Another New Unit - What is it?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Ok, here is another one.

I'll ask the same questions:
1. What is the unit name?
2. What faction does the unit belong to?
3. What artist modelled and skinned the unit? (harder, but some folks may have some guesses)

Decided to keep changing some things though in the way we'll present it to you. You get it all correct and you can see the whole thing:


https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8223/guess2cb7.png

[Eduorius]

I am almost sure that this must be the Getai Lesser General, bit I am really not sure who did this amazing job. :sweatdrop:

I will say SpiritofRob. I will start to appreciate more the art this guys do with models.


Thanks and I hope it is correct =)

[Tuuvi]

I am guessing it is either a getai, galatian or possibly(but not likely) a celtic unit.

[CountArach]

I am guessing it is either a getai, galatian or possibly(but not likely) a celtic unit.

Well the Galatains are based heavily on teh Celtic units, so it may be either of them, or neither.

I am going to say a Galatian Swordsmen, Seleukids, SpiritofRob

Also, is this a reskin or an entirely new unit, Teleklos?

[Mithradates VI]

Ok, here is another one.

I'll ask the same questions:
1. What is the unit name?
2. What faction does the unit belong to?
3. What artist modelled and skinned the unit? (harder, but some folks may have some guesses)

Decided to keep changing some things though in the way we'll present it to you. You get it all correct and you can see the whole thing:


https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8223/guess2cb7.png


My guess is some sort of Iberian unit, a heavy swordsman.

Either that, or a Casse unit, because of the bronze. Also, heavy swordsman. I don't know enough Celtic/Lusotannan to make a guess at the unit name:book:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Not a reskin for sure.

[Fondor_Yards]

1. Celtberian Swordsman
2. Lusotannan
3. erm, Aymar de Bois Mauri? *he does the Iberian skins does he not?*

Come on, daddy needs a new pair of shoes...

Edit: Curse you Mithradates VI for posting it being iberian first, and curse my slow posting

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I must say that I have no idea.

[Julian the apostate]

could be sabean the thing thats baffling me is the helmet it looks like it curves up like it would be something around the bosporous

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Ooo. This is better than I thought. Nobody has gotten it yet. :grin: I can't wait to show the full unit!

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I've got it:
You designed it!

[QwertyMIDX]

Ooo. This is better than I thought. Nobody has gotten it yet. :grin: I can't wait to show the full unit!

Not only have they not gotten it, they're getting colder and colder. *evil laughter*

[fallen851]

I KNOW IT! PICK ME!

At least I think...

I've been making EB general skins, and based on the small red circles:

1: General?
2: Pontus
3: SPW (whoever that is...)

I doubt it is the general, but whatever. The armor seems similar to the bodyguard skin he created "EBUNIT_SPW_EASTERN_EARLY_BODYGUARD_PONTIC.TGA"

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Reminds me of the briton champions.

[Thaatu]

Zulu warrior with a golden scale mail and a shotgun!

...could be wrong though.

And his nose must be huge.

[HFox]

1. Grace Jones
2. High Fashion
3. Dolce & Gabbana or possibly Gucci?I havent got a clue but i was thinking bronze scales so maybe pontic or bactrian

[keravnos]

Zulu warrior with a golden scale mail and a shotgun!

...could be wrong though.

And his nose must be huge.

You are on to something there. Considering the fact that this guy will knock your socks off, when you see the model in question..! :laugh4: :yes:

[Rilder]

1: Unit name: Teleklos Archelaou
2: Eb team
3: The gods.

[Geoffrey S]

1. Sabean general
2. Saba
3. Aymar

?

[Tarquinius]

Getai lesser general
Getai
Spirit_of_Rob

[Bava]

Hm, lets see...

Bronze scale, bronze greaves, white cloak, richly ornamented long sword with round tip, oval/round shield, bronze phrygian style (???) helmet.


Perhaps one eastern faction unit with a hellenic touch?


