15% Unrest in some cities?

[Pchoi]

First, I am new to the forum and want to say hello to everyone here.

Here is the question:

I noticed some of my cities have 15% unrest in the public order section. Those cities are far from the frontline, close to the capital. I am sure that there are no enemy spies in them or rebels hiding in the forest. All I have are 6 groups of Spear Militia in each of them with no General.

I am not talking about "Distant to capital" or "Religious Unrest", just plain "Unrest".

What is the cause of this 15% Unrest?

[TevashSzat]

the general governing it probably has some bade traits that decrease public order

[Pchoi]

the general governing it probably has some bade traits that decrease public order
Thanks for the quick reply.

But I have NO general in those cities, just 6 groups Spear Militia in each of them.

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Also, I have searched the forum, how come no one mentioned this mysteriously unexplained "15% Unrest"? Just curious.

[sapi]

I've noticed it around too, but have no explanation for you :(

[Pchoi]

I've noticed it around too, but have no explanation for you :(
Thanks Sapi, at least now I know I am NOT the only one on Earth who have that 15% Unrest thing.:yes:

[Foz]

Maybe it's because there's no governor there. Call it a hunch, but perhaps you suffer some default amount of unrest simply because there is no governor installed to help control the people.

[sapi]

@foz - i'm pretty sure there's a 'no governance' public order loss which accounts for that.

I may be confusing no governor with no garrison for that though.

It's an idea.

[Darkarbiter]

Probably spies.

[Pchoi]

Maybe it's because there's no governor there. Call it a hunch, but perhaps you suffer some default amount of unrest simply because there is no governor installed to help control the people.
Thanks you both Foz and Sapi.

Even if I put in a clean governor with no bad trait in those cities, or increase the garrison to 20 groups of Spear Militia, the 15% Unrest remains.

So, from what I observed, with or without General(Governor) does not make a difference. Neither does the amount of garrison affect that 15% of Unrest.

I had also thought of it as the default unrest value imposed by the game maker, but then why only some have the 15% Unrest, and some don't?

[Pchoi]

Probably spies.
Impossible.

1. Those cities are far from the front line.

2. Some are not even coastal cities.

Just to make sure, I tried to put 3 top spies(a total of 30 "eyes") of mine in one of the cities for 5 turns, even Jame Bond 007 would be executed.

Furthermore, if an enemy spy can get pass that kind of defense, the unrest value will not be 15%, it will be more like 40 to 50%.

[Foz]

Found it. Someone tackled it on some thread here that I never saw apparently. What it boils down to is that the 15% unrest is sort of a base amount for that given province in a lot of cases (it could be from 3 points worth of spies too, though - they cause 5% per point of spy skill). The file involved is descr_rebel_factions.txt, which lays out what rebels different regions can have (actually it sets up the units involved in each rebel event, and doesn't explicitly name the regions it applies to). Apparently all regions that can spawn rebels do so at 3% chance, and each percentage point corresponds to 5% permanent unrest in that region, making the 15% we so often see. Cities that can have 0% unrest therefore cannot spawn rebels at all.

The original post that details the find is here (including the text of the rebel file):

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1342140&postcount=19

[Pchoi]

Found it. Someone tackled it on some thread here that I never saw apparently. What it boils down to is that the 15% unrest is sort of a base amount for that given province in a lot of cases (it could be from 3 points worth of spies too, though - they cause 5% per point of spy skill). The file involved is descr_rebel_factions.txt, which lays out what rebels different regions can have (actually it sets up the units involved in each rebel event, and doesn't explicitly name the regions it applies to). Apparently all regions that can spawn rebels do so at 3% chance, and each percentage point corresponds to 5% permanent unrest in that region, making the 15% we so often see. Cities that can have 0% unrest therefore cannot spawn rebels at all.

The original post that details the find is here (including the text of the rebel file):

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1342140&postcount=19
Thanks Foz! Your answer really helps. Now I know how that 15% Unrest come from. It is also related to the probability that rebels might spawn. :yes:

I also want to thank everyone whom has helped in this thread. ~:cheers:

[kublikhan3]

Thanx for identifying this! I had entire legions of counter spies trying to flush out this invisible spy.

[Tran]

I also found an interesting unrest-based campaign map which shows provinces with no, little, and average unrest

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1311000&postcount=7

[FactionHeir]

Tran: that map is only for RTW, its not true for M2TW.

I noticed that sometimes the base unrest only kicks in if you have ever changed your capital.
I.e. I left my capital as London as the English and had no base unrest but later on, as I expanded, i moved it to venice but a few turns later I had base unrest in London.

[Tran]

Tran: that map is only for RTW, its not true for M2TW.

Yeah I just noticed that, it would be nice though if someone made similiar map for M2TW.


I noticed that sometimes the base unrest only kicks in if you have ever changed your capital.
I.e. I left my capital as London as the English and had no base unrest but later on, as I expanded, i moved it to venice but a few turns later I had base unrest in London.

That's interesting found, I do sometimes see city with 20% unrest which I'm sure there's no spy around (I garrisoned elite spy and it's far enough from border), in former/conquered enemy capital city, if I remembered correctly

[Drunkin General]

I'm fairly certain that the 15% unrest you are seeing is tied to descr_start.
In decr_strat theres an entry for each town that states the towns creator. Most towns are tied to factions ie zaragoza is a rebel town but spain is its creator. So if any faction other than spain takes it, they get a permanent 15% unrest penalty. Kinda like a core provinces thing

[Foz]

I'm fairly certain that the 15% unrest you are seeing is tied to descr_start.
In decr_strat theres an entry for each town that states the towns creator. Most towns are tied to factions ie zaragoza is a rebel town but spain is its creator. So if any faction other than spain takes it, they get a permanent 15% unrest penalty. Kinda like a core provinces thing
I doubt it. Several of the places I have it in my English campaign are natural expansion points for England, and I can't imagine they'd be tied to another faction. I don't have the file ATM to check though. Also this 15% due to rebel spawn chances would be a mechanic carried directly over from RTW, so I'm inclined to say it's that until proven otherwise.

[Pchoi]

As we concluded this 15% Unrest is tied to the 3% probability of rebel spawning; but today I observed something different, and would like to share with everyone who is reading this thread.

Playing as England, at turn 45, still with London as the capital. Nottingham has a Public order of 140%, no "Distant to Capital", no "Infamous 15% Unrest", no "Religious unrest", it only has some "squalor", but a rebel army still pops out. (The city has 4 groups of Spear Militia garrisonned in it, nothing else)

So I suspect, besides the obvious 15% Unrest, there is still other factor(s) causing rebels to spawn.

[Tran]

As we concluded this 15% Unrest is tied to the 3% probability of rebel spawning; but today I observed something different, and would like to share with everyone who is reading this thread.

Playing as England, at turn 45, still with London as the capital. Nottingham has a Public order of 140%, no "Distant to Capital", no "Infamous 15% Unrest", no "Religious unrest", it only has some "squalor", but a rebel army still pops out. (The city has 4 groups of Spear Militia garrisonned in it, nothing else)

So I suspect, besides the obvious 15% Unrest, there is still other factor(s) causing rebels to spawn.

Maybe it has something to do with your King's authority? What's your King's authority level? Or maybe popularity? Does he has some kind of trait that reduces popularity?

[Pchoi]

Maybe it has something to do with your King's authority? What's your King's authority level? Or maybe popularity? Does he has some kind of trait that reduces popularity?
Rufus was the King. I believe he had 6 to 8 Gloves(Authority) and a few Skulls(Dread) at that time.

However, I did turn Nottingham into city at turn 30th or so.

I am more inclined to think that the game designer imposed some hidden values of probability for rebels to spawn though. But I have no proof for it.

Anyway, I am NOT complaining that rebels spawn, they are good targets for young assasins and new generals anyway. :yes:

I brought up the Nottingham cases only in case that some readers may be interested to know about.:book:

[Camp Freddie]

Wow, delurking after all this time...

In RTW, the "rebel chance" factor did NOT affect rebel spawn chances. It only affected the base 15 or 30% unrest for non-'owner' countries. The army lists from the file were used, but the spawn chance was elsewhere.

In RTW-BI, the devs added the rebel and pirate spawn values, in one of the campaign directory files (IIRC). You could increase that value to decrease the rebel spawning chance.
I had a quick look for that value in MTW but I couldn't find it (or remember exactly where it used to be in RTW-BI).

Anyway, I just wanted to de-lurk to prevent people repeating the goose chase that we tried in RTW! TEsting didn't reveal anything to affect rebel spawn chances (garrisons, forts, watchtowers, distance to capital, governors, etc.)

And while I'm delurked, thanks for the work on the shield bug testing and fixing Foz. There's no way in hell that I was going to manually edit that bad-boy EDU file!

Hey, because I'm feeling extra co-operative today, here's the way to alter rebels in RTW-BI:

"The easy way to lower the amount of rebels spawning is to open up descr_strat and find this line:
brigand_spawn_value 20
pirate_spawn_value 28
Raise the number to lower the amount of rebels, it's a denominator."

[Foz]

And while I'm delurked, thanks for the work on the shield bug testing and fixing Foz. There's no way in hell that I was going to manually edit that bad-boy EDU file!

Hey, because I'm feeling extra co-operative today, here's the way to alter rebels in RTW-BI:

"The easy way to lower the amount of rebels spawning is to open up descr_strat and find this line:
brigand_spawn_value 20
pirate_spawn_value 28
Raise the number to lower the amount of rebels, it's a denominator."
Heh... no problem, Freddie. I wasn't going to edit it manually myself, either, thus the file patcher, which undoubtedly took me less time to write than a manual edit of the file would have (not to mention being more useful even to me). I think I got 5 whole units manually edited before I said "screw this..."

Thanks for the info on the rebel spawning. I think it's in the same place in M2TW. Knowing that nothing else probably affects it means I won't be tempted to go test-crazy on it, too :smile:

[Pchoi]

Thank you, everyone.~:lightbulb: