Why CA does not react on nazism

[KrooK]

I sometimes see guys called Phantom or similar.
I'm almost sure he is German.
He enter game and start telling nazism propaganda. Something like sieg heil, SS, hitler, himmler and similar. I wonder why chat monitor or gs staff does not react on these situation. I have seen that guy about 5 times and gs staff did nothing. They didn't even ban his account.
I wonder if CA know that public supporting nazism is crime.

[Derfasciti]

Where do you live, Krook? In America at least, that freedom is allowed us. And CA is an american group.

[Monarch]

Where do you live, Krook? In America at least, that freedom is allowed us. And CA is an american group.

No, they're British with a Aussie office too.

And nazism is complete and utter bollucks, so someone should give the kid a slap just for being to stupid. But more officially its racism, amongst other things. Free speech is one thing, racism is quite another.

Oh and Krook is Polish, so you can understand why he would feel particularly strongly about this.

Anyway krook best thing to do is to report his gs id, he'll probably make another, but its worth a ago :inquisitive:

[RTKBarrett]

No, they're British with a Aussie office too.

And nazism is complete and utter bollucks, so someone should give the kid a slap just for being to stupid. But more officially its racism, amongst other things. Free speech is one thing, racism is quite another.

Oh and Krook is Polish, so you can understand why he would feel particularly strongly about this.

Anyway krook best thing to do is to report his gs id, he'll probably make another, but its worth a ago :inquisitive:

Surely they can catch his IP whenever he uses that account?

[ElmarkOFear]

just put him on ban and ignore and kick him from any games he enters. It will take the community as a whole to get rid of him, but it can be done.

Is the ban and ignore function in M2TW permanent like with STW/MTW?

I haven't had the occasion to use it much yet.

[Denali]

:daisy:

[Denali]

come on guys... don't be so sensitive.... he is a pr**k, at least don't edit the screenshot, im just trying to help... :thumbsdown:

[Monarch]

I didnt read all that, care to summarise?

Edit: erm, I guess the post I was reffering to got deleted?

[KrooK]

I wrote e-mail to CA. As for now - no reply. Looks like its ok for them if someone glorify nazism on their forum.

[Stig]

I wrote e-mail to CA. As for now - no reply. Looks like its ok for them if someone glorify nazism on their forum.
You try posting "I love Nazi's" on .com, I know about 15 mods that will ban you before you even pressed submit

[Hosakawa Tito]

The most effective course of action is peer pressure. If there's an ignore function use it, any attention in the chat is exactly what they seek, don't give them what they want. Refuse to play in any game the perpetrators join or host. After being totally ignored for awhile they tend to go elsewhere.

[Monarch]

You try posting on .com, I know about 15 mods that will ban you before you even pressed submit

Corrected the quote a little :2thumbsup:

[ElmarkOFear]

Since there is an ignore function in the M2TW lobby, this problem should be moot.

If any of you remember what happened the last time someone made a point to complain about Rome's lobby, you would be very careful how you approached CA on this issue. For those who aren't aware of what CA did to the Rome lobby when someone threatened a lawsuit (or at the very least, bad publicity), CA closed down the lobby completely. Then reinstated the lobby, minus the ability to chat within the lobby for quite a long time.

If a big issue is made of this, you may have to decide if you would rather just put this nazi-spouting idiot on ignore or do without the chat function. If you choose the latter, then you are punishing the wrong people and not the trouble maker.

You can't expect others to fight all your battles, especially when there is a remedy available for you to eliminate the problem (the ignore command).

I can guarantee CA will overreact on this issue if pressed.

[KrooK]

Sorry but I can't agree with previous post. We have our laws and our rights to use them.
CA blocked ability of using some words, why they can't some add others like
"heil hitler".
Actually into Poland that behavior would be very good reason to put lawsuit againts both that Germand and CA. CA must know that they are responsible for words on their lobby. So if we can't say "shit" - "heil hitler" should be blocked too.

[ElmarkOFear]

Though why can't you just put this person on ignore and ban? Problem solved. CA has given everyone a way to eliminate idiots like this nazi propagandist, so why not use it? Would you rather see the chat server shut down like before?

Given CA hasn't shown much interest in MP over the years, I am sure they would be most happy to shut down the chat server. At least until the new expansion is out and they want to market its multiplayer feature once more.

BTW: Such speak of supporting Nazism is illegal in some countries, not all. As much as we hate it, in a lot of countries, we have to put up with it. CA is based in England and Australia. I am not sure, but I believe spouting nazi propaganda is not considered illegal in those two countries. It's stupid and hateful, but I do not think it is illegal (You would have to ask someone who lives there). Though hate speech is banned in those two places, so you may be able to go at it from that angle instead. Unfortunately, I know little of international law and its relationship to the internet. Given the RTW lobby didn't have a way to ban individuals (supposedly, which is why they shut the RTW chat server down for such a long time awhile back), I wonder if it is possible with the M2TW lobby? If not, I guess CA could shut down chat for those individuals residing in countries where it is illegal. That is what they did with Rome's chat lobby, I am sure they can do it again.

As I stated before, every time someone in the community sees somebody being offensive (or saying something which is considered illegal in their country), they can PM everyone in the lobby and ask them to put the guy on ignore and ban him from their games. If he doesn't get a rise out of people, he will go away. Since this is the internet, there is no way to really punish this low life, but you can make things uncomfortable for him by ignoring/banning.

Your idea of having certain words placed in the "filter" also appears to be a possible solution, but do you have any idea exactly how many words there would be necessary to filter such language? Plus, do you know how easy it is to get around these filters if you really want to? Just add some extra characters between letters. Then you add on top of this 100's of languages and it would take another server just to document all offensive and illegal words/speech.

Either way, I hope you have success in stopping this big dummy. There is no place in the TW community for such hatefulness, nor the world for that matter.

[Lusted]

A is based in England and Australia. I am not sure, but I believe spouting nazi propaganda is not considered illegal in those two countries. It's stupid and hateful, but I do not think it is illegal (You would have to ask someone who lives there).

