Video Card Advice

[Shifty_GMH]

I am looking into buying a new video card. I would like to purchase a card that allows me to play with unit sizes on huge with graphic settings on high. Currently looking at the following three cards, but am open to suggestions...

ATI X1650 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814195031

ATI X1600 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814102678

XFX GeForce 7600GS
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814150166

Looking for 512mb card that has to be AGP 4X/8X (not willing to upgrade to PCI-Express yet)

Also considering 256mb cards that have 16 pixel pipelines instead of 12 (like those listed above)

BFG GeForce 7800GS
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814143046

My system Specs...
Intel P4 3.0E Prescott (3.0 GHz) with HT
ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe
1 GB (2x512mb) DDR 400 PC 3200 Corsair RAM (looking into getting another gig)
ATI 9800 Pro 128mb video card
300 GB Samsung SATA HD
Antec SP-500 (500 watt) Power Supply

Looking for some feedback... Thanks in advance.

[keravnos]

I would advise also checking out X 1950 from Ati as it too can be used on a AGP system.

I am doomed here. :no: I have a 4X AGP which cuts down my X800Pro card. Overall happy with EB, though.

Deffinitely keep from going PCI, yet.

[Shifty_GMH]

I would advise also checking out X 1950 from Ati as it too can be used on a AGP system.

I am doomed here. :no: I have a 4X AGP which cuts down my X800Pro card. Overall happy with EB, though.

Deffinitely keep from going PCI, yet.


I'll check it out. Thanks.

[Birka Viking]

Well if u want the best performance u must buy 7800gs..That card is absolute the best card of those. Then that day u shall uppgrade to pci/express u shall buy geforce 8800 gts or 8800 gtx.
What ever u do never buy some ati cards...They suck bigg times against geforce...trust me on this because I have pci/express ati x1950xtx 512 and I have never liked it....Then are ati very slow to have good force ware also to their cards..
Cheers

[Hydromorph]

Your asking for a lot out of AGP i am sorry to say, it would help to know what resolution you plan on playing at aswell.

Example

Dell XPS M1710 Laptop

CoreDuo 2.0GHz (Dual Core)
2GB DDR2 5400
GO 7900GTX 512MB

I cannot play Huge with Max setting but i run a resolution of 1920x1200 with Large Units and Max settings very smooth.

I think the best you can hope for is Large Units and Max settings at a 1280x1024 or 1440x900 running the 7800GS or 1950PRO.

You might be able to get 1600x1200 or 1600x1024 with Large Units and Max settings but i would not count on it.

[Shifty_GMH]

Your asking for a lot out of AGP i am sorry to say, it would help to know what resolution you plan on playing at aswell.

Example

Dell XPS M1710 Laptop

CoreDuo 2.0GHz (Dual Core)
2GB DDR2 5400
GO 7900GTX 512MB

I cannot play Huge with Max setting but i run a resolution of 1920x1200 with Large Units and Max settings very smooth.

I think the best you can hope for is Large Units and Max settings at a 1280x1024 or 1440x900 running the 7800GS or 1950PRO.

You might be able to get 1600x1200 or 1600x1024 with Large Units and Max settings but i would not count on it.

Still limited in my resolution settings as I still have an old AOC CRT monitor. I believe it is a 19" monitor (17" viewable). Settings are 1024x768 (will look into if my monitor can support a larger resolution). I currently play with large unit sizes but details mostly on low...except unit detail which I set on medium. Handles ok, but gets a little slow with large battles and when cities are involved.

I guess the goal is overall better graphics with unit size set on huge. Would be willing to put most graphic options on medium, or lower, if need be. Just as long as game play is smooth.

[Hydromorph]

Well at 1024x768 the 7800GS or 1950PRO should be able to pull off Huge Units and Max Settings with AA 2-4 and AF 4-8.

The X1950PRO (12TU - 36PS - 8VS) has more power than the 7800GS (16PP - 6VS) so if you need power the x1950pro is by far your best choice.

Hope this helps

[Boyar Son]

Just to let everyne know, 8800 is out! and it's the only card thats compatible with directx10

Though it is expensive, 600 dollars! unless you have euro's...

But the BFG is 449.99 and it's 8800 GTX (same as above)

Getting the new intel or AMD cpu's would be good too.

Personnaly SPQR, I would wait, save up even more money and get the BFG.

And if I choose one.....It's Geforce 7800 GS:2thumbsup:

[Birka Viking]

Well at 1024x768 the 7800GS or 1950PRO should be able to pull off Huge Units and Max Settings with AA 2-4 and AF 4-8.

The X1950PRO (12TU - 36PS - 8VS) has more power than the 7800GS (16PP - 6VS) so if you need power the x1950pro is by far your best choice.

Hope this helps


The x1950Pro have only 12 pipes and geforce 7800gs have 16 pipes...And its the pipes who is the most important in game preformance. And the pipes handle all information that flow through the card..
So my advice is that u shall buy 7800gs.....

[-Praetor-]

unit sizes on huge

Wait a minute:

If you want to handle 7000 to 10000 soldiers in a battlefield, graphic cards have not so much to do about it as a good amount of RAM and a good processor.

Cheers.

[Redigo]

The x1950Pro have only 12 pipes and geforce 7800gs have 16 pipes...And its the pipes who is the most important in game preformance. And the pipes handle all information that flow through the card..
So my advice is that u shall buy 7800gs.....

That's not even close to true any more. The word "pipeline" doesn't mean what it used to since the GPU-makers decoupled the pixel and vertext shaders. And the X1950 Pro is a much more powerful card than the 7800GS.

Tom's Hardware is occasionally suspect, but this is a pretty good review of the latest AGP cards. (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/index.html) Sample quote:

"[T]he X1950 PRO really pulled ahead when higher levels of anti-aliasing were used. Then again, for about $180 - over $50 less than the X1950 PRO - the 7600 GT makes a very compelling argument. It certainly delivers playable performance, at least as fast as the more expensive 7800 GS."

[hoom]

Of the original post options, the 7800GS is certainly the better choice, there is little point in anything less & certainly no point in a x600 grade card with 512MB.
A x8/x900 grade with 256MB will destroy that in performance easily except at unplayable high resolution with high AA/AF.

I have an X1900GT (PCI Express, '12 pipe', 256MB model) and am completely happy with its performance in well, everything I've thrown at it at 1920*1200 with min 2*AA & 8*AF.

Depending on resolution (ie unless you have need to play at higher resolutions than mine/with higher AA/AF), CPU speed is going to be your major limiting factor in a RTW based engine.

So I'd say either the 7800GS (apparently the most powerful Nvidia AGP card) or an X1950Pro AGP (newer & better than a X1900GT but similar price & it destroys the 7800GS in performance) is the way to go.
Or, if you are planning on mostly only playing EB at lower resolutions, the x600 grades from both ATI & Nvidia should be adequate.

[Birka Viking]

That's not even close to true any more. The word "pipeline" doesn't mean what it used to since the GPU-makers decoupled the pixel and vertext shaders. And the X1950 Pro is a much more powerful card than the 7800GS.

Tom's Hardware is occasionally suspect, but this is a pretty good review of the latest AGP cards. (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/index.html) Sample quote:

"[T]he X1950 PRO really pulled ahead when higher levels of anti-aliasing were used. Then again, for about $180 - over $50 less than the X1950 PRO - the 7600 GT makes a very compelling argument. It certainly delivers playable performance, at least as fast as the more expensive 7800 GS."

Its true on these old card that the pipes is important.....They havent even decoupled their pipes on atis best card x1950xtx 512 which I have. But on the new 8800 gts and 8800 gtx all pipes is gone and they have fixed so the vertext and pixel are the same...Toms Hard ware suck and I never look at their test...
So when a game are going very heavy my sugestion is that u buy Geforce...And this can I say from my own experience. THen U have ATIs very bad forceware to deal with also..They hardly never update and when they do they often do it bad...
Cheers

[hoom]

(This thread should probably get moved to the Hardware & Software section.)

Uhhh... ATI Catalyst drivers are released monthly & are always WHQL certified vs. Nvidias occasional releases with only occasional WHQL certification.

An X1950XTX has 48 pixel shaders vs 16 ROPs = decoupled.

Its true that given the choice between a (new generation) 8800 and a (previous generation) X1950, it would be silly to go for the ATI card but the next gen of ATI (R600) is due out in the next couple of months & should be more than adequate competition to the 8800s.
But anyway, these cards are outside the price range of the original poster so irrelevant.

I don't understand how you can be disappointed with the performance of an X1950XTX, its immensely powerful :inquisitive:

[Birka Viking]

Well so powerful isent myx1950xtx 512 card when games goes heavy. Becouse my card still only have 16 pipes. A friend to me have geforce 7900gs 512 and that card have 20 pipes. We have tested game after game which one who preform best under tough gaming and his preform better on almost everygame. But my card have much higher score on 3dmark05 and 3dmark06 than his. So 3dmark dont say so much I think...
Cheers

[MaximusGauis]

I would advise also checking out X 1950 from Ati as it too can be used on a AGP system.

I am doomed here. :no: I have a 4X AGP which cuts down my X800Pro card. Overall happy with EB, though.

Deffinitely keep from going PCI, yet. X800Pro. Heck on my Desktop I'm still using my ole TI4200 for RTW and BI. On my Lappy X200M.

[MaximusGauis]

I am looking into buying a new video card. I would like to purchase a card that allows me to play with unit sizes on huge with graphic settings on high. Currently looking at the following three cards, but am open to suggestions...

ATI X1650 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814195031

ATI X1600 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814102678

XFX GeForce 7600GS
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814150166

Looking for 512mb card that has to be AGP 4X/8X (not willing to upgrade to PCI-Express yet)

Also considering 256mb cards that have 16 pixel pipelines instead of 12 (like those listed above)

BFG GeForce 7800GS
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814143046

My system Specs...
Intel P4 3.0E Prescott (3.0 GHz) with HT
ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe
1 GB (2x512mb) DDR 400 PC 3200 Corsair RAM (looking into getting another gig)
ATI 9800 Pro 128mb video card
300 GB Samsung SATA HD
Antec SP-500 (500 watt) Power Supply

Looking for some feedback... Thanks in advance.
How soon will you be upgrading to PCIe?

[hoom]

We have tested game after game which one who preform best under tough gaming and his preform better on almost everygame. Then there is something very wrong with the rest of your PC because an X1950XTX should beat a 7900GS in absolutely everything.

[Oleo]

Then there is something very wrong with the rest of your PC because an X1950XTX should beat a 7900GS in absolutely everything.

Indeed,

For instance, assuming they know how to test: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=582&model2=586&chart=214

Prey 1280x1024 4aa 8af, 80 vs 40 fps.....
Oblivion 1280x1024 no aa 8 af, 95 vs 60 fps....
HL2 1280x1024 4aa 8af 109 vs 62 fps...

[Birka Viking]

Nothing wrong with my comp. I have intels dualcore 6600 processor and 2 GB DDR2 PC 6400 memory....

[Eduorius]

Just wanted to ask something to you guys.

I want to play Medieval 2 in the Best quality?

My videocard is 256 MB and very good, and I have a 512 RAM. The graphics are awesome but the units move slow.

Any advice what could it be?

[Foot]

Just wanted to ask something to you guys.

I want to play Medieval 2 in the Best quality?

My videocard is 256 MB and very good, and I have a 512 RAM. The graphics are awesome but the units move slow.

Any advice what could it be?

RAM needs to be much higher, at the very minimum you want 1024 nowadays, but having a full 2 gigs of RAM is to be preferred. Also, just because your videocard is 256mb, it doesn't really say anything, the whole gfx card package must be accounted for. What type is it?

Foot

[Eduorius]

well it is a e-GeForce 6200 LE

DDR2 256 MB AGP8X

[Foot]

well it is a e-GeForce 6200 LE

DDR2 256 MB AGP8X

That would be why. The 6200 is certainly not a gaming card. Something I only found out recently is that the lower the number (6 is the series, its the 200/600/800 thats the important number), the lower the quality of card. It doesn't matter what series of card you are getting, be it 5, 6 or 7, the minimum you want to have is the 600, but 800 is far superior. I would definately look to upgrade your card to at least a 6800, or get into the 7600 and above range if you want to play MTW2. I have a 6600, and while I can have high detail for most things (no shadows though or most other fancy stuff) for small half-stack battles, anything bigger and I have to start putting the settings down quite a lot. The campaign map crawls as well, which is annoying.

Foot

[Eduorius]

and what about the RAM?

Should I upgrade that too from 512 MB?

[Foot]

Yes, oh yes definately. As I said 1024 is the minimum you can get away with nowadays. If you have the money to spare I would suggest going further and either getting 1.5 gigs or 2 gigs in total to really boost your gaming power.

Foot

[Cheexsta]

I recently bought a GeForce 7600 GS OC 512MB (I'm also a bit hesitant about getting a new mobo for PCI-e), and it has significantly improved EB at least. The campaign map only goes about 10-15% more smoothly, but the real kicker is in battles. Grass no longer drops my framerate into the single digits, and the only setting that seems to slow battles down too much are building textures (though I think I can safely attribute this to my lack of RAM).

My next purchase will be a gig or so of RAM, and that should help me out even more.

Bear in mind also that I have upgraded from a GeForce FX5700, so the bar wasn't really set all that high to begin with ~D

[skuzzy]

If you're looking to upgrade your video though, it's definitely worth PCI-E. Not only does it offer double the pipelines but since AGP is no longer mass produced PCI-E cards are significantly better for the price. A PCI-E motherboard itself would only be $60-$120 and at the price video cards cost it really isn't worth upgrading an AGP slot card.

Otherwise, the best card for the price if you only want to play EB would probably be an Radeon x800xt.

[hoom]

I have upgraded from a GeForce FX5700, so the bar wasn't really set all that high to begin withPoor guy :no: that 7600GS will be like a dream in comparison :beam:


Nothing wrong with my comp. I have intels dualcore 6600 processor and 2 GB DDR2 PC 6400 memoryWell you certainly have excellent hardware but it may not be properly set up eg improperly installed drivers/system resource hogging software using CPU cycles.

Or you are running at much higher resolution like a 30" LCD (2048*1600) & with maxed AA/AF vs the 7900GS at 1280*1024 or something ~:wacko:

[Shifty_GMH]

How soon will you be upgrading to PCIe?

Probably around 2 years.

Once I get my tax return I will decide between the two following:

ATI X1950 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814102071

GeForce 7800GS
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814143046

I will also be getting another brink of RAM (1 GB) to bring my system up to 2 gigs.

Want to thank all you guys for your responses. Happy gaming to all.

P.S. - Games I play when I find the time are EB, Roma Surrectum, RTR (will play this one more when they release 7.0), and MTW2. Might start playing AE (when they finally release 3.0). Used to play BF1942 (a classic), BF2, and COD. Looking into Battlestations: Midway and Storm of War: Battle of Britain.

[MaximusGauis]

Probably around 2 years.

Once I get my tax return I will decide between the two following:

ATI X1950 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814102071

GeForce 7800GS
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814143046

I will also be getting another brink of RAM (1 GB) to bring my system up to 2 gigs.

Want to thank all you guys for your responses. Happy gaming to all.

P.S. - Games I play when I find the time are EB, Roma Surrectum, RTR (will play this one more when they release 7.0), and MTW2. Might start playing AE (when they finally release 3.0). Used to play BF1942 (a classic), BF2, and COD. Looking into Battlestations: Midway and Storm of War: Battle of Britain. Since you are waiting two years befire you go with PCIe. Buy the X1950PRO. That's the best for the ole AGP.

[MaximusGauis]

I just checked NewCard. The have the X1950 Pro. In stock from HIS. That vid card is the best. The one you want is 256 with the ICEQ3. It's on sale with a $20 rebate. If I was not flat broke. I would buy that vid card for my Desktop. The HIS with the ICEQ3. Is clocked higher with the 256. Than the one with 512. Plus the ICEQ3 is their best vid card cooler.

[Birka Viking]

If anyone dont belive me that the pipes is the most important on the old generation graficcards...then can someone explain this then..On my old comp I have geforce 6800le 128 mb card. The card has only 8 pipes original..I then downloaded a program called Rivaturner and managed to open 8 more pipes. So my card had 16 pipes and become almost a 6800 gt card. My game performance almost doubled after that...
Cheers

[MaximusGauis]

If anyone dont belive me that the pipes is the most important on the old generation graficcards...then can someone explain this then..On my old comp I have geforce 6800le 128 mb card. The card has only 8 pipes original..I then downloaded a program called Rivaturner and managed to open 8 more pipes. So my card had 16 pipes and become almost a 6800 gt card. My game performance almost doubled after that...
Cheers
There are some vid cards. Such as yours. That you can unlock those extra pipes. Now if your card had 256mb. You would have a 6800GT.

[Eduorius]

so in conclusion a 6800 is better than a 7100 for videogames?

[Puupertti Ruma]

Didn't have time to read the whole thread so not sure if this has been said but:

If you wan't a good AGP-based card, either take one based on Nvidias Geforce 7600GT or 7800GS chipset. 7800GS is the best you can get with AGP, but it's quite costly, near 300€ (~300$).

7600 GT in the otherhand doesn't cost too much, while giving a lot better quality and performance than 7600 GS. Price of 7600 GT is usually just 30-50€ more than 7600 GS. And yes, there is 7600 GT out there for the AGP, it's not a mistake. I have one, and boy does it rock.

All in all, regarding RTW, my old Geforce 6600 GT was more than enough to play on huge units, had to just scale the details.

So, if you have AGP, GET THE 7600GT. Or 7800GS, if you can handle the price.

[Birka Viking]

so in conclusion a 6800 is better than a 7100 for videogames?

If it is a GT YES!:yes:

[Axelus]

I upgraded my Radeon 9000 to a Geforce 6600, and it did not change the framerate very much, except a little when 2 fullstack armies on huge settings battle, and using fire arrows, which previously caused very low frames. I've had 1gb of 400mhz ram during all the time, and that is more important, and/or perhaps a good motherboard.

[Birka Viking]

I upgraded my Radeon 9000 to a Geforce 6600, and it did not change the framerate very much, except a little when 2 fullstack armies on huge settings battle, and using fire arrows, which previously caused very low frames. I've had 1gb of 400mhz ram during all the time, and that is more important, and/or perhaps a good motherboard.

Well if u have a 6600gt it only have 8 pipes and for that reason its not so good to play on..But a 6800gt have 16 pipes..
Cheers

[Bar Kochba]

i brought a Gefroce 7950 GT 512mb well worth the money but it is quite expensive though

[Birka Viking]

i brought a Gefroce 7950 GT 512mb well worth the money but it is quite expensive though

Yes that is a realy good card :balloon2: