Medieval's Rome: Total War mod input thread

[Kaidonni]

Medieval’s Rome: Total War

Concept
To use the original Medieval: Total War Viking Invasion engine to capture the spirit which Rome: Total War originally conveyed.

Overview
RTW was a great step forward for the Total War series, but it also had it’s shortcomings. Its engine has been further utilised for Medieval 2: Total War. Despite the glory the new engine has experienced, and all of the opportunities it has opened up, MTW:VI has not lost its own glory. The original MTW built on the success of Shogun: Total War’s engine, and was refined through MTW:VI.

MTW:VI still has so much potential, and to build a mod based on RTW is an appetising idea. It will be a great challenge, but it will be well worth it in the end. This mod essentially means using MTW:VI’s base engine to build an almost entirely new game. This is, using the correct terminology, a full conversion. A new map; new units; new characters; new events; new technology tree; new religions (for the most part – Judaism and Heretical Cults as religions will still feature, as they did when MTW first came out); new titles (absent in both RTW and at least the original release of M2:TW – only patches and expansions, i.e. time, will determine whether titles make it in there); and so on.

Proposed Features (WIP – subject to change at any time)
- 17 entirely new factions – play as the Republic of Rome and crush the Carthaginians and other enemies of Rome – or play as the Macedonians and rebuild Alexander's empire;
- Entirely new map covering Europe, Northern Africa, the Middle East and Asia, complete with new regions;
- Length of game spanning from 295BC when the Romans defeated an alliance of Samnites, Etruscans and Gaul to 79AD when Vesuvius erupted and buried Pompeii and many other Roman towns;
- Entirely new technology tree with new art for all buildings and units, including unique technology tree paths for different factions – while the ‘civilised’ factions can build to the top levels, the ‘barbarian’ factions will be more limited;
- Entirely new portraits and names for all characters;
- Titles to reflect the era (including titles for the Romans such as Aedile, Quaestor, and Consul);
- A number of new religions (and two old ones – Judaism and Heretics), complete with agents to preach their ways;
- New region bonuses;
- The Seven Wonders of the World;
- Homelands/Auxilia-based recruitment system;
- Pre-Marian and Post-Marian eras - when it hits 107BC, the Romans can begin building legions;
- Recruitable historic characters such as Julius Caesar, Hannibal and Vercingetorix.

Faction List (WIP)
1. Republic of Rome
2. Carthage
3. Epirus
4. Greek Cities
5. Macedonia
6. Kingdom of Pergamum
7. Pontus
8. Seleucid Empire
9. Ptolemaic Empire
10. Armenia
11. Parthia
12. Germania
13. Britannia
14. Gaul
15. Iberia
16. Sarmatia
17. Rebels

Religions (WIP)
1. Hellenism
2. Roman Paganism (the Di Indigetes and De Novensides)
3. Celtic Paganism
4. Zoroastrianism
5. Judaism
6. Heretical Cults

Cultures (WIP)
NB: Based on architecture, character portraits and unit/settlement pieces.
1. Roman and Hellenic - shared (Republic of Rome, Epirus, Greek Cities, Macedonia, Kingdom of Pergamum, Seleucid Empire);
2. Eastern (Carthage, Pontus, Armenia, Parthia);
3. Barbarian (Gaul, Germania, Britannia, Iberia, Sarmatia);
4. Egyptian (Ptolemaic Empire)? *Possibly Eastern instead if hardcode limits do not allow a complete fourth culture set

Seven Wonders of the World (WIP)
NB: The exact mechanisms for these wonders are speculative – I do not know to what extent I will be able to implement benefits provided by them with MTW:VI’s engine.
1. The Statue of Zeus
2. The Mausoleum at Harlicarnassus
3. The Temple of Artemis
4. The Colossus at Rhodes
5. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon – increased farming output
6. The Pyramids and Sphinx at Giza
7. The Pharos Lighthouse


*****

The above has been updated as of 22/2/2007.

I want to limit the number of factions, since as there is a fine balance to be had between number of factions and a 107-province-limit, while spanning all of Northern Europe, covering parts of Northern Africa, and going as far east as the Caspian Sea.

For sea regions...I want to limit how many of them that are present on the map, perhaps making ships more costly to balance things out.

[cegorach]

Some time ago I was thinking about the same and honestly it is quite easy, but requires time I don't have.

I suggest checking the HTW mod for dozens of useful animations and Fall of Rome for the rest of those.



new events

Events cannot be changed, the rest can, but with some limits.




24+ entirely new factions

You can have up to 30 (31 including rebels),



- The Seven Wonders of the World – unique buildings which cannot be built and cannot be destroyed – providing unique bonuses to the region they are located within;

That is a problem. For sure you can have 2-3 such buildings, but I can't say for sure if it is possible to add more, but rather not.



- Marius-event to allow the Romans to build truly professional legions;

Impossible as event, but you have the era concept present in MTW VI to exploit - just set it the year you need.


- Special emergent faction events, such as Spartacus’ uprising;

Unlikely if not impossible.



Recruitable historic characters such as Julius Caesar, Hannibal and Vercingetorix.

If limited to a certain faction is possible and very easy to add. In PMTW I have over 200 historical characters and the only limit I found for now is the 31 such people per faction.




Religions (WIP)
1. Hellenism
2. Di Indigetes (Roman)
3. Celtic Paganism
4. Zoroastrianism
5. Judaism
6. Heretical Cults

The maximum number is smaller
1. Catholic
2. Orthodox
3. Muslim
4. Pagan
You can replace them easily, but that is really all.
Jewish and Heretical cults can be used in more limited way as units' provinces' religions.
Directly is not possible to use them as faction religions.





Cultures (WIP)
NB: Based on architecture, character portraits and unit/settlement pieces.


Only character portraits can be varied as you like, but the rest can have up to 4 different ways to sho them, three in most cases so one should be shared.





1. The Statue of Zeus – increased public loyalty in provinces for owner;

Very easy, but too simple. There are very diverse possibilities to explore with buildings.


2. The Mausoleum at Harlicarnassus – cheaper building upgrades/less build time;

impossible


3. The Temple of Artemis – cheaper religious building upgrades;

impossible


4. The Colossus at Rhodes – increased trade;

easy


5. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon – increased farming output;

rather easy


6. The Pyramids and Sphinx at Giza – increased public loyalty in Egyptian provinces for owner;

not possible


7. The Pharos Lighthouse – increased trade and cheaper ships.

first is possible and easy, second not.

[



I need all the input I can get. This thread is the main thread for updates, etc, getting a team together, and so on. I just feel that RTW deserves to be Medieval Total War-fied.


Good luck !

I can drop in from time to time and answer some questions.:book:

[caravel]

Superb idea for a mod. :2thumbsup:

I'm not sure how you can make indestructible buildings? I think that's hard coded, and AFAIK only the VI campaign Forest Clearing is indestructible. cegorach may know of some more.

Of the religions, these four are your most important anyway, and you can use them for your factions:

1. Hellenism
2. Di Indigetes (Roman)
3. Celtic Paganism
4. Zoroastrianism

The others...

5. Judaism
6. Heretical Cults

...can be used in the same way they they're used in vanilla MTW/VI.

For you "events" you'll need to use eras, as the events in the game are also hard coded.

@cegorach: What does one do as regards the pope in a modded game? I have always wondered about that. :stupido2:

:bow:

[Pericles]

Great idea for a mod.

I like someone who thinks BIG :yes:

Some things you listed aren't possible; but the majority of the items you listed ARE possible.

All it will take is a will, and the willingness to do some hard work.

All the best!

Cheers!

[cegorach]

Superb idea for a mod. :2thumbsup:

[QUOTE]I'm not sure how you can make indestructible buildings? I think that's hard coded, and AFAIK only the VI campaign Forest Clearing is indestructible. cegorach may know of some more.

Warrior Hold too. Maybe something else.




@cegorach: What does one do as regards the pope in a modded game? I have always wondered about that. :stupido2:

He can make him playable thus allowing crusades or use VI to avoid the entire thing.:book:

[Adrian II]

I think this is a great idea, Kaidonni, but you are going to need a specialist team to work it all out. And I am not going to be on it. I am totally unexperienced and I don't have the time for such a commitment anyway.

As a historian by profession, I may have some useful knowledge on some aspects. I promise I will follow developments in the mod section and help out wherever I can.

Good luck and kudos to your mod. :bow:

[Martok]

Sounds fantastic, Kaidonni! I'm no modder myself, but I definitely support you in this endeavour. A Rome mod for MTW/VI is something many have wanted to see. :thumbsup:

[Kaidonni]

I won't be able to work on it all of the time, as I have other work such as my animation work at uni to get done. But, of course, there is no point in rushing, so...

Now...hmmm...what about the messages which popped up telling you of certain events, such as the Alexiad being completed or the Peasant Crusade? Would I be able to do anything similar to those, in that at the press of the turn button, one is told of an event, and say, farming output is increased in a certain province? Or would I be very limited for this?

I'd also love to have emerging factions...but, from the replies, it seems this idea might not make it... I'm guessing XL, since as it uses MTW's map, and isn't a full conversion, didn't have issues with emerging factions being included. But, what are my prospects, then?

Hmmm...as for the Marius Event thing...would I be able to do it so that there is, say, a 'Republic' era and an 'Empire' era (to coin phrases on the hoof)? In that, when you 'enter' the Empire era, you get new units available to build as the Romans, pretty much like the factions in MTW when you pass from Early to High, then High to Late? Or could I only implement one set of units the entire campaign?

Another thing - what are the limits for the map itself? Dimensions, maximum number of provinces, etc? I'd prefer an entirely new map so I can at least get room for Numidia and Parthia. I'd also like a more colourful-look to the campaign map, but is that possible? I have no idea what the limitations of the map-making software will be, and at the moment have no chance to access it (bro is redecorating, so I'm sitting in an awkward position typing all of this :help:).

Thanks so far. I know absolutely nothing about modding MTW: VI at the moment, but that will change.

[caravel]

Now...hmmm...what about the messages which popped up telling you of certain events, such as the Alexiad being completed or the Peasant Crusade? Would I be able to do anything similar to those, in that at the press of the turn button, one is told of an event, and say, farming output is increased in a certain province? Or would I be very limited for this?
Hardcoded AFAIK. The way to avoid them is to use a different timeframe, which you will be using. I'm pretty sure you can't add new ones.


I'd also love to have emerging factions...but, from the replies, it seems this idea might not make it... I'm guessing XL, since as it uses MTW's map, and isn't a full conversion, didn't have issues with emerging factions being included. But, what are my prospects, then?
The emerging factions are Golden Horde, Swiss and Burgundy. The GH always appear in the easter provinces in 1231. There is no way to stop them appearing AFAIK. Burgundy and the Swiss always appear in their provinces between certain dates if the loyalty their is low enough to allow a loyalist revolt, otherwise they don't appear. Using a different timeframe avoids the emerging factions, but I'm also pretty sure you can't add any new emerging factions.

Hmmm...as for the Marius Event thing...would I be able to do it so that there is, say, a 'Republic' era and an 'Empire' era (to coin phrases on the hoof)? In that, when you 'enter' the Empire era, you get new units available to build as the Romans, pretty much like the factions in MTW when you pass from Early to High, then High to Late? Or could I only implement one set of units the entire campaign?
You can use eras for this much like in MTW. You can have a pre marius era and a post marius era. The pre marius units become unavailable when the reforms occur and the new units become available then. You will have to set the year for this (BCE107), it cannot be a flexible date.

I don't know about the map, but would be interested in knowing also. Another factor is the maximum number of provinces. Even if you can create more of the east you may run out of provinces pretty quickly.

[cegorach]

The maximum is 107 provinces i.e. 8 more than in the vanilla map.:book:

[caravel]

The maximum is 107 provinces i.e. 8 more than in the vanilla map.:book:
Hmmm... possible then.

[Kaidonni]

107 provinces sounds fine to me. Should be enough. Looks like I'll just have to abandon the event messages and emerging factions, then.

It occured to me that having the Romans have a family tree may be a little...odd. I have no issues with the other factions having Kings, Emperors, etc with heirs. But I'd rather the Romans work a bit like the Papal States - that is, they have a leader, but no heirs or daughters, and when their leader dies a new one is elected (or in MTW terms, appears in place of the guy who kicked the bucket). However, I'd want it to be possible to destroy the Romans, too, after taking all of their lands, and not have the issue of them reappearing like the Pope (you can tell I have no idea of the limits of MTW for the most part at the moment).

[caravel]

It occured to me that having the Romans have a family tree may be a little...odd.
There will be no real 'family tree' as such, it will work as it does in MTW. The faction will be based on a faction leader, heirs and princesses. I think that you'll need to remove the princesses altogether as it won't be historically accurate to have them running around as they were in MTW/VI. The Muslim factions in MTW are always married when they come of age, I'm not sure if this is hardcoded or not, but this would be ideal if all of your factions were like this. The king will marry the "daughter of a leading aristocrat" anyway after a turn if he's still not married. You could change this text to something else more suitable.

I have no issues with the other factions having Kings, Emperors, etc with heirs. But I'd rather the Romans work a bit like the Papal States - that is, they have a leader, but no heirs or daughters, and when their leader dies a new one is elected (or in MTW terms, appears in place of the guy who kicked the bucket). However, I'd want it to be possible to destroy the Romans, too, after taking all of their lands, and not have the issue of them reappearing like the Pope (you can tell I have no idea of the limits of MTW for the most part at the moment).
The answer to that would be to use the MTW Holy Roman Empire or VI Viking faction as the Romans perhaps, as I'm sure that the factions that recruit a new faction leader from among their generals (Vikings, Pope, HRE) are also hardcoded. Using VI would be the best idea for this mod I think, so the Vikings would be the Romans if that were the case. The Vikings are also a faction that can be converted from paganism to Christianity once, I think 60%?, of their population converts. This could be useful perhaps? Though I'm not sure how that works exactly.

[Ignoramus]

Also, perhaps you could include more barabrian factions?

You could include:
1. Aedui
2. Avernii
3. Suebii
4. Caledonians
5. Boii
6. Belgae

Also, perhaps you should put the Ptolemies in the Hellenic/Roman culture set, considering that the Ptolemies were Macedonians.

[Kaidonni]

Well, the Ptolemies basically inherited Egypt. I have the vision that they'd keep with Egyptian tradition of their structures, or did they historically build more Macedonian?

Also, the idea to include those other factions is interesting. Would make sense, since as it'd add variety to the map (less rebels, more like XL). I keep getting apprehensive about the idea that many factions would be in contact with one another, but XL works fine (plus it adds a more complex issue - you're not just dealing with rebels, but a fully-fledged faction who's goal it is to eliminate you and control Europe). More factions means it's harder to steam-roller (and rebels are rather generic anyway).

[macsen rufus]

Definitely take a look at Hellenic TW -- I've long harboured the pipe-dream of extending that to play on the whole Europe map, and include Rome etc (HTW has Roman units). I did once use these and other HTW units to do a "Britannia 43AD" mini-mod but my computer died, and I lost the only copy :wall: :wall: One day I'll try to recover the HD....

Good luck :2thumbsup:

[King of Bavaria]

Sounds like a great idea for a mod!
Especially for people (like me) on whose bad, old pc RTW wouldn't work. :wall:
I always wanted the european map to be a bit more "barbaric" :viking:

Good look for your mod, I'm waiting for it.

[Kaidonni]

Okay, I'm thinking of contacting the Rome Total Realism team to see if they can share their map sources with me. Basically, I haven't the slightest idea where the best regional map of the times I can get is. Only once I have worked out the map can I really be decided on the factions themselves (though since as game mechanics differ in MTW to RTW, due to the different type of map, more factions over less land will probably work - it did in XL).

Now, as for start date, 295BC is preferred. 14AD seems a little too early for the end date, but I don't want it too late. Perhaps the date where the Roman empire was at it's largest? About 116AD? Gives 411 turns, whereas MTW, from 1087 to 1453, gives 366.

[Martok]

Now, as for start date, 295BC is preferred. 14AD seems a little too early for the end date, but I don't want it too late. Perhaps the date where the Roman empire was at it's largest? About 116AD? Gives 411 turns, whereas MTW, from 1087 to 1453, gives 366.
Sounds good Kaidonni. :2thumbsup:

[Adrian II]

Now, as for start date, 295BC is preferred. 14AD seems a little too early for the end date, but I don't want it too late. Perhaps the date where the Roman empire was at it's largest? About 116AD? Gives 411 turns, whereas MTW, from 1087 to 1453, gives 366.I can't help thinking about this mod from time to time, it seems such an interesting challenge.

I think you should bear in mind that you want a playable game, not a recreation of history. The starting position should more or less conform to a historical situation with roughly equal starting positions for all playable factions. 295 b.c. seems a good start. But from that year on, the game should be wide open to surprises and even anachronisms. The end date of 14 a.d. would be totally arbitrary because by 14 a.d. you don't know if there will even be a Rome on the campaign map.

M:TW struck a good compromise between historical reality and playability. Some historical episodes were completely scrapped, such as the Babylonian captivity of the Pope in French-controlled Avignon. On the other hand, the developers included patently bizarre rules, such as the rule that everybody suddenly starts producing Chivalric Sergeants in 1205.

So, I believe a total rethink is required if you want a good playable game. Let me give you some examples.

Example 1
Why have 31 factions just because you can? I think 7 tot 9 factions should suffice to make a good game. Any provinces which these factions do not hold at the start are rebel provinces, period.

Example 2
Change the M:TW Princesses into Philosophers, House Teachers or Advisors. If a faction manages to install it's Advisor in another faction's top echelon, this creates an alliance and increases the chances of a friendly take-over after a faction's demise, just like in M:TW. Of course after they reach age 50 or 60 any idle Advisors will retire into a mountain cave, to a latifundium in the countryside or wherever.

See what I mean? Let me know if this appeals to you, I would love to be of assistance. But for starters, I think you will have to list the 'hard parameters' for the game you want to create. What map do you use, which engine (M:TW or VI) will be taken, what are the hard codes that we must respect in any case. Only then can you fill in the details.

Hope this is helpful and constructive.

[Kaidonni]

I prefer having more factions. Of course, I'm still having a bit of an issue considering whether I should have the Gaul or some of those other factions. I think just the Gaul (or I may aswell break up Britannia and Germania, not to mention probably Iberia, etc).

Now, I chose 295BC because the Romans defeated an alliance of Gaul, Etruscans and Samnites in that year, so it seemed a pretty memorable year to begin with (just as some of the RTW mods start in 280BC, close, for example, to when Pyrrhus of Epirus proved you can win the battles but not the war).

As per playability...MTW had 366 turns. If I were to end in 14AD, that'd give me 309 turns (57 turns less). Now...hmmm...79AD I fancy as a good ending date to get as close as possible to 366 turns. 374, basically (we're looking at the start date when the Romans beat that alliance I mentioned, and the end date when Vesuvius erupted and destroyed Pompeii, etc).

Hardcodes we must respect...okay, so far it's:
- 107 provinces maximum;
- No new event messages (as far as I can tell, but I may be misinterpreting what has been said here);
- No emergent factions;
- Maximum of 31 famous/heroic characters per faction;
- Maximum 3 ways of showing buildings (for different cultures);
- Portraits can be more varied;
- Maximum 4 religions (aside from Judaism and Heretical Cults);
- Maximum 30 factions (no. 31 being the Rebels);
- Wonders need to be rethought because what I wanted to do with them isn't possible;
- Possibility that no more indestructable buildings can be added;
- Need to exploit the era concept if I wish to have the Marius Event (an early era and a late era, for example, the latter beginning in 107BC).

As for the map, after looking online (and finding some pretty good maps on Google image search), I think a more abstracted approach to the coastline could be stylish. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered looking at maps the Romans may have created and used them instead of geographically accurate maps. More colour could be present, so it's more vibrant, but the actual map would be incorrect based on what people in those days thought the world looked like, etc, to allow a more 'ancient' feel to the actual map.

I'll have to think all of this over a lot though before I start any actual modding.

[Adrian II]

Now, I chose 295BC because the Romans defeated an alliance of Gaul, Etruscans and Samnites in that year (..)OK, like I said it seems a good starting year. Usually, circa 300 b.c. is taken as the time when the internal organization of the Roman state and its numerical advantage made it inevitable that Rome would dominate the peninsula; even though the Romans might lose battles, they would win their wars. Besides, with the plebeian emancipation (lex Hortensia of 287) the 'classic Republic' was complete, with the plebeian element now definitely tied into the policy of conquest of the nobilitas. So far so good.

Now for the rest of the 'known world'. If we look at the wider picture, we are talking phat civs, not your isolated brutes on the British Isles or some Tarentians holding out in the South if Italy. You are not going to make the Jews or the Dumnonii a playable faction when we have, consecutively:


Seleucids in the central-eastern part of the map (roughly Nicaea and various provinces to the East of that). They should be rich, well-armed and well-organized because this was an empire stretching all the way to India. The Romans simply called it 'Asia' and for a reason. It's elite was gradually 'Asianized', but it's soldiery was firmly organized on a Greek/Macedonian footing and a very respectable opponent.
Ptolomaeii in and around Egypt, a no-brainer, very influential and possessing a Greek/Macedonian professional army not unlike the Seleucids, but with a weak and unpopular dynasty and stinking rich through excessive taxation and oppression (peasant uprisings are a must for this faction)
Macedonia of course. This would be pretty much in disarray in 295 as Demetrius took over and subjected both Macedonia proper and most of Greece, but only tenuously... Rather HRE-like, in M:TW terms.
Carthage, no surprise there eitherWith all due respect the rest of the barbs are small fry, unless you group them in two or three factions with some clout. My suggestion would be Celts (not to be confused with the largely mythical Irish-British Celtic civ), Germans and maybe the Sarmatians.

Since you have only 3 civilizations with their own tech trees, including the religous buildings that confer playability on a religion, this means that in practice you only have 3 effective religions, corresponding to three civilizations. One civ/religion would have to be Hellenistic (Seleucids, Ptolomees, Cathaginians, Macedonians). Another could be Tribal (Celts, Germans), and a third could be Roman-Italic (guess who?). Each would have its civ-specific tech tree. Hellenistic would have phalanx formations, chariots and elephants (the Seleucids right away, the Ptolemees and others later on) and kataphrakts. Rome would have more and more professional legions and specialist feoderati units, e.g. Cretan archers. Tribals would have their own horde-based tech tree with emphasis on material, agricultural and administrative upgrades, the development of specialist horsemen etcetera.

If you can extend the campaign map to the East, i.e. to include Iran and/or the Caspian Sea, you could introduce the Parthians in the role of the M:TW Golden Horde. The Parthians attacked the Seleucid empire in 250 b.c. and in your mod they could act as a factor that balances the huge might of the Seleucids and makes them less dominant at the start. This increases playability.

But this is all off the cuff.

Oh, and a practical question: can you introduce war oliphants and scythed chariots into M:TW?


I'll have to think all of this over a lot though before I start any actual modding.I wise decision. And you're not alone, people are willing to think with you.

[axel]

Wow this would be great to play many cheers for this mod:balloon2:

[Adrian II]

Wow this would be great to play many cheers for this mod:balloon2:I think it has real potential. I sent Kaidonni a PM yesterday (he hasn't answered yet) because I hope he is still 'on the case'. Maybe it would help if others did the same. He needs a team, you can't pull this off on your own -- unless, maybe, you are cegorach. ~;)

EDIT
Kaidonni has just replied to my PM. Sounds like we will all be hearing from him soon. :thumbsup:

[Kaidonni]

Mentioned this in part in your one thread, Adrian, on new battlefields, but it'd be best I flesh it out here...

My mod would require perhaps entirely new fortifications on the battlefield. I'd prefer it that way. I like how in Rome they had tech trees that took you from a Town to a Huge City, and that might suit my mod better than 'Castle' type fortifications. Rather than a central fortification in my mod, each province would have a provincial capital, so to speak...

The actual settlements on the battlefield would be, as in MTW vanilla, based on what was built on the campaign map. So, you could simply have a Town - no walls for defensive purposes. You could upgrade to have Wooden Pallisades or Wooden Walls around it, although the idea of there being towers could be debatable until the next settlement level.

Large Town could be second, with more powerful walls that have reinforced gates and towers to fire from, perhaps more than one layer...

Minor City could be next, with base stone walls, the upgrades having larger walls and more powerful defences.

Large City and then Huge City could be next, and you get the basic idea...

Or, to name them better, it could go Village > Town > City > Large City > Metropolis. Or something like that...

This is on the hoof, of course. Better to throw around something small and quick, get feedback, then revise it.

[caravel]

You should be able to do that. The population of course won't be a factor as MTW doesn't support any kind of population for a castle. You can redesign the castle models (I'm not sure how to do this but I believe it is possible) as a series of buildings inside a low walled enclosure, as they are in the VI campaign. The next upgrade would give a larger town with better walls, and so on, and so on.

[OmarPacha]

Some month ago I made this one, on purpose of replacing barbarian factions keep in HTW, maybe it could work for Medieval-Rome mod too.

https://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l118/OmarPacha/Fort_f1.jpg


Cheers

[Adrian II]

Rather than a central fortification in my mod, each province would have a provincial capital, so to speak... (..) Or, to name them better, it could go Village > Town > City > Large City > Metropolis. Or something like that...Excellent idea: settlements instead of castles would be a huge improvement. As long as you make sure to have a closed fortification as the main frame for each settlement.

For a structure to qualify as a fortification with the AI, it should consist of a string of connected walls, towers and other buildings (such as churches or large houses) with only one opening: the gate. In and around this fortification you could have a 'townscape' of all sorts of buildings and related structures, including viaducts and such. The fortification could either enclose the 'townscape' (making the whole thing look like a walled city) or lie within it (citadel look). The AI would recognize all buildings on the map as belonging to the defender. The attacker could destroy them and put them on fire.

As a result, an attacker would have to defeat the local defending army in the field in the first turn, and lay siege to the province's main settlement in the next turn.

Call me weird, but for sheer sensation I would love to see a huge settlement burning to the ground after an attack, with a pile of smoke rising above it and 'pockets of resistance' among the remaining buildings.

It would be relatively easy to import new types of building (Hellenistic, Italo-Roman, etcetera) into the battlemap file. Somebody has to do the dirty work with Paintshop though...


As for my own dirty work, I am aching to make some really good battlemaps. For instance for a Tigris or Euphrates crossing, a map that would include a river and bridge, watch towers (they qualify as fortifications by themselves), a wide flat delta and rugged mountains in the background. Probably Zeugma:


https://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9472/zeugma8perfectviewzt0.gif (https://imageshack.us)

[Raz]

Surprisingly I was already making this exact mod not too long ago sometime last year, at least until my computer crashed.


I was using edited versions of the sprites from the Fall of Rome mod. They were coming along, neat little shields and what not. I was planning on calling it Roma Victor, or along the lines of.
Anyway, I'd be happy to help with this mod, descriptions and tedious chores such as the movement text files and such. I have so much more experience in modding MTW than RTW. ^_^

[the greek]

this should be geat good luck

[Ignoramus]

Any more progress?

[Ignoramus]

*Bump*

[axel]

Hi mate
Any progress in this fine mod your making mate???

[Adrian II]

This mod looked like agreat idea, but Kaidonni didn't exactly get many offers of help. Oh well, you can't win em all.

[axel]

Ye mate i know but i dont know how to mod, I got help maybe with information or other things just let me know ?? but maybe somme other modders got help if thye are reddy with there mod? i hope so

[Leith]

Greetings,

I was contemplating on creating a mod with the same theme. Rome:Total War has always fascinated me, both for its visuals and the historical period in which it is meant to take place. However, I found the gameplay lacking. Regardless, I was thinking of creating this mod for my own pleasure but if you're willing to help then perhaps we can co-operate ? :beam:

[axel]

Hi
Say yes Kaidonni :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: and if i cane help with somme let me know

[dimitrios the samian]

Greetings Leith ,, I to play RTW and find it lacking ,, I was dissapointed like Axel to see this mod evaporate due to lack of interest ,, Anyway !! Good news is most of the work has been done :smash: ... Im also willing to support in as many ways possible but I must admit Im only starting out on the modding scene ... OK First I would like to mention a Roman Mod that came out some 4/5 yrs ago - I have it and can send it to you (( PM me )) you can also download the "Fall of Rome" mod and get permission to use whatever from that mod as well ,, I also suggested some time ago to other modders to look into adapting bits & peices from other games to capture the theme ,, In your case ,, pics , portraits , temples , etc etc from RTW into your mod ..
I really hope you have the skill ,confidence, time & patience to see your dream mod come true and Im certain others will offer their assistance as well ,, cheers for now ,, DTS:beam:

[Leith]

Salutations, Dimitrios The Samian! Thank you for showing interest. Good to know other MTW players would like to see this mod come to life. I have done several mods (all for my pleasure) before I came across this website. So I have some experience in modding MTW but I would be very grateful for any assistance you may offer, friend. PM is on its way!

[Kaidonni]

Interesting...I haven't been around looking into doing this mod because of other things like uni work. The idea of co-oping sounds best, since as if you get one person with this idea, fine. Two who have similar ideas, even better. More who like it..."Excellent".

I'll try to stick around now. It's all the little things that get in the way (including continuing trying to play XL, M2, and other games, and uni work). Especially laziness with me...though I am getting way out of that now.

Having multiple people working on this is probably the best thing anyway (makes me think of Lusted - he puts lots of effort into his mods, but still gets help from other people).

As for pics, portraits, etc...I was thinking of new ones for this mod. Nothing like a fresh take on a concept.

[axel]

Hi mate
I never made a mod and i dont know how to mod but if there s sommething i cane do let me know like finding info or pics or sommething or maybe i cane learn
just let me know:2thumbsup:

[Kaidonni]

Of course you can learn. :)

I've never made a mod in MTW in my entire life, and have only ever modded RTW myself to a short extent.

There are plenty of topics on how to mod around that we can all take a good look at. But at the moment, it's the concept that matters.

There must be a good balance of gameplay V historical accuracy, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread. Given that the maximum number of provinces allowed is 107 and the maximum number of factions is around 30 (excluding rebels, since as they will always be in), we need to think about the scope of the map and the factions to be included, and what provinces to include.

I have bookmarked some online maps of Asia Minor and Europe, but getting a really good source for maps of ancient borders, well, is entirely another matter. There will probably be no single source we can look at and reference, so a host of sources is better. About.com is very useful for ancient map searches (where I found these maps, but you will have to go through a fair number of links to find what you really need there). Of course, someone else might know of a good source or sources. We can always ask the Rome Total Realism team if they're willing to share some of their sources so we can plan the map and factions out.

Let's throw some conceptual ideas about, yes?

[Caius]

Hey guys, an RTW player here

Some things you should change:

Medieval’s Rome: Total War

Proposed Features
- 17 entirely new factions – play as the Republic of Rome and crush the Carthaginians and other enemies of Rome – or play as the Macedonians and rebuild Alexander's empire;

Thats a good idea.You should contact Europa Barbarorum or Rome Total Realism.They have a good historical base.

- Entirely new map covering Europe, Northern Africa, the Middle East and Asia, complete with new regions;

Thats a good idea, but you can bring some from RTW

- Length of game spanning from 295BC when the Romans defeated an alliance of Samnites, Etruscans and Gaul to 79AD when Vesuvius erupted and buried Pompeii and many other Roman towns;


- Entirely new technology tree with new art for all buildings and units, including unique technology tree paths for different factions – while the ‘civilised’ factions can build to the top levels, the ‘barbarian’ factions will be more limited;

As the same as Rome.Im not sure how many levels, but Roman factions had 5 and barbarian 3


- Entirely new portraits and names for all characters;

Good.And remember, Roman names were used with v, not u.


- Titles to reflect the era (including titles for the Romans such as Aedile, Quaestor, and Consul);
Is posssible?


- A number of new religions (and two old ones – Judaism and Heretics), complete with agents to preach their ways;

Not used in Rome


- New region bonuses;
- The Seven Wonders of the World;
- Homelands/Auxilia-based recruitment system;
- Pre-Marian and Post-Marian eras - when it hits 107BC, the Romans can begin building legions;
- Recruitable historic characters such as Julius Caesar, Hannibal and Vercingetorix.

Faction List (WIP)
1. Republic of Rome
2. Carthage
3. Epirus
4. Greek Cities
5. Macedonia
6. Kingdom of Pergamum
7. Pontus
8. Seleucid Empire
9. Ptolemaic Empire
10. Armenia
11. Parthia
12. Germania
13. Britannia
14. Gaul
15. Iberia
16. Sarmatia
17. Rebels


Religions (WIP)
1. Hellenism
2. Roman Paganism (the Di Indigetes and De Novensides)
3. Celtic Paganism
4. Zoroastrianism
5. Judaism
6. Heretical Cults

Cultures (WIP)
NB: Based on architecture, character portraits and unit/settlement pieces.
1. Roman and Hellenic - shared (Republic of Rome, Epirus, Greek Cities, Macedonia, Kingdom of Pergamum, Seleucid Empire);
2. Eastern (Carthage, Pontus, Armenia, Parthia);
3. Barbarian (Gaul, Germania, Britannia, Iberia, Sarmatia);
4. Egyptian (Ptolemaic Empire)? *Possibly Eastern instead if hardcode limits do not allow a complete fourth culture set

Seven Wonders of the World (WIP)
NB: The exact mechanisms for these wonders are speculative – I do not know to what extent I will be able to implement benefits provided by them with MTW:VI’s engine.
1. The Statue of Zeus
2. The Mausoleum at Harlicarnassus
3. The Temple of Artemis
4. The Colossus at Rhodes
5. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon – increased farming output
6. The Pyramids and Sphinx at Giza
7. The Pharos Lighthouse

Well, some ideas to help you.

[Roman_Man#3]

Looks good. Except the Ptolemaic Empire should be greek culture.

RM3

[Leith]

Hello everyone!

I think we must start somewhere. In other words, why not work on the existing map, inserting the factions we would like to have, throwing in a few units for the Roman faction and a few others for the "barbarians", and THEN we could gradually modify the map features, factions, units and what not ?

We could also make recommendations/suggestions as to what units each faction should have. How about starting with the Roman faction ? :beam:

My initial list includes, but is not exclusive to,the following:

1-Velites
2-Hastati
3-Principes
4-Praetorian Guard
5-Auxilia
6-Sagittari
7-Triarri
8-Roman Archers
9-Republican Legion
10-Imperial Legion
11-Equites
12-Praetorian Cavalry
13-Legionary Cavalry
14-Gladiators
15-Auxilary Cavalry

Please let me know what you think

[Caius]

Welcome to the org

Not a bad idea sir, but remember, there are troops which cant be trained after the Reforms.

I will help you historically talking

[Roman_Man#3]

I think someone already made this point, but use the Eras feature to simulate reforms. First Era troops would be:

Camillan Troops:
Leves
Hastati
Principes
Triarii
Accensi
Rorarii
Eqvites Romanvm

Second Era would represent Polybian Reforms:
Velites
Hastati
Principes
Triarii
Funditores
Eqvites Romanvm
Eqvites Consvlares

Third Era could Represent the introduction into republican Legions:

Look into these/ Use unit names from Roma Surrectum

Fourth Era would be Imperial Legions:

Look into these/ Use unit names from Roma Surrectum

[dimitrios the samian]

Fantastic !!! It certainly looks like this mod will create a lot of interest and to have such great support in so little time is very encouraging ,, Ok I must sign out now but I'll be emailing you tonite with very good news ,, cheers to all that are offering help ,, DTS

[Leith]

Caius Flaminius, oh, your knowledge of Roman history would be most appreciated! What I meant by my previous post is that we, those who are interested in creating this mod, could actually start doing something practical. I appreciate all the nice and constructive thoughts that have been put into this thread. In my view, things would progress better if we were discussing the different aspects of the mod while playing the Alpha build, for example. To this end, I have been fiddling with some unit graphics in an attempt to come up with some plausible Roman infantry units but it is very time-consuming.

The greatest challenge for this mod, in my humble opinion, is the graphical aspect, i.e creating Roman legions a la Rome: Total War (and even better :beam: ), Macedonian Phalangites who look and FIGHT like they should! Hellenic: Total War had awesome looking Hoplite infantry but their fighting animations were most disappointing. The same goes for most of the units in this mod (apart from Tower Shield pikemen--a unit found in the Bronze Age Expansion for HTW.

What gives me hope that this could be achieved is the superb animations made by Duke John, and others, in the Middle Earth: Total War Mod.

Back to Roman units' suggestions, I am no history expert but I remember that the early Roman units, mainly the Hastati, Principes and Triarii, had different equipment later on. For example, the Hastati and Principes' bronze helmets were replaced by iron ones, since the bronze helmets were vulnerbale to the "barbarians" longswords. If this is true, then we could have a first-generation Hastati, wearing a bronze helmet and a second generation Hastati, wearing an iron one. That could be represented graphically and statistically too.

I'd appreciate any information on what type of weapons/armour Roman units had. Recommeded websites/books would be great!

Cheers for now!

[axel]

Hi Leith
I cant mod, but i cane seek for information for you and ill will come with info site s asap :2thumbsup:

[axel]

Hi
http://www.aeroartinc.com/milmin.asp
http://www.trajan20.freeserve.co.uk/
this one is in dutch but you cane click the pics:
http://www.klascement.net/kt/beelden/legertypmenu.html
http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/arma/welc/beginner/page00.htm
Barbarians: http://www.wizardrealm.com/barbarians/history.html
http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Roman.html
this is a kid info but the links a great: http://www.kidinfo.com/World_History/AncientRome.html
http://library.advanced.org/26602/war.htm
http://members.aol.com/TeacherNet/AncientRome.html
http://www.romanhideout.com/documents.asp
http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/Pictures/Romana.htm
more will comme soon mate s

[Caius]

If you want rebels, Rome have a big list.

But Iberian rebels can be the real people who lived there.I mean, the real Iberian Tribes.



Faction List (WIP)
1. Republic of Rome
2. Carthage
3. Epirus
4. Greek Cities
5. Macedonia
6. Kingdom of Pergamum
7. Pontus
8. Seleucid Empire
9. Ptolemaic Empire
10. Armenia
11. Parthia
12. Germania
13. Britannia
14. Gaul
15. Iberia
16. Sarmatia
17. Rebels
Glad to see Epirus!They werent on Rome.



Back to Roman units' suggestions, I am no history expert but I remember that the early Roman units, mainly the Hastati, Principes and Triarii, had different equipment later on. For example, the Hastati and Principes' bronze helmets were replaced by iron ones, since the bronze helmets were vulnerbale to the "barbarians" longswords. If this is true, then we could have a first-generation Hastati, wearing a bronze helmet and a second generation Hastati, wearing an iron one. That could be represented graphically and statistically too.
There are a special formation for the three units mentionated above.

Can post a l pic soon

my two cents

[Roman_Man#3]

Faction List (WIP)
1. Republic of Rome
2. Carthage
3. Epirus
4. Greek Cities
5. Macedonia
6. Kingdom of Pergamum
7. Pontus
8. Seleucid Empire
9. Ptolemaic Empire
10. Armenia
11. Parthia
12. Germania
13. Britannia
14. Gaul
15. Iberia
16. Sarmatia
17. Rebels

I think you could revise this some more. First 5 are good. For the limited space, I don't think Pergamum is the best faction. Maybe the Getae would be more reasonable.
Because this mod isn't for RTW, I don't think EB would mind if we used some of their factions, units etc.

Germania-Sweboz
Brittannia-If you must, the Casse.
Gaul-Arverni or Aedui
Iberia- Celt-Iberians or Lusotanians


@ Caius Flaminius. It was the manipular formation:beam:

[King of Bavaria]

Hi, I don't know wether this is usefull or not, but I've found some links, mainly about the roman army with pics etc.:

http://www.roman-empire.net/ (Info about history and roman army in different times)

http://www.redrampant.com/ (Troop types and pictures of Romans and other factions)


http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/%7Emadsb/home/war/vegetius/ (a little bit info about weapons and army in general)

http://www.garyb.0catch.com/site_map.html (info about tactics, troops in general and range of missiles)

http://www.romancoins.info/ (some pictures of equipment)

http://198.144.2.125/Roman/Roman.htm (pictures of reconstructed equipment)

I REALLY hope that this mod will become reality :yes:

[Raz]

*Tumble weed passes by*

Update please? I wouldn't want to see this mod fall. :no:

[Bonfire]

what about the saxons the viking faction for this mod not just for britian campain but for europe.

im sory i didn't read all of this but i think the viking factions should be included.

[Caius]

what about the saxons the viking faction for this mod not just for britian campain but for europe.

im sory i didn't read all of this but i think the viking factions should be included.
Viking factions?

There are barbarian factions...

[axel]

Hi
Is this mod still going on???

[The Unknown Guy]

Some suggestions:

-Using religions as a substitute for culture: Old politheistic religions were strongly sychretistic, and as such, assimilated into the conçueror's belief system. Thus, it would be more "realistic" to remove religion altogether and replace it with the four "cultures" (Hellenic, Eastern...). This way, hovering over Greece or Rome would give you "Rome, an Hellenic -or whatever label- faction", for instance, and hovering over Carthage would give you "Carthage, an Eastern Faction". Also, instead of using priests, make it so that Culture-specific buildings spread that given culture (and in this example: Carthage, despite being on the "Western factions" game-culture, in the religion-culture setting it would be dubbed as Eastern, and be compatible with "Eastern but civilized factions")

-Instead of using culture as unit-limitator, dump the "civilized factions" such as Rome and Carthage in one group, the "Civilized but eastern" (such as Parthia) in another group, and barbarians in a third group. Use faction-specific units for each added faction, with some common culturals, and give culture the role of determining the base building tech, and the like

-Remove provinces from Eastern Russia in favor of increasing provinces in Western Europe and Northern Africa. That's where the action takes place anyway.

-Extend the game periods, as to have a "Republic", "Roman Civil Wars", "Principate(early Empire", and "Tetrarchy" (Late Empire, with split into Eastern and Western halves)

-To simulate the "barbarian invasions: high rebellion rate to Germania and other historically non-romanized provinces. Also, as the Tetrarchy era draws close, increase support costs for Roman units (to represent the political-economical crisis), and provide the barbarians with cheap units (and some decent "incoming tech", such as the Hun bow, or horseshoes. Romans should also get access to these "barbarian tech improvements", as they historically adapted, but it should be at a higher cost)
(that's all for now...)

[Kaidonni]

Okay...I'll spend more time looking at work on this mod now. I still have other things to do, but I must prevent myself from descending into laziness.

The idea of having cultures instead of religion...perfect! It could possibly include:
1) Roman
2) Hellenic (The Ptolemaics included in this?)
3) Eastern
4) Barbarian

Just a jumping-off point, of course. Not sure whether we'd allow agents to have anything to do with it. Might be better to resort to special buildings that help speed up the cultural assimilation. EDIT: Oops, didn't read properly, you already said that...LOL!

Looking back at the factions and the map...I'd prefer more factions, a bit like XL, because it could make the map more interesting. I'm not really a fan for fields of rebels. Of course, that's just me, and since as other people want to help out, they have a say in it.

I personally would like to fit Parthia and Armenia in, and possibly Numidia. One of the mods from RTW I used to play (that game is uninstalled at the moment...this computer needs the space) was Lusted's Terrae Expugnandae (Land's To Conquer). He had numerous factions and extended the map in the mod (of course, such an extension would probably be out of the question for this mod).

As for the eras...any ideas are much appreciated. I myself have simplified my preference to that such as pre-Marian and post-Marian, but it might be too simplistic.

Thinking about the heirs system for the Romans...it might be better if they were allowed to 'elect' their leaders rather than limit them to having a family tree. Seems a bit more historic. But again, just my opinion.

[axel]

Hi
Is this mod still workt on as well?

[Wladyslaw IV]

Yes, please work on it. :2thumbsup:

Just copy most units from Fall of Rome. They should let you. Plus there are also many dormant Rome mods for MTW VI, you just have to look around for active links.

[Patrizius]

We are working on a mod called Res Bellicae.It was created for rome total war but we have decided to port it to med 2.So if youwant to join us just tell me(send me a pm).It would be a huge work but we are many.

[axel]

i would love to help, but i dont know how to make mod ??? i cane give a lot of info or maybe i could learn to do somme easy modding ???? is there somme info about your mod? or screens or do you got a topic of it ?:2thumbsup: