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Banquo's Ghost
01-16-2007, 15:04
The joys of democracy are hard to bear. This collection of lovelies (http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2157360.ece) have come together to plan world domination from the European Parliament.

I suppose that at least we know where they all are and the Euro parliament has all the power of the duracell bunny - they just drone on and on and on.

I am reminded of this (http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode12.htm#5)however:


A grotty Italian café. Sign above it read 'Axis Café, Italian Food a Specialty'. A figure clearly belonging to Mussolini is nailing up a sign or poster which reads: 'Vote for Hitler'. He looks around and goes into the café furtively. At this moment past the café come Hitler, Von Ribbentrop and Himmler on bikes. Hitler at the front shouting German through a megaphone. Von Ribbentrop at the back with a large banner 'Hilter for a better Meinhead'. Himmler in the middle with an old grammophone playing 'Deutschland Über Alles'.

Cut to Hitler ranting in German on a balcony with Himmler at his side. Beneath them is a Nazi flag.

Hitler I am not a racialist, but, und this is a big but, we in the National Bocialist Party believe das Überleben muss gestammen sein mit der schneaky Armstrong-Jones. Historische Taunton ist Volkermeinig von Meinhead.

Himmler (stepping forward) Mr Hitler, Hilter, he says that historically Taunton is a part of Minehead already.

Shot of a yokel looking disbelievingly at balcony. Von Ribbentrop appears behind.

Von Ribbentrop He's right, do you know that?

Meanwhile back on the balcony.

Hitler (very excited) Und Bridgwater ist die letzte Fühlung das wir haben in Somerset!

Over this we hear loud applause and 'Sieg Heils'. The yokel, who is not applauding, turns round rather surprised to see whence cometh the applause. He sees Von Ribbentrop operating a grammophone.
Cut to vox pops.

Interviewer (voice over) What do you think of Mr Hilter's politics?

Yokel I don't like the sound of these 'ere boncentration bamps.

Pepperpot Well, I gave him my baby to kiss and he bit it on the head.

Stockbroker Well, I think he'd do a lot of good to the Stock Exchange

Gypsy-haters, holocaust-deniers, xenophobes, homophobes, anti-semites: the EU's new political force

By Stephen Castle in Strasbourg
Published: 16 January 2007

Europe's far-right, xenophobic and extremist parties crossed a new threshold yesterday, winning more speaking time, money, and political influence in the European Parliament than ever before.

Claiming the backing of 23 million Europeans, ultra-nationalists secured enough MEPs to make a formal political grouping, underlining the growing challenge posed by the far right across the continent. For the first time since the Second World War a series of elections has swept nationalistic, far-right parties into office in municipal, regional, national and European parliament elections. The admission of Romania and Bulgaria in January of this year brought in enough far-right MEPs to form a bloc.

Mainstream politicians have been struggling for years to contain the threat from hardline nationalists and extremists who have entered coalitions or supported ruling governments in countries such as Austria, Denmark, Poland and Slovakia.

Amid formal protests and jeers in the Strasbourg Parliament, 20 MEPs yesterday signed up to the new formation called Identity, Tradition, Sovereignty (ITS). As a formal group, they are entitled to up to €1m in central funding. It is led by Bruno Gollnisch of France's National Front, who is awaiting a court verdict on charges of Holocaust denial.

Made up of ultra-nationalists the group includes one Bulgarian parliamentarian, Dimitar Stoyanov, who yesterday attacked the "Jewish establishment" and accused Roma parents of selling 12-year-olds into prostitution.

Even the ringtone of Mr Stoyanov's phone points to his hardline politics. It features a former Bulgarian national anthem which, he says, "tells of the atrocities of the Turkish army in the second Balkan war, how the rivers were flowing with blood and the widows weeping, and urges people to fight for Bulgaria".

A previous far-right grouping in the European Parliament faltered in the 1980s and rival MEPs predict that ITS will have a limited impact on the Strasbourg assembly.

Martin Schulz, leader of the socialist group which is the second-largest in the Parliament, appealed to other MEPs to unite to prevent ITS from securing senior positions in Strasbourg. He said: "We must not abandon this Parliament, which symbolises the integration of Europe, to those who deny all European values."

The new political group was established despite efforts by socialist MEPs to block its formation. One British MEP, Ashley Mote, has joined the group. A former Ukip member, Mr Mote was suspended from that party in 2004 when he faced prosecution for housing benefit fraud and has since sat as an independent.

Prominent members of the far-right alliance include Jean-Marie Le Pen, veteran member of the French National Front, who shocked Europe by reaching the second stage of the last French presidential elections, Alessandra Mussolini, granddaughter of Benito Mussolini, Frank Vanhecke, leader of Belgium's separatist Flemish nationalist party, Vlaams Belang, and Andreas Mölzer, a former aide to the Austrian far-right leader, Jörg Haider.

Under the Parliament's rules a formal grouping requires 20 MEPs from at least six countries. That requirement was reached only after Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU this month.

As MEPs converged on Strasbourg, Mr Stoyanov, who at 23 is the Parliament's youngest member, claimed the ITS had crossed a threshold of power. "We will be able to table amendments," said Mr Stoyanov. "We will have longer speaking time in the plenary sessions and, eventually, we will win chairman, or deputy chairman, positions on committees." Mr Stoyanov, of Bulgaria's Ataka party, denied being anti-Semitic but said he opposed the " Jewish establishment" which used ordinary Jewish people "like pawns" .

In the parliamentary chamber Mr Gollnisch claimed that the new group " will speak on behalf of 23 million Europeans who would not be represented without us".

He added: "We will be the Parliament's conscience. We will be vigilant defenders of the peoples and nations of Europe who want our continent and civilisation to be great."

The sweep of extremism in expanded Europe

Romania

Party: Partidul Romania Mare (Greater Romania)
Leader: Corneliu Vadim Tudor
No. of MEPs: 5

Has five ITS members, all from racist, homophobic Greater Romania party, a, nationalist organisation that voted against joining the EU. Among other things, the party despises ethnic Hungarians, Jews and Romas.

United Kingdom

Party: N/A (Independent)
No. of MEPs: 1

British membership of ITS is limited to South East England’s independent MEP Ashley Mote. Mr Mote first entered European politics with UKIP but was ejected in 2004 after being tried for benefit fraud.

Austria

Party: Austrian Freedom Party (Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs)
Leader: Heinz-Christian Strache
No. of MEPs: One

The Austrian Freedom Party, which Jorg Haider made a household name is still winning votes even after his departure. The FP promises stronger anti-immigration laws, stricter law enforcement and more funds for families.

Italy

Party: Alternativa Sociale, Fiamme Tricolore
Leaders: Alessandra Mussolini and Luca Romagnoli respectively
No. of MEPs: 2

MEPs Alessandra Mussolini, and Luca Romagnoli are both remnants of the Fascist party that ruled Italy for two decades. Mussolini, grand-daughter of Il Duce, is a former glamour model. Neither enjoy mainstream support.

A long-cherished ambition, and a step further than before

Yesterday's developments are the culmination of a long-cherished ambition by Europe's far-right parties to form a recognised bloc in the European Parliament. They have had self-declared groups before, notably when Jean-Marie Le Pen of France's National Front led an alliance called the European Right in Strasbourg in 1984-89, followed by the Technical Group of the European Right in 1989-94. On the ground and away from the parliament, the far right has prospered in several countries since the mid-Eighties. In Austria, Jörg Haider emerged in 1986 as leader of the Freedom Party. The Swiss People's Party, led by Christoph Blocher, became Switzerland's second-strongest political force in 1999. In Denmark, the ultra-right Danish People's Party swept into parliament as the country's third-largest party following the 2001 elections. In Italy, the xenophobic Northern League entered a right-wing coalition in the same year. In Belgium, far-right Flemish separatists have gained support throughout the decade, and the Netherlands was convulsed by the rise of the populist anti-immigration campaigner, Pim Fortuyn.

rory_20_uk
01-16-2007, 16:50
No one wants the EU. Countries like Switzerland have treaties so they get the benefits but not the cost. Oddly enough with this farce people turn to the far Right who tend to be Nationalistic (and basically against the EU). For some / many this might be an incentive enough with the other aspects of policies subdued to the domestic market.

Close the EU down. It's a waste of time and money. Things should develop as they are wanted, not be forced into some hideous politically inspired chimera like it is at the moment.

~:smoking:

IrishArmenian
01-19-2007, 03:34
Ah, the EU. I thought they all went underground after the second World War. I hear there are a lot in Brazil.

Watchman
01-19-2007, 05:24
Mengele was in the Buenos Aires municipal phone book or something along those lines.

Anyway, xenophobic populists crawling out of the woodwork in a period of painful socioeconomical changes and general uncertainty aren't anything new. Scapegoats always make people feel better.

Although the foreign-affairs analysts in the local main newspaper here suspect the whole formal block thingy to functionally be Le Pen's dastardly campaign schtick, and suggested not betting too much on the whole thing still standing next year.

Geoffrey S
01-19-2007, 10:04
I just loved the fact that it needed EU expansion to actually become possible. :laugh4:

Cronos Impera
01-19-2007, 10:28
Hold on, Romanian nationalists aren't like Nazis or Fascists, ready for genocides and segregation of all sorts.Since the old Far-Right died at the hands of the communist leaders, the new "far-right" has a far-weaker message like "We will get MP chairs no matter how many opposition members we have to walk over. Our greatest far-right figure, C.V. Tudor was a communist ass-kisser who embraced an anti-jewish message just so he could win attention from the media, than he filled his party with jewish members and even erected a monument to Ytzac Rabin.There are no serious far-right members in Romania, only boot-lickers and opportunists.
Romanian gypsy-haters don't talk about genocides or segregation, they talk about gypsy thefts and unjust privilages. Socialists in Romania during the Ceausescu era gave the gypsies many important privilages like: 10% out of all high-school seats are reserved for gypsies and gypsies taking by force residences in down-town Bucharest. They don't want the gypsies gone, they want them civilized and privilages taken away from this socially-irresponsible people who curse with every word. A gypie quote to illustrate that "Death to your fammily if this isn't true"
Besides, I might remind you that the tziganii (Gypsies come from Egyptians and Roma from Byzantines) are a different kind of issue alltoghether in Romania than is Spain where you don't see .
Some may be okay but the majority of the tzigan population lives on gouvernment allowences and petty crime. They marry their childern at the age of 14 years and pirandas (tzigan name for spouse) produce 3-5 children during their lifetime, all so they can recieve government aid to raise their children.After they have a childern they would usually dress him in dirty clothes and start begging at city corners. Sometimes their children have an arm cut or some disease so they would stir more empathy. Although they can afford education (look at the village below filled with villas) they avoid it and some wealty tzigans even hire drivers because they can't read. If you look at tzigan parties you'ss see pirandas in diamonds and gold but living in a filty house without a proper sewage system because they don't see the benefits of plumming and sanitation.
A tzigan child in elementary school is considered an intelectual by his community

Some "Roma" pictures (note that most of this luxurios Moghul-like residences are built by people considered by the EU as poor and segregated. They don't even know what they are talking about)
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Pix/gallery/2001/01/29/Gypsyvillage.jpg
http://www.virtualarad.net/news/2005/palate_tiganesti_asteapta_sa_fie_terminate_si_in_covasanti.jpg

Also, note the tzigan on the right (crowned King of Manele, a tzigan music "genre" that steals arabian-turkoman rythms and puts some lame verses about his stash of gold at home and how many children he has and how he cheated on the IRS) has a 10.000 euro crown, 10 palaces, a Rolls Royce limo in the most poverty-stricken area of Romania.
http://www.colorsmagazine.com/issues/colors64/images/11/11_03.jpg


Note, this post isn't racist, this post is a fact-box for the gypsie ethnicity in Romania.

BDC
01-19-2007, 10:32
There is a certain irony that super-nationalistics are forming a group in the EU parliament. They should be boycotting it or something.

Not impressed that ex-UKIP idiot was let in though.

Watchman
01-19-2007, 10:34
...right.

Card-carrying member, are you Cronos ?

Cronos Impera
01-19-2007, 10:42
Well, this is the Roma ethnicity that Bulgarian MP was talking about, fat and lazy people who want to be called a nation but fail to produce anything that is authentic.
But the EU still sees them as people to be integrated and Romania is forced to spend even more money to integrate them and the Roma still don't care as long as they are given money.

Geoffrey S
01-19-2007, 10:46
That's right Cronos, your right-wing nationalists are so much better than those elsewhere.

Your views on the Roma reek of the foul 'facts' spread in pre-war Nazi propaganda against the Jews, with the same vicious lies and spiteful conjecture, and I find it disgusting.

Cronos Impera
01-19-2007, 10:57
Geh, there are no Romanian nationalists, only boot-lickers seeking more publicity. Come to Romania and walk to Buzescu ( a mix Roma-Romanian village). The whole village is divided (between wealthy Roma living in palaces and Romanian living in normal housing). They build those palaces by not paying taxes and getting aid from humanitarian funds.
What Tzigans have:
gold
lots of money
palaces

What Tzigans lack:
common sense
education
respect for the country they live in

If you dan't agree with me, come to Romania and let me give you a tour of those poor discriminated people.

Watchman
01-19-2007, 11:02
Correction to the previous: a honorary member.

Wonder if you ever gave much thought about where exactly the present situation might stem from...?

Cronos Impera
01-19-2007, 11:25
Hmm, Tzigans love two things: horses and pity-points.
When a Tzigan ends up in hospital for a reason or another the whole community gathers in the waiting room to intimidate the doctors. If a Tzigan is arrested the whole Tzigan community gathers outside the police station (spouses show their intimate parts to the policemen and curse them). So their social structure is more like the Borg, they assimilate but don't end up assimilated instead). We've had more luck with afro-americans (see photo evidence (http://www.voua.ro/mici/indexGrup.jpg) ) in Bucharest to speak a Romanian properly than we had with Tzigans for two centuries since they ware first officially recognized as an ethnicity. Their language is a vulgar cocktail of greek-hungarian-bulgarian.
When they try to emmigrate to another country they'll blame the goverment for "segregation" and ask for political asylum. Check the jumbo jets full of illegal immigrants Romania and most of them will be tzigans.That is the truth about tzigans. They abuse their "Human Rights" for profit and media coverage and thus the authorities are forced to give them what they want (money and more money)

Geoffrey S
01-19-2007, 11:44
Yeah, and I'm sure they're all hook-nosed, too.

Nope, still haven't seen anything other than spiteful invective.

Fragony
01-19-2007, 11:53
I'd say someone who is actually from there would know what he is talking about.

edit, that wasn't necesary.

Geoffrey S
01-19-2007, 12:29
So many people don't know what they're talking about, even with regards to their own country. Fragony, I disagree with a number of your opinions, but respect the way in which you present them and attempt to back them up. From Cronos all I've seen is invective...

hey marry their childern at the age of 14 years and pirandas (tzigan name for spouse) produce 3-5 children during their lifetime, all so they can recieve government aid to raise their children.After they have a childern they would usually dress him in dirty clothes and start begging at city corners. Sometimes their children have an arm cut or some disease so they would stir more empathy.

A tzigan child in elementary school is considered an intelectual by his community

Well, this is the Roma ethnicity that Bulgarian MP was talking about, fat and lazy people who want to be called a nation but fail to produce anything that is authentic.

Well, this is the Roma ethnicity that Bulgarian MP was talking about, fat and lazy people who want to be called a nation but fail to produce anything that is authentic.

So their social structure is more like the Borg, they assimilate but don't end up assimilated instead). We've had more luck with afro-americans (see photo evidence ) in Bucharest to speak a Romanian properly than we had with Tzigans for two centuries since they ware first officially recognized as an ethnicity. Their language is a vulgar cocktail of greek-hungarian-bulgarian.
Nationalism is fine by me, as long as it is backed up by verifiable facts and the proponents can present at least some decency. I've seen neither here, and while the Roma may be a problem in Romania such statements as the above quotes are pure hatemongering and do not belong on a forum such as this one.

doc_bean
01-19-2007, 12:44
Just because the leaders have castles it doesn't mean the people aren't suffering. Look at Congo and most of Africa.

caravel
01-19-2007, 12:54
Gypsies are not from egypt, that is a myth passed on since medieval times. They probably originated somewhere around the punjab.

Fragony
01-19-2007, 12:55
Nationalism is fine by me, as long as it is backed up by verifiable facts and the proponents can present at least some decency. I've seen neither here, and while the Roma may be a problem in Romania such statements as the above quotes are pure hatemongering and do not belong on a forum such as this one.

Fair enough, and thanks!

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but I have plenty of experience with Roma's because of my line of work, and it has consistantly been negative ones. I forgot the word, but there is a word for professional begging. I have had people dropping on the floor crying, clutching my shoes, it was horrible. When I did try equipment was stolen, each and every time. Now, if a name sounded even remotely hungarian or bulgarian I did't even bother anymore just to be sure, that is how bad it was.

Cronos Impera
01-19-2007, 12:56
Geoffrey, I didn't use any racist-xenophobic remarks. Have you even seen a Tzigan before? I guess in the West some soap-opera fans love to hear stories about segregated ethnic groups living at the edge of poverty under a communist-nationalist regime and the brutal tirany of Darcula and Ceausescu.

Romania

Party: Partidul Romania Mare (Greater Romania)
Leader: Corneliu Vadim Tudor
No. of MEPs: 5

Has five ITS members, all from racist, homophobic Greater Romania party, a, nationalist organisation that voted against joining the EU. Among other things, the party despises ethnic Hungarians, Jews and Romas.


This party is a Nostradamus Soap Opera fan-club with recycled ex-communist members who like to think they are the victims of a world-wide Mafia conspiracy. But the fact is they don't have a nationalist messge. Their leader is a news-spammer who likes to talk about fighting a mob, building a special prison for politicans with all the comforts of home and loving stray....he likes to think he's fighting the Mafia. He also passed through all the political spectrum (communism-nationalism-filosemitism).
Why do some people call the party anti-hungarian? Because a GRP mayor who ran a city with a considerable hungarian population painted the whole city in red, yellow and blue ( the colours of the Romanian flag).That annoyed the somewhat-separatist MDUR (The Magyar Democratic Union of Romania) and the message you all got is that Romania is a xenophobic place. Judging by the same standards all americans would be called nationalists because they flash their red, white and blue flag anytime and anywhere the can.

Ser Clegane
01-19-2007, 12:57
This thread is closed (at least for the time being) as it is obviously (ab)used to make to slander an ethnic group as a whole