Another well done for Prime Minister Harper

[Goofball]

I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I really like this guy. His Conservative Party of Canada has been the the first Canadian government in quite some time to stand up (at least symbolically) to China and their constant human rights violations. After a recent scolding from a Chinese diplomat in which Canada was warned (with all the subtlety of a lead pipe) that economic relations and political relations are inextricably linked, Harper basically says "Whatever. China has a huge trade surplus with Canada. You make the call." I love it.

And it's delicious that the Conservatives are turning out to be better champions of human rights than the Liberal Party ever were. Especially since during the last election the Liberals were warning Canadians that the "extreme right wing" (whatever~:rolleyes: ) Conservatives were going to trample all over human rights if they were elected by banning abortion and gay marriage. Neither of which have they attempted.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070209.wchinaharper09/BNStory/National/home


Harper warns China against economic threats

Prime Minister says he won't apologize for standing up for the rights of Canadians abroad, including Huseyin Celil


JEFF SALLOT
Globe and Mail Update

HALIFAX — Prime Minister Stephen Harper warned China today not to threaten Canada on economic issues in the hope of getting his government to back off on human rights criticisms, including the case of Huseyin Celil.
Speaking with reporters in Halifax, Mr. Harper suggested China has more to lose if the economic relationship between the two countries becomes fractured.
"I would point out to any Chinese official that just as a matter of fact, China had a huge trade surplus with this country so it would be in the interest of the Chinese government to make sure any dealings on trade are fair and above board," he said.
Thursday, a senior Chinese official issued a sober warning to the Harper government over its criticism of his country's human-rights policies.
"The economic relationship goes hand in hand with the political relationship," He Yafei, the country's assistant minister of foreign affairs for North America told The Globe and Mail in an interview.
"We need to have a sound political basis of mutual trust for the economic relationship to flourish. That's why we need to work harder to improve mutual trust."
The remarks came as Canada continued to express deep concern over the fate of Mr. Celil, a dual Canadian-Chinese citizen, who is jailed in China.
Mr. Harper was speaking today at a ceremony to rename the Halifax airport for former Nova Scotia Premier Robert L. Stanfield. Mr. Harper won applause from the crowd when he said he makes no apologies for standing up for the rights of Canadians abroad, especially Mr. Celil.
On Thursday in Ottawa, Mr. He issued assurances that Mr. Celil will not be executed, and denied reports that Mr. Celil has been tortured. He added, however, that the Chinese government has no obligation to inform Canadian diplomats of Mr. Celil's next court date because the country does not recognize dual citizenships. Mr. Celil was in court last week accused of terrorist activities, but no Canadian diplomats were present.
Mr. Harper raised the Celil case in a recent meeting with Chinese President Hu Jintao while the two leaders were in Vietnam for a meeting of APEC.
It was the latest in a series of irritants that has included a decision by Secretary of State for Multiculturalism Jason Kenney to meet with the Dalai Lama, accusations that China is spying on Canadian corporations and a delay in talks on a strategic partnership the two countries signed two years ago.
In the interview with The Globe and Mail and CTV, Mr. He said that, although he believes the difficulties are temporary, there are clouds on the horizon.
"I cannot say Canada is squandering [the relationship] now, but in practical terms Canada is lagging behind in its relations with China," he said.
"Trade is growing, but not fast enough. Investment is growing, but not fast enough. The overall relationship has room for improvement."
Without a strong political relationship, long-term investments might suffer, he said.
"People need to have confidence in the country they are going to do business with," he said.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Good for Harper. I'm glad somebody is standing up for Canada. :bow:

[Vladimir]

Yea Canada, good job (it's not often I say that)! I was excited about him when he was elected and maybe he can teach American "conservatives" a thing or two.

Let's see how fast he looses his principles; hopefully it's not for a while.

[lars573]

He never had any. Consider his 180 over Kyoto.

OTTAWA -- Text of a 2002 letter by Stephen Harper to members of his Canadian Alliance party denouncing the Kyoto accord:

Dear Friend,

We're on a roll, folks!

The Canadian Alliance is once again setting the agenda in the House of Commons. Look at what happened in less than two months since Parliament reopened:

We bagged another Liberal cabinet minister when we drove the hapless Lawrence MacAulay to resign for violating the ethics guidelines.
We broke Jean Chretien's chokehold on the House of Commons by getting the election of committee chairs and votes on all private members' bills.
We finally (!) got the Liberals to agree to set up a national registry for sex offenders.
But we can't just relax and declare victory. We're gearing up for the biggest struggle our party has faced since you entrusted me with the leadership. I'm talking about the "battle of Kyoto'' -- our campaign to block the job-killing, economy-destroying Kyoto Accord.

It would take more than one letter to explain what's wrong with Kyoto, but here are a few facts about this so-called "Accord'':

It's based on tentative and contradictory scientific evidence about climate trends.
It focuses on carbon dioxide, which is essential to life, rather than upon pollutants.
Canada is the only country in the world required to make significant cuts in emissions. Third World countries are exempt, the Europeans get credit for shutting down inefficient Soviet-era industries, and no country in the Western hemisphere except Canada is signing.
Implementing Kyoto will cripple the oil and gas industry, which is essential to the economies of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia.
As the effects trickle through other industries, workers and consumers everywhere in Canada will lose. THERE ARE NO CANADIAN WINNERS UNDER THE KYOTO ACCORD.
The only winners will be countries such as Russia, India, and China, from which Canada will have to buy "emissions credits.'' Kyoto is essentially a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nations.
On top of all this, Kyoto will not even reduce greenhouse gases. By encouraging transfer of industrial production to Third World countries where emissions standards are more relaxed, it will almost certainly increase emissions on a global scale.
For a long time, the Canadian Alliance stood virtually alone in opposing the Kyoto Accord, as Bob Mills, our senior environment critic, waged a valiant battle against it. Now, however, allies are stepping forward -- eight of 10 provincial governments, and a broad coalition of businesses across Canada -- to help us fight the "battle of Kyoto.''

Jean Chretien says he will introduce a resolution to ratify Kyoto into Parliament and get it passed before Christmas. We will do everything we can to stop him there, but he might get it passed with the help of the socialists in the NDP and the separatists in the BQ.

But the "battle of Kyoto'' is just beginning. Ratification is merely symbolic; Kyoto will not take effect unless and until it is implemented by legislation. We will go to the wall to stop that legislation and at that point we will be on much stronger procedural ground than in trying to block a mere resolution.

The Reform Party defeated the Charlottetown Accord in an epic struggle in the fall of 1992. Now the Canadian Alliance is leading the battle against the Kyoto Accord!

But we can't do it alone. It will take an army of Canadians to beat Kyoto, just as it did to beat Charlottetown.

We can't stop Kyoto just in Parliament. We need your help at all levels. We need you to inform yourself about Kyoto, to discuss it with your friends and neighbours, and to write protest letters to newspapers and the government.

And, yes, we need your gifts of money. The "battle of Kyoto'' is going to lead directly into the next election. We need your contribution of $500, or $250, or $100, or whatever you can afford, to help us drive the Liberals from power.

Yours truly,

Stephen Harper, MP

Leader of the Opposition

PS: The "battle of Kyoto'' shows why the Canadian Alliance is so important to you and to Canada. All the other federal parties are supporting Kyoto (Liberals, NDP, BQ) or speaking out of both sides of their mouth (Tories). Only the Canadian Alliance is strong and fearless enough to block dangerous and destructive schemes like the Charlottetown Accord and the Kyoto Accord.

This is a fundraising letter from 2002. Really blasts Kyoto, no. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070130/kyoto_letter_text_070130/20070130/ Now that polls have shown that being green will get votes he's all for Kyoto. And the Liberals are ever so politely holding his toes to the fire over it. The Traitors, the Liberals, and the NDP support Kyoto.

[Xiahou]

Now if only the US could get a real conservative leader who doesn't become a big government liberal once he's in office. :help:

[Beirut]

There are many aspects of Harper I like, but his conduct during the conflict last year between Israel and Lebanon was unforgivable.

He backed everything Israel did, from destroying Lebanon from top to bottom, to blaming the Canadians killed by Israel for their own demise. Harper sold us out, he put foreign interests ahead of Canadian lives and I'll never vote Conservative as long as he's there. The bottom line is that when Canadian civilians and UN Peacekeepers are being killed, he'll turn his back and walk away. Unforgivable.

It's a shame, really. I want to like the guy, but I can't get past what he did.

(Sorry. Don't mean to OT your thread Goofball.)

[Vladimir]

There are many aspects of Harper I like, but his conduct during the conflict last year between Israel and Lebanon was unforgivable.

He backed everything Israel did, from destroying Lebanon from top to bottom, to blaming the Canadians killed by Israel for their own demise. Harper sold us out, he put foreign interests ahead of Canadian lives and I'll never vote Conservative as long as he's there. The bottom line is that when Canadian civilians and UN Peacekeepers are being killed, he'll turn his back and walk away. Unforgivable.

