What's your favorite M2TW faction?

[econ21]

I don't recall us having had a poll on this. Please give reasons.

[SnowlyWhite]

byzantium; vardariotai and more vardariotai

[JCoyote]

Portugal... good balance of unit types, great gunpowder once there, great ships, Conquistadores in the new world... and a good starting position. First Iberia, then the world!

[Doug-Thompson]

:egypt:

You start with Mameluk Archers, can declare Jihad on the first turn and never run out of money. You also get the first crack at the Mongols and the Timurids. The only real complaint is that they're too easy.

[Carl]

You Forgot the Papal States, (along with Aztecs, Mongals and Tirmiurds), so went for scotland as they are another fav, Denmarks also good too BTW, (I love infantry as you can tell and loathe cav).

[llewellyn]

pourtugal. kill spain then consolidate, kick moors out of iberia consolidate, cross gibraltar kill moors and once angain consolidate

[Incongruous]

For the Empire!
It has to be those Juggernaught like units they get. I love seeing my Two handers and Forlorn hope scare the crud, then tear the crud out of mine enemies!:beam:

[Bijo]

Ze Holy Roman Empire :laugh4:

The colors, black yellow, look really nice; they got nice units; good generals speeches; good announcement texts during battle; good text audio on the campaign map; a location to expand into every direction overland (though it means you're surrounded by many factions); etc.

With HRE's campaign I've had the most fun.

[PseRamesses]

Turks: Awsome location. Superb economy. Easily defendable. Just love the units. My siphais are untouchable. Later foot units are highly versatile.
Runner up: Byzantine (sadly portraited in M2) and HRE.

[caius britannicus]

Portugal... good balance of unit types, great gunpowder once there, great ships, Conquistadores in the new world... and a good starting position. First Iberia, then the world!


QFT!

Their javelin infantry and cavalry is so effective is almost unfair. Then throw in the arquebusiers and Avertous and you got yourself the best INFANTRY based faction in the game

[FactionHeir]

I'm torn between Moors and England.
English have great Longbows and that's all really and Moors got cheap and effective early units that are still great in the late game.

So I am going to abstain from the poll as I cannot decide.

[ezekiel6]

Scotland every time. Patriotism I suppose is the reason. They don't have the best selection of units, including no xbow units or gunpowder infantry, but they do have Galloglaich rebels to hire which are my favourite unit. Seen as they start from such a small position I like marching them out and proving their force. :D

[IrishArmenian]

Russia, but Sicily comes in second.

[TevashSzat]

Sicily, awesome muslim archers and one of the best factions to blitz with. Take northern italy, and the byzantine empire at the same time

[Armenia_Byzantium]

All the way Byzantium!

[PaulTa]

Russia- Russia seems to be designed for those of us that like to turtle and take the campaign slowly. You get a nice position in the corner of the map, and can generally avoid contact with just about everyone if you don't go too much further than Kiev (don't take it either). The only ones who start wars are the Poles, but peace treaties with the Poles are always economically benificial.

Once you hit your late game units, you become really powerful.

[IrishArmenian]

Russia- Russia seems to be designed for those of us that like to turtle and take the campaign slowly. You get a nice position in the corner of the map, and can generally avoid contact with just about everyone if you don't go too much further than Kiev (don't take it either). The only ones who start wars are the Poles, but peace treaties with the Poles are always economically benificial.

Once you hit your late game units, you become really powerful.
I am an avid Russia player, but I play the opposite with Russia. My western Border stays at roughly Vilnius and Kiev while I consolidate power in Eastern Russia (Volga+Sarkel) and then I head down through Georgia, into Armenia and then take Mosul. At this time the Poles attack, and I really just have to swamp them down with large amounts of Kazaks, seeing as their units are superior to mine in the early stage.
The Middle East has very rich cities, ripe for the sacking!

[zstajerski]

Russia
Dvor cavalry and dimounted dvors :smash:

Not to mention the tzars guard :smash:

And with gunpowder: the best hand gunpowder unit in the game Cosak Musketeers!!!

[Darkarbiter]

HRE for having more then 5 provinces..... OH SNAP.

[grinningman]

I like the Moors as they generally have weaker units than the Christian equivalents, so tactics tend to be more important. I also like the Christianity vs Islam conflict on Iberia. And I like camels ~:).

I had great fun exploring North Africa and finding a way through the desert the first time I played M2TW.

[Empirate]

Gotta be merry olde Englande! I just love Longbows, and DEKs rock. Besides, it's nice to have to crush the frogs in each and every game!

[Maurus]

The Byzantine empire, awesome position once you consolidate, and the most cool looking units in the game :yes: , finally, it's a real challenge after the 1250's withouth gunpowder

[dacdac]

Spain all the way. Besides for having a good starting position for both beating Muslims and getting to the New World, their gunpowder, ships, infantry, Pavise crossbowmen, calvary, skirmishers. They have a much better professional army than Portugal and France is easy to conquer after it gets involved with the HRE, Milan, and England.:2thumbsup:

[Marquis of Roland]

Turks. Good starting position, good infantry and cavalry (JHI beats zweihanders 1 on 1) and you get to fight all of the Mongols and Timurids before anyone else ruins your fun :2thumbsup:

AND you don't have to listen to a psycho with a pointy hat in Rome :laugh4:

Oh and decent melee infantry that can also shoot long range missiles.

[Northnovas]

Can't vote but my two cents would be boring England. An island that gives a good start defensively supported by a strong fleet.:2thumbsup:

[Indy]

I'd have to say Turks. JHI in towns are brilliant if kept on the offensive.

The many forms of (any environment) horse archers. Wonderful for slimming the enemy before he reaches our house.

[yezhanquan85]

Playing as the commanding general of the "psycho with the pointy hat". Your own generals can freely have 0 piety and you command those burners to get rid of almost anyone anywhere in the world. Who needs assassins when you have these guys?

[sapi]

HRE - more colour scheme and starting position than units imo.

byzantines are a close second.

[Specky the Mad]

with out a doubt HRE for their power to steam roll in every direction and leave no prisoners

[The Foolish Horseman]

Scotland, because of the sense of patriotism ( as said by ezikiel) and the mixture of great infantry ( far better than there rating suggests) and there awesome cavalry. Plus they have an okay startegic position as they can take one of the biggest armies in the game literally from the off

[Zasz1234]

hafta say Hungary. They have nice starting spot for having interesting enemies. Catholics, Orthodox, and muslim all at the same. plus awesome cavalry.

[ASPER THE GREAT]

England Crusading, Long Bows, it's a merry old island :2thumbsup: !!!! Spain was cool too :smash: :smash: the Moors take Africa & work your way into Europe:beam: . I have not tried Russia sounds good next round :yes:.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I like Spain. Great starting position, with Muslim Moors and a weak Portugal to beat up on. Excellent Naval units with the best position to invade the New World. Not to mention my favorite calvary unit that are useful early and late in the campaign, Jinettes. "The lances in Spain fall not too gently upon the plain." Team them up with an all cav army including Knights of Santiago and Crossbow cav, they can take on just about any army.

[zstajerski]

But still a hint for all who hanent tried it yet:
play Russia on VH/VH, or maybe it was coinsident that at both times i played Russia I got the whole first imapact of both invasions Mongols and Timurids, so that made for a heck of a problem :)

But also their units beat ass, although there is no infatry unit (without upgrades) which has defence over 16 :(
They still kicked all asses that came across in the game, when used with a little tactic abillity :smash:

[HoreTore]

Actually, reading this thread has changed my mind....I just started a moorish campaign, but I'll scrap that and have another go at Ze Germans!

Didn't like it the last time I played it tho, as I was finished by turn 50...Won't play it offensively this time tho...

[Darkarbiter]

sticky anyone?

[AliAS]

HRE - because i played with them first and it is "old-school" medieval catholic faction.

moors - Because it is great opposite of HRE . And i love camel gunners :yes:
And i want try wti Turkey (i player with them in EUII )

[455trt43trg]

England.

[Gen_Lee]

Portugal only.
Luckly with a mod done by Portuguese that corrects a lot of historical inconsistencies of vanilla map.
Portvcale v1.1b

[danfda]

Russia. I love camping and letting the rest of the world develop, and Russia is great for that. They get absolutely terrific units (cossack musketeers are panzers in sheep's clothing) and have a wide array of foes to face. Mongols, Timurids, Catholics, Orthodox...Games as Russia are never boring. Plus, it's just fun to conquer rediculously huge, empty provinces. :laugh4:

[Tristrem]

so far my favorite faction has to the mongols. I downloaded a mod that lets me play as them, I forgot the name, and they are my latest campaign. I rp'ed the starting force as one of the small nomadic tribes of the stepp. When the real horde arrives, I will unite my tribe with theirs, and create a glorious empire that reaches to the new world. Plus the mongols fulfill my need for large horse archer armies. Happy hunting!! :smash: :skull: :charge: :gah:

[Frankmuddy]

Russia- Russia seems to be designed for those of us that like to turtle and take the campaign slowly. You get a nice position in the corner of the map, and can generally avoid contact with just about everyone if you don't go too much further than Kiev (don't take it either). The only ones who start wars are the Poles, but peace treaties with the Poles are always economically benificial.

Once you hit your late game units, you become really powerful.

My campaign went just the opposite of that. Within ten turns I found myself swamped with agressive polish armies and spent the next two hundred years fighting continual wars with the Poles, then the Danes, and then the Hungarians, one after the other with only brief pauses. Still, it is a lot of fun, and I think the Russians excellent balance of infantry and cavalry archers is about the only thing that's allowed me to fight back effectively. It's also a lot of fun to use woodcutters to ambush knights and enemy generals.

[Lorenzo_H]

Spain all the way! :2thumbsup: I love them because by the late Medieval Age - Rennaisance they were the Worlds superpower at the time and I really am enjoying playing as them as well as reading their history:book:. Habsburg Spain, the Reconquista, the Conquistadores (Cortes - what a legend) I love everything about the Spanish.

[FrauGloer]

Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation - that's the HRE if you haven't guessed it yet.

The name, the color scheme, the great unit roster, the challenge, it all fits. :yes: Plus, I'm German, so I guess a bit of patriotism flows in as well... :germany: :2thumbsup:
England and Scotland tie for second place and third is Denmark.

With a bit of modding to make DIKs (oops... read every letter individually please :laugh4: :laugh4: ) on par with Dismounted Feudal Knights - which they should be anyways - and modding DGKs into the campaign, the HRE has an amazing unit lineup, lacking only decent archers.

Very solid Infantry: DIKs, DGKs, Zweihander, Armoured Sergeants
Amazing Heavy Cav: GKs, IKs, Teutonic Knights
Perfect Artillery: Serpentines, Basilisks, Cannons
Useful Missile Troops: Pavise Crossbows, Mounted Crossbowmen, Arquebuisers
plus the later availability of Landsknechts and Swiss Pikemen

Once you have secured your starting territory, the sky's the limit. West, East, South, or North, you can go anywhere. :2thumbsup:

[Kraggenmor]

Spain for me too.

A starting position with plenty of non-Catholic territories to cut your teeth on.
Easy access to ocean and sea.
And - IMO - the best voice work in the game. All the Spanish voices are perfectly done. Listening to the same speeches done in the different voices just doesn't sound as good. ;)

I also lived there for a few years while in service so, I feel a bit of attachment that way too. I need to get back there....

[Lorenzo_H]

Spain for me too.

A starting position with plenty of non-Catholic territories to cut your teeth on.
Easy access to ocean and sea.
And - IMO - the best voice work in the game. All the Spanish voices are perfectly done. Listening to the same speeches done in the different voices just doesn't sound as good. ;)

I also lived there for a few years while in service so, I feel a bit of attachment that way too. I need to get back there....
Hey nice one I used to live in good old Espana as well!

[alex9337]

Too difficult to answer, from my point of view.

I have played as Scotland, England, France, Spain, Denmark, Russia, Turks & Egypt so far and have thoroughly enjoyed them all.

Each had their own "good points".

France I found challenging because everyone attacked me.

England was great because I love longbowmen and the Sherwood Archers.

Scotland was a blast taking a small nation without gunpowder units and conquering everything.

Denmark was great because I focused on cities and wealth because I could build Norse Cleric cavalry in cities.

Spain because of their excellent units and different starting location.

Egypt because they can roll over just about anyone.

Russia because of their units and starting position (can turtle if you want to)

I found the Turks to be the most challenging because I am having difficulty getting any economy going while holding off the Byzantines.

I think I'll pick Scotland, just because it was so challenging to win.

[Skott]

I chose Denmark but its really a tie between Denmark and HRE for me. I've played more Denmark campaigns so I used that as a tie breaker since we can only choose one.

[Lorenzo_H]

Scotland was a blast taking a small nation without gunpowder units and conquering everything.



Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Scotland are not completely without gunpowder - I once acquired a few cannons and a mortar as them.

[Carl]

I once acquired a few cannons and a mortar as them.


Those are seige, not units though. He was a bit unclear but he meant actual units of men with firearms like Muskteers, Hand Gunners, Camel Gunners, reitiers e.t.c.

[Sapper]

I don't recall us having had a poll on this. Please give reasons.

France - Because I have an overwhelming desire to repeatedly send my hugely expensive massed knights and nobility up against English longbows. I can do this either on horseback or dismounted trudging exhausted through the mud over the bodies of earlier attacks and all the while be historically accurate! It just doesn't get any better than this!:wall:

[Fookison]

Scotland all the way......."Where's the fight?"......Love to wipe out the English and Danes and then I head south and east.............Scottish Pikes....Deadly........:smash:

[Shahed]

Turks.

Speed, mobility, firepower, decent all cavalry armies, horse archers (!), Jannisaries, versatility in mid and late game towards balance of all cavalry and mixed armies.

Hey Timurids and Mongols should be added to the poll. IMO a reasonable candidate for a sticky too.

[-Amon-]

Turks.

Speed, mobility, firepower, decent all cavalry armies, horse archers (!), Jannisaries, versatility in mid and late game towards balance of all cavalry and mixed armies.

Hey Timurids and Mongols should be added to the poll. IMO a reasonable candidate for a sticky too.




I agree..My vote has gone to Turks....

[Artorius Maximus]

I voted Sicily because they have great melee units; Sword and Buckler Men, Norman Knights, and of course, Arquebusiers ,a gun powder unit!

I like Venice too though for their Heavy Infantry, and Spain for their Javelin Class units.

[hippo]

Hungary. Mostly because starting position and early horse archers. Later units are not so important as my early units still make the backbone.
Starting position you ask?
Well I can take venice and bologna without getting in war with HRE. With venice, bologna, zagreb and budapest I have enough money to do virtualy what ever I want.

[Whacker]

Always been partial to England. They have a great starting position with which to consolidate and then expand. Not the best units though, and you face the problem of expanding against catholic neighbors with the pope breathing down your neck.

[Lord of the Isles]

I'd like to say Scotland for patriotic reasons but while they are fun, the best factions are those with challenges (and variety too):

-- Venice and HRE for their awful starting positions
-- Russia and Turkey for intersting troop mixes and the Mongol/Timurid threats

With the winner by a short head being Turkey.

[Tora]

Is the poll malfunctioning?
A couple of posts flying the flag for Hungary yet no votes registered for them in the poll!?

[Doug-Thompson]

As of the time of this post, notice that England and Scotland — the British Isles — make up 23 percent.

Just an observation.

[Illidan87]

France defiantly. Sexy crossbowmen, Powerful Calvary, and enough infantry to fill you wildest dreams.

[Agent Smith]

I love the Russians, mostly because I'm a Ukrainian-American :beam: Needless to say Kiev becomes my capital when I take it.

That aside, I like Scotland as a close second. I love Greek Phalanx's and Scottish pike give me as close as I can get to it.

[vonsch]

Okay, I have only been playing II two weeks and have only gotten to about 40 turn in on any campaign before I switch. So far I've tinkered with English, Spanish, Portugese (several times) and now Milan.

Maybe it's growing expertise and knowledge, but Milan is really interesting from a family angle. With the core of five cities all right there in northern Italy I can actually develop positive governing traits by city-hopping. I have three pretty darned nice governors (one of which is also close to an effective 10 general depending on circumstances). It's also nicely set for crusading and early pope ring-kissing.

Also interesting to de-emphasize castles into oblivion. I use them when I capture them only long enough for any repairs they can do (my small cav and vanilla archers & crossbows still, mostly) and just long enough for the unrest to cool and some basic pop control buildings (that apply to cities too) to get built, then I convert them to cities and use the militia garrison to hold them. Milanese militia are solid. And when the crossbows can be made (and thus are free as garrison too), well, it's a no-brainer to convert. They are actually cheaper in maintenance.

The central spot means I have no secure borders, just more and less secure ones. If it weren't for the defensive power of Milan (and the ungodly money-grubbing ability!), I'd be uncomfortable with that. I like having SOME secure flank. At the moment I'm "at war" with France (port blockades, starting to beat down their navy and may go grab Marseillie to teach them a thing or two), still in a state of war with Venice after grabbing Venice (more port blockades) and the Moors decided they don't like me too (more port blockades).

For some reason they are all afraid to attack. They're probably coordinating. :help:

My cardinal is poised to become pope, but ol' Greg refuses to croak. So I sent along a little gift to Rome. Naples turned up with the plague the turn after I conquered it (and finished those Sicilian back-stabbers!) so I sent a spy to hang out in the Pope's kitchens. So far he's not terribly infectious it seems, but I still have hope (and he still has the wicked little mouse to show for it).

I find myself auto-resolving a lot though. In general, not as Milan. I played out a lot more battles in RTW, though fewer in MTW. Something about the tactical system's working isn't "fun" enough. I think I'm finding the controls a lot more squirrelly than in the earlier ones.

But despite liking Milan a lot, I also like the others. And want to try some horse archer-based cultures, and something non-Pope centric.

I do wish we had the option to start in early/middle/late like in MTW though. I tend to not play out campaigns to the bitter end, so I'll never see gunpowder at this rate, or even Mongols.

[Caelus]

I would have to go with the Turks.

Excellent horse archers, excellent foot archers and perfectly good infantry. My only real complaint is I feel cheap using them, as the computer seems almost totally unable to stop a well coordinated horse archer and lancer army.

My second would have to be the HRE.

You are in a position to expand in all directions. If you want an easy, quick and exciting game you can rapidly strike in all directions, crushing all those in your path. If you want a more challenging game you can sit tight and weather the storm of the many inevitable enemies you will have to fight.

In fact I like all the factions.

I’m a little surprised no one voted for Hungary and Poland. I more or less understand why no one voted for Hungary just because they don’t have anything that the Turks, Egyptians and Byzantines don’t have a better version of. Even so they allow you to play a catholic faction with horse archers, are on the border with Islam and orthodox Christianity and are in a generally cool geographic location (at least for me).

Poland has Polish Nobles which are in my opinion one of the best units in the game by far. Lithuanian archer can deploy stakes and woodsmen are incredibly powerful for their exceedingly low price.

It seems the eastern European factions are underestimated. Perhaps it is more game play factor that effects their popularity than effectiveness.

[Czar Alexsandr]

Russia. Has all the units I need for my tactics. Tsar's Guard is an excellent cavalry unit, Dvor's of both types are excellent hybrid units, and the Cossack Cav is a excellent medium horse archer, plus it has the fast-moving ability! Something that makes it's other role as med cavalry more rewarding.

Aside from that Russia is just awesome and gives you a very rewarding campaign complete with Mongols and Timurids! It's hard to keep the barren Steppes defended and profitable. All the more challange!

[coalition]

England. Red FTW! Archer Spam FTW! Stakes FTW!

[Digital]

Please help me. I just got the game yesterday, the Gold edition. When I click single player and grand campaign. Only 5 factions symbols appear - England, France, Holy Roman Empire, Spain and Venice. How did you all manage to play as the other factions? I am only allowed to choose among these five.:help:

[_Tristan_]

A simple search on the forums should have gotten you the answer but I'll tell you nonetheless :

1 - Completing a campaign with any faction should unlock the others.

2 - If you can't be bothered, you can mod your descr_strat file and move the factions you wish to make playable from the unplayable to the playable section (cut and paste)

[Digital]

Thanks. I think I'll start with the English grand campaign first before moving on to the others.:beam:

[Prussian to the Iron]

Venizia!

Cool mix of eastern and western styles, nice starting position, untouchable island base south of greece.

they are almost too easy; the HRE just cant take em out before they get too strong.

[Michael333]

I don't know why, but I can't vote... :furious3:
But my favorite faction is Scotland!!!! Highlanders forever!!!!!! :2thumbsup: :scotland:

[Prussian to the Iron]

perhaps you voted at one point in the past and didn't know?


no wait....its because you are still a junior member. post a little and thatll go away.

[Michael333]

perhaps you voted at one point in the past and didn't know?


no wait....its because you are still a junior member. post a little and thatll go away.

Thanks for the information :book:

[Thermal]

I don't know why, but I can't vote... :furious3:
But my favorite faction is Scotland!!!! Highlanders forever!!!!!! :2thumbsup: :scotland:

My favourite is scotland too, I like small factions to start with and just generally like there unique unit roster. :balloon2:

[Tabuu]

However, Mercury, if you have a small faction, there's a good chance the neighboring faction will declare war on you, if you're relations are adequate.

[Tabuu]

P.S. Holy Roman Empire forever! :D

[Tabuu]

wait thats UNLESS you're relations are adequate. Sorry.

[bretwalda]

Can't vote, either. I love playing Hungary.

One: because I am Hungarian (Magyar) so love building a Hungarian Empire, Two: because I love horse archers, my favourite tactics is HA hit n run. My favourite battle goes like this: I lure all the archers away, then sweep them with cavalry from that on just surround the enemy and rain them with arrow until one or two starts to run, then charge...

[Prussian to the Iron]

nice necro

[A Nerd]

I think certain necros can be overlooked if it stimulates conversation. The citadel has little conversation anyway. No biggie.

[Beggarman]

I have trouble deciding on one faction. But since i had to choose, I took the Turks. Excellent cavalry, if not as good as some factions, atleast comparable. Excellent infantry, and a very strong late game. I loves'em. Also, once you get your Siphahi and Ottoman infantry upgrades to heavy mail, they look AMAZING.

But i also love the Gold and Yellow of the HRE.

[Myth]

England and HRE.

[Nelson]

I think certain necros can be overlooked if it stimulates conversation. The citadel has little conversation anyway. No biggie.

Too right.

[Naviriel]

Byzantine empire as you have to fight everyone close to your borders from the very beggining till the end.

[where's yur troosers]

Byzantium for me. You are surrounded by enemies and are likely to fight wars on several fronts but have the units and economy to manage. Superb horse archers, good foot archers, decent infantry and cavalry. The roster is marred only by the dreadful spears and near total lack of gunpowder.

Second place goes to Scotland. You start stuck on the edge of the map, you most sensible first target is bigger and Catholic, you have no horse archers, the poorest selection of foot archers, weak heavy cavarly, and limited gunpowder units. On top of that the stand out unit (noble pikemen) is very tricky to use effectively. What's not to love.

[Vladimir]

Living dead girl!

I like Venice because it gives me everything I want; and for historical reasons.

[Thaddeus]

Hellsbells, that's a tough one. England for Longbowmen, Turks for Janissary troops, Byzantium for Varaengan Guard and if you get swordsmith guild in Constantinople you can hold off the Crusades and Jihads forever, Milan for spear militia, Venice for the same reason plus I like their colour haha, Poland for the Strecznys, Denmark for been able to take Stockholm quickly, Scotland coz I'm Scottish and for the pikes, Papal States for the Papal Guard, France and HRE I've never played a proper campaign with them after 3 years (didn't have the patience to wait for Scots Guard until now...just about to start a game with France, don't like the Mongols, but want to give the Timerids a proper go.

If I have to pick I suppose it's England. rampaging through the world with my trusty Longbowmen is a blast and they are the only Nation I have completely taken over the world with.

[Alrik]

Hmm... I like a challenge, so I thought Denmark was pretty fun seeing as they start small and helpless and I really like the idea of warlike clerics and best of all the Obudshär! Heheh, who doesn't like to have a "host of bad omens" on your side? Doesn't hurt that they really are bad news for anyone opposing them. I'm not sure I'm all that keen on the whole, no castles though as they are of no use to the danes, the best rangeweappons they can get are mercenaries and with all cities and a deacent hand with money they can afford them.

Milano was fairly fun because they are so overpowered, they are danes on steroids, anything the danes have the milanese have ten times better, it's sick really.

Oh, right, my vote goes to the Russians. Weak ass crap to begin with, they can't make money even if people throw them at them, but given time they can both bark and bite. (Seriously I think the cities made TWICE as much florins when I held them with Milano, not different cities, but the very same ones, the Russians are useless with money and that shortage makes things a tad harder.)
Yeah and they are their own masters, no pope, and no cheat jihads. Which means you can't jihad your way to awesomeness geting both gold and chevrons every 10 or so turns and since no one is Ortodox, you can't just conqure, but have to convert the populace as well. I don't understand the people who go "Oh I need non christians to attack, buhuu..." When you're catholic you have the world as your oyster, everything is catholic so you just have to take it, no need to waste time converting, just take and be done. (Which obviously make things a lot easier for catholics.) Once you're the sole catholic left (yeah take Rome) then the Pope will be your bitch any day of the week.

[elbasto]

The turks have the best rooster from a cost-benefit point of view definitely and on top of that you can survive with cities alone, building Jannisary heavy infantry and siphais horse archers. Later on, you can add jannisary musketmen.

All of those are very flexible attributes:
- The Sipais have a decent ranged and close quarter attack.
- Jannisary Heavy Infantry has good melee attack, decent defense and a weapon that has bonus fighting armor and cavalry.

And to train any of this troops, you only need a city with 12,000 pop.

Finally the Jannisary musketmen have very decent melee attack. You could make an army of this units alone, place them in tight formation and witness all your enemies rout before reaching your positions while you murder family members from a distance.


The Spanish are also great, with their musket men, basilisks, tercio pikemen and Gendarmes, you can have only cities and once you secure the Iberian Peninsula, keeping the French out is relatively easy (even more so if you take Tolouse and Bordeaux). This wold apply for the Portuguese as well if they didn't need a castle to train the Aventureros.

Finally the French have great units but you need castles to train and heal them, had they have musketmen, they'd have the best rooster stat-wise.

[phonicsmonkey]

Moors! Camel gunners FTW!

[dakar97BG]

with my the mod Bulgaria total war its the Bulgarians of course Im a Bulgarian they have really long ranged archers and have the max of 31 missile attack and in real we really had pretty good archers,weabout the mod its The Germans(Holy Roman Empire)and France really cool shooters and heavy infantry+Gothic Knights,Really cool,fast,tough and strong Knights man

[dakar97BG]

The Bulgarian Empire

[gollum]

Welcome to the org dakar, enjoy your stay.

Can you give a link to your mod?

[SaneCube]

Spain and the Moors (mostly Spain)
I don't know why, but they're awesome

[Beggarman]

For me, my Favorite has to be the Turks. Again. Because of the flexibility of their armylist: you can field both all-cavalry and all-infantry and do VERY well. All Cavalry against the Mongols makes fighting those annoying bastiches so much easier. But you still have excellent infantry options to defend your cities and castles: I slaughtered a TWO mongol hordes at the gates of Antioch, using only Saracen and Halberd Militia, along with a high chiv family member.

For my next favorite, it's probably the wonderful Portuguese. They can Blitz the Moors out of Iberia early on, and Almghuvars are excellent troops. A line of spear militia to hold the enemy in place, then your Almies can run around the flanks and slaughter the pinned enemy by showering attack 13 javs on them. ATTACK 13 JAVS. Knights die by the dozens.

I also like the Danes, as they have a very solid and dependable infantry roster. Viking raiders are just silly good, so long as you upgrade their armor.

[gollum]

Byzantines give a good campaign game. Variety of fighting styles, variety of terrain encountered and variety of enemies.

Basically you face pretty much all army types, from typical knight heavy catholic, to eastern horse archer factions like the Turks and the Mongols, to the infantry militia heavy italian armies, to the hybrid armies of Hungary and Russia and you can field similar variety armies to beat each opponent in his own style.

[Myth]

Welcome to the org dakar, enjoy your stay.

Can you give a link to your mod?

It was featured on the main page a while back. I'm personally annoyed at Bulgarians coming to M2TW communites only to spurt out "BULGARIA YEAH!" when this game has nothing to do with our country and nobody else cares. It's very frustrating...

[gollum]

Right, thanks Myth.

The Tsardom of Bulgaria did play an important part in the middle ages, but M2TW doesn't cover all of the period and unfortunately the scale and scope of the grand campaign was such that only major major powers would be included (and some minors for marketing purposes :). Of course the Kingdoms campaigns rectify that to a certain extent, but a balkan campaign unfortunately wasn't included therein.

The Arab sieges of Constantinople and the golden age of the Tsardom of Bulgaria when the Byzantines went through a lot of hard time and grief i think deserve a TW campaign in its own right, and having a mod for that is great.

Another interesting period for a TW game at the area is that of the twillight days of Byzantium, approximately 1280-1380, with the Ottomans looming over the balkans and teh Venetians expanding their influence as the various peoples of the Balkans were independent powers that squabbled and only very occasoinally coallesced to fight the Muslim invaders but at the same time were fighting against each other to extent their influence.

[Myth]

Bulgaria has several noteworthy moments throughout it's history, from the founding at 680-681 until it's fall to the Ottoman Turks (various dates and years, depending on the sub-kingdom). I'm from Velko Tarnovo, which is the medieval capital of the country. The castle of Tsarevets is nested atop a very defensible hill and is nigh-on impossible to take by assault. (reference here (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Tsarevets-Panorama.jpg) though what you are seeing is a modern reconstruction, as the original fortress was razed to the ground by the Turks)

Now first I want to point out that anthropologically speaking the Bulgrians have little in common with the horse-riding old Bulgarian peoples who migrated over from Asia. In fact, 85% of our genome is ancient Thracian, predating that of the Russians and Poles (who also call themselves Slavs even though their genome points to them being part of the large Thracian tribe).

Under Khan Krum before being established as an Orthodox Tsardom, we reached Constantinople but could not take it due to lack of siege equipment and a Byzantine party ambushing the Khan and wounding him. The Bulgarian Horselords who were the ruling warlords at the time believed that the Khan is watched over by Tangra (their pagan deity) so if he were wounded this meant he had lost Tangra's favor and therefore was unfit to rule. This led to internal strife and the subsequent lift of the siege of Constantinople.

The second major point we have was indeed saving Byzantium's (BTW Byzantium is a made-up 17th century word. Much like Crusade. Historically this was Romelia or the Eastern Roman Empire) behind when Constantinople was besieged by the arabs. Bulgaria dispatched some 3000 ships and destroyed the Arab navy, allowing Constantinople to be supplied by sea.

Under Tsar Simeon II we had our Golden Age, but that was largely because of him studying and being brought up in Constantinople and thus being an educated man. He also lead an army towards the Capital and would have taken it, but was content to take Tessaloniki instead and be bought off by the Vasilevs.

The final noteworthy thing we did was that in 1205 Tsar Kaloyan destroyed the invading Latin and Crusader army. This was a battle of similar importance as the infamous Battle of the Ice won by Alexander Nevsky.

This time though, Tsar Kaloyan used light Cuman horse archers to constantly harass the encamped crusader armies, firing flaming arrows at their tents. The knights could not take the harassment and charged on, only to be lead into an ambush amidst the entangling terrain of a marshland (Kaloyan knew we could not beat them head on in an open field). There foot soldiers with hooked polearms and nooses on the end of sticks managed to pull the knights from their mounts and quickly coup-de-grace them whilst they recovered.

Apart from that most of the time Romelia (aka ERE) was stronger than us, but it was simply too distracted on other fronts. That did not stop them from holding us in some form of slavery for 200 years, though this might have done more good than bad for our culture and economy.

Then, when the Turks came and Bulgaria was divided into 3 sub kingdoms, we fell, our ruling and intellectual elite was massacred, our churches burned and our women raped. This continued on for 500 years, while the west had it's Renaissance and Enlightenment, we were uneducated peasants forced to toil under a failing feudal system.

So whilst we did indeed have some scattered achievements we do not hold as much importance as the sovereign kingdoms of the West nor as the invading Eastern nomads.

[Napoleon The Emperor Of Europe]

I would say France,Spain and The Holy Roman Empire

France:Excellent infantry.Powerful Cavarly

HRE:Good selection of troops,espically the gothic kinghts(HRE main's Strentgh)

Spain:GOOD
`

[gollum]

Thank you for the interesting historical account Myth.

Two points; one is that Byzantium was called by its people Romania (Litteraly country ofthe Romans) or Basileia ton Romaion (Kingdom of the Romans) as far as i've heard - at least that's how its spelled out in colloquial greek.

The other is that i thought it was the Byzantine navy that destroyed teh Arab fleet, while the Bulgarians harrassed the besieging Arabs and their camps from their rear with hit and run tatcics and night raids.

But i could be wrong :)

[Myth]

I suppose it's a matter of linguistics. I know it as Romelia which is the same thing (Land of the Romans) or the ERE. Regarding the fleet - my grandfather is a History professor and was the vice dean for the VT University for 20 or so years. I'll ask him for details this Friday, but I'm reasonably sure that's the way I've been told it happened. It was definitely a full scale assault and not hit-and-run as far as the naval battle goes.

[gollum]

Rumelia sounds probably like a leftover from the Ottoman period, because the province that encompasses central Greece today is known as "Rumeli", which was how the Ottomans called it AFAIK.

I knew that the Bulgarians played a key part in the Arab siege on land, and what i said about the hit and run tactics are for that. I did not know that they had participated in the naval war.

Regards

edit: Wikipedia says that in the first siege the Byzantines got a decisive victory at sea, and this is the one i was referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(674%E2%80%93678)

In the second siege it mentions the key Bulgarian involvement on land that sandwitched the sieging Arabs between the Bulgarians and the sallying Byzantines, wearing them down until they retreated. It says it encompassed all out attacks as well as raids the most important one being while the Arabs tried to retreat to their fleet, in which the Bulgarians scored a very high number of kills. It is mentioned that in their retreat their fleet got also destroyed, but due to a storm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(717%E2%80%93718)

[Adelaide]

I like French but Im also new! I love Scots Guard and Lancers... just got gunpowder and only built cannons so far so curious whats gonna happen next!

I think the toughest to beat in western Europe was Milan and Sicily... the pavise crossbowmen and italian spearmen were tough on my knights!!

Ps. Any suggestion about attacking the Pope? When should I do it and how? :)

[A Nerd]

I generally don't like to go to war with the pope if I can help it. You will be excommunicated which affects city loyalty. However, in my case anyway, sometimes I am excommunicated anyway if I am at war with a Catholic faction and want to quickly finish them off. In which case I hope to have enough happiness bulidings built and turn down the tax rate. When excommunicated, often in times the pope will attack you and you are then at war with him too. I take this opportunity, if convineint, to attack the pope and take his cities. The only problem is that when the pope dies or your faction leader dies, you will still remain excommed (I think). You need to have one of your own popes elected or make peace with a diplomat to be reinstated. It is a satisfying feeling to take Rome though. This is my experience, though I claim not to be a very good player! :)

[_Tristan_]

I like French but Im also new! I love Scots Guard and Lancers... just got gunpowder and only built cannons so far so curious whats gonna happen next!

I think the toughest to beat in western Europe was Milan and Sicily... the pavise crossbowmen and italian spearmen were tough on my knights!!

Ps. Any suggestion about attacking the Pope? When should I do it and how? :)

Hi Adelaide and welcome to the .Org !!

Yes, France has a good selection of units and is real fun to play with with so many knights available...

As to fighting Milan and Sicily, the best way as the French is to make good use of cavalry... Use faster Mounted sergeants to deal with Pavise Xbowmen and use knights to get rid of the spear militias.

I consider myself a good cavalry commander (capable of winning against uneven odds if I'm in command of an all cavalry force) and could give you some advice on how best to use that cavalry, send me a PM if you want some advice :wink:

As to the Pope, I would advise keeping him as ally as long as you can... One simple way is to offer to give him one or two territories (or as many as neccessary), an offer that would exceed their funds, so though the Pope will refuse your relations will get better... Repeat a few times (even in a single dilomatic session) and you should get perfect relations (and so free rein to deal with your pesky Catholic neighbours...:2thumbsup:)

[Myth]

gollum: I spoke to my grandfather. You were indeed right - we did not help by sea, we destroyed their ships with flaming arrows.

War with the italian factions: First you must know that they don't really need castles for the better part of the game (if at all). Therefore the best strategy is not to try to take key settlements (as they have none that are outstandingly important) but to slow and methodically push them back and wipe them out. Milan tends to get itself excommunicated in Vanilla because of it's overly aggressive AI. Wait for that, give the pope 5000 gold and crusade against them. The crusader mercs will eat them alive in autocalc, but will also be good in lead battles.

As far as dealing with them tactics wise, in addition to Tristan's cav start I'd say mass Dism. Feudal/Chivalric knights to hold the line against the spears and then hammer and anvil them with gendarmes/chivalric knights/whatever you have.

War with the pope is best done in one swift strike - land 4-5 stacks near Rome (Trebuchets and all) and take it in one turn. Though It'd be better if you did that in Stainless Steel as there your genearls get traits that help them fight the Papal States and other Catholics.

[Adelaide]

@Tristan
Thank you for the welcome! And thanks for the advice too. I defeated Milan very early with mostly mercenaries I think... Spearmen, Crossbowmen and Frankish Knights. Maybe I also had Armoured Sergeants and Dismounted Feudal Knights, but I can't remember. I also defeated Sicily quite early, though I didn't like their Norman Knights! :)

@Myth
Thanks for the advice, especially against the Pope! :)
I was thinking the exact same thing, almost. I am planning on having 2 full armies outside Florence, Rome and Tripoli (Those are the 3 papal cities). 1 field army (Mostly or only cavalry) and 1 siege army (mostly or only heavy infantry, Scots Guards/Avanturiers and cannons).

Right now only 4 factions remains! My year is 1320 I think and I need to prepare for the arrival of the Timurids. All of western Europe, the Middle East and North Africa has been conquered by my french armies! I just attacked Poland and took their 2 regions to the north instantly, 2 more will fall soon as my armies are marching closer and then after that they only have 3 or 4 regions left. Russia has 3-5 regions and the Turks only 1 left!

After the Turks have been crushed I will move down and prepare for the Timurids. At the same time my sweap into Poland will probably be stopped by the Pope and then I will either assassinate him, or move down and take him before I finish off Poland. Not sure yet but would be best to finish conquering Poland completely before I move against Rome!

[Bow-wow-wow]

Its so hard to choose, they are all great but I think I have to go with England. Those Billmen and Feudal knights just make it the best.

[edbenedict77]

I'm not sure if you can start playing as Portugal, but Once i win the game as my present faction HRE i intend to play as Portugal :) but my Fav is HRE, awesome generals :) beat back an attack of 5 units of norman swords of sicily with 3 units of sergant xbowmen with a 6 (total) star general :D and presently i got six, 5 star generals of 20 yrs of age. They all attained knighthood with 3 stars!!! wicked!!!

[Barra]

My favorite is Portugal, their units are awesome. I really like javelins. They kill anything. And their starting position is better than Spain. I also like eastern european factions (Poland, Hungary and Russia). Danes are also great, their cavalry is weak but great infantry. More challenge to me :p

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I see.

France already in my MTW2 campagan has become powerful.

Francce is a really good faction,The Holly Roman empire has a great range of units,Spain's my fav and Denmark and VENICE.

[Shigemasa Oyamada]

I personally like the English, Danes and Milan, but my favorite would have to be Portugal. Aventuros + Musketeers are simply amazing. Particularly when fighting the Aztecs their good city-fighting properties are useful. And the Danes don't have bad cavalry..... Huscarls and Norse War Clerics are really good standing melee cavalry (The charge is still pretty powerful too) as well as conventional knights. Something that I have never understood though is why Viking Raiders cost more than Dismounted Huscarls (only by 5 florins, but still strange to me).

[scrapcode]

Spain.. I'm surprised only a few voted for it.

[Nelson]

Spain.. I'm surprised only a few voted for it.

Spain was the first faction I played in Medieval and Medieval2.

I have several favorites and Spain is one.

[Vladimir]

Spain is great but lacks early game competitiveness. It's hard to match the Italian states.

[edbenedict77]

Right now i am playing Milan on Hard/hard, and they :2thumbsup: Genoese Xbowmen are :smart: and I usually use Hospitaler knights for my cavalry, they are great too. I have finished the campaign by 1240 AD but noe slowly playing to get to the timurids. They will be LONg to come but I am loving my slow game of cloak, dagger and diplomacy now :bounce: I now dominate the papal seat, with all but one cardinal. Allied to Poland, Denmark and Papal states. (the last factions left) with mongols and Russians. Treasurey in 500k plus, so I paid the Papal states with florins and lands to crush the Mongols, and put a buffer between me and other factions. But they (Papal states) attacked, and made the Mongols their vassals :wall::wall: Sooo Now i can't attack the Mongols or assasinate their generals, for the grave consequence of loosing the Papal alliance :dizzy2: But I am bidding my time and starting Crusades whenever possible to break Papal allaince with Mongols :grin3: And paying the Poles and Danes to hit the Mongols :book2: Getting 40k profit each turn soooo florins are not a big problem. (key is to Hold Greece, North Africa and parts of mediterrenean provinces)