Irish in XL

[Eternity]

Hey everyone,

I've been reading these forums regularly, but have just now decided to make a post (especially since everyone here is so friendly ~:) ) . Currently, I'm playing as the Irish in XL, and I'm having a lot of fun, particulary since the unit roster is so interesting. Their units can basically be classified into two groups: powerful melee infantry, or spear throwing units with decent melee capability, and practically everyone has some kind of armor piercing attack. I've fought a few battles with them, and they slice through units like no other faction can :dizzy2: with units like Gael Gaedhil, Gallowglasses, Fianna Eireann, and Sherwood Foresters (since I took Mercia).

Well, I was looking at the javelin-type units, and was wondering what the differences were among them, namely, Kerns (javelin), Bonnachts (heavy spear), and Irish Dartmen (dart). So I opened up the projectile stat file to see how these weapons differ, and found that Javelin seems to be MUCH better than the other two. Here are some important stats according to the file:

AccuracyAccuracyLethalityPowerArmor ModReload TimeJavelin0.721.10.32Dart0.31113Heavy Spear0.2420.33

Here are the descriptions of each stat according to the file:

;Accuracy The accuracy of the projectile. 1 = best accuracy. Lower numbers are more erratic. Must be > 0. Affects ranging in for artillery
;Lethality The base chance of a hit scoring a kill. This can greater than 1 as is multiplied by the base kill chance (by default 18%)
; However if the two multiplied together should not exceed 100%
;Power "The number of hits points damage done to a man or structure. Most men have only 1 hit points, but generals have more"
;Armour Mod The target's armour is multiplied by this value to get the effective armour. Thus 1 = no special armour penetration
;Reload Time The number if animation cycles its takes to reload. Not used by artillery

To put these numbers into perspective:
(on large unit sizes)*(Accuracy)*(Base kill chance)*(Lethality)*(Ammo)
Kerns with javelins: 120*0.7*0.18*2*8 = 242
Bonnacts with heavy spears: 200*0.2*0.18*4*4 = 115
Dartmen with darts: 120*0.3*0.18*1*7 = 45

As you can see, Kerns are twice a lethal as Bonnacts are, and theoretically can kill more than two units of 120 men units!!! Bonnacts are decent, since their Power stat is so high and their offense is excellent (4 charge, 5 attack, 200 men). But the Irish Dartmen seem really bad, their projectile isn't even armor piercing. All three of these units are relatively cheap, with low requirements and low upkeep costs, placing them on the same selection pool... So I was wondering if there was a reason to choose the other two units over Kerns? Thanks ~;p

[macsen rufus]

Darts have longer range than javelins or heavy spears, better to use against lightly/unarmoured units. Bonnachts (throwing spears) have much better armour-piercing abilities than the kerns' javelins, and the melee stats really add to their value. Bonnachts really come into their own when your lines are being charged by knights or other heavily-armoured nasties (put them behind your armoured spear, with skirmish off :2thumbsup: )

Kerns I usually treat as garrison-fodder who are passably effective in battle, but generally prefer to use bonnachts where I have the option.

I really enjoyed the XL Irish campaign, and miss those AP missiles when playing other factions. Just to make it more interesting, I have modded the startpos file to give the Irish a boat (otherwise the AI never does much with them), and also played without training standard archers (as I reckoned the Irish should be restricted the same way they are in VI -- I'll mod that in later when I get around to it :2thumbsup: )

Oh, and welcome to the Org, BTW!

[gunslinger]

Very nice analysis. The Irish were one of the first factions I tried when I got XL. Very tough faction on expert. Good luck!

[Martok]

Welcome to the Org, Eternity! ~:wave: While I've not conducted a true qualitative analysis of those three units per se, my views largely coincide with those of macsen rufus.

The only area where I differ is on my opinion (and the use) of Kerns. Overall, I think they're actually a more cost-effective unit than Bonnachts. While both are good at taking out heavy infantry - particularly those nasty Huscarles one ends up facing sooner or later - Kerns are simply cheaper and easier to produce. Also, I believe they have significantly more ammo than Bonnachts, although I won't claim to know the exact numbers. The Kerns' only real liability is their poor melee stats, but then they're not for close combat anyway. So long as they keep away from the front line, I find that Kerns generally get more kills with their javelins than Bonnachts do with their throwing spears.

Not that I'm disparaging the Bonnies, though; they're definitely a very nice unit to have. I just find that -- all other things being equal -- Kerns are generally a cheaper way to destroy those bloody Huscarles. That is only my own opinion, of course; your mileage may vary. ~:)

[Eternity]

Thanks for the suggestions. Kind of messed up on the chart, the title entries on top should be shifted to the right to align up with the numbers :embarassed: .

I guess I'll use a mix between Bonnacts (for good additional melee support) and Kerns (for pure javelins).

The Irish are quite lacking in ranged and cavalry units, so I'm anticipating trouble when fighting more mobile armies. The only long ranged units I can get are regular archers and Welsh longbowmen (and Sherwood Foresters but they're only 40 men units), while the cavalry units are limited to the poor melee Irish Horsemen and Spanish Jinettes if I captures some of those provinces. Will I have to stick with Armored spearmen backed up by Longbowmen in fights against cavalry dominant armies?

Oh and against Huscarles, it'll probably be similar to when I faced off against eight units of Highclansmen with a four star rebel general with a mixture of my high attack units (i.e. high charge, high attack, armor piercing, somewhat low defense). Approximately 75% of both armies died in less than 1 minute of pure fighting :sweatdrop: .

[Vladimir]

Try using your bonnies as shock troops. Fire your heavy spears then charge the line. I can't remember how much they cost but they'll give your enemy a considerable headache while your gallos or other elite infantry back them up. Your poor calvary should do fine flanking the enemy.

[macsen rufus]

I quite like the Irish Horsemen. Not that I've studied the stats closely, but I reckon they're about the same as hobilars, and the darts are handy. A unit of Irish horse can take a unit of mounted crossbows, usually routing them through missile kills without having to engage in hand-to-hand fighting, then once the missiles are gone they're quite sturdy and fast light cavalry. A bit of valour and tech and they can kick some butt :2thumbsup: The Irish horseman/jinette combo gives you some interesting tactical options too, once you've got some Iberian provinces in your empire.