It's a shame, really. I want to like the guy, but I can't get past what he did.

(Sorry. Don't mean to OT your thread Goofball.)

Oh yes, poor Lebanon. This has already been discussed and I can't see the state of Lebanon as a victim. As to the poor Canadians, these were what; tourists, peacekeepers, fool peace activists that like to throw themselves in front of bulldozers? It seems like you believe that they were intentionally targeted and you feel that you're owed something. Blame the Hezbollah that were using the observation post as a launching site. Modern technology decreases the probability of friendly fire deaths but doesn't eliminate it.

I think what you're failing to realize was that these "foreign interests" were perceived to be Canadian foreign interests, even if you don't feel that they are. Besides, that's a rather narrow-minded and fickle reason for branding all members of his political party. Don't tell me that you're a single issue, or single incident, voter.

[lars573]

Actually many of those Canadians in Lebannon were persons with dual citizenship. Who were effectively Lebannese. Plus our usual position on middle eastern matters is to condem Israel for actions like what it did to Lebannon. And support the Arabs.

Plus the Lebannon reaction, and his flip flop over Kyoto is a pattern of behavior that makes him look to those who may swing that he hasn't got the best interests of all of Canada at heart, and that he just want to keep his lips firmly appressed to GW Bushes buttocks.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Sounds like some guy called Tony, can't remember what his job is.

[Pannonian]

Sounds like some guy called Tony, can't remember what his job is.
Tender of the Royal Backside.

[Tribesman]

Oh yes, poor Lebanon. This has already been discussed and I can't see the state of Lebanon as a victim. As to the poor Canadians, these were what; tourists, peacekeepers, fool peace activists that like to throw themselves in front of bulldozers? It seems like you believe that they were intentionally targeted and you feel that you're owed something. Blame the Hezbollah that were using the observation post as a launching site. Modern technology decreases the probability of friendly fire deaths but doesn't eliminate it.

Why does the word "muppet" spring to mind~:rolleyes:

[Vladimir]

Tender of the Royal Backside.

:laugh4: Hah! Tender Royal Backside!

Sorry.

:hide:

[Beirut]

Don't tell me that you're a single issue, or single incident, voter.

Depends on the issue and the incident.

If the Prime Minister of my country does not rise to the defence of his own people when they are being killed then what use is he?

If he'd sell us out there, he'd sell us out anywhere.

[Vladimir]

Depends on the issue and the incident.

If the Prime Minister of my country does not rise to the defence of his own people when they are being killed then what use is he?

If he'd sell us out there, he'd sell us out anywhere.

So you're implying that Canadians don’t die overseas except in Lebanon? :inquisitive: Should he speak out against every country where your fellow citizens are killed? Or do you believe that they were specifically targeted in this incident?

As a Prime Minister, he seems genuinely concerned for the safety, security, and prosperity of the entire country. A recent informal poll (Recent: 5 minutes ago. Informal: Me :grin: ) shows that Canadians spend at least 51% of their time trying to differentiate themselves from Americans. The fact that Harper is addressing the threat posed by other countries like China and organizations like Hezbollah means that he IS rising to your defense.

Of course, this is largely speculation. It's amazing how little I knew of PM Blair before .orgers started posting articles about him. They offer a very different perspective than what I'm used to.

Look at the title again: Harper warns China against economic threats
Prime Minister says he won't apologize for standing up for the rights of Canadians abroad, including Huseyin Celil

[Tribesman]

Or do you believe that they were specifically targeted in this incident?
:dizzy2:
cor thats a hard one isn't it .
If you are in a well known well marked position and someone is shooting directly at you you may assume that that there is a chance that you are being specifically targeted .
If you tell them officially at least 14 times that they are shooting at you and would they please be kind enough to stop but they don't then it is pretty certain that they are being specifically targetted .
If there is no one else in the vicinity that they could possibly be aiming at but missing and hitting you instead then its damn sure that its an absolute certainty that you are being specifically targeted .

[Marshal Murat]

I wish President Bush was more like that...
Then I'd support him, but you know, it's to late.

But hey! Like I know Canadian politics!

[Beirut]

So you're implying that Canadians don’t die overseas except in Lebanon? :inquisitive:

Yes. You are entirely correct. No Canadian has ever died anywhere but in Canada. I'm glad there are two of us who understand that now.


Should he speak out against every country where your fellow citizens are killed?

