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View Full Version : AI Diplomatic Behavior . . . Odd?



Count Belisarius
02-15-2007, 22:32
Yes, yes, before anyone starts, I am perfectly aware that the RTW diplomatic engine, well . . . sucks. Diplomacy is unfathomable, alliances mean nothing, the AI is insane, and so on, and so forth. But playing on VH/M (the only way to go IMHO), there is, or at least has been, at least one constant on which I thought I could rely: sharing a border with a playable AI faction will result in war, sooner rather than later, but especially if the AI is of comparable strength and is more-or-less at peace with its other neighbors. That is, until my most recent campaign as the Romani.

Starting out, I quickly put the Epeiroi in their place, crushing their army in Kalabria, taking Tara along the way, and effectively ending the war. They accepted peace and trade on the first try. Being somewhat strapped for cash, in part because garrisoning ethnically-Hellenic Taras is so labor-intensive, I moved on the Eutheuroi down in Rhegion. So far so good.

Marching my "main" stack back north, I expanded slowly northwards, taking Segesta, Bononia, Patavium and Mendilanum. "Slowly" because the GOD-D*MNED Samnite Eutheuroi kept spawning in numbers too large for local garrisons to handle, and because the 4,328-star uber-general in Bononia absolutely, positively REFUSED to die like a good barbarian should.

Still, plenty of progress was being made, and as the cash started rolling in, I built up an anti-Eutheuroi semi-stack, a respectable fleet and a second field army for the invasion of Sicilia. Assaulted Messana, but took heavy losses, which was problematic because Messana shares a border with my erstwhile ally, Kart-Hadast, which was then besieging Syrakousai. Leaving my faction heir and a garrison of light troops to keep the peace in Messana, my Southern army took ship for home for retraining and reinforcement.

Immediately after my army left Sicilia, Kart-Hadast landed a HUGE stack near Lilybeo, which immediately headed into my newly-conquered territory of Messana. I thought fore sure that the First Punic War was about to be on, and that my heir was toast. But then, Syrakousai repelled its besiegers, and instead of diverting there or attacking Messana, the Kart-Hadast gigantor-stack ignored BOTH cities, moving up into Brettium. So of COURSE I'm thinking the target is Rhegion, which, after all, is quite valuable economically.

Marching (instead of sailing) back to Sicilia from Roma, I expected to meet the Kart-Hadast at Rhegion. Oh, but no. Instead, they marched PAST Rhegion, ignored my army, and proceeded to march back and forth, up and down, side to side, on the Italian Peninsula for several turns, accomplishing nothing. I let them go on, in part because in role-playing the Romani, I don't attack my allies (and the pre-game alliance still held) or factions who are not at war with my allies. Also, I was just plain curious, having never seen this type of behavior on VH/X.

Bewildered, I checked the diplomatic screen, thinking maybe they were locked in a death-grapple with the Ptolemoi or even the Lusotannan. Nothing. I checked the military/economic stats - they were beating me in virtually every category. I pulled my Southern field army back to Capua, and waited, and waited . . . and waited.

Eventually, the Kart-Hadast did attack Messana and Syrakousai both, but not until - no joke - TWENTY YEARS (not turns, 4tpy) had passed.

In that time, I took (and settled) most of Gaul, everything (worth taking) on what is now the Balkan Peninsula (the northern Getai territories are worthless), Byzantion, Krete, Rhodos, Kypros, and a half of "Asia."

Anybody had a similar experience on a high difficulty setting? Better yet, a possible explanation?

Sdragon
02-15-2007, 23:04
Seen this before, yup! Also as Seleucids the Ptolemies(sp) kept walking troops from Asia Minor to Egypt through my territory. AI has no idea how to handle a fragmented empire.

Bonny
02-15-2007, 23:18
Anybody had a similar experience on a high difficulty setting? Better yet, a possible explanation?

The RTW AI is complex (no joke) and influenced by many things.
What you have seen is following
The huge stack had the target to aid the Syrakus siege (Syrakus) but after the siege was broken this traget was not longer valid. The huge stack gets a new traget "get into the ship and head home". The problem is now that both the ship and the huge stack had to find a place where both would met, which is calculated for both the army and the ship. The calculated place for teh army is the land tile nearest to the ship and the place for the ship is the water tile nearest to the army. These calculations were made before the army/ship moves. Every turn the place is calculated again and they may each other one time (or not) if the army doesn't gets anew target, what has happend in your game (the sicilian cities)

This ship thing might not be the reason but it is highly likely. I have seen some picture describing this situation: several carthage fullstacks are wandering back and forth along the african coast, and some ships are swimming back and forth to the coast just out of reach. Both the ships and the many armys are always mising each other.

turn one

place of ship place of army
ship----------------------------> army
ship<----------------------------army

turn two

place of army place of ship
army--------------------------->ship
army<---------------------------ship

and so on....

regarding alliances: The AI is programmed to always attack the player if it can choose the enemy (and you are not part of amultiple faction alliance).
If you are allied to the ai he will set war on you as soon as you share a border.
To make the Alliance last CA has given the player a diplomatic tool: Tributes
As long as you pay tributes the AI is unlikely to attack you and break the alliance. Little amounts are enough (100 mani 20 turns...) but you can give them higher ones if you like.
In reward the ai send presents to you and won't attack you (at least not immidiantely), after you share a border.

Dumbass
02-16-2007, 12:19
This bug is very common and happens basically all the time when I play as the romans (until i batter carthage out of sicily).