Multiplayer Campaign *readme*

[Dead_Like_Me]

Multiplayer Campaign and how could it work perfect online :

Well first the CA must learn from the creators of civ in all the aspects of how Multiplayer runs.

General :

First of all Internet / Lan lobbies will get new options :

* list of games now could be categorized for - all
campaign
custom
quick / ladder

*also game lobby should include a mini massanger for each player that when
he is offline and if given a massage he will see it when he reconnects.
( this must be when the one who massaged it is online as well )

custom games should be as i said in the last post divided to two details in
post 75#.

when choosing campaign map for example the player could join :
* fresh games.
* started games.
when looking on the campaign MP servers to the player there will be this info visible : game speed , started game or not , ping , map* , players max , players in game , which turn is the game in , hosts name , game's name
and whether the host can kick and if there is option to play battles.

**one of the things that I wish that CA will offer support in is in custom mapping. giving players the option of map editor to historical battles , custom battles and campaign map will help much to keep the mp community.
CA should know that and learn from relic and so on...
also when I meant map here I meant whether its a custom Campaign map or the normal campaign map. I guess if CA will offer tools we will see more maps like Sicily that was Created for old RTW. and with campaign map on Multiplayer we will see a lot of sharing maps :)**

Hosts will have this options when starting the game this options will only be done before the campaign starts and most of them couldn't be changed :

* Allow players to lock their faction ( those who played Civ 4 know this one )
All passwords will be visible to game creator and he could remove them if he
Don't the player would come back ( the purpose of locking factions is to
block from other factions replace you and you want to leave the game for a
while but come back later to continue.
* game speed - also known as time limit per turn. though this game cant be
played as fast as Civ 4 the game still needs to allow time limits per turn
this option should be like in civ 4 when in more advanced turns the time
limit will grow. ( special minimized system should be made that when your
turn starts you will get alerts ) players should be able to put them selfs
on AFK which will give them a small plus time to their turn.
* Hosts can kick or cant needs to be ticked before game.
* which map the host choose
* when starting the game the host can start with a full hand of players or
with just a few and give the AI to control the other factions.
the host should choose if he wishes to lock AI which means only factions
that started as humans will be able to replaced by humans. or that all
factions that started in the game as AI could be replaced as humans as well
the host can chose to play a campaign with less factions in that case all
that faction's starting cities will be rebel cities.
* allow battles or not its host decision.
* AI difficulty level.
* papal elections and and excommunications crusades and jihads all those
should be the players chose if to put them or not ( in case there would be
a similar voting system to orthodox and Muslim factions that this might be
changed )
* unit size.
* Shot / long campaign.

Campaign duration

- After starting a game there would be an option to save it both to players
and host this is to enable players to resume games in other times.
when re-hosting a game by one of the players but without the host
the hosts name will appear near the games name ( or something like that )

- When players leave game they will be auto replaced by AI.
other players outside a game can pre-join game by doing so when one
leaves the game and a faction clears the the pre-joiner will get a notice.
and if his game is minimized then he will be given an alert as well.

- A player that wishes to make a stop and lock his faction for this
could see a log of events that happened to his faction while he was gone
such as battles diplomacy and so on...
players could access their log at any time.

- Diplomacy between players will be accessed at the moment the diplomat
scroll appears not like the hot seat system.

- guilds page should be added.

Battles

-While a battle is occur between 2 or more players the game will give this options :
* save the game.
* play battle / watch battle for those who don't play in it.
* autosolve.
* retreat.
* change unit size*.
if the battle includes ally players they will get a massage for their own army.
for playing the battle / autoresolve all ally players should press the the option.
* for big battles to prevent massive lags *

- If players except battle in the battle window if some one have two or more
large armies and he can control only one he can have the option to chat and
allow other player in the campaign to lead his army instead of AI.
( replacing players will only play the battle and cant retreat before battle ).

- When a battle is played the other players will get two special options :
* Watch the battle.
* Special minimized option which will give then alert sounds when the battles
is over.

Aftermath

- When a faction is destroyed the player will be given the option to lock his
place so he could rejoin the game even if it is full to just spec it.

- A map video should be added like in Civ :D that will show the turn just in the
map.

- Winner gets rank :) like in ladder ( i wish ).

P.S
when bribing an army with or without a noble there should be at least two options , one is the already exists bribe and the other one should be before battle for example the army accept the bribe and when an ally/or his factions army/city near him is attacked the army will not fight / join the battle as an ally to the enemy who bribed him that way nobles with loyalty will be more
effective in game.

note - its already in wishlist , but i did wanted opinion :D

[Lusted]

**one of the things that I wish that CA will offer support in is in custom mapping. giving players the option of map editor to historical battles , custom battles and campaign map will help much to keep the mp community.
CA should know that and learn from relic and so on...
also when I meant map here I meant whether its a custom Campaign map or the normal campaign map. I guess if CA will offer tools we will see more maps like Sicily that was Created for old RTW. and with campaign map on Multiplayer we will see a lot of sharing maps :)**

There is a map editor in M2TW for custom and historical battle maps, they even gave use the entry needed in the .cfg to activate it beofre the game came out. And maknig new campaign maps is done exactly the same as it was in RTW.

And your suggestion really doesn't deal with the main problem of a multiplayer campaign. Having the game minimized whilst 2 other players fight a battle might seem like a solution, but if i've only got an hour or so to devote to a campaign a day what am i supposed to do if the other players battle takes a hour?

[Dead_Like_Me]

well , then enter a game that is symboled as auto resolve battles only.
that way the game way quicker. besides make sure that when you get to a game the host will be nice and will agree to take the campaign an hour a day.
if this doesn't help you and you got to little time to spend then play only lan with friends , or internet game with lock and save from time to time.

and about the editors , well i heard about the historical battle editor but i didn't tried it yet. also i didn't created maps in the old RTW so i don't know but as much as i so it doesn't accessible as i think it need to be.
what i mean is that you wont need to mod for it , you will have an icon for it.

[Dead_Like_Me]

after thinking a bit more here are some more additions :

* Lately I reinstalled old Rome , I have started playing Spoon's Sicily map.
after playing for some time I came to conclusion that this kind of map
is perfect for online games. like in any other RTS games today
you got maps that designed for 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ... players
this Sicily map is a good example for a map that can be played in less
time then a Civ 4 online game and yet to be fun due to the fact its pretty
small and has only 3 factions. its also could be some kind of a tournamement
map 3 player FFA :D. this kind of things yet to be seen on medieval 2
but if CA will give us multiplayer and a better map editor we will defiantly
more maps out there shared and a lot of players.
in fact the fact you don't need 17 players to each game will help improve
the MP far ahead.

* Here is a link my friends to an MP game started at the Spanish forum
this MP is played with the unfinished Hot-seat. and therefore suffers
from a lot of bugs. they can't have battles , only the first of a several
diplomatic offers will be shown in the players turn and so on...
on of the latest and most problematic one was that you can't destroy England
otherwise game won't continue in the next round.
though all this problems they still kept going and find solutions.
they are a good example and a good inspiration that we ought to follow.
its weird my friend because this guys have played with problems that made it
almost unplayable and they are playing for almost 2 months.
and they don't quit and keep playing in their dedicated times and if they can
i am sure that if my ideas will be made into the game it will be much simpler
to have a MP game and timing is only problem to those who wont want to
play. besides as i said with a smaller maps for online game to be created
there will be no timing problems.

here is the link to their game page :
http://www.devoticustodes.com/ergion%20modif/eventos/campania/Campaniamultijugador.htm

[DukeKent]

I have played in a few times now in the current flavor (Patch 1.01) of the Multiplayer Campaign Hotseat Mode. Playing multi human factions on one computer, and as a PBEM (Play by E-Mail). Their are three majore issues in the current version of the Multi-Player Hotseat Campaign Game.

Multi-Player Campaign Hotseat Major Issues:

1. Battles between the human players can only be auto-resolved currently. This is by far the biggest issue. Is this issue being address in the recently anounced patch? I saw where they mentioned multiplayer campaign hotseat in the patch list. But I did not see specifics that say that battles between human factions can be fought on the battle map after the new patch?

2. Battles where the ai is the attacker are auto-resolved. Not only are the battles auto-resolved, but the human player gets no notification that the battle even took place. The human player can only see the results if he happens to notice the differences on the campaign map or in his army. It took me a while to figure what was going on here when I first started playing a multiplayer hotseat campaign.

3. No notification of what happened in a diplomatic event between players. This happened in a PBEM game. You have to be aware of the diplomatic initiative you instigated, and look for your desired result, or lack of result? An example would be if you send a diplomat from Milan to Venice on turn 1 for an alliance, map information, and trade rights. The Venice player on turn 2 agrees to an alliance, map information and trade rights (Venice goes before Milan). This appears to all be logged correctly by the game. But the initiating player (Milan in this example) gets no confirmation the agreement took place, or was denied.
*Question: How do you verify trade rights anyway? Alliances, and map information are pretty easy to tell on the map, and in the diplomacy scroll. The only way I know to tell if you have trade rights with another faction is by using a diplomat to enter into negotiations with that faction. It does show up on the diplomatic negotiations screen.

Editorial: It would be foolish on CA & SEGA's part to release a Multi-Player Hotseat Campaign if these three issues are not addressed :no:

[Carl]

Go to the Diplmacy screen and hover your arrow over the faction symbol, it will list trade rights their.

I'd imagine the issues have been fixed BTW as you can't play a non-hotseat campaign once hotseat is enabled without disabling it in the CFG file, even if you select just one faction. SO if they don't fix the auto resolve issue vs. the AI their will be hell to pay after the patch comes out with those that don't know/want to risk messing with their CFG file.

[Dead_Like_Me]

well about the three issues ... the first one , i don't have a clue i hope they did
something that enables it. playing battles online is a great thing but it would be
even better to play with the armies you build up and in the landscapes you
chose ( by moving to the specific square ).

the second issue already have a solution , go to the hot-seat post in TWcenter
and look at the 3rd page / 4th page some guy gave the code how to get
the massages on battles and give you the choice of fight or flee.
but the battles are only "watchable" you can't control your army.
and also the campaign wont continue after a battle "watch".

now this issues will be solved what you played and others is not a finished
version , the upcoming one is the full one it might still have small bugs
but i am pretty sure the major ones will be solved.

now the third will probably not be solved , the hot-seat is build to one computer
playing not multiplayer over the internet. therefore the diplomatic problems
will only be solved when a mutliplayer will be out.

notice the thread i gave here is not a Hot-seat thread its a mutliplayer campaign
thread that deals how can it be possible to have a playable multiplayer game
in MTW 2 that wont take months to complete. and would be enjoyable as well
with all the features.

[Dead_Like_Me]

I add reference to my post here :

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1524327&postcount=6

as i got some comment with improvement to my ideas here.

[Tyrac]

For the Civ player


Pittboss

Pure and simple.

[Tamur]

I see you've been studying your Hemmingway, Tyrac. However, for us mortals... care to elaborate?

[hellenes]

This ia the ONLY IMO viable way to have a full blown MP campaign...

"A Gigantic map...that has every little castle, dutchy, county that existed in Medieval times. 100 factions (Knights of Honor has as much) so any player will have the choice to choose any faction he likes.
A living world that is in REAL time and runs 24/7.

Whenever a player starts he makes an account and chooses a faction.
Now he can pick up an army from the available pool depending on the buildings his faction has at that time. Hes allocated with set amount of cash to start. After that he has many options: Either manage his castle/province or engage in diplomacy with the neighbours or or even start a war by attacking a nearby settlement or army.

Any action he is doing is represented as his character as a general and his army as his tool of destruction. His army grows or dwindles depending on his actions.
Now the most important factor (IMO) is what happens when the player is absent? Well his army simply loggs off the game! And his castle is manned by the "PO" garrison of a decent amount of archers/crossbows and militia OR if his faction has more than one players (mostly the popular factions like Byzantium or England) that player is notified to fight to defend the castle. The diplomacy in the case of multiple players that picked up the same faction is treated on a presence/rank level meaning that any negotiations will be engaged with the highest ranking player (meaning clan/faction leader and lower) present at that time OR on a pre set basis or "guidelines" that are given by the absent leader.

All players will be free enough to go wherever they want in real time on a scaled movement rate however with the appropriate consequences like a war declaration or annoyance...
There will be rebel armies in a quide abudant numbers with plenty of little catsles and provinces to expand to...
The characters themselves would aqcuire parameters same as the SP game based on the player's actions with the death of the character the player would either get the heir of that character (so he must make sure that his character gets married) or if there is no heir the player gets to fight a mini civil war and pickes the side, and if that side wins he gets a new character spwaning from the ranks....

Also the world that surrounds the player can be set in the battle engine of the TW games WITHOUT any boundaries and if the sizes of armies are too big for the server to cope with it, the strategic layer can be used in real time as |I said before.
On the unit sizes the player can pick up ANY size he wants the cost of the units will be based on per soldier capita....So if 100 spearmen cost 100 florins to buy and 50 florins to upkeep, 200 spearmen will cost 200 florins to buy and 100 florins to upkeep.
Speaking of which the castle that the player is allocated with generates a fixed amount of money that pays the upkeep cost of anything that the player has in his army.
If the castle of the player is lost his army turns into "bandits" and he will not pay any upkeep for them until he recovers his castle or takes the castle from another player. In the case that the player belongs to a bigger faction he can become a general in the service of the monarch but his army will have to be paid from the crown's coffins but will have the option to recruit soldiers from the crown's castles/cities at his expense (the player generates wealth through looting enemie territories/castles or from booty from the battles and has his personal money).

The crown itslef is an entity thats allocated to the faction/clan leader it recieves a "crown tax" from the other clan members engages in state level diplomacy and generally operates the "big picture" of the clan/faction.
Naval battles will be made controllable and the troops that are present on board will participate in any engagement. No agents will be present in the game since the diplomacy would be dealt through a chat and any other character would be simply part of an agreement (marriage would be agreed through a chat no need for a princess character)...

If at any later point a new player joins the game he will be allocated soldiers/castle etc scalable to the point that the game is at that time so there are no phaenomena like a newbe with peasants against a veteran with gothic troops.
Armour upgrades and soldiers will be tradable, like the player can "upgrade" his byzantine infantry to varangians by "disbanding" the infantry in the castle and having the worth of that unit back (again based on per soldier capita) and by purchasing a unit of varangians the same size (or bigger with extra cost) as the byzantine infantry by paying any difference...

Events will take place in the game at a chronological time through "upgrades" that the developers will release (like chronicles in La2) like the high era upgrade after a year or the mongol invasion patch....
Speaking of UNPLAYABLE factions the mongols or the astecs will be mainly the PvE element that will require HUGE alliances to be forged to deal with them.
The Pope will be a GM character in the game regulating the catholic factions and launching crusades. The orthodox factions will have the patriarch of costantinople as the spiritual leader and most importantly will play major role in the reunification of churchers attempts that will be voted by orthodox players (players that control orthodox factions).
The crusades will be deal in the sense of raids with huge alliances forged to march to the holy land..."