what the hardest faction to be in EB

[king hannibal]

although it fun winning all the time I need a challage or as much as the AI allows :wall:

so I was wondering as the only faction I've been is carthage because of the cool early skins (not to say the rest arn't as good) but they are how I Iamgine them to be

so what the hardest faction?

thanks

[Orb]

Hayasdan is pretty difficult to start with, but I think they get easier later on (horse archer, cataphract and Galatian merc armies made it easier, still not neccessarily a pushover) (I last played them for 0.74 and alledgedly in 0.8 Seleukeia is much more aggressive).

Also, the Gauls similarly have difficult starts, and probably a weaker unit roster (although the Gaesatae are just...)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Pontos is not easy. They have to recruit a lot of mercs and you have to be paying attention to diplomacy more than usual.

[Moros]

I found my hayadsan campaign easier than my gaul campaigns. Bloody triarii, with hayasdan you conter heavy phalanxes with missiles. The gauls have it harder in that aspect I think. And if you have a long campaign, sometimes Karthadashtim comes conquering from out spain with verry elite full stacks. (my advice if you can get them off spain, do it.

[Elminster12]

I can second Pontos. Of course, some of it has to do with the recruitment, but even so, you don't really have all that much room to expand, and the Seleukids are ALOT friskier on 0.8...and then there're the Ptolies and the Maks as possible problems. And the Hayasdan with their incredibly irritating HAs...and the Sauromate across the Pontos Euxinus...

[Karo]

Play as Hayasdan you wan a real challenge
But I have another question where can you train cataphract in 0.8?
Can somebody help me

[Fondor_Yards]

Saka is pretty hard. Super poor cities, only unit worth their price have a high price *nolbes are very nice but costly, cataphracts cost about the same but have half the men*, and the Blue Monster of Baktria to the south, the parthians with their better cavalry to the south, and the equally shitty/strong *heh depending on your view* Sarmations to the west.

[Boyar Son]

No one think Rome is hard? because it's supposed to, the entire Roman world had to face difficult wars, setbacks, and costly (but deserved) glory.

Rome starts as a small nation, surrounded by enemies, can it get any harder?

[Geoffrey S]

Rome starts with a number of defendable provinces and a very robust economy, making them relatively easy.

[skuzzy]

Pontos is damn hard from the start and even in prolonged play doesn't get all that much easier for a good while. It's hard sitting next to an already established empire that turns on you quicker than a superstar ninja.

[Zim]

Well, I haven't played every faction, but I have managed to lose both a Casse and a KH game, so i'd say them. :sweatdrop:

My Averni game, on the other hand, was tough at first and easier once I got rid of the Aedui. My Roma game seems fairly easy right now, but I'm mostly playing it to have my revenge on Macedonia for kicking my butt when I played the Greeks. :skull:

[soibean]

Casse is only hard for so long as it takes you to wipe out that initial Rebel marauding army, then you just take over a few small garrison cities and slowly build up your economy. Not a campaign for the impatient.

Hayasdan was very hard as the Seleukids continually spawned random armies from the fog of war every other turn.

Id like to think that the Iberian and Arabian factions are hard but I am waiting to .9 to try them

[fatsweets]

Surprised Pahlav hasn't been mentioned as a hard faction to play. I've tried them 3 times and gave up every time because of nonstop harassment by baktria, seleukia and the rebels to the north, not to mention very poor cities. The only time I made any constant progress was by cheating but I still gave up because I don't like to cheat.

[Barnabas]

Pontos is the hardest I've played. Things are very difficult for them due to having to choose sides between the Ptolemies and the Seleucids very early, and with a frisky Makedon, you'll be sweating for a couple decades at least. The middle game is fairly easy as Pontos, though still challenging. The late game is very hard, because the unit roster is lacking in high end units at the present time. In short, as others have said, your armies will be full of mercenaries or conscripts from type IV MICs.

[Zim]

Casse is only hard for so long as it takes you to wipe out that initial Rebel marauding army, then you just take over a few small garrison cities and slowly build up your economy. Not a campaign for the impatient.

Hayasdan was very hard as the Seleukids continually spawned random armies from the fog of war every other turn.

Id like to think that the Iberian and Arabian factions are hard but I am waiting to .9 to try them

Really? In my Casse campaign there were multiple marauding rebel armies. *shudder*

[Kull]

Surprised Pahlav hasn't been mentioned as a hard faction to play. I've tried them 3 times and gave up every time because of nonstop harassment by baktria, seleukia and the rebels to the north, not to mention very poor cities. The only time I made any constant progress was by cheating but I still gave up because I don't like to cheat.

Here's the trick - Blitz the Seleukids immediately and don't let up until you have taken from them a ring of cities that will form the core of your new kingdom. Make peace with Saka and then assemble all the units you can muster on the border and then take Antiochiea Margiane. Exterminate the population (you can't afford to leave big garrisons behind) and then do the same thing to Asaak. Immediately go south and take Hekatompylos, Apameia, and finally Zadrakata. This is your core. And the key is that you can defend it with the only army you can afford - about half a stack - so long as you keep it positioned roughly between Hekatompylos and Apameia. It is brutally tough, but this move will stun the Seleukids and they won't be able to throw really big stacks at you for 10 or so years. That should be enough time to build up the economy and prepare for the next campaign...but you can figure that one out.

The military component of this strategy is to build up about a half stack of archers with a few family member generals. You should not have a SINGLE spearman in your whole army. Now normally in any battle against infantry and cavalry, an archer army is dead meat. But here the trick is to use your general unit cav to annihilate the enemy cav who won't be able to resist attacking your "defenseless" archers, and then to split up the enemy infantry and wipe them out one by one. Also, you want them to attack YOU as much as possible, preferably when you have the high ground. The key to success is the Parthian General Cataphracts. They are tanks. You will laugh at archers and all enemy cavalry (except other Cats).

Now it should be noted that this strategy is not truly historical. The Parthians *should* use less powerful Cats and a lot of horse archers. And they probably will in the next big release (not the patch, tho), as we are reworking a lot of the numbers. That said, the key fact is that arrows will beat spears if you play correctly, and that WAS true for the Parthians versus the Greeks.

[fatsweets]

Thanks Kull for the strategy, I'll try the next time I play Pahlav. The price for a decent army with Pahlav is so much that it's a real downer when Seleucia and Baktria are sending large armies at you almost every turn with good quality troops and cavalry when the only armies Pahlav can afford are archers, it seems you have to cheat with the add_money command to have any sort of chance with Pahlav because with the poor cities their is no time to build at all when you are fighting 2 large nations. Sorry for the run on sentence, I just wish the 2 cities you start with were not so poor.

[Kull]

Thanks Kull for the strategy, I'll try the next time I play Pahlav. The price for a decent army with Pahlav is so much that it's a real downer when Seleucia and Baktria are sending large armies at you almost every turn with good quality troops and cavalry when the only armies Pahlav can afford are archers, it seems you have to cheat with the add_money command to have any sort of chance with Pahlav because with the poor cities their is no time to build at all when you are fighting 2 large nations. Sorry for the run on sentence, I just wish the 2 cities you start with were not so poor.

The other critical element is you must maintain your alliance with Baktria at all costs. They should remain allied even after you sneak attack the Selukids...in fact all your starting allies should ditch the Seleukids and remain loyal to you. And do not hem the Baktrians in by taking the Seleukid city just south of their capital. The alliance won't long survive if you and Saka are their only neighbors. And be prepared to go into debt for a loooong time. Line up some archer units in the build queues at the start, because those will be the only units you get for a very long time.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I must say Casse. I played them for forty turns before I could take over another powerful rebel province. Even worse, after that, huge stack of marauding rebels came charging from the north covered in their blue paint wanting revenge. The evil creatures stormed my capital and my other city and it was all over very, very quickly. Terrifyingly hard campaign, it was fun while it lasted though.

[Kralizec]

Casse is slow to start off, but afterwards it gets easier. I should know, I played them zealously for a long while.

For your units:
You have plenty of units at your disposal that, when encouraged by champions (calawre and midlanders at first) or your chariot general, are true workehorses. Units like Clyddabre (or Kludobro, wich what they were called in 0.74), Lugoae I use zealously. I also include 2-4 Belgae Batacorii each battle, wich are amazingly solid for their price. Of course, once you're up against the Romani Triarii you'll need better, like those Golberi Curoas (Gallic mercs) or Gaestatae :2thumbsup:
Those celtic slingers don't look impressive (they have no AP), but they're dirt cheap and you'll encounter plenty of unarmoured enemies.
I had trouble with chariots at first, but after that I never had trouble with their unit roster.
(there are also useful units to recruit in Caledonia and Hibernia)

As for the campaign map, type 2 and 3 governments all confer a 10% public order bonus. Because of that I imagine that the Casse have an easier time controlling their territories then some other factions.

...

I didn't find the Pahlava starting position to be easy, but that may just be because I'm not used to using horse archers anymore :shrug:

[Boyar Son]

How 'bout the Greeks? they seem pretty hard.

And while your at it try and have a secound Megas Alexandros conquest, this time you conquer macedon.

Or another Trojan war wouldnt hurt ( exept maybe your hero's):2thumbsup:

[Mamba]

From what I played, the Sauromatae are extremely hard.

Their only choice for expansion pits them against horse archers, which aren't that easy to deal with using other missile units.

[Elminster12]

From what I played, the Sauromatae are extremely hard.

Their only choice for expansion pits them against horse archers, which aren't that easy to deal with using other missile units.
Four things...
1)Numbers. Bring every unit you have together.
2)Avoid depressions at all costs. Height relative your enemy is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. I learned that the hard way~:(
3)Spread your army out into at least three, evenly-powered wings, and try to form a sort of horseshoe around the enemy, so you can fire upon his sides and rear at all times and he cannot do the same to you.
4)Concentrate your fire on a single unit at a time. Archers and HAs get priority.

[Zalmoxis]

Any faction that starts off with a negative projected income from turn 1 is going to be a hard faction to play.

[Fondor_Yards]

Any faction that starts off with a negative projected income from turn 1 is going to be a hard faction to play.

lol that's every fction except for Carthage, Ptolemaics, and a few others.

[DeathEmperor]

I heard Casse was hard from my good friend Eduorius, but once I applied my usual "blitz the nearby ai" tactic I realized that they weren't much harder than the other factions as long as you strike early (which I tend to do :laugh4: ).

I imagine the Saka must be hard since they start next to two factions that have habit of conquering the East.

[Randarkmaan]

The Pahlav can have a tough start as they are pretty poor, but once you take your first city from the Seleukids then you can recruit more troops, in truth you don't need that many as horse-archers, archers and cataphracts make mincemeat of everything the Seleukids throw at you. After I had taken most of Eastern Iran I suddenly started making lots of money and I set for myself the goal to rebuild the old Persian Empire and start using real big armies, but then the game started constantly CTDing on the AI turn... so I can't continue it :embarassed:

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The Pahlav can have a tough start as they are pretty poor, but once you take your first city from the Seleukids then you can recruit more troops, in truth you don't need that many as horse-archers, archers and cataphracts make mincemeat of everything the Seleukids throw at you. After I had taken most of Eastern Iran I suddenly started making lots of money and I set for myself the goal to rebuild the old Persian Empire and start using real big armies, but then the game started constantly CTDing on the AI turn... so I can't continue it :embarassed:
If it's the rebelling city bug: EDB v.802 (CTD Fix) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=78531)

[Mamba]

Four things...
1)Numbers. Bring every unit you have together.
2)Avoid depressions at all costs. Height relative your enemy is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. I learned that the hard way~:(
3)Spread your army out into at least three, evenly-powered wings, and try to form a sort of horseshoe around the enemy, so you can fire upon his sides and rear at all times and he cannot do the same to you.
4)Concentrate your fire on a single unit at a time. Archers and HAs get priority.

The main issues aren't really the battles, although they're part of it. There are just so many rebels, and you're so spread out, that it's really really hard to keep expanding AND maintain any sort of empire thanks to constant rebel attacks.

[Kull]

The main issues aren't really the battles, although they're part of it. There are just so many rebels, and you're so spread out, that it's really really hard to keep expanding AND maintain any sort of empire thanks to constant rebel attacks.

Well here's the solution. Rebel stacks inside Faction borders rarely go on the offensive. For the most part they will sit passively, and in the massive provinces owned by the Sauromatae, they usally aren't in the way of anything important. Which means you can ignore them, until such time as you've got a spare army that can go out and hunt them all down.

[king hannibal]

I surprised no ones said tharce/daicans I look at there units and they seem the poorest alround although you havn't got much to worry about at the beginning it looks like it'll get harder later on

has anyone been them and dose it get harder later on?

[Sdragon]

I've played as the Dacians and they have been very easy. Since the mines give so much cash and they have so many around I'm swimming in money. I haven't even taken Greece yet.

[Eratosthenes]

Although this is little ahistorical but challenging, I once started a ptolemy campaign, but instead of fighting endless battles with the seleucid empire, I abandoned all my cities and put all my unit stacks including the generals on my available ships and set sail for the distant british isles. At the columns of hercules I got into a thunderstorm and lost half of my fleet and some generals, but I sailed on, always hunted by some seleucid ships, which followed me all the way to ireland.
Once I arrived there, I took my remaining army and conquered first ireland, then
marched on to caledonia and eventually faced the casse, who at this time had already taken control of all southern british provinces.
Playing on VH/VH settings this can get a very tough campaign because you cannot reinforce your troops with strong units until you take over the casse capital and your income is so low all the time, that your budget is in the red for a long time.

[Aristophanes]

The saka are the hardest hands down. Their cities are disparate, poor and small, they don't start out with large armies, and you have to take about 6-7 cities before you're out of the red. It's just painful to have to 'play'...( more like 'work'). As well, you HAVE to fight every battle, or you'll never get anywhere.

The hay are challenging for quite a while as you fight battle after battle against the seleukids, but it gets easier once you've taken seleukeia, susa, arbella etc...

The lusotanni are a piece of cake to play: they have great units, it's easy to expand [kicking carthage out is easy], and they have decent income.

Aedui are annoying because the romans completely outclass you in units, ditto arverni. You pretty much have to mass gaesatae and cavalry.

The casse are tedious for same reasons as saka, but they have a way better starting position and their end units rock!

KH is not too tough as long as you can with the first crucial battles against Macedon at corinth and demetrias.[in the first couple of turns]

With Pontus, I took sinope, trapezous, and nikaia as quickly as possible and then crossed into crimea and took those cities. It's really not that challenging, but the lack of good cavalry is sorta annoying.

Epirus, Macedon, Ptolies, Carthage, Baktria and Seleukeia are easiest in terms of money, units available, etc...

Romans suffer for not having a very large area where they can recruit good troops early on...later not so much.

[Dumbass]

Sauromatae are easy! Horse archers own and the rebel stacks don't attack you unless you go near them.

[Gazius]

Although this is little ahistorical but challenging, I once started a ptolemy campaign....

Nothing remotely historical about it, but that's part of what makes it interesting. I myself, in my makedonian campaign, am considering having a major 'coup' of sorts, where I take my two family members who have control of Syracruse and Lilibeo, and giving mainland greece to.... somebody. Or just letting it rebel. I REALLY wish there were re-appearing factions, giving it to the kionon would make a lot of sense. Has anyone researched into forcing the game to make factions re-appear? What's marked as change once a faction dies? Does the game CTD when you try to give a city to a dead faction?

As far as hardest faction, I'd say it depends on your play. If you play slow and defensive, I think a Pontic campaign would be the hardest, contending with those around you in antolia first, so that the Ptolemiac, or Seleukid empire is one huge challenge. You'll have to either chase seleukid to India or ptolemy into the heart of egypt to rout them out. Before that though, maybe the treacherous Hayasdan have yet to turn on you, or else are a stepping stone to your path of power. Going east, you'll either have to face blue death, or Pahlava, or, and it may take a little tweaking to get them to expand, the saka. In the west, you've got the greek states to contend with, and if you've let them sit and played slowly, they're not going to be happy about your invasion. To the north of them, if they bother, the Getai will also stand in your way. As you continue further west, you'll meet a gaulic, roman, or german empire. Or maybe even Carthage has gobled up Iberia and moved on up the Italian peninsula for a slice. No matter where you go, if you play slowly and let the empires develop, your always going to find a hard battle on your hands. If you blitzkrieg, well, hell, the enemy simply isn't there to resist you. Of course your going to win. To counter this, I think EB should move to a map befitting 4 turns a year. Or else somebody should make a mod for it. Sailable rivers would be farking awesome. If it it nerfs trade a little, well, too bad, counterbalance it with appropriate bonuses elsewhere. Played along side the BI exe, it may well turn out to be one of the funnest RTS games ever played, every time. *Goes off to read on how to make a map*

[stupac]

I don't know, I had a ton of trouble playing the Sauromatae. I finally gave up. I've only had an easy time playing Romani and KH, but I'm lost on how to win with Sauromatae, and its not that I can't win battles, I can't figure out how to manage finances. I didn't think it sounded plausible to try to build up my economy in such poor starting settlements, so I combined my starting forces leaving a unit guarding each settlement, and built a few extras with my initial cash since I was going to be in the negative within 2 turns anyways. Then I went campaigning, I captured 6 provinces before I ran out of steam, losing only 0-40 troops per battle and none of my family members. I even picked up some greek settlement on the coast of the pontos euxine. Now its 267BC, I'm at negative 33,000 mnai and climbing out at a rate of 500 mnai per turn with pahlava advancing on my borders with what's left of my army garrisoning settlements spiraling towards rebellion. I don't get it, did I conquer the wrong provinces? Should I have disbanded my starting armies and tried to build up my economy?

Seems to me the Sauromatae are tedious and unforgiving, but I guess such is life in the steppes.

[Rilder]

Playing on VH/VH settings this can get a very tough campaign because you cannot reinforce your troops with strong units until you take over the casse capital and your income is so low all the time, that your budget is in the red for a long time.

Playing VH battle dificulty I'm surprised you got anywere considering VH/m is recomended. :p.

Epeiros is pretty hard, split empire for the most part, two fronts and crappy economy.

[Elminster12]

Try Pontos NOW. You're lucky to take Trapezous, Nikaia, and Sinope and get out of debt before the Seleukids decide to attack you....better off forgoing Nikaia for Mazaka now, IMO...

Sauromatae....you can't keep your army. Not all of it. I disbanded plenty after taking Gelonus and Gava-Thissakata, and I was out of debt pretty fast because I conquered them pretty fast. Things would've gone a lot smoother had not a 760-man rebel stack appeared a turn's march outside of Uspe:furious3:
Just use the foot archers as garrisons when possible. Their upkeep is a little cheaper, they're more numerous, and just overall better on defense in a city...

[JeffBag]

Epeiros is pretty hard, split empire for the most part, two fronts and crappy economy.

Epeiros is easy; Rome takes forever to attack you, and Makedonia is so weak at this point you basically roll right down the Western coast of the Aigion, and then you can spank the Koinon Hellenon as well.

Pontus and Hayasdan are rather hard because its only a small matter of time before massive Seleukid full stacks start flowing through your borders, and your only choice is to win Heroic Victories every single turn.

The steppe horse archer factions are hard too simply because your income is utterly pathetic. The upkeep of the units are rather huge considering that they were nomads. Maybe there should be a script to give money for those steppe armies.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Elminister, those sig banners are just for members. Look in the Unit Development Art thread that is stickied to find the ones for public use.