Protectorates

[Magister Militum]

Why won't a faction(aedui in this case) not become my protectorate altough I was willing to give 300000 denarii and 4 territories( of which 2 I conquered of them)

if you know anything, thanks

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi,
Protectorates can only really be allowed by the AI if they are down to one measly little province. The best option in this situation is to first go and ask for a protectorate with a decent diplomat. If they refuse then attack their richest and largest provinces and exterminate them. Carry on besieging their cities and stretch their armies to breaking point by destroying them all. Once they are down to this one or two province(s) ask them again. They should be more that willing to accept a protectorate off of you now. If they refuse, send in your army and finish 'em off. Good luck with your protectorate and cheers!

[DeathEmperor]

Well protectorate and diplomacy (especially diplomace) has always been hard to deal with in regards to the ai in many mods, but in my experience protectorates aren't hard for me to acquire.

In my current Epeiros campaign I managed to make the Getai (who had 5 or 6 cities) my protectorate after I annihilated three of their armies (one 3 quarter stack and 2 half stacks). They offered a ceasefire the next tun but I managed to make them a protectorate after offering them map info and 20,000 mnai.

Bear in mind that this was in a medium/medium campaign and I have yet to finish my current hard/hard campaigns, as I'm a relatively new player, but long time fan, of EB.

[-Praetor-]

Does anyone has a "professional" knowledge on how to work a protectorate out of an enemy faction?

I mean:

Does devastating enemy fields help?
Blockading?
How frequent should you ask for it?
Does it mean anything that you send good dipliomats to ask for it?
etc...

I saw some guides some time ago, but they were made for 1.2 engine... something that has varied with the 1.5 update...

Cheers!!!

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I know that the smaller their forces the less likely they are to submit to client rule and I also know that them having only one small province helps.

[Kugutsu]

Does being a protectorate mean that the faction can never attack you? Or can they break their word?

I know the other way they can be broken - when I was playing as the Sweboz, the Romans asked me to be their protectorate, and I accepted for an easy, secure southern border, as I had no interest in going that way. Next turn the Romans attacked me, even though I was their protectorate... Needless to say I mustered my armies, crossed the alps and laid waste to northern Italy, before retreating back to those nice, defendable passes, but it was all a bit pointless.

[Vorian]

Personally, I have never ever managed to persuade someone to be my Protectorate. In my Macedonian campaign i had killed almost all Pontic family members except one, left them only Amaseia with a pityful army and tried to make them be my protectorate by giving them back all their territories, plus Byzantium which was the reason for the war, plus 400,000 mnai and again, they refused.:wall: :wall: That was just an example but it always goes this way.

[Magister Militum]

well thanks guys, I hope it works because they already have only one province and even less than a quarter stack army...

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I have found that the longer you have a war and the more territories you take, the less likely they will accept being your protectorate. As the Romans I beat the Ptolemais down to one "town" level city with one eithiopian and one family member inside. They also had a depleted group of phalanx outside. I besieged the town and talked to the army, offering $100,000 and becoming my protectorate... they refused. By contrast I fought the Armenians for about two turns, took one of their two towns and did similar to their last town and they accepted for $20,000.

I heard somewhere that CA claims they will accept if you besiege all of their towns. Not true...

Most protectorates I get are guys I am at peace with then throw something small at me and when I defeat it they accept becoming Protectorate.

Protectorates can and do attack their protector. I have had guys agree and a couple turns later betray me. In my oppinion there should be something like a twenty year time before they can betray their overlords.

Has anyone ever gotten that forced diplomacy script to work? That would be awesome to even things out in the crappy diplomacy.

[Boyar Son]

For me, you have to leave them with one settlement and they'll probably counter offer you by asking large amounts of money.and they had no army but a garrison.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I never had a protectorate, so what is it good for? Is it just an official status? Or does that really means something for the game, e. g. could you govern their cities or their armies?

[DeathEmperor]

I never had a protectorate, so what is it good for? Is it just an official status? Or does that really means something for the game, e. g. could you govern their cities or their armies?
Basically when you make another faction a protectorate they pay you a tribute of some mnai every turn, and their cities count as yours.

This doesn't mean you control what can be built and recruited in them, but that they count as your own territories. Say you had 10 regions and you make a faction that has 3 a protectorate. Those three cities are now counted as belonging to your faction so you own 13 regions, but you only directly control your original 10.

I think my psot was a bit confusing :shame: so I'll stop now and let someone else answer your question.

[soibean]

I really dont feel its worth the sacrifice for getting a protectorate. With most factions, using the example above, by the time you have 10 provinces you should be set for mnai. The additional money from your 3 protectorate provinces are only a little extra. In my opinion, if you force a faction into a protectorate, they shouldnt be able to build military units for a certain amount of turns or some such.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I never had a protectorate, so what is it good for? Is it just an official status? Or does that really means something for the game, e. g. could you govern their cities or their armies?
Directly, all that it does is makes an enemy into a ally with trade rights, military access given, and military access allowed. Nearly the same as using diplomacy to get a neutral faction to give you those four things.

[Tuuvi]

In .74 I started a pontos campaign, I was only 5 years in when I accidentally went to war with them...I had no armies because I was building my economy, I coudn't get a ceasefire so just for fun asked I asked them to become my protectorate, and they accepted...So in rare cases the AI will become your protectorate even it they are stronger then you.

[Thaatu]

They won't become your protectorate if they hate you. They might if they like you. I've managed to have protectorates on two occations.

1.) In RTR I was Macedon and was allied to greek cities for 30 years or more and I regulary gave them tribute and gifts. Then they suddenly blockaded one of my ports, so I immediately asked the to be my protectorate and they accepted. Then I helped them conquer Illyria and we were happy until the end of times (consistent CTD).

2.) In EB as Seleukids I sieged both Parthian cities for 5 years, breaking off the siege every once in a while. I was testing the CA "siege all their cities" theory, and when I finally found their diplomat, he said no. So I got frustrated, used add_money and gave them 1,000,000 for protectorate, which they accepted (I removed their million mnai after that :devil: ).
Parthia was allied with Ptolies, who I was in war with. So as I became Parthia's ally, the game calculated, instead of breaking the alliance between Parthia and Ptolies, that there would be a ceasefire between me and Pt. So when the turn passed and Ptoly attacked me again, Parthia decided to break our alliance just like that. I had always thought there would be an automatic decloration of war if a protectorate breaks the alliance, but I guess not.

So when people say protectorates don't matter, it really means that. They only work correctly if it's a happy marriage or if you're really, really lucky.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Does anyone has a "professional" knowledge on how to work a protectorate out of an enemy faction?

I mean:

Does devastating enemy fields help?
Blockading?
How frequent should you ask for it?
Does it mean anything that you send good dipliomats to ask for it?
etc...

I saw some guides some time ago, but they were made for 1.2 engine... something that has varied with the 1.5 update...

Cheers!!!

Well not "professional" but, I experienced this:
1 Nope - the AI doesn't really feel it
2 Nope - because the AI hardly ever cares about it; and in the case of ships you're most likely anihilated by some pirates that you annoyed in the first place by taking some Eleutheroi settlement
3 You shouldn't ask about it; they should be "asking" for a ceasefire; then you can counter offer to become a protectorate - which they may accept, also depending on the details of your offer (sweetners etc.).
4 Nope.

What really seems to work is anihilating their field armies and then besieging (but not assaulting) as much cities as possible at the same time. This effectively means that the AI isn't able to produce any more military anywhere near, and then it will try diplomacy instead.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I never had a protectorate, so what is it good for? Is it just an official status? Or does that really means something for the game, e. g. could you govern their cities or their armies?

The meaning in game is that you get money from your protectorate without having to maintain public order over there. It's relatively cheap way of earning lot's of money, especially because of the EB background script... :grin:

[Fleeb]

Question that may be related: what's a client kingdom? I've seen this message a few times, with a little write up like "these two kingdoms have tossed away independence and become client kingdoms" Same thing as one being a protectorate?

[-Praetor-]

Question that may be related: what's a client kingdom? I've seen this message a few times, with a little write up like "these two kingdoms have tossed away independence and become client kingdoms" Same thing as one being a protectorate?

I have always interpreted that as a protectorate...

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Yes, the computer is just telling you:
"faction x" has just become the protectorate of "faction x".

[Ludens]

Does anyone has a "professional" knowledge on how to work a protectorate out of an enemy faction?
A developer started a thread about this a long time ago. You can find it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39287). In my limited experience with vanilla R:TW, the requirements he mentioned are about right. But I seldom bother with protectorates after I once gave two cities and a big sum of cash to a reduced rival to make them my client, only to have them break away after two turns when I attacked one of their allies :rtwno: .

[Cheexsta]

From my experience:

NEVER TRY AND GET PROTECTORATES.

You will always gain a protectorate if you offer them a million mnai in return, but they are so bugged it is not funny. It screws with your income reports at the beginning of each turn, even when the alliance is broken.

So my advice would be to avoid getting them altogether.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Wise answers from Ludens and Cheexsta. No surprise of course that though! :grin:

[Dumbass]

From my experience:

NEVER TRY AND GET PROTECTORATES.

You will always gain a protectorate if you offer them a million mnai in return, but they are so bugged it is not funny. It screws with your income reports at the beginning of each turn, even when the alliance is broken.

So my advice would be to avoid getting them altogether.

I could do the wise thing and listen to your advice. But no I must keep trying to get proctectorates even if they are buggy. Why you say? Cos they're soo damn irresistable!

[skuzzy]

Protectorates are nice for empires far from your capital. You get cash incentive and do not have to deal with enormous building project and army costs to maintain the cities. So the idea is cash incentive instead of draining your pocket. Unfortunately the AI has some sort of Japanese WW2 complex and enjoys watching themselves crumble. I really wish that Sega would realize they have a specialized niche of players and stop trying to glamorize the game and work on AI. But this argument is old, yet the thread sadly reminds me of it. God bless the EB team.

[Tiberius Nero]

In my experience you can't get protectorates in anything that plays with the RTW 1.5 .exe period. Come to think of it, you can't even get a ceasefire (except in the early, early years of the campaign), let alone protectorates. Even if you have reduced the enemy to a small town in the middle of the desert and you offer them 30 regions and 100000 cash back, they will still laugh at any sort of offer that terminates hostilities. It is pathetic.

[Cheexsta]

I could do the wise thing and listen to your advice. But no I must keep trying to get proctectorates even if they are buggy. Why you say? Cos they're soo damn irresistable!
In my Roman campaign I got sick of the Carthaginians constantly attacking my lands in Africa, so I gathered up a million mnai (not that hard when you own enough gold mines) and paid them to become my protectorates.

The first few turns were fine, they paid the money back (since protectorates give you a certain amount of money depending on what they don't spend - and since they won't spend a million mnai in a turn, you get it all back anyway) and everything was fine and dandy.

But then after a while the income reports got all messed up. According to the report I was earning 30k each turn from diplomacy, but it didn't add into my treasury. It got so frustrating that I ended up rolling back to an earlier savegame from several years before, and just crushed the Carthaginians completely.

This used to happen in 1.2 as well, but not as much (it only happened when I tried any of the "diplomacy exploits" of 1.2).

So my suggestion would be to avoid the headaches that accompany protectorates completely.