Common Traits

[Zpartan]

I dont know any other traits people get quite often, but after every battle I win against rebels I always get "Winning First" (+1 Dread) which is fine but this time around I was going to go the Chivilary way not the Dread way. This even happens if I Occupy the settlement instead of sacking or exterminating.

Anyone know the cause for getting this trait?
Or any other traits that come up often? too often?

[seneschal.the]

"Winning First" is the first level of the trait "Battle Dread".

It just requires 1 point to get to the first level (winning first).

You have a 50% chance of getting one point of Battle dread every time you fight in a battle where the general killed >8 people and you did not have >0 points of Chivalry already. This trigger exists twice..

You have a 100% chance of one point when winning a battle with odds >2 and you killed more than 75% of the enemy army and does not have points in Battle Chivalry.

You have a 100% chacne of getting two points when winning a battle, "crushing", killed >90% of the enemy and the odds were <0.95 and your general did not fight and you do not have any points in battle chivalry.

Nothing to do with occupying settlements.

The Battle Chivalry first level is "Fair fighter" (1 point).

To get chivalry traits, don't sack or exterminate, don't use your general too much in battle, don't ever hunt down fleeing troops, always release prisoners of war and always pay for them. Do go on crusades though, gives tons of chivalry traits.

[Kraggenmor]

My guys seem to always get 'sloppy taxman'

[Foz]

My guys seem to always get 'sloppy taxman'

This is again based on your play style, but also partly an oversight in design. Basically, you get BadTaxman (it's the trait where "Sloppy taxman" is a level) from doing the following things:

- Having a building complete when you have taxes set < high, and your people are > disillusioned. 15% chance here.
- Randomly at birth. 2% chance.

Mostly it's from that first one. It's been speculated that it should not apply in castles where you cannot control the tax rate... but either way, that's mostly where it does in fact happen since they typically have happy people and obviously have < high taxes. For the time being you can either change your file to also check that the settlement doesn't have any buildings >= motte_and_bailey (this makes BadTaxman not applicable to governors of castles), or avoid putting governors in castles. Either way you should also set at least high tax rate in your cities unless you must lower it to keep your people from rioting, as this avoids the tax-based portion of the conditions, and thus the bad trait.

If you want more info on making it not apply to castles like I mentioned, just let me know.

[OMGLAZERS]

My guys seem to always get 'sloppy taxman'

Better than a sloppy kisser.

BA DUM TISH!

No no, but really, i'll be here all night.

I think my most common trait is going to have to be the +1 Dread. Which is great, because in vanilla it would totally eliminate all chivalry. Whoopie.

Thank goodness for VnV fix mods.

[LordKhaine]

The traits I get most? Probably the scarred line of traits. Simply because I like my generals to prove themselves in battle. If they can't get injured a few times in battle they don't deserve to lead an army!

[LordKhaine]

Do go on crusades though, gives tons of chivalry traits.

Indeed. In my Scottish game I had 6 "spare" family members so I sent all of them on a crusade. As a result of all the items/characters/traits I gained, in a single step I managed to make half my family uber chivalric (5+ chivalry). Perfect way to revitalise your family line :)

(Sorry for the double post, but got confuzzled by multiple tabs while browsing the forums)

[Musashi]

Hmm. And here I thought "winning first" came from getting friendly fire kills in battle.

[Neoncat]

Winning first is one of the most annoying traits. You just can't assault city/castle without getting one. Thanks to endless well of courage in the center of city/castle.(If you kill more than 90% of enemies you will get it...)

[seneschal.the]

Indeed. In my Scottish game I had 6 "spare" family members so I sent all of them on a crusade. As a result of all the items/characters/traits I gained, in a single step I managed to make half my family uber chivalric (5+ chivalry). Perfect way to revitalise your family line :)

You can also just wait until the last turn before the crusader takes the target and sign up every general, everywhere, with as much troops as you can. Since the crusade will be over the next turn, they will not lose troops for not moving towards the crusade target. And you get that wonderful statement of xxxx amount of florins from the pope and 60 units gained experience.. Plus, all your generals get started on the crusade-trait ladder and chivalrous traits.

In fact, an even nastier little exploit exists:
If you only want to be chivalrous, but not a crusader, you can join, leave and rejoin the crusade an infinite amount of times in a turn! Each time you join you get points in a chivalrous trait, but you lose points every time you leave in the "crusader" trait (so you won't ever get those nice bonuses of fighting against muslims). But you can turn every general into "Xxx the Saint". :D

[Kraggenmor]

This is again based on your play style, but also partly an oversight in design. Basically, you get BadTaxman (it's the trait where "Sloppy taxman" is a level) from doing the following things:

- Having a building complete when you have taxes set < high, and your people are > disillusioned. 15% chance here.
- Randomly at birth. 2% chance.

