This should not be happening!?

[ForVictory]

Maybe this should be posted in one of the mods forums for an solution to the problem, but if anyone has any please state it.

When i charge with my cavalry into the backs of Greek spearmen i lose men at the moment of impact and the spearmen havent even turnt yet to face me!
Anyone else noticed this?

[Lord Comnenus]

casualties are expected here, hell when i charge my heavy cav to some pitiful peasants, some horses just trip to the peasants and died! and my cavalry get so jumpy that when i charged at the back of some phalanx they jump and landed in the front!

[Lord Comnenus]

casualties are expected here, hell when i charge my heavy cav to some pitiful peasants, some horses just trip to the peasants and died! and my cavalry get so jumpy that when i charged at the back of some phalanx they jump and landed in the front!

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi,
This is not really a bug, but more of a feature, although I understand why you find it incredibly annoying. Cavalry, very unfortunately, lose a few men on impact as they would have done realistically in a historical battle. Sadly I don't know how to mod it out of the game, but may I suggest that you try asking in the modding forums. I am sure that a modding genius would be able and happy to help you out. Good luck and cheers.

[Poulp']

More specifically, cav loses a few horses, and if your general has a healing ancillary, these casualities are usually healed at the end of the battle.

[antisocialmunky]

True. And you can mod it out. You can only lose a MAX of one HP per attack so anything with more than one HP won't die on impact. Generals have more than one HP and are impact death proof for the first charge. They might die if someone does an attack on them right after they hit but not when they hit usually. Try a few tests against taking charges with Spartans. Its not really a fix, but you can mess with the def/armour/shield values to make it work.

[Caius]

It can be possible the Spear Warband doesnt have a seconday weapon

[Severous]

Bug. Reflected charge bonus for spearmen should only work from the front but it works against cav charges from any direction.

When your cavalry charge through your own ready troops from behind they will loose men. Happens to the AI as well.

Its a kind of friendly fire except its caused by spearmen.:dizzy2:

Try ordering your cavalry to run through to a point beyond the enemy. Not charge, run. Once in combat order them to attack the enemy as usual. This seems to avoid the worst effects of this reflected charge bonus bug.

Doesnt seem so bad in BI as it did in RTW V1.5

[ForVictory]

Well bummer, that takes alot of joy away from doing battle. Like when you outsmart the enemy because of your genious tactic and you manage to get around of the enemy and think your gonna rock the enemy out the boat while your heavily outnumbered but only to see by shock that ur doing urself more harm by outflanking the enemy.

[Caius]

Well bummer, that takes alot of joy away from doing battle. Like when you outsmart the enemy because of your genious tactic and you manage to get around of the enemy and think your gonna rock the enemy out the boat while your heavily outnumbered but only to see by shock that ur doing urself more harm by outflanking the enemy.

This really ****** sucks ******* game ****!!!! :furious3:
Bewareof the bad language

[HumphreysCraig00]

Yes it is a glitch, I have found that hitting the enemy from as many directions as possible with as many men cancels out the chargedeaths quite a bit as the enemy routs and routing soldiers (apart from eles and chariots) dont hurt my soldiers.


When your cavalry charge through your own ready troops from behind they will loose men. Happens to the AI as well. [/quote[

Ive never had it happen through my own men, through allied men yes but not through my own.


[quote]Cavalry, very unfortunately, lose a few men on impact as they would have done realistically in a historical battle

From what ive read cavalry didnt charge right into groups of soldiers, mainly because thier horses would flake out beforehand, and secondly because of this.
From what I have read they would only charge into groups when they were in a loose formation.

[ForVictory]

Losing men while charge is realistic? uhm that depends but in this case of this topic an attack charge from behind really shouldnt lose men.

[x-dANGEr]

It's balanced. After all, you can kill any phalanx unit using a Peasant unit regarded you have help from any other unit.

[ByzantineKnight]

I believe that this is only in RTW 1.5 and BI and possably Alexander. You could use an earlier patch (thats probably not a good idea, the patches were made for the reason, they fix bugs and are more fun)...

ByzantineKnight

[PapaNasty]

Charge a bunch of horses into a tight formation of armoured men in real life (even from behind, IF you can get the horses to charge into them in the first place) and a bunch of riders are likely to fall off. If people are concerned about "realism" in a computer game made for fun, maybe they should have made horses flake out of cavalry charges at the last minute, and only charge into groups of routing troops? Possibly they could have added the "full charge" ability only to experienced or elite cavalry hmmm? Its war, expect casualties ;)

[ForVictory]

I expect no casualties when i charge from befind at the first second when the enemy isnt even facing me! Pls think before you start trying to defend the makers of this game for such a stupid mistake you bunch of a Creative Assembly lovers :whip:

[PapaNasty]

Well, seeing as your obviously rather upset about losing a few horses when attacking an enemy, i'd suggest that this game probably isnt for you. Have you also noticed that men wearing armour and carrying big shields can also get killed by men with slings and stones? But I digress, I'm going off topic.

I find that 9/10 times my cavalry will destroy and rout a phalanx (what, 80 plus men?) when attacking from behind, and that my average cavalry loss was maybe 2 or 3 horses on each instance (vh/vh). I specifically took note of this in last nights game I played. I can see how these odds might not suit you though, so I don't blame you for being upset with the game. Perhaps you would have more fun if you dropped the difficulty level down a few notches?

I did notice that if the Phalanx was not fully engaged with my infantry (i.e, first rank not "face to face" with my men) then I lost more horses. A rear attack on not-engaged phalanx unit also caused more losses, but i'm more careful than that and only engage cavalry with phalanx's after they have been engaged by infantry. Nearly half the time I would not lose any horse against a fully engaged phalanx, and they would rout quickly. My general had good moral bonus' and was an excellent attacker/defender though, so could pass this onto his troops. :2thumbsup:

[HumphreysCraig00]

Losing men while charge is realistic? uhm that depends but in this case of this topic an attack charge from behind really shouldnt lose men.

Yes it should. A horse running at full speed into a group of packed people will fall oiver, falling off a charging horse will severly damage the rider. The incapacitated rider is then cut to peices or trampled.

I expect no casualties when i charge from befind at the first second when the enemy isnt even facing me! Pls think before you start trying to defend the makers of this game for such a stupid mistake you bunch of a Creative Assembly lovers

Well you expect wrong, and you are the one who isnt thinking straight.


Charge a bunch of horses into a tight formation of armoured men in real life (even from behind, IF you can get the horses to charge into them in the first place) and a bunch of riders are likely to fall off. If people are concerned about "realism" in a computer game made for fun, maybe they should have made horses flake out of cavalry charges at the last minute, and only charge into groups of routing troops? Possibly they could have added the "full charge" ability only to experienced or elite cavalry hmmm? Its war, expect casualties ;)

I think they didnt as most people think the same way as forvictory.

Yeah if you charge an unengaged phalanx in the back there will be more opportunity for the men in the phalanx to turn as they wont be tunnel visioned and they wont be as squeezed so more casuakties is right.



It's balanced. After all, you can kill any phalanx unit using a Peasant unit regarded you have help from any other unit.

What difficulty are you talking about?

[PapaNasty]

even on VH/VH a Peasant unit will have a good show against Phalanx (Militia Hoplite, maybe?) if they are supported by a unit of troops like the Urban Cohort... hehe. I've done it myself. Positon the Peasants to recieve the phalanx head-on, then quickly, before they rout, hit em in the flank or rear with Cohort..... usually works.... but now we are off topic :(

[HumphreysCraig00]

Well hes got the answers to all the questions hes asked and he has been informed that his incorrect point of view is just so, So now its time to discuss points that branch off of the main discussion isnt it?

As for the point raised

I never get good results using peasants as part of the pin and maneuver technique, but thats because ive always used the stronger force as the pinning force and the weaker as the maneuver element, I must try it your way, any advice on how to get the peasants to last a little longer before routing though?

[Severous]

Use your Generals horn. It adds a morale boost to troops in range (who can hear it)

[PapaNasty]

Keep the General close behind them, my armies are normally well supplied with cavalry, so the general is used as a moral booster or emergency butt kicker :) Also manouver your flanking force before engaging with the peasants. sometimes the AI will notice your flankers (they notice infantry more than cavalry it seems) and move to intercept them, which gives your peasants a prime flank to hit. While they turn and engage the peasants, which takes a few seconds, you normally have enough time to move the infantry into position and counter-attack.

Doesnt work well against a phalanx battle line though as your infantry takes too long to flank. peasants are good for drawing them out of line, which makes them vulnerable to flank attacks.

I've found smaller battles involving peasants and cavalry work well. Several times playing as the Selucids i've come out on top when using a force of Peasants, Mercenary Arab Cavalry and Mercenary Camel Archers ( 1 unit each) against Nile Spearmen, Archers and whatever cavalry the have. Changed my opinion of peasants slightly, even though they were used as fodder hehe.