A question about Seleukid reforms for .81

[DeathEmperor]

Well I heard from Fondor Yards that the Seleukid reforms would be working in .81 through the old Marians I think.

My question is just how extensive will these reforms be? Will Arche Seleukeia get a whole new roster of units, same units with improved stats, or a combination of both? Just asking cause the Seleukids are my favourite faction and I love learning more about them, especially when it comes to EB. :book:

[Lovejoy]

Hmm... many people seem to like Seleukid, why is that? They are so big, its hard to keep the empire together. Heh, maybe thats what people like.

Give me 5 good reasons why Seleukid is fun, and my next camp will be as them! :D

EDIT: Sry I could be to no help!

[DeathEmperor]

Give me 5 good reasons why Seleukid is fun, and my next camp will be as them! :D

Not sure if I can give you 5, but the main reason for me is because I'm a huge fan of the Successors and Seleukos and his empire just fascinate me and capture my imagination more than any of the others.

1. Challenging campaign being surrounded by potential enemies. :sweatdrop:

2. You have a rival (the Ptolemaioi) that forces you to strategise both on the campaign and in battles. :whip:

3. Excellant roster of units such as Indian elephants (if you hold on to and build up certain provinces), Kataphractoi (if you fight them your army "learns" how to train them too), and cool elite units like the Argyraspid phalanxes and Argyraspid Thorakitai. :2thumbsup:

4. You're more recognized and respected by the other factions so to speak, so getting alliances, map info, and trade rights is easier with them than other faction from my experience.

5. You're playing as the greatest of the Successor kingdoms. How can you not like that? :beam:

[Kull]

Well I heard from Fondor Yards that the Seleukid reforms would be working in .81 through the old Marians I think.

My question is just how extensive will these reforms be? Will Arche Seleukeia get a whole new roster of units, same units with improved stats, or a combination of both? Just asking cause the Seleukids are my favourite faction and I love learning more about them, especially when it comes to EB. :book:

The Seleukid Reform does one thing and one thing only, it makes the Cataphract unit recruitable (Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi). For now the reform is simulated by the old marian_reforms trigger, although that will change.

FWIW, here are the other units triggered into being by the vanilla marian_reforms (this is COMPLETELY different from - and unrelated to - the ingame Roman Marian Reform):

1) Makedonian Hysteroi Pezhetairoi (came into being as a response to battling Roman units)
2) Both Roman Liburnes (a later era unit not present in 272 BC)
3) Five Saka Greek-style infantry units (in lieu of the Saka Reform)

[DeathEmperor]

The Seleukid Reform does one thing and one thing only, it makes the Cataphract unit recruitable (Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi). For now the reform is simulated by the old marian_reforms trigger, although that will change.

Oh I thought they were gonna get imitation legionnaries or something.:embarassed:

Actually in my EB install I managed to get Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi after I fought some Baktrian Kataphracts in my current Seleukid campaign. Is this just for me or have others also gotten them this way in .8? :idea2:

[Imperator]

Give me 5 good reasons why Seleukid is fun, and my next camp will be as them! :D
easy:

1) Tactical Difficulty: You've got so many fronts and potential enemies, it's a real tactical challenge to use your limited funds (even more limited in .81 when the economy is back to being super-hard) to protect your vast empire from all your neighbors.

2) Strategic Diversity: You have to be good enough to fight not only well-drilled phalanxes from Ptolemy, but horse-archer armies from the steppe, heavy infantry armies from Pontus, Galatia, and Baktria (who also has some phalanxes- good ones too), and skirmisher armies from Arabia.

3) Unit/Faction Diversity: You get to see more cool formations, skins, and factions from the very start of the game that most factions will see for their ENTIRE game! :2thumbsup:

4) Cool-ness Factor: You're the heir to Alexander! Macedon is too small to be the true heir, and Ptolemy stole Alexander's body along with Egypt after he (probably) poisoned Alexander himself! You are the only "Empire" the game has from the start (well, maybe Carthage to a lesser extent) and get to be a Super-power from the start!!! A rise to power is cool, but who wouldn't like saying "Insolent fools! You dare challenge the might of Arche Selukia?" They also have a huge number of units and some of the sweetest units/skins in the game!!! (cataphracts, elite phalanxes, galatians, bajillions of mercs, etc)

5) Possibilites: In 272, there's so much to do and conquer, and you're in a perfect position to do it! Do you abandon the east and build a Mediterranean Empire? Or do you leave Ptolomy to squeeze money out of that fetid lake and expand into India and dominate the middle and far east? Maybe you'll try to hold your empire together, and slowly expand on all fronts? Or abandon your far-flung provinces on all sides and build up a small super-nation in the nucleus of your empire before marching out again! So many questions, so many decisions, and all will have a global effect!

6) eye-candy (this one is my opinion): coolest traits, phenominal skins, and maybe you'll try to recover Alexander's body?

reason enough for you?:yes:
:egypt: = :skull:

[Thaatu]

...Ptolemy stole Alexander's body along with Egypt after he (probably) poisoned Alexander himself!
Aagh, propaganda! Ban this man! :fainting:

[DeathEmperor]

Kickass post Imperator! *high fives* :2thumbsup:

Always awesome to meet a fellow fanatic of the true heirs of Alexander! :beam:

[Lovejoy]

Hehe, I'm convinced! :laugh4: As soon as 0.81 hits the street Ill give it a go. (Or sooner) Seems kinda awsome, too bad I never given them a real chance earlier.

[CaesarAugustus]

6) eye-candy (this one is my opinion): coolest traits, phenominal skins, and maybe you'll try to recover Alexander's body?

reason enough for you?:yes:
:egypt: = :skull:

Well, Imperator, you've convinced me to play my next long campaign as the Seleukids, instead of the Ptolemies. One of the most interesting things is recovering Alexander's body. How does this work? Do you have to trigger something that gives you the oppurtunity, or just conquer Alexandria?

[Fondor_Yards]

Well, Imperator, you've convinced me to play my next long campaign as the Seleukids, instead of the Ptolemies. One of the most interesting things is recovering Alexander's body. How does this work? Do you have to trigger something that gives you the oppurtunity, or just conquer Alexandria?

Take Alexanderia, wait a turn, and destory the "coffen of alexander" thingie. Then have that general go to Pella and stay there for a turn.

[Kongeslask]

Take Alexanderia, wait a turn, and destory the "coffen of alexander" thingie. Then have that general go to Pella and stay there for a turn.

I tried that after I had taken Pella. I had one general in Alexandreia, and I demolished the tomb. I expected that one turn later he would gain a trait signifying that the mummy was being transported with his entourage, but no such thing happened. Therefore I assumed that the quest does not currently work. Am I mistaken in this? Will it work if I send him to Pella regardless?

[BozosLiveHere]

You shouldn't destroy the tomb before getting the Nikesas Alexandreias trait. You'll get it either upon conquering Alexandria or staying there for 1 turn. Upon getting the trait, you should destroy the tomb and wait till next turn (don't move your general). The trait should change to Alexandros Recovered. Now take this general to Pella and let him end the turn there. It should work.

[Imperator]

Always awesome to meet a fellow fanatic of the true heirs of Alexander!
thanks, we true sons of Alexandros must stick together against the cursed half-breed, man-worshiping, "all your base are belong to us" Ptolomies!:furious3:

the Selukids are among my favorite factions (for 6 reasons...wonder what those could be?:laugh4: ) and I'm waiting for 8.1 to play my long-anticipated campaign with them. (VH/VH- it promises to be the single hardest, most intense RTW thrill-ride of my life. It occurs to me that when I start that campaign, it will be the first time in my life I could actually lose a campaign...for real! :dizzy2: )
Then again, I feel like that for so many factions in EB, and I can come up with 5 equally good reasons to play as ANY other faction in EB.

Thanks EB team, for a mod so great that every faction is 100% unique and fun!:2thumbsup:

[Kongeslask]

He is Nikesas Alexandreias. Does it have to be on the very next turn? Because I had him sitting in Alexsandreia, the tomb untouched until I had actually seized Pella. The trait most certainly did not change.

[BozosLiveHere]

Nope. You need to wait a turn inside Alexandria after blowing up the tomb though.

[Kongeslask]

Well, it obviously did not work properly, because he hasn't got such a trait. There seems to be a bug here.

[BozosLiveHere]

You were right, the trigger was tracking the wrong building name.

If you're not afraid of doing some trait editing, open export_descr_character_traits and replace all instances of SettlementBuildingExists = hap1 with SettlementBuildingExists = hap5. There are 6 of them. It should work afterwards.

[Ludens]

You shouldn't destroy the tomb before getting the Nikesas Alexandreias trait. You'll get it either upon conquering Alexandria or staying there for 1 turn. Upon getting the trait, you should destroy the tomb and wait till next turn (don't move your general). The trait should change to Alexandros Recovered. Now take this general to Pella and let him end the turn there. It should work.
Doesn't it make more sense for the Seleucids to bring him Seleuceia? Because as it is they have to defeat Makedon as well as Egypt to complete this quest.

