balloon2:
Well isn't it obvious?
The message clearly spells Kommodus in BIG letters.
And who comes to his rescue? Oh.. yea, the Godfather himself. Claiming to know the code there Disc? ... why do you try to mislead us with your made up solution?
Nah... the Masons obviously has investigated Kommodus and found him guilty. The Mafia is getting desperate as we speak. You really shouldn't have killed Kage in the first round.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

UltraWar

01-16-2007, 18:31

Vote: Ichigo

Sigurd

01-16-2007, 18:31

Hello Kommodus,

You have been selected as the explosives expert. You win with the town. It works like this: if you are attacked at night, there is an equal chance (1/3) of each of the following outcomes: your attacker is killed, you are killed, or both of you are killed. You may quote this pm but not take screenshots of what am I saying you can’t reveal your role after death hahaha whoops stream of consciousness wheeeeee. wheee.

Have fun.

Sasaki Kojiro

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Kagemusha

01-16-2007, 18:37

Sigurd is right.Kommodus is the second mafioso. I suggest for people to vote him.:smash:

doc_bean

01-16-2007, 18:49

vote Kommodus

now where did that bandwagon smiley go....

Xiahou

01-16-2007, 19:33

Sigurd is right.Kommodus is the second mafioso. I suggest for people to vote him.:smash:
Kommodus may be the second mafia- but Sigurd is clearly lying about the phone number translation. I just found a website that works out every combination of a phone number, here (http://www.phonespell.org/), and Kommodus is nowhere in it. That doesn't make Kommodus innocent- but it does make Sigurd a liar and I don't like dancing to his tune. :no:

Whatever they're gaming at, Ichigo is most likely part of it. Look back to the round where Csar/Ichigo was almost lynched- who was it that turned the vote to 'no lynch' instead?

vote: Ichigo

Ituralde

01-16-2007, 19:35

So Kommodus is the second mafioso?
Well, I'm completely lost out in this game. I have tried deciphering the phone numbers by typing them with my mobile phone. The only thing useful I got was Warluster how got killed all the ohters I couldn't match with any names.
Maybe my letters are distributed different or something.

Also I'm still not convinced that those messages point to the Mafia. Call for help sounds more like innocents to me. If the Masons knew about a Mafia, why should they bother to put it in code?
Also as I have pointed out earlier the style of the number messages is quite easy to copy by anyone so the graffiti could well be from the Mafia.

Seems like Kommodus will die no matter how I vote so I'm gonna abstain.

Vote: Abstain

discovery1

01-16-2007, 19:40

Somewhere, a young engineering student is frothing at the mouth.

46635825

Take out a phone please.

Note that the letters matching 4: GHI
Lets move on to 6: MNO
Now a word that starts with G,H, or I and is follow by one or both of the other letters.

good, that starts with a 'g' and has two 'o's in a row.

3:DEF

hmm, 'good' fits that nicely.

5:jkl

8:TUV

2:ABC

5:JKL

now pick a word from the letters above that makes sense with 'good'

'luck' fits the bill nicely.
Now if anyone can come up with an alternate interp that makes sense, be my guess.

Sigurd, you and your cultists pals can eat this (http://www.phonespell.org/)

http://www.phonespell.org/

HEAR ME PEOPLE!!

DO NOT LISTEN TO THE CULTISTS!

Kommodus

01-16-2007, 19:40

Sigh...

Oh well. I'm getting kind of tired of this anyway. There hasn't been a game since Mafia IV in which I haven't aroused suspicion/been lynched early on. He's a smart guy, they say, and would obviously make a formidable mafioso.

Great point, that. Good mafia detection skills certainly translate directly into good mafia skills. :dizzy2:

As Husar correctly pointed out, I make a great lynch candidate anyway, whether I'm guilty or innocent. So what, I wonder, is the point of playing? I can figure out the identity of the mafia whether or not my name's in the list.

:help:

Sigurd and discovery1, congratulations. Disco, you got your revenge. Sigurd, I can't wait to see what your role actually is.

For the record:

The message clearly spells Kommodus in BIG letters.

Not sure what you mean by this. The first message appears to be "just1ofusleft" while the second is "goodluck."

Anyway,

Vote: Kommodus

G'night, everybody! :2thumbsup:

Dutch_guy

01-16-2007, 20:31

Wow, so many simply jumped on the wagon. You're a persuasive guy, Sigurd...

Myself, I don't quite believe Kommodus' a mafioso, but I am keeping my eyes out on those bandwagoners, now that's suspicious in my book at least.

Vote:abstain.

:balloon2:

JimBob

01-16-2007, 20:47

Kommodus and Csar/Ichigo are both innocent.

Hello, in this game you are little timmy. Each night you choose one other player and send them and send them two slips of paper (one red and one blue) with two different names on them. You may put your own name on the paper if you wish. The will be informed that they have received your slips. If they have a night action they are only allowed to carry it out on one of those two people. If they don't have a night action they will just be confused.

Obviously I will need your pm before everyone else's, so I would ask that you send me yours at the beginning of every day just after the kills have been announced. Please respond to this asap.

Sasaki

My first two targets were Csar and Kommodus. Both were sent a random name and disco's name. Neither of the random people were killed. They are not mafia.

Husar

01-16-2007, 20:50

Not sure what you mean by this. The first message appears to be "just1ofusleft" while the second is "goodluck."
Very interesting, have to check this again, but until then it's

Unvote: Kommodus
Vote: Abstain

AggonyDuck

01-16-2007, 20:54

Kommodus and Csar/Ichigo are both innocent.

My first two targets were Csar and Kommodus. Both were sent a random name and disco's name. Neither of the random people were killed. They are not mafia.

Does the night action limitation apply to all three mafiosi or just the one you sent a message to? There have been several one kill rounds, which mean the mafia might have just avoided making a kill on those rounds. But for now I'll trust your word. I'm going to try and get some more sense of this confused mess before voting.

Csargo

01-16-2007, 20:58

Unvote:Kommodus
Vote:Abstain

You have received two slips of paper, one red and one blue.

The red slip reads: "discovery1"
The blue slip reads: "********"

Sasaki

Removed name of someone I believe is innocent.

Am I able to post a screenshot of the PM you sent me? I assume I am since you didn't give me a role and just sent the PM outta the blue.

No screenshots of pm's.

You should have put that in the rules.

I said no screenshots to prove your role. Xiahou asked me before posting that screenshot, and I explained why it was diffferent from posting a screenshot of a pm.

Sasaki

I don't have a role that I know of and if I do it's not fair that I don't know what it is. Therefore I have a screenshot of a PM that has nothing to do with a role unless you tell me I have a role and what it is.

PM exchange between Me and Sasaki

Dutch_guy

01-16-2007, 21:29

Kommodus and Csar/Ichigo are both innocent.

My first two targets were Csar and Kommodus. Both were sent a random name and disco's name. Neither of the random people were killed. They are not mafia.

I might have missed the obvious, but how do we know ? How do we know you might not have accidentally sent these to a mafioso ?

:balloon2:

Csargo

01-16-2007, 21:31

I might have missed the obvious, but how do we know ? How do we know you might not have accidentally sent these to a mafioso ?

:balloon2:

It said we would have had to kill one of them since Disco can't be killed then we would have to kill the other person on the slip.

Vote:UltraWar

He too obsessed with seeing me die.

Dutch_guy

01-16-2007, 21:36

It said we would have had to kill one of them since Disco can't be killed then we would have to kill the other person on the slip.

Vote:UltraWar

He too obsessed with seeing me die.

That doesn't make sense, especially the bolded part. That would mean we'd have to kill you and Kommodus since we're not able to kill Disco...

:balloon2:

Csargo

01-16-2007, 21:40

Hello, in this game you are little timmy. Each night you choose one other player and send them and send them two slips of paper (one red and one blue) with two different names on them. You may put your own name on the paper if you wish. The will be informed that they have received your slips. If they have a night action they are only allowed to carry it out on one of those two people. If they don't have a night action they will just be confused.

Obviously I will need your pm before everyone else's, so I would ask that you send me yours at the beginning of every day just after the kills have been announced. Please respond to this asap.

Did you read JimBob's PM?

discovery1

01-16-2007, 22:17

Kommodus may be the second mafia- but Sigurd is clearly lying about the phone number translation. I just found a website that works out every combination of a phone number, here (http://www.phonespell.org/), and Kommodus is nowhere in it. That doesn't make Kommodus innocent- but it does make Sigurd a liar and I don't like dancing to his tune. :no:

Whatever they're gaming at, Ichigo is most likely part of it. Look back to the round where Csar/Ichigo was almost lynched- who was it that turned the vote to 'no lynch' instead?

vote: Ichigo

Clearly Csar is not a mafia. Few here have tried so hard to ferret out my goons. You could say he is taking on the role of Sasaki.

GeneralHankerchief

01-16-2007, 22:20

Sigurd claims I quit while talking to Disco in the chat, with only the word of a mafioso and a fellow cultist (albeit a mafioso one).

LIAR

Sigurd denies existence of a cult even though you can see in plain sight that he can snap his fingers and instantly five people jump on the bandwagon. He also viciously attacks me when I "out" him, as if he's got something to hide.

LIAR

Sigurd starts a ridiculously stupid bandwagon on Kommodus, even though the phone cipher clearly doesn't match. Anybody who voted with him is either a cultist or an idiot.

LIAR

It's obvious that Sigurd wants Kommodus dead, probably because he won't join the cult. Come on, people, fight back.

Sigurd

01-16-2007, 22:29

Alright...

I shall come clean. It was only a ruse to see what would happen.
I wanted to see how Kommodus would respond and if anyone really had gotten the message in the numbers.
Glad to see that the mafia has.
Yes Kommodus is right about the message. It reads what he posted.

Also it is noteworthy that Disco, the head of the mafia, responded in such a fashion.
Why the kneejerk defence of Kommodus?
Did I strike a nerve? Two maifiosi in a row is hard on a mafia leader.
Then Kommodus goes and make a reveal of a role not unlike the one I used in 'Gotta have more mafia' in his first defence post. How suspicious is that?

Now to Jimbob's reveal...
Since you now have claimed this role of yours.. why not tell us what names you put on those notes? There might be players with the power to protect you know. If you post those names and in which round you posted them in.. these protectors might be able to tell us if they protected any of them in that round.
If there was an attempt on them the guy you posted to might just be that mafioso we are looking for.

Kommodus is not in the clear yet... what say you Jimbob?

Warluster

01-16-2007, 22:38

Wait, if the message said
Just 1 of us left
Doesnt that mean that either one of the mafia or masons left?

Ituralde

01-16-2007, 23:38

JimBob

01-17-2007, 00:12

The second two names were Ituralde and Sir Boo. In the first and second rounds respectively. Kommodus received Sir Boo, Csar, Ituralde.

Csargo

01-17-2007, 00:20

The second two names were Ituralde and Sir Boo. In the first and second rounds respectively. Kommodus received Sir Boo, Csar, Ituralde.

So you did say you did that in the second round right? Well here you go.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1385184&postcount=344

This says I attempted to kill GH in the second round. Which is impossible if JimBob made his choice to be me in the second round.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1385249&postcount=350

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1386840&postcount=412

So first I was a mafioso now I'm a cult member. omgwtf I'm innocent ;)

Unvote:UltraWar
Vote:Prole

Where you at Prole? Seems kinda suspicious that you haven't posted in a while.

Sasaki Kojiro

01-17-2007, 02:11

Vote Count

Kommodus 3 (al khalifah,doc_bean,Kommodus)
ichigo 2(ultrawar,Xiahou)
Prole 1(ichigo)
Al Khalifa 1(Ituralde)

abstain(dutch_guy,husar)

Csargo

01-17-2007, 02:13

Vote Count

Kommodus 3 (al khalifah,doc_bean,Kommodus)
ichigo (ultrawar)
Prole(ichigo)
Al Khalifa(Ituralde)

abstain(dutch_guy,husar)

Dang I thought a lot more people voted. I figured I had more votes than Kommodus. Weird

AggonyDuck

01-17-2007, 02:26

I don't think either Kommodus or Ichigo is guilty. In fact I believe everyone is barking at the wrong tree at the moment. Sir Moody is very high up on my suspect list. The spelling mistakes were a perfect obvious frame and thus also the perfect alibi for him. To me he just seems to fit what I view as mafia behaviour. So;

Vote: Sir Moody

Al Khalifah

01-17-2007, 02:36

With the Tide turning once again in favour of Kommodus, accusations may just work again.

Vote: Al Khalifah

I suspect you of being Mafia, because you generally lie low and don't write a lot. Then you jump on the Kommodus bandwagon without giving any reason. You're not very conspicious, but your profile fits that of a lurking Mafioso, so my vote stands, if you don't have anything to say about it.

Fair enough.

My reason for suspecting Kommodus is that I have suspected him for some time and now there is a significant movement against him I feel the time is right to put my vote towards seeing him lynched. I'm not certain he is mafia, but of the players still in the game I think he is most likely to be so. I don't really believe much of this phone number cypher stuff - but other people seem to put faith in it - it's merely adding to my suspision not the cause of it.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-17-2007, 03:09

Vote: Ichigo

I do not yet want Kommodus dead.

In truth, I am most concerned with Dutch_guy's 4 non-votes followed by a ringing "abstain." Lurking at this stage is not apropos....

Csargo

01-17-2007, 03:11

Vote: Ichigo

I do not yet want Kommodus dead.

In truth, I am most concerned with Dutch_guy's 4 non-votes followed by a ringing "abstain." Lurking at this stage is not apropos....

No evidence for my vote. Seems about right.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-17-2007, 03:39

No evidence for my vote. Seems about right.

I have suspected you for much of the game.

My suspicions are actually less than before this.

The vote is purely to engineer a tie between you and Kommo. If he drops his self-vote I'll gladly give Dutch_guy the attention I think he deserves.

Csargo

01-17-2007, 03:41

I have suspected you for much of the game.

My suspicions are actually less than before this.

The vote is purely to engineer a tie between you and Kommo. If he drops his self-vote I'll gladly give Dutch_guy the attention I think he deserves.

It's not a tying vote. It's 3-2 now with voting closing in around three hours.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-17-2007, 03:49

... reference post 483; changes since...

Kommo: Doc, Al-Kal, Kommo

Ichi: X-man, Ultra, Me

2-3 others with 1 vote.

Get someone to swith to Dutch, vote Dutch yourself, and I'll make three and he can zip past both of you for the win.

Csargo

01-17-2007, 03:59

I'de rather not see Kommodus die so

Unvote:Prole though your still suspicious
Vote:Dutch_Guy

Well do for obvious reasons. Your not really adding anything to the discussion your about like Sigurd up there lieing about the phone numbers and trying to get Kommodus lynched.

JimBob

01-17-2007, 04:32

Vote: Dutch_Guy

Kommodus

01-17-2007, 04:33

...huh.

Strange doings are afoot, it seems. I expected to check back in and see a landslide of votes against me. Instead, it looks like a... tie. Or close.

And apparently I have Jimbob to thank for it. Well, that explains this:

You have received an envelope in the mail. It contains no return address but from the stamp it must be local. it contains a slip of red paper that reads: "discovery1" and a slip of blue paper that reads "Sir Boo". You are consumed with curiosity, and if you perform any night action it may only be on one of these two people.

Sasaki

IIRC, I got that between the second round's execution and the third round's kills. I wondered what was up with that... now I know. I guess a note of thanks is in order, JB - I didn't think that note would have much of an effect on anything.

Well, given the situation I suppose it'd be a bit morbid for me to put the lynch vote on myself, so I'll take this opportunity to...

Unvote: Kommodus
Vote: Sir Moody

I mean, numerically, he's still my prime suspect. Also, there was a curious little spat between him and GH in the beginning, which could've been an attempt to distance himself from GH, especially since his vote for GH was quickly retracted. He did vote for GH in the latest lynching round, but only after it became apparent that GH was going down. Lately he seems to be laying kinda low, especially since I named him earlier. :inquisitive:

Seamus Fermanagh

01-17-2007, 04:36

Oh goody, now I can go to bed.

Unvote: Ichigo
Vote: Dutch_guy

reasons in posts above

Not as suspicious of Moody yet, but you may have it right Kommo -- other data points to consider?

Sasaki Kojiro

01-17-2007, 05:59

Dutch_guy has been lynched.

***

Dutch_guy 3 (Ichigo,Jimbob,Seamus)

Kommodus 2 (al khalifah,doc_bean)
Sir Moody 2(AggonyDuck,Kommodus)
ichigo 2(ultrawar,Xiahou)
Prole 1(ichigo)
Al Khalifa 1(Ituralde)

abstain(dutch_guy,husar)

Killed (7):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Warluster
Masy
Don Corleone
Sir Boo

Lynched(3):
Reenk Roink
GeneralHankerchief
Dutch_guy

Suicide(1):
Divine Wind

Alive: (16):

discovery1
Proletariat
Jimbob
Seamus Fermanagh
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Ichigo

pm's please

Sigurd

01-17-2007, 09:17

WHAT THE £€%@@$!!!!!!!

I don't believe it...
How could you let Kommodus slip away like that?
Didn't any of you see the kneejerk reaction of Discovery1 ?????
AND the obvious fake role that Kommodus claimed when the bandwagon against him got rolling?

COME ON!!!!

I shall haunt you people in your dreams... You will not see the end of this.

Sir Moody

01-17-2007, 11:20

i miss one days voting and everything gets messed up - Dutch_Guy wasn't even on the radar and we lynched him because he wasnt contributing much??? wow thats really really bad reason to lynch at this stage - assuming GH was mafia that means we have 2 mafia left and 5 or 6 rounds left assuming no more suicides or WOG - lynching people who dont contribute much isnt going to help much.

so who tops my suspect list now?

Kommodus - how you didnt lynch him is a mystery to me he is the prime choice for a mafia outfit as he never explains any of his "methods" and is generally considered pro-Town. His odd role also has me highly suspicious of him

Ichigo - im not sure here but hes a complete flip flop - one second hes a saint and helping the town the next second hes throwing wild accusations around and the sudden twist onto Dutch_Guy rather than komm has me wondering what is going on

Seamus Fermanagh/jimbob - they both joined Ichigo very quickly and saved komm with no real explanation they just jumped on board

AggonyDuck - oh joy more quick shots at my spelling how i enjoy reading those - hes been laying pretty low up until now makes you wonder why he comes out of the woodwork and opens the door for kommodus to slip out without jumping on the Dutch_Guy wagon - seems a little too convenient to me

Proletariat - has completely dropped off the radar and is looking a WOG in the face, if she magically reappears then i would say lynching is in order

Hussar - lowest on my list - the early mafia messages were quite plainly trying to make us lynch him and we didnt - while i doubt it there is a chance it was too set up an iron clad alibi for Hussar, too risky in my books but...

Sigurd

01-17-2007, 11:26

Alright my contact with the masons have not responded as of yet but I feel the need to post this.
In light of JimBob’s reveal and the names he presented and when they were sent.
I shall inform you that both those names ; Ituralde and Sir Boo was attempted murdered the nights JimBob sent those messages. This could of course be a coincidence and doesn’t really mean that Kommodus or Ichigo is mafia.
I however believe that Kommodus is Mafioso in this game.
Ituralde was protected the night I died. If you remember there was only one kill that night. I don’t know if the Masons get a message telling them that their protected player was attempted murdered.
Sir Boo was protected by the Masons two nights in a row but was killed the night he wasn’t protected. As you all noticed when Don C got killed there was only one kill that night too. I believe that was the night Kommodus should have acted against Sir Boo if he was a mafia.
Also… The reason I rallied support for Ichigo was because he contacted me, thinking he had a role that he hadn’t been informed with. He copied the contents from Sasaki’s Pm and it is correct as JimBob told us, Ichigo got a red slip with the name of Disco and a blue slip with the name of Ituralde.
The question is: Did the mafia know about JimBob’s role or was it Sasaki who changed the kills if necessary? Also noteworthy is the fact that the masons put Sir Boo in their message naming him innocent. So the attempts on his life should not be a surprise.
I have to wonder though. Why the mafia attempted 2 unsuccessful kills on the man and a third successful when it is obvious that the masons put Sir Boo up as bait.

Signed,
Sigurd F
Your friendly ghost, spiritual advisor, townie spook and Archenemies of the Godfather

Husar

01-17-2007, 12:05

How could you let Kommodus slip away like that?
Didn't any of you see the kneejerk reaction of Discovery1 ?????
Do you really think disco is surprised that you react in such a way?
He would happily defend all townies as long as we lynch them for that reason.
He would also happily defend his mafioso if we don't lynch them for that reason.
You are taking disco too much into consideration concerning your judgement.

AND the obvious fake role that Kommodus claimed when the bandwagon against him got rolling?
I unvoted him because I can understand his opinion and he did make sense apart from that role, then again, even the role may be true, I don't know what roles Sasaki invented.

I'm still waiting to see the fate of dutch_guy since my voting pattern is very similar.:2thumbsup:

And on top of that I even challenged the "evidence" against GH, I mean, isn't it obvious that I am pro-mafia? You guys rally have some weird voting patterns considering that I am still alive. Almost makes me hope that disco comes up with an awesome kill for me.:juggle2:

Well, we'll see this night.