Just a quick question

[Knight of the Temple]

Why does the Master Horse Breeder not give a valour bonus to knights?

[Sensei Warrior]

This happens alot with units that need more than one type of building. Knights need horse, royal buildings, and armorer buildings. If you want valoured up Knights the guaranteed way to do it is to max out those three buildings.

IIRC if you look in the unitprod file, I heard that the first entry in the list of required buildings is the one you need to max out. I could be wrong on that, I'm sure Martok or Caravel will be stolling through at any moment.

[bamff]

Now THAT is interesting....I look forward to hearing the advice of our learned friends on that one.....

[caravel]

I've no clear idea how it works. It appears that certain buildings override others. Where the royal court is a dependency it appears to take precedence for the valour bonus over the horse breeder. The bonuses are not cumulative. The Ghulam Cavalry have the Spearmakers Guild listed before the Horse Breeder, but still get their valour bonus from the Master Horse Breeder and not the Master Spearmaker. There's probably some kind of ordered system for this. If you mod the last royal court buildable by all catholic factions I think Feudal And Chivalric Knights get the bonus from that when you build it.

[Sensei Warrior]

Oopsie, well like I said, I heard that if ...

I'd trust Caravel's opinion over mine any day. :yes:

[naut]

Just a thought, could relate to the order defined in the Build_Prod file.

[caravel]

That is a possibility... The troop producing buildings that ultimately upgrade valour through the master building are as follows in the build prod:

2) Bowyer
4) Swordsmith
6) Spearmaker
8) Gunsmith
9) Town_watch
23) Horse_breeder
24) Royal_court

The omitted buildings are the non producers and others.

From the table one could conclude that it is the buildings listed nearer to the bottom that take precedence. E.g. a unit that depends on a spearmaker armourer and royal court always gets it's bonus from the royal court. A unit that that depend on the bowyer and town watch would not get it's bonus from the town watch.

The majority of units either depend on 1 of the above buildings or one of the above and an armourer or other none producer such a ribat or military academy that doesn't give a bonus. This makes it difficult to tell. The units that depend on two or more +1 valour troop producers are usually cavalry.

The only units I can find that depend on two of the above buildings, and are not cavalry, are Janissary Infantry and Futuwwa:

JI: "{ SWORDSMITH3, MILITARY_ACADEMY, BOWYER4}"
Futuwwa: "{BOWYER3, SWORDSMITH}"

I'm pretty sure that neither of those get their valour bonus from the Master Bowyer. The Master Swordsmith (second in the list) gives the valour bonus in their case.

So this could very well be the case.
Just a thought, could relate to the order defined in the Build_Prod file.

[Geezer57]

If I remember the old posts correctly, it's the first building listed in the UNIT_PROD file that provides the valor bonus when upgraded to Master level. No bonus if Master level is required to build the unit, and Royal buildings (needed for Knights) don't really have a "master" building - so Knights don't get a valor bonus for buildings, only provinces.

In the examples you gave, Caravel, the JI get a bonus for Master Swordsmith, and Futuwwa for Master Boyer. That's what has always worked for me.

[caravel]

If I remember the old posts correctly, it's the first building listed in the UNIT_PROD file that provides the valor bonus when upgraded to Master level. No bonus if Master level is required to build the unit, and Royal buildings (needed for Knights) don't really have a "master" building - so Knights don't get a valor bonus for buildings, only provinces.

In the examples you gave, Caravel, the JI get a bonus for Master Swordsmith, and Futuwwa for Master Boyer. That's what has always worked for me.
That doesn't explain why Ghulam Cavalry get their valour bonus from the Master Horse Breeder, and not the Master Spearmaker. In their dependencies column in the unit prod file, the spearmaker is listed before the horse_breeder. :dizzy2:

Knights do have a master level building but it can only be built by the HRE and Italians IIRC it does give a valour bonus, though I could be mistaken.

[Geezer57]

Ghulams just have a contrary attitude? :inquisitive:

I almost never build them (preferring AHC), so haven't noticed the anomaly.

EDIT: after thinking about it for a while, I believe ALL non-knight/non-bodyguard cavalry gain the valor bonus from Master Horse Breeder (except those that require MHB to build). Maybe CA hard-coded that into the game?