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Banquo's Ghost
01-07-2007, 12:34
In amongst all the other news from that poor, crushed country, this one is slipping quietly through. The Independent on Sunday has got hold of the draft of a new law (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2132574.ece)that will neatly hand over Iraq's oil revenues to US and UK interests - at what appears to be outrageously profitable terms.

Of course, the "sovereign" parliament of Iraq will debate this with strength and vigour, ensuring that no special interests will gain an advantage. Or they'll sign whatever they are told to.

Bad taste in the mouth doesn't even begin to cover it. :shame:

Blood and oil: How the West will profit from Iraq's most precious commodity

The 'IoS' today reveals a draft for a new law that would give Western oil companies a massive share in the third largest reserves in the world. To the victors, the oil? That is how some experts view this unprecedented arrangement with a major Middle East oil producer that guarantees investors huge profits for the next 30 years

Published: 07 January 2007

So was this what the Iraq war was fought for, after all? As the number of US soldiers killed since the invasion rises past the 3,000 mark, and President George Bush gambles on sending in up to 30,000 more troops, The Independent on Sunday has learnt that the Iraqi government is about to push through a law giving Western oil companies the right to exploit the country's massive oil reserves.

And Iraq's oil reserves, the third largest in the world, with an estimated 115 billion barrels waiting to be extracted, are a prize worth having. As Vice-President Dick Cheney noted in 1999, when he was still running Halliburton, an oil services company, the Middle East is the key to preventing the world running out of oil.

Now, unnoticed by most amid the furore over civil war in Iraq and the hanging of Saddam Hussein, the new oil law has quietly been going through several drafts, and is now on the point of being presented to the cabinet and then the parliament in Baghdad. Its provisions are a radical departure from the norm for developing countries: under a system known as "production-sharing agreements", or PSAs, oil majors such as BP and Shell in Britain, and Exxon and Chevron in the US, would be able to sign deals of up to 30 years to extract Iraq's oil.

PSAs allow a country to retain legal ownership of its oil, but gives a share of profits to the international companies that invest in infrastructure and operation of the wells, pipelines and refineries. Their introduction would be a first for a major Middle Eastern oil producer. Saudi Arabia and Iran, the world's number one and two oil exporters, both tightly control their industries through state-owned companies with no appreciable foreign collaboration, as do most members of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries, Opec.

Critics fear that given Iraq's weak bargaining position, it could get locked in now to deals on bad terms for decades to come. "Iraq would end up with the worst possible outcome," said Greg Muttitt of Platform, a human rights and environmental group that monitors the oil industry. He said the new legislation was drafted with the assistance of BearingPoint, an American consultancy firm hired by the US government, which had a representative working in the American embassy in Baghdad for several months.

"Three outside groups have had far more opportunity to scrutinise this legislation than most Iraqis," said Mr Muttitt. "The draft went to the US government and major oil companies in July, and to the International Monetary Fund in September. Last month I met a group of 20 Iraqi MPs in Jordan, and I asked them how many had seen the legislation. Only one had."

Britain and the US have always hotly denied that the war was fought for oil. On 18 March 2003, with the invasion imminent, Tony Blair proposed the House of Commons motion to back the war. "The oil revenues, which people falsely claim that we want to seize, should be put in a trust fund for the Iraqi people administered through the UN," he said.

"The United Kingdom should seek a new Security Council Resolution that would affirm... the use of all oil revenues for the benefit of the Iraqi people."

That suggestion came to nothing. In May 2003, just after President Bush declared major combat operations at an end, under a banner boasting "Mission Accomplished", Britain co-sponsored a resolution in the Security Council which gave the US and UK control over Iraq's oil revenues. Far from "all oil revenues" being used for the Iraqi people, Resolution 1483 continued to make deductions from Iraq's oil earnings to pay compensation for the invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

That exception aside, however, the often-stated aim of the US and Britain was that Iraq's oil money would be used to pay for reconstruction. In July 2003, for example, Colin Powell, then Secretary of State, insisted: "We have not taken one drop of Iraqi oil for US purposes, or for coalition purposes. Quite the contrary... It cost a great deal of money to prosecute this war. But the oil of the Iraqi people belongs to the Iraqi people; it is their wealth, it will be used for their benefit. So we did not do it for oil."

Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary at the time of the war and now head of the World Bank, told Congress: "We're dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."

But this optimism has proved unjustified. Since the invasion, Iraqi oil production has dropped off dramatically. The country is now producing about two million barrels per day. That is down from a pre-war peak of 3.5 million barrels. Not only is Iraq's whole oil infrastructure creaking under the effects of years of sanctions, insurgents have constantly attacked pipelines, so that the only steady flow of exports is through the Shia-dominated south of the country.

Worsening sectarian violence and gangsterism have driven most of the educated élite out of the country for safety, depriving the oil industry of the Iraqi experts and administrators it desperately needs.

And even the present stunted operation is rife with corruption and smuggling. The Oil Ministry's inspector-general recently reported that a tanker driver who paid $500 in bribes to police patrols to take oil over the western or northern border would still make a profit on the shipment of $8,400.

"In the present state, it would be crazy to pump in more money, just to be stolen," said Greg Muttitt. "It's another reason not to bring in $20bn of foreign money now."

