View Full Version : U.N. report says Britain worst place for children
LONDON (Reuters) - Britain is the worst country in the industrialized world in which to be a child, closely followed by the United States, the United Nations Children's Fund said on Wednesday... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070214/wl_nm/britain_children_dc)
That's odd. I grew up in the States, and I'm doing alright. (Thank goodness for getting employed last month). I guess the rank was different ten years ago.
ShadeHonestus
02-15-2007, 07:55
I've had thoughts of moving to Sweden the last few years. Looking at the ranking only bolsters my inclinations.
'Children's happiness was rated highest in northern Europe, with the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark leading the list.'
Why always us, this is getting boring :beam:
Incongruous
02-15-2007, 10:12
What?
I thought it was NZ?
Well Britain basically has two different types of childhood.
You either have money, and probably have a good time, or you don't, and have a miserable time. Ironically of course those with money probably do more of the underage drinking, drugs and sex, they just don't get in trouble over it.
I love how stratified British society has somehow managed to become recently. Especially under a Labour government...
Fisherking
02-15-2007, 11:14
Well Britain basically has two different types of childhood.
You either have money, and probably have a good time, or you don't, and have a miserable time. Ironically of course those with money probably do more of the underage drinking, drugs and sex, they just don't get in trouble over it.
I love how stratified British society has somehow managed to become recently. Especially under a Labour government...
Become stratified?
I thought it was part of the English psyche.
The report and its findings may be another issue…I need to read that whole long thing before I know if it is reasonable or an other load of crap coming out of the UN.
The short article said the US ranked 12th in education….very hard to believe they have risen so high….
If you are a child getting your parents to move is not going to help you be happy.
Studies of such things usually try to quantify with data the unquantifiable. I wouldn't take it too much to heart.
cegorach
02-15-2007, 15:06
'Children's happiness was rated highest in northern Europe, with the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark leading the list.'
Why always us, this is getting boring :beam:
Don't worry you have scored worse in other cases.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/cegorach/NewBitmapImage2-1.jpg
Don't worry- just throw more money at the problem and it'll go away.
She said "drastic action," including an injection of 4.5 billion pounds, was needed to meet a government target of halving the number of children in poverty by 2010.:dizzy2:
The_Doctor
02-15-2007, 16:21
Don't worry- just throw more money at the problem and it'll go away.
It doesn't sound like they are throwing money. They are going to inject 4.5 billions pounds into each poor child, so that they die, in a rather ironic manner, thus halving the number of poor children by 2010.:no:
The problem is not poverty, far from it. The biggest problems are poor standards of education, poor parenting and lack of discipline therein.
Because if the UN says so then it must be true!!!
What a joke of a study. No mention of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. I guess those societies are far too 'dog eat dog' for the nanny state, socialist minded UN. I can just imagine what the panel was thinking when they put this study together... "Like, OMG they really do eat dogs in South Korea! Ewww, those icky yellow people with their canine diets and their capitalistic mores and those ridiculous notions of self reliance... yuck!"
Dog eat dog societies! Pure evil. Ye gods, the ill effects of a rabidly meritocratic and capitalistic system! How dare we separate the wheat from the chaff!
I also find it hysterical that UNICEF went to such great lengths to determine the overall welfare of children in nations that clearly need little to no improvement compared to their less developed counterparts. Because when you're intent on saving the world from itself it is far more important to start with countries like Britain versus say, Somalia where Kimba and his bloated buddies self are barely strong enough to swat the flies off their lips.
:furious3:
Don Corleone
02-15-2007, 16:58
UN studies are a crock. When the UN special commission on hunger held a $5000/plate lunch to discuss the causes of chronic hunger 6 years ago, I stopped listening to anything that junta of socialist policy-wonks had to say.
Edit: Oops, sorry about the Freudian slip there.
cegorach
02-15-2007, 17:01
Because if the UN says so then it must be true!!!
[QUOTE]What a joke of a study. No mention of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. I guess those societies are far too 'dog eat dog' for the nanny state,
It explains not enough data was gathered, partly because of lack of assistance.
Besides in concerns northern countries only.:book:
Its just a rank among 21 highly developed nations. The actual differences could still by rather small. One can end up as last in a 100 meter race and still just be a few 1/100 seconds slower than the winner you know...
CBR
UN studies are a crock.
Because if the UN says so then it must be true!!!
Nice to see knee-jerk anti-UN reactions. Have either of you read the report?
What a joke of a study. No mention of Japan
OK, you've not read it. It's a study of OECD countries for which data is available. Japan is mentioned on some indicators, but not most (there seem to be about 20 or so of them). The data was not collected by the UN, but by the national governments, the OECD etc. Surprisingly, the UK collects more data about its citizens than does Somalia. :rolleyes: Believe me, UNICEF would love to analyse similar data from poor countries, if it existed.
The report is a free download available from the BBC and very readable:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/13_02_07_nn_unicef.pdf
It's rather informative. For example, I find it interesting how the country rankings on subjective well being correlate (negatively) with those on risk taking behaviours. UK kids drink more, smoke more, do more drugs, have more sex, eat more AND end up feeling more miserable.
Adrian II
02-15-2007, 18:38
The problem is not poverty, far from it. The biggest problems are poor standards of education, poor parenting and lack of discipline therein.The report says nothing about parenting and discipline. Is this your personal interpretation? It deals with family structure and peer relationships, though, and it is quite revealing in some ways.
As the authors indicate there are hard measures and soft measures for childrens' well-being. One can dispute the soft measures, but not the hard ones. Discarding the bad news as political propaganda betrays scant regard for the well-being of children.
One hard measure is health and safety: infant mortality, birthweight, percentage of kids immunized against disease, number of accidents and injuries. If the United States stands at 82 and Sweden at 121 (with OECD average = 100), this means Sweden does a far better job than the U.S. with regard to health and safety of kids. There is no way around it. This has nothing to do with GDP. On infant mortality the U.S. does worse than Malta. Ever been to Malta? A piss-poor agricultural society with fewer doctors and hospitals per capita than anywhere else in the industrialized world.
I am not surprised that countries with strong Socialist and Christian Democrat traditions have the highest average scores. Most of these measures reflect the way a society organises itself, its degree of social cohesion and the range of its state-backed social arrangements. No surprise there. If people refuse to hear that, they do so at their own risk - or rather, the risk of their own kids.
Family structure and discipline are linked pretty closely.
For example the complete lack of structure and discipline in a lot of British families.
Adrian II
02-15-2007, 19:42
Family structure and discipline are linked pretty closely. For example the complete lack of structure and discipline in a lot of British families.As this is one of the soft measures, it is wide open to interpretation. Supposing that you are right, why do you think British and American families appear to be far less structured and disciplined than other western families?
As this is one of the soft measures, it is wide open to interpretation. Supposing that you are right, why do you think British and American families appear to be far less structured and disciplined than other western families?
No idea about America. Here is probably because all the older social structures have fallen apart, lots of immigration, and the end of all the old industries.
Case study... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6366255.stm)
'Why always us, this is getting boring :beam:
It must be all the gay, paedo sex. You know how the kids love it.
Don't worry you have scored worse in other cases.
Nobody's perfect, but gawd do we get close and look good doing so
ShadeHonestus
02-16-2007, 11:11
No idea about America.
Its about women becoming men and men becoming women and both drowning their children in the bath tub because they can't understand why neither of them are happy. :smash:
Lorenzo_H
02-16-2007, 13:18
I can understand all this, being a teenager in the UK at the moment. There is so much alcohol, drugs, sex and violence among my fellow peers.
Tribesman
02-16-2007, 14:01
Don't worry- just throw more money at the problem and it'll go away.
Interesting , you object to government investment for job creation , education and development programs .
You must have been really happy when Shrub didn't adequately fund his leave children behind program then .:inquisitive:
Nice to see knee-jerk anti-UN reactions. Have either of you read the report?
Its funny isn't it ,how peole can either acept or reject things without even looking at them or the background . Whats even funnier is when they have a really really stong reaction without even looking .
Humans eh :shrug:
Interesting , you object to government investment for job creation , education and development programs .
You must have been really happy when Shrub didn't adequately fund his leave children behind program then .:inquisitive: The act should never have happened to begin with.
I can understand all this, being a teenager in the UK at the moment. There is so much alcohol, drugs, sex and violence among my fellow peers.
Yep, I went to Worcester (I live in a village near Warwick) a couple of weeks ago and saw three seperate groups of girls (at different times) who couldn't have been more than ten or eleven smoking, in full view, in a public area. I know that some of my younger sister's friends are buying (for their friends/boyfriends) condoms for people's birthdays (my sister is essentially a virus/spyware collector, swears once every two sentences when my parents are out of the room, etc.). I know a moderate number (I go to a private school, so this is a much smaller figure than in state schools, I think) of people my age (15/16) who smoke (although it's legal for most of 'em now, they've been doing this for a few years now), do drugs, get drunk and pick fights on a regular basis.
Adrian II
02-16-2007, 19:46
Nobody's perfect, but gawd do we get close and look good doing soWe don't.
Relative to GDP, the Czech Republic is the clear winner. They do remarkably well on a number of measures such as education. Seems we can all learn something from the Czechs.
Of course a good start would be to send Fragony there for the purpose of re-education.
Blodrast
02-16-2007, 23:41
We don't.
Relative to GDP, the Czech Republic is the clear winner. They do remarkably well on a number of measures such as education. Seems we can all learn something from the Czechs.
Of course a good start would be to send Fragony there for the purpose of re-education.
Of the Czechs, or of Fragony ?:clown:
Well Britain basically has two different types of childhood.
You either have money, and probably have a good time, or you don't, and have a miserable time. Ironically of course those with money probably do more of the underage drinking, drugs and sex, they just don't get in trouble over it.
.
:yes:
as part of that age group, there is far too much drink, drugs and sex (arguable ovr whether those are bad things or not) around, and its normally the wrong people who get targeted for it... im not sure how it could be prevented though
:2thumbsup:
Tribesman
02-17-2007, 05:23
The act should never have happened to begin with.
What parts of the act are you against , or are you against the whole act ?
Actually come to think of it , are you against any and all government involvement in or funding of education ?:inquisitive:
macsen rufus
02-17-2007, 12:24
Quite agree - Britain has the worst kids :yes:
(This could just be sour grapes that they're all having the fun I never had at that age ..... )
Seems that when I was young, kids were scared of grown-ups. Now it's the other way round, they have too many "rights" and no responsibilities and a serious "am I bovvered?" attitude. Gah!
Oh, god, I'm feeling faint.... I keep getting these sudden and inexplicable urges to read the Daily Mail :help:
Fisherking
02-18-2007, 10:50
Going farther than just the link… It said that UK, US, & Ireland had the most violent behaviour in their children.
I am inclined to believe this, what ever the cause. It is a bit unsettling.
I am not inclined to take the full quantitative measurement as entirely without bias but all of it cannot be simply dismissed.
I don't know that you can just blame media either, as most of the world watches the same TV programs…so what is it about the majority of the English speaking world that brings this out?
Some of it undoubtedly is the gang subculture and wanabes with peer pressure in that direction. But what is also disturbing to me is that the Sociologists are going to have a field day playing with this and they never get it right on the first 10 or 15 tries.
I may be wrong, but I don't see throwing money at this as the solution. I think you may have to work on one kid at a time………
rory_20_uk
02-20-2007, 01:35
Parents want to be their children's friends. To discipline might risk upsetting the child and therefore is bad. Teachers aren't allowed to discipline either, nor are children allowed to fail anything. That leaves the police who can't be everywhere, and even then what can they do?
Children like to rebel. But if they are allowed to do almost everything, then rebelling becomes extremely difficult.
Throwing money isn't going to work. All it does is make children more spoilt. I would have thought that for children to have a small time of deprivation would allow them to be more happy with what they have than constantly complaining about what they need.
Of course in terms of numbers it takes hardly any to portray an appalling situation, even if the majority are diligently working.
Going back c. 100 years this just didn't happen. Poor kids had to work from an early age, and discipline was harsh. The rich treated their kids with severity that would get the NSPCC in fits, and the middle classes aped the rich classes in widespread neglect.
In my primary school (7-13) when a teacher entered the room we had to stand up. When a teacher went to a door a pupil opened it. It was expected of us and we did it. We didn't mind it, as it was "normal". By 13 we generally got on extremely well with the teachers and had interesting classes. Discipline was so inherent that it was extremely rare for it to be used - we were just used to behaving, and I think we all benefited from that.
~:smoking:
ShadeHonestus
02-20-2007, 01:40
I don't think the education system is to blame at all. Well at least not here in the states. Just look at the lengths some young hot blonde teachers are going to in Florida to involve their male students. If that isn't dedication...
Hahha thats completely diffrent from what goes on in my school (9th grade). If the teacher isnt authoritarian sometimes, then the class goes wild. My new spanish teacher is weak, which means alot. She doesnt go straight for the refferals and detentions so people throw stuff and chat with friends while she is teaching. It gets kind of annoying while im actually awake and trying to learn.
We don't.
Relative to GDP, the Czech Republic is the clear winner. They do remarkably well on a number of measures such as education. Seems we can all learn something from the Czechs.
Of course a good start would be to send Fragony there for the purpose of re-education.
Send the guy who wrote the article instead, but yeah we can learn a lot from the Czech, like brewing great pints!
Adrian II
02-20-2007, 10:52
Send the guy who wrote the article instead, but yeah we can learn a lot from the Czech, like brewing great pints!Not pints, Fragony; pilsener.
Czechs brew pilsener. Named after the town of Pilzen. Can you guess were it is located? :mellow:
I will file the request for your re-education anyway, if you don't mind. :dozey:
File it under 'has been tried', best to leave it like this, there can be only one scrabble champ
Justiciar
02-20-2007, 15:32
"Them were the good ol' days."
Poor us? :inquisitive:
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