1.Heavy Infantry (sort of noble footmen?)
2.Saka Rauka
3. a new guy ~D

[Sdragon]

Kind of reminds me of the Helvetii sea of spears unit.
Then again he's wareing scale so he MUST be Selucid! :laugh4:

[paullus]

1: Unit name: Teleklos Archelaou
2: Eb team
3: The gods.

hehe. Its like the responses are making an orbit...they come close to the correct answer and then go hurtling off into the great beyond!

[Oleo]

1. Heavy swordsmen
2. Pontus, (cause it looks a bit like the chalkaspidai and Saka has been mentioned three posts up, so I dont want to say that.)
3. King Assurbanipal, cause he did a nice application to the team a while ago and might be new and popping out some nice new units and because this one is hard to guess, so no spartan warrior or spirit_of_rob.

[Grand Lord of Poop~]

1. GAY-satae reloaded

2. Teleklos' imaginary uncensored faction

3. Teleklos, of course we all know he is an excellent pervert modder

~D

btw: sorry no offense to you TK, if you do find it offending, i shall remove it

[Grand Lord of Poop~]

1: Unit name: Teleklos Archelaou
2: Eb team
3: The gods.

haha lol that one got me laughin' :laugh4:

[Imperator]

I heard TA talking about a recently added Saka unit soooo...

1) Saka heavy infantry/foot nobles (maybe not from homelands or from conquered territories)
2)Saka-Rauka
3) Aymaur? Spirit_of_Rob? Teleknos? i don't know this one...do I still get a prize if I'm right?:sweatdrop:

EDIT- darn it! Bavarian beat me to it. not again!!!:furious3:

[Oleo]

EDIT- darn it! Bavarian beat me to it. not again!!!:furious3:

I know the feeling, he did the same to me...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

-Gosh guys, two of you have gotten really close with the unit, but didn't hit it exactly.
-Someone has guessed the faction (a few people really).
-No one has named the artist. This will be the first unit of ours that he has done, but we have mentioned that he is on the team now, so Bavarian got the last part closest so far.

Won't reveal it till that unit is guessed though. The hint is that exactly two people have guessed something really close but not exactly.

[Boyar Son]

Eastern? Hellan? no one really thinks this unit is not from Baktria (Bartix) instead of a barbarian nation?

[Zaknafien]

1. Bartix Armored Ninja
2. Arche Bartix
3. The Unnamable One

[spirit_of_rob]

I will say SpiritofRob. I will start to appreciate more the art this guys do with models.


Thank you but its not mine im afraid

[Zaknafien]

you guys have gotten tantalizingly close, however..

[Fondor_Yards]

Should have gone with my first instinct....bah....

1. Half Saka Half Greek Assault Infantry
2. Saka
3. ERm...Kali?

[Julian the apostate]

BARTIX WOULD NEVER ALLOW SUCH MONGRELS INTO THEIR ARMY, plus the selukid influence wouldn't on their small island off arabia.

The shield looks like it'd be something closer to the mediteranian or a little north but not as far east as the Saka. plus the white fringe around the neck makes me think it could be some sort of saka religious unit as the team said that the saba had a rather vicously advancing religion.

war priesty guy
sabean
i don't know the team that well, i will guess THE NEW GUY, whoever you are

[Barnabas]

I'll take a stab in the dark. :)

I hope it is a unit for Pontus. I can dream, right? :book:

1 Dorikim Agemata / Doryphoroi Pontikoi
2 Pontus
3 antiochus epiphanes

[Bava]

EDIT- darn it! Bavarian beat me to it. not again!!!



I know the feeling, he did the same to me...


So I´m the official forum bad guy now? Oh, the joy....~D


If its not a noble footman, perhaps the unit consists of the Saka Rauka/Hellenic
ruling class ( offspring of Saka nobles/Hellenes)?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Not only have they not gotten it, they're getting colder and colder. *evil laughter*
If this statement was taken to its logical conclusion, some hint could also be derived from it. It is exactly accurate.

[The Celt]

Wazsup n00bs? Celt's first post! :book:


Hmmmm....well lets see....I guessed an Iberian or Irish unit at TWC but now I'm starting to think its Arabic(Saba). TA didn't you not mention somewhere that the Saba were going to receive a couple more units or was that the Lusitanians? Of course I'm not sure a Saba would run around barelegged in the desert mountains of S.Arabia. I could be wrong though so I'll go with......Late post-Roman Sabean Warrior!:idea2:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Well, Saba still will be getting a number of units for sure (by 1.0 - I honestly don't remember if they have a "forgotten" unit in 0.81). But I will say that this is not one of them. Hope you enjoy the forum over here. It's a pretty active bunch.

[The Celt]

Darn it I was so sure! :( Ahwell, now I'm intrigued even more! :egypt:
And yes, this forum is nice, I always liked coming to the .org, its just that there was so much more going on at TWC.(Now it looks like too much is going on)

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

A couple random guesses:

Saka archer cataphract

Lusatanii irishmen

[Eduorius]

Teleklos when can we say our second guess? :book:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I'll put a new image up in a few hours with more revealed.

[Slider6977]

1 Galatian mercenary heavy infantry
2 Lusotannan
3 Billy everyteen

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Here are some more sections revealed:

https://img395.imageshack.us/img395/8687/guess2b7el.png

Again, as the guesses have continued, things have gotten colder. What direction does that lead you in then?

[Eduorius]

Well here is my second guess.

1) Its a Lesser General or Officer.
2) Getai
3) Caius Brittanicus.

I am certain he is Getai because of his helmet showing Thracian and Sarmatian influence. His scale armor also shows Sarmatian influence. The falx have been changed by a sword showing that he must be a command person.

The wild guess is who did this because as I said before I never have paid too much attention to who does this magnificent art. My guess its Caius Brittanicus because of the Hellenic standard bearers, but really I have no clue.

Well hope it is correct. :beam:

[paullus]

Well, the standard bearers were Spirit of Rob (correct me please if that's wrong...) and Caius does not work with us. However, it is a VERY talented skinner, so if you look around elsewhere, you may find some of his work for other mods.

[Puupertti Ruma]

Been doing some deducting.


If this statement was taken to its logical conclusion, some hint could also be derived from it. It is exactly accurate.

Before this the guesses wen't from getai to galatia to iberia. So if we go west and it goes colder, we should go to west. Iberian was my first guess, but well...


-Gosh guys, two of you have gotten really close with the unit, but didn't hit it exactly.
-Someone has guessed the faction (a few people really).


Before this there was two very similar guesses:


Hm, lets see...

Bronze scale, bronze greaves, white cloak, richly ornamented long sword with round tip, oval/round shield, bronze phrygian style (???) helmet.

Perhaps one eastern faction unit with a hellenic touch?

1.Heavy Infantry (sort of noble footmen?)
2.Saka Rauka
3. a new guy ~D


I heard TA talking about a recently added Saka unit soooo...

1) Saka heavy infantry/foot nobles (maybe not from homelands or from conquered territories)
2)Saka-Rauka
3) Aymaur? Spirit_of_Rob? Teleknos? i don't know this one...do I still get a prize if I'm right?:sweatdrop:

EDIT- darn it! Bavarian beat me to it. not again!!!:furious3:

You can't go much more east than Saka, and TA said there were 2 very close guesses, so my guess is:

1. Saka General
2. Saka-Rauka
3. The new guy (EB's the only mod I watch, so if they don't tell I won't know)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Smart work PR, but you didn't hit gold this time. Apply the logic again and you might get it. At least you're thinking in the right direction.

[Geoffrey S]

Second guess. The scales definitely indicate an eastern influence, and the model appears too high-poly and individually detailed to be anything but a general or officer unit. Helmet is puzzling, since it looks like something the Getai would have.

- Pontic lesser general
- Pontus
- antiochus epiphanes

Actually, half-wondering if it's a Galatian officer due to the sword. A curious mix of styles here.

[Thaatu]

I'm pretty sure it's one of the Power Rangers, I just can't figure out which one. Judging by the camouflage skirt and the shotgun, it must be the Yellow Revolutionary Power Ranger from Cuba. :thinking:

If I'm wrong just say it to my face, I can't stand the suspense.

[Danest]

He must be ptolemaic or seleucid. Unless the Saka or Sarmatians have some kind of heavy foot unit. ;) But I'll go with Ptolemaic, or something close to that area.

[Eduorius]

Not only have they not gotten it, they're getting colder and colder. *evil laughter*

If we are getting colder and colder is not beacause of the climate in were this new unit is. After the first guess of Getai, then it came Galatia, Iberia, and Saba if we went south. How can this be because of climate?:help:

Now he have a Thracian helmet, but the helmet shows also Sarmatian influence. Scale armor can be tricky because even it is mostly used by Eastern factions, it is also used in the West by some "Barbarian" factions.

If he is no Getai, then I have no clue.

[Orb]

Sauromatae lesser general
Saromatae
Themagicskinninggenieswhichworkforeb

[Sdragon]

Some sort of rebel unit from around the Bosporus area mabey? Or the rebel factions general? Or do they have a model already?

[Bava]

Uh, at least i guessed the phyrgian style helmet so it has to be somewhere around the north eastern part of the mediterranian (and perhaps the black sea).

The thing that puzzles me the most about the helmet is that his face seems covered with scale, too. Do we get another "tank" unit like the thorakitai agyraspidai and the lusotanian one? That would be sweeeeeet!






Argghh, forget what i wrote above, its one of the powerpuff girls....:captain:

[QwertyMIDX]

I think waiting for them for get the artist is pretty unfair. Have we even shown any of his EB work in public before?

[Bava]

I think TA mentioned his name once in a post and as far as i remeber he said that this unit is his first submission for EB. The only one i can think of would be
king louisse assurbarnipal...

[Birka Viking]

I think it is.. Pahlavian Heavy foot soldier and Pahlav and skinner is PROMETHEUS??

[Sarcasm]

PROMETHEUS...is taking a leave of absence, so to speak.

[Zaknafien]

I agree with Qwerty, and also I think they have a "mental block" on guessing correctly due to what the image "lacks" in this picture.. if you know what I mean...

man, this is so evil and delightful.

[Fondor_Yards]

Darn if not a hybrid mix....
1. Massagetan Heavy Infantry
2. Saka
3. Heh given up on this part...

[Bava]

[...]due to what the image "lacks" in this picture..[...]


:charge:

A horse, perhaps?

But a noble cav without a spear doesnt make much sense to me...:gah:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

We're not waiting for them to get the artist, are we? I thought we were waiting on them to actually name the unit. Several people have had the faction. I haven't seen the unit named yet though - unless I missed it.

The artist is known maybe best for his Romans, btw.
And Bavarian might be on to something again.

[Fondor_Yards]

And Bavarian might be on to something again.

Oh thats just evil.

[QwertyMIDX]

We're not waiting for them to get the artist, are we? I thought we were waiting on them to actually name the unit. Several people have had the faction. I haven't seen the unit named yet though - unless I missed it.

The artist is known maybe best for his Romans, btw.
And Bavarian might be on to something again.


Yeah I guess so. A couple of people were hella close but.

[Lovejoy]

Its a pontic chariot(sp) dude? Hehe.

Made by that other dude. :sweatdrop:

[Oleo]

Cappadocian noble cavalry then??

[Tarquinius]

Mounted Getai lesser general
Getai
The new man

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah I guess so. A couple of people were hella close but.
Yeah, they keep doing it too. :grin: Should we just go ahead and give it to them?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Yeah, they keep doing it too. :grin: Should we just go ahead and give it to them?
Please save us any more of this agony, tell us and show us, please! The anticipation is killing me.

[Geoffrey S]

Sarmatian general then, I suppose. Wouldn't know who did it if he hasn't already been named.

[Bava]

Should we just go ahead and give it to them?


Yes!

[Teleklos Archelaou]

By saying over and over, that the guesses have gotten colder along the way, we mean to indicate that the very first guess was the hottest one. :grin: Might as well just come out and say it.

[Laundreu]

Getai Lesser General by Prometheus?

[Zaknafien]

:laugh4: :wall:

[Sarcasm]

Is there an echo in here? :dizzy2:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It's close, but that's not it. We don't care about the creator of the unit at this point (well, we certainly do, but not in your guesses). Someone will get the unit now quickly we hope though and all will be revealed. :2thumbsup:

[Hydromorph]

1.Getai
2. General

1. Getai
2. Royal Guard (General Body Guard)

[paullus]

sheesh, finally...anyone wanna get the artist? you'll be seeing some fine work from this guy, he does really impressive stuff!

[Bonny]

Maybe we should guve a hint and say how he joined eb?

[Bava]

Or which mods he is working for (besides eb o/c)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yep - you got it with your first post Hydro. :2thumbsup:

Anyone know whose work this is? :grin:
https://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4852/guess2reveal2sy.jpg

[Bava]

Hm, you said he´s known for his romans. KALI perhaps?

[Kugutsu]

Wow!

No idea who it is, but that is an amazing skin! Keep up the good work, and I look forward to seeing more units from the mystery skinner in the future!

[Eduorius]

What is the prize?

I told Getai Lesser General, but I suppose I had to be more concrete. The same occured to me in the RTR forum were I said Sarmatian Lancer and it was Sarmatian Heavy Lancer.:wall:

I am getting better every time in this type of contests. Next time it will be mine. :yes:

I edit to say awesome model, but those legs are a bit short and fat ;)
Nah must be the grieves.

[MeinPanzer]

Yep - you got it with your first post Hydro. :2thumbsup:

Anyone know whose work this is? :grin:
https://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4852/guess2reveal2sy.jpg

Wow, that's a beautiful skin.

[Bava]

Am i blind? I cant see anything new...

[Zaknafien]

I cant see it in this thread either.. what gives?

[Bava]

I think its time to kill some cute little bunnies...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I can see it - even in a reply. It's on imageshack. Here is the link:
https://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4852/guess2reveal2sy.jpg

[Lovejoy]

Wow, really nice skin. Who made it?

The face is too good though! :D It almost looks real, and dont really fit into the unit! Really! Its wierd, never seen anything like it!

Keep up the good work - and give the creater some cred!

[Geoffrey S]

Nope, can't see it, not even on the direct link.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Here it is on another link:
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7654/guess2reveal0ts.th.jpg (https://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=guess2reveal0ts.jpg)

[Justiciar]

I'd say it's King Louise Assurbanipal's work. Certainly looks like it.

[Watchman]

So... manly. :biker:

[Justiciar]

I must admit.. I'm not too fond of the face. Though I do like this kind of style, it just seems so alien to the rest of EB's units. :embarassed:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It's xprime guys. That's his style - he works with a lot of detail, and he's perfect for our Getai generals, (all generals) which are at a higher resolution than regular units. His faces do look a little different than most EB ones, but we're thrilled with the unit overall and we don't usually demand faces look exactly like others used so far in the mod - as long as they aren't bizarre. If it were a low level skirmisher or even any other unit where you've got a lot of them looking exactly like that, it might be a problem, but you'll see only one of these most of the time, so it doesn't seem to us to be a big issue.

[spirit_of_rob]

for the most part skinners tend to use vanilla faces with alterations e.g adding beards moustaches this kind of thing, because quite frankly faces are a nightmare

[Thaatu]

Holy...! I didn't know so richly detailed models/textures were even possible in RTW. It's setting new standards (and a lot of pressure to other modellers :sweatdrop: ).

[Lucasiewicz]

that skin is impressive. I almost feel like wanting to wear it myself!

[Bava]

Ah, i can see it now, thanks for the new link, TA. Felt a bit like the priest in Eric
the Viking when the others entered Valhalla and he just thought "What the hell are they talking about...?"

But was worth the wait, beautifull work, xprime!


I wouldnt mind to have that skin for my char in Mount&Blade ...~D

[Oleo]

Sorry to say, it doesnt look that great to me. The quality of the work is good of course, I wonder how it will look in a getai army though. Oh well, we'll see, it might turn out great after all.

p.s. what is a 'lesser' general?

[paullus]

that guy is the family member.

a lesser general is the general on the battlefield when a family member is not present, and he looks different.

[Oleo]

that guy is the family member.

a lesser general is the general on the battlefield when a family member is not present, and he looks different.

Basicly the captains of the campaign map is what you call lesser generals.. Tnx.

[Eduorius]

If the unit is still not done I suggest that the Dacian family member general should use this helmet. :idea2:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Royal_Dacian_Helmet_Cotofenesti.jpg


This helmet is even in this awesome movie of the 60s =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LXyfnGb8_I&NR


Thanks for your time.

[Laundreu]

If the unit is still not done I suggest that the Dacian family member general should use this helmet. :idea2:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Royal_Dacian_Helmet_Cotofenesti.jpg


This helmet is even in this awesome movie of the 60s =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LXyfnGb8_I&NR


Thanks for your time.

That helmet is a couple hundred years too old for this mod's time-frame.

[paullus]

its not that old, but it is almost certainly ceremonial.

[Eduorius]

Well I just think that the Dacian General must have a cooler helmet than the one used by the new unit, but the helmet of the new unit is tough to beat. :yes:

[Dooz]

Wow, that's a stunning piece of work. But the face is really bothering me. TA, I understand it's just one face every once in a while, but that's exactly what makes it even more out of place. I think it would benefit the unit greatly to just stick with the method spirit_of_rob mentioned you've been using so far and just altering a vanilla face. For a mod all about immersion, this really breaks it for me (not with regards to the whole mod obviously, just as far as this unit goes).

I really do hope I'm not coming off as a jerk or unappreciative at all, because that's as far from the truth as you can get. This is truly one of the most incredible units I've ever seen, ever, anywhere. That shield is blowing my mind. The helm, the sword, the scale, it's absolutely incredible. It's just that I can see how infinitely better it would be if the face was in accordance with all the others in the mod so far, and it's upsetting that it's not.

xprime, kudos for an excellent piece of work.

[Watchman]

As helmets go, that tricked-out Chalkidian one (with them horns and crest and all that) from Bryastovets ought to be hard to beat in terms of sheer visual impact. 'Course, it's Thracian and from 4th century, but... :sweatdrop:

[Tuuvi]

I don't see what the problem is with the face, since that model is for a family member it will only appear on the general's face, not the whole unit.

[fallen851]

Nice skin. Will it be in 0.81?

[Xprime]

Wow, that's a stunning piece of work. But the face is really bothering me. TA, I understand it's just one face every once in a while, but that's exactly what makes it even more out of place. I think it would benefit the unit greatly to just stick with the method spirit_of_rob mentioned you've been using so far and just altering a vanilla face. For a mod all about immersion, this really breaks it for me (not with regards to the whole mod obviously, just as far as this unit goes).

I really do hope I'm not coming off as a jerk or unappreciative at all, because that's as far from the truth as you can get. This is truly one of the most incredible units I've ever seen, ever, anywhere. That shield is blowing my mind. The helm, the sword, the scale, it's absolutely incredible. It's just that I can see how infinitely better it would be if the face was in accordance with all the others in the mod so far, and it's upsetting that it's not.

xprime, kudos for an excellent piece of work.

Thx for opinions
Model is completely different than vanilla one.There is nothing from vanilla models. This is not reskin or any update of old mesh - this is completely new mesh with individually mapped texture - even hands are better than in M2...I tested this model with different animations (to minimalize texture distortions when model is moving or fighting),so can be used as infantryman or horseman. Number of visible flaws is minimal but mechanics of game is to simple for real human model. Method of texture's placing does not offer too many possibilities. In case of mechanics (animation) only one ( literally 1) weight that can used for skin modifier. Only one bone can influence one vertex...And of course many of animations in game are bugged -unnatural moves not possible to perform by a real human - this is reality of game, reality of flaws...Model is basically better than models in medieval 2 (as I know) and when(or if) this will be possible- can be exported to M2. I greet
http://www.eltommedia.pl/XPRIME_ROME/nh1.jpg
hands are little changed in new model, this is old version

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Well done xprime. It is just beautiful! Congratulations again!

[Justiciar]

The detail on those hands is shocking. Way above the norm. :dizzy2:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It goes without saying we are really looking forward to what xprime can do for us with MTW2 also. :grin:

fallen: It is right on the borderline - I don't know if the general will be in 0.81. We really are trying not to keep adding things and slowing the release.