Poverty is a Quaint Lifestyle - Don't Give the Poor Good Jobs

[Crazed Rabbit]

Or, so sayeth the environmentalist movement, which is so against growth and economic expansion - regardless of environmental impact - that it fights against any and all economic development projects in the poorest parts of the world, even in instances where the companies would significantly clean up and improve the area.

It seems Greenpeace and other NGOs are so stuck on their dogma that economic expansion is bad, they will screw over the poor and desperate who need these economic opportunities.

An article on a new documentary on the subject:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252279,00.html

A youtube movie trailer of sorts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wth_p4p0rfY

A Fox News debate between movie director and Greenpeace hack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us0yOg5uS5Q

Unsurprisingly, the greenpeace guy can't stop saying 'propaganda'.

CR

[Fisherking]

Environmental responsibility is a good thing. It is always a good idea to keep an eye on those companies and yes governments that would despoil the environment and leave behind a polluted mess. Mining in most any form is one of the worst offenders of this type of behaviour and special care needs to be taken when evaluating mining damage.

With that said, many of the environmentalists themselves and the broader umbrella organizations they are part of see human beings as the fundamental evil that destroys the pristine mother The Earth.

No matter what is proposed they will find a problem with it, even if you propose to dig a hole and pull the dirt in on top of yourself it is environmentally damaging in their eyes.

You are not going to stop this sort of fuzzy thinking by logic however, it is more a tactic and if they were to agree to anything some of their contributors would scream and say they were selling out. This is how those at the top of these organizations get money and pay themselves. You can't expect them to give that up just because they may be keeping some obscure village one valley over from hell from starving to death, now can you. Since when are they responsible for peoples or how they are affected, it is about how they feel about the issue and how they feel about the earth.

If you actually believe that people are more important than the plants and animals that may be harmed then you're just an evil speciesist and you either need to be stopped or eliminated.

You don't want Greenpeace to give your name to Earth First now do you?

[Scurvy]

I basically agree with what is said above, although i care a bit about the enviroment, there are far more important issues around, it annoys be how politicians (and the media) are so enthusiastic about the enviroment because its easy votes, and how groups (which do some useful things) value the enviroment over people.

:2thumbsup:

[Tribesman]

Interesting piece , however from the fox news article......

In another example, NGOs stopped what would have been the largest-ever sustainable forestry project in Tierra del Fuego, Chile. The Washington state-based timber company Trillium Corporation purchased 800,000 acres in Chile and Argentina in 1993. Although Trillium could have clear-cut the forest at the time, it instead tried to work with NGOs to develop its sustainable forestry project of which it was rightfully proud.

The NGOs spent the next nine years blocking the project. One of Trillium’s key lenders fell into financial difficulty and had to auction the loans that were secured by Trillium’s land, allowing Goldman Sachs to swoop in and buy the notes, foreclose Trillium’s mortgage and then donate the land to the Wildlife Conservation Society – a controversial use of shareholder assets that has been criticized by myself and others.

Needless to say, the Tierra del Fuego land won’t be developed, Chileans won’t be employed and the world was deprived of a much needed example of the ever-elusive “sustainable development.”


That doesn't deal with the issues of that case at all , it wasn't just NGOs , The Chilean government claim Trillium illegaly took state land and are claiming compensation for it , the government official who gave initial approval for the project faced action for going against his own departments recommendations and ignoring its own reports on the proposed development and the impact . Trillium itself has been in severe finacial difficulty for some time , is dumping assets , taking loans at exorbitant rates and facing a damn big pile of lawsuits from companies it did business with .
The main issue in that particular case , apart from the legality of it was that the governments own reports decided that the land wasn't suitable for clear cut and reforestation as proposed by Trillium due to the fragile ecosystem .

Oh and that Romanian mining town , wasn't the main issue there the new companies refusal to to contribute to the fund for the neccesary clean up of the existing problems which has to be dealt with in conjunction with any new developments .

But that aside .
Yes some environmentalists are hypocritical pains in the ass and some NGOs are too far up their own posteriors to be able to see or say anything but excrement .

[Marshal Murat]

While I'd love to save the earth, it's like a car.

You either use it, restore broken parts, clean it, polish it, and love it.
Or you let it sit in the garage, because it's to 'pristine' to be used. To 'exquisite' and 'special' to be used.

If the same analogy be placed on Earth (yes, make the jump), then if we try to at least help reverse our actions, then all is good and fine. Your not going to make it so that anything that could possibly influence the Earth be stopped.

Making sure our environment is clean, that's good.
Making our environment clean while providing people with the comforts of life, that's better.

[ShadeHonestus]

The earth will be incinerated by the sun anywhere from 3-4 Billion years from now and there are thousands of ways life on earth can end before then, by inorganic means. Until the great conflaguration, I'll be looking for any improvements in way of life for all mankind, preferably green, but if not... /shrug. If I could feed a homeless family of 5 for the next generation by hunting condors and chopping down redwoods..well, give me a rifle and a chainsaw.

[Fisherking]

A couple of decent books on the topic are Collapse and 1491.
1491 is dealing with a separate issue for the most part but has some strong environmental lessons if you are paying attention. It attempts to show how all of the Western Hemisphere was scalped by man as a sustainable resource and it is not a bad idea to try to take those lessons and put them back into practical use.

Timber, oil, and mining are usually seen as the worst industries for the environment but timber and oil can be done in a much more environmentally friendly manor in a sustainable fashion. There is no reason to excuse any company from the requirements to do so.

Mining is more complicated and it depends a lot on what is being mined. Still there is no reason to let anyone off easy in what they are mining, it is just some types of mining take very, very complex controls.

The Environmental movement is closing there eyes to what may be able to be done and would be most happy if they were the only ones left on earth…but with their ideas in place I am sure that they would soon die off. They may even see that as the ultimate goal since they think we are a parasitic infection any way.

I am not saying they the Environmental movement hasn't done us good in the past. Radicals always propose new ideas and ways of looking at things, it doesn't mean that they are all workable or should be implemented, just looked at and examined for what could be useable.

The main problem for the rest of us is that what happens in South America or any place else ultimately effects us all. Allowing under developed locations to make the same mistakes is not satisfactory to our own survival. Excusing China, Australia, Madagascar, Indonesia, or anyone is just moving us as a spices nearer to the brink. Economic levelling, similar to what was proposed at Kyoto aren't workable and selling pollution values to me is like selling redemption of sin by the Vatican…meaningless.