starting as serbia

[nachoviper]

So far, out of all factions in the xl mod, i have found the Serbs to be the hardest. I cant even figure out how to start since you start out surrounded by factions who can easily out-produce you military-wise. Has anybody won the game as Serbia? And if so, how would you suggest starting out?

[Vladimir]

No. The thought scares me so. Armenia is fun but never with Serbia.

[naut]

I'll have to try it.

[DukeofSerbia]

I won and finished. But I remoded XL 2.1 Early and High period. Map is inaccurate. If somebody need patch ~1mb I will send.

[nachoviper]

And what changes to the map does this patch include?

[Don Esteban]

And what changes to the map does this patch include?


Perhaps they start controlling "Greater Serbia" including most of the balkans :laugh4:

[Vladimir]

Perhaps they start controlling "Greater Serbia" including most of the balkans :laugh4:

And have a full stack of elite troops with a 9 star faction leader sieging Constantinople.

[Martok]

C'mon guys. We're already going a little off the rails here. :focus:

DukeofSerbia, I'd be interested in your patch myself. To second nachoviper's question: What changes does it make?

[Odin]

If I recall serbia in the XL mod is fairly rich with gold and silver. Yes its a hard minor to play with all the Byz sitting right there but the Hungarians dont have a strong army to start (lots of horse archers) and the hungarian generals are nothing to write home about either.

If you play aggressive early enough you should be able to cripple the hungarians with an invasion into Hungary, the Cumans will mostly like attack as well and if your real lucky the Poles will go at the Cumans leaving Moldavia (and those precious avar nobles) open.

I didnt complete my game when I tried them, but I took out the hungarians first (it was early/hard) and was able to make a profitable little balkan state.

[DukeofSerbia]

Tomorrow full report, and I will contact VikingHorde to include it. I rebalanced whole map, not just Serbia. In 1087 Croatia was rebel province, not the part of Hungary, so... :book:

[r johnson]

Tomorrow full report, and I will contact VikingHorde to include it. I rebalanced whole map, not just Serbia. In 1087 Croatia was rebel province, not the part of Hungary, so... :book:

Sweet you got the link?

[Martok]

If I recall serbia in the XL mod is fairly rich with gold and silver. Yes its a hard minor to play with all the Byz sitting right there but the Hungarians dont have a strong army to start (lots of horse archers) and the hungarian generals are nothing to write home about either.
In addition to their starting province, they have a pretty good unit roster as well. I love their (Vuk? Vok?) Swordsmen, as they're very solid & reliable infantry. The Carska Garda(sp?) make for some pretty decent heavy cav as well - it really helps that they're a 40-man unit instead of the usual 20 for royal bodyguards. :yes:

I've only played the Serbs a few times, but I agree that rushing the Hungarians generally seems to be the best option. Otherwise you're all too likely to get hemmed in between them, the Byzantines, and often times the Cumans. You can *try* rushing the Byz, but my personal experience recommends against doing so. :blush: ~:rolleyes:


Tomorrow full report, and I will contact VikingHorde to include it. I rebalanced whole map, not just Serbia. In 1087 Croatia was rebel province, not the part of Hungary, so... :book:
Looking forward to it. :2thumbsup:

[Innocentius]

The Carska Garda is a 20 man unit, Vlastela Heavy Cavalry is the knight-like ones I recall.

Anyway, in High, Serbia suddenly turns into a minor or at least potential superpower. The Voynuk Bladesmen combined with arbalesters, VHC and some Serbian Cavalry...That's one of the best unit roster in the game IMO, second only to the English roster of High and Late. And if you start in high, both Greece and Constantinople is yours for the taking, and Bulgaria's roster isn't nearly as good as the Serbian one (at least untill they can get Bulgarian Amroured Pikemen, but the AI never reaches for them sadly).

[nachoviper]

Has anyone tried building a ship to take venice? I think that might be a pretty good idea.

[therussian91]

Yeah, the Serbs have some very good troops. VERY good. You just need to find the money to make them.

[Martok]

@Innocentius: Are you sure about the Carska Garda? It's been a while since I played the Serbs, but I still could've sworn that the royal bodyguards for *all* the Orthodox factions were unique in that they had 40 men instead of the usual 20 (including the Serbs). :book:


Has anyone tried building a ship to take venice? I think that might be a pretty good idea.
Regardless of which faction you're playing as, taking Venice is always a tempting prospect, and one that can pay big dividends. However, it's generally best to wait to invade until the Venetians have their armies engaged elsewhere. Otherwise they'll have the resources to launch constant counterattacks to retake their capital, and it can get rather exhausting after a while. :sweatdrop:

[DukeofSerbia]

I am very sorry, I was whole day in college in another town, so I couldn't write you report. I came home three hours ago. Tomorrow 100%.

Btw, Carska Garda (Imperial Guard) is wrong name and such unit never existed (only in short historical period when Serbia was Empire) :book:. I renamed it to Kraljevska Garda (Royal Guard). And Serbs have 20 men in general unit (I think) because until mid of XIII century Serbia had rare cavalry (only the richest nobles fought mounted), so, that is realistic. :book:

Venice can be easily conquered. Because in EarlyXL (my change) Croatia is rebel province, after I took Croatia, I waited that HRE weaken Venice :beam: and invaded it. They wanted peace and I accepted. Later I waited that Cumans weaken Hungary, and helped Cumans (my allies). We smashed Hungary, but Byzantium attacked Cumans, and I choose Cumans as allies. In 20 years bloody war I successfully conquered Constantinople in three bloody battles with super-jedi Byzantine generals. :furious3: Only who can really weaken them are Slav Javelinmen.

And I will post bunch of screenshots (and starting map). :2thumbsup:



Anyway, in High, Serbia suddenly turns into a minor or at least potential superpower. The Voynuk Bladesmen combined with arbalesters, VHC and some Serbian Cavalry...That's one of the best unit roster in the game IMO, second only to the English roster of High and Late. And if you start in high, both Greece and Constantinople is yours for the taking, and Bulgaria's roster isn't nearly as good as the Serbian one (at least untill they can get Bulgarian Amroured Pikemen, but the AI never reaches for them sadly).

For high period is true. Voynuk Bladesmen are ahistorical. Serbian soldiers didn't use that kind of polearm ;).

Vlastela Heavy Cavalry are the same as Chivalric Knights from the West.

P.S.
Thanks r johnson (I forgot that I have uploaded screenshots):

EarlyXL
https://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8742/earlyxl7oj.jpg

HighXL
https://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4120/highxl7ya.jpg

[Martok]

Thanks for the screenshots, DukeofSerbia! Out of curiosity, how do the Selkjuks and Fatamids play, now that you've switched around which faction owns the Holy Lands? I'm curious as to whether the Eggies can still compete all right, and whether or not the Seljuks overpowered. What's your experience been in regards to those two factions?


Btw, Carska Garda (Imperial Guard) is wrong name and such unit never existed (only in short historical period when Serbia was Empire) :book:. I renamed it to Kraljevska Garda (Royal Guard). And Serbs have 20 men in general unit (I think) because until mid of XIII century Serbia had rare cavalry (only the richest nobles fought mounted), so, that is realistic. :book:
I stand corrected! Thanks for the clarification, Duke, and my apologies to Innocentius for doubting. :bow:

[Kavhan Isbul]

The Serbs are hard in medMod, in XL they are a moderate challenge at best. The only thing one needs to do is build an inn and wait for the Hungarians to get in a war with the Cumans and possibly also the HRE. In the meantime, one barque is necessary to protect the coastline from the Sicilians and the Venetians.

[Mooks]

Do some raiding.

Raid into hungary, theyre military flees really easily so just destroy all the buildings and build up Serbia. I dont reccomend occupying hungary because they are sourrounded by hostile nations all around. Raid, build serbia, and wait for the byzatines to attack. If they dont...wait for them to get tangled with the turks then invade, bulgaria,greece,and constaninople are the best provinces to have in the entire game.

[Odin]

I dont reccomend occupying hungary because they are sourrounded by hostile nations all around. Raid, build serbia, and wait for the byzatines to attack. If they dont...wait for them to get tangled with the turks then invade, bulgaria,greece,and constaninople are the best provinces to have in the entire game.

I disagree with this strategy mainly because the Hungarian lands have mines and steel. Yes there are larger catholic nations to your north but taking croatia, Hungary, and carpathia you get 3 provinces with mines, and 2 with steel.

Additionally you get a shot at moldovia and those avar nobles who are fine unit. Sure if you can take Constantinple go for it, but thats a lot more difficult (in my opinion) then rolling up the hungarians and developing those provinences.

[macsen rufus]

After seeing this thread, I decided to have a try :beam: (Early/expert)

Difficult starting position, and not enough money!

Tried to ally with Hungarians, but no luck. Byz accepted the bait and even let me have my princess back virga intacta :laugh4: Concentrated on mines and farms first, trained a couple of HA and a Voynuk sword unit, then a barque. Finding a decent governor for Serbia was impossible, my best starting unit was a 3-acumen spear unit. Next few units were even more dimwitted!

Turtled for a while, ready for Hungarians to have a go at me, but in the end the Cumans attacked them. After a couple of battles they went into civil war and Hungary turned rebel, with the King and one Prince stuck in Croatia with some HA and Slav warriors. I guessed EVERYONE in the region would go for HUngary so instead took everything I had in Serbia apart from my King and invaded Croatia. Hungarian king decided he couldn't win, and the province was mine. His other Prince in Carpathia decided not to cough up, so no ransom money :thumbsdown: but I did get the province intact! Hungary WAS invaded by the Poles, Byzantines and Cumans, eventually going to the Poles. They have a big stack there still, but gave me one of their princesses, so I can live with that for now :2thumbsup: I took out the Hungarian navy with my barque then lost it in a storm... can't really afford another yet, so here's hoping the Ventians behave.

Carried on building mines and farms, and eventually raised a couple of 4-acumen units, so stripped the old governors and reassigned titles. Shortly thereafter the Germans went into civil war and Austria was rebel held - but not for long :beam: 970 of my men lead by a loyal prince removed the 1370 rebels without too many losses. It's now 1114AD, I have three provinces and a positive cash flow. Not a lot, maybe 500 profit per year, so I can build up some forces at last. I really want to take Hungary if possible, but the Polish garrison is up to 2000 men now.

More later

[Martok]

Excellent, macsen rufus! Sounds worthy of putting up a post in the Pics & History thread. :2thumbsup:

[macsen rufus]

Another evening's play has got me to 1141 AD.

I noticed the HRE were a bit worn out, with only Tyrolia and Milan. Tyrolia had a mostly UM garrison, so I lobbed in a prince, a couple of HAs and some infantry and wiped them out -- all but three men! Drat - withdraw and reinvade with just my prince. Couple of years of rebellions, easily sorted whilst the watch towers were built, and loyalty secured. All the while watching my back for the Poles.

Next couple of decades spent cycling troops through to Serbia to get armour added, and watching for higher acumen candidates to reassign titles to. Bavaria went rebel, so I launched an attack, and the French joined in - luckily my allies, and my force was the larger one. Nice bit of cash from the rebel lands. I don't like to extend my borders so much, but the Poles were still playing nicely so far. All building in this period was economic - mines and farms.

Next opportunity came with Venice, as the Venetian king and his sons were sitting there with not a huge army. I launched a massive attack from Croatia, Tyrolia and Austria. They abandonned the province, my cashflow doubled! Next year the Venetians counter attacked with 6x RKs plus assorted infantry in support and I whupped their sorry behinds, taking out all the royals in the process - end of faction. Those Voynuk swordsmen do some serious damage to royal knights if you catch them in the woods :2thumbsup: , and slav javs and mounted X-bows do the rest.

Now I have much better cashflow, and have finally started the castle in Serbia (actually think I finished it before I fell asleep over my keyboard :clown: ) Attacking the Venetians cost me a few allies, namely the Bohemians and Poles amongst close neighbours, and a few further afield that I'm not so worried about. But once the faction was eliminated, those alliances were reforged. The Poles and Byzantines are the only neighbours now who pose any credible threat, so I try to keep in with them! Every time the Byz go to war with an ally of mine, it's the Byz alliance I keep. The Poles have a couple of not-so-loyal princes who give me hopes for a civil war :beam:

Current priorities are to get trade from Venice flowing, and tech up militarily in Serbia -- now I have a castle, the next level of buildings are available at last. My governor for Austria has developed into a 9-acumen builder/steward, so I may switch him to Venice (Austria is making about 800 florins/yr now, not bad for a "poor" province :2thumbsup: ) In the longer term I want to get my hands on Bohemia and Hungary, and probably Switzerland in time to get Swiss halb flowing around 1205!

Currently my aim for a field army is 1 or 2 Caska Garda, 2-3 HA/mounted Xbows, 3-4 spears (preferably armoured spearmen), 2-3 archers, 2-3 slav javs and a couple of voynuk swords, with slav warriors and UM to fill any gaps in the line.

It's not the easiest start, but there are harder factions.