Query - Do you recruit the True Cross ? [Archive]

a_ver_est

01-30-2007, 15:41

Do you recruit the True Cross ? I have saw it available as a crusade mercenary unit and I have recruited it. But is it a usefully unit ?

It give some moral bonus to your army but it cannot attack. So I don't know if an extra combat unit will be better or not than the True Cross.

What's your opinion ?

Anyway it give a realist look to my holy lands realm. :knight:

zstajerski

01-30-2007, 17:01

The great croos as well as the (I forgot how it is called, when you play with Venice you can recruit them) ...., have pruven worthless for me
:(

Rather go with an extra unit that can fight and does not to have to carry around a crosss :smash:

joe4iz

01-30-2007, 17:24

The battlewagons (whether city standard or True Cross) raise the moral of the units around it. I always garrison one with cities who have militia or other low grade moral units.

When a city gets sieged, I place it close to where the fighting is going to be. In a couple of battles, it turned the tide.

One tactic that works well is to push the battlewagon into a breach, this breaks all the formations that come thru that breach(even after the members who man the wagon are killed.).

They are exceptionally good at breaking cavalry charges.

In my second campaign, I kept Jerusalem from the Mongols for 3 sieges with the help of a True Cross battlewagon. My faction member was killed during the first seige, and there was no way to reenforce the garrison ( I was playing as the HRE and did not have any of the other provinces around it.)

Cecil XIX

01-30-2007, 17:26

What I remember is how much it slowed me down. I couldn't get to Antioch in time (to be fair, that wasn't the Cross's fault), and when I suddenly had to pay for a full stack the Cross made it take that much longer to move my army someplace useful.

Cost me a lot of money, that Cross.

diotavelli

01-30-2007, 18:07

I always take battlewagon standards when available. It's true that they slow down armies in the field but most of mine have artillery so they're none too quick anyway.

In battles they can also prove useful. Don't forget that it's possible to drop the standard (as you would a ram or siege tower), which frees up the small but powerful unit of elite troops who form the escort; at this stage, they can attack. The standard is not easy to destroy, so it can be left unguarded temporarily.

I've not tried it in sieges but think the combination of a standard in the breach and the elite troops as a tide-turning reserve force would probably be highly effective.

Marquis of Roland

01-30-2007, 18:18

I recruit them as much as I can, I don't care if they're slow they just look too cool not to recruit :2thumbsup:

LordKhaine

01-30-2007, 18:22

The Italian standards are also cheap to maintain, so they can justify themselves easily in the long run. Handy in bridge battles, sieges and other games with lots of concentrated fighting. The morale bonus really can decide a battle. That being said if I have the cash to afford a full stack... I'll do that. I don't think the standard can match an extra unit of heavy infantry/cavalry.

I always grab the True Cross when I can... simply because it's a crusade! It needs the true cross!

gingergenius

01-30-2007, 18:32

can you get more than one??

I'm doing a 2 by 2 collection of mercenary units in forts around my capital (London) so that I can take them to the New World. Yet I have just 1 true cross. Also, where do Religious Fanatics pop up?

Carl

01-30-2007, 18:34

Also, where do Religious Fanatics pop up?

Try in france, I find loads their during Crusades.

joe4iz

01-30-2007, 19:56

Anywhere on the Italian Penisula . You have to be on Crusade to get one.

gardibolt

01-30-2007, 22:15

Every army should have one. And if I recollect my class on the Crusades correctly, every army pretty much did.:beam:

The Spartan (Returns)

01-30-2007, 23:28

actually it isnt a True cross just a Great golden cross.

TevashSzat

01-31-2007, 00:41

On crusades, the true cross just costs too much of a movement penalty so i never recuits it. True, it can help turn the tide of a close battle, but your cruade army will most likely have no trouble while on the crusade and once the crusade is over, you will have at least one general neary with lots of chivalry to help with morale

Nebuchadnezzar

01-31-2007, 04:40

They are more worthwhile than they look even though they have a movement penalty.

Aside from the morale bonus they are actually manned by uber infantry which can dis-engage the equipment and fight in battle. They are extremely tough and because they almost never rout they fight to the very last man. Quite useful at times especially during crusades when your army is made up mostly of useless fanatics or other cheap infantry.

Snoil The Mighty

01-31-2007, 08:04

I recruit them as much as I can, I don't care if they're slow they just look too cool not to recruit :2thumbsup:

Sometimes the reason really is that simple

:2thumbsup:

sapi

01-31-2007, 09:44

They are also the only unit in my experience that can survive a mongol charge without breaking.

I buy them just for that eventuality :laugh4:

Carl

01-31-2007, 12:10

They are extremely tough and because they almost never rout they fight to the very last man.

Of course they do, they fight to the last man every time, it's one of their abilities in fact, it just isn't listed, but in reality it's impossibile for them to rout becuase of the Stat_Mental line.

(i.e. they ARE Mental:laugh4:).

Same with Carrico Standerds.

sapi

01-31-2007, 12:15

A army made up of them would be useful for 'last stand' situations then :P

FactionHeir

01-31-2007, 12:31

The great cross crew isn't actually strong at all. Got wiped off the map by some feudal knights even in melee.

The only time I use it is to defend or attack castles. Why? Because the cross cannot be burned according to the script files. Perfect to move it up to the walls so you can run up a ladder/siege tower while it blocks most missile fire from reaching the crew. The small crew can then distract archers on walls while you move the rest of your army forward.
In defense, its good for raising morale of no-general armies.

Carl

01-31-2007, 12:36

The great cross crew isn't actually strong at all. Got wiped off the map by some feudal knights even in melee.

Shield Bug again...

They're basically a half strength unit of Papal Guard. A full unit of fixed Papal Guard can send any Cav unit in the game running for it's mummy, (or it's embalmers in the case of Egypt:laugh4:).

ASPER THE GREAT

01-31-2007, 12:51

Going "Crusading" need "True Cross" it is a must have in the holy land :yes: . The moral boost is great and yes I bring it right up behind my ram or ladders/seige tower for the radiant effect of the "Holy Spirit" :beam: . It is all about the FEAR FACTOR :whip: :whip: :whip: .

Memnoch

02-01-2007, 09:37

So does the True Cross still work when your crusade is over? I took a True Cross on my crusade to Jerusalem and since then it's just been sitting there. Does it still work?

sapi

02-01-2007, 10:07

I believe so.

Mailman653

02-01-2007, 13:51

Yeah it still works after the crusade is over.

LordKhaine

02-01-2007, 15:12

I kept my great cross safe in my little empire in the hold lands, in case I ever again needed such a powerful symbol of christian faith in the field!

(C'mon.. if you play as a catholic faction you at least have to act like a catholic faction :dizzy2: )

Vanya

02-01-2007, 18:56

GAH!

Vanya wonders if anybody has tried a True Cross rush in MP yet...?

GAH!

TevashSzat

02-02-2007, 03:09

Snoil The Mighty

02-02-2007, 08:08

Doubtful a true cross rush would work since there is simply not enough units allowing them to get surrounded easily. You will need to drop the standards for the extra mobility which will basically destroy their advantage which was good morale

Not sure on this, perhaps the extra morale boost for nearby units goes away (which I would expect since they left the Standard behind), but I have never had them do anything other than fight to last. Just a few minutes ago had em save my bacon when my Venice early half stack got waylaid by multiple ERE armies. 3 of them, around half a stack each. Fought to the last man they did. I lost the battle, but their tenacity made it a worse-than-Pyrrhic-Victory as the ERE lost 3 family members and an enormous number of troops in the fight. And it was those dudes who bought me the extra time to make it that costly for the ERE. Not naysaying but I don't think they lose any of their own morale, at least not that I have seen as they have done this for me quite often. I've never seen em run.

They may not be clever, but they are insanely persistent! :beam:

Carl

02-02-2007, 12:23

I've never seen em run.

Like I said, they CAN'T run away, their traits prevent their Morale from ever being anything except Eager.

However, recruiting more than 1 makes them cost more, they have a base MP price of 750 Florins and every unit after the first costs 180 Florins more than the previous one. So the second costs 930, the third costs 1110, the fourth 1290 e.t.c.

So you can't really do a rush with them, plus a unit of Papal Guard wil outfight them and it's 1120 florins cheaper for 4 units of Papal Guard. On the flip side, when comined with Papal Guard and Religious Fanatics and used as the generals unit you'd have a seriouslly difficult to shift army thats fairlly good vs. cav and S&S units, (allthough missile units will be an absolute terror and you won'tbe able to include many Missile/Cav units of your own due to the number of Fanatics requiredm, they're quite poor individually).

Shahed

04-18-2007, 03:48

What is the exact stat boost to your own army's morale ? and in what range of the cross is the morale boost applied ?

I've got one of these but it slows the whole army on the strat and on the battle map. I'd like to know exactly what impact it has. Right now I've just got it for flavor.

pike master

04-18-2007, 04:31

they are a spearhead unit just like forlorn hope.

drop the wagon and send them in with the rest of your assaulting troops behind them and they will do some serious damage compared to regular spearmen. units like that get owned when they are overwhelmed by numbers. as long as someone holds their back they are pretty mean.:smash:

nikolai1962

04-18-2007, 06:56

i always get one if i can. don't really care if they do anything or not i just get them for coolness reasons.

Bartix

04-18-2007, 08:20

can you get more than one??

Oh yes! I took 2 on 1 crusade. It would be better silly if they are called "True", but they are "Great", so OK. Lost many guys in auto resolve battle, and was left with 1 when crusade done.

GAH!

Vanya wonders if anybody has tried a True Cross rush in MP yet...?

GAH!
close...
There is thread:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=80245

:balloon2:

edyzmedieval

04-18-2007, 09:18

Those Caroccio standards are just for eye candy to me. I rarely use them... But they're awesome. :beam:

RickooClan

04-18-2007, 14:12

I like to recruit the true cross and bring it back to the capital after crusade as a monument or the like! :laugh4:

Vladimir

04-18-2007, 14:34

I really need to try a combined a True Cross unit and a high dread general. Could be a good combo.

Bob the Insane

04-18-2007, 14:45

Always, it is too cool...

As stated above I like to push it into combat too as the guys protecting it are pretty hard...

Didz

04-18-2007, 15:30

I used the city standard units when I played Venice.

I may be wrong, but I assumed that having placed the wagon in a strategic location so that it boosted the morale of the troops around it, i was then free to detach the elite infantry unit that pushed it there and use them as a normal unit. So, in that respect I got the best of both worlds.

Does anyone know if the wagon still works when its not being pushed, it certainly seemed to have the same effect?

detroitmechworks

04-18-2007, 15:35

I played venice for my unlock, and it seemed to improve morale when the unit was unattached.

However, That no longer applied when the thing got destroyed. (Dang that thing's fragile. however, it also seems to act like an artillery blocker once it's destroyed. I've seem more ballista bolts and catapult rocks stop dead on it...)

FactionHeir

04-18-2007, 15:36

Didz

04-18-2007, 16:22

I parked mine in main street from the gate to the city centre and posted my Italian Militia spearmen in front of it. Nobody gave an inch and the French got massacred.

nikolai1962

04-19-2007, 02:34

I like to recruit the true cross and bring it back to the capital after crusade as a monument or the like!

yeah, i do that too :)

sapi

04-19-2007, 09:21

FH, the beauty of the True Cross/standard unit is that they will never rout and thus are excellent for trapping cavalry at a location such as a bridge or a town.

Shahed

04-19-2007, 09:46

The morale boost is quite substantial in that units around it are very tough to rout. I'm not sure if the effect only applies when they are actively carrying the wagon though or just by the unit itself being nearby.

As for the unit itself, its quite weak actually and a unit of knights or heavy infantry easily kills them. In my own SP modifications, I gave them 2 hp and that made them a lot more effective (they slow your army down already so they should be worth at least something)

Excellent thanks, I'm going to do that too.

I used it in a siege, this time I pushed it in front of the gate... LOL... and used the infantry to fight once the enemy was weakened. I'm gonna mod them a bit too. Though they are very tough as is, against light infantry.

Carl

04-20-2007, 13:30

You have to have them manning the engine to get the boost AFAIK. The boost is +5 morale and effect in radius of 50. thats a total diamiter of 100. Peasent archers have a rane of 120.

Morale varies between 3 and 11 for units.