Also does it have to be the Nikesas Alexandreias who brings him back or can someone else do it, so my general can go on conquer the Egyptian cities to the south?

[BozosLiveHere]

Doesn't it make more sense for the Seleucids to bring him Seleuceia? Because as it is they have to defeat Makedon as well as Egypt to complete this quest.

Also does it have to be the Nikesas Alexandreias who brings him back or can someone else do it, so my general can go on conquer the Egyptian cities to the south?

It has to be the Nikesas Alexandreias guy.

[Ludens]

It has to be the Nikesas Alexandreias guy.
Pity. Thanks for the answer.

[BozosLiveHere]

If there was a somewhat simple way of spreading traits "up" the family tree, I could make it different, but as it is, my hands are tied.

[Tellos Athenaios]

But if you could create a boolean which is by default set to zero, and switched to 1 if some FM picks up the trait? Script reactivating might mess it up though...

Can you alter the preferences.txt through scripted events? If so, all you need to do would be to create one specific prefence line in that text with such a boolean...

[keravnos]

Oh I thought they were gonna get imitation legionnaries or something.:embarassed:

Actually in my EB install I managed to get Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi after I fought some Baktrian Kataphracts in my current Seleukid campaign. Is this just for me or have others also gotten them this way in .8? :idea2:

In EB, immitation legionnaires are called "Thorakitai". You must know their elite version the "Thorakitai Argyraspidai". :2thumbsup: To cut a long story short, when Romani would see "Thorakitai" they would call them "Immitation legionary".

[keravnos]

Doesn't it make more sense for the Seleucids to bring him Seleuceia? Because as it is they have to defeat Makedon as well as Egypt to complete this quest.

Also does it have to be the Nikesas Alexandreias who brings him back or can someone else do it, so my general can go on conquer the Egyptian cities to the south?

Well, the self-proclaimed goal of Antiochos III, the greatest Seleukid king was to re-create the Empire of Alexander, and to do that he would have to go "back home" to Makedonia. This "trait" obviously wants you to try and take the same route. See what happened had "Magnesia" not occured.


thanks, we true sons of Alexandros must stick together against the cursed half-breed, man-worshiping, "all your base are belong to us" Ptolomies!

the Selukids are among my favorite factions (for 6 reasons...wonder what those could be? ) and I'm waiting for 8.1 to play my long-anticipated campaign with them. (VH/VH- it promises to be the single hardest, most intense RTW thrill-ride of my life. It occurs to me that when I start that campaign, it will be the first time in my life I could actually lose a campaign...for real! )
Then again, I feel like that for so many factions in EB, and I can come up with 5 equally good reasons to play as ANY other faction in EB.

Thanks EB team, for a mod so great that every faction is 100% unique and fun!

Well, in all honesty, GOOD LUCK. I am playing the Baktrians in VH/VH and it is tough. Not completely out of whack, but tough. I can't honestly imagine how hard Seleukeia will be. :sweatdrop:

[DeathEmperor]

In EB, immitation legionnaires are called "Thorakitai". You must know their elite version the "Thorakitai Argyraspidai". :2thumbsup: To cut a long story short, when Romani would see "Thorakitai" they would call them "Immitation legionary".

Ah now I get it! Thanks for clearing that up keravnos. :beam:

So has it been fixed so that the AS can recruit hypaspistai too? Or will I have to wait till a later patch to make the *perfect (*in my mind) Seleukid army? :book:

[Sdragon]

Ah now I get it! Thanks for clearing that up keravnos. :beam:

So has it been fixed so that the AS can recruit hypaspistai too? Or will I have to wait till a later patch to make the *perfect (*in my mind) Seleukid army? :book:

Use Thorakitai Argyraspidai instead, they look cooler and are more manly than the hypaspistai. They take a monster 3 turns to recruit though.

[BozosLiveHere]

But if you could create a boolean which is by default set to zero, and switched to 1 if some FM picks up the trait? Script reactivating might mess it up though...

Can you alter the preferences.txt through scripted events? If so, all you need to do would be to create one specific prefence line in that text with such a boolean...

It doesn't work that way, if you put I_CompareCounter in edct you get a CTD.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Nah, was thinking on the line:

REFORM_ACTIVATED: FALSE

and some scripted bit which would edit the boolean if conditions had been met to

REFORM_ACTIVATED: TRUE

So it's not realy about using variables from the script, it's more about editing .txt files through the script. It won't work anyway - I see now.

[Ludens]

Well, the self-proclaimed goal of Antiochos III, the greatest Seleukid king was to re-create the Empire of Alexander, and to do that he would have to go "back home" to Makedonia. This "trait" obviously wants you to try and take the same route. See what happened had "Magnesia" not occured.
I can see the logic behind it, but it doesn't necessarily follow that a Seleucid king would take Makedon and Egypt in short order. Especially not since Makedon is an ally and the Seleucids do not lack enemies in other theatres.

[Fondor_Yards]

I can see the logic behind it, but it doesn't necessarily follow that a Seleucid king would take Makedon and Egypt in short order. Especially not since Makedon is an ally and the Seleucids do not lack enemies in other theatres.

Well it could also be macedon that takes his body back to Pella, they can do it as well. Or you could wait till you have Pella. Or you could wait till you beat the Ptolemaics, THEN go to war with whoever has Pella and bring his body back then. He's dead, and not going anywhere else soon. Dunno about Baktria or Greece but I doubt they can bring his body back too..

[Ludens]

Well it could also be macedon that takes his body back to Pella, they can do it as well. Or you could wait till you have Pella. Or you could wait till you beat the Ptolemaics, THEN go to war with whoever has Pella and bring his body back then. He's dead, and not going anywhere else soon.
Yes, but my query was specifically concerned with the Seleucids. Also, although Alexander may not be going anywhere, you have to conquer Pella before the Nikesas Alexandrias dies, as he's the only one who can bring him back.

Edit: before you get the wrong idea, I do like these missions and in fact I wish there were more like them. I am just wondering at the restrictions, but I guess they are limitations of the R:TW trait-system.

[Kongeslask]

What would be examples of historically plausible missions of this type?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

If you don't tear down the tomb, and the guy who conquered and governed the city dies... Then a hundred years later, could you tear down the tomb of Alexander and ship that governor at that time to Pella? Or does it have to be the conqueror?

[BozosLiveHere]

If you don't tear down the tomb, and the guy who conquered and governed the city dies... Then a hundred years later, could you tear down the tomb of Alexander and ship that governor at that time to Pella? Or does it have to be the conqueror?

That's what I was going to explain to Ludens. You don't have to destroy the tomb right away. You can wait until you conquer Pella and then whatever general is sitting in Alexandria will get the mission when you destroy the tomb.

[Watchman]

Let me go this over again, just to make sure. So the "Nikesas Alexandrias" trait is really just akin to the Qarthie "Conqueror of Syracuse/Rome" "feel-good" reward traits, and as such has no bearing on the "Return Alex" quest proper which is 'triggered', at basically any time, by destroying the tomb building in Alexandria... right ?


Use Thorakitai Argyraspidai instead, they look cooler and are more manly than the hypaspistai....so, they're bad enough dudes to save the Basileos ?
:shifty:
...what ?

[BozosLiveHere]

No, no, no "Nikesas Alexandrias" is very important, but you have to keep in mind that it will trigger for all generals that stay for at least a turn in Alexandria with the tomb still there. It will turn into "Alexandros Recovered" when you destroy the tomb and end the turn. Then you can make the journey to Pella.

[DeathEmperor]

Hey guess I just figured it out!

Alright most of us here know that the populations of major cities you capture like Rome, Syracuse, Antiocheia, Seleukeia, etc. tend to boom after you either enslave or exterminate them. Well in my current Seleukid campaign I accidently caused Alexandria-in-Egypt to revolt after I destroyed the temple of Sarapis ( a lot of them worshipped Sarapis apparently :laugh4: ) and tried to replace it with a temple to Seleukos. Well the next turn the city revolted and I didn't have enough money to repair everything (playing on h/m here) so I took out my entire garrison and the turn after there was a civil revolt.


Naturally the city revolted back to Ptolemaioi control so a full stack of their soldiers magically appeared and attacked the garrison I had placed outside of the city. The governor and the garrison easily defeated them, and the next turn I stormed Alexandria and wiped out the populance.


In addition to all the mnai I got my governor recieved the "Nikeias Alexandria" trait! Now the city is easily managed and I got a nice infusion into my depleted treasury. So guys what I'm saying is if you want to take the mission later and the original Nikeias Alexandria guy is either too old or dead just let the city revolt and have the young rising general you want to send over to Macedonia come in and capture the city after it's revolted. It worked for me and i'm planning to try it out again in the future. :smash:

[Ludens]

No, no, no "Nikesas Alexandrias" is very important, but you have to keep in mind that it will trigger for all generals that stay for at least a turn in Alexandria with the tomb still there. It will turn into "Alexandros Recovered" when you destroy the tomb and end the turn. Then you can make the journey to Pella.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation.

[Eduorius]

I have a question.

Historically this reform was done by Antiochus III Megas?

The reform was done between the timeframe of Raphia and Magnesia?