Shield Wall

[Erugolon]

After trying a campaign using the BI.exe, I was wondering what the team thought about the shield wall formation.

If the team were to include it, which units, if any, would use it?

Thanks

[Eduorius]

I am not of the team, but I think that some Celtic units and maybe the phalanx of hoplites.

[Mr Kaplan]

Just a question Erugolon, can you play custom battles playing with BI.exe?
If so, how did you manage?

Thanks.

[abou]

After trying a campaign using the BI.exe, I was wondering what the team thought about the shield wall formation.

If the team were to include it, which units, if any, would use it?

Thanks
The problem is that the shield wall is part of BI, which is a purchasable add-on and not something the team can simply put in. Although, I think an EB Platinum Edition in the manner of RTR is possible, would would use BI and some of the things that BI introduces.

[Lovejoy]

EB is for 1.5 and 1.5 only (from what I've understand). This, however, doesnt stop anyone from the outside to do it. As a minimod.

[Bonny]

Look at the unofficial modding forum, there is aminimod for eb with bi.exe, which introduces the shildwall to several units

[Erugolon]

Just a question Erugolon, can you play custom battles playing with BI.exe?
If so, how did you manage?

Thanks.

I'm been unable to do it either unfortunately. I tried the suggestion of copying the imperial_campaign folder and renaming it barbarian_invasion but that didn't work for me. I would like to know how though, like yourself. Sorry I couldn't have been any more help.


The problem is that the shield wall is part of BI, which is a purchasable add-on and not something the team can simply put in. Although, I think an EB Platinum Edition in the manner of RTR is possible, would would use BI and some of the things that BI introduces.

I realise this and I wasn't suggesting that you should put it in for the main release. However, I had thought maybe it might be possible, as you say, to have a seperate version that took advantage of features of BI.


Look at the unofficial modding forum, there is aminimod for eb with bi.exe, which introduces the shildwall to several units

This is actually what prompted me to post about this. I've tried the minimod and I was surprised about some of the units that did or did not have shield wall. For example, thureophoroi have it but hypaspistai do not. I got the sense that thureophoroi were lighter more mobile units so this does not seem appropriate. Hypaspistai, on the other hand, are described as fighting in the old hoplite manner.

So, I'm wondering what the EB team's view of this is.

Thank you all for your help

[mcantu]

The problem is that the shield wall is part of BI, which is a purchasable add-on and not something the team can simply put in. Although, I think an EB Platinum Edition in the manner of RTR is possible, would would use BI and some of the things that BI introduces.


I dont understand this. There's nothing directly from BI that the team has to put into EB. In order to use Shield Wall it only has to be listed as a possible formation for a unit in the EDU.

[blank]

I dont understand this. There's nothing directly from BI that the team has to put into EB. In order to use Shield Wall it only has to be listed as a possible formation for a unit in the EDU.

yes i remember the unit simply wouldn't have the ability if played with 1.5 or lower, it wouldn't cause compatibility issues. But, i also remember it requires some icon from a BI pack file, or the icon looks really horrible

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi,
I would presume that some Celtic, most Germanic units and and some Greek units, such as hoplites would use it should EB introduce it. However from what has been said in this thread, I doubt they ever will, although it would be a very nice feature to include in "vanilla" EB if possible.

[Erugolon]

I'd just like to add, I was also surprised by that mini-mod in that some units with the phalanx formation had it replaced by shield_wall. It seems to be any of the hoplites fighting in the Iphikrates manner including Liby-phoenicians, Triarii, Hoplitai Haploi etc...

From their descriptions and the teams choice to use the phalanx formation, it seems to me they should have longer spears and thus shield_wall is inappropriate. So, I'm wondering would the team depict any of the units with the phalanx formation differently if they had access to shield_wall?

[Bonny]

yes i remember the unit simply wouldn't have the ability if played with 1.5 or lower, it wouldn't cause compatibility issues. But, i also remember it requires some icon from a BI pack file, or the icon looks really horrible

You get a ctd if you trie to use schildwall in RTW 1.5.

If you play on bi exe you need to add shield_wall to unit formation in edu

Here is an example


;173
type greek infantry taxeis hoplitai
dictionary greek_infantry_taxeis_hoplitai ; Hoplitai Haploi
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier hellenistic_infantry_taxeishoplitai_poenicitizenmilitia, 40, 0, 1
officer officer_hellenic_officer
mount_effect horse +1, camel +1, elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest
formation 1, 1.2, 2, 2.4, 4, square, shield_wall
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 5, 5, 4, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 9, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 802, 200, 30, 40, 802
ownership greek_cities, macedon, thrace, slave, carthage, pontus, gauls, britons, scythia, dacia, germans, spain, parthia, seleucid


I used it for following units, but i'm far away to be historian:

Hopites
Hoplites Haploi
Spartiates Hoplite (sp?)
Hypaspistai
Massilian Hoplites
Thorakitai
Lybu Phoenician Infantry (early and late)
Lybian Infatry (late)

[Kralizec]

What does shieldwall actually do, for you BI initiates?

[Fondor_Yards]

Well, they form a wall of shields, not really sure how else to describe it.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Shieldwall.JPG

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi Fenring,
The shield wall is a very tightly packed formation, so it should not be used when enemy missiles are raining down on you. It is really just a more balanced phalanx. It is less vulnerable to flank attacks that the phalanx yet it is more vulnerable to strong frontal assaults. This makes it a useful tool for defence, but it's low movement speed cause it to be terrible in an attack. In that case the best option is to take the unit out of the shield wall formation till you get into combat.

I hope this helps, cheers!

[mcantu]

Shield Wall is also very effective agaisnt phalanx units, even from the front. They will push their way in between the pikes in order to reach the soldiers with their shorter spears

[Thorlof]

Shield wall,schiltrtom units can swimp and new formation to EB with BI.Add CTD fix MarcusAureliusAntoninus http://files.filefront.com/TBS_to_EB.../fileinfo.html more after EB 0.81

[Kralizec]

Shield Wall is also very effective agaisnt phalanx units, even from the front. They will push their way in between the pikes in order to reach the soldiers with their shorter spears

That would be useful...if there's any type of soldier that can move their way through a solid wall of pikes, it's got to be (classical) hoplites.

I thought BigTex mentioned in another thread though that shieldwalling units get butchered by pikes?

Can the shieldwall support more then one weapon?

[Zarax]

Shield wall units can be balanced against pikes, in XGM we lowered phalangites unit mass to 0.9 and raised some units to 1.5 or more...