Faction re-emergence in Russia

[Banquo's Ghost]

Isn't it always the same (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6349287.stm)?

Your empire is pfaffing about in those far-off Muslim provinces, getting bogged down by rebellions and penalties for being over-armoured, and just when you don't need it a long-vanquished foe pops up on your weak flank as belligerent as ever? What's worse, you just know they are going to ally with that juicy province you've been planning to attack, just at the most damaging time when no-one is interested in joining your Crusade and your only ally is led by a soon-to-be-replaced Unhinged Loon with more vices than a plumber's workshop.

Poor game design, if you ask me. Either that, or one shouldn't play on Very Hard till one's mastered the basics.

Putin attacks 'very dangerous' US

Mr Putin said the US overstepped its borders in every way

Russian President Vladimir Putin has attacked the United States for what he said was its "almost uncontained" use of force around the world.

America's "very dangerous" approach to global relations was fuelling a nuclear arms race, he told a security summit.

Correspondents say the strident speech may signal a more assertive Russia.

Earlier German chancellor Angela Merkel told the delegates in Munich that the international community was determined to stop Iran getting nuclear weapons.

Iranian nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani is among delegates at the conference.

The conference, founded in 1962, has become an annual opportunity for world leaders to discuss the most pressing issues of the day.

Mr Putin told senior security officials from around the world that nations were "witnessing an almost uncontained hyper use of force in international relations".

"One state, the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way," the Russian president said.

"This is very dangerous. Nobody feels secure anymore because nobody can hide behind international law," he said, speaking through a translator.

"This is nourishing an arms race with the desire of countries to get nuclear weapons."

'Power, not weapons'

BBC defence and security correspondent Rob Watson, in Munich, said Mr Putin's speech was a strident performance.

It may well be remembered as a turning point in international relations and a sign of a more assertive Russia, our correspondent says.

Western leaders in the audience, including Mrs Merkel, looked decidedly glum-faced when President Putin had finished, our correspondent adds.

Earlier, Mrs Merkel told delegates there was "no way around" the need for Tehran to accept demands from the UN and nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

"What we are talking about here is a very, very sensitive technology, and for that reason we need a high degree of transparency, which Iran has failed to provide, and if Iran does not do so then the alternative for Iran is to slip further into isolation," she said.

Mr Larijani was set to tell delegates that Iran wants nuclear power, not nuclear weapons.

"We believe the Iranian nuclear dossier is resolvable by negotiation," Mr Larijani was quoted by Reuters news agency as saying on the sidelines of the conference.

European diplomats are hoping to hold informal talks with Mr Larijani at the two-day summit.

It would be their first meeting since the collapse of talks last year and the imposition of limited UN sanctions on Tehran for its failure to stop the enrichment of uranium.

On Friday, the IAEA said it had frozen about half of technical aid projects involving Iran.

It said the move was to comply with UN sanctions imposed on Tehran late last year over its refusal to halt uranium enrichment.

An IAEA report said 22 technical aid projects involving Iran had been suspended to comply with the UN sanctions, which call for an end to programmes that could be exploited by Iran to develop nuclear weapons.

The IAEA gives technical aid to dozens of countries on the peaceful use of nuclear energy in fields such as medicine, agriculture and power generation.

[Strike For The South]

Ok Russia, stop us.

[macsen rufus]

On the plus side the re-emerging faction has a restricted cash-flow, a couple of stacks of out-dated units headed up by generals seriously lacking in loyalty, and a bunch of agents going ape all over the map. Should be over by Xmas :beam:

[cegorach]

Putin is once again playing the old card of 'evil -enemies-* trying to attack Holy Russia' - nothing has changed, but who treats those words of 'wisdom' seriously now ?



* - add the name of the enemy here - Livonians, Mongols, Lithuanians, Poles, Cossacks, Swedes, French, Germans, Japanese, Austrians, Chinese, Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Georgians, Swiss (no mistake Swiss !), Vatican, Americans, British, Jewish etc

[Vladimir]

Well at least isn't the Pope :shrug: .

[Tribesman]

Ok Russia, stop us.

Thet don't have to , the Iranians have already got you bogged down in the mire .


Banquo , nice bit of writing there , but could you try and improve it by suggesting that you might possibly be ever so slightly surprised by events . ~;)

[Hosakawa Tito]

Time to deploy the Royal Food Taster I guess.Start with the pretzels...

[ajaxfetish]

* - add the name of the enemy here - Livonians, Mongols, Lithuanians, Poles, Cossacks, Swedes, French, Germans, Japanese, Austrians, Chinese, Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Georgians, Swiss (no mistake Swiss !), Vatican, Americans, British, Jewish etc
Come now, cegorach. Don't forget the Turks of all people!

Ajax

[Don Corleone]

I wonder if George can still gaze deeply into Vladmir's eyes and see a spirit of kinship, a bond, a trust there... :dizzy2:

Mark my words, the USA and Russia will be in open hostilities within 10 years. The engagement will be in a limited setting and ultimately meaningless (think Vietnam ala 1970 or Afghanistan ala 1983). China, being way too smart to get into it, will sit back and make a fortune selling to both sides, then if one side ever does get the upper hand, will sweep in and knock both into the stone age.

Ni hao! Hun gao shin jian dao ni! :bow:

[Vladimir]

I wonder if George can still gaze deeply into Vladmir's eyes and see a spirit of kinship, a bond, a trust there... :dizzy2:


I had a class taught by a Russian immigrant that used that same line several times, with variations; he sold it so well :laugh4: .

[SwordsMaster]

Putin is once again playing the old card of 'evil -enemies-* trying to attack Holy Russia' - nothing has changed, but who treats those words of 'wisdom' seriously now ?



* - add the name of the enemy here - Livonians, Mongols, Lithuanians, Poles, Cossacks, Swedes, French, Germans, Japanese, Austrians, Chinese, Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Georgians, Swiss (no mistake Swiss !), Vatican, Americans, British, Jewish etc

Oh, please. And who doesn't play that card? What is the US doing, exactly?

[Azi Tohak]

Putin: Therefore, since the US is evil, m'kay, I demand we reinstate the brilliant social plan known as Communism, since that worked so well for seventy years to stop the barbarian who is sort-of-but-not-really at our gate.

I hate Putin. I really hate Putin.

Azi

[BDC]

How is Russia going to have a war with the USA? It's just not possible. They have no armies, weapons, organisation, and all their money is either in the hands of individuals (who'll be out of there to Europe within minutes) or in oil, which is worthless if no one trusts you enough to buy it.

What will they do? Send tens of thousands of unarmed, untrained, unmotivated conscripts at American tanks? America could just set up a desk giving out visas and free vodka and solve the problem immediately.

[Don Corleone]

How is Russia going to have a war with the USA? It's just not possible. They have no armies, weapons, organisation, and all their money is either in the hands of individuals (who'll be out of there to Europe within minutes) or in oil, which is worthless if no one trusts you enough to buy it.

What will they do? Send tens of thousands of unarmed, untrained, unmotivated conscripts at American tanks? America could just set up a desk giving out visas and free vodka and solve the problem immediately.

You don't really believe that, do you? I can't speak of ground-based army forces, I'd have to defer to somebody with more knowledge such as Redleg.

But when it comes to their Navy, they've increased spending on their nuclear submarine fleet over the past 15 years. Hate to break it to you, a disarmed, pacifistic Russia exists in Putin's PR spins only.

[BDC]

You don't really believe that, do you? I can't speak of ground-based army forces, I'd have to defer to somebody with more knowledge such as Redleg.

But when it comes to their Navy, they've increased spending on their nuclear submarine fleet over the past 15 years. Hate to break it to you, a disarmed, pacifistic Russia exists in Putin's PR spins only.
Great, so they can nuke America. Which they have been able to do for the last 50 years anyway. Nuclear subs can't really do much else.

Besides, one attack and no one buys more oil. No oil means no money, meaning no Russian anything.

[cegorach]

Oh, please. And who doesn't play that card? What is the US doing, exactly?


Hate to say so, but USA is usually quite right when they say that - but when Iran, Russia, Syria, Belorus or the 'heaven on earth' ( N.Korea) use such accusations it is pretty funny.:laugh4:

[Brenus]

Think about the Russian’s point of view: Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Georgia and others, all want to be best US allies and vassals. Look your (US) reaction with Ortega and Chavez (and Peruvian) elections, and the blockade of Cuba… During 20 years, the Russian's point of view was at best ignored (former Yugoslavia, for ex). At worst disdained. And to call to Mother Russia, well what did exactly G. W. Bush before to go to war? Do you remember when to criticise his politic was just an act of treachery?
And what Putin said? US intervened out of their borders, without any consideration of International Laws and don’t give a s…. about international (or so-called) opinion. Nothing of this can be denied, really. It can be contested, but the reality is the US does what it wants…
Now, Putin is a precedent speech, I think in the Douma, told the Russian Representatives when in the mean time Russia was dismantling its nuclear weapons, the US launched the new Star War Programme… That the Bush administration cancelled a succession of International Treaties etc… It can’t be denied…
I even remember him saying “well done”. Putin is playing for internal politic of Russian Pride… And He reminds to the Russians that 20 years ago, they were a Power. And when I went in Russia, that is what the Russians resented the most, this lost of this feeling, to be respected because big armies.

“How is Russia going to have a war with the USA? It's just not possible. They have no armies, weapons, organisation, and all their money is either in the hands of individuals (who'll be out of there to Europe within minutes) or in oil, which is worthless if no one trusts you enough to buy it.”

”What will they do? Send tens of thousands of unarmed, untrained, unmotivated conscripts at American tanks? America could just set up a desk giving out visas and free vodka and solve the problem immediately.” Where the h… did you picked this? I don’t know the Conscripts’ motivation, but untrained? The Russians are actually succeeding in Chechnya what the US is failing to do in Iraq… It is not a Garden Party, and methods are questionable, but they broke the Chechen rebellion… It is amazing (and amusing) how all the potential enemies of Russia always under-estimate the Russians until too late…
During Eltsin’s period, what you are saying was right. But Putin gave back to Russia its pride, and I won’t bet on a Russian defeat if attacked.

And guys, your Abrahams are far to be so good… I am not any more really informed about Russian tanks but history tends to prove that the Russians always produce good tanks and planes…

“Besides, one attack and no one buys more oil. No oil means no money, meaning no Russian anything.”: Yep, we will buy oil to Chavez or Iran… Better. Did you follow the problem with Gazprom, when the Russian were near to cut the pipeline to Europe? Panic!!!!

I think the title is actually good: A faction re-emerged, and we won’t like it…

[BDC]

I'm sure if America had no issues with killing civilians then they would be 'achieving' as much in Iraq as in Chechnia. Not that Russia has sorted that out really at all, despite brutality on a large scale.

Russia has never really been the threat it claimed to be. It has always been a bluff. Not to say it didn't have loads of nukes and big armies, but they were never as powerful as the Russian gov would have liked everyone to think.

More to the point, Russia's old sphere of influence is now thoroughly under the EU's boot, and any sort of industrial muscle it once had is gone.

There is only so much oil, it runs out.

[CrossLOPER]

I'm sure if America had no issues with killing civilians then they would be 'achieving' as much in Iraq as in Chechnia.
Right...

[ChewieTobbacca]

Whoever said the Russian military was weak: WRONG WRONG WRONG!

They are in the current phase of adding more than 31 new warships to the Navy as well as improving their army units. The military-industrial complex is what has kept Russia's economy afloat and now they are reaping the profits with a large surplus and lots of money available. In fact, MiG and Sukhoi are currently jointly working on the PAK FA, the new 5th generation fighter for Russia which is scheduled to be flown first within a year. Yes, a rival to the F-22. In fact, Russia and India are also collaborating on another 5th-gen fighter to fill the same role as the JSF/F-35. Furthermore, current Russian aviation, in the form of the modernized versions of the MiG-29/35 and the derivatives of the Su-27 Flanker (such as the Su30,33,35, etc.) are superior fighters to the F-15C and F-16, which though being phased out, are still our frontline fighter planes. Then, the fact that they still have a huge nuke stockpile means they will still be a top player in the world.

[The Wizard]

I'll put it simply.

Our old KGB homie had a bout of strong nostalgia.

'Nuff said.

ChewieTobacca: One word: morale. The Russian army of today is so horribly managed, led and controlled that the average soldier has absolutely no motivation whatsoever to serve his country. It's a textbook example of how conscription can **** up in the most horrible way.

This isn't the Red Army. This is a shadow of its former self. Perhaps on its way back, but doing so with baby steps.

Also, that PAK-FA? India finally got Putin to develop it with them in January or early February when he visited New Delhi. In return, HAL does not get to develop the indigenous Medium Combat Aircraft. Pity.

[ShadeHonestus]

I'm sure if America had no issues with killing civilians then they would be 'achieving' as much in Iraq as in Chechnia. Not that Russia has sorted that out really at all, despite brutality on a large scale.

Excellent point, the two have totally different rules of engagement. Hell, domestically the police have totally different rules of engagement an unarmed suspect can get shot 40 times in NYC and its called an anamoly and a crime, in Russia thats called procedure.

People never accept the fact that the U.S. military is in a region where forever "might made right" and the only person you trust to protect you are those willing to do so by unrelenting, unleashed might. There is no trust in the rule of Law protected by peace there has only been the rule of one protected by his murders. In the middle of this is a U.S. military with rules of engagement that in comparison have them trying to kill with kindness.

An Iraq war veteran told me this, "Its like putting you in front of a firing squad with a water pistol and saying you can only shoot when fired upon." He did go on to say that despite this feeling, its the only way to maintain the principle in our mission and that the contradiction is what has to be overcome to have success.

[cegorach]

Acccording to my sources Russia is now planning to spent 190 billion dollars for weaponry in time of... 10 years.

Is that really so much ?:inquisitive:

[cegorach]

The ultimate comment is here:laugh4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIRT7HWEXnA