Isle of Crete - Castle or City?

[fergley]

I'm about 20 turns in on my Sicily campaign and Venice has decided to blockade Naples. I'd like to use this as a pretext to take the isle of Crete (Iraklion) from them.

My question is, after I take it should I leave it as a castle or convert to city? I just took Rhodes and plan to use that as my castle for crusading. I also have Tunis as a Castle. Is it worth it economically to convert Crete to a city? I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[Kraggenmor]

For me, it would depend entirely on what else I have. Someone made a rule of thumb on these baords with which I heartily agree:

"If it can have a port, make it a city."

EDIT: Found the post I meant


My simple rule is that if the settlement can have a port then make it a City, if not then a castle. Economics wins wars in the long run

Credit to Maestro.

Of course you can't use that as a blanket. Every province in Spain can have a port and you need castles so then it comes down to strategic placement.

So, I suppose the question is 'Do you need a castle?'

Look at the island. What, if any, trade resources are available on it that you won't be able to take advantage of by being a castle and not a city?

Consider such things.

[Quillan]

Iraklion starts as a city. Leave it there. Prior to the patch, the enemy would never invade it. After the patch they will, but it can still be held as a city and it won't make any money at all as a castle. Add in the fact that you need a navy to ship troops to and from the isle, and it's not worth keeping as a castle. In fact, I recommend that no city on an island be a castle, with the possible exception of Palermo, and that only because you can walk if necessary from Palermo up through Italy.

[Joshwa]

Make it a castle, because, as a city, if you look very carefully at it, you will be able to see the sea 'through' it, as in, between the outer wall and the buildings, as the model for the city is bigger than the little outcrop it sits on. Bugs the hell out of me! Crete only has wood anyway so it's not a huge waste, and its position in the middle of the east med means you can build armies there and send them to thwack anyone you choose to.

[katank]

It's unlikely to become a major troop producer. Since you have little control over naval battles, luck could cause you to lose some naval battles and temporarily lose control of the high seas. If you rely on an island castle to produce an army, that army may very well be stranded.

As for the graphical glitch, I never even noticed it. No biggie.

[A. Smith]

city.

1) its an island, so the sea trade makes incredible money.
2) one layer of walls is generally enough;
3) eventually, you will make the byzantines, egyptians, etc. busy enough with land invasion, so they wont even think of attacking that small unimportant island, and you will be stuck with a low-income castle
4) troops are hard to ferry accross (immobilises money in worthless boats)
5) who cares about that graphics bug?

[Skott]

I always set it to city because no one ever tries to invade it. At least not so far anyway.

[Joshwa]

Post 1.1 the AI seems very big on invading islands, particularly on VH. I took Crete from the Venetians, and within about 3 turns the Sicilians had landed a huge task-force there to take advantage of the chaos, damn vultures!

[Daveybaby]

City. Its an island, so lots of sea trade. Also, castles are for producing troops - and an island isnt good as a troop producer because its a pain getting those troops where you need them to be.

[LordKhaine]

Depends on how volatile the situation is there regarding security. If you expect heavy military action against the settlement build a castle, if not build a city. If you think squalor will also be an issue (unlikely considering its proximity to your captial), it may be a reason to edge more towards a castle. Remember you can always keep it a castle for a decade or two while you strength the garrison and build up the population and infrastrucure, and then convert it to a city.

[fergley]

Thanks for the advice all.

Based on what most people said about the sea trade, I left it a city. The Venetians did try to reclaim it, but as I had Rhodes as a knight producing castle, I was able to rush a few over there the same turn to help with the defense!

It seems to be doing well for me economically, as well! Now I plan on taking Cyprus!

[Quillan]

Cyprus can be lucrative, but in this game Crete and Rhodes are mediocre money generators at best. Back in RTW, the sheer number of ports on the Aegean coupled with the Collossus (+40% naval trade) meant vast amounts of cash could be earned there. In this game, you have Constantinople, Thessalonica, Corinth, Nicaea, Smyrna, Rhodes and Iraklion as the only ports in the region. 3 of those are castles by default, and the resources are fewer on the southern end as well. Even upgraded, Crete is generating only a little over 2000 per turn total in my last campaign, while Sardinia is closing in on the 6000 per turn mark.

[PureFodder]

As a city you can get more money from sea trade, plus you get free upkeep if you station milita units there.

My best advice, if you see a huge Venitian army sailing towards Crete, stick as many units as you can from Naples and Palmero in boats and go raid Venice as you'll find it devoid of troops (the computer will put all but one unit from one province on the boats it sends so by the time you get there Venice will most likely have about 4 units defending). Sacking Venice will give you more than enough cash to build an army to go get Crete back.

Also consider putting your Crete defenders on a boat when an attacking party arrives and then selling Crete to the Pope. You should get an easy 5-6k, a massive boost in popularity with the Pope and the faction attacking the now Papal Crete will get itself excommunicated so you can continue fighting them without worrying about the Pope.

[Sheogorath]

I would first take into account your enemies in the area, and where you plan to invade.

If youre going to be invading the Holy Land, Byzantines, Turks, Egyptians, etc. etc., go for a castle. While your not going to get invaded, you can build troops there and launch invasions without fear of your castle getting taken due to lack of defenders.
The same goes for any island, really. Rhodes might be a better choice if your specifically targetting Antolia and such.

If you dont plan on invading, or your finished with your invasions, convert it to a city.

[Varyar]

It's completely a strategic decision. If you hold the provinces around the Aegean, city is a better choice because of commerce. If it's an outpost, like it is for Venice, a castle might be better. Castles also provide the benefit of quickly replenishing/enhancing crusader armies, or any army operating in the eastern Med. Also, with a castle you can always change your mind.

In your particular case, since you own more than one island, I'd say one castle is definitely enough.