Out of character thread II

[OverKnight]

Sweet. Congrats Warluster. :2thumbsup:

Sounds like a great deal is going on Ignoramus. While I know a Chancellor's work is never done :juggle2: , is there any chance we could get a Chancellor's report at some point? The saves provide a snapshot of what's going on but a report would help to fill in the blanks.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

[Ignoramus]

I'll try. Its just these annoying screenshots that take so long to upload.

I'll try to write up a bit after the defence of Bologna.(Wish me luck as it doesn't look good at all:thumbsdown: )

[OverKnight]

I know screenies can be a pain in the butt, but you only need a few if any for a Chancellor's report. I'm more interested in developments since the second part of the term began. We have the battle reports and the saves, we just need some context to place those in.

For example, last I knew those polish nobles that Kag defeated were besieging Stettin, what happened to drive them off? Was Dietrich pursuing them? Was the move by Dietrich into polish territory part of a larger plan? Stuff like that.

Good luck with Bologna, I'm sorta glad I chose Innsbruck as my county now. :laugh4:

If we do take Venice at some point we should definitely tear it down and salt the earth. They've been a major pain.

[Ignoramus]

The Poles lifted the siege and Dietrich pursued them. The Polish attacked him the next turn.

Bolonga's lost. We killed most of their knights but even unarmoured Town Militia are no match for Armoured Sergeants.

[Warluster]

Yay! i got Jobst von Salza, even the name sounds cool!

I shall serve the HRE forever! Through War or Peace!

[OverKnight]

It's too bad there's a crusade on in Tunis, otherwise we could bribe the Pope a bit and propose a crusade on Venice itself. At least we have a free hand against the bastards now, though it looks like we'll need some time to go back on the offense.

We should take care not to kill their faction leader, we wouldn't want them to be reconciled.

Ah to live in interesting times :laugh4: .

Thanks for the update Ignoramus.

Edit: Is our new elector knighted? Or does he need another battle under his belt?

[Ignoramus]

I assume he's earnt it by defeating the Venetians while captain(hence his promotion to general). I hope I'm not wrong.

[econ21]

I assume he's earnt it by defeating the Venetians while captain(hence his promotion to general).

No - he's got to earn his spurs like everyone else.

I'm not sure why you have put a placeholder down for the defence of Bologna. Sigismund was not there, so surely it should have been an autoresolve?

[Warluster]

Well even if I needed another battle under my belt, I jsut got one, recently won the Battle of the Alps, thats a victory under my belt.

[Kagemusha]

The Poles lifted the siege and Dietrich pursued them. The Polish attacked him the next turn.

So i was pursuing elite missile cavalry with my rag tag army? Are you trying to get me killed m8?:sweatdrop:

[econ21]

We don't seem to be following the game rules - only army commanders can manually fight battles. Only knights can be appointed army commanders. Knights are created by serving with distinction in a battle fought by an army commander. These rules were set to give some role-playing structure to the PBM.

[Ignoramus]

I thought that the Chancellor played out battles by captains. Do they have to be autoresolved?

I really have made a mess of things. Sorry.

[econ21]

I thought that the Chancellor played out battles by captains. Do they have to be autoresolved?

Yes, autoresolve unless an army commander (player) is in charge. That ensures the placement of player controlled generals is regarded as important, helps share out the battles and gives the AI more of a chance.

Let's play on from where we are. In view of his victory, Warluster's avatar can be regarded as knighted and made an army commander. But let's stick to the rules henceforth.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry about that. I should read the rules more. In that case, please delete that placeholder in the Battle Report thread.

To everyone else, I apologise for not following the rules. Although it was accidental, I should have been paying more attention to them. I am sorry, and it will not happen again.

Ignoramus.

Edit: Warluster thought he uploaded the save game, but he hasn't. Could you please tell him how to do it econ?(I am not a very good explainer)

[AussieGiant]

No - he's got to earn his spurs like everyone else.

I'm not sure why you have put a placeholder down for the defence of Bologna. Sigismund was not there, so surely it should have been an autoresolve?

:whip:

[AussieGiant]

Hi Ignoramus,

That's why I mentioned the "Big Touble" comment above :yes:

Using auto resolve I knew we where going to be minced meat :laugh4:

No blood no foul as they say.

I expect Northern Italy to get ugly soon now that Econ has double checked with us about the rules.

[econ21]

Warluster thought he uploaded the save game, but he hasn't. Could you please tell him how to do it econ?(I am not a very good explainer)

Explanation:

Before you start, make sure that you zip the savegame first, using WinRar or Powerarchiver. Then follow these three steps:

(1) Go to the PBM uploader:
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Uploaders/pbmupload.php
(the address is also in the "file space for PBM sticky if you forget later)

(2) Click one of the "browse" buttons in the middle of the screen and then choose the file you want to upload.

(3) Press the "upload" button on the lower left corner of the screen.

That's it.
To check it has worked, or to see the latest savegame, go to the PBM uploader and click the "view upload directory" link, which takes you here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm

You can sort by "last modified" to see the latest savegame.

[AussieGiant]

I also saw Vienna seiged again.

Econ, are we allowing myself to play on behalf of Ituralde?

[TinCow]

Ugg... how many Captain battles were actually fought when they should've been autoresolved?

[econ21]

Econ, are we allowing myself to play on behalf of Ituralde?

Yes. Given that Ituralde is away and is besieged, plus you are avatarless, I think that's ok.

In wots, we had a "upper house" system for members who could not fight battles. We probably should institute something similar here in future. When a player is going to be unable to fight battles, he should contact the Chancellor and arrange for his character to be moved to a place of safety. Otherwise, they risk the dreaded death by autoresolve (which would be such an anti-climactic way to go).

[TinCow]

It's not anti-climactic if your avatar's name is Publius Laevinus!

[AussieGiant]

LOL @ TC.

Sure.

[Jalf]

Any chance of an update to the library? (My character's bio doesn't have my name on it, and the family tree is a bit outdated)

[AussieGiant]

Just a question to all.

Does the game have an inbuilt Frame Rate counter?

[Dutch_guy]

Just a question to all.

Does the game have an inbuilt Frame Rate counter?

No, you'd need something along the lines of FRAPS (http://fraps.com/).

Free, easy to use and it counts frame rates. Plus, it's handy for screenies as well.

:balloon2:

[Ignoramus]

Ugg... how many Captain battles were actually fought when they should've been autoresolved?

Only 2, and I've lost both of them.

[econ21]

There seems to be a hiatus while we wait for Warluster to load his save. Any chance of using the time to write a Chancellor's report, Ignoramus? I've just had a look a the latest save and it is a very tense situation, with lots of battles looming with Venice, rebels, Milan and the Poles. We don't need anything fancy, just a context for what is likely to be a spate of battles etc.

[Kagemusha]

Econ,Im bit confused,but has Warluster fought a battle after this savegame?

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1136.zip

[econ21]

I don't know, but I assume so. Ignoramus said Warluster had not uploaded his save. From this thread it looks like Warluster fought a battle between 6-8am this morning, but the savegame was posted 6-8 hours earlier. Ignoramus should be able to clarify this.

[Kagemusha]

Ok.Thanks for the info.:bow: It seems there are quit a few battles coming on our way soon.Lets hope we are not beaten back into Germany on all fronts:sweatdrop: .

[OverKnight]

If I could switch gears for a second, I'd like to address family tree issues and avatar placement again. I know dry subject but I brought a visual aid:

https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1818/familytreeef4.jpg

As you can see most adoptions have happened, I think due to game mechanics, in the Swabian and Franconian houses. That's great, the more avatars in play the better. However, as you can see Austria is getting the short end of the stick, and Bavaria, on the family tree at least, doesn't exist yet.

I think it is time to even things out a bit by not using the family tree as a strict guide to the houses. I think many of us agree that AussieGiant deserves an avatar, but if we followed the family tree, when would he get one?

Also project this tree forward a generation or two, even if Bavaria and Austria do start getting avatars the tree will still be lopsided, with a majority of family members in Swabia and Franconia.

I know we want to sync the Family Tree to the Duchies so it's pretty and makes sense, but at some point, and I think we're reaching it, this will have a detrimental effect on the PBM.

Thoughts?

Edit: If it's any help, I'd volunteer to be Imperial Genealogist to keep track of who's in what house.

[Jalf]

Tricky one, yeah. Tbh, not sure how it should be handled. Might be worth keeping in mind that the Bavarian chick will come of age in only a couple of turns though, and since they usually get a marriage offer almost immediately, that would give us at least one bavarian avatar.

But after that? Hard to say. It is possible that things will even out (because the Swabia and Franconia are pretty much full, it looks like Austria will be next in line for adoptions, and then probably Bavaria. I don't know exactly how it's assigned, but it looks like it just works its way down the family tree breadth-first, "filling up" one generation at a time, and for each generation just going left -> right until all members of that generation are "full". Which means it will be ages before Swabia and Franconia get new adoptions.

So I suggest we wait a bit to see if it shows signs of evening out.

Also it should be possible to get some of the Franconian and Swabian women to marry into the two other houses when they come of age. Either that, or they could travel the world a bit before marrying, to limit the growth a bit.

[OverKnight]

Only princesses, daughters of the current ruler, get a represenative on the game map, unlike other daughters of marriageable age. The only princess we're due at the moment is Elsebeth, Heinrich's youngest daughter.

Adoptions tend to occur starting with the eldest son, Henry the heir, and then move to the second son, Dietrich. If it stayed that way, Leopold would be up next, but it seems that Sigismund, as Henry's eldest (adopted) son, is now getting adoptees. If it continues to follow this pattern I doubt Austria or Bavaria will get many adoptees at all.

[Kagemusha]

There is much sense in what Overknight is saying,but i would first wait until Von Mandorf have married and also to see where the next adoptions will go. Also its a clear possibility that we could have dead avatars soon. So the situation between houses could chance completely.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Mandorf, being a general, won't marry unless it's into the Imperial Family, and I'm not going to send the current princess to him when she comes of age. Most likely I'm going to marry her off to Otto, who should see some adoptions because he (IIRC) is older than Sigismund.

If we still don't get anything from that I suggest that some of the newer Swabian and Franconian generals "defect" to one of the other two houses in order to keep the balance going.

[econ21]

For comparison, here's the family tree towards the end of the Will of the Senate PBM:

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/RTR%20Senate%20PBM/255/family_tree_255.jpg

I'm assuming M2TW follows similar conventions as RTW, but am open to correction on that.

From Wots, you can see that eventually all four lines get avatars although the fourth - Titus Vatinius? - is distinctly short-changed. However, the third, the Aemili, was arguably the dominant family in the game.

I do want to keep the tie between Houses and branches of the family tree, as it is so neat. But I am aware of the potential problems over unequal assigment of avatars. I don't think it is a big problem at the moment - AussieGiant was mentioned, but IIRC he only got a computer that could play M2TW a week or so ago, so it is not like he has been sidelined for a long time. All the players without avatars are generally fairly new entrants to the PBM, having voted in only one or two of the four Diet votes so far. I will start to really worry when some folk still don't have avatars and we have avatars spawning in Houses with no avatarless players waiting.

At the moment, Franconia has no waiting players so Ignoramus has been instructed not to accept any more adoptions into that House. Swabia is likely to get the next adoptee and as xdeathfire is still without an avatar, I am not inclined to instruct Ignoramus to turn another Swabian down. However, beyond that point, we should not accept any more Swabian adoptions.

I don't know if turning down Franconian and Swabian adoptees will give a chance for the other Houses to adopt. I am working on that assumption, but it is hard to test. In a run through a moment ago, I turned down a Swabian (the one destined for xdeathfire) and got no new adoptees in the 5 or so turns I played on. I think we may have reached the steady state ratio of avatars to settlements, so unless we conquer more settlements, we may not see many more avatars in a hurry.

On the issue of Elsebeth, she is 14 now and will come of age in 1144 - about 5 turns from now. That will put the Bavarian House on the map, so to speak. I don't know what is better - refuse any offers of marriage, so that Mandorf or Otto can marry her and become Duke; or accept an offer so that a new avatar is spawned for lilirishman1986 or nazgul3. From the principle of putting more bums on seats, I am inclined to the latter path although I guess we should leave that decision to her father, Generalhankerchief.

Bottomline: I recognise that this issue is extremely important, but I think we should hold off radical steps until we get to the situation where no avatarless player can be assigned a new general because they are all in the wrong House.

EDIT: The final point to note from wots is that sooner or later, the number of avatars is likely to far outnumber the number of active players, so this should be mainly a transitional problem.

[GeneralHankerchief]

IIRC, there was some discussion earlier about having Elsebeth just marrying whatever person comes along and having them join Bavaria to eventually become Duke. I could perhaps do that and it would make sure that players got avatars quicker, but as far as role-playing goes I would like to see the von Kassel family expand (although that worked so well with Dietrich :wall: ).

[OverKnight]

Thanks for the answers everyone. I realize this isn't a crisis yet, but it's something we should keep an eye on.

I know AussieGiant hasn't been avatarless all that long, but considering his time with the game and his contributions I think he merits the next avatar. This meshes nicely with the fact that Austria has only one avatar at the moment, Leopold is a Duke without an entourage :laugh4: .

In hindsight, one of the solutions we should have considered would have been to give Bavaria to Sigismund when he spawned. He'd still have his own distinct portion of the family tree to keep track of. A little late now perhaps.

Edit: I don't think Otto would denounce Heinrich in the Diet, he's not fond of building watchtowers. I think the worst he's done has been to call the plans for invading Rome hubris. Not exactly endearing, but not treasonous.

[econ21]

Regarding Elsebeth - why don't we role play it? But marriage requires consent on both sides. Otto could decline Elsebeth's hand if Overknight wants a third Bavarian player to have an avatar quickly. I guess that's an OOC factor - in character, he may feel he's not worthy or just not stand the woman.

BTW: perhaps Otto should also instruct Ignoramus not to accept any marriage proposals before Elsebeth? I am not sure if non-royal generals do get marriage proposals, but they may.

[GeneralHankerchief]

BTW: perhaps Otto should also instruct Ignoramus not to accept any marriage proposals before Elsebeth? I am not sure if non-royal generals do get marriage proposals, but they may.

I don't think they do.

Recall the generals you were able to recruit in BI - these "starter generals" such as Dietrich von Saxony, Maximillian Mandorf, and Otto von Kassel are akin to those.

[OverKnight]

Regarding Elsebeth - why don't we role play it? But marriage requires consent on both sides. Otto could decline Elsebeth's hand if Overknight wants a third Bavarian player to have an avatar quickly. I guess that's an OOC factor - in character, he may feel he's not worthy or just not stand the woman.

BTW: perhaps Otto should also instruct Ignoramus not to accept any marriage proposals before Elsebeth? I am not sure if non-royal generals do get marriage proposals, but they may.

That puts me, as a player, in an awkward position. OOC: I would like another Bavarian avatar, but I would also like to see an established and experienced player as Duke. I've had a lot of fun plotting with TinCow. He'd be my first choice for Duke. I certainly would enjoy being Duke, but I'm uncomfortable promoting myself.

IC: Otto is ambitious, but not as ambitious as Dietrich. He wants fame and glory, Bavarian jackboots treading on the enemies of the Reich, but he hasn't set his eyes on a royal marriage like Dietrich's first incarnation. He's not going to advocate for it, but he wouldn't refuse.

I hate to be wishy-washy both IC and OOC, but I hope you realize my dilemma.

Of course I might just be over-thinking this. :juggle2:

[TinCow]

Please marry Elsebeth to Otto. Max will be a bit of a geezer by the time she comes around and I think it will just work better for RP to have Otto become the leader. It will also be interesting because Max will end up getting demoted from Steward to Count, since he can't be a Steward when there's an active Duke around. Plus, if Max isn't in the family tree, he'll never get married. All of that will go well with my RP plans for him, so let's just commit Elsebeth to Otto. GH can come up with whatever RP reason he wants for that marriage.

[econ21]

Overknight: yes, it was awkward for you to be put in that position but I think the outcome of both your and GH's in character deliberations is the plausible one.

Congratulations, you are now engaged!

:smitten: :kiss2: :flowers: :deal2: :shakehands: :dancing: ~:cheers:


Now, start writing a romance story. :whip:


:wink:

[OverKnight]

econ21, I'm not sure about the UK, but if I posted a story about the romance between a 14 year old princess and a 37 year old soldier on the net, the FBI would be breaking down my door the next day.:sweatdrop:

However, kidding aside, I think it would make for an interesting coop story or at least good RP fodder. Personally, I'm thinking this would be one of those awkward and cold political marriages, particularly considering the age difference.

[TinCow]

If it helps the storyline, Max can take a formal vow of celbacy and commit himself to never marry. That would pretty much force Heinrich to find someone else for her.

[Jalf]

What happens if one of our existing generals marry Elsebeth? Does it depend on the general's background (ie. royal descendants move Elsebeth over to their branch of the family, others are moved up to her branch?)

I never really experiemented with this, but would be good to know. If so, perhaps it would make most sense for one of us adoptees in the two "crowded" houses married her, simply to limit the growth of Franconia/Swabia.

edit: Eek, there were a lot fewer posts when I started writing this... :p

[econ21]

Jalf - that's an interesting question, I don't know. But out of character, I think Overknight is right - it's best if an established player heads the House of Bavaria at least initially. He's too modest to say it, but he fits the bill well.

TinCow - you mean Manfred is not already celibate? He certainly sounds on the road to it. But I would not worry about us needing this device as an in-game rationale for Elsebeth marrying Otto. GH seems to have his own long standnig in character reasons for preferring Otto for this match.

[OverKnight]

Jalf, it's complicated.

The game began in 1080, with four family members, Kaiser Heinrich, Prinz Henry (Duke of Swabia), Leopold (Duke of Austria) and Agnes (a Princess).

Also there were three generals (Avatars but not in the family tree, basically placeholders until the family tree grows), Dietrich von Saxony (Steward of Franconia), Maximillian Mandorf (Steward of Bavaria), and Otto von Kassel (2nd Elector of Bavaria).

A few years into the game Dietrich married Agnes so he became part of the family tree and became Duke of Franconia. His subsequent run in with the Kaiser (entertaining reading if you want to go back in the Diet) makes family reunions at the royal palace very awkward.

Bavaria is the only House left still run by a Steward. Whoever marries Elsebeth, who was born in 1082 I think, when she comes of age will be Duke of Bavaria and brought into the family tree if not there already (i.e. the title becomes hereditary instead of appointed). Most importantly Bavaria will be on the map as econ said. We can start producing kids and adoptees for Bavarian electors to play.

If Elsebeth marries someone already in the family tree, like an adoptee such as Jobst, her icon on the tree, I think, will move down to the adoptee's position. Either the adoptee or a non-family general will get a boost in loyalty from marrying into the family.

None of the houses are "too crowded" at the moment, my concern was that Austria and Bavaria would not have enough representation on the family tree in the future.

I hope that fleshes it out for you.

[Warluster]

Hi all,

I fought the battle ages ago (1 day ago) and tried to upload, and i thought I did, but obviously didn't, I will try and upload it now, sorry for tyhe wait, I was at work!

[OverKnight]

If you need any help let me know, I've done it a couple of times.

[Warluster]

Okay, I uploaded it, the new save is up, the one with ym battle won, you can do the next part now! my save is the same as last one kotr1136

[OverKnight]

Warluster, thanks for getting the save back up.

In the future, could you compress the file using .zip or .rar format before you upload it? It makes it quicker to download. Also, you might want to rename the save to differentiate it from the first one, like 1136-2 for example.

Thanks again.

[AussieGiant]

Having just read through this little blurb some of you should become geneologists :laugh4:

OverKnight raises some very good points.

Thanks for advocating me for an Avatar "OK" (That's now short for OverKnight when I type now)!!

I would prefer to wait and see, rather than forcing something artificially though.

Certainly rolepalying all this would be great fun and make the game far richer in detail and the playing experience. I think if we do that then things will balance out in the end.

I have to let the senior players know that I travel extensively for work, which means I will be able to contribute throughout the year consistently as my job involved managing an online application, but I will be away from my PC at home and unable to fight battles regularly. That is why the agreement Itarulde asked for was so important to me. When I'm "away" then I would like to select someone I know to fight my battles. I'll then speak with this person about writing things up and maintaining my presence here IC.

I must say I'm itching to get an avatar but Family Tree integraty is very important to me and all large changes should be a natural outcome of roleplaying issues. We all know that in another 10 or 30 turns there will be way too many avatars for everyone...then it will be a matter of trying to keep up:yes:

Just to give you an example of my situation:

10 March to 3rd April vacation in Australia. I'll be very limited in participating.

6th of April to 30th April: Canada and China. I wont be able to fight battles but I will be able to participate FULLY. In this instance Itarulde would fight my battles if possible.

Month of May: Home (can do both)

Is this ok with the senior team here?

Dutch_Guy,

Thanks for that. Is FRAPS going to be a performance hit on the game though?

[Ignoramus]

I'll try and speed things up now. So if generals that probably will have impending battles(AussieGiant, econ21, General Hankerchief, OverKnight, Kagemusha) can be ready to fight their battles ASAP that would be good. The reason I say this is that there are going to be a lot of battles in my remaining two turns(mainly in Italy, now that I have a free hand against the Venetians).

[econ21]

.. if generals that probably will have impending battles(AussieGiant, econ21, General Hankerchief, OverKnight, Kagemusha) can be ready to fight their battles ASAP that would be good.

As AussieGiant said earlier, it might useful to have a list of our time zones.

AFAIK, we have:

Euros
econ21
AussieGiant
Kagemusha
Ituralde
Dutch_guy
Jalf

Yanks
GeneralHankerchief
TinCow
OverKnight - but works nights
FLYdude
nazgul3
xdeathfire
AchdukeEvan

Aussies
Ignoramus
Warluster

Unknown
Bizzair
Verdizzy
lilirishman1986


I suspect most people have the chance to play out battles in their evenings, so if there are several battles in a turn, it might be best to follow this sequence: 1 Aussie => 1 Euro => 1 Yank
If the Chancellor does all he wants to do in a turn, he might be able to upload a battle and get 2-3 battles done in a day, if he allows people to pass on the savegame directly (PM the next in line when they are done).


Is this ok with the senior team here?

If you are away on travel and your avatar gets into a scrap, then it would be ok for another player to stand in for you. However, it's probably best to liase with the Chancellor to put your general out of danger during your absence. Generally, we will soon get to the stage where we have more available generals than battles for them to fight (we may even be there now), so your taking periodic timeouts won't be a problem at all.

[Dutch_guy]

Dutch_Guy,

Thanks for that. Is FRAPS going to be a performance hit on the game though?

I haven't found that to be a problem, and I'm using a mimimum of 512 Ram.

:balloon2:

[AussieGiant]

Hi Econ,

Thanks for that. Moving me out of the way will probably be the best situation once I get an avatar. Although I'll miss out on a lot of action.

Dutch Guy,

Thanks for the information.

I'll be ready to fight Ituralde's battle at about 5pm GMT +1 Swiss time Friday.

Is that ok?

[OverKnight]

I've got the next two days off starting in a few hours. I work the night shift, so even though I'm a yank, I can fight pretty much anytime unless I'm at work. I doubt they would appreciate it if I installed M2 here.

[econ21]

So, Overknight, an American who works nights - does that make you an honorary Euro or Aussie in terms of your normal time zone for gaming? (My Euro availability for fighting a battle would be sometime in my evening, 6-12pm GMT).

BTW, we've started a Duchy of Swabia thread. Other Houses might want to start similar ones to discuss their own in House matters. It's less clunky than PMs. It is also not confidential, but in some ways internal House matters should have a public element - think of it as local Parliaments or something. PMs are still available for genuine cloak and dagger stuff, but some public airing of issues might add spice to inter-House rivalry.

[TinCow]

I'll start up a Bavaria thread shortly, but I have to say that a lot of the stuff I say to other Bavarians I would not want seen publicly.

[econ21]

On my Diet proposal to consult Dukes about defence of their realms: I am not proposing any mandatory powers for the Dukes. We went down that kind of road in the trial game and it just slowed things down too much. However, something analogous to the build queues would be good (but without their binding nature). Each Diet, the Duke/Steward posts in the Chancellor and governs reports thread, dealing with the provinces allocated to the House and bordering AI provinces. The post would list:

(a) Ideal garrison for each settlement
(b) Ideal location/assingment for each of the House generals
(c) Whether any field armies are required, aside from the garrisons needed for defensive purposes. What they would consist of; who would lead them; and what they would be tasked with.

Coordinating the above between Dukes, Counts and other House members would increase the role of Houses. Counts would want a say over their settlement's garrison (a). Players would want a say over their avatars placement (b).

The Chancellor would be free to ignore the list, but consulting it might be helpful. It would also increase player interaction, as the Chancellor would probably want to respond to or negotiate over the Duke's requests.

We could propose a constitutional ammendment to enshrine the above, but mainly this is an OOC thing so we probably should discuss it here.

[Kagemusha]

That would be a great idea Econ21 about Dukes advicing the chancellors about their wishes on the defence of their lands. I will open a thread like Swabia soon.We are now still using pm´s at Franconia,becouse we are very much into cloaks and daggers.~;)Btw does anyone have a packed verision of Warlusters save?If so please pack it and upload it.I cant seem to be able to get the current one in sav format downloaded.:bow:

[econ21]

If people want the Duchy threads to be for the eyes of House members only, we could have an informal agreement not to read other Houses' threads. We have enough to read without snooping on other Houses. Of course, it would have to be an honour thing and dishonorable characters may spy on their rivals, so the PMs would still be needed for real cloak and dagger stuff.

[Kagemusha]

Econ21, i think the house threads should be open for all eyes. Atleast i tend to still use letters rather then public speaches on the more secret affairs of Franconia.I guess in reality the Dukes would have informatives on their rivals courts,so only the most secret things would not come to their ears.Btw if Ignoramus will grant me my wish,im ready to fight against the Polish army between Magdeburg and Stettin right now.:yes:

[TinCow]

I agree, there's no way to enforce an 'eyes-only' policy on the House threads, so we should assume they're insecure. There's definite room for discussion in there on Household policy though. It would be easier to discuss plans for developing certain settlements in certain ways, and it would really come into play if we started the proposed suggestions about giving Houses a voice in their own defenses. The threads could be used to decide what kinds of forces go into the armies, where they are stationed, who leads them against enemies, etc.

[Kagemusha]

Btw Tincow,could you update me as Friedrich von Saxony in the Imperial library? Also i have a question about the character kills. Does all kills count,also the ones characters unit has done while not commanding the battle?Or are the kills the ones of the whole army the character had lead,not just his bodyguards?:bow:

[TinCow]

Done, sorry about that. I also updated the *really out of date* info on who's playing who. The entire Family Tree/Bio will receive a full update in 1140, which is the next diet session and only 2 turns away (I think).

[Kagemusha]

Thanks Tincow!~:cheers:

[TinCow]

Regarding the kills, that only refers to battles that the avatars personally commanded. There's no way for me to track individual bodyguard kills, so it's the best that can be done. It should really be considered more of a record of a character's command experience than any personal combat abilities. The stats from a battle only go to the character that was actually in command. No other characters will get stats from a battle, even if they participated in it. It does not matter whether a player personally fought the battle or whether it was autoresolved, they both count as 'in command.'

[OverKnight]

The Bad News

My home computer mysteriously died overnight. I think the power supply died on me because the damned thing's plugged in but it won't turn on and there's this high pitched tone coming from the computer. I've taken it to my local repair shop, but God knows when I'll get it back. :wall:

The Good news

I dug my old system out of storage, which I'm using right now, and I think it can play the game. However I was stupid and bought the game from Direct2Drive, so I've got to download it again, which will take ~20 hours. Then of course, we'll see if they'll let me have the game on two systems at once.

So, I've encountered a glitch but one I hope I can overcome.

[lilirishman1986]

on a random note will we be implementing the update 1.2 when it comes out?

[Dutch_guy]

on a random note will we be implementing the update 1.2 when it comes out?

Well, if it's compatible with the mods we're using, and the saves itself, then I don't see why not.

:balloon2:

[nazgul3]

Oh a little off topic but I am American as well...so u can add me to the "Yank" list lol..i am 5 hours behind u brits

[Jalf]

Put me on the Euro list then... :)

[OverKnight]

Does anyone know if we got the save up and running again?

econ21, as for when I'm available to play. . .There's really no pattern. I work third shift in the Eastern time zone but I'm also on a two week split schedule. I'm usually on line at work or home, so if there's a question about whether I'm available to play a battle, PM me and I can usually give an accurate answer, or at least an estimate when I could get to it.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but I hope I've demonstrated that I can turn around a save PDQ. :beam:

Edit: Great story as usual TinCow. After this PBM you might get course credit for a Masters in Divinity.

[TevashSzat]

Well im on the eastern coast of the US so put me under Yanks

[ArchdukeEvan]

that would be "yank" for me...

[Warluster]

I have a OT question.

it says in the rules your avatar could be taken off you, what sort of situation would you lose your avatar?

[Werner]

This looks really fun but how do I get involved?

[Warluster]

Simple, say what house you want to be in, and your in!

[Ignoramus]

Hello, Werner.

Yes, you're welcome to join in. I am not the best explainer, so don't be put off by my description. When econ21 comes online, he'll give you a much more accurate description.

Basically, you pick a house to join: Swabia, Bavaria, Franconia, or Austria. You then get to participate in the Imperial Diet, where there are edicts passed instructing the person playing the game(the Chancellor) what to do. Every 10 turns, a new Chancellor is elected. If you house gets enough generals, then you get to "roleplay" your in-game general. If your general gets a battle, then you get to fight the battle etc. All in all, a great game.

[Kagemusha]

Could someone please upload the savefile packed as rar or zip? I cant get the sav files downloaded,without corrupting them in the process.:bow:

[Ignoramus]

I think that it's not necessary, as after AussieGiant's defeated the Venetians he'll have to save it again.

Oh, and I follow the requests in your letters. I was just reinforcing you with some Armoured Sergeants. I thought that it would be wise and more helpful if you had a few extra soldiers under your command.

[Kagemusha]

Allright, thank you.Maybe its just the save problems of the past couple days that i have no idea whats happening,other then reading the announcements from the Diet.I understand there is tons for you to do as Chancellor, so i would be pleased even for simple yes/no answers to the pm´s.:yes:

[Ignoramus]

Ok.

AussieGiant, can you please get on to that battle ASAP? Thanks.

[Kagemusha]

Thanks!:bow:

[Ignoramus]

Oh, the save game is kotr1136-1.

[AussieGiant]

Ok.

AussieGiant, can you please get on to that battle ASAP? Thanks.

I'm at work until 16:00 Swiss time.

As soon as I get home I'll do it. I should be finished at 18:00 Swiss time.

Is that ok? Sorry about this.

So kotr1136-1 is the one I load up and use this evening? I'm double checking as this is my first time...I'm still a PBM virgin :)

[econ21]

Welcome, Werner. As has been said, just post here with your choice of House and you're in. Then start posting in the Diet and your House thread.


it says in the rules your avatar could be taken off you, what sort of situation would you lose your avatar?

Only if you stop playing and someone else needs an avatar. I tend to measure activity by Diet votes - if a player misses two in a row, I am inclined to regard them as inactive. But other things mitigate that - if they are posting regularly in the Diet between those votes, then missing the votes would not matter.

We try to avoid reassigning as it messes up the roleplaying, but had to do it with Dietrich as the absence of an active player for him was stalling the House with the most avatars.

[Warluster]

thanks, just wondering.

Welcome Werner , I hope you enjoy this PBm and remember, be active!

[AussieGiant]

It seems as if I am the current bottleneck.

While I am at work is it possible for someone to post up just what is attacking Vienna? The suspense is just killing me here at work!!

Thanks to anyone that can help.

[Northnovas]

It seems as if I am the current bottleneck.

While I am at work is it possible for someone to post up just what is attacking Vienna? The suspense is just killing me here at work!!

Thanks to anyone that can help.

You may have already won the battle by the time of this post but it is few Venetians that I think you can handle.
I have been following this PBEM and find it quite interesting, especially the character development. I would be interested in participating. A little apprehensive about some of the filing.
We had freezing rain today (Canada EST) so "I am working at home". This enabled me to incorporate the version you are using into the Med Manager and check the saved files. It is so much more productive working at home.
I was never a big fan of the HRE but I do have some loyalty to Austria from the Napoleonic days. I would like to participate in the Austrian House and defend the Empire from the Eastern foes if there is still a position.

[AussieGiant]

Ok.

Finished.

Seemed simple enough. saved game is in .sav and .zip format.

It's called kotr1136-2

Yes we beat them. Dietrich on the other hand is in for a 3 way with some Poles...:beam:

[econ21]

Welcome, Northnovas. I'll sign you up for Austria. There may be a wait for an avatar, as Leopold has not been very fruitful (or willing to adopt).


Dietrich on the other hand is in for a 3 way with some Poles...

I have not checked the save, but do you mean it is still the AI turn and Dietrich is being attacked by the Poles? If so, please can Kagemusha download the save and fight the battle?

From past experience, Ignoramus will be offline during the weekend, so if we can get this out the way by the time he returns on Monday, that would speed things up.

If things are too hairy for Dietrich, dont be a hero, Kagemusha. Run! (Maybe taking out as many of the enemy as you can before doing so).

[AussieGiant]

Hi Econ,

That is correct. My fight was in the Venetian AI turn.

After that I pressed esc and saved the victory.

I then spent the next 3 minutes watching the rest of the AI and in the Polish turn he gets nearly surround and is attached by 3 separate Polish groups of about 180 to 200 each.

It doesn't look good :no:

Kagemusha if you can get out of this I'll buy you a beer.

[Jalf]

Ouch, how far away am I? Might have to ride out to assist my lord... :p

[Northnovas]

[QUOTE=econ21]Welcome, Northnovas. I'll sign you up for Austria. There may be a wait for an avatar, as Leopold has not been very fruitful (or willing to adopt).

Great! Thanks, will be on standby just taking everything in....

[Ignoramus]

Ouch! Maybe its a good thing that I gave you those Armoured Sergeants.

The best of luck, Kagemusha. If you win, you deserve a triumph in Frankfurt.

[econ21]

Northnovas: you are the 6th Elector of Austria! You are welcome to speak in the Diet. I would imagine the Austrians must be getting a little frustrated with the Vienna situation - prim Prinz Henry certainly is. These repeated sieges are insulting (perhaps they also cut off Vienna's income too?). I think the Austrians should give thought to an offensive against wherever the Viennese are coming from - Zagreb?

[Ignoramus]

The problem is that Austria only has one general - Duke Leopold. If he dies, then the House of Austria is no more. So, I hope we get another Austrian or two soon.

[OverKnight]

Little update on my computer problems:

The power supply did fail as I thought on my new system, ETA on repair is monday or tuesday.

I should have the game downloaded and installed on my old system in about 6-7 hours.

Since I'm running blind at the moment, and we seem to be waiting on Kagemusha, I humbly request a report from the Chancellor, if he has the time. :bow:

[Northnovas]

Thanks, 6th Elector of Austria. I like that handle.

[Ignoramus]

Certainly. I'll get on it. I must say that Dietrich's position is not good.

[AussieGiant]

And pray tell noble sirs just what will Austria be attacking with??:inquisitive:

I'm about to say the same thing IC. The situation is very frustrating. The is no standing army within two years march.

The House based armies are greatly needed that's for sure.

We are so over stretched its amazing.

[econ21]

We are so over stretched its amazing.

Well, before the last Diet we were worrying about rushing the AI and the game being boring. :shrug:

In character, prim Prinz Henry is also frustrated.

Out of character, econ21 is finding this gripping stuff.

[flyd]

Oh, it's not so bad. Dietrich's situation doesn't seem particularly perilous. The poles are coming piecewise, and with nothing particularly heavy. The only problem is that the bodyguard would have to get their hands dirty, resulting in possible avatar deaths.

And we're far from overstretched, we have a number of large armies in Italy that could go on all manner of offensives. Of course, their position makes them quite unable to prevent the Venetians from taking tours of Vienna, but that's Austria's problem.

[OverKnight]

With all that's going on, the next Diet will be a knock-down-drag-out affair to be sure. I hope that we actually have a contested election for Chancellor this time, as I got the impression from reading WotS that that really added to the drama.

Edit: Thanks for posting a report Ignoramus. Interesting times.:sweatdrop:

[Jalf]

Oh, it's not so bad. Dietrich's situation doesn't seem particularly perilous. The poles are coming piecewise, and with nothing particularly heavy.

Polish nobles can be pretty nasty. And if woodsmen get lucky, they can chop the horse from under your general... Good vs armour, remember? ;)



And we're far from overstretched, we have a number of large armies in Italy that could go on all manner of offensives. Of course, their position makes them quite unable to prevent the Venetians from taking tours of Vienna, but that's Austria's problem.
So, that sounds like overstretched to me. True, with a few years to reorganize, we'd be able to make do with what we've got, but since we can't do it now, we're overstretched.

Still, adds to the fun... I dont have a problem with it at all, but I'd say we are overstretched... :)

Anyway, why am I sitting inside Stettin castle with half the Franconian army, while two of our nobles are outside being hounded by Polish forces? :p

[ArchdukeEvan]

i have returned form spending 12 at the school everyday...

it looks like things are falling apart with out me as usual... lol... :laugh4:

anyway... do you suppose it would be possible to make a peace with Poland?... idk about Medfix... bc i normaly play on LtC... but peace treatys are usally viable... somewhat...

[AussieGiant]

Oh, it's not so bad. Dietrich's situation doesn't seem particularly perilous. The poles are coming piecewise, and with nothing particularly heavy. The only problem is that the bodyguard would have to get their hands dirty, resulting in possible avatar deaths.

And we're far from overstretched, we have a number of large armies in Italy that could go on all manner of offensives. Of course, their position makes them quite unable to prevent the Venetians from taking tours of Vienna, but that's Austria's problem.

I'm not particular bloody interested in what is happening in Northern Italy, and I'm equally not particularly interested in any army not controlled by our Duke.

Were basically standing around with our pants down in Austria. Thank god the Hungarian's went on crusade or we'd all be wonder where to get 2000+ florins because my character would be in the hills hiding or hanging out drinking absinth in Prague.

That's my IC opinion so I'm not having a go at you FLYdude

Out of character this is absolutely excellent :beam:

[FactionHeir]

I would like to join and become either Hans or fifth elector of swabia (i'm going by the library topic)

btw, when will a new ooc topic be started? and do I have to read all of the current ones to keep up to date or only beginning from a certain post?

Rule questions:
If you are chancellor and your avatar stays in a town for 2 turns, is he count automatically only while he is inside the town or also when going on campaign?
What is this army commander thing about, the first post isn't explaining it very well? Does this army commander need to be part of the stack leading an attack? How many are there per session? Can an avatar become knighted when defeating an enemy stack with less than 7 units in their own stack?
What about captain led armies?
If an edict were to say do not get excommunicated but another edict says that you should eliminate a faction, which one is to take effect as the pope might threaten excomm?
Say you become count. Someone is is chancellor. If you like to have your queue filled but the chancellor doesn't have enough florins to effectively have your town building, which towns have priority?
Are there any rules on spending? I haven't seen any.
Does the chancellor have to take regular screenshots or does tincow do that every 10/20 turns when the save is submitted?
Can the chancellor move any unit (incl generals) around the map on his own liking or does he have to get consent on movement?

[econ21]

I would like to join and become either Hans or fifth elector of swabia (i'm going by the library topic)

Welcome. :bow: I am not sure what you mean by Hans, so I'll put you down as 5th Elector of Swabia.


btw, when will a new ooc topic be started? and do I have to read all of the current ones to keep up to date or only beginning from a certain post?

I close them when they reach about 20 pages. You don't need to bother with old OOC threads or even posts - they tend to deal with the issues of the day. The long term stuff should be in the game FAQ (Charter), which I re-post at the beginning of each new OOC thread.


If you are chancellor and your avatar stays in a town for 2 turns, is he count automatically only while he is inside the town or also when going on campaign?

The 2 turn thing is obsolete: we had a Charter Ammendment getting rid of governors and replacing them with Counts. I have now edited rule 1.4 to reflect that. Counts are created by Dukes.


What is this army commander thing about, the first post isn't explaining it very well? Does this army commander need to be part of the stack leading an attack? How many are there per session? Can an avatar become knighted when defeating an enemy stack with less than 7 units in their own stack? What about captain led armies?

Basically, you are only eligible to command an army if you are first a knight. The Chancellor appoints you army commander to signify that you are leading a stack and can fight any battle it gets into; there's no limit to them. I guess we could dispense with army commanders completely - it was more important before a recent Charter Ammendment when it gave influence. Still, I'll keep it for now as it could add character. I guess it could be important in clarifying which of multiple generals should actually fight the battle (but then it would have to coincide with the number of command stars). Ideally, I'd like to have the Chancellor maintain a list of armies and their commanders "1st Army of Lombardy - Commander: Emperor Heinrich".

You can be knighted after a battle at the discretion of the army commander.


If an edict were to say do not get excommunicated but another edict says that you should eliminate a faction, which one is to take effect as the pope might threaten excomm?

Where there is a contradiction, the one with most votes takes effect.


Say you become count. Someone is is chancellor. If you like to have your queue filled but the chancellor doesn't have enough florins to effectively have your town building, which towns have priority?

Chancellor's call.


Are there any rules on spending? I haven't seen any.

Chancellor's job to manage spending.


Does the chancellor have to take regular screenshots or does tincow do that every 10/20 turns when the save is submitted?

TinCow maintains the library; the Chancellor may illustrate his periodic reports with screenshots.


Can the chancellor move any unit (incl generals) around the map on his own liking or does he have to get consent on movement?

Chancellor's perogative.

Basically, the Chancellor plays the game as if it were a SP game. The main differences are:
(a) he should abide by edicts
(b) he delegates battles if other players are commanding
(c) players (as Counts or Dukes) spell out build queues.

We are thinking of ammending the rules to give Dukes more of a role in defending their settlements, but the details have not been ironed out.

[FactionHeir]

Welcome. :bow: I am not sure what you mean by Hans, so I'll put you down as 5th Elector of Swabia.

I looked at TinCow's family tree and figured Hans isn't coming of age yet and I wouldn't mind waiting to become Hans if possible :)
Would be my favorite as opposed to 5th elector anyway, but you decide.



You can be knighted after a battle at the discretion of the army commander.

So if your avatar has a few troops with him, he only fights if he is also army commander of that particular stack? Someone else would play the battle if your avatar is not army commander but the only general in the stack?
If you are "army commander" (i still don't get if this is an universal rank or only for 1 particular stack) and win a battle, why would you not knight yourself?:dizzy2:


Chancellor's perogative.

Basically, the Chancellor plays the game as if it were a SP game. The main differences are:
(a) he should abide by edicts
(b) he delegates battles if other players are commanding
(c) players (as Counts or Dukes) spell out build queues.


So the chancellor can basically send avatars on suicide missions if he doesn't like them? :inquisitive:


BTW, any chance that each PBM can get its own little subforum? its kinda cluttering with all kinds of PBMs in the same forum...

[econ21]

I looked at TinCow's family tree and figured Hans isn't coming of age yet and I wouldn't mind waiting to become Hans if possible :)
Would be my favorite as opposed to 5th elector anyway, but you decide.

Ah, I see. I'll take a look and get back to you.


So if your avatar has a few troops with him, he only fights if he is also army commander of that particular stack?

If he is an army commander. Currently it's a universal rank.


Someone else would play the battle if your avatar is not army commander but the only general in the stack?

Autoresolved, I guess. But the Chancellor should really use his personnel better to avoid this kind of thing.


If you are "army commander" (i still don't get if this is an universal rank or only for 1 particular stack) and win a battle, why would you not knight yourself?

You can't knight yourself as you can't be an army commander without first being a knight.


So the chancellor can basically send avatars on suicide missions if he doesn't like them?

One reason we have impeachment. Anyone pulls that kind of stunt, and Prinz Henry would be after their blood.


BTW, any chance that each PBM can get its own little subforum? its kinda cluttering with all kinds of PBMs in the same forum...

A lively forum has its own charm. We're using the KotR prefix to make it clear which threads are ours. I guess I should offer prefixes to other PBMs, but it is hard to tell which ones will stay the course.

[FactionHeir]

Ok bear with me once more:

So if I understand it correctly, any new avatar will only lead a battle on his own after having fought a battle as second in command with the (or how many are there) army commander in the same stack and winning and being promoted? Or does being a knight not suffice to lead a battle?

And if there are more than 1 army commander, which commander gets to lead battles by non commanders/knights?

[econ21]

So if I understand it correctly, any new avatar will only lead a battle on his own after having fought a battle as second in command with the (or how many are there) army commander in the same stack and winning and being promoted? Or does being a knight not suffice to lead a battle?

It is rather simple: a new avatar will only download a save and fight out the battle if:
(1) He has participated in a battle, distinguishing himself enough to be knighted by the army commander.
and:
(2) He has been given the title army commander by the Chancellor.

(2) is rather trivial, so in a way being a knight does suffice to lead in battle.


And if there are more than 1 army commander, which commander gets to lead battles by non commanders/knights?

If there are multiple commanders in a stack, the one who fights the battle should be whoever the computer designates as the general in charge. Typically, that's the one with the most command stars, but I have a suspicion that being an Emperor or even Prince tumps that.

[FactionHeir]

Ok, thanks, that clears it up :)

Is there anything I should be participating in in the meantime? Like what house am I in (since you said you'll check on whether I can be Hans or fifth swabia)

[OverKnight]

Aw geez, the Diet's gone nuclear again!:hide:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Haha, that was all the Kaiser's personality. I've been roleplaying him as someone who wants to redeem himself for the Investiture Crisis from the start, and it just so happens that Mandorf pressed the right button that set him off.

This should be interesting. :evilgrin:

[econ21]

Is there anything I should be participating in in the meantime? Like what house am I in (since you said you'll check on whether I can be Hans or fifth swabia)

Sorry for the delay getting back to you - busy day. OK, I've checked - Hans is a Swabian, Prinz Henry's own son in fact - I guess I should have known that. :embarassed: xdeathfire is next in line for a Swabian avatar, but in a run through, we got a Swabian adoptee before Hans grew up. So, I am happy to assign you Hans if you want him. But at his age, I am not sure there are many current role-playing opportunities so you might want to roleplay the 5th Elector of Swabia until Hans gets to a suitable age.

[Ituralde]

I'm back from my holiday. It was great fun!

I'm gonna dig into the threads immediatelly, looks like a lot has happened. I'll try to get up to date as soon as possible. Gonna post more tomorrow!

Cheers!

Ituralde

[Warluster]

Just Off topic, just wanted to say. Happy birthday GH!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just Off topic, just wanted to say. Happy birthday GH!

Haha, thanks. :beam: I guess it's already the 4th in Australia.

-edit- Welcome back, Ituralde! Don't worry, the worst thing I did to your proxy was call him a coward. :laugh4:

[Warluster]

Yeah it s about 9:30 over here in Aus

[Ituralde]

Well, congratulations then from me to GH, too, my favourite adversary! :beam:

I've read all threads except the Diet, which I'll tackle tomorrow, I'm just too tired from travelling 14 hours today to do anything else.

Welcome Northnovas! I'm glad you chose the mighty House of Austria, you won't regret it. I will start an Austrian thread some time tomorrow, I'm glad that has come up as PMs really tend to get cluttered. Prepare for an emergency meeting my fellow Electors as the situation in Vienna looks bad. Luckily I've always flaunted Austrian money around and I think it's about time to spend it on a nice mercenary force! :2thumbsup:

I like the changes made to the Houses that give them a little bit more power a thing Leopold has been pushing for IC as long as I can remember. Once I've worked myself through the Diet I'm gonna put my musing above into action and strike back at anyone calling Leopold a coward. :beam:

See you tomorrow!

[FactionHeir]

Happy birthday GH.

I'll be happy to take Hans then, dad :p

[Northnovas]

I'm back from my holiday. It was great fun!

I'm gonna dig into the threads immediatelly, looks like a lot has happened. I'll try to get up to date as soon as possible. Gonna post more tomorrow!

Cheers!

Ituralde


WOW! That's dedication I am glad you enjoyed yourself. Thanks for the welcome, I think I am in the right house.
I must also send my Best Wishes to the Kaiser!:birthday2:
Drinks for all my friends.~:cheers:

[Dutch_guy]

Have a good one Heinrich, GeneralHankerchief !

Beer's on me tonight.

:balloon2:

[lilirishman1986]

happy bday to you and i hoist a pint in your general direction ;)

[OverKnight]

GH and I just posted some stories. The last one is a collaboration between us, but read his prologue first, it provides some context.

Enjoy! :study:

Edit: And happy time zone appropriate b-day GH!

[AussieGiant]

Happy Birthday GH!!

That doesn't excuse you calling me a coward though :beam:

[AussieGiant]

Great, so now Otto's the Kaisers man.

Is the voting for the Chancellor position with the influence rating or is everyone equal in that vote?

[OverKnight]

If you only knew the power of the Dark Side, AG. :laugh4:

Seriously though, influence is used in both I believe. Same poll actually.

Edit: Putting aside feelings of betrayal, did the story ring true? I felt the marriage of a princess should be a signifigant event, and that there should be a price paid for it.

[Ituralde]

With OverKnight asking for it, I would like to take the time and thank all of the contributors of the Stories thread for their wonderful writings. I really enjoy reading all of them and think you have all done a great job in putting your characters to life.

To answer specifically I think the marriage of Otto von Kassel and Elsebeth was played out well and sounds genuine in my eyes. A good example how to turn OOC deliberations into stringent IC events.

[econ21]

Here, here! An excellent read, GH and Overknight. :bow:

[OverKnight]

Thank you. I'm sorry it wasn't the romance you requested. :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

Very well done guy's.

I must say there are quite a few writers in our midst!!

[Ituralde]

Coming fresh from the holidays, I thought it was a good idea to read through the Rules of the game once again to refresh my memory of them and immediatelly I have some questions, that I'm sure someone can answer. :beam:

Before I ask, I have to take Ignoramus into protection for not auto-resolving battles where no general is involved. Going through the rules again there is no mention of this. I agree with the idea and find it great however, so maybe it should be added to the rules?!

Secondly I have been wondering about retraining. I remember some discussions about this concerned with the chevron bug/exploit/feature. I found no mention of this in the Rules. What is the official stance on this? I'm particularly asking, because I noticed that the units stationed in Vienna don't seem to be retrained or even merged.

Then I would also like to voice my concerns about the disparities in the family tree. While I agree that there's currently no need to do anything drastic I'm already dreading what happens if Otto von Kassel and Elsebeth don't get any children or the next adoptee goes to Sigismund the Chivalrous.

Also some discussions were made about the Field Marshal post. If I'm not mistaken Sigismund currently holds that post. Maybe this could be noted down somewhere. Also if someone could summarize the results of the discussions about it for me again, it would be much appreciated.
I'm particularly unsure about the amount of battles needed and the army sizes involved.


On a completely different note I have no clue who this Hans is supposed to be that FactionHeir keeps talking about. I have neither found him in the Library nor in the game. :inquisitive:

As you can see I'm completely puzzled and any help is appreciated. :help:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks for the wishes guys. :bow:


On a completely different note I have no clue who this Hans is supposed to be that FactionHeir keeps talking about. I have neither found him in the Library nor in the game.

Hans is Prinz Henry's actual son (not an adoptee) who is still underage.

[Bizzair]

Well surely that isn't fair as weve been waiting for a General? :croc:

and yes Im back sorry for not being on for 3 days, went to the pub ;)

[OverKnight]

Some of the rules might be unwritten traditions carried over from WotS but that's a guess.

A Field Marshall is an avatar who has won 5 major victories (a victory against an army of 7+ units). You might notice it's one of the stats kept track of in the Avatar table at the beginning of the Chancellor's Reports thread. FMs have their own standing army and get a baton which they can whap people with. It could take a while until we get one though, since Sigismund and Otto share the lead with one major victory each.

[Ituralde]

Thanks for the answers GH and Overknight.
I had just noticed that the military rank is already shown in the overview table, thanks for mentioning it again. I guess that question is answered.

[econ21]

Before I ask, I have to take Ignoramus into protection for not auto-resolving battles where no general is involved. Going through the rules again there is no mention of this. I agree with the idea and find it great however, so maybe it should be added to the rules?!

OK, I've inserted:

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

I've also struck out some parts of the Charter that need changing after TinCow's charter ammendment which altered influence and replaced governors with Counts.


Secondly I have been wondering about retraining. I remember some discussions about this concerned with the chevron bug/exploit/feature. I found no mention of this in the Rules. What is the official stance on this?

No restriction on retraining - the benefits of experience are pretty modest now (+3 to stats max)


Then I would also like to voice my concerns about the disparities in the family tree. While I agree that there's currently no need to do anything drastic I'm already dreading what happens if Otto von Kassel and Elsebeth don't get any children or the next adoptee goes to Sigismund the Chivalrous.

I suspect the next adoptee will go to Sigismund. But after that, we have agreed not to accept any more Swabian adoptees (as we are not accepting any more Franconian ones). Otto should get children if we conquer more settlements.


Also some discussions were made about the Field Marshal post. If I'm not mistaken Sigismund currently holds that post. Maybe this could be noted down somewhere. Also if someone could summarize the results of the discussions about it for me again, it would be much appreciated.
I'm particularly unsure about the amount of battles needed and the army sizes involved.

Hopefully rule 6.6 is up to date on this.

[Ituralde]

Thanks alot for answering those questions, econ21! :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

I agree with those above. Excellent stories GH and OverKnight. I'm really glad that people are writing regularly for this game. It's a shame that it only began at the end of WOTS, because it clearly adds a lot to the games.

[Kagemusha]

I will download the file now and see in what kind of mess i am in.I promise to make a tactical retreat if the battle cant be won.:sweatdrop:

[Kagemusha]

The battle is won and i have uploaded the savegame as kotr1136-3.I got lucky that the Polish cavalry came in first and after i got them to run,the two little infantry stacks were easy to defeat separately .:2thumbsup:

[FactionHeir]

I would like to suggest that a list of all diplomatic standings be uploaded somewhere. It would make discussions much more useful especially for those who are not chancellors.

[GeneralHankerchief]

We have trade rights with most factions.

We are at war with Milan, Venice, and Poland, the latter two have broken treaties of alliance with us.

We are allied, IIRC, with the Byzantine Empire, the Moors, Sicily, and possibly one of the Iberian factions.

-edit- The Pope has excommunicated Venice (yay) and Sicily (boo). He's called a crusade on the Sicilian castle of Tunis. We are not participating in this crusade. Our Papal standing is not as high as we would like, but we have two Cardinals in the College. I don't think either of them are preferati.

[FactionHeir]

Thanks for the update :)

[Kagemusha]

I have finished my battle report its up in the battle report thread.And also happy birtday Kaiser Heinrich/GH!:cake: ~:cheers:

[Ituralde]

Actually Peter Scherer is Bishop Preferati if I'm not mistaken.
Also, everytime I look at our list of allies I can not help but understand the Pope for hating us. They're all infidels. :2thumbsup:

[ArchdukeEvan]

have we talked to the Russians at all yet?...

i didnt see it anywhere... and you did list the exact factions for Traderights... probly take to long anyway... but just curious

[TinCow]

I just checked the game. We do have trade rights with Russia.

[econ21]

From the latest Chancellor's report:


We have finally made contact with the Russians. Wenzel von Augsburg report that they are faboulousy wealthy, and equally proud and arrogant. He did, however, manage to exchage maps with them.

Everyone playing has access to the savegames: use the link to the uploader in the "File space for PBM" sticky. It's a good idea to get into habit of downloading them and taking a look around whenever you get too curious; all our saves begin "kotor...". You can sort by "last modified" to find the most recent.

BTW: to save space, please only upload zipped files, not the actual .sav ones.

[ArchdukeEvan]

wow... sry im blind... ok... thank you

[Ignoramus]

Ituralde, you've got a battle. You're attacking the Austrians rebels on the River Danube. After that, can you please make Prinz Henry(econ21) to assault Bologna? He's right there besieging it, but I though that I'd get this battle out of the way first.

Oh, and Sigismund's killed another Venetian general in the Alps(expect a battle report soon).

[Ituralde]

Yay for killiing that General, if I'm correct it was the same Alesandro Selvo that fled the siege of Vienna, then joined a crusade until Venice was excommed. :2thumbsup: Just in case you want to work any of this in your battle report.

I have downloaded the savegame and will tackle it within the next 2-3 hours.
I wonder though how far this deciding what happens in your Duchies has already gone yet. If it was up to me, Leopold would attack the Venetian Councillor to the South. I have already constructed a story that makes it unlikely for Leopold to attack the rebels, it would also mean attacking a ford, defended by a missile heavy army with only infantry. It will be a bloody battle. :2thumbsup:

I post this just to make sure that Chancellor Sigismund is deliberately increasing the friction between Leopold and him, as he sure won't like those orders. :yes:

[Ignoramus]

Thanks. I decided to portray Sigismund's chivalry in that battle. So as Alesandro Selvo had only his bodyguard, Sigismund and his retainers(even though he had an army of 15 units with him) slogged it out with them unaided - and won. It was risky, but then again Sigismund has done some quite crazy things.

Sorry about ruining your story, but I thought that the rebels might cause problems later. Besides, there are only peasants, archers, and crossbowmen. I think you should have no problems once you cross the bridge.

Oh, and I want to "spice" things up. I've been trying to get econ to set some "Swabian" policy, but since he wants to be a Kaiser unaffiliated with any house this has been difficult.

Be assured that I will not send any general to intentional death in battle. Besides, we like challenging battles. And you wouldn't want Leopold to be accused of cowardice. After all, he's only sat behind the walls of Vienna defending assaults. So that's another reason I gave him a chance to prove his worth on the field of battle.

[OverKnight]

Sigismund is clearly crossing the line from Chivalrous to freaking suicidal. :dizzy2:

Or are you just gunning for the "Brutally Scarred" trait?

Seriously take care of your avatar, the death of a ruling Chancellor, while good drama, would have a nasty effect on the Reich.

Edit: Besides oath-breakers don't deserve chivalry.

[Ignoramus]

I know, I kept a good eye on him during the fight. Fortunately, I managed to outmanouever the Venetians and had the advantage of height. Also, he was sensible - he kept to the back of the fighting for the most part, although he did have a swipe or two at Alesandro

I am going for all good command and chivalry traits.

I know, but what better way is there than to "lead by example"? At least people wouldn't speak evil of me with a hero's death and all. Seriously, though, I don't intend to throw Sigismund away at all. I like my general very much, and if treated well, he should live for another 40 turns.

[Ituralde]

Yeah it's not like I didn't see this coming, considering the past differences between Sigismund and Leopold.
Already looking forward to the batte report. :eyebrows:

[Ituralde]

Battle is done and the enemies of the Reich are crushed!

I have uploaded kotr1138-1 for econ21, he can dig right in and take Bologna!

[Kagemusha]

Great!:2thumbsup: Was it a hard battle Ituralde?

[Ituralde]

Nah not really, Kagemusha.

It was a pretty uncoordinated affair, with me just storming everything I had across the bridge. The Rebels withdrew after firing some volleys up a nearby ridge and a little beyond it. I stormed on in an attempt to secure the ridge, that's when the Rebels counterattacked, sending their general to certain doom on my Mercenary Spearmens pikes. The rest of the game I chased routers and had to fight a last pocket of Hussite resistance while the general's bodyguard kept coming back at me.

My battle report probably won't be up for another day or so, along with screenshots and everything. I finally got to play with my desktop PC. Oh the graphical glory, although my graphics card hates me. :thumbsdown:

[econ21]

Ignoramus: next time you want me to storm a settlement, you might want to give me some siege equipment. :wall:

Anyway, Bologna is ours again:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1138-2.zip

[FactionHeir]

Ignoramus: next time you want me to storm a settlement, you might want to give me some siege equipment. :wall:


I really like that :laugh4:

[Bizzair]

When was the decision to take Bologna, and fight the rebels?

or am I missing something? :embarassed:

[StoneCold]

Econ, so how did you take Bologna without the siege engines? Really need a your brilliant battle report on this. :D

[TinCow]

The Bologna city walls had been damaged when Venice took it from us. They hadn't repaired the breach, so he was able to walk right in.

[edit] Sorry, that was incorrect. From his battle report it looks like he followed routers from the reinforcement army through the gates and captured them that way. Still, he could have just used the existing breach. The only reason he was allowed to attack at all was because of the breach.

[StoneCold]

OIC. I have just read the battle report, apparently posted while I was reading this thread. When I was reading the battle report, I was wondering how did he managed to deploy in siege mode when his plan was to rout the enemies. Thanks for the reply TC. Good write up and battke, Econ.

[econ21]

Still, he could have just used the existing breach. The only reason he was allowed to attack at all was because of the breach.

OK, good eyesight is not one of Henry's virtues. I never realised there was a breach; in fact, I've never knowingly assaulted a settlement with a breach before. Just loading up the save now, I see it - it is on the north side of the city, while I was deployed on the south.

Sorry for moaning, Ignoramus. I guess I should have realised something was up when the garrison was fixed on a spot in the north. ~:doh:

Still, I am glad I used the ruse I did rather than try to barrel through the breach.

[FactionHeir]

I'm not quite sure how you managed to follow the reinforcements in, as you attacked the reinforcements (by walking around Bologna and forcing defenders to reinforce the small army in the field) to begin with i thought? Or did you assault the city when initiating the battle?

[econ21]

It started off as a siege assault - the Venetians I followed in were trying to reinforce the defending garrison.

[Ignoramus]

Leopold has another battle; this time it's against the Venetians.

[Ituralde]

Finally I can spill some more Venetian blood!!! :evil:

[Ignoramus]

Be warned; you have exactly the same men as the Venetians. How you use them is up to you.

[Ituralde]

I used them well as befits the greatest general of the Reich! :2thumbsup:
Although I bet that Leopold will have something to say about this chivalric intention of Sigismund. :beam:

kotr1138-4 has been uploaded.

[OverKnight]

Strike out with your hatred, Ituralde, feel it flow through you. :laugh4:

The Venetians deserve no mercy for what they've done to our plans.

[Ignoramus]

I'm guessing you won? In that case, well done! I tested it twice. I won once and got defeated the second time. I must say Leopold is getting a good reputation as a general.

Edit: Do any of you know of 12th Century Glory? If you like this PBM, chances are you'll absolutely love 12th Century Glory. It's a forum-based game about Europe in the 1100's.

The game's about to start on Sunday, so hurry over and have a look:
http://z14.invisionfree.com/12th_Century_Glory

[Ituralde]

All I can show you is this:

https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3317/heroicfo6.jpg

I was a bit afraid at first with the Venetian bodyguard slightly outnumbering me. But stupid AI, a calm approach and the punch of my crossbows won the day!

[Ignoramus]

Oh and just a note to all electors. If Sigismund blasts off at you in-character(which is notl likely considering he is chivalrous and would rather settle things with a blade than with words), just remember it'ss IC only. I'm saying anything personal against anyone. You probably all know that, but it's best to have it outlined so we don't have any misunderstandings.

[Kagemusha]

So does that mean Dietrich is soon about to get challenged to duel with Sigismund?~;) I would also like to say that while Dietrich can be outright mean sometimes,but thats all in character. Medieval Dukes werent known from their kindness usually,but thats all just roleplaying.:yes:

[OverKnight]

Got my computer back from the shop today, everything looks good so far. I'm going to take a peak at the saves and see what everyone has been talking about.

BTW, you probably wouldn't anyway, but don't use Direct2Drive or other download game sites. Copies of the game take forever to download, which makes it difficult to troubleshoot. Three days, three failed downloads. Which is odd because it downloaded to this computer just fine. Bad mojo.

[TinCow]

I have been updating the battle stats for the avatars. There are 4 battles that I can't figure out the exact kills/casualties for based on the info in the battle reports thread and the chancellor's reports. They are:

Sigismund der Stolze:
“Battle of the Alps”
“Battle of Savoy Pass”

Kaiser Heinrich:
Genoa Battle

Jobst von Salva:
Northern Italy Battle

If anyone has exact figures for these, post them. Otherwise I won't be able to give updated stats for those 3 avatars.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Genoa battle casualty report should be in the last picture of the actual write-up.

[Warluster]

oops, sorry, I will send you the Battle Report now.

[econ21]

People also should declare if they defeat an enemy army of 7+ units. Henry chalked his first up outside Bologna. (Although I'm starting to have second doubts about the Field Marshall thing - if we have 4 household armies, having private standing armies may be excessive.)

[AussieGiant]

I'd prefer to have the household armies as the Field Marshall armies could be easily "collected" into one or two houses.

[Ignoramus]

In the Battle of the Savoy Pass, there were no casulties, as the armies didn't fight.

In the Battle of Alps, I did take a screenshot, but I've lost it. But I can load up the savegame before and afterwards and calculate the casualties that way.

[Kagemusha]

I think also that the household armies should be priority at the moment,but later at the game im pretty sure we will have more then 4 stacks moving around. Atleast i think we should have 4 Ducal armies and 1 Imperial army commanded by the Kaiser or a person picked by him. Then the Imperial army could be deployed on the most important fronts. Maybe later there could be several Imperial armies with army commanders appointed by Kaiser.What you guys would think about that?

[Ignoramus]

I've finished my reign. We've got some very interesting things happening, so look out for my final write-up.

[Northnovas]

I've finished my reign. We've got some very interesting things happening, so look out for my final write-up.

Job well done!!

As for the army units are we talking 15+ in a stack? I think there should be some flexibility and Kagemusha idea sounds reasonable. Build the four House and an Imperial Army. If more could be built they would be Imperial and the Kaiser's prerogative of there control and assignment. It's good to keep the options open you never know where this could go.

[Ignoramus]

Thanks. It wasn't easy. I am a very relieved man right at the moment.

Kagemusha's idea sounds very interesting. It would enhance the "factional" aspect of the game more.

[OverKnight]

Who should appoint army commanders, the Kaiser or Chancellor? Perhaps Dukes should have a say over who commands these proposed Ducal armies and the Chancellor, with the Kaiser's input, could assign command of Imperial armies. We should try to keep the PBM streamlined as so there are as few delays as possible for the Chancellor playing the game.

The next Chancellor's going to have an interesting experience.

[OverKnight]

Ignoramus, since the Diet session is open, could you upload the latest save so we can all take a look?

[Kagemusha]

I would propose that the Dukes decide the commanders of the Ducal armies and Kaiser appoints the Imperial army commanders,while Chancellor gives the Imperial armies the actual orders, based on the decisions of the Imperial Diet. This would increase the influence of Kaiser, so he could create political alliances by appointing Imperial commanders that are like minded with him.

[econ21]

Ignoramus, since the Diet session is open, could you upload the latest save so we can all take a look?

Seconded - this is urgent. And please could you provide a brief Chancellors report in the next day or two? I think only a few turns have passed since your last, so it need not be long.

[Stuperman]

After followig this thread for quite some time, I think I'll finally throw my hat in the ring and would like to sign up for KotR if you'd have me. Obviously there is no room in game for me for some time, which is fine by me (are there explicit instructions on how to install medifix120? I find the ones included vague)

I really don't have a preference as to house,but bavaria, and Austria both look interesting though (nothing against swabia or francona).

and although presumptious:

Kagemusha, I agree with you, that generalship would be a great tool for the Kaiser to have, although I think formal input from the Chancellor(sp) and all Heads of Household would be interesting, if only to see the political jockeying. Although as I write this, I am thinking that FORMAL input might only serve to slow the game down, maybe a fromal recomnedation from the chancellor(sp) and just let the households express their position in the diet?


Thanks in advance for considering me and I must say that so far the whole thing have been very entertaining to read/watch unfold.

[econ21]

Welcome, Stuperman. I'll sign you up as the 6th Elector of Bavaria - they could use another player. Don't wait for an avatar to participate - this PBM depends on lots of voices and voting in the Diet to keep it bubbling and alive.

It's been a while since I installed the mod, but I remember the instructions weren't great.

These are things I've posted to other players who had troubles:



Medifix is really easy to install - you just extract two text files into your data folder and create a one line bat file in your main M2TW directory to run the game. The instructions are in the download.

...

Inside your main M2TW directory, just create a text file called "whatever.bat" using notepad, wordpad or something. The file has just a single line:

medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Then create a shortcut to it and paste to your desktop (I changed the icon to be M2TW's); double click to run.

....

If you follow the instructions for installing the mod, you end up with two icons - one runs normal M2TW; the other runs the bat file I mentioned above and so loads the two modified vices n virtues/traits files.


BTW, I think we should stick to 10 turn Chancellorships. We have quite a few avatars now, so a high turnover should be good. And Ignoramus's time in power seemed just about right - long enough to do something, but not interminable. But let's dispense with the mid-term Diet and just meet again in 10 turns to elect a new Chancellor.

[OverKnight]

I've been wondering how we should treat insights we gain from the stories thread. Otto's already gotten some congratulations from other avatars without an official announcement, and I assume he has a working knowledge of Hildegard's new influence on Maximillian, for example.

Should knowledge gained from stories be treated as unconfirmed rumors or canon facts? It would be very difficult to play as if we hadn't read the stories at all.

Edit: The current length for terms seems good. If a Chancellor wants more, they can always run for reelection.

[econ21]

I think you have to use your judgement. If it is Prinz Henry's inner thoughts or very secret stuff (Dietrich's meeting with Poles under Lucjan), then it should be ignored if possible. Hildebrand's influence on von Mandorf is the stuff of rumours - what they say to each other is not publicly known, but people will gossip and speculate. An engagement would be public knowledge but really it should be announced in public in character by the relevant party (GH) first.

[Stuperman]

sounds good, I'tll get to work on it asap.

two things:

1. where can I read the charter?

2. Is there/should there be some mechanism to officially modify edicts after they have been proposed? that would make the diet work more like a real Government, and beside, how many times have you heard: " I'd second X.4 if it read a little different"

[OverKnight]

That makes sense.

I don't mind getting congratulations, it's just that things could change before an official announcement, Otto could still get watchtowered for example, or Elsebeth could have a hare lip and a hump.:laugh4: So for now it's just a rumor.

Edit: 1. OOC thread
2. Proposers of Edicts can change the language if they want.

[Ignoramus]

I've created a Duchy of Swabia forum. I'll send the links to the Swabians shortly. I'll also reply to your PM's econ, and put the save-game up.

The reason why I'm waiting until I've put the report up is because a few interesting things happened during the last turn, and I want them to be a suprise

[Ignoramus]

And please wait until I've put the save-game up before proposing edicts. Some might seem stupid when you see the save-game.

[econ21]

The reason why I'm waiting until I've put the report up is because a few interesting things happened during the last turn, and I want them to be a suprise

Hi Ignoramus: please, we need the surprise now. We have only three days to debate and should not do it in the dark. In future, Chancellors should post a savegame and report at the same time as they declare their reign over.

[OverKnight]

Should we put a hold on proposing until we have a complete picture? Personally I was waiting on the save, and access to my computer at home, until I spoke up in the Diet.

Edit: We didn't just declare war on Iberia did we? :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

I always try to treat things in the character stories as you mentioned. I'm actually also waiting for the official announcement from Heinrich (GH) in the Diet.

I think Ignoramus should take the time he needs to put up a decent post, especially if it contains some surprises. I'd much rather have it that we wait with the official Diet opening until those things are up, at least in the future. It's always bad to start the first Diet discussions on speculations.

One thing, that I would like clarification on is how the new Dukal powers will be implemented from now on?
Mabye econ21 could propose them as Charter Amendments again to give them the required amount of formality? Cause right now I'm a bit confused to what I will and won't be able to do as future Duke and more importantly as future Chancellor.
I think somebody else already mentioned a related thing when Venice was attacked. We were at war with Venice surely, but there was no Edict specifically calling for conquest, although the Diet seemed to approve of those actions.
The question I have to that, probaly directed to the WotS players who may have already experienced something likt his, whether this was within the powers of the Chancellor or whether this is something for which the Chancellor could be impeached.
Notice the could, this is just a hypothetical question I have and I don't want to blame Ignoramus for anything. I'm just curious, as usual. :beam:


Edit: Already some replies. I agree with you econ21, either your proposal that he declares everything at once or that we wait until everything is there before opening. :beam:

[econ21]

TinCow has drafted a Charter Ammendment giving Dukes control of Household Armies. I am sure he will post it in due course - from the OOC discussion, I think we should work on the assumption it will be passed.

On conquest - the Chancellor is free to conquer enemies (not to attack neutrals), but edicts could be used to mandate him to do so or to prevent him doing so.

[Stuperman]

I was typing when the diet was closed, sorry!

[econ21]

Ignoramus: your post box is full. (No doubt lots of impatient Electors wanting you to spill the beans.)

[Ignoramus]

Sorry about the delay; I had a guest. I am just going to post a very brief report up then upload the save-game.

Oh and my inbox has space now.

[Kagemusha]

Gah! What could the suprise be? Im looking forward to see the suprise. I hope its not that the French have joined the play also.:sweatdrop:

[econ21]

The anticipation is killing me.

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

(Maybe I shouldn't have had that third cup of coffee.)

[Ignoramus]

The report is up. I am sorry about the lack of screenshots, but I had to get it up(It's 11 pm here).

Swabian electors, I am about to send you all a PM.

[econ21]

Please can you upload the latest save? :bow:

[Ignoramus]

Certainly, I'm getting right up.

Something is going funny with the computer, so it's going slower than normal.

[TinCow]

The Library has been completely updated. The only info I am missing is are kill/lose stats for the following battles:

Sigismund der Stolze: “Battle of Savoy Pass” (FYI, since the "Battle of the Alps" resulted in no casualties whatsoever, I am not considering it a battle for stat purposes)

Jobst von Salva: Northern Italy Battle (There are some vague references to kills/captures in the battle report, but no info at all on losses)


Let me know if anyone sees anything I missed or made a mistake on.

[Kagemusha]

Great job Tincow!:2thumbsup: I think i spotted one thing to correct. I think that Jonas Von Mahren havent lead a single battle yet, altough he was in Dietrichs army in battle of Kamienski. By the way,how you guys liked that little sneak peak inside Dietrichs head during the Diet,in the stories thread?

[TinCow]

Thanks, I had gotten him mixed up with Jobst von Salva. The story is great, I love how well the alliances and conflicts between the Houses keep shifting. It's definitely making KOTR more interesting than WOTS was until the Civil War.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just a heads-up, I will be going out of town for the next few days (I may be in on Thursday afternoon EST but that's not certain - I'll be back Sunday evening EST) so if you want to talk with the Kaiser, do it soon.

[Ituralde]

It seems like somebody does indeed want to talk to you. :yes:

[Ignoramus]

Thanks for the PM, Ituralde. I'll guess I'll be changing Sigismund's nickname.

[Stuperman]

I was just wondering, what would happen if the Kaiser was to get elected Chancellor, and die while in office (old age). Would Henry take over both posts? or only Kaiser, and Chancellor would go to the second place in the Chancellor election? or....??

[TinCow]

Well, the Prince would instantly become the Emperor, so he would have the power to call an emergency session of the Diet. I expect this would be done for the purposes of a new election, but it's not required by the Charter. It would be possible that the Prince (new Emperor) could refuse to call an emergency session, leaving the Empire leaderless and pretty much forcing us to give him the reigns. That would be interesting, but from previous experience, I doubt econ21 would do that, since it would alienate many Electors. Not a good way to start a reign!

[econ21]

Don't jinx the old man!

Good question - we've never really dealt with that contingency in the Will of the Senate (lost a few co-Consuls, but never a Consul).

Long answer: given that the contingency is not dealt with in the Charter, I think there would be a constitutional crisis and in such a situation the Emperor (Henry) would be the final Emperor.

Short answer: I ain't sayin' nuttin.

[Stuperman]

Interesting...I was just reading over the charter, and was wondering about the Kaiser deciding all marriages, wouldn't it make sense for their fathers to decide about their daughter's husbands, not the kaiser? or is that more for gameplay reasons, incase there is a proposal at the begenning of the turn?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think the Kaiser only decides who the in-game princesses (the ones who can move around) marry - i.e. his daughters. The rest of the marriages are left up to the Chancellor.

[TinCow]

Yeah, it's important that the Emperor decide who his daughters marry (especially Heinrich, given that two houses started without Dukes) but if we allow everyone to do that, we'll slow down the game a great deal. Every time a marriage or adoption comes up, the game would have to stop and wait for the Chancellor and the relevant player to communicate. If you have really strong preferences about the matter, you could always just tell the Chancellor only to accept a certain kind of man (i.e. good commander, religious, under the age of 30) beforehand. I'm sure most Chancellors will respect that and it wouldn't cause any slowdowns.

[Ituralde]

No problem Ignoramus, I'm glad to be of help on all language-related topics. :beam:
Also I gotta say I love the timing of Stuperman! :2thumbsup:

[Jalf]

Whoa, in case anyone were wondering why I haven't been very active the last couple of days, I've been insanely busy. Hope I haven't missed anything too important.

Also just a quick note. According to the library, Jobst's last name is Salza, not Salva as everyone seems to call him ;)

[econ21]

Also just a quick note. According to the library, Jobst's last name is Salza, not Salva as everyone seems to call him ;)

Good catch - Warluster, please can you correct your user CP title, it's confusing everyone. Unless you are roleplaying a chap with a lisp or something. :wink:

[Ignoramus]

https://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7025/battleofthealps10xr8.png (https://imageshack.us)

Here's Sigismund's last battle results. I'll get the other one up soon.

[Jalf]

https://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7025/battleofthealps10xr8.png (https://imageshack.us)

Here's Sigismund's last battle results. I'll get the other one up soon.
Gosh, looks like a really close one. :laugh4:

[Stuperman]

Also I gotta say I love the timing of Stuperman! :2thumbsup:

Yeah, sorry about that, just couldn't wait to get my 2 pennies in.



Yeah, it's important that the Emperor decide who his daughters marry (especially Heinrich, given that two houses started without Dukes) but if we allow everyone to do that, we'll slow down the game a great deal. Every time a marriage or adoption comes up, the game would have to stop and wait for the Chancellor and the relevant player to communicate. If you have really strong preferences about the matter, you could always just tell the Chancellor only to accept a certain kind of man (i.e. good commander, religious, under the age of 30) beforehand. I'm sure most Chancellors will respect that and it wouldn't cause any slowdowns.

That would slow the game down a lot, and now that I think about it my original question didn;t entirely make sense.

[TinCow]

https://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7025/battleofthealps10xr8.png (https://imageshack.us)

Here's Sigismund's last battle results. I'll get the other one up soon.

Er... does that count as a battle? I'll definitely add it to the kill/loss ratio, but should I give a +1 to battles based on squashing 34 men?

[Ignoramus]

Why not? It was a general after all.

[ArchdukeEvan]

idk... he lost 18 good men in the squishing of the 34... that may make it a battle... but a +1 idk bout that :laugh4:

so im going to DC this weekend (friday-monday) for our school band... yay St.Patricks Day Parade!

anyways... the voting is going till when?... because if its done before Monday at like 9 or 10 pm... (central standerd time USA) then i cant vote... so if it ends before then... is there a way to like cast my votes on the currents ones before i lose Internet tommarrow?

ty...

PS... i may get internet there... but idk...i dont have a labtop so im hoping that i get WiFi in the room to use dad's internet-phone thingy... but i doubt it'll work...

[Warluster]

I noticed just before how his name was Salza not Salva, but I really liked the name Salva, so i kept it,

I will change it now...mumble,mumble

[FactionHeir]

I'd normally say a battle against 34 would barely count as one, but with over a thousand men against 34? Thats not a battle, thats a manhunt

[econ21]

Tincow is maintaining the library, so it is up to him what he defines as a battle, but if he is counting the casualties, for consistency, I think he should count the battle.

IIRC, this was an encounter in which Sigismund and his escort fought the Milanese general and his escort, one on one - he ordered his army to keep out of it. I think it was a characterful and chivalrous encounter and personally would record it.

[Ituralde]

Due to Sigismunds chivalric nature he has fought out this particular 'battle' only using his own bodyguard against he enemies general.
So while the setup was not very balanced, the fighting itself was, so he should get the acknowledgement for this battle, if you ask me.

Edit: Too slow :beam:

[Ignoramus]

I really should post those screenshots up. It was quite a colourful affair. Oh and econ, can you pop over to the Swabia forum?

[TinCow]

Yep, a 1 on 1 fight definitely works. I'll give it a +1. That stats are really only for curiosity anyway.

[Northnovas]

Just some clarification reading the edicts. Do they need TWO seconders to go to a vote?? Also another post mentioned the limit of edicts per character I don't know if it was amended. Electors 3 Dukes 5 and Kaiser unlimited. We have not been following that if it does matter.
I was more curious about having two members required to second an edict.

[TinCow]

I've never heard of that limit on edicts, but given the excessive number we have during this session, that might be a good idea. The requirement of two seconders has been enforced from the beginning and is definitely still in effect. That's one of the reasons that econ21 makes the edict summarys, so that we can see what has been seconded and what hasn't.

[Ituralde]

The issue on vote limiting was proposed as a Charter Amendment during our first Diet session where we had an equally high amount of Edicts being proposed. I have to agree that the situation becomes a bit messy, but usually many of the Edicts don't receive the required number of seconders to be voted upon.

[TinCow]

Since we're discussing rules, I've got a question. Otto will soon become Duke of Bavaria. Nuremburg is the capital of Bavaria.


4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward)

The way I read this, Max will lose control of Nuremburg, which will become Otto's domain. If this is the wish of Duke Otto, it should definitely be done. However, if for whatever reason Otto wants to allow Max to remain in control of Nuremburg, this rule seems to prohibit him from doing that. Is that right? Could this be gotten around by formally moving the capital of Bavaria or would that also be prohibited?

[econ21]

I think relocating the capital would be a characterful way to get round that rule, TinCow.

On the number of edicts, I confess I am getting alarmed. I think I am going to propose a draconian Charter Ammendment, allowing only 2 edicts or ammendments to be proposed per player. We now have around 20 players, so there could still be 40 edicts. But it will make people prioritise and think a bit more about them. It should also encourage intra-House communication, as players with lots of ideas try to persuade others to propose them.