Before the war, Mr Bush endorsed claims that Iraq's oil would pay for reconstruction. But the shortage of revenues afterwards has silenced him on this point. More recently he has argued that oil should be used as a means to unify the country, "so the people have faith in central government", as he put it last summer.

But in a country more dependent than almost any other on oil - it accounts for 70 per cent of the economy - control of the assets has proved a recipe for endless wrangling. Most of the oil reserves are in areas controlled by the Kurds and Shias, heightening the fears of the Sunnis that their loss of power with the fall of Saddam is about to be compounded by economic deprivation.

The Kurds in particular have been eager to press ahead, and even signed some small PSA deals on their own last year, setting off a struggle with Baghdad. These issues now appear to have been resolved, however: a revenue-sharing agreement based on population was reached some months ago, and sources have told the IoS that regional oil companies will be set up to handle the PSA deals envisaged by the new law.

The Independent on Sunday has obtained a copy of an early draft which was circulated to oil companies in July. It is understood there have been no significant changes made in the final draft. The terms outlined to govern future PSAs are generous: according to the draft, they could be fixed for at least 30 years. The revelation will raise Iraqi fears that oil companies will be able to exploit its weak state by securing favourable terms that cannot be changed in future.

Iraq's sovereign right to manage its own natural resources could also be threatened by the provision in the draft that any disputes with a foreign company must ultimately be settled by international, rather than Iraqi, arbitration.

In the July draft obtained by The Independent on Sunday, legislators recognise the controversy over this, annotating the relevant paragraph with the note, "Some countries do not accept arbitration between a commercial enterprise and themselves on the basis of sovereignty of the state."

It is not clear whether this clause has been retained in the final draft.

Under the chapter entitled "Fiscal Regime", the draft spells out that foreign companies have no restrictions on taking their profits out of the country, and are not subject to any tax when doing this.

"A Foreign Person may repatriate its exports proceeds [in accordance with the foreign exchange regulations in force at the time]." Shares in oil projects can also be sold to other foreign companies: "It may freely transfer shares pertaining to any non-Iraqi partners." The final draft outlines general terms for production sharing agreements, including a standard 12.5 per cent royalty tax for companies.

It is also understood that once companies have recouped their costs from developing the oil field, they are allowed to keep 20 per cent of the profits, with the rest going to the government. According to analysts and oil company executives, this is because Iraq is so dangerous, but Dr Muhammad-Ali Zainy, a senior economist at the Centre for Global Energy Studies, said: "Twenty per cent of the profits in a production sharing agreement, once all the costs have been recouped, is a large amount." In more stable countries, 10 per cent would be the norm.

While the costs are being recovered, companies will be able to recoup 60 to 70 per cent of revenue; 40 per cent is more usual. David Horgan, managing director of Petrel Resources, an Aim-listed oil company focused on Iraq, said: "They are reasonable rates of return, and take account of the bad security situation in Iraq. The government needs people, technology and capital to develop its oil reserves. It has got to come up with terms which are good enough to attract companies. The major companies tend to be conservative."

Dr Zainy, an Iraqi who has recently visited the country, said: "It's very dangerous ... although the security situation is far better in the north." Even taking that into account, however, he believed that "for a company to take 20 per cent of the profits in a production sharing agreement once all the costs have been recouped is large".

He pointed to the example of Total, which agreed terms with Saddam Hussein before the second Iraq war to develop a huge field. Although the contract was never signed, the French company would only have kept 10 per cent of the profits once the company had recovered its costs.

And while the company was recovering its costs, it is understood it agreed to take only 40 per cent of the profits, the Iraqi government receiving the rest.

Production sharing agreements of more than 30 years are unusual, and more commonly used for challenging regions like the Amazon where it can take up to a decade to start production. Iraq, in contrast, is one of the cheapest and easiest places in the world to drill for and produce oil. Many fields have already been discovered, and are waiting to be developed.

Analysts estimate that despite the size of Iraq's reserves - the third largest in the world - only 2,300 wells have been drilled in total, fewer than in the North Sea.

Confirmation of the generous terms - widely feared by international non government organisations and Iraqis alike - have prompted some to draw parallels with the production-sharing agreements Russia signed in the 1990s, when it was bankrupt and in chaos.

At the time Shell was able to sign very favourable terms to develop oil and gas reserves off the coast of Sakhalin island in the far east of Russia. But at the end of last year, after months of thinly veiled threats from the environment regulator, the Anglo-Dutch company was forced to give Russian state-owned gas giant Gazprom a share in the project.

Although most other oil experts endorsed the view that PSAs would be needed to kick-start exports from Iraq, Mr Muttitt disagreed. "The most commonly mentioned target has been for Iraq to increase production to 6 million barrels a day by 2015 or so," he said. "Iraq has estimated that it would need $20bn to $25bn of investment over the next five or six years, roughly $4bn to $5bn a year. But even last year, according to reports, the Oil Ministry had between $3bn and $4bn it couldn't invest. The shortfall is around $1bn a year, and that could easily be made up if the security situation improved.

"PSAs have a cost in sovereignty and future revenues. It is not true at all that this is the only way to do it." Technical services agreements, of the type common in countries which have a state-run oil corporation, would be all that was necessary.

James Paul of Global Policy Forum, another advocacy group, said: "The US and the UK have been pressing hard on this. It's pretty clear that this is one of their main goals in Iraq." The Iraqi authorities, he said, were "a government under occupation, and it is highly influenced by that. The US has a lot of leverage... Iraq is in no condition right now to go ahead and do this."

Mr Paul added: "It is relatively easy to get the oil in Iraq. It is nowhere near as complicated as the North Sea. There are super giant fields that are completely mapped, [and] there is absolutely no exploration cost and no risk. So the argument that these agreements are needed to hedge risk is specious."

One point on which all agree, however, is that only small, maverick oil companies are likely to risk any activity in Iraq in the foreseeable future. "Production over the next year in Iraq is probably going to fall rather than go up," said Kevin Norrish, an oil analyst from Barclays. "The whole thing is held together by a shoestring; it's desperate."

An oil industry executive agreed, saying: "All the majors will be in Iraq, but they won't start work for years. Even Lukoil [of Russia], the Chinese and Total [of France] are not in a rush to endanger themselves. It's now very hard for US and allied companies because of the disastrous war."

Mr Muttitt echoed warnings that unfavourable deals done now could unravel a few years down the line, just when Iraq might become peaceful enough for development of its oil resources to become attractive. The seeds could be sown for a future struggle over natural resources which has led to decades of suspicion of Western motives in countries such as Iran.

Iraqi trade union leaders who met recently in Jordan suggested that the legislation would cause uproar once its terms became known among ordinary Iraqis.

"The Iraqi people refuse to allow the future of their oil to be decided behind closed doors," their statement said. "The occupier seeks and wishes to secure... energy resources at a time when the Iraqi people are seeking to determine their own future, while still under conditions of occupation."

The resentment implied in their words is ominous, and not only for oil company executives in London or Houston. The perception that Iraq's wealth is being carved up among foreigners can only add further fuel to the flames of the insurgency, defeating the purpose of sending more American troops to a country already described in a US intelligence report as a cause célèbre for terrorism.

America protects its fuel supplies - and contracts

Despite US and British denials that oil was a war aim, American troops were detailed to secure oil facilities as they fought their way to Baghdad in 2003. And while former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld shrugged off the orgy of looting after the fall of Saddam's statue in Baghdad, the Oil Ministry - alone of all the seats of power in the Iraqi capital - was under American guard.

Halliburton, the firm that Dick Cheney used to run, was among US-based multinationals that won most of the reconstruction deals - one of its workers is pictured, tackling an oil fire. British firms won some contracts, mainly in security. But constant violence has crippled rebuilding operations. Bechtel, another US giant, has pulled out, saying it could not make a profit on work in Iraq.

In just 40 pages, Iraq is locked into sharing its oil with foreign investors for the next 30 years

A 40-page document leaked to the 'IoS' sets out the legal framework for the Iraqi government to sign production- sharing agreement contracts with foreign companies to develop its vast oil reserves.

The paper lays the groundwork for profit-sharing partnerships between the Iraqi government and international oil companies. It also lays out the basis for co-operation between Iraq's federal government and its regional authorities to develop oil fields.

The document adds that oil companies will enjoy contracts to extract Iraqi oil for up to 30 years, and stresses that Iraq needs foreign investment for the "quick and substantial funding of reconstruction and modernisation projects".

It concludes that the proposed hydrocarbon law is of "great importance to the whole nation as well as to all investors in the sector" and that the proceeds from foreign investment in Iraq's oilfields would, in the long term, decrease dependence on oil and gas revenues.

The role of oil in Iraq's fortunes

Iraq has 115 billion barrels of known oil reserves - 10 per cent of the world total. There are 71 discovered oilfields, of which only 24 have been developed. Oil accounts for 70 per cent of Iraq's GDP and 95 per cent of government revenue. Iraq's oil would be recovered under a production sharing agreement (PSA) with the private sector. These are used in only 12 per cent of world oil reserves and apply in none of the other major Middle Eastern oil-producing countries. In some countries such as Russia, where they were signed at a time of political upheaval, politicians are now regretting them.

The $50bn bonanza for US companies piecing a broken Iraq together

The task of rebuilding a shattered Iraq has gone mainly to US companies.

As well as contractors to restore the infrastructure, such as its water, electricity and gas networks, a huge number of companies have found lucrative work supporting the ongoing coalition military presence in the country. Other companies have won contracts to restore Iraq's media; its schools and hospitals; its financial services industry; and, of course, its oil industry.

In May 2003, the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), part of the US Department of Defence, created the Project Management Office in Baghdad to oversee Iraq's reconstruction.

In June 2004 the CPA was dissolved and the Iraqi interim government took power. But the US maintained its grip on allocating contracts to private companies. The management of reconstruction projects was transferred to the Iraq Reconstruction and Management Office, a division of the US Department of State, and the Project and Contracting Office, in the Department of Defence.

The largest beneficiary of reconstruction work in Iraq has been KBR (Kellogg, Brown & Root), a division of US giant Halliburton, which to date has secured contracts in Iraq worth $13bn (£7bn), including an uncontested $7bn contract to rebuild Iraq's oil infrastructure. Other companies benefiting from Iraq contracts include Bechtel, the giant US conglomerate, BearingPoint, the consultant group that advised on the drawing up of Iraq's new oil legislation, and General Electric. According to the US-based Centre for Public Integrity, 150-plus US companies have won contracts in Iraq worth over $50bn.

30,000 Number of Kellogg, Brown and Root employees in Iraq.

36 The number of interrogators employed by Caci, a US company, that have worked in the Abu Ghraib prison since August 2003.

$12.1bn UN's estimate of the cost of rebuilding Iraq's electricity network.

$2 trillion Estimated cost of the Iraq war to the US, according to the Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

WHAT THEY SAID

"Oil revenues, which people falsely claim that we want to seize, should be put in a trust fund for the Iraqi people"

Tony Blair; Moving motion for war with Iraq, 18 March 2003

"Oil belongs to the Iraqi people; the government has... to be good stewards of that valuable asset "

George Bush; Press conference, 14 June 2006

"The oil of the Iraqi people... is their wealth. We did not [invade Iraq] for oil "

Colin Powell; Press briefing, 10 July 2003

"Oil revenues of Iraq could bring between $50bn and $100bn in two or three years... [Iraq] can finance its reconstruction"

Paul Wolfowitz; Deputy Defense Secretary, March 2003

"By 2010 we will need [a further] 50 million barrels a day. The Middle East, with two-thirds of the oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize lies"

Dick Cheney; US Vice-President, 1999

Pannonian
01-07-2007, 13:38
War is a racket, by (Gen) Smedley Butler (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html)


WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

This may actually be good for Iraq as a nation, if the deals are bad enough, and someone can find the nerve to defy the Americans. If the deals are so obviously exploitative that it turns everyone against the foreigners, Iraq may find a common cause. Then let someone, a Nasser or a Mossadeq, renationalise the oil industry without compensation, and that person may have all the Iraqi people behind them (minus the Kurds). Of course, he's going to risk assassination or overthrow by Washington, but that's the way the game is played.

Productivity
01-07-2007, 13:54
Interesting, nothing that I find particularly suprising but interesting all the same.

At this stage, what Iraq needs is for someone within the coalition to stand up and say that we're specifically diverting revenue into a fund for use at a later date. The Iraqi government is so immature in everyway that it can't go making 30 year deals at the moment. For the US and UK to allow it to make these decisions at the moment is just disgusting.

A rushed democracy that is missing support from a significant proportion of it's population, is under siege and can do little to run it's own country just isn't at the long term planning stage yet.

I'm not buying the argument that the US and UK invaded for oil. The economics for me don't work unless they got their modelling very very wrong. My view is that their were highly idealistic, ideological causes at the base of the invasion, however when presented with this situation they are taking what they can as well, but as a base cause I don't buy it.


This may actually be good for Iraq as a nation, if the deals are bad enough, and someone can find the nerve to defy the Americans. If the deals are so obviously exploitative that it turns everyone against the foreigners, Iraq may find a common cause. Then let someone, a Nasser or a Mossadeq, renationalise the oil industry without compensation, and that person may have all the Iraqi people behind them (minus the Kurds). Of course, he's going to risk assassination or overthrow by Washington, but that's the way the game is played.

With reference to nationalisation, this isn't a good thing long-run. Sure it might make a quick profit, but countries without local expertise are finding out very fast that taking over infrastructure that you can't run is a good way to kill your output and to scare off further investment. Venuezela is littered with tales of nationalised oil fields breaking down because the experts have been kicked out.

KukriKhan
01-07-2007, 14:22
Apparently, this is still "early days". A 1st or 2nd draft of a contract that proposes double the usual profit rate (as an opening negotiation position) doesn't sound all that unusual. Capitalistas do that all the time, don't they, whether negotiating with a labor union or supplier or a government?

The thing to watch carefully, I think, is the pressure exerted on and felt by Iraqi negotiators. If they cave-in and accept less than favorable conditions for Iraq, this deal/these deals will require more scrutiny by coalition governments to prevent cheating Iraq's people.

rory_20_uk
01-07-2007, 14:39
The UK and America invested all the money in the war, it's only fair that we get the lion's share of the spoils.

~:smoking:

Pannonian
01-07-2007, 14:48
With reference to nationalisation, this isn't a good thing long-run. Sure it might make a quick profit, but countries without local expertise are finding out very fast that taking over infrastructure that you can't run is a good way to kill your output and to scare off further investment. Venuezela is littered with tales of nationalised oil fields breaking down because the experts have been kicked out.
But my point isn't profits or viability, but the integrity of Iraq as a nation. Stagnation for a decade may be a worthwhile price for holding the country together and avoiding a massively destructive civil war. Renationalisation of the oil industry would merely be the tool with which to unite the country against the devious foreigners. As a western observer, wouldn't a socialist Iraq be better than anarchy or Islamic fundamentalism?

caravel
01-07-2007, 15:25
The whole operation has been for oil, and to gain a foothold in the middle east, in order to move on and secure even more oil, the problem is that they've botched Iraq and it's not going anywhere near as smoothly as they'd hoped. Afghanistan was also all about an oil pipeline, the Taliban were blocking it's construction. Two words: "Caspian Basin". Some people just don't want to accept this as it appears "conspiracy theorist" or somehow tacky. Sometimes the simplist answer is the correct answer. The west needs oil, the middle east is full of it, but some of the regimes there weren't co-operating.

To be honest I'm growing tired of the blinkered apologetic attitudes of some people that simply refuse to see the plain truth of the matter. Is anyone actually naive enough to think that the Iraq war was in the name of "freedom" or to "liberate" Iraq and bring them "democracy", and remove "Weapons of Mass Destruction".

Does anyone actually believe that Afghanistan was liberated by "kind souls" that just wanted to free the population from the oppressive taliban regime, while invading and flattening the place just to find one man that they never found? A man that could have been much more easily removed through espionage. Simple, he wasn't the target, the Taliban were all along.

Both Iraq and Afghanistan are now lawless hellholes that have been ruined by years of warfare. Iraq was on the mend since the first Gulf War, not a perfect regime, but name me a significantly better one among the 2nd and 3rd world countries? Afghanistan is in the same condition if not worse, but that rarely makes the news these days so most people are oblivious to it.

Rodion Romanovich
01-07-2007, 20:19
@Caravel: that's a good summary of things!

===============

It's sad that the American people don't realize the seriousness of this matter, along with other matters. The war in Iraq is an unprovoked attack against an innocent country, aimed at stealing its oil reserves, and American governments elected with support from less than 25% of the American people have fought similar wars in the past. The greatest chance of ending these mad wars isn't for the muslims to win, but if the American people would be able to solve the constitutional crisis so that not such lunatic governments can come to power. The consequences of such reigns of terror aren't nearly as bad for the muslims attacked by the Bush regime as what will happen to the American people when the turning point comes. Surely, the muslims suffer through decades of repression, misery, raping and pillaging enemy soldiers and murder, but will get on their feet again. However the third world is waking up and realizing that they are strong, and they haven't forgotten what has been done against them, and what things are planned against them in the future agendas of the Bush regime and similar regimes.

The right time to stop oppressing and attacking innocents isn't when the enemy hungry for revenge is on your doorstep, when you've lost all power and have no chance of defending yourself. Will you expect people to show you mercy when you showed them none? The time to stop oppressing is when you still have the strength to continue doing so if you wanted to. The man who ends oppression only in the face of overwhelming strength isn't forgiven, for he doesn't want to be forgiven for his sins but to survive the revenge he is righteously going to receive. Remember what happened to Louis XVI, who considered accepting revival of democracy only when the poor and war-overtaxated had become more powerful than him. Remember how much mercy the romans were shown when they asked for peace from the barbarians when the barbarians were at the gates of Rome.

If America would switch to defensive and stop wars such as that in Iraq, Europe would stand on her side when the people seeking revenge on America are on your doorsteps. However if the American people can't solve their constitutional crisis and make sure such brutal regimes as that of Bush can't gain power in America, then events such as Iraq will continue to repeat themselves over and over again until the moment when America gets too weak to defend herself. The chances for being forgiven are extremely small if you ask for forgiveness only because you lack the strength to continue doing what you wanted forgiveness for. Look - even now the support from Europe is faltering, the entire third world is beginning to turn against America, and China and Russia are neutral and in the process of gaining strength while America is losing hers. Who knows what side they will choose when America is in need? The muslims and other victims of the ambitions of Bush and his likes suffer a lot of cruelty, they will overcome it when the soldiers leave their country. But will America survive when the time comes when the third world gets strong enough to prepare a truly dangerous revenge? Remember the massive genocide of romans in the late ancient period. Even if you aren't responsible as persons for the cruelty of George Bush, the conflict is likely to hurt you too, like all wars between countries. It's not righteous that you should suffer for what one man did, but it's inevitable and the way things work. While the passive need not feel shame and bad conscience, they are often by political developments punished for passivness as if it were a crime.

So remember these words of the bible: "those that are strong shall bear up the infirmities of the weak, and not use their strength to please themselves". Remember that a change of American policy from colonialism and attacking innocent countries must happen while you're still strong. The avenging opponents will ask "why didn't you give me clothes when I was naked? Why didn't you feed me when I was hungry?" They will not judge lightly those that judged them. And they will not be fair judges, because they weren't fairly judged.

There is still a chance to end the bloodshed. If the bloodshed ends now and America concentrates only on defense of her own soil, Europe will still stand by her. But can we truly support an America that doesn't represent any of our ideals? That Europe hesitates to argue against America is something that America shouldn't abuse and mock. Does America truly need her strongest ally - Europe - to become neutral or even an enemy, when already the third world and the muslim world are her enemies? When China and Russia, former enemies of America, are beginning to rise in strength? When American economy and fighting spirit is declining because of the lack of something to fight for. How can the American nation fuel its desire to fight, when what it fights for is the right to steal oil from another country? Don't make the mistake of hubris and overestimation of your strength. Too many nations in history have already made that mistake. Don't abuse your allies and test the limits of their friendship, and don't make more enemies. Stop the oppression while you're still strong, don't think you can negotiate peace with a furious avenging enemy standing on your doorsteps with overwhelming force. Don't blindly think fear will deter those who seek revenge for unrighteousness. Don't make the mistake of believing it's the very act of telling the truth about these matters that makes the rebels gather against you - words can neither strengthen nor defeat them. Don't make the mistake of believing your enemies have even begun to fight yet, for they have not. Don't underestimate their numbers, tactics and morale.

Remember that this was the message Jesus died for on the cross: that those who oppress shall stop oppressing while they're strong and have a choice, not when they're weak, or they shall be judged harshly. Rome failed the test.

Yun Dog
01-08-2007, 00:58
meh! they can have the oil as long as they can control it. When they pull out the troops these laws will be as worthless as the paper they are written.

Cataphract_Of_The_City
01-08-2007, 02:01
meh! they can have the oil as long as they can control it. When they pull out the troops these laws will be as worthless as the paper they are written.

Naive. Before pulling out they will make sure that those in power are ready to do whatever it takes to stay in power. They will supply them with weapons to fight their citizens and soon enough they will have another dictator running the show in Iraq.

Yun Dog
01-08-2007, 03:02
Naive. Before pulling out they will make sure that those in power are ready to do whatever it takes to stay in power. They will supply them with weapons to fight their citizens and soon enough they will have another dictator running the show in Iraq.

I dont think that regime will last very long once the sherif has left town

just MO.

Navaros
01-08-2007, 03:30
No surprise to me that the War on Iraq is about trading blood for oil, I've been saying that for years and so has tons of other people who aren't blinded by the myth of "patriotism".

I suspect that despite the hard evidence that is now coming out about this, "patriots" will simply pretend it doesn't exist in the same way they pretend that the War on Iraq was not started based on bold-faced lies by the US government. :idea2:

Ice
01-08-2007, 03:56
I can't believe any of you find this surprising. That's really all there is to say.

PanzerJaeger
01-08-2007, 04:33
Excellent news. :yes:

Now all we need to do is put the noose around a lot more people's necks and this whole thing might turn out rosy. :2thumbsup:

Seamus Fermanagh
01-08-2007, 05:03
If we were really fighting in Iraq to acquire control of oil, we were pretty damned foolish about it. Good bit more sitting closer and less well defended straight South of CONUS. Could've trumped up something readily enough as a figleaf for our attack too.

Legio, if you are right about the sentiments of the 3rd World toward the USA, that they are simply awaiting their chance for payback, I think that little we could do now would change it.

As to Western Europe supporting us in defensive efforts, with what?

Keba
01-08-2007, 11:05
As to Western Europe supporting us in defensive efforts, with what?

Better question would be why rather than with what.

The way things stand in Europe, the US would find itself all alone if things turned against it. Europe would most likely simply stand aside and watch with a smug expression, saying 'I told you so'.

Oh, they'd help all right ... disaster relief and supplies after it was all said and done.

Legio, the main problem is that you believe that countries would act rationally and with morals ... they simply don't. Countries will act selifshly and only intervene when something becomes their problem. The EU wouldn't do squat to help out the US if the US alone got in trouble, unless someone directly threatens Europe.

Banquo's Ghost
01-08-2007, 11:42
If we were really fighting in Iraq to acquire control of oil, we were pretty damned foolish about it. Good bit more sitting closer and less well defended straight South of CONUS. Could've trumped up something readily enough as a figleaf for our attack too.

I am not one of those who believe that the US invaded purely because of oil, since if security of oil supplies was the important issue, it would have been a great deal simpler to work with Saddam in the same way the Saudi brutes are maintained.

But I do think the opportunity to gain commercial advantage after the invasion - given that it was going to happen anyway for other reasons - helped the inevitability of said invasion.

After all, we must remember that those who planned and led the invasion thought it was going to be a clean and easy operation, all over by Christmas. After all, it worked really well when they ran it through the MTW:Middle East Freedom mod. They thought the oil contracts would be some low-hanging fruit that would fall neatly into their lap from a grateful client government. None of them foresaw the nightmare their idiocy would vent forth.

Oil was clearly a factor in the invasion, but not the central one. To now consider imposing significantly unfair deals on a fragile and powerless government after crocking the country and promising publicly to utilise the majority of oil revenue to put it back together is the height of hypocrisy.

And if anyone thinks this is "reparations" to help recompense the American tax-payer, think again. First, Iraq was the one invaded and smashed, so the idea of reparation is a little odd - but more importantly, these deals are for private companies who will stash the profits away for their own shareholders. They are all big enough to avoid paying the vast majority of the tax which the US might claim.

So those tax-dollars supporting the troops and mortgaging the future are not going to be reduced by Iraq's oil - but this plan will make some policy-makers very much richer.

Rodion Romanovich
01-08-2007, 11:59
Legio, if you are right about the sentiments of the 3rd World toward the USA, that they are simply awaiting their chance for payback, I think that little we could do now would change it.

Plenty of things could be done now. First of all, the support - even if passive - from Europe would always lie as a protection against attack from the stronger countries such as China and Russia. And support from Europe would mean a chance of trade with Europe, and peace with China and Russia means trade with them as well, which prevents economical crisis. Secondly, showing an attempt to change to good will would make a tremendous difference. Thirdly, concentrating on defense would prevent overextension. The difference is huge.

Beirut
01-08-2007, 12:34
Blood for oil. It works.

Like Leonard Cohen says - "It's murder."

Productivity
01-08-2007, 13:07
For those who argue that it's an invasion on profit, a smash and grab for oil let me dig out some figures and run some quick and dirty calculations.

www.costofwar.com sets the price at about 350 Billion USD so far. That's missing a whole heap of other impacts such as medical costs to veterans etc.

Now we're talking about 350B USD capex so far. If Iraqs oil reserves are 115 billion barrels, at a 56.31 (current WTI spot), it's worth USD 6476 Billion for the whole lot. Not a bad figure. But there's a lot of investment there and these returns are going to be back-loaded rather than front which means any returns are going to be heavily discounted.

I've gone and done a few quick calculations, split that 6476 Billion figure over 100 years, discounted it back to get a PV and it comes out at about 650 Billion. That's pretty optimistic, assuming that production starts next year and that there are no more costs. If it slips five years, PV drops down to about 400 Billion. Then you consider that you've allready spent 350 Billion, you have to factor OPEX, further infrastructure repairs, drilling for new wells, refineries etc. the whole thing is looking very very negative.

The whole "they invaded for oil" argument stinks from an economic perspective. That doesn't mean that people aren't taking oil, it means that it wasn't the prime motivation. I work in the economics department of a major oil company, if the project I worked on had numbers like the 'great Iraq oil theft' it would be laughed all the way to the bin.

When you consider how cheap it would be to buy off the Iraq regime to be friendly, it's even more laughable.

EDIT: Yes, the calculations involved are very quick and crude. I've missed out plenty of factors that would make it more attractive. I've missed out plenty of factors that would make it less so. It's too illustrate that a smash and grab for oil just doesn't make as much sense as people would like to think.

Pannonian
01-08-2007, 13:28
The whole "they invaded for oil" argument stinks from an economic perspective. That doesn't mean that people aren't taking oil, it means that it wasn't the prime motivation. I work in the economics department of a major oil company, if the project I worked on had numbers like the 'great Iraq oil theft' it would be laughed all the way to the bin.

When you consider how cheap it would be to buy off the Iraq regime to be friendly, it's even more laughable.

EDIT: Yes, the calculations involved are very quick and crude. I've missed out plenty of factors that would make it more attractive. I've missed out plenty of factors that would make it less so. It's too illustrate that a smash and grab for oil just doesn't make as much sense as people would like to think.
Read Smedley Butler's essay. War profiteering isn't meant to benefit the country as a whole, it's meant to benefit those at the apex who are in the right position to take advantage of the situation. For them, war makes great economic sense, endless war even more so.

Banquo's Ghost
01-08-2007, 13:29
Good numbers Productivity, and I agree with you that oil grab was not the primary motivation.

However, your figures overlook the central political reality:

The American taxpayer is the one paying the cost of the invasion that informs your analysis - but it is private companies and their shareholders that will gain any profits from the oil contracts. You know as well as I do that these companies lay far less tax on those profits than Joe Bloggs.

The poor taxpayer gets the bill, but not the hot-dog.

Rodion Romanovich
01-08-2007, 13:31
Exactly! Just calculate how much it costs Bush, Rice and other people with oil interests, and how much they profit from the war. The poorest parts of the American people take the hit, having to pay for the war with their tax money.

Productivity
01-08-2007, 13:52
Exactly! Just calculate how much it costs Bush, Rice and other people with oil interests, and how much they profit from the war. The poorest parts of the American people take the hit, having to pay for the war with their tax money.

Last time I checked, XOM, CVX, COP were all publically listed companies. Damn them, damn them all, giving money back to shareholders who might just be US citizens.

The whole thing just doesn't add up to say it's all about oil. There's a large chunk of smash and grab on the side with big profits involved I admit, but on economic grounds it doesn't work out.

Maybe I'm too caught up in the oil company rhetoric, but I just can't see how anybody can view this as a profitable venture except for Bin Laden. Maybe I'm an idealist who isn't willing to accept that the US government is so ruthless as to throw away 350B + of taxpayers funds, thousands of American lives, untold foreign lives, international reputation all to boost corporate profits. If that's the America you beleive in, if that is the America that is, then I pity you, I pity every American citizen...

I prefer to be somewhat more optimistic and beleive that this hopeless mess was driven by a naieve, idealistic and ideological line, supported by friendly nothings whispered by information agencies wanting to please the executive. It's sad but it's not as sad as a giant, cynical conspiracy.



[semi-sarcasm]I'll print the essay tomorrow, at work, funded by the blood of American soldiers greasing the machine that is the oil company. How delightfully evil of me.[/semi-sarcasm]

Rodion Romanovich
01-08-2007, 14:04
Do you really think this would be the first time in history people make their country go to war on loose grounds to serve their own interests even if it brings the country down?

Productivity
01-08-2007, 14:25
Do you really think this would be the first time in history people make their country go to war on loose grounds to serve their own interests even if it brings the country down?

Dictatorships and democracies play by different rules...

Would it be the first time a country has been forced to war, or led to war by a leader. No, of course not.

Would it even be the first time a democracy has been led to war in a similar way? Probably not...

Do the rules change as information permeates society. Definately so. The fact that we're even having this discussion now just goes to show how far society has come in being aware of what happens. Under these circumstances, I don't think you could motivate a democracy to war for singular economic interests.

Rodion Romanovich
01-08-2007, 14:35
Do the rules change as information permeates society. Definately so. The fact that we're even having this discussion now just goes to show how far society has come in being aware of what happens. Under these circumstances, I don't think you could motivate a democracy to war for singular economic interests.
Demonizing Iraq was enough to make people think they were a threat, and after that it wasn't difficult to continue with the war plans. Also note that the war plans came AFTER Bush got elected the first time. Then he was reelected a second time because people generally don't like changing leaders in the middle of a war, and because his demonizing propaganda was still working at that time. Today, people are generally aware that is was mere propaganda, aware that no WMDs were found, and that the current state of things in Iraq are much more chaotic than they ever were during Saddam's reign. That someone would fail so utterly at bringing improvements to Iraq if they had truly been attempting to bring order, is very unlikely. And if they truly came to help and with pure and good intentions, would they then try to steal the country's oil as "thanks for the help" after their "help" turned out to be such a complete failure and a disaster for most Iraqis? If the true motive had been to bring order, they wouldn't demand any thanks for the help after failing so utterly at it. I won't believe the war was intended to bring order in Iraq until western armies withdraw AND stop using pressure and threats to get ridiculously favorable oil deals.

yesdachi
01-08-2007, 17:22
It almost smells like (sniff, sniff) plunder!

They get democracy, freedom, equality, stability, a regulated source of income that is not just aid and we get cheep oil and 3,000+ graves. I don’t know if it is right but I intend on investing in oil companies heavily over the next few months.

Ser Clegane
01-08-2007, 17:49
They get democracy, freedom, equality, stability

:inquisitive:

You are being sarcastic here, aren't you?

yesdachi
01-08-2007, 17:55
:inquisitive:

You are being sarcastic here, aren't you?
Well they don’t get it right now but (fingers crossed) hopefully in the future.

Ser Clegane
01-08-2007, 18:03
I'll join you in crossing fingers - as stability is certainly the most obvious that really went downhill after the invasion (which does not mean that a certain loss of stability is not acceptable in exchange for freedom/equality/democracy)

Pannonian
01-08-2007, 18:20
I'll join you in crossing fingers - as stability is certainly the most obvious that really went downhill after the invasion (which does not mean that a certain loss of stability is not acceptable in exchange for freedom/equality/democracy)
You'll probably find that freedom and democracy are overrated virtues. People would much rather know they would see tomorrow if they behaved themselves. The Augustan poets wrote a bit about the evils of civil war, having been through its turmoils themselves. There have been a number of Chinese films alluding to the subject.

Xiahou
01-08-2007, 18:59
Naturally, any oil company that's going to try to setup shop and invest billions in infrastructure in Iraq is going to expect a sweet-heart deal in return considering how likely oil infrastructure is to be targeted for bombing/sabotage. The Iraqi government needs money, they can't afford the resources to build up their oil infrastructure on their own, so they have to contract private companies.

No company would touch Iraq without the potential for significant rewards.

Ser Clegane
01-08-2007, 19:30
You'll probably find that freedom and democracy are overrated virtues. People would much rather know they would see tomorrow if they behaved themselves.
Freedom with a complete lack of stability is certainly overrated and actually not worth too much ("Freedom's just another word for nothing lest to lose" comes to mind ~;)), however, ideally one would have a healthy balance between freedom/democracy and stability.
If people valued stability so much over freedom there certainly would not have so many attempts to risk the fromer to achieve the latter.

On the thread topic - Xiahou certainly has a point that any investing oil company will expect higher returns for any investments in Iraq to make up for the higher risk. As long as there is a fair and (somewhat) transparent process for granting the rights to exploit oil fields (i.e. we see the likes of ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco competing with e.g., Total and Lukoil) I do not see a major problem here.
Let's see how things develop - keeping a doubtful eye on the process is certainly appropriate as even without "war for oil" theories it certainly would not be unheard of if government officials grant contracts to oil companies not primarily based on what is good for the country but perhaps rather what is best for their own bank account...

Yun Dog
01-09-2007, 02:05
For those who argue that it's an invasion on profit, a smash and grab for oil let me dig out some figures and run some quick and dirty calculations.

www.costofwar.com sets the price at about 350 Billion USD so far. That's missing a whole heap of other impacts such as medical costs to veterans etc.

Now we're talking about 350B USD capex so far. If Iraqs oil reserves are 115 billion barrels, at a 56.31 (current WTI spot), it's worth USD 6476 Billion for the whole lot. Not a bad figure. But there's a lot of investment there and these returns are going to be back-loaded rather than front which means any returns are going to be heavily discounted.

I've gone and done a few quick calculations, split that 6476 Billion figure over 100 years, discounted it back to get a PV and it comes out at about 650 Billion. That's pretty optimistic, assuming that production starts next year and that there are no more costs. If it slips five years, PV drops down to about 400 Billion. Then you consider that you've allready spent 350 Billion, you have to factor OPEX, further infrastructure repairs, drilling for new wells, refineries etc. the whole thing is looking very very negative.

The whole "they invaded for oil" argument stinks from an economic perspective. That doesn't mean that people aren't taking oil, it means that it wasn't the prime motivation. I work in the economics department of a major oil company, if the project I worked on had numbers like the 'great Iraq oil theft' it would be laughed all the way to the bin.

When you consider how cheap it would be to buy off the Iraq regime to be friendly, it's even more laughable.

EDIT: Yes, the calculations involved are very quick and crude. I've missed out plenty of factors that would make it more attractive. I've missed out plenty of factors that would make it less so. It's too illustrate that a smash and grab for oil just doesn't make as much sense as people would like to think.


I agree - even if you take a drastically increasing oil price and other optomistic figures - wouldve been far cheaper to just buy it off Saddam

It more of a bonus - we go to war with Iraq for the Crusade against evil and we offest our losses with any spoils of war we might get.

Productivity - scary thought but we may know each other - Perths a small town particularly if like me your in the Oil game. Although I try not to sully myself by associating with beanies. :beam: