Capo de Tutti Capi [Concluded]

[Csargo]

:inquisitive:

Im not a mafioso.

LIAR!

[JimBob]

Too much flak to see clearly right now so for the time being Vote: Abstain

pevergreen - 4 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
luigi VI di Fatlington - 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 2 (Alexander, Jimbob)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[Csargo]

Why did I suicide myself? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYy?

Edit:Oh I remember now :bigcry:

[pevergreen]

Damn rule #1!

Your location and Member title say Vote Sasaki, but i presume thats for the other mafia game?

[CountArach]

Pevergreen, if you post the PM here, and I mean the whole thing, including Seamus' name, then I will believe you.

[pevergreen]

That gives the Mafia a detective role PM so they can claim it later. Bad idea, to me at least.


Unfortunatly, if I was working for a family I would have killed someone by round three and my status would be "guilty" not "criminal.

Luca?

[Csargo]

Damn rule #1!

Your location and Member title say Vote Sasaki, but i presume thats for the other mafia game?

Even if I wasn't allowed I would post anyways:beam:

As for you second question:Vote:Sasaki

[pevergreen]

a) You may investigate two persons per night phase. The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty (Luca or Made on the night of kill, Wise guy or Townie who has killed

That doesnt answer any question Ichi :laugh4:

[Csargo]

That gives the Mafia a detective role PM so they can claim it later. Bad idea, to me at least.



Luca?

Likely excuse. Or is it the fact you have no Detective PM?:inquisitive:

[pevergreen]

If you were mafia, and someone had revealed a pro-townie role pm, you would use it as well wouldnt you?

GH would have used doctor one, even though he was a luca.

[Csargo]

That doesnt answer any question Ichi :laugh4:

You'de like to know wouldn't you?:mean:

[pevergreen]

yes.

[Csargo]

If you were mafia, and someone had revealed a pro-townie role pm, you would use it as well wouldnt you?

GH would have used doctor one, even though he was a luca.

Well I know your not a detective that's good enough for me. It really wouldn't matter from then on because I wouldn't trust any of the other Detective reveals unless there was really good evidence.

[Csargo]

yes.

It's from a..........:laugh4:

[pevergreen]

Well I know your not a detective that's good enough for me. It really wouldn't matter from then on because I wouldn't trust any of the other Detective reveals unless there was really good evidence.

Why dont you think im a detective?

[Csargo]

Why dont you think im a detective?

Unless your a really big liar and somehow got a townie PM then....well then you'de be a mafioso most likely.

[pevergreen]

Well no one is letting me prove myself. Anyway, when does this phase end?

[Csargo]

Well no one is letting me prove myself. Anyway, when does this phase end?

Why have you signed a contract with the devil pever?:deal: :end:

[pevergreen]

I didnt, i signed one with....with...ill think of someone...Zoiberg! Thats it!

yey for zoidberg!

[Csargo]

I didnt, i signed one with....with...ill think of someone...Zoiberg! Thats it!

yey for zoidberg!

Your weird periods inbetween you words is a sure sign of guilt.

[pevergreen]

What can i say? I love Zoidberg!

Why have you signed a contract with the devil pever?

Im not aware of any devil-ish behaviour.

[Csargo]

What can i say? I love Zoidberg!


Im not aware of any devil-ish behaviour.

I don't know your avatar is looking pretty devilish to me.:mean:

[pevergreen]

Whats wrong with my Avatar?

Looks better than your Hippie Jesus.

[Csargo]

Whats wrong with my Avatar?

Looks better than your Hippie Jesus.

Don't insult my Avatar like you know him.:no: You've sunk to a new low with that one.

I have recieved some information about your claims and you are guilty.

[pevergreen]

Why are you receiving infomation when you're dead?


You've sunk to a new low with that one.
How? you said what you though my avatar looked like, im saying what i think your avatar looks like.

[Csargo]

Why are you receiving infomation when you're dead?

Why not? Who says I can't investigate after I'm dead?

[ByzantineKnight]

Moros. Pevergreen was protected... Byzantine Knight "accidentally" said that so maybe the called of the kill at the last moment. Or maybe Pevergreen's a luca or even a Don... he ordered his luca to investigate me... and he could post the results.. claiming to be a detective that has done his job...

I accidentally posted that, I wanted to PM you but I forgot, anyway It would serve no purpose for me if I posted that.


Oh btw... I don't believe it was Kralizec... why should you be afraid of a dead person. Also you lied about not getting your rolePM

Because mabye Kralizec has surviving family members (unless the three Mafia killed to date are all from the same family)

I would like to offer my apology to luigi VI di Fatlington, for falsely accusing him, I was sure you sent it. Unless Andres is Lying...

Vote: Abstain
(I don't understand what's going on anymore)

pevergreen - 4 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
luigi VI di Fatlington - 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 2 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

EDIT: Added myself to the count

[CountArach]

That gives the Mafia a detective role PM so they can claim it later. Bad idea, to me at least.


No, I meant the most recent PM Seamus sent you regarding who you investigated. If you give us that, then there may be more people willing to believe you.

[Kommodus]

My original suspect didn't pan out, so for now,

Vote: Abstain

I'm going to echo CountArach's request for the investigation result PMs from pevergreen.

Also, question for Sasaki: you say you participated in townie groups. Were they all protection groups, or were some of them killing groups? According to the rules, a townie who has participated in a successful killing will show up as "criminal" in detective investigations.

[Lord Winter]

Things are a little chaotic now with finals still have two pages to go
vote abstain

[Xiahou]

It's truly dizzying to keep up with this thread. However, I think pevergreen is looking very much like he's got himself a pro-mafia role.

vote: pevergreen

pevergreen - 5 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
luigi VI di Fatlington - 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 4 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

My original suspect didn't pan out, so for now,

Vote: Abstain

I'm going to echo CountArach's request for the investigation result PMs from pevergreen.

Also, question for Sasaki: you say you participated in townie groups. Were they all protection groups, or were some of them killing groups? According to the rules, a townie who has participated in a successful killing will show up as "criminal" in detective investigations.

No killing groups.

[pevergreen]

Results from Night 3 Investigations:

Sasaki Kojiro shows as Criminal
The Stranger shows as Innocent

There.

[Lord Winter]

I don't buy it peevergreen. Why all this reluctance to show the pm in the first place? Surly it would be a simple matter to cut and past? Would not the only reason for your hesitation be that you did not have the pm's?

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Pevergreen

pevergreen - 6 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Destroyer of Hope)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
luigi VI di Fatlington - 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 3 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[Csargo]

There.

How did you investigate two people?

[Papewaio]

Vote: pevergreen

pevergreen - 7 ((Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Destroyer of Hope, Papewaio)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
luigi VI di Fatlington - 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 3 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[ByzantineKnight]

How did you investigate two people?

Can't Detectives Investigate two people?

EDIT: Papewaio you have the list wrong

pevergreen - 7 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope)
AndresTheCunning - 4 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
luigi VI di Fatlington - 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 3 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[Warluster]

You can investigate two people a night ( Cant you? )
I feel reluctant to believe that so-called 'PM' you put up Pevergreen, if it was a real PM, then wouldn't it have Seamus's full title? And why would you just 'Throw' out the info?

[Csargo]

Can't Detectives Investigate two people?

EDIT: Papewaio you have the list wrong

pevergreen - 7 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
luigi VI di Fatlington - 1 (Omanes Alexandrapolites)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 4 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

Ah yes forgot about that.

[Redleg]

Lets call this message The Patsy Lashes Out

Going back to the post that initially analysis the message from Andres we have a list of names that could be complete or not complete based upon how many people were on this list.

Beirut -lynched
Byzantine Knight
Cowhead
Doc Bean
Hepcat
Hughtower
Ichigo - suicide
Ignoramus
Kommandus
Kralizec – lynched turns out to be a Don
Pevergreen
Proletariat
Redleg
Reenk Roink
Sasaki Kojiro
Sir Moody
The Stranger
Ultrawar
Zalmoxis
Banquo's Ghost
Sigurd Fafnesbane
General Handkerchief – murdered


Then we take General Handkerchief’s claim about who was suppose to be mafia. Given that we know now that he was a Luca.

Reenk Roink
Redleg
Beirut waiting on results of final autopsy
Stig – murdered but informed was a criminal not mafia


Edit:
So given the nature of this information and the status of General Handerchief maybe we should ignore his claims. The release of the autosphy after the next night phase will shed light on General Handerchief's claim. For now we know that he was wrong on one.

General Hankerchief has played us all for Patsy's with this claim.

Then from Stig’s Post

Dutch Guy
Krazilec
Doc Bean
Moras
The Stranger
Stig - not on list.

Also in General Handkercheif post he also provides other names and a few claims.

Kagemusha - is claimed to be a wiseguy
Pannonian - is claimed to have known GH was a doctor
Caius Flaminius - might have been told by Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane - claimed by GH to be a townie kill group

Now lets take some other information pieces that have been posted in the thread.:


There was a misstep – by one individual in his post that he attempted to correct, but its not a very good one.


Seamus would'nt add him to one family, it would be unfair to the others, mabye if there was three.

If he was added to my family I would know about it.

I think this is wrong

beirut-mafia
kralizec-mafia

Kralizec might be mafia, but beirut is probably not. I think it was a frame up.

EDIT: By family I mean if i was part of a mafia family (as opposed to a townie family)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1397978&postcount=836

Was this a mistake in explaining a position, or was it stumble, revealing a role, and then an attempt to hide that stumble.

Then there was this little exchange between three individuals

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1398444&postcount=873

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1398448&postcount=874

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1398452&postcount=875

I wonder if The Stranger, ByzantineKnight, or Caius Flaminius would care to enlighten what was edited out of the posts so quickly?

Now there are a few other's that might have played me for a Patsy but I will address them later. I hate to see a bandwagon begin to roll without this little exchange being explained in just a tad more detail.

And then I just love the two accusations PM to me about being mafia that was sent to me. I wonder what [b]MRD's[b] autosphy is going to show? Based upon that autosphy I just might have a candidate for a lynching - either myself, or someone that is attempting to misdirect and mislead. Only time will tell.

[ByzantineKnight]

I wonder if The Stranger, ByzantineKnight, or Caius Flaminius would care to enlighten what was edited out of the posts so quickly?

Stig could tell you as well, Someone asked what we should do to keep him alive. I accidentally mentioned (in the thread) that there was a protection group for pevergreen.

EDIT: And about my misclarification:


Was this a mistake in explaining a position, or was it stumble, revealing a role, and then an attempt to hide that stumble.

I was born in Ohio and at around 6 months later I we moved to Canada where we lived for a few years. At 6 years old we moved to the Phillipines and lived there for 6 months. When I was around 7 we moved to India, we have been living here (on and off) for 8 years, I think some of you will agree, I might not have had a very easy time adjusting to moving so often (every 6 months we have to leave the country for a day or so). I also think that growing up in so many different cultures might have had an adverse affect on my social skills (to say nothing of my spelling), sometimes I respond in the way people would in India and offend people, sometimes it is the opposite.
But my point is that I do not communicate in the same way as some of you and react differentaly.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I have my suspicions, but for now I change my vote:
Unvote: luigi VI di Fatlington
Vote: Abstain

For now I don't know who to vote for. I fear pevergreen being mafia, but I need more evidence before I wish him to be lynched.

[The Stranger]

I vote Pevergreen for now. Why? First he said I was Criminal and later in the PM I'm shown as Innocent. Also... that's not how a detective PM seamus sends you looks like.


Originally Posted by Seamus
Results from Night 3 Investigations:

Sasaki Kojiro shows as Criminal
The Stranger shows as Innocent

Vote: Pevergreen

Also, I'd like to call Doc_Bean to the stand, PLEASE, what is your role? Are you a townie?

To redleg, BK posted that Pevergreen had protection. CAius quoted and said he was stupid. I tolde them to edit their posts. Maybe Pever wasnt attacked because mafia saw that, or maybe he's a Made. which i believe now.

pevergreen - 8 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope)
AndresTheCunning - 4 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 4 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Kommodus, Omanes Alexandrapolites)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[Pindar]

I don't buy it peevergreen. Why all this reluctance to show the pm in the first place? Surly it would be a simple matter to cut and past? Would not the only reason for your hesitation be that you did not have the pm's?

I'm convinced.

Vote: Pevergreen


pevergreen - 9 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 4 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[The Stranger]

pevergreen - 9 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar)
AndresTheCunning - 4 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 4 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[CountArach]

Also... that's not how a detective PM seamus sends you looks like.

So how do you know what a detective PM looks? Would you care to show us exactly?

[ByzantineKnight]

Also... that's not how a detective PM seamus sends you looks like.

I am almost sure now that he(pevergreen) is mafia, just one clairification, how do you know what a detective PM looks like??

[CountArach]

I am almost sure now that he(pevergreen) is mafia, just one clairification, how do you know what a detective PM looks like??

I'm starting to lean towards the idea that they are both Mafia, or that one is, but the other is a Wise Guy or townie working with the mafia.

[The Stranger]

because I got shown one true an intracable email... I told you that Beirut was a made! How do you think I know...

[The Stranger]

If your saying I'm a townie working for the mafia you havent been more wrong in your entire life.

I'm shown innocent in his investigations remember... Ive proven I'm pro-town enough by now... I'll show you the beirut mail... nothing more...

[CountArach]

because I got shown one true an intracable email... I told you that Beirut was a made! How do you think I know...

We don't know what Beirut was... we still haven't got the results of the Autopsy.

[The Stranger]

well... youll hear soon... and I'll prove you right.

[CountArach]

well... youll hear soon... and I'll prove you right.

Then we shall see.

And by prove me right, you do realise I am leaning towards you being Mafia, don't you?

[The Stranger]

Well, frankly... I don't give a ****.

There are to many people that KNOW that I'm a townie, Pro-Town Townie.

[Ituralde]

Well that was some inconclusive gibberish on the last few pages.
I don't buy pevergreens PM and reveal, but I would have still prefered to prove his investigations wrong before lynching him. I'm reluctant to put another vote on a possible detective and I guess it's also too late to lynch Sasaki or The Stranger to verify pevergreens investigations.

Vote: Abstain

pevergreen - 9 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar)
AndresTheCunning - 4 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

[Warluster]

pevergreen - 9 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, ,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)
just fixing up the list, I also voted for Andres a while back.

[Pannonian]

I wonder what [b]MRD's[b] autosphy is going to show?

If it helps, my very first conversation in this game was with MRD, his PM arriving soon after my townie PM. Here it is with the subsequent replies.



Tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate. I can't kill anyone until we get another wiseguy/made. I suggest Hanky spend his turns protecting you.

snip email address
What info did you get in your PM? I don't really want to commit myself until I know more about what's going on. It's the first time I've played one of the more complicated games.


I'm a wiseguy, but I don't know who the others are except you, and GH is the doctor. I need 2 other wiseguys to make kills, or 3 townies for a townie kill. I don't want to join a family unless I have to, I'd rather us wiseguys start a new family

Based on this, I PMed GH.




I know this seems a bit forward or even rude to ask, but are you a doctor? I've received info from somewhere indicating you might be something of the sort.

Ugh, I thought I told Kage not to tell anybody...

Yeah, I'm a doc. Please don't broadcast it though. What about you?
Would you believe me if I told you I'm a townie? BTW, was it only Kagemusha that you told? What is Kage?



Well, you're obviously fishing for roles so I don't really trust you, but nobody trusts anyone in this game so I guess it's okay.

As far as telling others, I think I only told Kage (he claims he is a wiseguy btw), but there might have been someone else. Kage sticks out.
It's my first try at a more complicated game (my only two were M3 and M5), so I'm cautious until I can figure it out. I've had someone approach me claiming to be a wiseguy, so I'm confused already.

Just snipping for readability's sake.

Based on that, I later tried to organise a protection squad with MRD and Kage. Unsuccessfully, as MRD replied too late to coordinate efforts (I PMed MRD with the direct proposal but not Kage, since I'd had direct contact with MRD), while Kage only replied to my general proposal "Wanna turn clean?" a day or so after the deadline.

So I was played like a fool by GH, but what are MRD and Kage?

[Pannonian]

Stig could tell you as well, Someone asked what we should do to keep him alive. I accidentally mentioned (in the thread) that there was a protection group for pevergreen.

I can confirm this, and this is partly why my suspicions of The_Stranger have lessened. That said, a Don can participate in protection groups, so that doesn't clear him entirely.

[Death Match]

I am sorry, my stupid internet browser keeps shutting down as soon as i have enough time to post on my upcoming game. question: am I dead?

[Ironside]

As The_Stranger already noticed.

pevergreens investigation post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1399308&postcount=977)

tagged under the spoil tags in case it gets edited.


Well, sorry for that, I have been asleep. Its only 10 am now.

I investigated 2 people.

The Stranger obviously and while some people were saying "Motep" or "Andres" i really didnt trust Sasaki.

The Stranger Result: Criminal (But it could be one of the townie ones)
Sasaki Result: Criminal

Sasaki? Criminal? Thats enough for me
Why am i voting Sasaki?


I dont think Sasaki's win conditions allow me to live

Vote: Sasaki


Results from Night 3 Investigations:

Sasaki Kojiro shows as Criminal
The Stranger shows as Innocent

Based on this I'm saying that pevergreen is lying, as he's supposed to been quoting Seamus and is commenting The_Stranger results as criminal in the first. Thus no accidental mis-match on the writing, but in the mind.

I would still prefer to make some certification first, but this is a too comprimising evidence. Think about it, a person who's life depends on truth lies...

Vote: pevergreen

pevergreen you'll need a very good explaination for this to survive.

pevergreen - 10 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar, Ironside)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, ,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

His interest of seeing Sasaki dead is interesting though, Sasaki is obviously considered important (not sure if it's pro-townie or rival mafia though).

[HughTower]

Results from Night 3 Investigations:

Sasaki Kojiro shows as Criminal
The Stranger shows as Innocent.

There.


You can investigate two people a night ( Cant you? )
I feel reluctant to believe that so-called 'PM' you put up Pevergreen, if it was a real PM, then wouldn't it have Seamus's full title? And why would you just 'Throw' out the info?


I am almost sure now that he(pevergreen) is mafia, just one clairification, how do you know what a detective PM looks like??


So how do you know what a detective PM looks? Would you care to show us exactly?

Warluster is right - Seamus' full title is missing from the quote. Also, Seamus abbreviated to N3 in his PM title to me, & there is one more stylistic point of difference which I'll keep to myself for the moment, but which is easily discernable for those who look carefully. Also, NB, I'm not comparing it with a investigation PM specifically - I cannot claim to be more important than I am.

If The Stranger has access to a detective M on Beirut, well that's fine too. I don't think he should show it, but we should just wait for his autopsy to reveal his nature. I think my rationale should be enough to convince people of pevergreen's guilt (of either obstructing the town or worse).

Vote: pevergreen

pevergreen - 11 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar, Ironside, HughTower)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, ,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)

EDIT: to change vote record after synchronous posting with Ironside

[HughTower]

I wonder what [b]MRD's[b] autosphy is going to show?


If it helps, my very first conversation in this game was with MRD, his PM arriving soon after my townie PM. Here it is with the subsequent replies.






Tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate. I can't kill anyone until we get another wiseguy/made. I suggest Hanky spend his turns protecting you.

snip email address

What info did you get in your PM? I don't really want to commit myself until I know more about what's going on. It's the first time I've played one of the more complicated games.

I'm sorry, but I read this as MRD being a made, Hanky being the Luca (which we know), & you the Don. Why else would MRD say this, and the only people who know others' roles at the start of the game are scum?

Surely this is a monumental cock-up on your behalf?

[Pannonian]

I'm sorry, but I read this as MRD being a made, Hanky being the Luca (which we know), & you the Don. Why else would MRD say this, and the only people who know others' roles at the start of the game are scum?

Surely this is a monumental cock-up on your behalf?
I read it as MRD being a wise guy looking to form a kill squad at the start of the game. I don't know where he got the information from about GH being a doctor, but evidently it was as accurate as his information that I was a wise guy/made/whatever. I was puzzled by this question out of the blue (see Ichigo's post for how bare the townie PM is), hence I asked him where on earth he got the leads from, whether other roles come with more information than a bare description of what they do. Can other wise guys confirm this or otherwise?

[pevergreen]

Tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate. I can't kill anyone until we get another wiseguy/made. I suggest Hanky spend his turns protecting you.

That to me is proof that you are a don.
Unvote; Vote: Pannonian

When i copy stuff seamus sends me, i dont always post it word for word. i cant spell the last name in his name so i always use "Seamus"

Check all of my posts. Anywere, its always "Seamus"


pevergreen - 11 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar, Ironside, HughTower)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, ,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 1 (Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)
Pannonian - 1 (pevergreen)


Bah! Looks like i am to die.

[Orb]

Vote:Pevergreen

Because I feel like it.

[HughTower]

I read it as MRD being a wise guy looking to form a kill squad at the start of the game. I don't know where he got the information from about GH being a doctor, but evidently it was as accurate as his information that I was a wise guy/made/whatever. I was puzzled by this question out of the blue (see Ichigo's post for how bare the townie PM is), hence I asked him where on earth he got the leads from, whether other roles come with more information than a bare description of what they do. Can other wise guys confirm this or otherwise?

MRD says ' ....tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate...'. This is not what a wiseguy would say, it is what a Made would to his Don. He would only say this to you if he already knew who were. Hanky is going to spend his turns protecting you, because that is his primary role as a Luca. It is important for them to recruit a wiseguy to kill, because a Made can't do it on his own, & the Luca is protecting the Don. So, these are the 4 possible explanations:


You've either screwed up, my friend, & you are the Don.
MRD mis-read his PM from Seamus & thought his Don was you (maybe a pevergreen or Pannionian similar name mix-up?)
This PM is not authentic - but, why you would fake it, I have no idea?
Seamus told MRD that you were his Don, but sent you a townie PM, & cocked-up his otherwise immaculately organised game


On to pevergreen,

Personally, I don't believe this next quote or think it is relevant.


When i copy stuff seamus sends me, i dont always post it word for word. i cant spell the last name in his name so i always use "Seamus"

If I was PMing to save my skin, I'd be extra careful about making it look real. Also, Seamus used N3 in his post to me, not "Night 3", & I don't like the "shows as" phrase in the message. It's too clumsy for Seamus.

In my view, pevergreen is lying & should be lynched. Re: Pannionian, explanation 1 or 2 are most likely. Does anyone else have information that might lead them to cast suspicion on him (or MRD)?

[Moros]

Unvote: adresthecunning
vote: pevergreen

I don't think I need to elaborate.

[The Stranger]

Pevergreen is going down, today... Pannonian will be investigated.. BUT!

If he is really a don hell be shown as Innocent... so...

He really wants me dead... Why? Because I'm a danger to the town? I've never been... and if I acted like a danger before I righted my mistake.

The reason he wants me dead because if there is still a slightest chance that I can turn out to be a don, I'm of a rival gang and I must die. He doesnt wants to kill me because he thinks i'm protected by a luca... So he tries to get me lynched....

ALSO I LIKE TO CALL DOC_BEAN TO THE STAND.

Please tell me what role you have? Are you Pro Town? Are you a Townie, Wise Guy or a Mafia?

Be honest or you'll be DEAD!

[The Stranger]

pevergreen - 13 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Orb, Moros, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar, Ironside, HughTower)
AndresTheCunning - 4 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 1 (Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)
Pannonian - 1 (pevergreen)

[Stig]

Tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate. I can't kill anyone until we get another wiseguy/made. I suggest Hanky spend his turns protecting you.
That to me is proof that you are a don.
Well in that case you can (note: can) be wrong ... Wise Guys can gang up with Made's too

just so you know

[The Stranger]

But he is a made I think. Because GH protected him.

[HughTower]

Well in that case you can (note: can) be wrong ... Wise Guys can gang up with Made's too

just so you know

We do know that.

The point is, Stig, that MRD is asking him who to recruit or investigate, that he needs someone else to make a killing team (either a wiseguy or another Made), & he already know that Hanky is a Luca. The Don, who MRD, rightly or wrongly, thinks is Pannionian, is who is been asked for orders.

The question is whose mistake is this evidence, Pannionian for accidentally revealing it, or, MRD, for mis-reading his PMs.

[Pannonian]

MRD says ' ....tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate...'. This is not what a wiseguy would say, it is what a Made would to his Don. He would only say this to you if he already knew who were. Hanky is going to spend his turns protecting you, because that is his primary role as a Luca. It is important for them to recruit a wiseguy to kill, because a Made can't do it on his own, & the Luca is protecting the Don. So, these are the 4 possible explanations:


You've either screwed up, my friend, & you are the Don.
MRD mis-read his PM from Seamus & thought his Don was you (maybe a pevergreen or Pannionian similar name mix-up?)
This PM is not authentic - but, why you would fake it, I have no idea?
Seamus told MRD that you were his Don, but sent you a townie PM, & cocked-up his otherwise immaculately organised game


I have no idea why MRD wrote his PM in that way, except perhaps that as a first time player he was trying to get into the mood of things, not knowing that plain argumentativeness is the preferred style here. But look at the substance of it, and you'll see that I asked him where he got the information fom without revealing anything about myself (which was the only sensible thing to do at the start of the game). After some probing, he eventually admits he's a wise guy, and doesn't know what everyone else except for me, which judging by his language I assume he thought was a fellow wise guy, and GH, whom he thought was a doctor.

There was a mix-up earlier in the game, when someone mixed up the names of Proletariat and pevergreen to her ire, drawing the remark that Pannonian wouldn't have been as bad as at least our names both begin with capital letters. If MRD did indeed mix us up, then I invite the Lady to join me in a double suicide. If I'm a townie as I say, this wouldn't matter much as I share in a town victory whether or not I survive, and there's a chance of taking a mafioso with me. If I'm a Don as you say, this will much reduce my gang's chances of winning. Just let Proletariat agree to the deal in this thread and kill herself, and I will do likewise the following round.

[The Stranger]

Why the following round?

[Pannonian]

Why the following round?
How else am I going to verify she's killed herself?

[The Stranger]

You can BOTH do it this round... If she does it this round... how is she going to be assured you do it next...?

[HughTower]

I have no idea why MRD wrote his PM in that way, except perhaps that as a first time player he was trying to get into the mood of things, not knowing that plain argumentativeness is the preferred style here. But look at the substance of it, and you'll see that I asked him where he got the information fom without revealing anything about myself (which was the only sensible thing to do at the start of the game). After some probing, he eventually admits he's a wise guy, and doesn't know what everyone else except for me, which judging by his language I assume he thought was a fellow wise guy, and GH, whom he thought was a doctor.

There was a mix-up earlier in the game, when someone mixed up the names of Proletariat and pevergreen to her ire, drawing the remark that Pannonian wouldn't have been as bad as at least our names both begin with capital letters. If MRD did indeed mix us up, then I invite the Lady to join me in a double suicide. If I'm a townie as I say, this wouldn't matter much as I share in a town victory whether or not I survive, and there's a chance of taking a mafioso with me. If I'm a Don as you say, this will much reduce my gang's chances of winning. Just let Proletariat agree to the deal in this thread and kill herself, and I will do likewise the following round.

It's a nice offer, but suspiciously impractical. Prole has been very inactive in this game so far (4 days since last post). There is no good reason why you have to do it together - if you're innocent, suicide yourself now, & be done with it, so the town can move on.

If what you say is true, then, of course, MRD realised his error, changed his tune & called GH a doctor - anyone would. In his first message, it is categoric - he's not roleplaying, he's addressing you as his Don, & naming GH as Luca. Full stop (or "period", for our chums over the pond).

If it is MRD's mistake initially, it is your mistake in making that reveal (or not understanding fully what it meant), & therefore drastic action is needed by yourself.

[AggonyDuck]

I have no idea why MRD wrote his PM in that way, except perhaps that as a first time player he was trying to get into the mood of things, not knowing that plain argumentativeness is the preferred style here.

MRD is not a first time player...

[The Stranger]

Agreed.

[Pannonian]

You can BOTH do it this round... If she does it this round... how is she going to be assured you do it next...?
If I make this offer and she publicly accepts it and carries out her end of it, but I do not, my word will be worthless from then on and I might as well be dead for the purposes of this game.

You're thinking of survival as the point of this game. It's not. The aim is to ensure your group wins, whether or not you personally survive. Survival means you still have an active stake in the game, and can vote. But survival for survival's sake is not the point, if you harm your side's cause in the process. If you remain alive but no-one will believe you any more, you can no longer direct your cause and you might as well be dead. In that vein, in games iwth 1 detective and 2 mafia, it is considered a worthwhile gambit for the detective to reveal as soon as he gets the identity of one mafioso, even though this guarantees his murder the following round, as that action favours the town more than holding on to the information and risking being murdered before getting the chance to find the other mafioso. In the same vein Reenk sacrificed himself in Mafia V to ease the passage for Seamus, although that worked a bit too well and backfired.

I can't coordinate the action with Prole because there are no provisions for it in the game. We send in our orders, and we read about the results the following morning. Therefore we'll have to do so separately. As the more active player, I have more to lose by fulfilling my part of the bargain but being left by the other, so I invite her to do so first and I'll follow.

[Pannonian]

MRD is not a first time player...
What's he played before? I've only been in Mafia III and V, and I don't remember him.

[The Stranger]

Oh well... whatever you want... But I still don't understand why Prole has to go...

Why don't you go alone then?...

[HughTower]

If I make this offer and she publicly accepts it and carries out her end of it, but I do not, my word will be worthless from then on and I might as well be dead for the purposes of this game.

You're thinking of survival as the point of this game. It's not. The aim is to ensure your group wins, whether or not you personally survive. Survival means you still have an active stake in the game, and can vote. But survival for survival's sake is not the point, if you harm your side's cause in the process. If you remain alive but no-one will believe you any more, you can no longer direct your cause and you might as well be dead. In that vein, in games iwth 1 detective and 2 mafia, it is considered a worthwhile gambit for the detective to reveal as soon as he gets the identity of one mafioso, even though this guarantees his murder the following round, as that action favours the town more than holding on to the information and risking being murdered before getting the chance to find the other mafioso. In the same vein Reenk sacrificed himself in Mafia V to ease the passage for Seamus, although that worked a bit too well and backfired.

I can't coordinate the action with Prole because there are no provisions for it in the game. We send in our orders, and we read about the results the following morning. Therefore we'll have to do so separately. As the more active player, I have more to lose by fulfilling my part of the bargain but being left by the other, so I invite her to do so first and I'll follow.

Let's not get sidetracked. Prole has nothing to do with this accusation, other than beginning with 'P'. That confusion is pure speculation on my part.

If you are town, you have to kill yourself.

[Pannonian]

It's a nice offer, but suspiciously impractical. Prole has been very inactive in this game so far (4 days since last post). There is no good reason why you have to do it together - if you're innocent, suicide yourself now, & be done with it, so the town can move on.

It wasn't me who came up with that explanation of mistaken identity. You suggested pevergreen, who's going to die anyway, while I recall Prole from earlier in this game.


If what you say is true, then, of course, MRD realised his error, changed his tune & called GH a doctor - anyone would. In his first message, it is categoric - he's not roleplaying, he's addressing you as his Don, & naming GH as Luca. Full stop (or "period", for our chums over the pond).

If it is MRD's mistake initially, it is your mistake in making that reveal (or not understanding fully what it meant), & therefore drastic action is needed by yourself.
Erm, if GH is my Luca, why did he accuse me of fishing for information? My reveal was to show that MRD was most likely a wise guy, as Redleg was wondering what he was. I quoted my subsequent conversation with GH so Redleg could have some more information with which to shed light on GH's reveal.

[Pannonian]

Let's not get sidetracked. Prole has nothing to do with this accusation, other than beginning with 'P'. That confusion is pure speculation on my part.

If you are town, you have to kill yourself.
Wanna go together? I'm willing.

[The Stranger]

Is this fase about to end? Because... It's getting a bit boring now...

[The Stranger]

Wanna go together? I'm willing.

I dont like what you're trying to do. You're prolly a wiseguy, working with mafia. And you're trying to take with you as much Townies as possible into your grave.

Why do 2 players have to go? As you said, you have no more use. Your words not mine, but do not try to take away townies who do have purpose.

[pevergreen]

Yeah, hurry up and lynch me. Theres no way i can convince 13 odd people.

:shame: Sad way to lose a detective.

On the plus side, im trying to put some of my own material into my death.

My Final Speech.

Should be fun! I might get to wear a cloak! Like Medivh in Warcraft. Or the Emperor in Star Wars.

Happy Town Win..in the unlikely case you do win.

Just for fun:
ToS
FoS
HoS
All at Pannonian.

[Cowhead418]

I Vote: Pevergreen because of his mistake on revealing Stranger's investigation result, GH's support for him earlier, and his changing stories. If you are actually a detective (though a bad one), we will find out later and be able to make sense of your results.

[Pannonian]

I dont like what you're trying to do. You're prolly a wiseguy, working with mafia. And you're trying to take with you as much Townies as possible into your grave.

Why do 2 players have to go? As you said, you have no more use. Your words not mine, but do not try to take away townies who do have purpose.
Well, I don't expect anyone to coopt me into any more protection groups from now on, so I'm just going to sleep during the night until either Sasaki or Kommodus is dead. Those two are Mafia heavyweight whom others are wary of tangling with, giving them perfect cover as Mafia if they were (see Kommodus in Mafia III, or Reenk and Seamus' comments in Mafia V). I don't have any proof they are Mafia, but for this reason alone I am wary of them. Sasaki, while keeping up his post count, has been less savage than usual. I've assumed this is because he's running his own game, and this will change once that ends.

If either of those two go, I will willingly follow the next round. Even if you ignore GH's distrust of me, my willingness to die should be proof enough that I'm not Mafia, given that there are far more pro-townies who can actively thwart the Mafia than pro-Mafia. But if that's not enough, any of my fellow bigmouths can take me up on my offer and let our autopsies speak for themselves. Preferably Sasaki or Kommodus, but any active player will do, excepting The_Stranger, Motep and pevergreen.

[Sigurd]

*WTF!!!!!

How am I going to get ajour with what is going on in this game?? There is just too much spam ... and ... and
DAMN!!! Over a 1000 posts and I have no clue if I am dead, which round this is etc...
I guess this game is for the REALLY dedicated.

I hope you keep the score here Seamus because I am going to shamelessly vote with THE bandwagon.

Vote: pevergreeen




*World Taboo-word Foundation

[pevergreen]

What bandwagon, ive got nearly half the entire games votes.
Theres no way i can convince my way out of this, the only thing to do is die stylishly.

@Redleg, choose a really cool way for me to die.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Hey, if some people unvote Pevergreen and change to Andres, so we get a tied vote, then Redleg can hang two baddies simultanously! :idea2:


pevergreen - 13 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Orb, Moros, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar, Ironside, HughTower)
AndresTheCunning - 4 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 1 (Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)
Pannonian - 1 (pevergreen)



I do not think it is wise for anybody to make any rash decisions about Pannonian. That includes you, Pannonian. Let us not get carried away here. If you are innocent, then it's silly to commit suicide just to prove your point. If you're scum, you'll bereft the town the pleasure of hanging you ourselves.

[Proletariat]

I haven't been posting much thanks to real life, but your idea Pannonian is too silly for me to take seriously. I won't be killing myself because our user names both begin with a capitol P, sorry. Investigate me or lynch me, you can off yourself.

Also, anyone else get an interesting PM from Andres last night? A few rounds ago he PMed me to vote for Kralizec and I'd get an 'in' with his family. I was jumping on the bandwagon against Kral anyway, so I wrote back saying I wouldn't be a part of it unless I knew a more about his family or what his goals were. Yesterday he writes back saying basically 'vote for pevergreen, or I'll quote your response in the game thread.'

I thought that was a pretty poor attempt at blackmail, but it's interesting that Andres wanted Kral dead badly, and now has it in for pevergreen. pevergreen looks plenty guilty to me anyhow, don't really see the need for Andres to go around garnering votes.

Anyhow, the last few pages I just had to skim because of time, wanted to try and get a word in before the round's over. Will come back to this by lunch or this evening, hopefully

Vote: No vote

[pevergreen]

Hmm Luigi has a point.

Look at it this way:

1. You can get rid of me
2. You can get rid of Andres (if you want to)

Hey 2 in one turn isnt bad.

Good Night all :bow:

[The Stranger]

Andres had no family at that time... hje wasn in the game... Who are you talking about.

[The Stranger]

First I want confirmation that 2 ppl at the same time can be lynched.

[Proletariat]

It was when he was PMing half the players in the game, supposedly on the behalf of some family.

[The Stranger]

Hmm well... Instead of posting no vote, vote Andres then... I like the 2 in 1 turn lynch idea

[Proletariat]

I don't think a tie really helps us, it's meant in everygame I've played that we go to another round of voting solely between the two vote leaders. If that's the way it works in Seamus' game, we might as well just kill Andres next round instead.

[Andres]

Hmm well... Instead of posting no vote, vote Andres then... I like the 2 in 1 turn lynch idea

You want me dead so badly...

Were you hoping I deleted this one too:


Vertel me nou wie die PM heeft gestuurd en welke rol je hebt. Het maakt niet uit of je mafia of townie bent.

Als je dat doe zorg ik ervoor dat je de lynchronde overleeft en daarna zal ik je beschermen.

I'll translate:

Please tell me who send you the PM and what role you have. It doesn't matter if you're mafia or townie. If you do, I'll make sure you survive the lynching, afterwards I'll protect you.

Afterwards = after day time...

Instead of keeping the information private and sending it only to you, I decided to make it public.

Tied vote on 3 = 3 hangings? Why not 10 hangings? Or 11, 12, 13...

You see, I came in new on this game. PM'ing seemed a good way to get information. As an unknown factor, I hoped to get even more curiosity then a newcomer would usually get. See what I've learned...

Tsss, tsss, tsss...

[The Stranger]

You're really picking on the wron one :P... Youre not important.

@Proletariat: Next turn we'll eat a better meal than skinny Andres.

[Caius]

You're really picking on the wron one :P... Youre not important.

@Proletariat: Next turn we'll eat a better meal than skinny Andres.
Why are you obsesed with killing?

[HughTower]

@ Pannionian, so let me get this right, on top of the evidence against you, you want either Prole, myself, Sasaki, Kommodus, or any active player (apart from TS, Motep, & pevergreen) to commit suicide with you to prove your innocence.

What? Why? It's a like a Japanese death cult... Madness, sheer madness!

A serious & founded accusation has been levelled against you - the route to innocence lies in your death. For the rest of us who just trying to do 'our jobs' & against whom there lies no evidence, it's a waste of a lynch vote or a protection group member.

Kill yourself / don't kill yourself - obviously up to you - & luigi has a good argument about the futility of sacrificial suicide - but you suggested it, not I, but only in conjunction with another innocent. It is an offer on which you are unlikely to have your bluff called, which is why you made it, & which is why you're guilty as sin.

[ByzantineKnight]

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: The Stranger

I don't hold for bloodthirsty players, this is a game trying to kill them!

[The Stranger]

I'm bloodthirsty against Mafia. I wont harm townies.

[ByzantineKnight]

I'm bloodthirsty against Mafia. I wont harm townies.

You have almost no evidence against them, you just like lynching.

[The Stranger]

No evidence...? You got to be kidding me... We'll see, after this lynchround and this night I'll give you so much evidence you won't know who to vote for.

I'll say this. Beirut: Made, MRD: Made.

[Caius]

No evidence...? You got to be kidding me... We'll see, after this lynchround and this night I'll give you so much evidence you won't know who to vote for.

I'll say this. Beirut: Made, MRD: Made.
Why you dont shop up and help the town?

[The Stranger]

What do you think I'm doing. I'm providing info so Mafia can be lynched and killed... In return I'll earn the nickname. The "Bloodthirsty" Stranger

[ByzantineKnight]

Are you on a witch hunt? You accuse anyone who moves or posts...

EDIT: 400th post!! :balloon2: :balloon2:
:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: Balloons for all!!:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

[Proletariat]

I know everyone feels that every post of their's is vital to the thread, but can we work on the signal to noise ratio a little here? When you're not on the internet all day at work, it can be hard to catch up :\

[The Stranger]

2 more phases. 2 more phases.

[Moros]

the day should be about over by now, no?

[Pannonian]

@ Pannionian, so let me get this right, on top of the evidence against you, you want either Prole, myself, Sasaki, Kommodus, or any active player (apart from TS, Motep, & pevergreen) to commit suicide with you to prove your innocence.

What? Why? It's a like a Japanese death cult... Madness, sheer madness!

A serious & founded accusation has been levelled against you - the route to innocence lies in your death. For the rest of us who just trying to do 'our jobs' & against whom there lies no evidence, it's a waste of a lynch vote or a protection group member.

Kill yourself / don't kill yourself - obviously up to you - & luigi has a good argument about the futility of sacrificial suicide - but you suggested it, not I, but only in conjunction with another innocent. It is an offer on which you are unlikely to have your bluff called, which is why you made it, & which is why you're guilty as sin.
You've left no possible way in which I can prove my innocence, and urge me to kill myself to shut me up.

1. I've carefully picked through the PMs to give as full a picture as possible, not even leaving out or change bits that might seem incriminating. I was aware this would place me under suspicion, but my stated MO throughout this game is to urge suspects to give as full an account of themselves as possible and let the town decide, and that I did. What more do you expect me to do? I volunteered the information in the hope of helping answer Redleg's questions about MRD and GH.
2. If I'm Mafia, then I will show up as criminal or guilty under investigation, unless I'm a Don. However, if I'm a Don, I've offered to off myself in exchange for someone else. Looking at the economics of it, it would not make sense for a Don to sacrifice himself so easily, as the role is so powerful (effectively unfindable by detectives), and the loss would mean a drastic reduction in the chances of the gang winning, especially if the dead GH is my Luca as you say I've tried to make this as much of a win-win situation for the town as possible, given the rules of the game, by explaining my rationale and widening the circle of people whom I'll accept into the bargain. In normal Mafia games a detective for a mafioso is considered a good exchange. Here, I'm not even specifying that a detective should die, but I'm agreeing to let anyone take me up on the offer. Yet you think this is disingenuous.
3. If you read the exchanges, you'll see that GH doesn't trust me at all, and accuses me of fishing for roles. Hardly indicative of me being the Don and GH beng my Luca.
4. I specified Kommodus and Sasaki because their MO doesn't require staying alive to work towards town victory. If they are Mafia, their reputation ensures that no-one dares challenge them for fear of being savaged. If they are townies, Kommodus' formula will continue to work even after death, while a dead Sasaki doesn't slow down as Reenk and Seamus found to their cost in Mafia V. The only caveat might be if they have active pro-town roles, which was why I asked Sasaki to reveal at the start of this round.
5. Examine my activioty in this game and see if it's consistently pro-town or consistent as a whole. If you wish, talk to others to see if their experience of me matches what you can see in the thread.

To sum up, you've left no way for me to prove my innocence. If a detective investigates me and finds me innocent, it means I'm a Don who will show up as innocent. If I'm a Don, I've made an 1 for 1 offer that any detective worth his salt would jump at (ask Crazed Rabbit in Mafia III), yet you think this is disadvantageous for the town. And you name GH as my Luca, even though the PMs show that he distrusted me and misled me. I'm going to push for Andres next round followed by Motep, but bandwagon me if you wish, as there is no way of persuading you otherwise.

[The Stranger]

I believe that GH wasnt your luca, on the other hand I also believe HughTowers idea that MRD mistaked you for Pevergreen.

Stop blablaing and Kill yourself or shut up, it will save me a headache...

[Kralizec]

Remember folks, Strangers location says:


I'm not saying you have to vote for me, I'm demanding, VOTE OR DIE!!!

[Caius]

Remember folks, Strangers location says:
I'm saying you have to vote for me, I'm not demanding, VOTE OR DIE!!!

Isnt that the location of TS?

[Pannonian]

I believe that GH wasnt your luca, on the other hand I also believe HughTowers idea that MRD mistaked you for Pevergreen.

Stop blablaing and Kill yourself or shut up, it will save me a headache...
Click on my profile and put me on ignore.

[The Stranger]

that was for the HoF actually :P... I noticed that before... but i wont bothr removing it.

[HughTower]

1. Yes you did. However, it is an absolute truth that MRD thought you were his Don when he wrote that first email, there is no other interpretation. You could have been trying to mislead the town & posted that first PM accidentally - certainly the others are not incriminating at all. Whether you made a mistake (and are the Don) or whether MRD did (& thought you were the Don) is the key question.
2. Why does there have to be a bargain? The evidence is there for a lynching, which will take place in 2 cycles time, therefore your role will be known in 4-5 cycles time. If you want your credibility back quickly so the town lwill isten to you & you can help, commit suicide now. Wanting to take a person with you reeks of desperation & vindictiveness.
3. The first email is the key here. The following PMs can be seen either, as the fakes you wanted to post (in your guilt), or, as MRD covered up his mistake & GH covered up with him, and you failed to see what he had admitted (in your innocence). It also explains GH's doctor story when he was killed.
4. I understand that rationale, but I still refer you my answer for 2.
5. With so many opposing entities, it is hard to ascertain what pro-town exactly means. Town & Mafia A might join up unwittingly against Mafia B etc.

Actually, in my initial accusation, I suggested 4 possible explanations, whittled it down to 2, & asked for input from others as to what they thought of you & MRD. Your suicide was suggested by you as a way of proving your innocence. This dead-end is of your own making, & the more you ask for a "bargain", the more it seems like guilt.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok, what's with this "you must suicide to prove your innocence thing". Hugh, I really think your on the wrong track here. The pm was quite obviously intended for a Don, if Pannonian was a don he wouldn't have posted it. From the way GH put forward pevergreen for director I'm guessing he's the don of that family. No townie should suicide to prove their innocence, it wifom for one thing (since MRD and GH are dead if Pannonian was the don he would be powerless and have no reason not to suicide), and it hurts the town and is against the spirit of the game.

I believe the stranger and pannonian are innocent. I need some new suspects.

[Moros]

oh, oh me, me, pick me! You saw me eating a spicy meat-a-ball pie. Pick me!

[The Stranger]

Sasaki, Please make your self suspicous.

[The Stranger]

I already said from the start that Pevergreen was a Don, I also said Kralizec was a Don, I was right then...

Above post... That was a joke ^ but i forget to add :laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki, Please make your self suspicous.
:saint:


IGMEO Sigurd. Historically when he's mafia he lurks.

[The Stranger]

eheheh, well... There are quite alot lurkers... lets lynch them all.

The Stranger, Verse 2, Line 10
He who doth not posth, Talketh with the devil and shall be vanquished.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm wondering where Don is as well.

[Moros]

where is not the question, who is the question. Yet where is the awser?

[The Stranger]

He was talking bout DonCorleone :P not A Don ingame.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

FYI/Reminder:

If a tie occurs in the lynch voting, the decision of who -- if anyone -- is to be lynched is solely at the discretion of the Director.

In a 3-way tie, for example, the Director could lynch 0, 1, 2, or all 3 of those having received tie votes. The Director can make this decision on any basis she/he feels and only the Gamemaster could alter it...and I am not likely to do so.:evilgrin:

[The Stranger]

:O... oh well... is this phase almost over?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

:O... oh well... is this phase almost over?

1400 EST today, so less than 55 minutes to go. Things seem mostly decided, so I've written up stuff in advance and it should cycle quickly. We'll be in night four from 1400 today to 1400 tomorrow.

Sasaki, how is it that you always have the highest post count in any mafia game. It never seems as though you're posting a lot at any one time...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I have noticed much spam from you.

@Seamus: it works out to about 3 posts per page. Not that much.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

bah, I was going to go and delete the rash of off topic posts we've had but it's too much work. Try not to post just for postings sake though.

[HughTower]

Ok, what's with this "you must suicide to prove your innocence thing". Hugh, I really think your on the wrong track here. The pm was quite obviously intended for a Don, if Pannonian was a don he wouldn't have posted it. From the way GH put forward pevergreen for director I'm guessing he's the don of that family. No townie should suicide to prove their innocence, it wifom for one thing (since MRD and GH are dead if Pannonian was the don he would be powerless and have no reason not to suicide), and it hurts the town and is against the spirit of the game.

I believe the stranger and pannonian are innocent. I need some new suspects.

He's continually suggested a double suicide to prove his innocence, not me. He's suggesting it on the knowledge that no-one will call his bluff - an empty promise. I'm saying if he wants to suicide to prove his innocence, then go ahead, it's odd to expect someone to join you, as a 'bargain'.

He won't be powerless as a lone Don - he can recruit & act as a Made.

Pevergreen might well be the Don of that family. It's one of the reasons why we're lynching him.

Either Pannionian made a mistake in posting it up, or MRD sent it to the wrong guy. Why Pannionian didn't mention or spot that he was being approached as a Don much earlier is a question worth asking. I am & shall continue to ask it.

[The Stranger]

I think MRD made the Mistake but Pannonian is most definitly suspicious.

GH is prolly Pevergreen's luca... and MRD is a made... but of which family?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And as flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite,
I saw Satan laughing with delight
The day the music died.
-- Don McClean, 1971


Sunset, Day Four:

After a few hours of pale sunlight early that morning, the gray skies had returned. Though no rain fell for a change, the faint fog off the Atlantic and thick clouds made for a dark day. As the voting session began around 6 that evening, it had faded to full dark.

Redleg addressed the assembled committee.

“As you all know, I served with the 160th field artillery during the war. I went through 4 amphibious assaults and a snot-load of fighting near Metz. I am NOT inclined to let mafia scum take over this town. I have therefore decided to employ a tried-and-true artillery solution to traitors in our own ranks. We’ll do what the Brits did in the Sepoy rebellion and strap our traitors to the muzzle of a field gun for a little send-off.”

Redleg’s expression was one of determination, not exultation.

“I’ve had one of the old “Saucy-Cans” guns on display in front of the Guard armory unplugged and quickly reconditioned. It’s deployed on the boardwalk outside this convention center. The tube’s shot out, but then again accuracy won’t be too much of a worry. Let’s get voting.”

Lots of discussion and more than a few sharp exchanges of words accompanied the voting. Pannonian was aggressively calling for people to prove their loyalty to the town while others snapped at the relative newcomer in their midst. At length, with all votes cast, Redleg silently tallied them in the front of the room – witnessed by Fermanagh’s guards – and then announced the result.

“By a margin of votes, this committee declares pevergreen to be guilty of treason against the citizens of Fatlington and hereby sentences you to immediate execution. Guards…”

“So be it,” snarled pevergreen as he stood to his feet. While standing he flicked up his hood and dropped the hem of his garments and what had appeared to be a bulky winter’s coat was revealed to be a full hooded, holocaust cloak. His face and hands were completely hidden. Clearly pevergreen had prepared for his name to be chosen. The guards paused, but then moved forward quickly to pinion his arms and march him downstairs to the boardwalk and the waiting field gun.

The entire committee trooped down after the prisoner and arrayed themselves behind the weapon. As pevergreen was brought forward, he broke free of the guards grasp – they’d become complacent with his quiet compliance – grabbed the extended lanyard of the gun and raced to a place barely 18” from the muzzle of the gun. The crowd paused; pevergreen’s “escape” had lasted no more than 10 feet, he was surrounded on all sides, and the muzzle end of a loaded field piece was not the healthiest place to go when chasing someone – especially when they could fire the gun. Pevergreen stared at the stony-faced committee and spoke:

"You killed my Luca,
you killed my Made,
and now, you seek to lynch me…

But one still remains.

Who is it you think,
Who have we missed,
We killed every Corleone…”

pevergreen’s voice grew harsher, more ominous.

“But One still remains.”

He pulled sharply on the lanyard and the field gun blasted with a harsh, barking crack. At a range of less than 18 inches, the canister round had no time for any significant dispersal, but a five-inch diameter hole was cored through pevergreen’s solar plexus so quickly that his body didn’t even move backward much. The muzzle blast instantly ignited the holocaust cloak and for a brief moment the committee stared at the figure of pevergreen, wreathed in flames from the knees up, sneering at them from the recesses of his cloak. Then pevergreen fell, leaving the committee to stare at the crumpled figure on the boardwalk as the flames slowly guttered themselves out. Night had come again.


OOC

The Butcher’s Bill to Date:

Attacked: Proletariat (N1), Sasaki Kojiro (N1), Redleg (N2), Moros (N3), theRTWGuru (N3)

Lynched: Kralizec (D2) [mafia don], Beirut (D3), pevergreen (D4)

Murdered: GeneralHankerchief (N1) [mafia luca], Stig (N2) [wise guy], AggonyDuck (N3), Major Robert Dump (N3)

Suicided: Ichigo, (D2) [townie], Tribesman (D2) [townie]

WoGged: Nobody, and please keep it that way.


Lynching Vote Tally:

pevergreen = 13 (Cowhead418, Destroyer of Hope, HughTower, Ironside, Kagemusha, Orb, Papewaio, Pindar, Moros, Sasaki Kojiro, Sigurd Fafnesbane, The Stranger, Xiahou)

Abstain = 4 (Ituralde, JimBob, Kommodus, Omanes Alexandrapolites the Idiot)

AndrestheCunning = 3 (Big King Sanctaphrax, Luigi VI di Fatlington, Warluster)

ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)

Pannonian = 1 (pevergreen)

Reenk Roink = 1 (Reenk Roink)

Sasaki Kojiro = 1 (Pannonian)

The Stranger = 1 (ByzantineKnight)

No Lynch = 1 (Caius Flaminius)

No Vote = 23 (Alexander the Pretty Good, Banquo’s Ghost, Copperhaired Berzerker, CountArach, Crazed Rabbit, Drisos, Dutch-Guy, Hepcat, Ignoramus, MarcusBrutus, Masy, Lord Motep of Kendermore, Peasant Phil, Proletariat, Redleg [director], Sir Boo, Sir Moody, theRTWGuru, Tom_Hagen, Ultrawar, Xdeathfire, Zalmoxis, AndrestheCuning)


Night 4 Begins. PM's from all and sundry please, due no later than 1400 EST 1/25/7. There are a few of you who may get wogged soon if I don't at least get a PM showing you still care. Good luck all.

[The Stranger]

:balloon2: Ladies and Gentlemen We wiped out one Mafia family, Congratz!

I suggest you copy and past this and paste it in a textfile, it makes reading it easier.

Datum Tijd Van Aan Bericht
24-1-07 14:45:46 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? hello, hello, yes yes
24-1-07 14:46:03 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW hi
24-1-07 14:46:27 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? watch in amazement as i get lynched
24-1-07 14:46:43 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW you watch or i?
24-1-07 14:47:06 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW Pfsh... you did an even worse job in defending yourself than I :P
24-1-07 14:47:19 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? lol
24-1-07 14:47:42 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW Really... you made a fatal mistake... first I was criminal... and later innocent...
24-1-07 14:47:52 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? i saw that
24-1-07 14:47:54 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? dam
24-1-07 14:48:01 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW ehhehe...
24-1-07 14:48:03 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? cant believe i didnt look over it
24-1-07 14:48:13 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW Hmm... so what was i?
24-1-07 14:48:33 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? no idea
24-1-07 14:48:50 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? kk
24-1-07 14:48:51 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW ehehhe... Knew it... yur no detective...
24-1-07 14:48:56 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? how about a deal
24-1-07 14:49:02 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW tell me
24-1-07 14:49:11 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? i reveal who i am, and my death speach
24-1-07 14:49:21 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? and you dont tell anyone, or hint to it, until im dead
24-1-07 14:49:25 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW ok
24-1-07 14:49:34 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? right
24-1-07 14:49:42 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? lets see if you can work it out off my death speech
24-1-07 14:49:49 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW spill it :)
24-1-07 14:50:05 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? "You killed my Luca, you killed my Made, your lynching me, but one still remains. Who is it you think, As you sip on your drinks. You killed all Corlones, [Omnious voice]But One still roams....[/omnious voice]"
24-1-07 14:50:13 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW Don...
24-1-07 14:50:15 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? should be drink
24-1-07 14:50:20 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW not so hard...
24-1-07 14:50:25 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? lol
24-1-07 14:50:26 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? yeah
24-1-07 14:50:41 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW You really revealed too much in our first convo...
24-1-07 14:50:45 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? meh
24-1-07 14:50:52 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? after my luca died
24-1-07 14:51:01 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW I knew it from that on... I never trusted you :P
24-1-07 14:51:08 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW Oke... I'll keep my word.
24-1-07 14:51:13 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? bloody Hanky
24-1-07 14:51:18 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? should have stayed alive longer
24-1-07 14:51:39 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW hmm... well... go any more info... and I keep my mouth shut till just before the autopsy
24-1-07 14:51:52 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? who do you think my made was?
24-1-07 14:51:57 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW Beirut
24-1-07 14:52:00 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? bah
24-1-07 14:52:01 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW or maybe MRD
24-1-07 14:52:04 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? hes another family
24-1-07 14:52:06 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW oke.
24-1-07 14:52:13 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? :bow:
24-1-07 14:52:13 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW I knew they were mafia all along
24-1-07 14:52:17 omfg thread hijack FTW Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? mrd
24-1-07 14:52:26 Tour of Honesty - So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? omfg thread hijack FTW oke...

[The Stranger]

Oh and I got this tru email... I dont know who send me this but...

here it goes. Pevergreen watch and learn, this is how Investigationresults PM from Seamus looks like...

Investiation Report:
Beirut: Criminal, Made.

[Moros]

RMD, what you got to say? You can say it was just an easy remark, but you gotta admit that TS's information has been pretty correct.

EDit: wiseguys not counted, how manny mafia do we have left?

[Pannonian]

He's continually suggested a double suicide to prove his innocence, not me. He's suggesting it on the knowledge that no-one will call his bluff - an empty promise. I'm saying if he wants to suicide to prove his innocence, then go ahead, it's odd to expect someone to join you, as a 'bargain'.

He won't be powerless as a lone Don - he can recruit & act as a Made.

Pevergreen might well be the Don of that family. It's one of the reasons why we're lynching him.

Either Pannionian made a mistake in posting it up, or MRD sent it to the wrong guy. Why Pannionian didn't mention or spot that he was being approached as a Don much earlier is a question worth asking. I am & shall continue to ask it.
Do you realise there are several contradictions in your accusations here? As for your continuing to ask the question - I'm not going to bother answering until you're going to listen to the answer and go through the logic of it, instead of trying to twist it so your conclusion that I'm guilty can be proved, whatever my answer. Suffice it to say the answer to that particular question is in the open already, for those who are willing to read. As are the answers to the other questions, and if you don't trust my answers, you can always ask other people, as I've suggested.

[The Stranger]

@Moros... MRD is dead, he has nothing to say to it :P


Family one
Pevergreen: Don (dead)
GeneralHankerchief: Luca (dead)
MRD: Made (dead)

Family two
???: Don
???: Luca
Beirut: Made (dead)

Family three
???: Don
???: Luca
???: Made

Kralizec: Don (dead)
Stig: Wise Guy (dead)

[AggonyDuck]

Kralizec was the don of Beirut's family. We lynched him due to his little mix up.

[The Stranger]

Alright... so who is their Luca? Any suggestions?

[Moros]

So we almost got the corleone family and tagatalia family...

[The Stranger]

No... wait a minute... Kralizec is Corleone Don? Then he's not of the same family as Beirut...

[Redleg]

Intertesting revalation with Pevergreen's death and his last words. He has played me for the patsy. It makes me wonder the list of contacts that he stated were townies are indeed townies. It casts a pale light on my actions, because I have been tainted by being associated with a mafia member.

More to ponder upon this deep dark night......

[Moros]

huh? wierd...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Where are you guys getting the family name information from?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Intertesting revalation with Pevergreen's death and his last words. He has played me for the patsy. It makes me wonder the list of contacts that he stated were townies are indeed townies. It casts a pale light on my actions, because I have been tainted by being associated with a mafia member.

More to ponder upon this deep dark night......

This is interesting, what was his contact list?


Also, does anyone know why the lynch description was so informative?

[Caius]

I dont know.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Also, does anyone know why the lynch description was so informative?
It could be because pevergreen no longer cared knowing he was going to die. If I was an evil criminal then I would reveal everything before my death! Also, perhaps he took the time to write it?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I suggest you copy and past this and paste it in a textfile, it makes reading it easier.


So, you were there untill the time you left? Is that right? hello, hello, yes yes
hi
watch in amazement as i get lynched
you watch or i?
Pfsh... you did an even worse job in defending yourself than I :P
lol
Really... you made a fatal mistake... first I was criminal... and later innocent...
i saw that
dam
ehhehe...
cant believe i didnt look over it
Hmm... so what was i?
no idea
kk
ehehhe... Knew it... yur no detective...
how about a deal
tell me
i reveal who i am, and my death speach
and you dont tell anyone, or hint to it, until im dead
ok
right
lets see if you can work it out off my death speech
spill it :)
"You killed my Luca, you killed my Made, your lynching me, but one still remains. Who is it you think, As you sip on your drinks. You killed all Corlones, [Omnious voice]But One still roams....[/omnious voice]"
Don...
should be drink
not so hard...
lol
yeah
You really revealed too much in our first convo...
meh
after my luca died
I knew it from that on... I never trusted you :P
Oke... I'll keep my word.
bloody Hanky
should have stayed alive longer
hmm... well... go any more info... and I keep my mouth shut till just before who do you think my made was?
Beirut
bah
or maybe MRD
hes another family
oke.
:bow:
I knew they were mafia all along
mrd
oke...

nevermind, I translated The_strangers chat convo and it seems pever did write the death speech.

[Kagemusha]

Very intresting.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Very intresting.

So what have you been up to lately Kage?

[CountArach]

Interesting, I agree, but it doesn't really reveal anything we didn't already know...

[Moros]

So what now's gonna happen. Anyone information or clues on someon being mafia. We might have been succesfull in the past but I'm having the feeling we're running low on suspects and clues...

[Kagemusha]

So what have you been up to lately Kage?

Nothing much reading the thread and listening rumours.I guess im pretty locked on place in this game.Nobody trusts me and i think im pretty soon dead.:book:

[GeneralHankerchief]

So what now's gonna happen. Anyone information or clues on someon being mafia. We might have been succesfull in the past but I'm having the feeling we're running low on suspects and clues...

*points at list*

:yes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Nothing much reading the thread and listening rumours.I guess im pretty locked on place in this game.Nobody trusts me and i think im pretty soon dead.:book:

Why does no one trust you? They have good reason not too?

[Moros]

GH's list I guess and the fact he was close to GH.

However I trust you, but not completly, hell I even doubt myself...

[The Stranger]

Pannonian and Andres are still suspicious.

@CountArach

I didnt reveal things we did not know. But we now know them for sure.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So what now's gonna happen. Anyone information or clues on someon being mafia. We might have been succesfull in the past but I'm having the feeling we're running low on suspects and clues...

I don't think any detectives have turned up dead yet. We have enough townie roles to win this easily.

Currently my plan is to coast along casually going after people until the WoG weeds out lurkers. Then we can get down to business. I'm thinking Seamus won't wrath of god those who have been active through pm but inactive in the thread. We can guess that those people will be mafia.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pannonian and Andres are still suspicious.


What's suspicious about pannonian and andres?

[Andres]

Also, anyone else get an interesting PM from Andres last night? A few rounds ago he PMed me to vote for Kralizec and I'd get an 'in' with his family. I was jumping on the bandwagon against Kral anyway, so I wrote back saying I wouldn't be a part of it unless I knew a more about his family or what his goals were. Yesterday he writes back saying basically 'vote for pevergreen, or I'll quote your response in the game thread.'

I thought that was a pretty poor attempt at blackmail, but it's interesting that Andres wanted Kral dead badly, and now has it in for pevergreen. pevergreen looks plenty guilty to me anyhow, don't really see the need for Andres to go around garnering votes.




Well, well, well. Proletariat wants me dead...

I'll tell the town some thingies...

Just a reminder : my time zone is GMT +1 (Brussels, Paris)

I PM'd Proletariat on the 24th of January at 9:16 am

At that time, the vote tally was as follows:



I'm convinced.

Vote: Pevergreen


pevergreen - 9 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 4 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)


9 for pevergreen - 5 for me. Seamus posted that this day would en at 14h00 his timezone, this means at 20h00 for me. Still 11 hours to go and it was not sure pevergreen would be lynched. So I wanted a bandwagon by the time the players of the other timezons popped up.

Why did I want pevergreen to die so eagerly?

In tempore non suspecto (when I was not yet participating in the game) Kralizec informed me he was 90 % sure pevergreen was mafia (from another family). After seeing his suspicious "investigation results" I was convinced he was mafia.

So I pm'd Proletariat this at 9.16 am:


1. Jump on the bandwagon and vote pevergreen
2. pm me your role description.


I assume you don't want this to appear in the Capo thread, do you?

What was this "this"? Well it was a pm Proletariat sent to me in tempore non suspecto (to be precisely the 19th of January at 19:29) to be deliverd at my "mafia contact", id est Kralizec

Here is the pm:



Hello Proletariat,

I apologize for the condescending tone, I didn't mean it like that. I did mean to let you in once you've started to kill for us. I also apologize for what Ichigo did, I messed up the PMs so that he went after you.
If you're willing to forgive me, we need your help pretty badly.
Reenk Roink is one of my potential recruits who I've been talking to. He's (almost) tied with Krazilec when it comes to votes so the result is a little uncertain. If Krazilec is lynched he'll be the scapegoat for this PM episode. Vote for him and I'll bring you into our family.

Signed,
A mafioso


To the mafioso,

No need to apologize, I was trying to get a rise out of the mysterious group that contacted so many players, nothing was meant by what I said in the thread.

I have placed my vote on Kral and willl leave it there for now, but I'm still a little skeptical about what I'm getting into here. What family is this? What's your faction's goal? How can I help?

prole[/QUOTE]

Now, why would Kralizec have asked for Proletariat to vote for him? Check this thread and specifically the posts made by that time. Things were going pretty bad for Kralizec. He was about to get lynched. He thought Proletariat didn't want to cooperate and thus he thought I'll say to vote Kralizec and then she will vote for somebody else. Apparently Proletariat was willing to cooperate with the mafia and she voted Kralizec... Don Kralizec gambled and lost.

To prove it was Kralizec who wrote the legendary PM's, I'll tell you this :

Kralizec was surprised that I had joined the game and he wrote this to me:


Je speelt nu zelf mee?
ff iets dat me meteen opvalt:


Andres should be kept alive this night with a promise to inform the town who he was sending the PM's for if he survives the night. If he fails to provide that information as soon as the night phase is done, for the sake of timing, 4 hours after the Night Phase write-up is posted. If he doesn't provide the information we can always vote to lynch him that day or the next, all depending if his information warrants a detective to investigate or not.

But that is just my idea.

Redleg was een van de personen die onze PM's gekregen heeft.
Het is goed mogelijk dat hij GeneralHankerchief heeft vermoord - GH was een van zijn toegestane slachtoffers in de PM.

-Kralizec

I'll translate the Dutch: You're part of the game now? Something that grabbed my attention - the quote from Redleg - Redleg was one of the persons who got our PM's. It's perfectly possible he was the one that killed GeneralHankerchief. GH was one of the victims allowed in the PM.

So, to conclude:

1. Proletariat was eager to cooperate with the mob which means she is a) a Wise Gal b) a townie playing pro-mafia ==> Lynch her
2) I did get the already legendary PM's from Kralizec
3) Redleg has something to explain.


Now, you all know that with the revealing of this information before the night has ended, I risk my life.

So yes I kept this information for myself because I wanted to be 100 % sure pevergreen got lynched. If not by convincing the townies, then by blackmailing.

To prove I'm pro town I don't wait until the night has expired but I give this information now.

Maybe they won't kill me so you'll all start to think I lied. Maybe they are afraid for what else information I might have (which saddenly isn't the case) and they will take no further risk and kill me.

I think I have sufficiently proven my innocence and have been more cooperative towards the town then many of you who are playing this game since the very start.

Yes Louis the Fat, maybe I am a wiseguy, but read the rules carefully and you'll see that a Wiseguy can decide to join the Light Side of the Force. Until now, you have been doing nothing else then spreading wild accusations, meanwhile leaving alot of lurkers at rest... Why?

You also weren't correct about the time I got my role PM.

Instead of speculations and wild accusations, it might be better to come with clear facts.

Only look at the facts and who should be lynched or at least investigated?

- Redleg
- The Stranger
- Proletariat

Add to that this strange event (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77078&page=30), and we have some people who have to elaborate on some things, namely:

- Byzantine Knight
- Caius Flaminius
- TheStranger
- Stig (a dead wiseguy whose soul needs to confess :grin: )


I would like to remind all of you that I suspect a new strategy: spamming this thread so that vital information gets lost and people who don't spend all day behind the pc will miss it and will just jump on the bandwagon. So if I see spamming, I will just copy paste this post as many times as necessary so that everybody has the chance to read it.

I rest my case... for now...

[Kagemusha]

Why does no one trust you? They have good reason not too?

Well you tell me.Our conversations havent been that long alltogether either. Guess as the first person who had to tell he is a wiseguy.My role is to read the thread,listen rumours and point out guilty people when i see them.Like i did with Pevergreen last day.:yes:

[Caius]

To AndresTheNotCunning

The thing happened in that page was explained one and other time
BK made a sliiy mistake, and i quoted he.
then we all edit our posts.

[Moros]

Andres, interesting pm's you have.

[The Stranger]

Andres... its not smart to point your finger at me for I'll bite it off right away.

We'll see who get's lynched next day...

[The Stranger]

@Kagemusha, I was screaming Pevergreens name right from the beginning... I named him Don for starters... It was old news...

[Kralizec]

Kralizec was the don of Beirut's family. We lynched him due to his little mix up.

I thought that PM = Public Message ~:confused:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I thought that PM = Public Message ~:confused:

PM means private message.

[Moros]

PM means private message.
:help: :help: :help: :sweatdrop:

:egypt:

[Pannonian]

So what now's gonna happen. Anyone information or clues on someon being mafia. We might have been succesfull in the past but I'm having the feeling we're running low on suspects and clues...
Read page 21, starting with post #616, and compare with post #622. Classic meatballing, and erratic behaviour of a kind some of us will have seen before. FWIW, post #631 was where I started picking on the trio of The_Stranger, Motep and pevergreen, and although I've changed my mind about The_Stranger, I still think Motep should be lynched. Do it after Andres if you want, but don't let him go. Search the Gameroom for his posts for more clues in his behaviour.

Don't bother with the truly inactive. WoG will take care of them. It might be worth chasing up those with a few but not many posts, or ask Seamus what he's going to do with them. Bear in mind though, Sasaki's hosting Graffiti Mafia, which will take up some of the participants' time. Let that finish before drawing any conclusions about lurkers.

Finally, continue to drive the townie machine and don't let anyone think of joining the Mafia. The town has been remarkably successful in rooting out the Mafia so far, so don't let the Mafia replenish their numbers.

[Kagemusha]

@Kagemusha, I was screaming Pevergreens name right from the beginning... I named him Don for starters... It was old news...

Yep.But then i dont have inside information like you supposedly do.:smash:

[Kralizec]

PM means private message.

Well, you learn something new everyday :laugh4:

[Moros]

Well you need to start networking if you want information...

EDIT: @krazilec rare jongens die anglo-saxen.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Very interesting post by andres. Don't have time to go through it carefully right now but some points.

He accuses redleg of killing GH. Good job Redleg? ~:confused:

He brings up BK's edited post, I fail to see the significance.

From the wording of prole's pm, it looks like she was fishing for information more than trying to help.

This all seems very weak, and quite suspicious of Andres.

[Moros]

indeed Andres got some explaining to do.

[The Stranger]

Yep.But then i dont have inside information like you supposedly do.:smash:

well... my account "The_Don" paid off... didnt it :P

[Moros]

but it wasn't for much or you were dead.

[Andres]

This all seems very weak, and quite suspicious of Andres.

Whatever :coffeenews:


indeed Andres got some explaining to do.

I think I explained it all in my post (which I will copy paste, so spamming accusations without foundation to make my post "disappear" won't help...

If I ask for an elaboration it's suspicious. If I elaborate and give information it's suspicious. If I don't elaborate it's suspicious. If I don't give information it's suspicious. If I eat, it's suspicious. If I fart, it's supsicious. If I drink, it's suspicious...

:sick:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Whatever :coffeenews:

If I ask for an elaboration it's suspicious. If I elaborate and give information it's suspicious. If I don't elaborate it's suspicious. If I don't give information it's suspicious. If I eat, it's suspicious. If I fart, it's supsicious. If I drink, it's suspicious...


:sick:

You are still one of the prime suspects for many people. A long post raising suspicions about 6 other people seems like an attempt to divert suspicion elsewhere; which means you don't feel you can be saved by just defending yourself, which means you know you're guilty and that's why you can't defend yourself.

[Moros]

If I ask for an elaboration it's suspicious. If I elaborate and give information it's suspicious. If I don't elaborate it's suspicious. If I don't give information it's suspicious. If I eat, it's suspicious. If I fart, it's supsicious. If I drink, it's suspicious...

:sick:
Welcome to MAFIA!!!
:egypt:

[Andres]

which means you don't feel you can be saved by just defending yourself, which means you know you're guilty and that's why you can't defend yourself.

Care to say something else instead of overly using the words "guilty" and "suspicious" ?

Meanwhile I'll continue drinking coffee (which isn't a good thing, because it's bad for my stomach)

:coffeenews:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yes Louis the Fat, maybe I am a wiseguy, but read the rules carefully and you'll see that a Wiseguy can decide to join the Light Side of the Force. Until now, you have been doing nothing else then spreading wild accusationsWild accusations? You mean, like informing everybody 5000 posts ago that Kralizec wrote the 'Andres PM'? Informing everybody that you're a wise guy?

The former was to kill Beirut's don, Kralizec. The latter was to persuade you to join the light side. The funny thing is, I was about to post this when I read your post:


Another mafia down!

Pity my call to kill off one of his henchmen at the same time wasn't heeded:


Hey, if some people unvote Pevergreen and change to Andres, so we get a tied vote, then Redleg can hang two baddies simultanously!

Post #434, page 22 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1392830#post1392830). The following was posted even before Andres was in the game, when Pevergreen and Andres were already plotting nasty schemes:

No idea what that is, but

:bow:to Andres, :wink: you left a * out, just so "you" and 'you' know what im talking about :bow:

However, Andres has yet time to prove my accusations wrong and redeem himself. Andres, save yourself, provide us with a definitive account of what the deal is with your PM and your intensive contacts with Pevergreen and Kralizec.
They're both dead, now speak up and save yourself!If you have indeed chosen the light side of the force, you can prove it by PM-ing me the names of the people you wanted to start a mafia group with. Fail to mention but a single one, and I'll have to assume the temptation of the Dark Side overwhelmed you....

Pass, and I'll tell everybody that you're Jedi.

[Louis VI the Fat]

post #1064

That to me is proof that you are a don. [Pevergreen means Pannonian here]
Unvote; Vote: Pannonian
I guess Pannonian got the better of Pevergreen in the end. :beam:

Also, what's this all about then?
post #1088:

Just for fun:
ToS
FoS
HoS
All at Pannonian.

If Pevergreen was GH / MRD's don, then that means Pannonian isn't. Wasn't there a mix up between the names of Pevergreen and Pannonian? Did MRD really intend for that PM to be send to Pevergreen instead of Pannonian?

"You killed my Luca,
you killed my Made,
and now, you seek to lynch me…

But one still remains.

Who is it you think,
Who have we missed,
We killed every Corleone…

But One still remains.”

[Moros]

Care to say something else instead of overly using the words "guilty" and "suspicious" ?

Meanwhile I'll continue drinking coffee (which isn't a good thing, because it's bad for my stomach)

:coffeenews:
Lawyer should be able to defend himself better than that.

[The Stranger]

@moros, Well it was a risk I took, and it paid off... That's Mafia, That's Life.

off to bed... cya guys tommorrow...

[Csargo]

Lawyer should be able to defend himself better than that.

You'de think. Andres is looking pretty guilty especially after putting that evidence on prole which doesn't really mean anything cause I was going to do the same thing.

[The Stranger]

Wait a minute... Something is not right here. Seamus could you please explain to me what that thing behind Kralizec name means...

[Corleone Don] Does the corleone plainly means Don or does it means Don of the Corleone Family?

[Andres]

Lawyer should be able to defend himself better than that.

I'm not a lawyer. I have a law degree and a degree in "notariaat" + one in tax law.

I work with a notaris - notaire. For you anglo-saxons, compare it to a barrister specialised mainly in family law, corporate law, real estate and sometimes acting as a functionary in legal disputes. No pleading (well, sometimes, on very very rare occasions).

Gah! Calling me a lawyer. I'll sue your ass for that insult!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Wait a minute... Something is not right here. Seamus could you please explain to me what that thing behind Kralizec name means...

[Corleone Don] Does the corleone plainly means Don or does it means Don of the Corleone Family?

If you are refering to the notations in the "Butcher's Bill," the notations refer to the [starting role] of the now dead player. There is no indication of family affiliation as I did not provide such.

As far as the narratives go, I compose them but I do solicit (but not require) specifics from those likely to be lynched should they wish to provide same. You can confirm this with any of the lynched to date.

[Kralizec]

So we almost got the corleone family and tagatalia family...

Hey Moros, how is it that you know it's the corleone and tagatalia families?

[Andres]

Time to quote myself (post 1166 on page 39), so the other players living in different timezones get the chance to read this and reflect on it.

Whoever posts immediately after this post and has already posted after the first time I posted this, is spamming to make this information disappear once again and therefore is suspicious.


You have been warned!


Also, anyone else get an interesting PM from Andres last night? A few rounds ago he PMed me to vote for Kralizec and I'd get an 'in' with his family. I was jumping on the bandwagon against Kral anyway, so I wrote back saying I wouldn't be a part of it unless I knew a more about his family or what his goals were. Yesterday he writes back saying basically 'vote for pevergreen, or I'll quote your response in the game thread.'

I thought that was a pretty poor attempt at blackmail, but it's interesting that Andres wanted Kral dead badly, and now has it in for pevergreen. pevergreen looks plenty guilty to me anyhow, don't really see the need for Andres to go around garnering votes.




Well, well, well. Proletariat wants me dead...

I'll tell the town some thingies...

Just a reminder : my time zone is GMT +1 (Brussels, Paris)

I PM'd Proletariat on the 24th of January at 9:16 am

At that time, the vote tally was as follows:



I'm convinced.

Vote: Pevergreen


pevergreen - 9 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 4 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus)
Sasaki - 2 (pevergreen, Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)


9 for pevergreen - 5 for me. Seamus posted that this day would en at 14h00 his timezone, this means at 20h00 for me. Still 11 hours to go and it was not sure pevergreen would be lynched. So I wanted a bandwagon by the time the players of the other timezons popped up.

Why did I want pevergreen to die so eagerly?

In tempore non suspecto (when I was not yet participating in the game) Kralizec informed me he was 90 % sure pevergreen was mafia (from another family). After seeing his suspicious "investigation results" I was convinced he was mafia.

So I pm'd Proletariat this at 9.16 am:


1. Jump on the bandwagon and vote pevergreen
2. pm me your role description.


I assume you don't want this to appear in the Capo thread, do you?

What was this "this"? Well it was a pm Proletariat sent to me in tempore non suspecto (to be precisely the 19th of January at 19:29) to be deliverd at my "mafia contact", id est Kralizec

Here is the pm:



Hello Proletariat,

I apologize for the condescending tone, I didn't mean it like that. I did mean to let you in once you've started to kill for us. I also apologize for what Ichigo did, I messed up the PMs so that he went after you.
If you're willing to forgive me, we need your help pretty badly.
Reenk Roink is one of my potential recruits who I've been talking to. He's (almost) tied with Krazilec when it comes to votes so the result is a little uncertain. If Krazilec is lynched he'll be the scapegoat for this PM episode. Vote for him and I'll bring you into our family.

Signed,
A mafioso


To the mafioso,

No need to apologize, I was trying to get a rise out of the mysterious group that contacted so many players, nothing was meant by what I said in the thread.

I have placed my vote on Kral and willl leave it there for now, but I'm still a little skeptical about what I'm getting into here. What family is this? What's your faction's goal? How can I help?

prole[/QUOTE]

Now, why would Kralizec have asked for Proletariat to vote for him? Check this thread and specifically the posts made by that time. Things were going pretty bad for Kralizec. He was about to get lynched. He thought Proletariat didn't want to cooperate and thus he thought I'll say to vote Kralizec and then she will vote for somebody else. Apparently Proletariat was willing to cooperate with the mafia and she voted Kralizec... Don Kralizec gambled and lost.

To prove it was Kralizec who wrote the legendary PM's, I'll tell you this :

Kralizec was surprised that I had joined the game and he wrote this to me:


Je speelt nu zelf mee?
ff iets dat me meteen opvalt:


Andres should be kept alive this night with a promise to inform the town who he was sending the PM's for if he survives the night. If he fails to provide that information as soon as the night phase is done, for the sake of timing, 4 hours after the Night Phase write-up is posted. If he doesn't provide the information we can always vote to lynch him that day or the next, all depending if his information warrants a detective to investigate or not.

But that is just my idea.

Redleg was een van de personen die onze PM's gekregen heeft.
Het is goed mogelijk dat hij GeneralHankerchief heeft vermoord - GH was een van zijn toegestane slachtoffers in de PM.

-Kralizec

I'll translate the Dutch: You're part of the game now? Something that grabbed my attention - the quote from Redleg - Redleg was one of the persons who got our PM's. It's perfectly possible he was the one that killed GeneralHankerchief. GH was one of the victims allowed in the PM.

So, to conclude:

1. Proletariat was eager to cooperate with the mob which means she is a) a Wise Gal b) a townie playing pro-mafia ==> Lynch her
2) I did get the already legendary PM's from Kralizec
3) Redleg has something to explain.


Now, you all know that with the revealing of this information before the night has ended, I risk my life.

So yes I kept this information for myself because I wanted to be 100 % sure pevergreen got lynched. If not by convincing the townies, then by blackmailing.

To prove I'm pro town I don't wait until the night has expired but I give this information now.

Maybe they won't kill me so you'll all start to think I lied. Maybe they are afraid for what else information I might have (which saddenly isn't the case) and they will take no further risk and kill me.

I think I have sufficiently proven my innocence and have been more cooperative towards the town then many of you who are playing this game since the very start.

Yes Louis the Fat, maybe I am a wiseguy, but read the rules carefully and you'll see that a Wiseguy can decide to join the Light Side of the Force. Until now, you have been doing nothing else then spreading wild accusations, meanwhile leaving alot of lurkers at rest... Why?

You also weren't correct about the time I got my role PM.

Instead of speculations and wild accusations, it might be better to come with clear facts.

Only look at the facts and who should be lynched or at least investigated?

- Redleg
- The Stranger
- Proletariat

Add to that this strange event (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77078&page=30), and we have some people who have to elaborate on some things, namely:

- Byzantine Knight
- Caius Flaminius
- TheStranger
- Stig (a dead wiseguy whose soul needs to confess :grin: )


I would like to remind all of you that I suspect a new strategy: spamming this thread so that vital information gets lost and people who don't spend all day behind the pc will miss it and will just jump on the bandwagon. So if I see spamming, I will just copy paste this post as many times as necessary so that everybody has the chance to read it.

I rest my case... for now...

[Csargo]

bleh

[Stig]

- Stig (a dead wiseguy whose soul needs to confess)
What do I need to confess?

[doc_bean]

Hey Moros, how is it that you know it's the corleone and tagatalia families?

I'd like to know this too :inquisitive:

[Kralizec]

Should anyone wonder, I confirm that Andres is telling the truth.

[Louis VI the Fat]

AndresTheCunning is a Jedi.



If you have indeed chosen the light side of the force, you can prove it by PM-ing me the names of the people you wanted to start a mafia group with. Fail to mention but a single one, and I'll have to assume the temptation of the Dark Side overwhelmed you....

Pass, and I'll tell everybody that you're Jedi.

[Caius]

AndresTheCunning is a Jedi.
:inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

:inquisitive:

*You don't need to be inquisitive, this isn't the Andres you are looking for*

:stare:

[Pannonian]

So can we start looking at Motep?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I can't decide whether Motep is a mafioso trying to avoid notice or a townie who just isn't sure what he's doing.

Which is it Motep?

[JimBob]

I'm gonna go back in time a second.

Moros said in post 1146 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1400531&postcount=1146)that
So we almost got the corleone family and tagatalia family...
How do you know that Moros? Corleone has been revealed to us but your post is the first time I read Tagatalia besides the introduction.

[Caius]

I can't decide whether Motep is a mafioso trying to avoid notice or a townie who just isn't sure what he's doing.

Which is it Motep?
The second, i guess.

[Pannonian]

I can't decide whether Motep is a mafioso trying to avoid notice or a townie who just isn't sure what he's doing.

Which is it Motep?
Go back to page 21, post #616, where Motep votes Sasaki because he thinks you're suspicious, no explanation of why. Pevergreen followed in post #622 with the same reason. That was what first brought those two to my attention, and in that round (before Kralizec's boo-boo) you voted Motep while I voted pevergreen, following pretty much the same reasoning (meatballing).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The second, i guess.

How about you Caius? What have you been up to? You were in that group with GH, Sigurd, and Kage. GH was mafia, maybe you are too?

[Caius]

Nah.Im with Omanes.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Go back to page 21, post #616, where Motep votes Sasaki because he thinks you're suspicious, no explanation of why. Pevergreen followed in post #622 with the same reason. That was what first brought those two to my attention, and in that round (before Kralizec's boo-boo) you voted Motep while I voted pevergreen, following pretty much the same reasoning (meatballing).

Interesting. I don't think the two incidents are connected, since the corleone family was wiped out (according to the lynch scene? how much was written by pevergeen?). However, I am remembering back to night one with the attempt on my life, followed by motep's voting for me. Could be he decided to off me and then when he failed at night he went for lynch instead.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Nah.Im with Omanes.

Do you know what sigurd and Kage are up to? Why did you break with them?

I believe kage is a wise guy, but do you know if sigurd claimed townie?

[Caius]

Ok.

I didnt not participated, because GH was dead.
Kage didnt told me Seamus was with us.
Then Omanes told me lets protect *here goes the name*.He wasnt attacked.
Also, BK know that too.

I dont talked with Sigurd.

[Proletariat]

Now, why would Kralizec have asked for Proletariat to vote for him? Check this thread and specifically the posts made by that time. Things were going pretty bad for Kralizec. He was about to get lynched. He thought Proletariat didn't want to cooperate and thus he thought I'll say to vote Kralizec and then she will vote for somebody else. Apparently Proletariat was willing to cooperate with the mafia and she voted Kralizec... Don Kralizec gambled and lost.


Very weak accusation against me. I felt no guilt whatsoever revealing what I wrote to you after your attempted blackmail, since it's incredibly not damning. That's why I went public with it myself, after your not so vague PM threat. I was curious as to what sort of information could be gleaned, but I wasn't surprised to see that I never got a response.

The gamble that's being lost is your attempt to try and use people's PMs against them, when your baiting attempts only got you weak and fairly innocuous responses. Maybe if you had tried to get a few kills with some wiseguys organised and then posted those PMs, it would've worked. But no one's gonna buy this, "Hey look, she was approached by the mafia and responded, 'uh, give me some names and info before I entertain your cause.' Sounds like town hating scum!"

[Pannonian]

Interesting. I don't think the two incidents are connected, since the corleone family was wiped out (according to the lynch scene? how much was written by pevergeen?). However, I am remembering back to night one with the attempt on my life, followed by motep's voting for me. Could be he decided to off me and then when he failed at night he went for lynch instead.
I wouldn't know about his reasoning until the game is finished, but what caught my eye was the dilly-dallying when he was challenged. Meatballing isn't necessarily a sign of Mafia, but what follows when challenged can be telling, as you of all people should know.

[The Stranger]

Caius... are you doing an action with Omanes this night 2?

[Caius]

No at the moment

[The Stranger]

I wanna see the Autopsies... why arent we doing 12 hour cycles :P

[pevergreen]

Well! Looks like i got my wish!

That was without doubt the coolest death yet.

To clear a few things up:

I wrote the death speech, but the wording changed slightly towards the end, Seamus just made it sound better.

MRD did not accidently pm as a made.
I have lost day 1 and night 1 pm's but his first PM was to me.

I was hoping my last line or two would cause some investigation

'One still remains/roams" whatever.
But "you wiped out all Corelones"

From my role PM

Investigations:

If investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will almost certainly be discovered to be “innocent.” You will only register as “criminal” or “guilty” if you have personally participated in a killing.

Corleone Luca = GeneralHankerchief

Corleone Made = Major Robert Dump

Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your families chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming.

So one don is close to winning.

And just for The Stranger, the word i was asking you for came from this paragraph, it should also help a bit.

You will choose some “signature” component that will feature in all of your family’s killings. This may be a consistent method, a symbol or calling card, or some other distinctive characteristic – but it must be used in each killing without exception. You must notify me of this characteristic with your first nighttime PM.


So from now on, Im gunning for a townie victory!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I find Drisos interesting. I recall in several past games he has posted a "Shucks, I didn't get a mafia role once again" post after the pm's were out. He hasn't this time. He's also lurking. What's going on Drisos?

[The Stranger]

your death was definitly the coolest

[Caius]

He is not dead.
Wait, are you talking to pevergreen?Oh:shame:
Im confused

[pevergreen]

He was talking to me.

[Motep]

OMG!!

I caught up!!

and olny and hour of reading...

Note: I know what I am doing. I am a townie trying to confuse you. It worked wonders.

And about the little postage: Ive been playin online chess (and kickin ass)

Sasaki, I was to busy organizing a hit on pevergreen... I decided after that to stick to the "light side" and I spent two nights protecting people who were not attacked.

[The Stranger]

Pevergreen was not attacked...

[Csargo]

OMG!!

I caught up!!

and olny and hour of reading...

Note: I know what I am doing. I am a townie trying to confuse you. It worked wonders.

And about the little postage: Ive been playin online chess (and kickin ass)

Sasaki, I was to busy organizing a hit on pevergreen... I decided after that to stick to the "light side" and I spent two nights protecting people who were not attacked.

The Stranger he said he decided not to attack. Though when he was PMing me he was murder crazy why the change of heart Motep?

[Louis VI the Fat]

AndresTheCunning is a jedi
:inquisitive:Andres and I made a deal. He wanted to prove his innocence, and I provided him with an opportunity. If he would PM me some things that would prove his willingness to work with the town, then I would tell everybody that he did so.

He provided it, and I stuck to my end of the bargain. He is of the light side of the force now, a Jedi. Andres is now innocent until proven guilty, just like everybody else.

Everything about the original 'Andres PM' is forgotten and the suspicion it raised is no longer relevant to Andres' present position in this game.

[Csargo]

Andres and I made a deal. He wanted to prove his innocence, and I provided him with an opportunity. If he would PM me some things that would prove his willingness to work with the town, then I would tell everybody that he did so.

He provided it, and I stuck to my end of the bargain. He is of the light side of the force now, a Jedi. Andres is now innocent until proven guilty, just like everybody else.

Everything about the original 'Andres PM' is forgotten and the suspicion it raised is no longer relevant to Andres' present position in this game.

Who are you to say who's suspicious or not?

[CountArach]

Should anyone wonder, I confirm that Andres is telling the truth.

About what, the family names, or that long post just above?

[CountArach]

Andres and I made a deal. He wanted to prove his innocence, and I provided him with an opportunity. If he would PM me some things that would prove his willingness to work with the town, then I would tell everybody that he did so.

He provided it, and I stuck to my end of the bargain. He is of the light side of the force now, a Jedi. Andres is now innocent until proven guilty, just like everybody else.

Everything about the original 'Andres PM' is forgotten and the suspicion it raised is no longer relevant to Andres' present position in this game.

Oh? Would you care to share what information he has given you? Withholding it will only serve to make you suspicious. If it leads to another Mafia death, and you get killed for it, it will be a win for the town. Whereas, if you don't share, we will kill you anyway. So decide now:

1. Share the information with us and get killed by the mafia, but have a chance of being protected
2. Don't share the information and get lynched.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Andres and I made a deal. He wanted to prove his innocence, and I provided him with an opportunity. If he would PM me some things that would prove his willingness to work with the town, then I would tell everybody that he did so.

He provided it, and I stuck to my end of the bargain. He is of the light side of the force now, a Jedi. Andres is now innocent until proven guilty, just like everybody else.

Everything about the original 'Andres PM' is forgotten and the suspicion it raised is no longer relevant to Andres' present position in this game.

For you, maybe, but the rest of us have not seen any of that information. So for us, suspicion is just as relevent.

Crazed Rabbit

[Motep]

For you, maybe, but the rest of us have not seen any of that information. So for us, suspicion is just as relevent.

Crazed Rabbit

I for one am willing to forgive Andres for his past deeds...now...onto the lyching of me (according to pannonian, one of the people I protected)

[Major Robert Dump]

The PM to Pannonian was intentional. The idea was to bluff that I, as a wiseguy, got special info on other wiseguys. After I contacted the person of choice (in this case Pannonian) I would investigate the contact to see if he was being honest with me and move from there.

I put out GH for the sake of making him look like a doctor, something he did as well. Obviously, this may have contributed to his death if word got out to other mafia (or was it a vigilante grp that killed him?)

I did, however, make one fatal mistake that ended up costing me. I didn't read up on the roles adequately, and for some reason I thought wiseguys could do investigations. I completely forgot i used the word invesstigate in that PM until it was posted here, otherwise I would have been trying to talk my way out of it in PMs. In short, my stupid mistake is not as stupid as it first appears, but it was pretty freakin stupid and I cost my team the game.

FYI Pannonian, I really, really wanted to do protection groups with you guys, the idea being that I agree to go then not show up. If I were really lucky, the target would still die and you would have gotten killed as well. Now that would have been funny

[The Stranger]

but you got it all wrong... Pannonian is a Don... an you as MRD are a Made... You can do investigations... Youre family is DEAD... help the town win!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

but you got it all wrong... Pannonian is a Don... an you as MRD are a Made... You can do investigations... Youre family is DEAD... help the town win!

MRD is dead ~:handball:

And what makes you think pannonian is a don? ~:confused:

[The Stranger]

I know MRD is dead... so is his family.... but he has done Invests... his Don told me...

Why I suspect Pann?

For starters, He was very fast to accuse me Pevergreen and Motep of being mafia... He was right about Pevergreen, but I know he got Insideintel about that one. Pevergreen's Team was ratted out by one... member to say it like that. We're missing one more Luca, Kralizec's Luca... Pann thought that maybe I or Motep were his luca... or made or whatever... So he wanted us dead, because he thought we were rival families.

His socalled claim of suicide... is he dead? NO! Why... because nobody wanted to join him in his noble cause... Oh wait... it was HIS noble cause wasn't it... all shallow words, no deeds... to be seen in the fact that he is still alive.

His oppinion about me might have changed... so has my oppinion about him. Also I think I can explain a lot of the attacks and murders, I just need to sort a few things out.

Also... out of the blue you decided that Andres was not guilty while you were amongst the first to scream his name... How come? Know something we don't know.

One more phase, and it's time for revelation, THE SHALL EAT GOOD TOMORROW

[The Stranger]

Oh... and you're awefully quick to react... how come?

[pevergreen]

THE SHALL EAT GOOD TOMORROW

Lost the Clones i have, mm, mm - Yoda.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Who are you to say who's suspicious or not?I'm not. Andres and I struck a deal, he fullfilled his end of the bargain, so I was compelled to fulfill my end.
Caius then looked inquisitive at my post 'Andres is a Jedi': ":inquisitive:". So I figured he, maybe others too, may not have understood what that was all about. Staying true to the spirit of the deal with Andres, I now felt compelled to explain again, in certain terms, what it was all about.

So I spelled out the deal in great detail and a clear language. It may read like an irritatingly pompous statement declaring Andres clean, but in fact it is simply me making sure the deal was explained clearly to Caius.



Would you care to share what information he has given you? Withholding it will only serve to make you suspicious. If it leads to another Mafia death, and you get killed for it, it will be a win for the town. Whereas, if you don't share, we will kill you anyway. So decide now:

1. Share the information with us and get killed by the mafia, but have a chance of being protected
2. Don't share the information and get lynched. :laugh4:

[HughTower]

The PM to Pannonian was intentional. The idea was to bluff that I, as a wiseguy, got special info on other wiseguys. After I contacted the person of choice (in this case Pannonian) I would investigate the contact to see if he was being honest with me and move from there.



I don't believe this. Pannionian described this as his first recieved PM (it came almost along with the role PMs. Why do you ask him who should you recruit/investigate? How do you already know GH is a 'doctor' - and why would he tell you? Why would you suggest that GH spend his turns protecting Pannionian if you didn't know what he was? Your explanation fits with the later PMs, but not the very first one.

Why has pevergreen revealed his identity as a Don? Is he really rooting for a townie win? Or could he be diverting suspicion away from the real Don of the family, who is still alive, but all alone? I await his autopsy with interest, & these are my logical absolutes.

1. If pevergreen is a Don, then Pannionian cannot be Don of the MRD & GH family. He might still be criminal, but the only evidence then against him is his strange demands for double suicides.
2. If pevergreen is NOT a Don, then Pannionian must be, & MRD's post quoted above is an attempt to divert suspicion away from him.

At the start of the game, I was in contact with pevergreen & he convinced me he was townie by quoting from the townie PM (before it was posted publicly). This is not foolproof evidence, but worthy of consideration only. He could merely be a rogue townie.

pevergreen's autopsy holds the answer, not his lynching 'song' or any admissions in chat rooms. Till then, we must wait on Pannionian, & try & work out family no. 3.

[Redleg]

Well Well it seems The Stranger is attempting threats and wanting others to do some killing for him. Sorry all this does is cast suspecion on youThe Stranger and makes me wonder if you did not have a part to play in Andres's earlier PM.




IMHO SCREW MOTEP AND HUGH!!!

I'm onto the next Don and a Special Role... Both Mafia ofcourse... But I want to nail them both at the same time, so... Can you kill Pannonian so we can lynch the other, my proof will set you free of all guilt.

Also... Sasaki is dirty...

Attempting to get others to play the patsy for you seems to be an indication that you are not what you claim to be.

[The Stranger]

:laugh4:

Redleg... you're stupid...

[The Stranger]

It was no threat... as the PM title said... REQUEST...

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Oh I am lost in this thread, I don't know who is who and what is supposed to be going on here. However, although I do now trust The Stranger - I need to ask him why he needed Redleg to perform the kill for him. How does he know that Redleg is trustworthy?

[HughTower]

You will choose some “signature” component that will feature in all of your family’s killings. This may be a consistent method, a symbol or calling card, or some other distinctive characteristic – but it must be used in each killing without exception. You must notify me of this characteristic with your first nighttime PM.

On a separate note, I believe the obvious conclusion is that every successful killing, apart from Aggony's, & also Moros' attempted murder, were the actions of 1 Mafia family. In N3, they killed once, & attempted once - which means they must have thought they had at least 4 people loyal to them, excl. the Don. That breaks down to whether 2 or 3 new recuits depending on whether the Luca protected or not.

I reckon they're lurking.

[The Stranger]

I think I have a idea about who attacked MRD, Moros and Aggony...

RTWGuru was attacked by one person... a loner...

One more phase... Almost...

[HughTower]

I think I have a idea about who attacked MRD, Moros and Aggony...



Aggony was killed separately to everyone else - there was no white glove, he was strung up in pevergreen's living room with a poem about how the bad guys will win.

[The Stranger]

Yeah... I know, but it can be a group operating here... A wise guy that has been ordered to do a hit... but I was talking about the boss behind these kills... if there is one ofcourse... I'm not sure... yet...

[Major Robert Dump]

Hugh you are reading far, far too into my PM and not realizing with every mafia family also comes goals of individual self preservation. but if it makes you happy, sure, Pannonian is my Don. Whatever. I hope the town doesn't win, you are all so inept thus far with the obvious starting advantage. Misdirection is a wench, ain't it?

[Moros]

I think I have a idea about who attacked MRD, Moros and Aggony...

RTWGuru was attacked by one person... a loner...

One more phase... Almost...
:balloon2:

Will a new director also be elected next day? Or is it the day after?