japan as the next expansion plz

[Callahan9119]

japan was a great start for the franchise, small map, similar units for all factions. i feel this would be easy to revisit via an expansion and given the advances in the tw series a japanese based game would not fit the bill as a stand alone release imo

i really hope they dont go the route of using the same map as m2tw, i despise the lack of glorious achievments in m2tw and if its a conquest based game, where better than japan for this? :smash:

some might say the americas or napoleon era, but i dont think the engine or the AI is ready for gunpowder heavy combat as its main basis, and frankly i feel japan is more interesting as an expansion than any further conflict in europe, as this has basically been the stage for the past 4 releases

unless they are planning the next game to move way east, and includes china, japan, korea and india :smash:

conquest victory just doesnt feel right in medieval times, conquest in japan feels oh so right :yes:

[caius britannicus]

Its already been confirmed that the expansion pack for m2 will be the americas. Hopefully though, the next total war game will be Shogun 2.

[PseRamesses]

Its already been confirmed that the expansion pack for m2 will be the americas.
Where did u get that info. Nothing on CA, SEGA or TW-sites to confirm. Do post links or source. Thx.

[caius britannicus]

jeux-france.com posted the article back when m2tw was being released. It was later confirmed by another source. I'll see if I can find. I figured by now it was common knowledge. There was tons of hoopla here and at the TWC about it with plenty of discussion.

EDIT: it wasn't jeux_france but jeuxvideo anyways they say that an expansion is already in the works at CA and focuses on the americas.

http://www.jeuxvideo.com/news/2006/00018446.htm

"Pas de répit pour les vagues presque mensuelles d'images autour de Medieval II : Total War. C'est bien l'offre multijoueur qui a été l'objet des plus grandes attentions des développeurs, prenant appui sur les critiques formulées par les joueurs à la sortie de Rome : Total War. Une extension serait déjà prévue dans les locaux de Creative Assembly, et devrait porter sur le continent américain et les guerres aztèques. Pour l'instant, concentrons-nous sur cet opus général qui sortira pour Noël."

Translation:

No respite for the almost monthly waves of images around Medieval II: Total War. It is well the multijouor offer which was the object of the greatest attentions of the developers, fascinating support on criticisms formulated by the players at the exit of Rome: War Total. An extension would be already envisaged in the buildings of Creative Assembly, and should relate to the American continent and the Aztec wars. For the moment, we concentrate on this opus general which will leave for Christmas.

[Callahan9119]

it would prolly sell more games, yet ruin the franchise, example final fantasy

america has nothing to offer with this engine or this AI, TW will never be civ, warcraft or any other consumer juggernaut, be inventive, not predictable...revisit shogun now, and put a stake in it, then move on and get brilliant...the easy mode is making a half assed expansion for americas and not having the tools to do it right, nothing from the campaign map, battle engine or AI to put to life the complex nature of the american adventure

my god, you could make a damn interesting game from the conflicts of the east, china and asia in general was very crazy place, and perfect for a game of war :yes:

i would love a game of various native american tribes, with any euros being only an event, and the game focusing on the tribes and the focus on diplomacy between native people and repelling the invaders as an expansion though...that would solve alot of problems with not making the game a france vs england approach to war, so less of a gunpowder dynamic

change merchants to a hunting party to profit from areas with buffalo etc, but maybe add them to an army...and they can collect while grouped with the army...doubt this can be done easily...but a fight over recources would be more fun than the standard land grab

recources, diplomacy and the fight vs the white man, that i could dig

[Lusted]

I seriously doubt we would see Japan in an EXPANSION, given the fact the game is Medieval II Total War. Im hoping we might see a revisited, expanded Shogun 2 (including China, Korea, Mongols) for the next TW game though.

[The Foolish Horseman]

shogun 2 wud be good, probs the best seller

[Lorenzo_H]

Not everybody likes Samurais and stuff like that I'm afraid. I personally find it a period of history to be a bit distastful - I much prefer European and gunpowder era content. Which is why I am of the opinion that Napoleonic Total War or similar should definitly be the next game in the series.

[Orda Khan]

Muskets, lancers and cannons? Not my cup of tea and a completely different format IMO.
A campaign centred around ancient Chinese regions would offer a great setting

.......Orda

[llewellyn]

what about a greek expansion game, set before rome. that could be cool cus it would be indivivual city states then foreign empires colidding. it could make for some fairly intense play

[JCoyote]

I'd like to see China.

I wonder if the new expansion is going to be a bit more of speculative history? A What If game involving the americas?

It might not be a bad formula... core game is fundamental history, expansion is speculative/alternate history... like for example, making a Civil War game, then making an expansion that's Harry Turtledove's How Few Remain/Great War. I wouldn't want to see that as a primary game, but it feels like good fodder for expansion.

Other than that, I'd really like to see something using China. Something that covers China, Korea, Japan, and southeast Asia could be a blast and cover a lot of time.

[IRPhydeaux]

I gotta call for a fantasy version. How many of the Mods on here revolve around some kind of fantasy series. I'm just thinking a generic tolkienesque world populated with a variety of fantastic units.

Aiming for strategy and battlefield tactics rather than story or action. Might be a big seller.

[Lorenzo_H]

Muskets, lancers and cannons? Not my cup of tea and a completely different format IMO.
A campaign centred around ancient Chinese regions would offer a great setting

.......Orda
I think that if anything M2TW shows us its potential with muskets and cannons.

[JCoyote]

There are plenty of sword and sorcery games. I don't want to see that. There are TONS of them out there, it's a glutted market. Just like WW2 games.

I want to see history, with arguable comparisons of real or probable things. Not how yet another D&D'er thinks make believe elves should compare against make believe dwarves.

It's cool to have some games based on reality. I'm not interested in seeing airstrikes by broom riding harry potter kids or people arguing about how long it would take for a dragon to spit fire "in real life".

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think the next game will be ROME 2, or something similar. Greece Total War, maybe.

Japannese era warfare is a small market in reality. Europe allows a very large percentage of your consumers to "play their ancestors" and this includes America. Japan offers that for a much small customer base, as such we are unlikely to see a new Shogan.

If anything the next game will be broader in scope, not narrower.

[Marquis of Roland]

I think that if they were going to make a game based on muskets and cannon, they need to do Europe about 1600-1800, not exclusively America. A european campaign of that time period can include Americas, while an Americas-based campaign cannot include Europe. Plus if an Americas-based campaign was made, it will be hard to include a good tech tree and buildings (I mean, you go from smooth-bore muskets to rifled muskets and you're pretty much done right). A Europe-based campaign from 1600-1800 should give plenty of upgrade opportunities.

Anyhow, I think that a medieval Asia period came would fit perfectly with MTW2. It basically includes pretty much every kind of unit already in MTW2 right now anyway. And you can just about use the same time period as well. I would love to see the buildings in such a game. And as an expansion pack, you don't need to have as broad a scope as you would the original product, since people who've already purchased MTW2 and like the game would probably buy the expansion pack anyway.

[LordKhaine]

The Napoleonic era or Shogun 2... those strike me as the obvious two. And I'd be very happy with either. Beyond the Napoleonic era the engine really wouldn't work. I suppose there are many other potential time periods to pick, but many of them wouldn't pack the same punch as the two I listed.

As for the expansion.. willing to bet it's called *something* Invasion. Spanish Invasion?

[Derfasciti]

As an ardent Napoleon fan, I like the idea of a Napoleonic TW. However, I too like the idea of a new Shogun. Great fun. My problem with MTWs is realism.- Was it possible to have a medieval country take over any other large ones, let alone all of Europe? I doubt it. While I still like the game I do find it difficult to bear for realism and RP reasons.

[Musashi]

Shogun's been done. They should do a Romance of the Three Kingdoms Total War ;)

[Forward Observer]

For some strange reason I have the nagging suspicion that the current Central American conquest section of the game might have originally been a planned expansion, but it eventually got tagged on the the initial release to give the game a bit more content.

That's why I am a bit skeptical about the Americas being the expansion, but I could be totally off base here.

While I agree that Shogun is more suited to a winner take all type of game, I just wonder if a remake would have the market appeal that execs at CA and Sega would need to invest the time and money in development.

Also they have already developed quite a bit of the physics needed for muzzle loading arms and artillery. This would have limited usefulness in a new Shogun game.

Doing a NapoleonicTW might not be that easy though--The massive sizes and varieties of the armies involved in the large battles of the era would be pretty daunting to replicate and morph into a enjoyable and easily playable game for the masses.

Just think of all the variety of uniforms and equipment that would have to be modeled, but wouldn't they be oh so pretty to see in action.

Cheers

[Ignoramus]

One on Ancient Greece or even earlier would certainly be interesting and enjoyable. However, it is almost certain that the next Total War game will be on Napoleon

[rosscoliosis]

I have no idea why they haven't simply expanded the campaign map to the east yet. So perhaps historically China was never conquered by a European nation. But there a billion things you can do in the Total War games that never happened, and that's OFFICIALLY one of the big draws of the game! Why the heck not let us at it?! :(
Keep expanding that map, let us conquer THE GLOBE. Haha ;-)
'Course then the campaign map would have to wrap-around somehow, but I can't imagine that'd be too hard to accomplish.

[JCoyote]

Keep expanding that map, let us conquer THE GLOBE. Haha ;-)
'Course then the campaign map would have to wrap-around somehow, but I can't imagine that'd be too hard to accomplish.

I dont think it'd be hard from a technical standpoint, but it might be a bit difficult to get the interface convenient enough.

And in all honesty, for fighting in the Colonial/Napoleonic etc era, I think the whole world is almost a necessity... wars did stretch around the world then. But the key to making it work would be having victory conditions OTHER than controlling everything there is.

[ChaosLord]

They probably haven't expanded it because of the problems the AI has even waging wars on their neighbors, much less a power far away. Check out some of the expanded maps for RTW, you'll see some regions stay rebel the entire game because the AI just doesn't have any real idea what its doing. But as for the next TW or expansion I too would love one based on China on Japan. Another interesting way to go might be one set earlier during the Muslim invasions/expansions/conversions. Of course that might bug all the people who never want to see a game not centered on Europeans.

[Lorenzo_H]

There are plenty of sword and sorcery games. I don't want to see that. There are TONS of them out there, it's a glutted market. Just like WW2 games.

I want to see history, with arguable comparisons of real or probable things. Not how yet another D&D'er thinks make believe elves should compare against make believe dwarves.

It's cool to have some games based on reality. I'm not interested in seeing airstrikes by broom riding harry potter kids or people arguing about how long it would take for a dragon to spit fire "in real life".
200% agreed.

[diotavelli]

Everyone seems to have missed the obvious area for an expansions - India and the East Indies.

The Portugese, Spanish, Dutch and English all competed heavily to get control and/or trade there. In different circumstances, the French and Germans might have done. The Venetians and Genoans were no mean sailors, so it's not impossible that they might have tried.

The regions themselves were fascinating at this point. India was largely Hindu but (I think) the Sikhs arose around this time and Buddhism was still present in areas. There was massive ethic diversity to go with the cultural diversity. The country was phenomenally rich in resources but difficult for an invader to subdue. And then the Mughals arrived - an exceptionally strong Muslim offshoot of the Mongols, who conquered all of Northern India (pretty much) and dominated much of the rest of it.

The islands further East were resource rich and even more difficult to control, with an ethnic, cultural and religious mix that made India look straightforward.

And, from CA's point of view, it shouldn't be overlooked that the region today contains around 2 billion people, a large number of whom are increasingly technically literate....

[Tsar Simeon]

Bulgaria!!!!!!!! WE NEED BULGARIA IN! There is only 2 orthodox factions as of now, i think its time for 2 more. Bulgaria and Serbia!

[ASPER THE GREAT]

The expansion will most likely be "America" it is already set up Mayan's, Aztecs, Incas "South/Central America". The game engine is the same indians have club, spear, jav/bow, knife (melee weapons) against the Europeans sword, lance, spear/bill, and the introduction of the :charge: "horse", gun powder units are the same hand cannon, abq, musk... Nothing changes for the battles. "Agent's" Priest can convert 100%, Spy's homeboy just don't fit in :laugh4: recruit local boy, Diplomat/Merch trade 100%, Ass not much use :thinking:. North America is a different kind of monster :juggle: if they stay in the island's, Florida, Geo, Carolina, o.k. but as soon as we move up the coast to Virg, NY, Canada way, that takes huge map, ton's of different tribes Eng, Fran, Spain, Port, all fighting each other plus the indians for control of the "NEW WORLD". Stay with me guys :pleased: !!!! If the developers stay within South/Central America & Islands/Florida area no biggie that is the expansion short, same game a few tweaks and yes we will all buy and play. In turn that will open up the new game "Napoleon TW" first, then the French & Indian Wars/American Revolution. That will give the developers plenty of time to work on all the new aspects of "Total War" 16??-18??. :2thumbsup: Thanks for listening to my :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: I figured that was 10 cents worth ~:cheers: .

[FrantzITA]

i think that the expansion of the Zuskanian's tribes in middle pohonistria should be the next Total War :wall:

[Ja'chyra]

Lol, who'd have thought everyone would disagree.

My opinion is that an expansion should concentrate on improving what we have now, better diplomacy and sea battles.

The next game is a different matter though, I don't like the gunpowder era's myself but I would prefer that over the America's I doubt I would even buy it.

[IrishArmenian]

Not everybody likes Samurais and stuff like that I'm afraid. I personally find it a period of history to be a bit distastful - I much prefer European and gunpowder era content. Which is why I am of the opinion that Napoleonic Total War or similar should definitly be the next game in the series.
The Daimo used gunpowder, and quite a lot of it! The only reason Nobunaga defeated the Takeda was an Agincourt-esque (In the sense that the ranged fighters defeated the fearless and fearsome calvary)
I would like to see Shogun II as opposed to merely an expansion. I was also looking forward to a VI, but maybe they will do that later, as in Rome they went Rome, BI (Later in History) and then Alexander (Earlier).

[Callahan9119]

Not everybody likes Samurais and stuff like that I'm afraid. I personally find it a period of history to be a bit distastful - I much prefer European and gunpowder era content. Which is why I am of the opinion that Napoleonic Total War or similar should definitly be the next game in the series.


japan got gunpowder homey, and the "medieval" time was the same time as the greatest part of japanese war history 1000 to 1600ish :beam: and for the most part was constant conflict between various provinces and whoever the emperor or rulers viewed as enemies at the time...shame most people just think of the "warring states" period when thinking of japan

effective gunpowder spread fast to most parts of the world in about the same time period

napoleanic war would be cool, but do you honestly think they could handle this with the current engine or AI?

[Moah]

napoleanic war would be cool, but do you honestly think they could handle this with the current engine or AI?

:yes:

Absolutely. Napoleonic tactic was line up your troops 3 ranks deep with nice brightly coloured shirts and shoot. That's it.

Your infantry shoot in massed ranks, your cavalry charge. The AI can handle that :dizzy2:


That's why the yanks won the war of independence - hiding and shooting from cover was considered cheating. If they'd fought like men we'd have had them :yes:


(Oi! You! Yes you thinking of writing a snotty thirteen page reply about the complicated tactics of the Iron Duke - forget it. It's tongue in cheek...)

[Frankmuddy]

I'm holding out for 'History: Total War'. You start in 10,000 BC with a sharp stick, and over the course of thirteen thousand turns you work your way up to main battle tanks, nuclear weapons, and directed energy guns.

[Bijo]

Heh, Japan would be a great setting for an expansion. What would be nice is that they'd, indeed, expand the map to the East. Ah, Japan, China, etc. :beam:

If it's true that the expansion's gonna be about the Americas, then-- mehh, I won't get it.

[Noir]

I dislike the idea of an Asia TW, it's half fictional and aims at pleasing all those that "can't play with 10 unit types" and "one civilisation" which shouldn't be a problem if playing like so accounts for good gameplay with immersive details and atmophere as was the case with STW.

As for revisiting Sengoku i doubt that we will see it in an expansion or a proper release and judging from the new releases it's for the best.

[Lord Fluffy]

I like Diotaveli's East Indies idea. Never been done before and lots of diversity there.

[Snoil The Mighty]

I'd like to see something I've tentatively named Caveman:Totalwar as a release at some point. Go all the way back to a point where on turn 1 of the game the event that triggers it all is "A group of hunters got the idea to settle down and grow grain on the same spot every year". You start off with your only recruitable unit being 'rabble' (club armed thugs basically-oh yeah!) and carry on from there up to maybe around 1000 BC. Lots of nifty events like introducing the concept of organized soldiers, slings and bows for war not hunting, domesticating the horse (amongst other critters), the wheel, Sumerian clock and calendar for better agriculture, Beer (had to throw that in! LOL), creation of primitive armors and first massed spear tactics, etc


Personal opion but I'd like to see it done :beam:

[ChaosLord]

There is more to Asia then China excetchzbe1, depending on the the time period. Lots of history you could use for a TW game, biggest among which would probably be the Romance of the Three Kingdoms era. Probably set it in the Yellow Turban rebellion leading up tot he founding of the three kingdoms. As for unit types why would Asia have less? You have the base types just like Europe, then the specializations and unique types depending apon region.

As for half-fictional I don't see why you'd say that, I mean asian countries conquered as large of empires as Europeans throughout their history. Anyway, just thought i'd respond since it bugs me when people think an Asia centered game would be like three units and a couple civs slugging it out. Read up on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms era, you'll see its a perfect setting.

[JCoyote]

I agree, China has plenty of complexity all its own. It's not some single nation or culture either, its a group of related and competing ones. In a lot of ways, under some emperors China was more like western europe unde the pope.

There really should be eras for it, and faction spawns, but thats something a lot of us want anyway. And China also had a Mongol invasion...

Africa and pre-Columbian America just didn't have enough powerful factions that were contemporaries of each other.

There are plenty of great unit types available for an Asia TW. Everything from Shogun, everything from the Mongol hordes, China's somewhat different soldiers in various factions... a unit full of guys carrying baskets full of rockets could fun! You could even stretch it to India... and that brings a whole slew of new religions and types of soldiers. Just because no one took over the whole region... oh wait, nobody did in Europe either.

Asia TW would be awesome. Heck, have the earliest era be 1000 AD and have a full world map and throw everything in from M2TW too! It could literally be impossible to conquer the whole world. But that doesn't have to be the point of the game either... But even that could be feasible if a more involved vassal system was created.

What if technological development was done differently? What if instead nations invested money to improve the random chance of developing an ability (and getting it FIRST)? The odds could be balanced out so that most developments would happen within a decade or two of the actual historical occurrence. But if someone went and threw an insane amount of money at something... you might see deep sea vessels sooner or cannons earlier. Might be tough. You would want a model for technological propagation between factions... alliances, trading, battlefied encounters, etc and how they alter the odds of picking up a trick from another faction.

[Noir]

Originally posted by Chaos Lord

There is more to Asia then China excetchzbe1, depending on the the time period. Lots of history you could use for a TW game, biggest among which would probably be the Romance of the Three Kingdoms era. Probably set it in the Yellow Turban rebellion leading up tot he founding of the three kingdoms. As for unit types why would Asia have less? You have the base types just like Europe, then the specializations and unique types depending apon region.

As for half-fictional I don't see why you'd say that, I mean asian countries conquered as large of empires as Europeans throughout their history. Anyway, just thought i'd respond since it bugs me when people think an Asia centered game would be like three units and a couple civs slugging it out. Read up on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms era, you'll see its a perfect setting.

I never said that Asia is a bad setting. I agree with you that its history offers plenty of opporunity including Thailand, Vietnam and India. The three kingdoms is another classic setting used countless times (like in kohei games). The wars with the Mongols and the Mongols themselves, of course.

I am all for these options.

What i dislike is the idea of mixing all this together that is often proposed as a counter argument instead of a Sengoku Jidai centred campaign . The "10" unit types refers to this as well.

I am for anything in a historical context as you suggest. I am against though a fictional mish mash that sets Samurai against war elephants just because "10 unit types (of Sengoku) suck".

I apologise for being vague.
:bow:

[Carl]

I am against though a fictional mish mash that sets Samurai against war elephants just because "10 unit types (of Sengoku) suck".

I'm sorry, but I don't get you, how is this any diffrant than Longbow era england fighting the moors, or Denmark fighting Scicily, or a dozen other M2TW scenarios that never happened and never could have happened in real history due to geography constraints.

[Noir]

My approach on this is that these scenarios should be way less possible than they are or impossible at best. I always disliked the fact that after STW, the games concentrated in a mish mash of units and civilisations whether they could on the other hand stay focus in certain periods/settings that avoid this, like for example the crusades, the 100 years war and the Reconquista.

In my campaigns in MTW i play with homelands and GA that severely limit the possibility of conflicts like the one you describe. These are my preferences though and they dont have to be anyone else's. I post this as my own point of view - not meant to be imposing on anyone.

Also note that i don't play M2 (tried it at a friend's and didn't like it enough to buy it or spend more time with it) - so don't mind me that much.

[Lord Condormanius]

[QUOTE=Marquis of Roland]A european campaign of that time period can include Americas, while an Americas-based campaign cannot include Europe. QUOTE]

I don't see how an American campaign from that period can exist without Europe.

[ChaosLord]

Oh I see what you meant now excetczebe1, the bizzare ahistorical units and setups you can engage in with them can be annoying. But its practically one of CA's trademarks now after RTW and M2TW. Best thing to do is to try to ignore them or treat them as wandering mercs in the enemies army. Of course, sometimes that can be hard to do if its a whole faction like Egypt in RTW though.

[Noir]

This is why i concluded that you better dont mind me - i am just not interested in CA's new policies at all...

[LordKhaine]

Oh I see what you meant now excetczebe1, the bizzare ahistorical units and setups you can engage in with them can be annoying. But its practically one of CA's trademarks now after RTW and M2TW.

Please, MTW1 and STW had their own share of fictional units. It's *always* been CA's "trademark" to mix realism with a touch of fantasy to liven things up a bit.

I really need to find me a pair of those rose tinted glasses everyone seems to have...

[Noir]

Originally posted by LordKhaine

Please, MTW1 and STW had their own share of fictional units. It's *always* been CA's "trademark" to mix realism with a touch of fantasy to liven things up a bit.

That was not the case in the original STW. The fantasy units were introduce for the WE/MI release. As for MTW, its true that it had the usual cheese but nowhere near to what RTW introduced.

In addition there had been several mods for MTW/VI that fix this and introduce more realistic rosters much like for RTW.

[taichiman]

CA developer interested in Shogun as the next TW game should check out the Samurai Invasion by Stephen Turnbull, Imjin War by Samuel Hawley and The Immortal Yi Soon-Shin (English sub) all available in amazon.com.

Not only do these books and dramas covered the actual warfare among Hideyoshi's samurai with Korea and China in detail but also, in this war, one of the critical area was the naval warfare -something that CA has completely overlooked in the past and should not overlook no longer.

IMHO, the Imjin War was the perfect backdrop, on the Japan side you have Hideyoshi with his ashigaru musketeers, on Korea (Chosun) side you have the guerrillas, warrior monks and of course, the Immortal Yi Soon-Shin and his awesome turtle ship and then there was the Ming Chinese whose human wave was one of the deciding factor of the war.

To stretch the history a little as to enhance the game play, we could even add the following elements into the game: there was the Mongol Manchurian horde led by the charismatic Nurhaci; the zealous Catholics from the land of Conquistadors who wanted to do to Japan and China what their peers had done to the Aztecs and the Incas...

I guess I should open a new thread to discuss my idea.

[pdoan8]

For the next TW game, I'd like Asia:TW. Starting from around the birth of the Yuan Dynasty (from Temujin uniting the Mongolian tribes to become Khan, then conquer Jin, Song, Hsia,...). Expand West to see MTW. Expand East to see STW. Expand South for a totally new experience.

As for the M2TW expack, I would prefer expanding East rather than the New World.

[PseRamesses]

Since the TW game has a non-existant dipolomacy feature the Shogun era makes a perfect total war game. There´s a strong feeling amongst gamers that this era should be revisited. Have a look here and vote:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77631

[Lorenzo_H]

japan got gunpowder homey, and the "medieval" time was the same time as the greatest part of japanese war history 1000 to 1600ish :beam: and for the most part was constant conflict between various provinces and whoever the emperor or rulers viewed as enemies at the time...shame most people just think of the "warring states" period when thinking of japan

effective gunpowder spread fast to most parts of the world in about the same time period

napoleanic war would be cool, but do you honestly think they could handle this with the current engine or AI?

The Daimo used gunpowder, and quite a lot of it! The only reason Nobunaga defeated the Takeda was an Agincourt-esque (In the sense that the ranged fighters defeated the fearless and fearsome calvary)
I would like to see Shogun II as opposed to merely an expansion. I was also looking forward to a VI, but maybe they will do that later, as in Rome they went Rome, BI (Later in History) and then Alexander (Earlier).

Gentlemen, I am quite aware that the Japanese acquired gunpowder from the Portuguese. However I maintain my opinion which you don't have to agree with, which is that I dislike the whole "Shogun" theme very much.
"Takeda, Daimo, Nobunaga"...you see I don't like this old Japanese war culture. I know too many people obsessed with all the Japanese clans and it makes me feel sick to the core. If CA decide to turn again to Shogun then very well and happy playing to all those who like it. I shall abstain.

@sabutai, yes I do think the current engine could handle it; why ever should even the Medieval 2 engine not be able to??? I think some things needing tweaking is less of a focus on sieges and focus more on open battle, and also the addition of Trafalgar style naval battles directly commandable by the player.

Medieval 2 also shows us how good TW is at handling gunpowder weapons. The Total War series itself begs for a Napoleonic type game.

[KHPike]

I have no idea why they haven't simply expanded the campaign map to the east yet. So perhaps historically China was never conquered by a European nation. But there a billion things you can do in the Total War games that never happened, and that's OFFICIALLY one of the big draws of the game! Why the heck not let us at it?! :(
Keep expanding that map, let us conquer THE GLOBE. Haha ;-)
'Course then the campaign map would have to wrap-around somehow, but I can't imagine that'd be too hard to accomplish.

If there is a China: Total War it can be set in the Warring States Period from 5th BC to 221BC when it was unified under one Emperor. At this point China was split into 10+ kingdoms at constant war with each other. China would make an excellent setting.

However, only 10 factions isn't enough for a Total War game, and that may be the reason why they haven't developed one yet. Then you could include the surrounding nomadic tribes and Korea and Japan, provided they existed during that period.

Additionally, there's no big invasion to look out for ie. No Mongol-like Invasion.

On top of that the western side of the map would be landlocked, with naval battles mainly in the east where the sea is only.

I would love to see a China Total War though.

[Callahan9119]

That was not the case in the original STW. The fantasy units were introduce for the WE/MI release. As for MTW, its true that it had the usual cheese but nowhere near to what RTW introduced.

In addition there had been several mods for MTW/VI that fix this and introduce more realistic rosters much like for RTW.

hmm i found the units of "warrior monks" kinda cheese, i forget if kensei were in the original release

[pike master]

wat about martian assault total war :)

[Callahan9119]

thats fine, just as long is it isnt more europe or america :book:

my vote is still with japan :yes: god i loved shogun, but when i go to play it now its just so dated and the diplomacy makes rtw seem like it was made by the united nations, your lucky if any alliance lasts 2 turns...i guess you could argue that alliances changed daily in that period, i still remember my first game of shogun, mori's broke alliance 2 turns after i made the pact...my adviser calling them worthless dogs only fueled my anger :beam:

one of those memories that stick with you :balloon2:

[Lorenzo_H]

thats fine, just as long is it isnt more america :book:



:thinking: We haven't had any Total War games with any America in them yet. (well, M2TW has a little bit of Aztecs - but that hardly counts)

[Callahan9119]

ahhh but you purposely excluded me saying europe...a classic example of a statement being taken out of context :thumbsdown:

if you wanna do america, fine; but it couldnt be done in an expansion, its far too complex a situation, and frankly cant be done with the "total war" style gameplay, ca would need to reinvent the franchise to make a game thats even halfway decent.

whats the angle? 3 european powers on the americas to fight it out against each other and those poor hapless indians, standing around much like rebels waiting to have a "province" taken?

i think your banking too much on the creativity of the creative assembly to ever have this come to fruition, other than a shameless title to sell units :no:

even a napoleanic expansion would be rather bland in my opinion, and too easy.

yet i think most are correct, it will be either a napoleanic or american expansion, it simply makes sense from the view of getting units sold

[Marquis of Roland]

I don't see how an American campaign from that period can exist without Europe.

What I am trying to say is, if you made a campaign for the Americas, there will be so many factors linked back to Europe that it'd be very difficult to base the better part of the game on the Americas rather than Europe. Hence, what I said in my earlier post. It'd also be very difficult to come up with decent faction selection with an Americas-based campaign. You practically can't pick any European faction to be a faction in the game because almost all of their source of production and military is coming from Europe, so it'd be just easier (and more fun IMO) if you included America in a European-based campaign instead of the other way around.

You will be hard-pressed to find anyone that would like to see Romance of the Three Kingdoms: Total War more than I do (my favorite book). However, as far as what CA or sega would do, they probably won't make it because a later setting for Asia (pretty much around the same time frame for MTW2) can include more countries/factions, unit types, etc. For example, at the time of the Three Kingdoms period, Japan was nothing more than a scattered collection of primitive tribes. I know one thing for sure though: if Sega does decide to make a Three Kingdoms: Total War, it WILL sell like hotcakes in EVERY Asian country, and the number of people with computers in China alone now outnumbers the entire population of the United States.

As far as unit selection I think a Asia:TW may have more units than MTW2.

[Mailman653]

I hope CA does not take a page out of EA's book and decide to go with a TW:2163 game or something like that.

[Callahan9119]

What I am trying to say is, if you made a campaign for the Americas, there will be so many factors linked back to Europe that it'd be very difficult to base the better part of the game on the Americas rather than Europe. Hence, what I said in my earlier post. It'd also be very difficult to come up with decent faction selection with an Americas-based campaign. You practically can't pick any European faction to be a faction in the game because almost all of their source of production and military is coming from Europe, so it'd be just easier (and more fun IMO) if you included America in a European-based campaign instead of the other way around.

You will be hard-pressed to find anyone that would like to see Romance of the Three Kingdoms: Total War more than I do (my favorite book). However, as far as what CA or sega would do, they probably won't make it because a later setting for Asia (pretty much around the same time frame for MTW2) can include more countries/factions, unit types, etc. For example, at the time of the Three Kingdoms period, Japan was nothing more than a scattered collection of primitive tribes. I know one thing for sure though: if Sega does decide to make a Three Kingdoms: Total War, it WILL sell like hotcakes in EVERY Asian country, and the number of people with computers in China alone now outnumbers the entire population of the United States.

As far as unit selection I think a Asia:TW may have more units than MTW2.

japan was powerful, not a bunch of rabble, otherwise china would have conquered it. its early wars were no different that the wars of europe, just on a smaller piece of land, and as i'm sure you know, they eventually had influence far beyond the island of japan

asia is far more interesting, and has been barely explored by the franchise than the same old europe map

[KHPike]

I hope CA does not take a page out of EA's book and decide to go with a TW:2163 game or something like that.

The concept would be nice. However, the style of modern warfare would change gameplay drastically since men do not clump together to form a packed battle line or else they'd be gunned down quickly. Plus there's a whole other set of complicated factors to consider that perhaps can't be put into the total war series.

However, I think the Napoleonic mods were a good foray into the concept of pre-modern warfare.

[Yoshitsune]

Would love to see Japan revisited especially if it started in, say, the 10th Century with the Revolt of Taira Masakado and included China and Korea for the Yuan Mongol invasions of the 13th Century...

There's also a poll on the "official" board:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm24.showMessage?topicID=1133.topic

[Noir]

Originally posted by sabutai

hmm i found the units of "warrior monks" kinda cheese, i forget if kensei were in the original release

Well, regardless of what you find, they are perfectly historical. Various Buddhist Sects were having significant power (ceded to them centuries before by the Emperor himself) and were imposing taxes in any merchantise passing whithin the territories under their control. Their monasteries were places of intense cultural, martial and commercial activity. Their outfits and weapons are also historically correct as CA was very well aware of Stephen Turnbull's work and based them on illustrations in his books. Oda Nobunaga purged them brutally as he forsaw that control was impossible with them on the way. They were acting as "mercenaries" to the aid of those clans that were helping them with further their interests and sphere of control, which justifies the discount the Mori clan has for recruiting them.

The fantasy units were the battlefield ninja and the kansai and they were both introduced in the STW/MI together with the Naginata cavalry, that can be said to be whithin the sphere of reason as a unit. All units stats were altered breaking the original RPS of Shogun and making the guns overpowered.

[Marquis of Roland]

japan was powerful, not a bunch of rabble, otherwise china would have conquered it. its early wars were no different that the wars of europe, just on a smaller piece of land, and as i'm sure you know, they eventually had influence far beyond the island of japan

asia is far more interesting, and has been barely explored by the franchise than the same old europe map

The Japanese during the Yayoi period (the same time period as the three kingdoms period in China) did pay tribute to China. China traditionally doesn't conquer other countries, they just make them pay tribute. The Yayoi period Japanese had some bronze working, and some basic iron tech from China at the time. So pretty much no samurai or whatnot, that came a couple hundred years later. China sent a delegation to the Japanese islands at the time of the Three Kingdoms period and they brought back a report on the various individual tribes they encountered (so Japan lacked a central government at the time, most governing bodies were on the tribal level). This report is part of the San Guo Zhi history of the Three Kingdoms period. Now if China wasn't consumed by the infighting of the Three Kingdoms period at the time, and had they REALLY wanted to conquer Japan, they probably could've done so rather easily.

I believe the period of Japanese military history you're referring to came much, much later, when Japanese culture had developed into the feudal system (about 12th century or so, so about 1000 years later than the period I was referring to).

[Barry Fitzgerald]

I really dont fancy Japan on this one...

BUt I would be happy to see the game developed a lot more...so I could bear whatever they threw at me...in that respect.

[Fookison]

Bring on the sea battles. I am not a fan of the auto-resolve. I also like the idea of the Napoleonic era. It would be good to just carry on into the next time period where M2TW finishes. That way we could go from the Roman times (RTW/BI) all the way up to and maybe even into WW1. There are many games beyond that period so it would be good to stop at that point. Also, yes to a Shogun remake with the new engine. Would be cool!!!:yes:

[Lorenzo_H]

ahhh but you purposely excluded me saying europe...a classic example of a statement being taken out of context :thumbsdown:

if you wanna do america, fine; but it couldnt be done in an expansion, its far too complex a situation, and frankly cant be done with the "total war" style gameplay, ca would need to reinvent the franchise to make a game thats even halfway decent.

whats the angle? 3 european powers on the americas to fight it out against each other and those poor hapless indians, standing around much like rebels waiting to have a "province" taken?

i think your banking too much on the creativity of the creative assembly to ever have this come to fruition, other than a shameless title to sell units :no:

even a napoleanic expansion would be rather bland in my opinion, and too easy.

yet i think most are correct, it will be either a napoleanic or american expansion, it simply makes sense from the view of getting units sold
I ought to be ashamed for taking your statement out of context.

I don't think the expansion will be Napoleon, I think the expansion will be the colonization of America (or maybe the Rennaisance?) and then the next game Napoleon.

[JCoyote]

Here's the deal though... after the middle ages, with the discovery of america and the age of exploration, the conflict between european nations became global in scale. Total War doesn't just model the fights, it models the economic production as well. You can't really have "just america" or "just Napoleon in europe" under the current TW concept. At this point, battles and economic activity were literally spread around the world.

Creating a "more focused" TW could eliminate most of the important things the campaign map is used for... economics would almost have to be thrown out the door to accommodate any european nation in the colonial age in just one section of the world. In TW we are used to managing entire nations... giving us anything less would be lame.

So really, any post-middle ages TW needs to involve almost the whole globe.

[Lorenzo_H]

JCoyote, that pretty much echoes what I was (trying to) saying.

The expansion should be post middle ages, say, Rennaissance to Imperial age.

[Randarkmaan]

Shogun 2 or Asia Total War would be much better as the next game in the franchise, I feel. For an expansion I think something like... Arab Invasion set after Mohammed's death when the Muslims conquer their Empire and beat the Romans and the Persians in a number of interesting battles which would make for interesting historical battles. Also it fits CA's habit of naming every expansion (except Alexander as of now) the same thing; "Something Invasion"

[diotavelli]

Shogun 2 or Asia Total War would be much better as the next game in the franchise, I feel. For an expansion I think something like... Arab Invasion set after Mohammed's death when the Muslims conquer their Empire and beat the Romans and the Persians in a number of interesting battles which would make for interesting historical battles. Also it fits CA's habit of naming every expansion (except Alexander as of now) the same thing; "Something Invasion"

Randarkmaan, I can see where you're coming from and don't think it's a bad idea but I can't see CA and Sega putting there names anywhere near a product entitled "Arab Invasion" in the current political climate. Anything suggestive of violent aggression by Arabs (without an immediate and clear counter of the same by others) would be very, very bad PR.

That's why I go back to my idea of an expansion from the Europe of M2TW East to India and the Indies, rather than West to the Americas. "M2TW: The Indies" would show the competing European powers struggling for supremacy on the sub-continent and nearby islands against strong and powerful native forces.

This would be a game with real historical context and would be a genuine expansion from the existing game. I agree that China and Japan, whilst undoubtedly interesting in this period, don't fit the bill, as they had very, very little contact with Europe. Better to save them for a full game in their own right, rather than try to cobble them onto this one.

[Randarkmaan]

I think it's silly that we expect that Arabs will automatically kill CA if they make a game like that. I mean aren't the Arabs proud of the fact that they managed to conquer the Persian Empire (Sassanid) and trounce the Romans in a number of battles? There wouldn't really be anything "blasphemous" since Mohammed is dead and therefore won't appear.
Though I guess what you fear is that this will be interpreted by Arabs as a case against them because they gained their empire mostly by conquest and therefore are likely to see themselves labelled as war-hungry. In most cases people they conquered weren't exactly bereft of their freedom, they were just transferred from one empire to another.

[pike master]

@diotevelli

true dat

what about elephant invasion ;)

[diotavelli]

I think it's silly that we expect that Arabs will automatically kill CA if they make a game like that.

I wasn't suggesting that anyone would kill anyone else, simply that it would be very bad from a PR point-of-view. How many of the Muslims who burned "The Satanic Verses" had read them or truly knew what they were about? Very few, from what interviews at the time and subsequently have suggested. It was enough that someone they trusted told them that the book was an attack on Islam. Why would "Arab Invasion" be any different? There would be a reasonable chance of an outcry across the Arab world, followed by politicians wading in to bemoan the insensitivity of Sega and CA: a PR distaster.



I mean aren't the Arabs proud of the fact that they managed to conquer the Persian Empire (Sassanid) and trounce the Romans in a number of battles?

Well, perhaps some are; the Osama bin Ladens of this world clearly are. A lot of others would probably prefer not to have historical differences between Christian West and Muslim Middle East dragged up when there's so much current tension. As you rightly suggest, at a time when many Arabs feel the Western media unfairly represent them as being aggressive and bloodthirsty, there might be more subtle ways to raise the issue.

[Randarkmaan]

Right there about the PR. Still it is sad, as it is a very important event and would be really fun to play out in battles in MTWII, though I guess it could always be modded.

[Saulot]

I would be happy to see Shogun 2 or another Asia related setting for the next Total War game, but think that the expansion for Medieval 2 should be thematically connected to Medieval Europe in some way or other. I would also like to see a setting based on the ancient Middle East, in a period earlier than Rome.

[PureMassacre]

Mormon Invasion?

[Jekermesh]

I just posted a reply to a thread that is pretty much the same, but hasn't been touched for a while I thought it pertinent to post here aswell. I think essentially we need to remember that any expansion has to be connected to the original era, just look at Rome and BI and Alexander or MTW and VI. We possibly need to think about a similar era put perhaps looking East, West or South. My personal choice, and this is where i repeat my self is as follows.

I think CA should expand eastwards, and i will probably echo many postees sentiments so apologies. If we take the middle east as the furthest point in the map west wards you could expand eastwards all the way to china and India, encompassing many new cultures, religions, architecture and unit types etc... We could see the emergence of Chinggis Khan or Tamerlaine. We could see a more in depth look at the situation in the middle-east circa 11/12th centuries with the break up of the Seljuks. The expansion could lead all the way up to the emergence of the Mughals, and possibly have 'events' such as European powers making trade agreements with Indian princes, monarchs etc. there would be a host of amazing cities to conquer/trade with Agra, Delhi, Samarkand, Tabriz, Isfahan, Kabul. I think this period has the characters, history, and depth to create a perfect expansion pack, and as i said in a previous post, to marry the previous TW titles together.

Any thoughts.....

[Chosun]

I had a brief go with EUIII and the learning curve was too stiff. I mainly was interested in playing as Korea. I wish they allowed the use of the "turtle boats" cause they were awesome. Kind of like half boat, half submarine. I personally wouldn't mind and expansion to the Far East.

[SFC Tako]

I think it'd be great fun to have a Shogun2, preferably in the 100 years war period (sengouko jidai, right?). Since I can't play the original Shogun on my computer (CTD) I'd go real crazy if I got a new Samurai game in my lap!!!

I wouldn't mind playing as Uesugi again, they were awesome:balloon2:
If you wan't some inspiration, check out the movie RAN or any other Kurosawa movies :book:

[Grumfoss]

Japan and the Far East I think would make a special 'New' version of the game. As many people have already stated they have enjoyed playing Shogun & MI expansion ( I know I did) A new game incorporating China would be excellent.:bow: Cor!! can you imagine the animation of Samurai fighting in all their glory... I can and it would be excellent. ( Yes I've got a copy of RAN )

The Idea of playing a Napoleonic TW game really does not appeal to me ( They could use the same AI, you know the one where the troops just stand there and gets shot ~:) The idea of rows of soldiers lining up and shooting each other until one side runs away is to me really boring. :shrug:

My personal thoughts on the TW series is that the game is great because of the battles are close up and intense..

So please no musket TW for me.