Yes.


Or do you believe that they were specifically targeted in this incident?
[/B]

Yes.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Beirut, what did the old administration do when the Iranian-Canadian reporter was killed by the state of Iran?

And, are there any Israeli-Canadians, or Canadian citizens living in Israel?

CR

[Beirut]

Beirut, what did the old administration do when the Iranian-Canadian reporter was killed by the state of Iran?

Not enough.


And, are there any Israeli-Canadians, or Canadian citizens living in Israel?

CR

Yes.

[Goofball]

There are many aspects of Harper I like, but his conduct during the conflict last year between Israel and Lebanon was unforgivable.

He backed everything Israel did, from destroying Lebanon from top to bottom, to blaming the Canadians killed by Israel for their own demise. Harper sold us out, he put foreign interests ahead of Canadian lives and I'll never vote Conservative as long as he's there. The bottom line is that when Canadian civilians and UN Peacekeepers are being killed, he'll turn his back and walk away. Unforgivable.

It's a shame, really. I want to like the guy, but I can't get past what he did.

(Sorry. Don't mean to OT your thread Goofball.)

No problem. You have pointed out something else I like about Harper: he has abondoned the Liberals' policy of sucking up to Arab terrorists while scolding Israel for defending itself.

That's actually at the top of my "well done" list.

[Xiahou]

No problem. You have pointed out something else I like about Harper: he has abondoned the Liberals' policy of sucking up to Arab terrorists while scolding Israel for defending itself.

That's actually at the top of my "well done" list.Zing!:clown:
Yup, yet another good move by Harper. :bow:

[Tribesman]

No problem. You have pointed out something else I like about Harper: he has abondoned the Liberals' policy of sucking up to Arab terrorists while scolding Israel for defending itself.

How is killing Canadian civilians or Canadian peacekeepers defending itself ?
Scold people when they are wrong be they arab terrorists or Isreali soldiers .
If he cannot do both then he is better saying nohing at all .

[Beirut]

No problem. You have pointed out something else I like about Harper: he has abondoned the Liberals' policy of sucking up to Arab terrorists while scolding Israel for defending itself.

That's actually at the top of my "well done" list.

I am of the opinion that all who kill innocent people, whether under the guise of elected government, freedom fighter, or terrorist, are worthy of scolding.

One thing I do like about Harper is his willingness to fly the flag up north. The Liberals were total wimps about this.

[Goofball]

How is killing Canadian civilians or Canadian peacekeepers defending itself ?

You'll have to bring me up to speed. Which Canadian citizens and/or Canadian Peacekeepers did Israel kill?


Scold people when they are wrong be they arab terrorists or Isreali soldiers .
If he cannot do both then he is better saying nohing at all .

I agree. But it is Mr. Harper's opinion that in the recent conflict between Israel and Lebanon that Israel was acting within its rights and defending itself.

I happen to agree with him.

I realize that both you and Beirut disagree, and I respect that.

Another thing I like about Harper is that he led the way and had Canada be the first nation in the world to cut off aid when terrorists were elected as the government in Palestine.

Unfortunately, none of these moves have won him any political points in Canada, where we tend to be anti-Israel. But knowing that makes me like him even more.

[Goofball]

Actually many of those Canadians in Lebannon were persons with dual citizenship. Who were effectively Lebannese. Plus our usual position on middle eastern matters is to condem Israel for actions like what it did to Lebannon. And support the Arabs.

Plus the Lebannon reaction, and his flip flop over Kyoto is a pattern of behavior that makes him look to those who may swing that he hasn't got the best interests of all of Canada at heart, and that he just want to keep his lips firmly appressed to GW Bushes buttocks.

I've never understood why Canadians choose to believe that.

Yes, I know that the Liberals tried to sell that line of bunk as part of a desperate attempt to hang on to power at the last election, but there has not been one shred of evidence to support it.

The problem is that Chrétien went out of his way to offend the Americans at every turn, just so that he could say "See dat everyone? I ham a good Canadien who don't let de Americain tell me what to do, câlice tabarnac!" It accomplished nothing other that to piss off our largest trading partner and make it virtually impossible to negotiate through any trade disputes (i.e. softwood lumber). But now Canadians seem to have it in their heads that if our Prime Minister does anything short of farting directly in the face of the President, then he might as well be offering to fellate him.

Harper has been polite but firm in his dealings with the Americans, neither lapdog nor ruffian. What is the problem?

[Vuk]

Canada and Germany are the two most messed up places in the world.

[Stig]

Canada and Germany are the two most messed up places in the world.
Ever been to Germany, if one thing isn't messed up it's Germany and the Germans

[Ser Clegane]

Canada and Germany are the two most messed up places in the world.
Care to expand on that?
Your statement as such does not contribute much to the thread and rather looks like trolling...

[Vuk]

I am saying that Canada as a country is completely messed up (similar to Germany). Their policies, their culture, their citizens in a large part (or at least everyone I've ever met or heard of...except Shania Twain, she's hot:D). A poster commented on the U.S. being able to "learn from Canada", and I was saying that there is nothing good we could learn from that country. I think the U.S. should be a hell of a lot more strict with China when it comes to trade and FIO, but should stick our nose out of their domestic affairs. It is none of our business.

[Stig]

(similar to Germany)

Care to expand on that?
:bounce:

[Ser Clegane]

I am saying that Canada as a country is completely messed up (similar to Germany).
Again - if you have something to add to the topic of the thread by perhaps expanding on your starement, please do so.

If you just intend to troll, please stay out of this thread.

[Tribesman]

You'll have to bring me up to speed. Which Canadian citizens and/or Canadian Peacekeepers did Israel kill?

Goofball , quick question , you were in the Canadian military weren't you ? which regiment ?
oh and the civilians , it was 7 members of one family from Montreal 4 of them were kids , plus another 6 from the family wounded , but then again one of those 6 later died from the wounds so that makes 8 Canadian civilians killed by the IDF .
But hey lets be fair , they launched their bombing raids on the "assumption" that there are no civilians in any part of Lebanon that they are going to attack . Which is a bloody stupid assumption when you bomb towns and cities full of people .

[Vuk]

Again - if you have something to add to the topic of the thread by perhaps expanding on your starement, please do so.

If you just intend to troll, please stay out of this thread.

I already told you why I made the statement and in what context it applied to the thread. Maybe you should read a post before you mouth off at someone.

[Stig]

I already told you why I made the statement and in what context it applied to the thread. Maybe you should read a post before you mouth off at someone.
Maybe you shouldn't talk rubbish, you still didn't explain yourselves

[Goofball]

Goofball , quick question , you were in the Canadian military weren't you ? which regiment ?

When I was regular force I was with 3rd Battalion PPCLI. Now I am with a reserve regiment that I won't name, because given the small size of the unit, and even smaller size if its officer corps, it would be very easy for people to figure out who I am IRL.


oh and the civilians , it was 7 members of one family from Montreal 4 of them were kids , plus another 6 from the family wounded , but then again one of those 6 later died from the wounds so that makes 8 Canadian civilians killed by the IDF .
But hey lets be fair , they launched their bombing raids on the "assumption" that there are no civilians in any part of Lebanon that they are going to attack . Which is a bloody stupid assumption when you bomb towns and cities full of people .

Without seeing a link, I am assuming that this "Canadian" family "from Montreal" is much like the rest of the roughly 70,000 "Canadians" living in Lebanon: they lived in Canada only long enough to receive citizenship and have their children be born Canadian, then returned to Lebanon. Now they pay no Canadian taxes and contribute nothing to Canada, often speak neither English nor French, but expect Canada to come running with our military, our transportation, our international goodwill, and our social safety net whenever living in a dangerous, unstable place like Lebanon becomes too uncomfortable for them.

But don't get me wrong, I don't defend Israel because the civilians they killed were not "really" Canadians, I defend them because the civilian deaths were not the goal of Israel. The goal was the destruction of infrastructure that was aiding the terrorists that were attacking Israeli citizens. The civilians were simply unfortunate collateral damage. I realize that sounds rather cold, but civilians die in wars.

[Tribesman]

What a coincidence Princess Patricias Canadian Light Infantry .I could never have guessed if you hadn't mentioned it before~;) .
You didn't come across the late Major Kraedner when you were in did you ?Perhaps when you were wearing one of them blue hat thingies.


Without seeing a link, I am assuming that this "Canadian" family "from Montreal" is much like the rest of the roughly 70,000 "Canadians" living in Lebanon: they lived in Canada only long enough to receive citizenship and have their children be born Canadian, then returned to Lebanon. Now they pay no Canadian taxes and contribute nothing to Canada, often speak neither English nor French, but expect Canada to come running with our military, our transportation, our international goodwill, and our social safety net whenever living in a dangerous, unstable place like Lebanon becomes too uncomfortable for them.

Thats a rather large assumption to make :yes: would you like a link or can you find one yourself , it was a rather big story at the time , a wonderful family holiday ending in tragedy type of thing , always good for a write up .~;)

[Goofball]

What a coincidence Princess Patricias Canadian Light Infantry .I could never have guessed if you hadn't mentioned it before~;) .
You didn't come across the late Major Kraedner when you were in did you ?Perhaps when you were wearing one of them blue hat thingies.

Tribesman, I know you think you are being sly and/or droll here, but I respectfully disagree. If you are referring to the UN observers that were killed by an Israeli bomb in southern Lebanon, then please just say so. If you are also saying that I should be aware of it because this Major Kraedner you mentioned was a Patricia, then again, please just say so, or better yet, post a link. If he was, then it will be the first I have heard of it. I have googled that name and not a single article came up. I have also searched generally for news about the incident, and while I found articles on CNN, BBC and MSNBC, among others, none of them mentioned that name.

At any rate, no, I didn't know the major.

And from what I have read of the bombing, I believe one of two things to be the case:

Either:

1) It was an accident, as Israel claims, or

2) It was a bad decision made by a lower level field commander who will now never command any unit above the status of "latrine maintenance company"

I do not believe that the Israeli government deliberately targeted a UN outpost.



Without seeing a link, I am assuming that this "Canadian" family "from Montreal" is much like the rest of the roughly 70,000 "Canadians" living in Lebanon: they lived in Canada only long enough to receive citizenship and have their children be born Canadian, then returned to Lebanon. Now they pay no Canadian taxes and contribute nothing to Canada, often speak neither English nor French, but expect Canada to come running with our military, our transportation, our international goodwill, and our social safety net whenever living in a dangerous, unstable place like Lebanon becomes too uncomfortable for them.

But don't get me wrong, I don't defend Israel because the civilians they killed were not "really" Canadians, I defend them because the civilian deaths were not the goal of Israel. The goal was the destruction of infrastructure that was aiding the terrorists that were attacking Israeli citizens. The civilians were simply unfortunate collateral damage. I realize that sounds rather cold, but civilians die in wars.Thats a rather large assumption to make :yes: would you like a link or can you find one yourself , it was a rather big story at the time , a wonderful family holiday ending in tragedy type of thing , always good for a write up .~;)

Yes, please do post a link. That's how it works in here, you see. If you want to make specific reference to an event and discuss the facts of the case, it's polite to post a link. Otherwise, others are left having to make assumptions about what you are referring to.

[Beirut]

What a coincidence Princess Patricias Canadian Light Infantry .I could never have guessed if you hadn't mentioned it before~;) .
You didn't come across the late Major Kraedner when you were in did you ?Perhaps when you were wearing one of them blue hat thingies.



The PPCLI, sir, are one of our most respected regiments with a long and distinguished history. And that "blue hat thingy" is the sign of a a United Nations Peacekeeper. In our country, UN Peacekeepers are regarded as patriots and heroes of the highest order.

I might disagree with Goofball on more than one issue, but never doubt that if I meet him in a bar, it will be me buying the drinks.

[Tribesman]

Tribesman, I know you think you are being sly and/or droll here, but I respectfully disagree. If you are referring to the UN observers that were killed by an Israeli bomb in southern Lebanon, then please just say so. If you are also saying that I should be aware of it because this Major Kraedner you mentioned was a Patricia, then again, please just say so, or better yet, post a link. If he was, then it will be the first I have heard of it. I have googled that name and not a single article came up. I have also searched generally for news about the incident, and while I found articles on CNN, BBC and MSNBC, among others, none of them mentioned that name.

Hmmmm sly or droll . I think it was what is called a loaded question ,as in I remember you saying you were in the Patricias, I remember you saying that you had served with the UN and I remembered that this Canadian who was killed in Lebanon was a Patricia who was serving with the UN .

Instead of searching generally and getting press articles , have you ever condidered just going to the websites of those involved in the incidents ie. UNFIL , UNTSO , IDF ? . It is a lot quicker .
Not as quick as me providing a link , but where would be the fun in that .


I might disagree with Goofball on more than one issue, but never doubt that if I meet him in a bar, it will be me buying the drinks.
I hope you are not implying that Goof is shy when it comes to buying a round ~;)

[Beirut]

I hope you are not implying that Goof is shy when it comes to buying a round ~;)

Shy? He's a blistering cheapskate!

And I'd still be happy to buy him a drink. :canada:

[Hosakawa Tito]

Frugal sounds better. Free beer tastes better.~:cheers: