Would likesome hints re Cavalry Charges and Javelin Infantry

[oudysseos]

Would like to know from those on high;

What is the best method for cavalry charging?
1. Single right click on target
2. Double right click on target
3. Alt-right click on target (single or double)
4. Double click on open ground just past the target

And I'm having a little trouble understanding how to best use javelin/pilum throwing infantry- even when I set them to auto-fire they don't always throw first before attacking with swords. I feel like I'm not getting good use out of thorakitai etc.- they often finish a battle with full ammo bars and heavy casualties. How do I make sure that they throw their dam' spears? If I right click on the target they are as likely to pile in hand-to-hand.

Thanks. Best computer game I have ever seen. Hope .81 is coming soon.

[Fleeb]

Not sure bout the horse charge... I always double right click and it seems to work fine.

Infantry with javelins need to be set to fire-at-will. If the enemy is charging at them they may or may not get off a volley before hand to hand combat is joined. If you right click to attack the enemy (the pointer should turn into a javelin icon) they will throw one volley then charge. If you do not tell them to charge (and fire at will is on) they shoud sit back in their lines and throw javelins at any enemy near them. If you alt-right click they will charge hand to hand, and won't throw anything first.

[Zaknafien]

For Romans, I would set your first-line hastati at fire-at-will, but not the principes. A good volley of pila can rout shaken enemies if timed right. You can select them to attack, and they throw one volley then charge. I always hit "stop" afte the first volley, and then hit attack again to make them throw their second volley.

[Ludens]

For cavalry, I always use [Alt][double-click]. I am under the impression that the unit A.I. starts to run a little too late to get a proper charge, so it's better to order them to run straight away. The Alt button will order them to use their secondary weapon after the charge (provided they have one off course). Secondary weapons usually have better attack values and/or AP properties.

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, it's vital especially for cataphracts to alt(double)right-click. The lances are fairly useless in straight hand-to-hand, because they only distribute the charge damage and don't do that much damage on their own, but for example Hai Hye Sparapet have armour-piercing maces as their secondary weapon. The secondary weapon attack value is just not written on the unit description. Those maces are super-effective, they eat infantry alive.

Oh, by the by. This is the best mod ever for a single-player game. Well done guys. I've been busy with school and the actual playing, but I had to log on to thank you. It's superb, I love the intricacies and the effort you've taken to make a great game. R:TW will never be anywhere near Civilization of Crusader Kings in empire building, but your mod may very well have perfected it's concept.

[Sarcasm]

Best tips I can give about cavalry is:

*Keep them fresh for as long as possible;
*Charge with plenty of space between your cavalry and the enemy [applies only to double-handed lances];
*Keep them out of melee, unless you really feel like the enemy will break;
*Keeping formation will maximize the effect of the charge, so try not to charge after a tight maneuver, or through your own troops [most likely to happen with your skirmishing line, if you use it].
*Stack;
*Cavalry is a decisive force, commit only when there's actually a use for it [very important if you have few cavalrymen].

[Tellos Athenaios]

And use the hit and run tactic.

[Tuuvi]

A useful hint for skirmishers: if your skirmishers get charged by cavalry, let your skirmishers fight them in melee for a while, but not too long so they don't rout or get cut to peices, then tell them to throw their javelins at the cavalry. Even if the enemy is heavy cavalry they will probably rout instantly. How did I find that out? I had a very painful experience with my KH bodygaurd fighting a unit of akontistai :furious3: .

[Fondor_Yards]

A useful hint for skirmishers: if your skirmishers get charged by cavalry, let your skirmishers fight them in melee for a while, but not too long so they don't rout or get cut to peices, then tell them to throw their javelins at the cavalry. Even if the enemy is heavy cavalry they will probably rout instantly. How did I find that out? I had a very painful experience with my KH bodygaurd fighting a unit of akontistai :furious3: .

I had something like that happen to me as Carthage. A half full unit of sacred band cavalry caught some merc light gallic cav in meele, and were doing a fine job of murdering them. But instead of fighting, they just keep throwing their javelins. They were killing my sacred band as fast as they were dieing themselves, and had more me! Lucky, they ran outta ammo quickly *already used half or so I guess*, and tried to run. As they started to run, they dropped like flies.

[GodEmperorLeto]

If you watch, carefully, the most damage is done by cavalry is in the initial shock. Just for kicks, pick a cav unit and a cheap light or medium infantry unit for a custom battle. Order the cavalry to charge, then keep your cursor over the infantry victims. The cavalry will hit, and they will rapidly drop about 5-10%, then settle into attrition losses.

Therefore, you should pull your cavalry out of the fight, reform, and charge again. This can tire them out, yes, but no more than having them swing it out in the scrum. And it maximizes their shock value.

It's best to use them on the flank of an enemy formation, as well, or the rear. And, even though it's oft-repeated, it is nevertheless important to mention: don't charge directly into pikes/sarissai! That's suicide.

[Kugutsu]

Combining javelins and a cavalry charge to the rear is a pretty certain way to get the enemy routing. I just fought a Sweboz battle against vastly superior numbers - 600 vs 1600 enemies. My main line of infantry are the standard german purple spear guys who throw javelins. I also had 4 units of german skirmisher cavalry - by no means the greatest in the game - and some of those blacked out wolf guys. The enemy came at my line, my spearmen were on auto-fire, so got in a couple of volleys of javelins before the enemy got to them. When they were nicely engaged I first got my wolf guys to attack the flank of the last unit in the line, inspiring fear, then got my cavalry to charge the rears of the first 4 enemy units at that end of the battle, slightly staggered, so they hit each unit slightly after the last one. Instant rout, with huge casualties. I then pulled them back and repeated with the next lot. By the end the cumulative effect meant most of them were broken before my cavalry even hit...

[blacksnail]

Single right-click from a decent distance (roughly twice the length between units as the cavalry unit is wide, is a good rule of thumb). Be sure your cavalry are formed up in rows before you do this. Hit them from behind or in their unshielded (right) flank. Angles aren't your friends; avoid coming in at 45^ if at all possible. I tend to go with four roughly equal rows against tighter packed units (like hoplitai or hastati) and three roughly equal rows against looser units (such as akontistai).

If you do it right, you will see the cavalry trot for a short distance and then break into a full gallop. The impacts you get from this are, in almost all cases, noticeably more powerful than double-right clicking and simply running your cavalry into the enemy.

[Kralizec]

Has anybody else tried using EB 0.8 to see if the wedge ability has any use in 1.5? I got mixed results with that.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

pftt! The wedge ability is just an excuse to put the guy everyone hates out front.

But, anyways, I find that having your cavalry at a complete stop and facing the enemy before the charge helps.