Mostly it's from that first one. It's been speculated that it should not apply in castles where you cannot control the tax rate... but either way, that's mostly where it does in fact happen since they typically have happy people and obviously have < high taxes. For the time being you can either change your file to also check that the settlement doesn't have any buildings >= motte_and_bailey (this makes BadTaxman not applicable to governors of castles), or avoid putting governors in castles. Either way you should also set at least high tax rate in your cities unless you must lower it to keep your people from rioting, as this avoids the tax-based portion of the conditions, and thus the bad trait.

If you want more info on making it not apply to castles like I mentioned, just let me know.

Thanks for the info Foz. Not arguing that those things won't get the trait but, I think there must be more factors to getting it than that.

I avoid ratcheting taxes above normal like the plague. I do seem to get some disillusionment in my settlements from squalor, or from pulling out a bunch of troops all at once but, not for long periods. Certainly not from 'High' taxes.


I wonder if, when morale in a settlement slips to a given level the trait can be given for completeing a building while people are disillusioned regardless of tax rate.

'Bad Taxman' seems to just show up if I leave them in a settlement for a lengthy period.

[Zasz1234]

I too get those two traits, also the adulteress always shows up along with the pagan magician. As far as traits I always end up with drunkard comanders. Kinda sad because if you want any spies at all or keep the population happy you need a brothel or tavern.

[Neoncat]

About taxes...

Low tax rate can get you noble in rule trait every turn you have it on. If building is finished with low tax rate your governor can get sloppy taxman.

Normal tax rate doesn't have any good bonuses. But just like low tax rate if building is finished with low tax rate your governor can get sloppy taxman.

High tax rate is best! Your governor can get good taxman trait if building is finished with high tax rate.

Very high tax rate is like extortion. Still your governor can get good taxman trait if building is finished with very high tax rate. Also it can give you more dread with 'harsh ruler' trait or something.

[Foz]

Thanks for the info Foz. Not arguing that those things won't get the trait but, I think there must be more factors to getting it than that.

I avoid ratcheting taxes above normal like the plague. I do seem to get some disillusionment in my settlements from squalor, or from pulling out a bunch of troops all at once but, not for long periods. Certainly not from 'High' taxes.


I wonder if, when morale in a settlement slips to a given level the trait can be given for completeing a building while people are disillusioned regardless of tax rate.

'Bad Taxman' seems to just show up if I leave them in a settlement for a lengthy period.
I think you must've misunderstood my logical statements. The trigger is when your tax rate is less than high, and your people are happier than disillusioned... then you get the chance for bad taxman points. This is b/c from a historical standpoint, you were a bad tax collector if you weren't extorting money from the people to the full extent possible. So if you are avoiding ratcheting taxes above normal and generally keeping your population happy, that is exactly the reason you DO see bad taxman traits appearing. High taxes or above are required to stave off the trait, OR keeping your subjects unhappy enough to stay disillusioned at best.

I would tend to agree with Neoncat that High tax rate is typically the best option, however the possibility that low rate gives of gaining chivalry is very interesting. I've used it pretty successfully to farm chivalry, which has the huge benefit of adding .5% city growth for each chivalry point your guy has. The bad taxman points you often get along with it are not too difficult to cancel with a good high tax rate and the correct happiness level of your citizenry... leaving high chivalry governors that cause waves of procreation anywhere they go :beam:

[Von Nanega]

If bad taxman gets to spread out through the family, why not give_trait this GoodTaxman 1 to the affected governer? I use this occasionally to combat the too easy spread of bad governor traits.

[Kraggenmor]

I think you must've misunderstood my logical statements. The trigger is when your tax rate is less than high, and your people are happier than disillusioned... then you get the chance for bad taxman points. This is b/c from a historical standpoint, you were a bad tax collector if you weren't extorting money from the people to the full extent possible. So if you are avoiding ratcheting taxes above normal and generally keeping your population happy, that is exactly the reason you DO see bad taxman traits appearing. High taxes or above are required to stave off the trait, OR keeping your subjects unhappy enough to stay disillusioned at best.

Wow. Welcome to counter-intuitivity at it's finest. ;)

Thanks for clarifying, Foz!

[Neoncat]

If bad taxman gets to spread out through the family, why not give_trait this GoodTaxman 1 to the affected governer? I use this occasionally to combat the too easy spread of bad governor traits.
Cheater!

I like to play game as it is ment to be and not to cheat in anyway. Ok, I don't count AI stupidy, which you can exploit nearly every game or sometimes you just can't avoid exploiting it. I just call it strategy... However I really despite cheaters in any game. They aren't just worth of my compassion. If game is too hard, just set it easier. If it is too hard with easy, just learn to play. I have one friend who doesn't play games, if he can't get his characters immortal... Oh, well I don't help him when he can't get forward in any game, because I think hes just not worth it.

When my games come out, they will be hard as hell and there will be no cheating options ingame. Plus there will be some barriers for external cheating. :)

[Von Nanega]

Having developed rather good Governers in RTW, without "cheating". I have come to the conclusion as has many other gamers on this particular forum that bad trait spawn like the flies on cows flung during battle in M2TW. So I "fix" the problem occasionally. Besides, what do you care how someone plays the game they bought themselves....Hmmm?