Regarding battle formations...

[Axelus]

I saw someone discussing the formations/AI battle behavior in EB,
but the post was closed due to its negative contents.

IMO, compared to vanilla, The AI is very much of an improvement. I've also played Darthmod and RTR, and I believe its equally good, or even better than those mods.
In EB I've lost battles which, initially looks as a certain victory. One time I had the advantage of a defensive position on a steep hilltop with very superior ranged units and cavalry and nearly equally melee. The AI engaged me with aggressive and complex flankings, cunningly routing my missile units, and made any cavalry flanking mission of my own impossible. The AI always seemed to had the initiative.
Also skirmishing units and archers using their primary weapon, but always in safety near the infantry.
I'm not saying its perfect, but to go say it's completely rubbish, as some guy did, seems very naive and unthoughtful. I believe that the developers of EB needs my many thanks for an awesome job on the battle AI!
:balloon2: :clown: :balloon2:
Is there someone else than me that feels
absolutely satisfied and happy about the AI's performance?

[Numahr]

As I mentionned in the initial thread, I am, indeed, very impressed by AI battle behavior in EB. It moves its troop in a generally very clever and consistent way, and it is able to surprise me sometimes. Althouth it remains quite often easy to control or exploit... But well, for an non-human AI, what can you ask for? I really think the EB team just made the best out of it...

[Sdragon]

I've only ever seen the crazy AI pinning itself against the map boundary during reinforcement battles when the AI has 2 big armies. That was pre 0.8 though, yet to fight such a battle on this version though. But then again I have yet to fight horse archer stacks in EB so maybe it happens with just them?

[Dayve]

It seems there is only me that is so disappointed with the way the battle AI behaves... Call me a perfectionist, but i do so hate it when the AI starts a battle, runs half way across the map to make their units exhausted, then stops and puts them in single file and proceeds to let you slaughter each unit, front to back, piecemeal.

I'm sorry, i just had to complain about it.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It really is fine to complain about it Dayve. No problem there (as long as you or anyone else doesn't start calling the people who do and have worked on it a bunch of chimpanzees). There certainly are things that need work on in it (in regards to formations) - we have tried recently to get someone who knows a lot about them to chip in but haven't had success so far in making that part go through yet.

[-Praetor-]

I`ve tried Darthmod and other mods with marked improvements on formations, and I can say that I like the work made with EB`s formations. They are noticeably good, but I have to make a healthy observation regarding 2 separate points:

1º The fact that the starting formations (for example, the manipular formation that the AI assigns to my roman legion at the battle deployment screen) can`t be recreated during the battle. With Darthmod, I could rearrange my legions during battle by selecting the group and pressing SHIFT-4 (or something) and magically my legions formed again into a full manipular disposition. This is something that EB lacks, despite that it`s manipular formation is flawless.

2º The cohesion. This is a topic of the utmost importance. Lemme explain:

Sometimes (generally, but excluiding barbaric factions), the AI doesn`t attack as a cohesionated force. They make good use of archers, extremely good use of skirmishers (something I commend the developers for), the cavalry do constant flanking (the general is a little bit suicidal, but it`s acceptable), but they don`t attack as a cohesive force. No matter they are hellenne, eastern or carthaginean, they don`t attack as a solid block. They lack the cohesion that I see when fighting against Aeduii-Arvernii, and that I saw pretty regularly with every faction (except nomads) in Darthmod. That`s something that I think should be polished in the already good work of EB`s formations.

Now something entirely different is when talking about the enemy reinforcement army. The AI of that specifical army is hideous, dunno why. I`ve even seen that sometimes they act just like Davye said in this previous post ( number #4).

Cheers!

[blacksnail]

It seems there is only me that is so disappointed with the way the battle AI behaves... Call me a perfectionist, but i do so hate it when the AI starts a battle, runs half way across the map to make their units exhausted, then stops and puts them in single file and proceeds to let you slaughter each unit, front to back, piecemeal.
I have never seen that, even back in 0.74. I haven't even heard people report it. Did you install one of the formation mods over Vanilla or over EB 0.8 prior to playing? I can't think of anything else that could explain the behavior you describe.

[-Praetor-]

Sometimes, the particular AI of the reinforcement armies is caotic to say the least. But that`s a problem that I`ve found only sometimes, and only with the enemy reinforcements, when their armies are big.

Not with the main enemy army.

I`ve experienced such episodes in every mod I`ve played (Darthmod, RTR, Terra Expugnandae, and also EB). I would think that`s a vainilla problem, rather than one of this mod...

It`s extremely annoying when it happens btw.

[Mr Jones]

a bit OT, but i also really hate the AI when they control reinforcement armies. back in the days before EB was released i was playing vanilla as the bruttii and had two armies, one was about 9 units or illyrian mercenaries and the other was a full stack of various units with a couple of generals and was a very good army. both were standing right next to a greek city with a strong army (and one of my spies) inside. i attacked with my illyrian mercenary army (i like those guys) and allowed the computer to control my reinforcing army. due to the utter lack of any kind of challenge presented by the AI, and the fact that my spy had opened the gates for me, i decided a mass suicidal charge with my illyrian mercenaries was the order of the day. i expected them all to be routed without much trouble, but that my reinforcing army would come in and finish the job. so anyway, i placed all the units in a big mob (with units overlapping one another) and charged the gate defended by hoplites and skirmishers for the most part, a decent garrison. i decided to let my mercenaries unleash their javelins into the garrison, which proved a mistake as many were killed by friendly fire because they were so tightly packed together, and also suffered heavily from the return fire from enemy skirmishers., unperturbed, my brave illyrians charged and began a mass slaughter of the enemy forces. routing units of hoplites regrouped in the town square while their comrades were slaughtered. this was going much better than i planned. however, when i reached the town square the surviving greeks managed to route my troops and send them packing, about the same time my big reinforcement army was approaching the city. so what did my AI controlled army do? charge in to finish off the greeks? at least make some attempt to take the city? even send in one unit at a time to face the remaining phalanx units? nope. despite the fact that the gates were busted open they decided instead to send units all over the battlefield (except for the town) for no reason, or even worse, stand my believed units of bastarnae mercenaries in front of the towers until they were all dead. eventually the time ran out and the enemy won.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I agree that the battle AI is crappy, though that is mostly RTWs fault. I also agree with k_raso's post on both points (formation and cohesion). Adding that one other think I hate is how no matter what formation they start in, the AI will usually form a single line formation with all of their infanty/missile units. Sometimes this means that an enemy army will strech halfway across the battlemap.

Now something entirely different is when talking about the enemy reinforcement army. The AI of that specifical army is hideous, dunno why. I`ve even seen that sometimes they act just like Davye said in this previous post ( number #4).
Yes, the only time I've seen the AI act totally wacky was when it was the reinfocements. I defeated a big army and just as they were fleeing, their reinforcements arrived. I lined up and waited. They split into two groups. The little group stayed near where they entered, facing away from me. And the big group went around my left flank and lined up parrallel to me facing away from their entrance.

Pointless, but since I can't describe it well, this is what they did:

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6600/maabattlepointlessmj2.jpg

[Ludens]

I agree with k_raso's comments, especially the one about cohesion. The A.I. as a whole fights better than in vanilla, but there is often little coordination between the actions of various units.

Also, a comment about the ctrl-formations: in R:TW, when I put a couple of units in single-line formation, they line up left to right, both on the battlefield and on the interface. However, when I do this in EB, they will either be sorted according to unit type or line up right to left. That means that the left-most unit on my interface is the right-most unit on the battlefield. Since I use the interface more to keep track of where units are than to control them, I find this annoying. Can this be changed back to how it was in R:TW?

[Orb]

Pedantic nitpicking (:shame: on me):

cohesionated = cohesive

[Damasus]

Has anyone else had a battle where the AI just runs away? For example, I've had a couple battles in my Roman campaign where the AI will attack me (although I'll usually outnumber them by a significant margin) but when I fight the battle they all withdraw. I'm okay with them withdrawing when I instigate the battle, but when they attack and then withdraw it seems a little odd. Other then that oddity (which I'm not sure is so much a formation thing as it is an AI quirk) I've been very impressed with EB's formations. :2thumbsup:

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Has anyone else had a battle where the AI just runs away?
Far too many times...

[abou]

What irritates me the most is when the AI refuses to do anything in a battle without a time limit - i.e. siege battles.

I just spent all this effort keeping a besieging army off my walls and destroying their equipment; then the AI just sits there. Rather than retreat they force me to attack them, which usually involves them chasing a cavalry unit around the walls.

Just irritating, but EB battles are too long to risk playing with a time limit.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Oh, I've got an annoying one that I've actually run into several times.

You're beseiging a city...
The enemy decides they can take out the seigers so they sally forth...
Upon geeting to the battle map, they change their minds and decide to remain behind their walls...
Triple time, time limit runs out, draw...
Back on strat map, immidiately they decide their can take on your besiege army...
Upon geeting to the battle map, they change their minds and decide to remain behind their walls...
Triple time, time limit runs out, draw...
Back on strat map, immidiately they decide their can take on your besiege army...
Upon geeting to the battle map, they change their minds and decide to remain behind their walls...
Et Cetera
(auto calculating results in a crushing defeat)

The AI can sally forth five times in one turn. I read this in one of the patch notes and now I know it for a fact. This can easily be reproduced yourselves (although it happens without doing this, this will cause it). When they ready themselves to sally out the gate, make a hole in their wall (with a ram or ballista). The hole in their wall will set them in defensive mode and they won't come out. They will "sally forth" again after the timer runs out and returns you to the strat map though.

[Thaatu]

This is probably a vanilla bug, but sometimes the attacking AI freezes if there is an object in their way. Ie, if there's a pile of rocks or ruins of a temple between the AI and me, I have to move around the object and only then the AI attacks. Has anyone else had trouble with something like this?

Dayve: Your delivery was a bit rough in the initial thread, but it did trigger some serious discussion. A good rule of thumb: try not to insult people.
Though I fail to see how calling someone a chimpanzee is an insult (chimps are awesome!! :hippie: ).