It's not illegal in the UK. You might be able to use the hate crime angle, but ignoring him would work best. He's probably just some idiot saying those things for fun to annoy people. So put him on ignore.

[Kenchi_Shaka]

anything with an erotical context is censored.

the word sex is censored, even if u only say "its expensive..."
the word viagra is also censored.

sieg heil, heil hitler and that stuff is not cencored...

i hate the censor and wish it was removed, but as long there is one they shall suppress facsism be4 they censor anythin else.


Derfasciti Where do you live, Krook? In America at least, that freedom is allowed us. And CA is an american group.

i think a discussion about wheter freedom of speech is a good thing or not is legal, but facsism isnt interested in that discussion, it simply denies it.
why should it be granted freedom of speech then?

shaka

[ElmarkOFear]

I can see banning those few words, but as you know, it is very easy to get around filters . . . *S-E=X, ZEX, S3X and a bunch of other ways, so filtering these words might slow such down, but not eliminate it altogether. CA could do it as a feel good, politically correct thing to do, but it wouldn't stop those who are persistent about such things.

[hellenes]

Im in no way simpaphysing with nazism but dont you think that by directly supressing it we become more like them?
Also supression on a large scale does nothing but give fuel to the claim that "The jews rule USA/the world"...

[Veho Nex]

I've read through laws in america it's not illegal but in some states they have made it illegal. In the south (used to live there) there where protest all the time (ive been to atleast 6)(my bro is kinda redneck racist) but ive also been to anti hate rallys. as long as there is no violence its not illegal but once it gets outa hand thats when cops and firemen and ect. arrive. in california there are alot of gay pride protest but havnt seen any Klu klux klan or White rallies. (believe the minute one is in with 100 miles my bro lets me know) and for the record I, myself am not racist but I kinda like political history and so on so please dont take this the wrong way im just adding my input

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Though why can't you just put this person on ignore and ban? Problem solved. CA has given everyone a way to eliminate idiots like this nazi propagandist, so why not use it? Would you rather see the chat server shut down like before?

Given CA hasn't shown much interest in MP over the years, I am sure they would be most happy to shut down the chat server. At least until the new expansion is out and they want to market its multiplayer feature once more.

BTW: Such speak of supporting Nazism is illegal in some countries, not all. As much as we hate it, in a lot of countries, we have to put up with it. CA is based in England and Australia. I am not sure, but I believe spouting nazi propaganda is not considered illegal in those two countries. It's stupid and hateful, but I do not think it is illegal (You would have to ask someone who lives there). Though hate speech is banned in those two places, so you may be able to go at it from that angle instead. Unfortunately, I know little of international law and its relationship to the internet. Given the RTW lobby didn't have a way to ban individuals (supposedly, which is why they shut the RTW chat server down for such a long time awhile back), I wonder if it is possible with the M2TW lobby? If not, I guess CA could shut down chat for those individuals residing in countries where it is illegal. That is what they did with Rome's chat lobby, I am sure they can do it again.

As I stated before, every time someone in the community sees somebody being offensive (or saying something which is considered illegal in their country), they can PM everyone in the lobby and ask them to put the guy on ignore and ban him from their games. If he doesn't get a rise out of people, he will go away. Since this is the internet, there is no way to really punish this low life, but you can make things uncomfortable for him by ignoring/banning.

Your idea of having certain words placed in the "filter" also appears to be a possible solution, but do you have any idea exactly how many words there would be necessary to filter such language? Plus, do you know how easy it is to get around these filters if you really want to? Just add some extra characters between letters. Then you add on top of this 100's of languages and it would take another server just to document all offensive and illegal words/speech.

Either way, I hope you have success in stopping this big dummy. There is no place in the TW community for such hatefulness, nor the world for that matter.

Hey,

no place in the TW MP communtiy for Hate like this, but I must argee with Elmark and Krook though.

Yes, I find saying Nazi Proganda is stupid and crude, but banning them is the best way- unless it's taking place on a fourm.

You can nolfity CA m8, Krook, might be good idea to do that, but then again, like El said, we all remember what happen when a certain MP player went to CA? ?

If it takes place on a fourm then yes. DOn't listen to the "just ignore them" people here aat TW MP, because if it take place at a place (not at .com), then I doubt it going to be proleplyy handed, expect for a ban for him.

I say, don't respond. Take pics and ask admins to leave the posts there for physcial online proof. Ask for his IP, and go to IP infomation place, I use WHOIS, and find out his ISP and report him. I reported people,are in the process of reporting someone and even been threated myself once, so I know how the Process Works Krook. Let the ISP shut him down if he does it on a fourm..

[KrooK]

Guys I know what can be done if you say any nazis propaganda into other games. For example into Wolfenstain it results into kick and ban for a week.
Sorry but maybe CA should kick and ban?

[YellowMelon]

Screw nazism, why in gods name are they legally allowed to sell us this rubbish that is practically broken. If I bought an ipod and it didnt turn on, Im pretty sure ide get my money back. GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK.

[ElmarkOFear]

Yup, if CA can ban this guy, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

Though during the RTW chat fiasco, I thought CA mentioned they had no way of identifying or actually banning a player from the gamespy server. There was some reason mentioned why they couldn't ban the few players doing much of the same as this guy is doing. If M2TW is set up differently, they may very well be able to permanently ban this guy's cd-key. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

I DID notice tonight this person was online, and someone told everyone to avoid this guy's game and that he was spouting nazi nonsense. From what I saw nobody spoke to the guy, nor joined his game. When I got out of a game after it locked up at launch, the guy was gone.

I think if, we as a community keep this up, we can eliminate the problem outselves. If not, then we can ask CA, as a community and not just a few players, to get rid of this guy permanently.

However, if anyone resorts to mentioning the word "lawsuit" or "going to the media" I would expect CA to do a pre-emptive closing of the chat lobby like they did in RTW.

I would be willing to put my signature to a request to ban this person, since I personally abhor any type of hate speech.

[KrooK]

Member of CA respond on my e-mail today.
I can't tell what exactly he told because it was private e-mail but I'm absolutely satisfied. CA won't allow on nazi propaganda on gs.

I must tell that CA handled with problem seriously.

[ElmarkOFear]

That is good news. :yes:

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Hey,


Very Great News indeed Krook. Glad you are taking a stand :) :)

[pike master]

if the guys statements have actually attacked other people he should be banned from lobby. i do not like nazism but ive seen people talk of their muslim fundamentalists beliefs which i dont really care to hear either. its not a matter of saying you are a nazi or a muslim its when you start verbally attacking other beliefs and groups that crosses the line. if that line is crossed he should be banned but people should also be censored for abusing holes in the language filters too.

the game is for late teen ratings but you never know that some 10 year old kid could be on there or someguys wife looks over his shoulder while he is viewing the lobby and sees some of the statements made on it and hits him over the head with a skillet.

[Dionysus9]

I think what is most frustrating to me is the mindless and arbitrary censorship of normal conversation. Normal phrases such as: "but its spice" turn out as : *** ** *****. That phrase is completely censored by the lobby, while "I kill [enter ethnic group here]" is allowed.

Dont get me wrong, I agree with Elmarko-- but if CA is going to have some bogus censorship in place, they might want to improve its efficacy or remove it. Frankly, it only frustrates me when I'm trying to have a normal adult conversation and it does nothing to stop the abusive punks that are causing problems.

Just more crap we have to deal with if we want to play MP. Brilliant!:idea2:

[Dionysus9]

Can someone tell me why the word "spice" is banned?

I can sort of understand "but its" being an attempt to stop people from saying "tits".... but banning "spice"?

And whats wrong with tits anyway?

So now I have to say: "However, it is a flavorful condiment" when I want to refer to spice...

And dont ask me why I like spice so much, its none of your business :P

[ElmarkOFear]

I believe the filter thinks you are using a derogatory term for "someone of hispanic heritage". The S and the P and the I and the C is a filterable term if they are trying to eliminate such. Not sure why the E though, unless it is just filtering out the entire word instead of just parts.

[Abokasee]

In my opion any nazi proganda should be punishable by HIV injection, then be thrown STRAIGHT into a volcano, whilst having stones thrown at them, If there still alive they'll be hung by there left foot from A really tall building.

Glad thats out of my system,

[pike master]

the problem i think would be solved if they actually had a human monitor watching the stuff as well as a bot. but that most likely wont happen unless someone does volunteer work for them.

[Subedei]

I sometimes see guys called Phantom or similar.
I'm almost sure he is German.
.

So how come? You asked him? He/she told you?

Don´t get me wrong, I dislike/take an active stand against Nazis, Nationalists & the like. But on the other hand: I am sick of statements like that. Somebody writes some BS, "Yeah, he gotta be German! cos that is where all Nazis are".
This does not come up to the complexity of the whole problem. Yes, there are right wingers in Germany, that is a fact. Sad and true, BUT:

One of the problems is, that they get their "propaganda staff" from outside of Germany, as the distribution is forbidden in this country. Another problem: they often have their meetings in neighboring countries [e.g. Netherlands, Poland, Denmark...] and these countries do not really react with police or something. they tolerate.
Just look at organizations like the unbelievably stupid & violent Hammerskins...U get them for free in the US, Canada, UK, Netherlands, Poland, ...u call it. Police hunted them down in Germany btw.
Some of the leaders live outside of Germany to avoid prison. But still manage their organizations from outside. The hosting countries don´t/can´t do anything against those guys.

2 sum things up: you gotta fight the international network to get ahold of the whole problem. If that was possible....i doubt it.

And I wanted to add: good job KrooK.

[pike master]

true dat

most germans carry a lot of guilt over there past history. they are not the same people they once were.however i do think they are a bunch of arrogant UN philes

[ELITEofBLIZZARD]

Thx mad, where are you from i want to generate a random insult too :laugh4: (dont take me too serious :whip: )

@subedei,krook, and others who care about this:

the guy is called {DHD_PHANTOM_DHD}, at least something like this, not sure about the { and _ and so on but thats pretty near to his lobby nick.

and yes, he is german, and yes he writes anti jewish, anti muslim anti normal people stuff. he never said, im a nazi or something like that but thats close to what he is. the number of people like him grow here in germany. uneducated, dumb, idiots... dont know what to do with themselfs, become racists to pretend to be at least something more than scum, but thats what they really are.

i told him already hes a god damn xxxxx. well but u cant talk to this people, he wanted to have my adress to do funny stuff with me and/or my mother... well i gave it to him... he didnt show up yet... good for him and his health.

edit: and plz... people like Derfasciti just go away and keep playing second wolrd war in your virginia forrests... you dont have any clue about racism, nazism and what they really mean to society.

[Subedei]

@ KrooK: O.k., so here is PROOF he is German. Bad enough.
@ELITEofBLIZZARD:
Right...we have that tendency when it comes to some [not the majority] poor uneducated people. Oh, and yes, most of them Righties tend to be cowards when it comes to make a stand, except if they are in groups.
"DHD = Deutsche Haudegen"...for god´s sake....

Are there more of these "people" on MP?!? Never been there so I don´t know....

Me is off think about other, nicer things e.g. Liverpool whooping Barca yesterday....and maybe Bayern winning 2nite.....:fortune:

[Stig]

A couple of things:
1. Swearing doesn't help, you will only make sure that chat is disabled again .. as it was in RTW.
2. He might me German, but that doesn't matter. There are loads of good Germans, no need to go after all of them.
3. There's nothing wrong with recreating the world war in real life. I believe people also play games as Battlefield 1942, Company of Heroes, and all sorts of WW2 games.
4. You can't do anything against it. Only solution is putting them is concentration camps, as the Boers and Jews were put into camps, and even that didn't work.

[ELITEofBLIZZARD]

Thats not the topic and i dont want to discuss this here any further but for me, there is a problem if u recreate world war 2 and glorify the wehrmacht BUT especially glorify the Waffen-SS. the report i saw on tv showed an old veteran of the Waffen-SS who told the guys what they have done wrong and can improive when they tried to excercise but shows his respect for them and their "hobby".

and for me its an unbelievable dullness and ignorance that U.S. people "rebuild" the Waffen-SS and are proud of it. the gist of what they said was "the Waffen-SS were the best unit in Hitlers army". they dont know anything about history. they dont know what the Waffen-SS really was about, what they did and in what these monsters believed.

we all played good vs evil, good vs nazis, bandits vs noblemen when we were kids. and thats ok. but for me, someone who compares the Waffen-SS with elite soldiers and is proud to look as similiar as possible to hitlers soldiers is either unbelievable uneducated or... a fascist.

btw: especially americans should not forget... the members of the Waffen-SS are very much comparable to muslim suicide attackers. they were also indoctrinated and extrem fanatic in their believe of hitler as their Führer. they didnt fought for their nation, they fought for the reign of nazism, so for the reign of murder, violence and injustice.

i know that people outside of germany might have an other view on this issue, but they should not forget that it acutually is a difference if u judge this from a distance or if u really engaged with this topic, because u are german and u are interested in our history and what it made of us and what it will make of us if things keep changing like they do right now.

[Subedei]

4. You can't do anything against it. Only solution is putting them is concentration camps, as the Boers and Jews were put into camps, and even that didn't work.

I really think education does help...even if it sounds a bit to Ghandiesque....

[KrooK]

Subedei
If someone speak that he is German and then start speak German - I think I can trust that he is German?
I don't think anyone here can speak english that he is Pole and then speak normal polish if he is not Pole. Sorry Subedei - but that guy really is German.

BTW Best units into nazis army were paratroopers IMO - they did well at Monte Cassino.

[Subedei]

Temper, temper my young friend. May I remind you of your first post:

I sometimes see guys called Phantom or similar.
I'm almost sure he is German.
.

I already said that he was German. ALMOST is not 100% sure...or am I wrong here???? 2 me it sounded like a guess....

[Kenchi_Shaka]

"spice" mite be somethin inpolite in an other language....

they have cencored any curse in any language. thats why there are only few legal words left.
such as "sieg heil".

[-Silent-Someguy]

Once there was a clan in the lobby called [SS] and one of the guys was [SS]AryanPride. Anyways I joined his game "SS waffen 33rd Division" or some such thing, and he was talking about nazis and what not. Anyways mabye its the same guy?

[Skyline Pete]

BTW: Such speak of supporting Nazism is illegal in some countries, not all. As much as we hate it, in a lot of countries, we have to put up with it. CA is based in England and Australia. I am not sure, but I believe spouting nazi propaganda is not considered illegal in those two countries.

No, we (Australia) don't need stupid laws banning what I consider to be free speech.

NO text/speech of any sort should be banned EVER at all. Those people of intelligence levels who believe the sort of talk you speak of should be educated to better understand why it's garbage/truth and thus be left up to their own, albiet hopefully educated, devices to make up thier mind.

Banning something and just saying "Because it's bad mmmkay!" is not an appropriate response.

[R'as al Ghul]

Funny, one of their clan-rules says that it's not allowed to insult other players on their own or third party servers. :beam:

Their site is decorated with iron crosses and the warflag of the ww1 period. This flag is not illegal in Germany, as the 3rd Reich flag, but it's often used by Nationalists and NeoNazis in Germany.

Most probably they are a bunch of kids that like to shock others with their attitude. Annoying, I agree.

[pike master]

[btw: especially americans should not forget... the members of the Waffen-SS are very much comparable to muslim suicide attackers. they were also indoctrinated and extrem fanatic in their believe of hitler as their Führer. they didnt fought for their nation, they fought for the reign of nazism, so for the reign of murder, violence and injustice]

a little known fact about the german nazis in post world war 2 germany was that they conducted a guerilla war for up to 5 years after the end of the war. it petered out because it was rarely mentioned in the news at the time.

perhaps thats a valuable lesson the world as a whole could learn from now. since the islamic radicals are conducting many bombings and attacks to get in the news and disturb people and terrorify them into wanting to pull their troops out and the country fall into their hands.

sorry i have to say it

what is the right thing to do over there in iraq. should the coalition just pull out and leave these people to the terrorists and wait for our turn or should be continue to stand against them.

the goals of the leadership in terrorist organizations are very grand indeed. i wonder what the future will hold if we make the wrong decisions in the next few years.

all i can say is i would have no idea what the leaders of the nations involved in the coalition have to face everyday in this.

i mean the jokers are gassing their own people. somethings got to be done but i havent a clue what to do.

but as i said when germany was overrun the nazis conducted a fanatical insurgency for 4 to 5 years but the world stayed there anyways. and once they realized no one was taking any notice and no country was going to help fund their efforts they melted away.

[Stig]

sure, who told you that? Krook?

[pike master]

i read it in a book called dirty secrets of world war 2 but i cant remember the author of the book. i used to have it but i cant find it now.

[KrooK]

Not me
German guerilla resistance on polish territories has been finished once for ever when Germans from Poland were send to Germany. Which was best thing we could do.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

If someone speak that he is German and then start speak German - I think I can trust that he is German?

I can tell you that I'm Canadian and begin to speak English. Does that mean I'm Canadian? No.

It doesn't matter what nationality the person who spews this garbage is, it's still wrong. However, I really despise how people say neo-Nazis must be German, or that a German is more likely to be one. If someone can't get it through their thick skull that neo-Nazis are any different or worse because a particular neo-Nazi is German, then they come across as being just as racist in my mind.

On a related note, how is it the fault of our generation of Germans for what our ancestors did? Give it a rest, and stop blaming my generation for it. We weren't even born at the time, how was it our fault?

I'm not denying that the person was in fact German. All I'm saying is that, German or not, it does not make the German people as a whole better or worse, regardless of what some people on this forum would have you believe.

[pike master]

thats a good point.

a lot of new nazi fanatics are so into it they will learn the german language.

also what the book "dirty little secrets of world war 2" that was the name, was referring to the nazis waging a geurilla war on german homeland soil.

now understand we are not talking suicide bombings and general terrorism of the public like the insurgents in iraq.

im talking about ambushing allied patrols, capturing supply convoys or hijacking railcars, tearing up and damaging railroad tracks and highways to make them impassable, sniping, etc etc

the fanatiscism and stupidity of todays terrorists insurgents contain a different mentality than the type of insurgencies one would see in the american revolution or vietnam.

its not even similiar to the fanaticism of the japanese in world war 2 where i think the last japanese fighter surrendered sometime between the 60s and 70s i cant remember.

these guys have completely lost any respect for human life or even their own religion. to me a martyr or a holy warrior would be someone who died in battle. not blowing themselves up killing innocent women and children.

and if allah is "the " god i dont think he is going to allow these into his paradise.

[Lord Condormanius]

what is the right thing to do over there in iraq. should the coalition just pull out and leave these people to the terrorists and wait for our turn or should be continue to stand against them.

the goals of the leadership in terrorist organizations are very grand indeed. i wonder what the future will hold if we make the wrong decisions in the next few years.

all i can say is i would have no idea what the leaders of the nations involved in the coalition have to face everyday in this.


This sounds like something Dick Cheney would say. Except for the part about being unsure...



i mean the jokers are gassing their own people. somethings got to be done but i havent a clue what to do.


Ummm...? Not recently...not in a very long time actually.

[pike master]

im just calling it like i see it.

anyways that slightly off topic anyways.

it would be nice to have a forum where i could rip loose about how i really feel about things instead of having to walk on pins and needles.

sega runs the forum not CA. they need to have personal monitors on there to watch this stuff. but ive seen pretty disturbing statements from muslim fundamentalists, homosexuals, new nazis and other groups.

i dont like new nazis but i also dont like muslim fundamentalists or homosexuals advertising what they like to do in private either.

what about discussion on christian religion. you even mention a statement about christianity on the lobby you get shouted off. its odd you dont get shouted off if you start spitting out racist or anti-semitic garbage or telling people what you would like to do to them in a private manner.

odd indeed.

its not CA that is permitting this stuff on there its the community. if you dont like these guys spitting out stuff then jump on them as a whole in the community like you do when someone starts talking about god.

[Kenchi_Shaka]

No, we (Australia) don't need stupid laws banning what I consider to be free speech.

NO text/speech of any sort should be banned EVER at all. Those people of intelligence levels who believe the sort of talk you speak of should be educated to better understand why it's garbage/truth and thus be left up to their own, albiet hopefully educated, devices to make up thier mind.

Banning something and just saying "Because it's bad mmmkay!" is not an appropriate response.

yes text and speech should be banned if it calls for the extermination, deportation, suppresion, torture of mankind.

its not legal to send someone a letter saying "i ll kill you" neither in australia i guess. even if its jus a joke...

[Subedei]

im just calling it like i see it.
i dont like new nazis but i also dont like muslim fundamentalists or homosexuals advertising what they like to do in private either.

:weirdthread:

So what the heck is your point? You like old nazis, all non-fundamentalist Muslims and Gays that just shut up about their private lives?!?!? Somebody loves stereotypes I guess!?!?!?

[KrooK]

I share mad cah opinion.
If someone who tells that heterosexuals are better than homosexuals must shut up - someone who tells that muslims are better than christians must shut up too. If someone tells that homosexuals are better than heterosexuals - same.

Poland is accused of breaking laws of homosexuals these times. But all these homosexuals "defenders" are so shy when being asked about homosexuals parades. Last time some lesbians screamed "**** christians" - sorry but its unacceptable.

[pike master]

discussions that end up with someone screaming that you are being politically incorrect usually means the wabbits are gettin flushed out.

its usually the "victim" groups such as the new nazis etc. etc. that get away with all the bashing. when the "politically incorrect" try to stand up to them they are the ones who get shouted down.

i believe this to be an accurate and wise assessment.:bow:

[Subedei]

Well, sorry if you were thinking I tried to illustrate "shouting" by the use of "!?!?!?" and the like. Well, I try to point things out that way...that is it, no offence. I do it very often, check my other posts...so don´t feel bashed or how U wanna call it [Donßt know the word to well, as I am no native English-speaker, as one might have guessed].

I still think the use of stereotypes is not the best thing to do when it comes to topics which are highly political/ social sensitive.

Peace & Out!!!?!? [SEE!]

Subedei

[pike master]

all im saying is if you have any beliefs that might be uncomfortable to others including even seemingly harmless religion. i suppose you need to keep your views to yourself on the gaming lobby. no offense meant toward anyone.

we all need to stay focused on the game and harmless topics and laguage in the game lobby. and put pressure on people who use hate or offensive language or suggestions.

this is important since the multiplayer base is already quite small compared to a lot of other online games. and if some of these guys that do this stuff dont keep their mouths shut we will end up with another mtw/vi lobby where the only people left are so offensive that new players who jump on the lobby are run off because the chat monitor apparently is not operating anymore.

if it were not for the valor 1 tournaments i would just as well never go back to it, because i have to listen to the garbage. you type in ignore and the guy jumps off changes names and comes back on and starts again.

a few slipped words every now and then are understandable but when you are talking about the racist and obscene stuff those guys are talking about it should be a warning whats going to happen to rome and mtw2 if something isnt done. in example personal monitoring of the chat lobbies to locate and ban offenders.

[Subedei]

all im saying is if you have any beliefs that might be uncomfortable to others including even seemingly harmless religion. i suppose you need to keep your views to yourself on the gaming lobby. no offense meant toward anyone.

we all need to stay focused on the game and harmless topics and laguage in the game lobby. and put pressure on people who use hate or offensive language or suggestions.

.

Seconded!

[][GERUDO][Mojoman]

a very wise guy once said:

"ignore noobs and just pwn faces"

remember these words of wisdom :2thumbsup:

[Titan of Gaul]

Was that wise guy you or a space monkey?

[][GERUDO][Mojoman]

fluffy, destroyer of worlds :beam:

[Caerfanan]

I still think the use of stereotypes is not the best thing to do when it comes to topics which are highly political/ social sensitive.
I'm not a MP player, but the title of the thread did surprise me so I gave a look. Well, I've seen several stereotypes, there. But hopefuly some people have chosen not to react too much on those. It's quite good to have people with different point of views having the opportunity of sharing this, and I'm really glad that everything there stayed "within appropriate limits". But this clearly demonstrates that what you've lived by yourself, or your parents/grandparents changes your point of view on everything... I hope everyone has learned something there, I personally did! :bow:

[][GERUDO][Mojoman]

its not as bad as RTW...in RTW i remember this total prick who spammed anti-simetic stuff in the lobby :thumbsdown:

still i see some scary names, yesterday i saw sum1 called "CommanderRommel" :inquisitive:

[pike master]

i dont think rommel ever commanded an ss unit in world war 2 but he may have been a self professed nazi [not sure on this] nonetheless but it should be noted that he was enticed to commit suicide because of the feuhrers belief that he was involved in an assasination attempt.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I don't see anything wrong with Rommel. He was a very good man, disciplined, organized, and very controlled, humane, and professional to his prisoners, unlike some other commanders who I can recall, on both sides of the fighting.

EDIT: Rommel was only a member of the Nazi Party because he had to be. He was a career soldier, a commander before the Nazi Party came to power. There wasn't really another choice of career for him to take. As I mentioned before, he did not take any role in persecution of Jews, or any other race, and was as humane as he could be towards his prisoners, under the circumstances.

[Lord Condormanius]

[GERUDO][Mojoman']its not as bad as RTW...in RTW i remember this total prick who spammed anti-simetic stuff in the lobby :thumbsdown:

still i see some scary names, yesterday i saw sum1 called "CommanderRommel" :inquisitive:

There is nothing anti-semetic about a person calling himself "CommanderRommel" in the context of a war game.

[pike master]

after reading about his performance[world war 1] in the book "attacks" it is easily understandable how he sacked up so many allied units during world war 2. because he was known to be honorable and treated his prisoners well.

i can still remember reading how he and his vanguard jumped on bicycles ahead of his main body and blitzed down mountianous roads in italy overtaking an entire italian battle group with his battalion and causing them to surrender.as the bicycles went by the italians guns layed down.:laugh4:

and another time he had himself and a few scouts and fooled a italian formation into accepting surrender by convincing them he had them surrounded.:laugh4:

best general germany ever had.:yes:

[ELITEofBLIZZARD]

New name on the racist list. Called Imperator.

https://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3905/imperatorpw5.th.jpg (https://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imperatorpw5.jpg)

[pike master]

thats a good way to catch em. ill have to try that sometime. did you use a camera or print screen?

[ELITEofBLIZZARD]

simply press print button on they keyboard and paste it into irfanview or some other image tool

[CeltiberoMordred]

Another one: SS|German|Knight aka [COJOT]Lord|Bega

#id: 3C07F2B0

https://img122.imageshack.us/img122/1184/nazigotchapk2.jpg

Regards.

[Lupu]

What???:furious3:
Its many months ago(im Alpha-Lupus) SS|German|Knight was Lord|Bega, I didnt believe you.
I dont feel dishonoured cus he left cojot:idea2:

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

Heres my :2cents: I don't belive in nazism but I also don't belive people should be censored for what they think (no matter how stupid their beliefs are) because if we start censoring one group were going to have to censor another and another etc.... until free speech is eliminated.

[Denali]

We don't even have a proper (working) ban-feature. So there is really no way to ignore these kind of people.

I also believe in freedom of speech but I also want to have an option to have a rest sometimes.
The rome lobby is a perfect example of what happens if you let people do whatever they want... cursing, typign in CAPS LOCK, nazi-paroles, people yelling "noob", "bastard" etc... :juggle2:

[KrooK]

I can't agree with you. If we are shy, they think that we support them.
Imagine situation when there are 2 nazists and 10 people just staying around.
Nazist are starting screaming something , for example "s... h...", rest is just staying next to them and doing nothing.
What would you think if you walk next to these people? They they support 2 bosses.


I must tell that freedom of speech must have limits. For example nowadays pedofiles from Poland locate their websites on american servers, because they are safe on american ground. Every philozophers whom 250 years ago gave ideological basement for American constitution (mostly Locke) knew that freedom of speech must be limited by freedom of other people.

[Lord Condormanius]

I can't agree with you. If we are shy, they think that we support them.
Imagine situation when there are 2 nazists and 10 people just staying around.
Nazist are starting screaming something , for example "s... h...", rest is just staying next to them and doing nothing.
What would you think if you walk next to these people? They they support 2 bosses.


I must tell that freedom of speech must have limits. For example nowadays pedofiles from Poland locate their websites on american servers, because they are safe on american ground. Every philozophers whom 250 years ago gave ideological basement for American constitution (mostly Locke) knew that freedom of speech must be limited by freedom of other people.

No limits on freedom of speech. If you don't like what someone is saying, ignore them.

[KrooK]

Limitation for freedom of speech is freedom of other people.
If you don't understand it, you don't understand freedom.

[Lord Condormanius]

Limitation for freedom of speech is freedom of other people.
If you don't understand it, you don't understand freedom.

You are incorrect. I understand freedom perfectly.

[Genaral Julis]

Ack Nazism disgusts me. But what disgusts me more is people saying NAzi's have a right to spew their S#$%. I say we censor them..or kill them..I like the second option.

[Lord Condormanius]

Ack Nazism disgusts me. But what disgusts me more is people saying NAzi's have a right to spew their S#$%. I say we censor them..or kill them..I like the second option.

It sounds like freedom of speech disgusts you too.

[fireblade]

It has nothing to do with freedom. Total Freedom is a myth, leave one man entirely free and he will enslave a dozen others, there must be some sort of control, some sort of restriction to the weak person man is.

Nazism simply is a disgusting ideology, and I think everyone who lost someone dear to them due to a social experiment like that will agree on that.

It's the same like: Let everyone buy a gun, that's their right... ok.
Oh, we sold some guns to a bunch of loonatics, oh, they shoot five others, well, a sacrifice on the table of freedom.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have the right to say something is right or wrong, democracy is implemented for a reason, it's about people can't do what they like all the time.

Fireblade

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

No limits on freedom of speech. If you don't like what someone is saying, ignore them.

I agree with this. besides if someone is saying something and 20 other people are against him he will probably shut up on his own anyway.

[Lord Condormanius]

It has nothing to do with freedom. Total Freedom is a myth, leave one man entirely free and he will enslave a dozen others, there must be some sort of control, some sort of restriction to the weak person man is.

That is a bunch of baseless rhetoric.



Nazism simply is a disgusting ideology, and I think everyone who lost someone dear to them due to a social experiment like that will agree on that.

Yes, I agree. However, that doesn't mean that people can't talk about it. Each person is entitled to his own opinion.



It's the same like: Let everyone buy a gun, that's their right... ok.
Oh, we sold some guns to a bunch of loonatics, oh, they shoot five others, well, a sacrifice on the table of freedom.

That is a little bit of an extreme example when talking about freedom of speech, don't you think?



I'm not saying people shouldn't have the right to say something is right or wrong, democracy is implemented for a reason, it's about people can't do what they like all the time.

As long as it doesn't impede on anyone else, you can do whatever you want.

[YuriVII]

You know the best cure for rascism is to ignore. I mean do you all have such thin skin that when you see someone spout off some racist rhetorik you all become insecure? My country lost 25 million to the facists, and when I see neo-nazis, I just go on by minding my own buissness. It is funny, in my country we lost so much to them but their free speech rights are more or less maintained. Haha, especially with regard to Kasparov!!! Ha, poor hack!

[LadyAnn]

I agree with this. besides if someone is saying something and 20 other people are against him he will probably shut up on his own anyway.

Problem is that someone are not really nazi nor racist, but only want attention. A kind of baby who never grow up. If the only solution for someone who spew nazi-talk on lobby is the angry response of 20 people, then you will see those babies stir up just to see 20 angry people. The same who talk nazi would be the same who swear, etc. just to see 20 people shout "shut up" at them.

The "ignore" feature is a powerful thing, if implemented correctly. The ultimate penalty for a gamer is that he/she cannot join games if frequent hosts ban them from the games and good players ignore them.

I don't know why TW lobby is reimplemented for worse since R:TW.

Active policing, such as giving some people the power to ban other people, may lead to abuse. Abuse of power is worse sometimes.

Annik

[Hellenic_Hoplite]

all hail the ignore feature :beam:

[Kenshin the vega bound]

Dont feed the troll.

This is the sort of reaction this person is aimming for. If he sees this thread he will be laughing his ass off.

[Dagonet]

I've got an idea, let's all call on CA to publically denounce the Roman Empire. After all it and it's instruments commited no smaller crimes against people and peoples than did hitler his puppies.

You know what happens, krook, when you demand things from devs? You basically have two options, nothing happens, or something you don't want happens.

Now, i'm all for educating stupid people as to the extent of their stupidty, but that pretty well applies to your attitude on this as well as the "'nazi's."

I mean, looking at it sensibly, which do we think is more fascist, a guy randomly spouting gibberish in free, public, online media. Or a guy demanding that person be silenced. I'd say you're the one displaying facist tendencies here, somebody in an mp lobby saying "sieg heil" is far more likely to be a socially inept, attention seeking child than a sociopathic nazi.

Or we could all take a look in the history books and the history of polish fascism and ban any mention of poland. Or the great winston churchill's views on certain minority groups. such as jews..

People are generally stupid, it's a biological thing, organic matter is rather random in its orientation. Screaming and moaning and sending pissed off emails about it won't change much for the better.

So whaddyado? When it's on an individual level you ignore it, whether truly held belief or randomly selected offensive material, it's no more important than an individual believing the sky is actually a drug induced mist of purple and orange liquer. If it's not seconded, it's meaningless. If it doesn't garner social attention, it's a waste of time.

This message was sponsored by The Ministry for Directed Ridicule, Gastro-economics and Rural Affairs.

[Lamprey]

I don't agree with Krook when he says "limitation of freedom of speech is freedom of other people", and not only for the bad grammar. Saying Nazi propaganda is, while morally questionable in my opinion, perrfectly legal and should remain so. It doesn't affect anyone's freedom, no more than any of the other propaganda commonly being shouted by various groups in the US.

Pro lifers trying to ban abortion clinics, fundamental christians wanting to teach creationism, liberals agitating for gay marriage, anti-gun groups trying to ban firearms, protesters against the war in Iraq, and let's not forget the small but vicious lobby against the Easter Bunny.

Everyone has an agenda and an ideology, let them say it if they want to.

The limit on free speech is endangering other people. You can't yell 'fire' in a crowded place when there isn't one because people can panic and someone can get trampled - that sort of thing.

Trying to stop someone from speaking because you simply don't agree is the real danger. And using the fact that you're Polish as an excuse is even worse! Unless you're old enough for the nazis to have done something to YOU personally (which would make youaround 80-90 now), don't wrap yourself in a martyr's clothes because your grandpa got shot in the war.

Btw, I'm Polish myself and I don't use these excuses, and of course I have family killed and hurt by the nazis. Do I hold personal rancor? No, that would be stupid.

[KrooK]

Or the great winston churchill's views on certain minority groups. such as jews..

Yep - or maybe on people of Sudan..... He had good view - especially when aiming them. :)

Anyway there is no fascism in Poland. Simply we haven't this problem. I don't remember any murder because of colour of skin or religion into last 15 years.
How many was done into England?


Or we could all take a look in the history books and the history of polish fascism and ban any mention of poland.

Maybe you mean books made by John Tomass Gross - he love mentioning some facts and ingnoring rest. I love his words about Jews who were killing Poles after ww2. Something like "they were members of communist party and they did these things [killing and torturing Poles] as communists - so we can't tell that Jews were killing Poles".

In fact Poland into 30ties was one of 2 countries into Europe (2nd was Austria) when authoritarism (or fascism) was never connected with nationalism. So that your theories about polish fascists are abusive.
Polish fascist was name that Russian propaganda gave polish resistance - because Russians wanted justify their murderers on polish soldiers.
This propaganda became used by younger (the ones who were children or born after ww2) jewish historicians, spread into USA and then got back to Europe.

All in all I'm against nazists on game spy. They can tell their theories into their country but not on gs. GS is international and can't be area of nazism.

[TosaInu]

Saying Nazi propaganda is, while morally questionable in my opinion, perrfectly legal and should remain so. It doesn't affect anyone's freedom, no more than any of the other propaganda commonly being shouted by various groups in the US.


It's clear now that it means ending other peoples freedom and lives.

[Tribesman]

Anyway there is no fascism in Poland. Simply we haven't this problem.
Bollox , if there wasn't this problem then government ministers wouldn't have to be sacking their staff because they were filmed saluting a swastika at a polish nazi festival and people from the patriotic youth would certainly not be beating the crap out of the Chief rabbi on the streets of warsaw would they ...because things don't happen like that in Poland:dizzy2:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

It's clear now that it means ending other peoples freedom and lives.

I'd disagree. I don't think what someone says in a Total War MP lobby is going to affect my life or freedom.

[cegorach]

Bollox , if there wasn't this problem then government ministers wouldn't have to be sacking their staff because they were filmed saluting a swastika at a polish nazi festival and people from the patriotic youth would certainly not be beating the crap out of the Chief rabbi on the streets of warsaw would they ...because things don't happen like that in Poland:dizzy2:



Can you explain when did it happen ?

I have to admit I have heard about one teenager who attacked him with pepper spray (two years ago) and that would be the single incident of this sort in years.

Perhaps I am missing something here - would you care to explain.

Is this that you are talking about ?


Poland's chief rabbi, Michael Schudrich, was punched and sprayed with what appeared to be pepper spray by an unidentified man in downtown Warsaw on Saturday, but escaped without injuries from what police said may have been an anti-Semitic attack.

Schudrich said he was heading to a Sabbath lunch near Warsaw's main synagogue with a group of people when a young man yelled out "Poland for Poles!"

"That's a well-known pre-World War II slogan which basically means 'Jews, get out of Poland,' and I didn't like hearing it, so I approached the gentleman to ask him why he said such things, and his reaction was to punch me in the chest," Schudrich told AP.

"I was going to hit him back, but before I had a chance to hit him he sprayed me with some kind of spray - maybe pepper spray."

Schudrich said his eyes still burned from the spray but that he was otherwise uninjured.

The man, who quickly fled, was being sought by police, said Interior Ministry spokesman Tomasz Sklodowski. An image of the attacker's face was produced with the help of witnesses and distributed to police throughout the city, he said


BTW As I recall the kid was found and arrested after some time - around one week if I am right.




I have always seen our fascists as the most pathetic in Europe with their constant attempts to humilate themselves. Apparently recently one gay activist captured two of them (without fight) and left them in the middle of nowhere afterwards.

They are rivals with our extreme left here - who sucks more.

Really serious competition, but at least there is some cheap entertainment.

[Tribesman]

I have always seen our fascists as the most pathetic in Europe with their constant attempts to humilate themselves.
But how can you see them as pathetic if as Krook says they don't exist ?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

But how can you see them as pathetic if as Krook says they don't exist ?

They don't exist in Poland Tribsey, but Germany, see, we're full of them, just itching to annex liberate Poland.

[cegorach]

Of course they do, otherwise I wouldn't know how much they suck.

Their history is a constant struggle with their own incompetence and stupidity.

A subject of cheap jokes, just like our extreme left, but at least the leftists have more organisations - 10-20 men in each, but still...



And when it comes to the skinhead-nazists they are the proud record breakers
- noone else than one of their leaders tried to brink so many forged signatures when trying to register in presidential elections about 15 years ago,
- noone else than another of their gurus got less votes ever in another presidential elections - see ---


Aleksander Kwaśniewski SLD 6,275,670 35.11
Lech Wałęsa 5,917,328 33.11
Jacek Kuroń UW 1,646,946 9.22
Jan Olszewski RdR 1,225,453 6.86
Waldemar Pawlak PSL 770,417 4.31
Tadeusz Zieliński UP 631,432 3.53
Hanna Gronkiewicz-Waltz 492,628 2.76
Janusz Korwin-Mikke UPR 428,969 2.40
Andrzej Lepper Samoobrona 235,797 1.32
Jan Pietrzak 201,033 1.12
Tadeusz Koźluk 27,259 0.15
Kazimierz Piotrowicz 12,591 0.07
Leszek Bubel 6,825 0.04
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 100.00 %




- one of their candidates (Kononowicz) managed to score a record on Youtube and became a laughing stock nationwide,


and many, many more...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Of course they do, otherwise I wouldn't know how much they suck.

Don't worry, those comments weren't directed at you. :bow:

[cegorach]

Actually I was writing my post while you have posted yours, so no worries.:yes:

[Banquo's Ghost]

Hmm. I have no idea from where this zombie of a thread staggered into the Backroom, but it's brought flies and disease.

Consider this a head shot.

:closed: