View Full Version : Valor One Tournament
Tomisama
02-17-2007, 16:09
https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/tomisama/ValorOneAdd.jpg
Any intrest is MTW/VI, high era, valour one, large custom map, four player team, Clan vs. Clan competition?
:charge:
AggonyLion
02-17-2007, 16:56
Im Sure Aggony Will be interested in this :bow: It would be hard to get 4v4s in but i think Game play with 4 team players would be much more fun :beam:
-AggonyLion
yeh im sure we can get 3 members easily after what ive been seeing the past few fridays in vi reunion
How many florins per player?
Storm_Of_Shields
02-17-2007, 19:26
3v3, Im going to assume to many people do not show up for a 4v4?
Tomisama
02-17-2007, 20:21
Im Sure Aggony Will be interested in this :bow: It would be hard to get 4v4s in but i think Game play with 4 team players would be much more fun :beam:
-AggonyLion
I was being overly cautious, and can see that was unnecessary.
Much more fun is where it's at!
Have changed it to a 4v4 :bow:
How many florins per player?
High Era in the KoV was fough at 8k, and I believe that this worked well.
Any suggestions?
:beam:
High Era in the KoV was fough at 8k, and I believe that this worked well.
Any suggestions?
8k would be good. I'll see if I can get a team together.
Hunter KIng George
02-18-2007, 00:25
You know Hunters will be there! :yes: Possibly 2 or maybe 3 teams...if allowed...
I hope valor one means all units will be valor 1 otherwise I wouldn't be interested.
ELITEofBLIZZARD
02-18-2007, 15:01
will teams consisting of 2 clans be allowed? im not sure if 4 elites would be ready but this could be fun.
Tomisama
02-18-2007, 15:22
You know Hunters will be there! :yes: Possibly 2 or maybe 3 teams...if allowed...
Multiple Teams will be allowed, but each must be composed of a unique set of players, with no crossover members in an individual Round. Once a member plays for a specific Team in a Round, they can not play for another, “in that same Round”. Every time we start a new Round, Teams can be reconfigured.
I hope valor one means all units will be valor 1 otherwise I wouldn't be interested.
Yes, Valor One is valor 1 for “all” units :yes:
And I just realized that the spelling the game uses, is the same we should use. So changed it to “Valour” :bow:
will teams consisting of 2 clans be allowed? im not sure if 4 elites would be ready but this could be fun.
A Clan Team “must have” at least two member players, but can hire mercenaries to fill out their Team. With the provision that those mercenaries can not play for another Team (their Clan or another Clan’s), “in that same Round”.
:charge:
Yes, Valor One is valor 1 for “all” units.
Well I think that's a very good decision, and will provide good battles. Coupled with the 8k per player, heavy cavalry will be less abundant and have to be more carefully used due to its expense.
Hunter KIng George
02-18-2007, 20:04
Hmmmm so no more val 2 for anti cav units or val 0 for other units? Just want to make this clear since we were used to the original "KOV rules" way.
Tomisama
02-18-2007, 20:14
Hmmmm so no more val 2 for anti cav units or val 0 for other units? Just want to make this clear since we were used to the original "KOV rules" way.
Let's say valour 1 "max" for all units.
AggonyDuck
02-18-2007, 20:44
Yup, Aggony is definately interested. :2thumbsup:
The rules need to be worked out though. Especially the "Valour 1" part.
Like does it mean: "Only units with valour 1", "valour 1 max with no weapon/armour" or "valour 1 max with weapon/armour ".
As you do know, there is a huge difference between the three, with all having their shortcomings. But that said I am open to every option. :bow:
Tomisama
02-18-2007, 23:45
Yup, Aggony is definately interested. :2thumbsup:
:2thumbsup:
Knew the question would come as soon as I wrote the above :wink:
Valour one maximum: Units can be valour 0, or valour 1, with no other upgrades applied.
AggonyDuck
02-19-2007, 10:06
Okay, that will result in rather interesting changes in the balance between factions. For example no armour for pavises etc.. Some factions do get the short end of the stick though, especially the muslim factions. But going to be fun to see what type of armies one can conjure up.
8k army:
4 chivknights = 2700
4 other heavy knights = 2700
4 feudal knights = 1700
900 left for a couple of pavise crossbow maybe a horsearcher or normal archer or even some mounted sargants or jinettes.
If we want to reduce the number of heavy cav something more must be done in the rules. For instance a max on number of heavy cav or bonus florins for using other units then heavy cav or negative bonus in florins for using to many or something else.
It is also true that the lower in florin you go the easier it is for heavy cav (that is normally used at val 0 also at higher florins then 8k) to rout everything exept other heavy cav.
I play vi at least every friday night and I know people will bring the knightdominant armies they do allready on 10k. I dont mind facing it or playing with it but if we want more diversity more regulations must be made.
Kalle
|Heerbann|_Di3Hard
02-19-2007, 13:19
Hi,
Heerbann is also interested in a tournament. Would be great to see many great clans back. Last friday there were Aggonies, ELITE, Hunters and some others back. I am sure a tournament would help to reanimate MTW VI.
{KotR}Sir_Raison{P}
02-19-2007, 20:35
QUALITY.....OK..I'll post in the KotR forums guys...I'm sure fox will come along and hoping that these matches will be arranged on a Friday night which seems to be the fav at the moment.If we can't manage more than 2 of us :juggle: then I guess we will go on the hire for Merc's :duel: Anyone interested should send me a PM. Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink..!!:croc:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
02-19-2007, 20:53
QUALITY.....OK..I'll post in the KotR forums guys...I'm sure fox will come along and hoping that these matches will be arranged on a Friday night which seems to be the fav at the moment.If we can't manage more than 2 of us :juggle: then I guess we will go on the hire for Merc's :duel: Anyone interested should send me a PM. Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink..!!:croc:
Hey,
The King is Willing to Lend his Fellow KOTR Friends his Swiss Army Help *wink wink*
Grey_Fox
02-19-2007, 20:56
I'll see what I can do, but I have extremely irregular hours, and generally don't know when I'm working on a weekend until Thursday evening or as late as Friday mornings. Weekdays are an absolute no-no for me since I'm in university and thus away from my VI.
{KotR}Sir_Raison{P}
02-19-2007, 21:01
That's all I can ask m8 :burnout: Pull a sicky lol
{KotR}Sir_Raison{P}
02-19-2007, 21:08
Hey,
The King is Willing to Lend his Fellow KOTR Friends his Swiss Army Help *wink wink*
Ssshhhhhhh...don't want every bugger to know....bugger everyone knows!:wall: :vanish:
I'll see what I can do, but I have extremely irregular hours, and generally don't know when I'm working on a weekend until Thursday evening or as late as Friday mornings. Weekdays are an absolute no-no for me since I'm in university and thus away from my VI.
don;t try and fool us into thinking you actually do some work at uni :2thumbsup:
--> im happy to help out with any spaces, although am very out of practice and generally useless anyway :2thumbsup:
btw --> whats is the kotr forum adress?
{KotR}Sir_Raison{P}
02-19-2007, 22:26
Scurvs.....here's the link m8
http://com2.runboard.com/bknightsoftherealm
and this will take you to out homepage
http://www.katie6045.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
:tomato: Rais :tomato:
Tomisama
02-20-2007, 02:32
In re-reading my posts I noticed a “drift” in the rule format.
1st. Yes, Valor One is valor 1 for “all” units.
2nd. Let's say valour 1 "max" for all units.
3rd. Valour one maximum: Units can be valour 0, or valour 1, with no other upgrades applied.
4th. Was going to be edging towards allowing upgrades, but didn’t go that far.
My apologies :dizzy:
Now, to set the record straight :inquisitive:
After seriously considering the dilemma presented by Kalle, and experimenting a bit, I have settled on the 1st answer, valor 1 for “all” units.
In the previous Knights of Valour competition, we followed the v1 max rule (allowed v0) and countered the cavalry imbalance with the exception, a v2 max for anti–cav units.
Not that it wasn’t a reasonable solution, but it was hard to explain to folks, and was prone to error, and difficult to monitor.
So, this time around my first thought was to eliminate the v2 exception. And I believe that sticking to a straight valour 1, that raises the cost of cavalry will do the trick nicely.
That is what Yuuki was endorsing in his post:
Well I think that's a very good decision, and will provide good battles. Coupled with the 8k per player, heavy cavalry will be less abundant and have to be more carefully used due to its expense.
So, the Valour One Tourney will truly be Valour One, with no other upgrades.
:charge:
That will put a limit on the use of the heaviest cav, no doubt about that, will most likely be very intresting :2thumbsup: , maybe we should use the coming fridays playsession to try it out, or is the tourney due to start on this friday?
Kalle
CBR and I played two 8k all v1 MTW/VI v2.01 battles last night. The gameplay is more sluggish than Samurai Wars, and the ranged units much weaker. CBR suggested that ranged units be taken at v0 to lower their cost, but we don't know the full repercussions of that on the gameplay or its affect on army choice. Range units get a discount on upgrades depending on their melee capability so they aren't paying the full amount for v1 anyway.
I was able to win both battles with a balanced army which included two order foot spears on medium size flat maps. The battles were close; especially the second where CBR probably would have won if he had quickly taken advantage of a gap in my line with a chiv knight or perhaps used the two chiv knights to make a delayed flanking maneuver on my weak side. It's hard to say whether or not his front line would have held long enough for such a maneuver and how long my longbows could delay his flanking cav in melee, but that's the interesting thing about the tactic that makes it risky. My three v1 longbows got between 30 and 40 kills each, and I shot at nothing but cmaa or chiv knights. They didn't get to use all their ammo, and I used them in melee. The kills were about 600 out of 1000 men fielded for each player. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. My kills were evenly distributed across all my units except for the spears which got less than the average.
First battle:
CBR (HRE)
4 pav xbow
4 archers
4 chiv knights (gen)
4 fmaa
Yuuki (French)
4 xbow
4 cmaa
2 orderfoot
2 turcopoles
3 feudal knights
1 knight templar (gen)
Second battle:
Yuuki (English)
4 pav xbow
3 longbows
4 cmaa
2 orderfoot
2 feudal knights
1 knight templar (gen)
CBR (HRE)
2 xbow
2 pav xbow
4 fmaa
3 cmaa
2 chiv knights (gen)
3 feudal knights
Stoicblitzer
02-21-2007, 01:18
question: will there be a faction limit?
4byz v 4byz is not very intriguing. :-)
RTK might be interested.
Well I dont know about if Byz will be invincible but of course val 1 varang will be a strong unit add pronois and alans for cav and yes they look strong.
A simple solution could be to say that each player in the same team must use diffrent factions. I.E. a team of four players must use 4 diffrent factions.
Almohads are a bigger problem though, with val 1 they cant even reach 8000 if not going way passed the 4 unit of same sort and russians might have the same problem. Egypt and turks on the other hand I think can field very good armies as always :)
Kalle
|Heerbann|_Di3Hard
02-21-2007, 14:10
Only byz would be indeed boring :laugh4: Maybe we should thinking over the rules. valour 1 anti cav is too weak too in my opinion.
AggonyDuck
02-21-2007, 14:13
In my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with only Byz.:yes:
Why not try 7-8k without any valour limitations? It might result in a rather interesting balance.
|Heerbann|_Luculus
02-21-2007, 15:19
V1 is really interesting. Otherwise it will be cwc again. I prefer to try out the new rules (all v1).
Thought I might just add that rather than use a specific valour upgrade level, you could potentially use a maximum valour upgrade differential. This could be set at 0, 1/2, 1 etc, although 1/2 might be quite interesting. Note that weapon and armour upgrades are counted as 1/2 valour upgrades. For instance a V2 CMAA and a V0 CK have a V2 difference. If it is required to keep the CMAA at V2 then the CK must be bumped up to at least V1(w1 or a1), although it could go to V2 or V2(w1 or a1), assuming a 1/2 valour upgrade differential.
The valour upgrade difference is calculated as the maximum valour upgrade level of all units minus the minimum valour upgrade level of all units.
The v1 is just to get the morale up. The game actually works at v0 5k, but the morale is so low that there is a lot of routing, and later in the battle you end up with a lot of exhausted units scattered over the map that can't run anymore and re-rout when they get close to an enemy unit. Maybe playing at less than 8k would help the factions that can't spend 8k at all v1.
Spears and halberdiers will be a bit touchy at v1 because of their relatively low morale, but if you let them go to v2 then they are too expensive relative to the other units. The only way to really fix MTW/VI is to modify it.
Stoicblitzer
02-21-2007, 19:55
V1 is really interesting. Otherwise it will be cwc again. I prefer to try out the new rules (all v1).
i agree.
one faction max per team is not a bad idea, but im easy.~:) although that might create: byz, egypt, turks, xxxx vs byz, egypt, turks, xxxx.. so nothing would be solved. tomi-sama?
AggonyLion
02-22-2007, 00:30
Hey Guys i think having val 1 for all units with no upgrades would be a bit 2D with everyone basicly having the same armys, so i think if all units must have val1 then we must have free upgrades to liven things up a bit and would make it much more interesting imo.
what do u think ?:juggle2:
-AggonyLion{Leo}
Hey Guys i think having val 1 for all units with no upgrades would be a bit 2D with everyone basicly having the same armys, so i think if all units must have val1 then we must have free upgrades to liven things up a bit and would make it much more interesting imo.
I posted the armies I took in two all v1 battles. They aren't 2D. I had all 4 components: range, sword, spear and cav, in my army. If you allow upgraded swords, then the spears don't stand a chance. Upgrading ranged units is bad because they get a discount on upgrades and it turns them into melee units. Upgraded spears are too expensive.
You have 100 units to choose from in MTW/VI. How can it be boring with that many units from which to choose, and why shouldn't a player know what unit beat what before he sends his units in to attack? How do you know what matchups to make if you don't know what beats what?
I think whoever uses their units better should win not whoever makes the most cost effective upgrades.
AggonyDuck
02-22-2007, 01:01
Well the one faction max per team won't really fix the problems caused by the Valour One only rule. As it is there are some factions which will be picked over others. I don't think we will be seeing any of the Chiv Knight equalents in army selections, mostly due to their very high price.
Without faction limits the Byz will be picked my most players, just due to the fact that these rules give them the best unit line up. The muslims and Russians suffer with these rules, due to the fact that their units need the additional upgrades to be competitive and I don't think we will see a lot of them. As for the catholics, well Feudal Knights will most likely be the mainstay unit with CMAA in support. I believe people will be avoiding the spears as normal due to their ineffectiveness and look for proper supporting cav instead. The problem is that there is a lack of good supporting cavalry for most catholic factions, with the Polish Retainers, Teutonic Sergeants and the Szekely propably being the best choices.
I'd say that with the current rules, these five factions will be the most used:
-Byzantines (superb unit lineup for these rules)
-Polish (one of the two catholic factions with a decent medium cav to support the feudals)
-Germans (the same as with Poland)
-England (longbows and templars, need I say more?)
-Hungarians (Szekely is a decent supporting unit)
Personally I'd favour scrapping the whole valour one idea and instead just set the florin level at 7-8k, preferably 7k. This will allow for a greater faction/unit selection, while still also keeping the morale level lower. I think we have a good example from the KoV tournament, where most players where upgrading their CMAA with weapons. This shows that there is a tendency to strive for stronger infantry over strong cavalry, and I believe we should try to sate that desire. It will most likely be enjoyable for all of us.
Personally I'd favour scrapping the whole valour one idea and instead just set the florin level at 7-8k, preferably 7k. This will allow for a greater faction/unit selection, while still also keeping the morale level lower. I think we have a good example from the KoV tournament, where most players where upgrading their CMAA with weapons. This shows that there is a tendency to strive for stronger infantry over strong cavalry, and I believe we should try to sate that desire. It will most likely be enjoyable for all of us.
They upgrade the swords so that they can beat cavalry. That's just plain wrong from a gameplay perspective. It's the upgrades that caused the gameplay to deteriorate into 2 components: cav/swords. Playing at 7k doesn't fix it because the RPS breaks at 6k when using upgrades.
I'm less concerned with what factions are viable than I am with achieving a 4 component gameplay. However, maybe that's not achievable in MTW/VI which is actually why I stopped playing it. Two component gameplay is of no interest to me.
AggonyDuck
02-22-2007, 01:35
I posted the armies I took in two all v1 battles. They aren't 2D. I had all 4 components: range, sword, spear and cav, in my army. If you allow upgraded swords, then the spears don't stand a chance. Upgrading ranged units is bad because they get a discount on upgrades and it turns them into melee units. Upgraded spears are too expensive.
Now try the same with one of you taking the Byzantines. If the Byz knows what he is doing, he will win. About valour 1 rules; I don't think you will see spears in this tournament. It is far easier to just buy cavalry instead, because as we all know, spears are not cost-efficient. Either way VI has always been about infantry and cavalry, not swords-spears-cavalry and to be honest, I think it works better that way.
You have 100 units to choose from in MTW/VI. How can it be boring with that many units from which to choose, and why shouldn't a player know what unit beat what before he sends his units in to attack? How do you know what matchups to make if you don't know what beats what?
Because the valour one rule actually cuts down the truly useful units. Many units need the upgrades to actually be effective unit choices and without the upgrades they will just sink into the pit of uselessness.
As to unit matchups; I have never had any problems of knowing what beats what and I believe most of us VI regulars do not suffer from that problem either. So I'd be surprised if you actually suffer from that problem Yuuki.
I think whoever uses their units better should win not whoever makes the most cost effective upgrades.
Cost effectiveness has always been a factor in the game, with or without upgrades. The Valour One rule does not reduce its role in the game. It is still there in the background as it always has been.
As to he who uses his units better winning, I've always found that to be the case in VI 10k. Army selection alone will never win a game, although it might be beneficial at times. It always comes down to how the units are used, especially in team games.
AggonyDuck
02-22-2007, 01:48
They upgrade the swords so that they can beat cavalry. That's just plain wrong from a gameplay perspective. It's the upgrades that caused the gameplay to deteriorate into 2 components: cav/swords. Playing at 7k doesn't fix it because the RPS breaks at 6k when using upgrades.
I'm less concerned with what factions are viable than I am with achieving a 4 component gameplay. However, maybe that's not achievable in MTW/VI which is actually why I stopped playing it. Two component gameplay is of no interest to me.
Well you won't be fixing the RPS with any Valour 1 rules. Only a stat redesign will fix it. For example in the KoV tournament an spear/halberd was a rarity. But as it is I find the two component gameplay to be highly enjoyable and possess a surprising depth. The RPS-based balance really isn't needed in VI. VI already has a balance revolving around the different strengths of infantry and cavalry, which works superbly.
If I ever need to play decent RPS-based gameplay, I'll turn to SamWars.
Now try the same with one of you taking the Byzantines. If the Byz knows what he is doing, he will win. About valour 1 rules; I don't think you will see spears in this tournament. It is far easier to just buy cavalry instead, because as we all know, spears are not cost-efficient. Either way VI has always been about infantry and cavalry, not swords-spears-cavalry and to be honest, I think it works better that way.
I have no interest in 2 component gameplay and rules that enhance such gameplay, so I'm out. If Byz is such a big problem in all v1, then it could be banned.
Tomisama
02-22-2007, 03:25
Ok, lets up the skill level.
Take any Faction you want.
Build an army for 5k or less.
But you can only use one each of any unit type.
All units at Valour one, with no other upgrades.
Any takers?
:egypt:
P.S. This could be the most interesting Total War tournament there ever was :yes:
You will be needing VIArmyBuilderPlus, if you don’t already have it.
http://www.clanwarscomp.org/tools/VIArmyBuilderPlus.zip
Note: This tool is only reasonably accurate, but good enough to work up your initial troop line up ideas.
:charge:
Logfiles will be required to verify each win is legitimate.
R'as al Ghul
02-22-2007, 13:16
*whispers from the shadows:* Or you could try CBR's community mod.
Or we could use the samwars mod, that would be nice I think.
Kalle
Or we could use the samwars mod, that would be nice I think.
The tourney is for people playing VI. The all v1 makes cavalry more expensive which should help make spears a more viable choice, and should ensure that swords don't beat cav which I thought would be a good thing for the gameplay. I'm not claiming it's perfect, but I took 2 orderfoot in both my games vs CBR, and I did ok.
I'll try playing against Byz with CBR. Some of the weaker factions like the Russians can still be useful for finesse strategy. A 4 man team can afford to have 1 finesse player in the lineup. You just can't adopt a strategy where the 4 armies line up opposite the enemy's 4 armies and slug it out. You could also help the weaker factions by reducing the money per player to something less than 8k.
I don't know about max 1 of each unit type. I personally think that's too drastic a change. This tourney could be a test to see if all v1 provides anything new to the playbalance. According to Ducky it will be bad, but he's also stated his preference for the standard 10k MTW/VI cav/sword gameplay. For the record, CBR also thinks all v1 won't be all that good either. Players could try the all v1 in some test battles to see what they think.
AggonyLion
02-22-2007, 19:50
I'm less concerned with what factions are viable than I am with achieving a 4 component gameplay. However, maybe that's not achievable in MTW/VI which is actually why I stopped playing it. Two component gameplay is of no interest to me.
With all due respected mate :embarassed: i have not been in TW online as long as u but i (we) never left Vi why? because we love it for what it is, and theres no point in u saying u left it because u dont like the game play so why come back and tell the rest of us what rules we "should" use and then mone when we have a good idea, does not make sence to me. :inquisitive:
I mean no offence Puzz:oops: just they way it seems to me.
What do the rest of u think ??
-AggonyLion{Leo}
With all due respected mate :embarassed: i have not been in TW online as long as u but i (we) never left Vi why? because we love it for what it is, and theres no point in u saying u left it because u dont like the game play so why come back and tell the rest of us what rules we "should" use and then mone when we have a good idea, does not make sence to me. :inquisitive:
I didn't make the rule. Tomi made the all v1 rule, and I started gathering a team based on that. I've now told the people I was gathering for the tournamnt to forget about it since it's obvious that most of the players want the inferior 2 component gameplay.
Grey_Fox
02-22-2007, 20:34
I'm not downloading any mod, I don't have the connection for it.
Perhaps playing at 7k instead would be a better idea?
AggonyLion
02-22-2007, 20:36
I kind of like the Val 1 Rule i would just like to see upgrades aloud, or we may as well be in early or ban chiv knights thats all
Mind u having Val 1 and Val 0 would be great also :yes:
-AggonyLion{Leo}
well after reading all comments above, i dont know wot to say, maybe only 2 unit of heavy cav each? lower the florins ? gah:help:
I think all val 1 is just fine, so what if armies become slightly similar, you can trust the community to add variation to the games, - its in danger of becoming far too complicated....
:2thumbsup:
AggonyDuck
02-22-2007, 23:07
I'd personally favour a simple 7k high era tournament. It would mean that each player would have 437.5 florins per unit, which would put the units used between 200-900 florins in cost. I believe we would have a highly enjoyable game at those florin levels. It should give us a nice relation between infantry and cavalry. Anyway I suggest we try it tomorrow.
As to your suggestion Tomi, I tried it and it is interesting to a degree, but I'm not sure if I'd enjoy playing with such armies. Anyway as always in the end we will play what you ultimately decide to be for the best, but until your final decision I'll be lobbying just a simple 7k tournament.:yes:
AggonyLion
02-23-2007, 00:41
I'd personally favour a simple 7k high era tournament. It would mean that each player would have 437.5 florins per unit, which would put the units used between 200-900 florins in cost. I believe we would have a highly enjoyable game at those florin levels. It should give us a nice relation between infantry and cavalry. Anyway I suggest we try it tomorrow.
but until your final decision I'll be lobbying just a simple 7k tournament.:yes:
Yeah sounds Good :beam:
Tomisama
02-23-2007, 03:23
Seven is very doable :yes:
Valour one at 7k with no upgrades, levels the field for a good contest, and still leaves many choices open.
Any limitations on Factions can be argued between Team Leaders when they set the date and time for their Match.
Going to try to have at least a Sigh Up forum and Rules up by Saturday afternoon, and can probably assign Matches and have negotiations started by next weekend, depending on how quick we can get everybody in.
Will be posting the link very soon.
If you know of any Clans that might be interested, please post their name, and link too if you can. As soon as the message board is ready, I will go a visiting :wink:
Allrighty then lets go!!!
I hope you bring your team back in Yuukie and I hope to see many other clans and players!!
Will it be knockout style or every team has to face every team or we split into groups (not that I think we will be enough teams for very many groups)
Kalle
how bout a round robin torny, with all teams play eachother maybe twice, and the top 2 go to final
We tried 7k all val 1 yesterday. Nothing wrong with it, very funny it was :egypt:
/Kalle
Tomisama
02-24-2007, 17:45
Thanks Kalle, that’s great!
I just finished completely rebuilding the CWC message board from scratch.
The Valour One Tourney forums are there but bare, but you can still Sign Up you Clan Team, or yourself as a Mercenary if you wish, at any time.
The long way:
http://www.clanwarscomp.org/
The short way:
http://p219.ezboard.com/bclanwars3540
Have started on the Rules, and should have them up tomorrow morning (read noon) :charge:
AggonyLion
02-24-2007, 18:41
Hmm i still think it needs a little work to be really good, 0val inf upgrades or val 2 mulisha inf are a must basicly the armys dont work imo u get a few great units but then your left with an odd amount of cash that u cant spend that u could put on upgrades to make up a usefull unit in your army.:help:
Apart from that the rules are ok just need a little something to sort it out.:idea2:
-AggonyLion{Leo}
AggonyLion
02-24-2007, 18:50
[QUOTE=AggonyLion] 0val inf upgrades QUOTE]
"0val inf, Wep shield upgrades"
Dont worry about it Leo, lets get it started, I am eager!!! Next fridays session I hope will be a tourneymatch.
Kalle
yep lets do it was good to play at least 3v3 aggs v aggs lol, i had a good army, and one not so good, cough,
good to see Gawain and Shields come to play :thumbsup:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
02-25-2007, 04:39
Ok, lets up the skill level.
Take any Faction you want.
Build an army for 5k or less.
But you can only use one each of any unit type.
All units at Valour one, with no other upgrades.
Any takers?
:egypt:
P.S. This could be the most interesting Total War tournament there ever was :yes:
You will be needing VIArmyBuilderPlus, if you don’t already have it.
http://www.clanwarscomp.org/tools/VIArmyBuilderPlus.zip
Note: This tool is only reasonably accurate, but good enough to work up your initial troop line up ideas.
:charge:
Logfiles will be required to verify each win is legitimate.
Hey,
Master Tomisama, The King Has Praise you for giving him the Gift of the ArmyBuilder. I shall Pass it along to my Ronin Team.
I bow
:yes:
Tomisama
02-25-2007, 17:04
Hey,
Master Tomisama, The King Has Praise you for giving him the Gift of the ArmyBuilder. I shall Pass it along to my Ronin Team.
I bow
:yes:Thanks Wars :smile:
Now everyone,
Please understand that all of the above was "discussion" in preparation for this Contest.
The official Valour One Tournament Rules were posted today, and are ready for your evaluation.
http://p219.ezboard.com/bclanwars3540
Any further discussion should be presented on the Valour One Discussion forum.
Sign Up is also open and waiting :wink:
:charge:
AggonyLion
02-25-2007, 17:50
Thank you Tomi :bow:
-AggonyLion{Leo}
Hunter KIng George
02-25-2007, 19:26
Woot!!!! ~:thumb:
AggonyDuck
02-25-2007, 23:15
Why the sudden allowing of weapons/armour upgrades?
Tomisama
02-26-2007, 00:55
Why the sudden allowing of weapons/armour upgrades?
It wasn’t sudden :smile:
I considered the possibility of allowing non valour upgrades for a good 24 hours.
My original thought was that these upgrades could be abused, so left them out.
But then there was the problem of wasted money, and how important getting every florin spent can be to fair game play.
I figured that with the weight that each unit brings to the field with the valour one format, that upgrades would probably not make that much difference without infringing on the low 7k budget.
Also non valour upgrades don’t raise the morale of the unit, and no matter how well armed or shielded your troops are, it is morale that keep them in the fight :wink:
I could be wrong, but my instincts are telling me it wont be a problem.
While I am doing some explaining, a word about the strength of cavalry at valour one.
Knights should be overpowering :knight:
The armored knight was the tank of the medieval period, and were to be avoided by all but other mounted knights.
There is a chance for abuse here also. But the cost of the valour one knight is self limiting.
Again I could be wrong, but again my instincts are telling me that it wont be a problem.
Do you have a specific disagreement with adding the upgrades?
We can talk about it up to the point when matches are assigned :yes:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
02-26-2007, 02:10
Hey,
I did some Pratice MTW games with one of my Ronin Teammates today, Some 9K games (Tomi met him btw :D), then I hurry off and went back to 7K, as I forgot it was 7K
But even still. We was able to pick some good 5-6K armies, but we had anywhere from 260-630K left and He told me personallly that the Rule of Upgrading Armor and such needed to be added in. Good Idea imo.
Those rules seem good. For those who need the extra possibility to spend money allowing the upgrades is good (I got no problem spending it on a straight val one though :clown: ).
Since every unit still must be val 1 I dont think it can be used in a balancewrecking way. Upgrading to much on weapon or armour will make the rest of the army to weak.
Kalle
Tomisama
02-27-2007, 12:58
Five Clan groups have Signed Up in the first few days.
Not sure how many Teams that means yet :grin:
But if you want a piece of this, we need to hear from you, as soon as possible.
http://p219.ezboard.com/fclanwars3540frm81.showMessage?topicID=1.topic
If you are an individual player who would like to participate, please don’t hesitate to post your availability.
There may be Teams looking for Mercenaries, or other individual players you can band up with (has happened).
It won’t be long until we get going.
:charge:
I think Aggony have not posted the sign in yet but we will asap.
Kalle
do we sign for Aggony , >? or do we leave that to Shields our emissary even tho i dont think he is participating
Hi guys,
7k sounds good to me ^_^ I've always thought it provided better balance than 10k.
I'd love to play but my clan is pretty inactive these days. Can anyone adopt me temporarily?
Stoicblitzer
02-27-2007, 23:45
hey buu. RTK may be interested in some mercenaries. i'll keep you updated.
i still use that buukenshin mod, btw. :-)
Gawain of Orkeny
02-28-2007, 11:19
Sorry. Dont care for these rules in the least. To much restraint. Why allow v1 Heavy cav? v0 was much better with anti cav at v1. Just my 2 cents. In fact I despise these rules.
Why allow v1 Heavy cav? v0 was much better with anti cav at v1.
The idea is to raise the price of cav closer to where it should be relative to the infantry. A cav should be at least 2x the cost of the infantry that beats it to account for the higher mobility of the cav. It doesn't achieve that because the spears weren't put back to the cost they had in MTW v1.0 as we requested, but it's closer than leaving cav at v0 while the spears have to go to v1 just to have enough morale to make them usable. I realize now that the people who play MTW/VI regularly don't care if spears are usable. You could remove them from the game, and it wouldn't matter to them.
Gawain of Orkeny
02-28-2007, 20:44
but it's closer than leaving cav at v0 while the spears have to go to v1 just to have enough morale to make them usable. I realize now that the people who play MTW/VI regularly don't care if spears are usable. You could remove them from the game, and it wouldn't matter to them.
Thats the reason I dont like the v1 rules. Are you telling me that V1 Chiv Knights wont destroy V1 spears? That V0 Chivs wouldnt have a harder time? Isnt vo chivs vs V1 spears better? Which makes spears more vialble?
Are you telling me that V1 Chiv Knights wont destroy V1 spears?
Yes.
v1 Orderfoot cost 680 have 5 melee + 2 shield + 5 anti-cav + 3 rank = 15 combat points vs cav and 10 vs inf.
v1 Chiv Knights cost 1147 have 12 melee = 12 combat points.
v1 Chiv Man-at-Arms cost 425 have 9 melee + 1 shield + 1 bonus vs spears = 10 combat points vs cav and 11 vs spears.
The orderfoot are 3 combat points better than the chiv knight which is 1.2**3 = 1.7 times better as long as they are at least 3 ranks deep. The chiv knight is 2 combat points better than the cmaa which is 1.2**2 = 1.4 times better plus you have the charge bonus which will get you about 10 kills on contact. The cmaa are 1 combat point better than the orderfoot which is 1.2**1 = 1.2 times better.
Those numbers do not show the complete truth. Id prefer a chiv knight val 1 in my army over a val 1 orderfoot any day.
The point of the rule is that you CANT AFFORD so many chiv knigths (or other heavy cav) as you can if you were allowed to bring them at val 0. That is the whole thing. I am not at all certain this rule will lead to more spears but it will lead to fewer heavy cav.
Another thing. The lower in florin you go the stronger the cavalry gets. The higher in florin you go the stronger the infantry gets. Very simple and very true since the more money you get the more valour goes to infantry.
Look at 10k games. Upgrades are on infantry, cavalry are still val 0. Look at 15k, all u see are val 4 mil sarg, fmaa and cmaa and val 0 or tops val 1 heavy cav. Go even higher and you will start to see spears also.
Kalle
BTW you have still not signed your team up Yuukie?? 7k val 1 is what you wanted or very near it, the allowance of wepaon and armourupgrade can not take away the balance since no one will be able to use it enough at this florin to ruin it.
Those numbers do not show the complete truth. Id prefer a chiv knight val 1 in my army over a val 1 orderfoot any day.
I wouldn't. I'll have 1147 - 680 = 467 to spend on something else. Besides that, you can't beat my orderfoot with your chiv knight. Even if you do, if you loose more than 24 of your chiv knights doing it, it's not cost effective.
Another thing. The lower in florin you go the stronger the cavalry gets. The higher in florin you go the stronger the infantry gets. Very simple and very true since the more money you get the more valour goes to infantry.
The cavalry should be strong. It should obliterate ranged units almost instantly, and it should defeat the sword infantry decisively. The problem with using upgrades is that the swords and ranged units get most of the upgrading and become too strong relative to the cav and spears. This happens because the swords are cheap, and the ranged get discounts on their upgrades.
Look at 10k games. Upgrades are on infantry, cavalry are still val 0. Look at 15k, all u see are val 4 mil sarg, fmaa and cmaa and val 0 or tops val 1 heavy cav. Go even higher and you will start to see spears also.
I've been saying the upgrades break the RPS ever since MTW v1.1 was released. Creative Assembly claims the gameplay is RPS.
BTW you have still not signed your team up Yuukie?? 7k val 1 is what you wanted or very near it, the allowance of wepaon and armour upgrade can not take away the balance since no one will be able to use it enough at this florin to ruin it.
It will hinder light cav beating ranged units if players put upgrades on the ranged units. You will be seeing a lot more light cav, so that cav had better be able to do the job. Also, armor upgrades on ranged units is not desirable because ranged fire is already weak. Those may not be major issues. I don't know. I just haven't been able to raise a team.
Tomisama
03-02-2007, 01:35
Hunters, Ronin, Heerbann, Cacciatori, White Knights, Aggony, and RTK.
Seven Teams. One more and we go :charge:
P.S. Starting with the current competitions (M2TW and Valor One), Clan Wars will have several new awards. Beyond the Winners and Finalist standard trophies, we are now considering a small signature-ready campaign ribbon for all who participate. And last but certainly not least, we are working on a plan to have the winning Clan elect a Most Valuable Player from their contest Team mates, for special recognition. More on this later :grin:
I wouldn't. I'll have 1147 - 680 = 467 to spend on something else. Besides that, you can't beat my orderfoot with your chiv knight. Even if you do, if you loose more than 24 of your chiv knights doing it, it's not cost effective.
Well, if the discussion is about saving florin then Ill get the knight at val 0 or with the rules in this tourney I get a val 1 feudal knight, even less combatpoints but id still prefer it over the val 1 spear simply because it is so much more useful and your spear would run before my knights does simply because the person using the cavalry usually decides when and where to strike.
A knight at val 0 or 1 can decide the outcome of the battle, a spear val 1 in mtw-vi usually can not. Sure it might hold a line for a while or win in a frontal fight vs a cav but that is all theory and the situation is not likely to happen. The likely thing is that my val one knight kills you cavalry that must be cheap cavalry since you spent your money on spears and then my cavalry swings to the back of our engaged lines and carries the day.
It becomes even more obvious if you get 3-4 spears and put them in a line and the opponent has equal number of cav positioned in a line opposing urs. Before you can do much about it all the cavalry hits one of your flanks and the spear line will crumble, this also is a theoretical situation but not without connection to what might actually happen in a game.
That being said I do think (and know from experience) that there are tactics that are best done using spears even at low florin games and im sure they can be put to use in this tourney as you tried it vs CBR for instance.
As for putting armour on the missiles taking away the strenght of the light cav I do think it would usually be a waste of money since allready getting 3-4 pavise crossbow or normal crossbow at val 1 in 7k is costly. And even if they have armour they will get tired after exchanging some volleys with opposing missileunits, hold the strike until then :)
Anyways, try get a team together. Buu wants to play for instance and maybe he can bring Cain with him and/or Alexandros.
Kalle
AggonyDuck
03-02-2007, 13:38
I can only say this; these rules replace the overpowered swords with the overpowered cavs. Simply there is a lack of proper counter units against them now; the spears are both expensive, weak in morale and are very slow in killing the cavalry, while the polearms are plagued by high cost and/or poor morale. Add to this the fact that they're seldom actually able to catch cavalry, and it is hardly surprising that Muslim cavalry armies will most likely rule the battlefield if the player knows what he is doing.
EDIT: But that said, I do like using Muslim cavalry armies. ~;)
It will be intresting to find out....
SEE YOU ON THE FIELD !
oh wait !, i dont have a team yet :S...
but really, if u want some proper unit balance in the medieval era we should totally play Dux mod ;)
Well, if the discussion is about saving florin then Ill
get the knight at val 0 or with the rules in this tourney I get a val
1 feudal knight, even less combatpoints but id still prefer it over
the val 1 spear simply because it is so much more useful and your
spear would run before my knights does simply because the person using the cavalry usually decides when and where to strike.
If you take a feudal knight (722), I'll take a chiv seargeant (510).
orderfoot/chiv knight = 680/1147 = .59 with a 3 combat point advantage.
chiv sarg/chiv knight = 510/1147 = .44 with a 2 combat point advantage.
chiv sarg/feud knight = 510/722 = .70 with a 4 combat point advantage.
feud sarg/feud knight = 340/722 = .47 with a 1 combat point advantage.
The chiv sargeant has lower morale, but they do work. They even worked at v0 in 5k mtw/vi games. You can get the morale back with a feudal sargeant, and it's 20% stronger in combat than the feudal knight for less than half the cost. The 1 combat point advantage of the FS is on the attack value while the 4 combat advantage of the CS is all on the defend value, so the FS will kill cav 20% faster than the CS and the same rate as the OF. The FS will loose a lot more men.
Admittedly, it's nowhere near the YS/HC 400/1200 = .33 with a 4 combat point advantage of spears in Samurai Wars. It has become apparent that 99% of the players around here don't want that kind of gameplay anyway.
A knight at val 0 or 1 can decide the outcome of the
battle, a spear val 1 in mtw-vi usually can not. Sure it might hold a
line for a while or win in a frontal fight vs a cav but that is all
theory and the situation is not likely to happen. The likely thing is
that my val one knight kills you cavalry that must be cheap cavalry
since you spent your money on spears and then my cavalry swings to the
back of our engaged lines and carries the day.
Mobility should cost something, and when you can take cav at v0 in 10k mtw/vi games it isn't costing anything relative to a spear which needs upgrades to compete with the upgraded swords. It's not theory that the spears win in a frontal fight at equal valor. You can prove it with tests.
The tactical problem is to get the spears matched up with the cav. Assuming equal money spent on ranged units, the army with no spears can have better cav than the army that contains spears. However, the army that contains spears can have better swords. For example:
CK (1147) + FMAA (297) + FMAA (297) = 1741
FK (722) + OF (680) + CMAA (425) = 1827
It's not quite equal cost, but it's close. Since weapon and armor upgrades are allowed, the player with the two FMAA can put +1 weapon on one of the FMAA making it equal to a CMAA but with less morale.
CK (1147) + FMAA (297) + FMAA + 1W (396) = 1840
FK (722) + OF (680) + CMAA (425) = 1827
The player with the CMAA could switch it to FMAA + 1W, but the 29 saved might not be enough to be useful. I don't think you'd want more than 2 OF because you won't be seeing more than 2 CK even from someone who is hell bent on going with a cav/sword army.
Clearly the CMAA will beat the FMAA, the FK will beat the FMAA + 1W and the OF will beat the CK. The main difficulty is getting the OF matched up with the CK. The OF has to react to the movement of the CK, and has to be close enough to engage the CK if it goes after the FK or the CMAA. The player who takes spears has to be a reactive counterattacking type of player who doesn't mind conceeding the initiative to the other player. Also, you clearly have to manage 3 different types of melee units rather than the 2 different types of regular mtw/vi 10k.
The cav has the initiative because it has higher mobility than the spear, but the spear can rotate fast enough to prevent the cav from flanking it. The spear has to avoid getting locked up with a sword so that it's available to counter cav.
It becomes even more obvious if you get 3-4 spears and put them in a line and the opponent has equal number of cav positioned in a line opposing urs. Before you can do much about it all the cavalry hits one of your flanks and the spear line will crumble, this also is a theoretical situation but not without connection to what might actually happen in a game.
Making a spear line of that can be pinned by enemy swords is not a good tactic. The enemy cav will most likely come around the flanks and win. Spears would be best used to defend the flanks, but the enemy can send his swords to the flank and the spear player has to have a response to that.
That being said I do think (and know from experience) that there are tactics that are best done using spears even at low florin games and im sure they can be put to use in this tourney as you tried it vs CBR for instance.
I favored the OF, but CBR favored the CS when we were playing the 5k games. The CS is more cost effective, but I prefer the stronger unit since you can use it more aggressively. Above 6k CBR wouldn't take spears, and he demonstrated very clearly to me in several MP battles that the spears were not viable when playing with more than 6k using upgrades. CBR thinks the gameplay is still too far out of balance even with the all v1 rule. I'm not so sure about that, but then again I used 4 spears all through MTW v1.1 and well into VI. It took me a long time to give up on the spears, and then I tried very hard substituting swiss halberdiers. I was even using 4 swiss halberdiers in the finals of the mtw/vi cwc 4v4 against the Silents, but they only succeeded in the first battle and then they started using vikings to kill the halberdiers.
As for putting armour on the missiles taking away the strenght of the light cav I do think it would usually be a waste of money since already getting 3-4 pavise crossbow or normal crossbow at val 1 in 7k is costly. And even if they have armour they will get tired after exchanging some volleys with opposing missileunits, hold the strike until then.
You're probably right. I just don't know how cheaply they can get it with the discount.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-02-2007, 21:34
Hunters, Ronin, Heerbann, Cacciatori, White Knights, Aggony, and RTK.
Seven Teams. One more and we go :charge:
P.S. Starting with the current competitions (M2TW and Valor One), Clan Wars will have several new awards. Beyond the Winners and Finalist standard trophies, we are now considering a small signature-ready campaign ribbon for all who participate. And last but certainly not least, we are working on a plan to have the winning Clan elect a Most Valuable Player from their contest Team mates, for special recognition. More on this later :grin:
Hey,
good idea Tomi..:yes: :beam:
I think it's good for teams that don't win the CWC tournment or be a finalist to at least get a ribbon or something to say "Hey,at least we was in CWC and had fun.."
:yes: :yes:
|Heerbann|_Luculus
03-03-2007, 17:06
There are a lot of Ronins. So perhaps some ronins who are not needed from Clans could build an own team and take part at the tourney. So all can play and we got one more team.
just looking on the clan war forum and just saw that we need the vi mappack...
any chance u could give me a link to download this vi mappack
thanks in advance
-Scias-
Tomisama
03-03-2007, 21:31
http://www.clanwarscomp.org/samurai/MP_MapPackVol1-3.zip
:bow:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-04-2007, 01:22
There are a lot of Ronins. So perhaps some ronins who are not needed from Clans could build an own team and take part at the tourney. So all can play and we got one more team.
Hey m8,
there is a Ronin Team in there, and It is Lead by Me, FYI :2thumbsup: :yes:
Tomisama
03-04-2007, 15:28
Valor One Tournament First Round posted :knight:
http://p219.ezboard.com/fclanwars3540frm84
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-04-2007, 18:13
Hey,
YAY,good luck all!!!!!!!!
WWAAAAAAARMAAAANNN, I hope you are preparing both urself and ur troops, I hear that we, the mighty hurting Aggonys. are preparing to ride into your lands to inflict pain and carry home whatever loot we might find!!!!! :viking: :viking:
What army are you gonna use?? Tell me so we can discuss it!!!! :clown:
/Kalle
After some all v1 battles last Saturday, Ducky is right. While I did see some examples of spears working in the team battles, spear morale is a bit too low for team games where they can be swarmed by cav. They worked ok in 1v1, but the outnumbered morale penalty tends to be larger in team games. Spears may still be viable if used conservatively.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-05-2007, 18:12
WWAAAAAAARMAAAANNN, I hope you are preparing both urself and ur troops, I hear that we, the mighty hurting Aggonys. are preparing to ride into your lands to inflict pain and carry home whatever loot we might find!!!!! :viking: :viking:
What army are you gonna use?? Tell me so we can discuss it!!!! :clown:
/Kalle
HEY KALLLLLLLLLE,
We are Prepring to defend our Swissland Home and Swissland Castle 2_5_2 against your troops,SWISSLANDWARRIORS ALWAYS SAY NO SURRENDER:clown: :beam:
What Army?? I proably Will be using Poland for 1 game and another faction for another:beam:
Stoicblitzer
03-06-2007, 09:51
switzerland
R'as al Ghul
03-06-2007, 10:44
I've played my first Medieval game since ages on Saturday in a v1 test game.
I was a bit puzzled. It feels very slow compared to SamWars, especially the spears and pavs move like snails.
What really annoyed me was the performance of Jinetes. I thought they were a ranged unit. :wink: I had to get so close with them that it felt like a melee unit. Do you have any advise on their use? Are they worth considering at all or should I better go for Mounted Sergeants?
Tosa, have you been satisfied with the performance of your Jinetes?
Jinetes have a javelin which are very short range. They are the same as mounted sargeants in melee except for lower charge bonus. Morale is the same for both, but the Jinetes are faster. I tend to like the unit, but haven't tried it in the all v1 battles. Javelins can be positioned behind your infantry and used as close support just before the infantry engages in melee.
Hello R'as al Ghul,
They are short range javelins. Ranges in RTW and M2TW are higher, so when used to that it will require some time to get the hang. I've no complaint about my Jinetes.
I normally use Jinetes to support the hand to hand combat: throw a few missiles and then backstab. But the situation was a bit different now.
Spearunits move slower yes, fair because they have to carry a shield, which ashigaru didn't have.
Tomisama
03-06-2007, 14:06
If you want the best in horse archers go Hungarian Szekely :charge:
Has any one gone so far as to make up a Valour One unit spec or comparison chart?
P.S. Sorry I missed any further Sam games Sunday. Game Spy locked my name out, then I got tangled up with re-starts and re-registration errors. Finally ended up reversing (which worried George), then shortening my name to get in. But it was all over :dizzy2:
R'as al Ghul
03-06-2007, 14:36
Of course they're ranged, I knew that but that they're so short ranged I didn't expect. I tried to get Tosa's General with them and at one time I was uphill and very close by and yet they didn't fire a single shot. That was frustrating. I've to admit that I'm used to the M2 Javelins.
Spearunits move slower yes, fair because they have to carry a shield, which ashigaru didn't have.
I didn't want to start anything. Honestly. :hide:
Has any one gone so far as to make up a Valour One unit spec or comparison chart?
I'll look into it. Maybe I can come up with something.
Spears in MTW/VI are the same speed as yari samurai in STW and SW: walk speed = 6 and run speed = 10. The yari ashigaru are 20% faster: walk 7 and run 12. Cav is the same speed as well: regular cav run speed = 20, light cav run speed = 24 with the exception of cav archers in STW and SW with are only run speed = 20.
R'as al Ghul
03-06-2007, 16:50
Okay then. Good to know.
Seems to be a matter of perception when I thought it was slower.
Has any one gone so far as to make up a Valour One unit spec or comparison chart?
Use Yas' VI units master tool for MTW/VI. http://totalwar.co.kr/medieval/indexx.html
R'as al Ghul
03-06-2007, 17:11
How's the formula?
v1 adds 1 att, 1 def and 2 morale?
If so I can post a spreadsheet here.
v1 adds 1 att, 1 def and 2 morale?
Yes. You'll have to look in the projectiles.txt file to see the discount on ungrades the various ranged weapons get.
Tomisama
03-07-2007, 02:36
Use Yas' VI units master tool for MTW/VI. http://totalwar.co.kr/medieval/indexx.html
Yes I have the Unit Master, thanks.
And Army Builder too.
But a single page, compare-at-a-glance chart, is a very handy thing to have when you need a quick reference :yes:
R'as al Ghul
03-07-2007, 12:14
Infantry stats @ valour 1:
Numbers in parenthesis show the attack/ defense bonus versus Cavalry. $ designates the Shield for Armour and Defense. It's noted on the right side of the respective Armour or Defense value
3^Name|Cost|Men|Cha|Att|Def| $|Arm| $|Mor|AP
7^AbyssinianGuard|298|60|4|5|1||1||8|AP
7^AlmohadUrbanMilitia|340|60|3|4|4|$1|4|$1|4|
7^ArabInfantry|213|60|2|5|-1|$1|1|$1|6|
7^ArmouredSpearmen|425|100|5|0|3|$2|3|$2|2|
7^Billmen|510|60|2|3|5||3||4|AP
7^ByzantineInfantry|340|100|3|3|3|$2|3|$2|2|
7^ChivalricFootKnights|935|40|2|5|7||5||10|AP
7^ChivalricManAtArms|425|60|3|5|4|$1|4|$1|6|
7^ChivalricSergeants|510|100|5|0|4|$2|3|$2|2|
7^DismountedFaris|255|40|2|5|1|$1|2|$1|6|
7^FeudalFootKnights|468|40|3|6|3|$2|3|$2|10|
7^FeudalManAtArms|298|60|3|4|3|$2|3|$2|4|
7^FeudalSergeants|340|100|5|1|0|$2|1|$2|4|
7^Gallowglass|340|60|8|6|1||2||2|AP
7^GhaziInfantry|298|60|6|6|-3|$1|1|$1|10|AP
7^Halbardiers|510|60|2|2|7||5||2|AP
7^HighlandClansman|170|60|6|6|-2|$1|1|$1|2|
7^HospitallerFootKnights|680|40|3|6|6||6||10|
7^Housecarle|298|60|3|4|1|$2|2|$2|6|AP
7^ItalianLightInfantry|680|100|5|1|4|$2|3|$2|4|
7^JanissaryHeavyInfantry|1233|60|4|6|4||3|$2|10|AP
7^MilitiaSergeants|255|60|4|3|4||3||2|AP
7^MurabitinInfantry|202|60|2|2|-1|$2|1|$2|6|
7^MuslimPeasants|85|100|4|-1|-3||1||0|
7^MuwahidFoot|383|60|7|2|0|$2|1|$2|6|
7^NegroSpearmen|298|100|4|1|0|$1|1|$1|4|
7^OrderFootsoldiers|680|100|5|1|4|$2|3|$2|4|
7^Peasants|85|100|4|-1|-3||1||0|
7^ReligiousFanatics|213|100|6|4|-3||1||10|
7^RoundShieldSpearmen|255|100|5|0|0|$2|1|$2|2|
7^SaracenInfantry|510|100|5|0|4|$2|3|$2|2|
7^SlavWarriors|170|100|5|1|-1|$2|1|$2|2|
7^Spearmen|255|100|5|0|0|$2|1|$2|2|
7^SwissHalbardiers|638|60|2|4|4||2||8|AP
7^UrbanMilitia|170|60|4|3|0||1||2|AP
7^VarangianGuard|850|60|4|5|6||4|$1|8|AP
7^Woodsman|128|60|8|2|0||2||0|AP
Missile-Infantry stats @ valour 1:
3^Name|Cost|Men|Cha|Att|Def|$|Arm|$|Mor|AP
7^Almughavars|669|60|6|4|1||2||10|
7^Arbalester|324|60|1|0|3||3||2|
7^Archers|260|60|1|0|-1||1||1|
7^Arquebusier|214|60|1|0|4||4||2|
7^BulgarianBrigands|370|60|1|3|1||2||2|
7^Crossbows|246|60|1|0|3||3||2|
7^DesertArchers|285|60|1|0|-1|$1|1|$1|2|
7^Futuwwa|370|60|3|5|-1|$2|1|$2|6|
7^GenoeseSailors|328|60|1|1|-1||1||4|
7^GoldenHordeWarriors|370|60|2|4|1|$2|2|$2|4|
7^HandGun|291|60|1|2|4||4||6|
7^Hashishin|791|12|2|7|6||2||14|
7^JanissaryBows|328|60|1|2|1||2||6|
7^JanissaryInfantry|459|60|1|5|3||3||6|
7^Jobbagy|199|60|4|0|1||2||2|
7^Kern|159|60|3|3|-2||1||2|
7^Longbows|424|60|1|4|-1|$1|1|$1|6|AP
7^MamlukHandgun|135|60|1|1|-1||1||4|
7^NapthaThrowers|235|12|1|1|3||3||4|
7^Nizari|546|60|7|7|-3|$2|1|$2|10|
7^PaviseArbalester|367|60|1|0|3|$3|3|$3|2|
7^PaviseCrossbows|288|60|1|0|3|$3|3|$3|2|
7^SherwoodForesters|760|12|4|7|6||2||14|
7^SlavJavelinmen|160|60|1|1|-1|$1|1|$1|2|
7^SpanishJavelinmen|160|60|1|1|-1||1||4|
7^TrebizondArchers|328|60|1|4|-1|$1|1|$1|4|
7^TurcomanFoot|370|60|1|0|3|$1|3|$1|1|
Projectile Info by Tomi:
3^Projectile|Range|Ammo
7^Longbow| 120 meters| 28 Arrows
7^Archers|100 meters| 28 Arrows
7^Xbows| 100 meters| 28 Bolts
7^Javelins| 30 meters| 4 Javlin
7^Grenade| 26 meters| 10 Grenades
7^HandGun| ? meters| 10 Shot
R'as al Ghul
03-07-2007, 12:18
Cavalry stats @ valour 1:
3^Name/Identifier|Cost|men|Cha|Att|Def|$|Arm|$|Mor|AP
7^AlanMercenaryCavalry|340|40|6|4|2||3||6|
7^ArmenianHeavyCavalry|510|40|8|4|4|$1|4|$1|6|
7^BedouinCamelWarriors|213|40|6|3|1|$1|2|$1|2|
7^ByzantineLancers|425|40|6|4|3|$1|3|$1|6|
7^ChivalricKnights|1148|40|8|6|6|$0,5|7|$0,5|10|
7^DruzhinaCavalry|553|60|4|2|3|$1|3|$1|4|AP
7^FeudalKnights|723|40|8|5|4|$1|4|$1|10|
7^GhulamCavalry|468|40|6|4|4|$1|4|$1|6|
7^GoldenHordeHeavyCavalry|893|40|6|4|7|$1|7|$1|8|
7^HighRoyalGhulamKnights|595|20|8|4|6|$1|5|$1|8|
7^HighRoyalKnights|893|20|8|6|6|$0,5|7|$0,5|10|
7^Hobilar|213|40|6|2|3||3||2|
7^Kataphraktoi|638|40|8|4|6||7||6|
7^KhazarRoyalCavalry|680|40|6|4|5|$1|5|$1|8|
7^KhwarazmianCavalry|638|40|6|4|6||7||6|
7^KnightsHospitaller|1148|40|8|6|6|$0,5|7|$0,5|10|
7^KnightsSantiago|1148|40|8|6|6|$0,5|7|$0,5|10|
7^KnightsTemplar|1020|40|4|6|6|$0,5|7|$0,5|10|
7^Lancers|1445|40|8|6|8||9||10|
7^LithuanianCavalry|383|40|6|3|4|$1|4|$1|4|
7^MamlukCavalry|468|40|4|3|4|$1|4|$1|6|AP
7^MountedSergeants|298|40|8|3|3|$1|3|$1|4|
7^PolishRetainer|510|40|8|4|4|$1|4|$1|6|
7^PronoiaiAllagion|723|40|6|5|4|$1|5|$1|10|
7^SaharanCavalry|213|40|4|3|1|$1|2|$1|2|
7^SteppeCavalry|255|40|6|3|2|$1|3|$1|2|
7^TeutonicKnights|1148|40|8|6|6|$0,5|7|$0,5|10|
7^TeutonicSergeants|638|40|4|4|6|$0,5|6|$0,5|6|
Missile-Cavalry stats @ valour 1:
3^Name/Identifier|Cost|men|Cha|Att|Def|$|Arm|$|Mor|AP
7^BerberCamel|371|40|2|1|1|$1|2|$1|2|
7^Boyar|810|40|4|4|6|$1|5|$1|8|
7^ByzantineCavalry|547|40|2|4|4||4||6|
7^Faris|503|40|4|4|2|$1|3|$1|6|
7^GoldenHordeHorseArchers|503|40|2|4|2||3||6|
7^HorseArchers|320|40|2|0|1||2||1|
7^MamlukHorseArchers|499|40|2|4|2|$1|3|$1|6|
7^MountedCrossbows|400|40|2|1|3||3||4|
7^SpanishJinetes|360|40|2|3|3|$1|3|$1|4|
7^SteppeHeavyCavalry|635|40|2|4|5|$1|5|$1|6|
7^Szekely|638|40|4|4|2|$1|3|$1|6|
7^TurcomanHorse|371|40|2|2|1|$1|2|$1|1|
7^Turcopole|371|40|2|0|2|$1|3|$1|2|
Cavalry-unit speeds by Tomi:
Fast - March 9 - Run 24 - Charge 26
AlanMercenaryCavalry
GoldenHordeHorseArchers
HorseArchers
MountedCrossbows
SaharanCavalry
SpanishJinetes
SteppeCavalry
Szekely
TurcomanHorse
Turcopole
Slow - March 9 - Run 12 - Charge 16
Kataphraktoi
GothicKnights
BerberCamel
BedouinCamelWarriors
Normal - March 9 - Run 20 - Charge 22
(all of the rest)
R'as al Ghul
03-07-2007, 12:53
This should be okay now. I had some mistakes at first but now it seems to be fine.
Please report any errors, wishes, critique.
:bow:
R'as
Edit: I'll post an excel sheet later.
Very good effort, I have to point out though, after a very quick view of it, that it is not correct on at least some things. Morale seems to have some values very wrong and morale is crucial at this florinlevel. Morale of val 1 kataphraktoi and val 1 kwarazmian cavalry is not 9 for instance (I think it is 6 for both of them) and feudal knights is not 6 it is 10. For those not having played the game for as many years as some others it is even more important to show the correct info since they might not notice the mistakes.
Also it do not show anticav values for anticav infantry I think?
If you want to make the list perfect there are also some units not available in the high era and/or in multiplayer but this is of less concern I think.
Anyways good work.
regards
/Kalle
Dont bother with my comments, you made it correct while i was writing the post i think :)
R'as al Ghul
03-07-2007, 12:59
You posted while I edited.
Please check again.
AntiCav? Ok. I'll put that in later.
I took the eras from the unit_prod. If you know which units aren't available please tell me.
R'as
Tomisama
03-07-2007, 13:19
Excellent R’as :grin:
Now my minor contribution.
Cavalry Speeds
Fast - March 9 - Run 24 - Charge 26
AlanMercenaryCavalry
GoldenHordeHorseArchers
HorseArchers
MountedCrossbows
SaharanCavalry
SpanishJinetes
SteppeCavalry
Szekely
TurcomanHorse
Turcopole
Slow - March 9 - Run 12 - Charge 16
Kataphraktoi
GothicKnights
BerberCamel
BedouinCamelWarriors
Normal - March 9 - Run 20 - Charge 22
(all of the rest)
Edit: These were taken from Yas Unit Master, I hope they are correct.
Does anyone have the range specs handy?
And maybe a fatigue study for VI?
I think that would polish this off nicely if available :wink:
R'as al Ghul
03-07-2007, 13:23
Excellent R’as :grin:
Just imagine, I'm getting paid for this. ~:thumb:
AntiCav stats are in now.
Nice work R'as.
Columns for run speed and armor pierce capability?
Does anyone have the range specs handy?
Longbow 120 meters
Archers 100 meters
Xbows 100 meters
Javelins 30 meters
Grenade 26 meters
R'as al Ghul
03-07-2007, 14:05
Columns for run speed and armor pierce capability?
I've added an AP column.
Run speed in numbers or fast, medium, slow?
AggonyDuck
03-07-2007, 16:47
All of those stats lack the shield values both in armour/defense. ~;)
R'as al Ghul
03-07-2007, 17:09
Acknowledged, Sir, Ducky, Sir! :wink:
Stand by. (first thing tomorrow)
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-07-2007, 18:28
switzerland
Hey,
NO, IT SWISSLAND!!
See, My SwissPikemen came from switerzland in 2004, but then we settle in SwissLand a month later I started on VI, so We lived in SwissLand:yes: :yes:
Ras, how long it take you to make these excel sheets??
Tomisama
03-08-2007, 01:33
Took it a little farther.
Longbow 120 meters 28 Arrows
Archers 100 meters 28 Arrows
Xbows 100 meters 28 Bolts
Javelins 30 meters 4 Javlin
Grenade 26 meters 10 Grenades
HandGun __meters 10 Shot
:book:
R'as al Ghul
03-08-2007, 13:51
Okay, I've added the shield values, projectile ranges, cav speeds.
Anything else?
Ras, how long it take you to make these excel sheets??
Don't know, mate. I do this at work and cannot keep constantly at it. I've other stuff to do, too. In a period of 4 hours I maybe spent 90 mins at a time on this yesterday and today.
Hail R'as, thanks for the info, but seeing as you have done it at work, i feel the 90 mins u spent on it shud be deducted from your wages and paid into the Totalwar community, or better still into Aggony's Treasure chest :thumbsup:
:turkey: :england:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-08-2007, 18:59
Hey,
no Judgee, it should be deposited in the SwissLand Castle Valut.. My Castle and Swissland Pikes of Armourland need money to :D :)
Warman have u been in touch with ur fellow ronins to se when we can play the match :knight: :horn: :turkey: :england:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-08-2007, 22:17
Hey,
Yes, Matter of Fact, I was waiting for the You and your fellow Aggony warriors :D
But Not on Sunday Though, Sunday is my 15h birthday :D
Run speed in numbers or fast, medium, slow?
I'd use the numbers.
You don't have to show the shield value twice. It's redundant.
AggonyDuck
03-08-2007, 23:29
You don't have to show the shield value twice. It's redundant.
Not completely redundant though. There are some units like the Varangians and JHI who do not use their shields for melee. But yes, it is mostly redundant.
{KotR}Sir_Raison{P}
03-10-2007, 21:38
****IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM RAISON****
OK...I am still looking for one more player in our team:wall: . If anyone knows anyone trying to get on a team let me know ASAP at littleuniverse@ntlworld.com
Otherwise it seems we will not be able to field a team which is a bugger to put it mildly..
Cheers
Rais
Gawain of Orkeny
03-11-2007, 05:15
****IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM RAISON****
OK...I am still looking for one more player in our team . If anyone knows anyone trying to get on a team let me know ASAP at littleuniverse@ntlworld.com
Otherwise it seems we will not be able to field a team which is a bugger to put it mildly..
Well....................You could always join Aggony :laugh4:
just visit our castle mate:thumbsup: :turkey: :england:
Hunter KIng George
03-12-2007, 00:43
Rais..Did you ask Max the levellier?
He did say he would be willing to participate in the tournament m8...
****IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM RAISON****
OK...I am still looking for one more player in our team:wall: . If anyone knows anyone trying to get on a team let me know ASAP at littleuniverse@ntlworld.com
Otherwise it seems we will not be able to field a team which is a bugger to put it mildly..
Cheers
Rais
I'll join your team Rais, if you can't find anyone else. This is Faust by the way, remember :beam: ? My controls are kind of messed up (I'm not afraid to say), but in most situations I will be at 100% effectiveness. But you might want to find someone who can be 100% effective all the time. If you have no luck though just let me know.
***Actually, I've thought better of it. It might be tough with my schedule. I may only have 1 day per week that I could guarantee participation. So thats a NEGATIVE for me.
Sorry about this.***
Tomisama
03-14-2007, 00:50
We need one more Team to round out this competition.
Several Sign Ups have obviously mistaken the Valour One for a M2TW contest, and that has left us in a hole (my fault).
Two peps from a Clan and two Mercs (members from other Clans) or Ronin.
Even any mix of Ronin or Mercs, or all Mercs or all Ronin, banned together for this competition.
The commitment is for two battles (every three weeks) playing all other contending Teams one time.
We need a Team leader to Sign Up, or individules who are looking to be on a Team, and we can grow a Team on the spot.
But please, we need to hear from you right now :charge:
http://p219.ezboard.com/fclanwars3540frm81.showMessage?topicID=1.topic
Thanks in advance!
:2thumbsup:
Several Sign Ups have obviously mistaken the Valour One for a M2TW contest, and that has left us in a hole (my fault).
Why don't you consider changing it to a regular mtw/vi 10k contest? Apparently, that's what the players want.
AggonyLion
03-14-2007, 18:01
na 10k would be no fun :laugh4:
Then make it 15k or whatever it is that you people play.
we play 10k and 11k all the time , thats why this 7k wud be fun 1v:charge: :turkey:
Tomisama
03-15-2007, 12:29
The lower the florin, the higher the generalship skills requirment :yes:
We have cooked up a workaround on the above missing team problem. Having 1 team play 2 other teams in a round. And in the next round, another team has 2 opponents.
Every team has to play every other team anyway. And it doesn't matter when that happens, just so that it gets done :grin:
Monday is the closing day for this round. Please do your best to finish up this weekend, as this contest does not stop. Any matches still outstanding will continue on top of the new battle assignment of the next round.
:bow:
I do not understand how you connect this;
Originally Posted by Tomisama
Several Sign Ups have obviously mistaken the Valour One for a M2TW contest, and that has left us in a hole (my fault).
with this;
Why don't you consider changing it to a regular mtw/vi 10k contest? Apparently, that's what the players want
I do not understand how to connect the two. If you think it would take away the hole that Tomi speak of I think you are wrong since most (or even all) of the clans that have at least some presence still in VI has entered the competition.
/Kalle
I do not understand how to connect the two. If you think it would take away the hole that Tomi speak of I think you are wrong since most (or even all) of the clans that have at least some presence still in VI has entered the competition.
I missread it. I thought it said MTW and the valor 1 was the problem.
{WK}Dream_Killer^
03-17-2007, 03:34
hello all today we had some might great games with the Hunter clan and we went 1-1. we hope to see them in the finals and u guys well meet up soon.
sign: {WK}Dream^
|Heerbann|_Luculus
03-19-2007, 05:11
Heerbann vs RTK
We fought our first match in this tournament. We were supported from
ELITEofBLIZZARD as a ronin to fill our 4th spot. He did well. We are glad to have him on our side.
The battles were hard, fast and interesting. Both battles were on the knife's edge, the 2nd one was even almost lost but we were lucky to turn it around.
Facing a prepared team with strong members like in tournaments like this, are always having a special charakter for me.
RTKs and Eresh are skilled and experienced opponents. We were lucky to gain 2 victories. It was a pleasure for us to meet on them.
I also want to mention them as very honourable players.
Strength and Honour
|Heerbann|_Luculus
{KotR}Sir_Raison{P}
03-19-2007, 12:14
Well done to all that played so far.Good to see this get off the ground and inject some life back into the game.For those that wanted to join my team,thanks for your support.I have found DeviantKnight as a current replacement for Scurvy (Mate, if your about drop me a line at littleuniverse@ntlworld.com Your e-mail doesn't work!!)
Our 1st match looks set for Saturday 24th Feb against the Mizu's.
Wish us luck..we'll probably need it!! :surrender:
Rais :england: :thrasher: :england:
Our 1st match looks set for Saturday 24th Feb against the Mizu's.
I'll try to assemble my team for Saturday, 24 March, at 19:00 GMT. Since we don't play mtw/vi, you won't see us there without a specifically arranged time.
AggonyLion
03-19-2007, 20:17
Rais :england: :thrasher: :england:
haha i had "cold as Ice" on as i saw your post it Rocks:thrasher:
Rais ur team are highly skilled warriors, just a shame ur clans are inactive, so u pull together a good squad of Ronins,
all the best in ur matches mate, may Allah be with you :sultan:
:turkey: :england:
Grey_Fox
03-22-2007, 20:10
Clan's not inactive, just playing w0w too much. Many of us are burned out on TW. Even I can't play more than a few hours a month.
And I ought to be there barring death, injury or serious girlfriend troubles.
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
03-22-2007, 22:23
Why you think I quit? This community is the most disgracefull I ever seen, plus I'n to burn out.BF2 pwnts TW anyday.
Lmao, dont like it just go away then. :clown: Heres a balloon for you :balloon2:
Kalle
and here is to celebrate ~:cheers: ~:wave: :turkey: :england:
|Heerbann|_Luculus
05-07-2007, 18:12
Hehe Judgee, I am happy we will meet again in a final round of a tournament, also in this one.
:duel:
As You know Heerbann has got his old strength back and moreover we have a new very dangerous general in our team. So You'd better get the heaviest armors when You move to the fields^^
:viking:
But You also know friends will be friends whatever will be the result of that match.
:shakehands:
So let's rock
:thrasher:
and lets drink some ales after it^^
:medievalcheers:
Best regards
:germany: |Heerbann|_Luculus :germany:
Of course friends will be friends Luc~:wave:
yes ur new general, i am weary of this new one:horn:
but will still make it fun and my heart will beat even faster when the horn blows for battle :horn:
:england: :turkey:
AggonyDuck
05-08-2007, 20:58
I see through your trickery! Suggesting us to wear the heaviest armour possible would only slow us down and stop us from outmaneuvering you and actually allow you to catch us. :inquisitive:
Who is this "new" general??
Egil please lend me your sharpened axe for the upcoming battle, there are new heads to be chopped it appears!! :viking: :viking: :viking:
Kalle
Heerbann_Crusader, he speaks german, so ur guess as good as mine, and Luc wudnt have let him in easy, so he must be a VET:knight:
:turkey: :england:
A former Elite perhaps?
Beep beep
Kalle
Or is it mk Crusader??
Gawain of Orkeny
05-13-2007, 23:31
Do I hear the war drums beating once again in VI? :2thumbsup:
It seems there are still epic battles to be fought here. Oh that such players and clans dominated MTW2. Were taking up a collection to bring Ducky there :laugh4:
shogun888
05-16-2007, 18:53
how s the comp going?
what time u guys meet in VI?
and gaw how comes u got 12k posts?
(ur old m8 marco)
Gawain of Orkeny
05-16-2007, 21:03
Hi Marco old m8. Great to see you . I have 12k in posts because Im a blabber mouth :help: I really used to get into the political debates in the tavern if you must know :laugh4: You should see the wars me and Kafir have there. Its worse than he and Elrich.:beam:
Your in the UK so I guess peeps start playing around 5 or 6 ish there maybe a little later. You can find peeps on VI almost everday now.
shogun888
05-17-2007, 08:13
just a bit early for me, maybe try at weekends
Gawain of Orkeny
05-21-2007, 03:24
Final results Aggony beats Heerbans 2-1 for title. Congrats to my clannies who played.
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