View Full Version : Pezhetairoi for Baktria?
Megas Pyrrhos
02-19-2007, 03:10
Great v.81 so far EB!
However, I've encountered something disturbing when i started my campaign as Baktria. I used the cheats on Baktra to build up everything so i could see if there were any changes made to the unit roster, and i noticed that i cannot recruit the pezhetairoi, but i can recruit the levy phalangites....and was wondering if Baktria was supposed to have macedonian-style phalanx units or if they somehow got left out for the latest patch...
Tellos Athenaios
02-19-2007, 23:13
Which is entirely logical given the fact you can't have Apoika there either. But you should, if I'm not mistaken, have access to Pezhetairoi elsewhere - in more hellenized provinces.
Megas Pyrrhos
02-20-2007, 05:16
i guess, but way out there in baktria, if a place is gonna be hellenized, its gonna be the baktrian province...oh and u can recruit the mercenary pezhetairoi out there too, which doesnt make since to me since u cant recruit pezhetairoi...i personally dont have a problem with not having them way out there, since it makes me use other troop types as my main component in armies, just saying there are still some inconsistences in baktrian provinces
i guess, but way out there in baktria, if a place is gonna be hellenized, its gonna be the baktrian province...oh and u can recruit the mercenary pezhetairoi out there too, which doesnt make since to me since u cant recruit pezhetairoi...i personally dont have a problem with not having them way out there, since it makes me use other troop types as my main component in armies, just saying there are still some inconsistences in baktrian provinces
Why is the ability to recruit mercenary pezhetairoi only make sense if you can recruit pezhetairoi as well. I imagine that mercenary companies move about a bit when looking for work, and if Baktria can't recruit such a heavy phalangitai unit then you can bet they would pay good money to.
Foot
Megas Pyrrhos
02-20-2007, 17:00
makes sense to me because after the baktrian government would get tired of the mercenaries, some of the mercenaries might decide to stay in the area and settle, thus creating a base for the baktrian government to recruit future generations created by the settled mercenaries....what im trying to say is that it makes sense for them to not be able to recruit pezhetairoi early on, but a few years down the road it would be feasable for them to, due to possible mercenaries settling down and maybe having the status and property to field their sons as pezhetairoi...just a thought, i dont have much knowledge of how the actual real-life baktrian government worked, but it would make sense.
....what im trying to say is that it makes sense for them to not be able to recruit pezhetairoi early on, but a few years down the road it would be feasable for them to, due to possible mercenaries settling down and maybe having the status and property to field their sons as pezhetairoi...just a thought, i dont have much knowledge of how the actual real-life baktrian government worked, but it would make sense.
We can't recreate every possible what-if situation in EB. Native Pez weren't recruitable in Baktria at the start of our period (or ever, for that matter). So that's what you see in game.
Megas Pyrrhos
02-21-2007, 17:21
makes sense to me
Kongeslask
02-22-2007, 00:23
We can't recreate every possible what-if situation in EB. Native Pez weren't recruitable in Baktria at the start of our period (or ever, for that matter). So that's what you see in game.
"Native" could be interpreted to mean "the local non-hellenic population", but I assume you mean "hellenic" phalanxes rather than Pantopadoi. Could you please explain the reasoning for giving the bactrians acccess (I used cheat to create faction MIC level 5 in Baktra) to the psiloi types, the peltast derivatives (peltastai, thureophoroi and thorakitai) and prodromoi, but NO other standard hellenic units? It seems to me a bit odd that Baktria, where the hellenes were a minority ruling class, would contain enough poorer hellenes to have some fight as psiloi, and others in elite cavalry and infantry formations, yet have absolutely none that fought as hoplites or phalangites. It is even stranger that they would raise phalanxes made up of non-hellenes in such circumstances.
I would also like to note that Pheraspidai and Baktrion Agema seem to fill a similar tactical niche, and if there really is evidence of the former type fighting for the bactrians, it should be noted in the description.
Using the cheat to build everything in the first turn I am able to recruit Pezhetairoi. Do you think something failed to install correctly?
Using the cheat to build everything in the first turn I am able to recruit Pezhetairoi. Do you think something failed to install correctly?
Where could you build them? From my list, it looks like they are only available in a few west-central Seleukid provinces, a couple in Egypt, and two more in Thrace. Baktria *can* recruit them, but only in those places.
Where could you build them? From my list, it looks like they are only available in a few west-central Seleukid provinces, a couple in Egypt, and two more in Thrace. Baktria *can* recruit them, but only in those places.
Thrace? thats a long way from baktria :laugh4:
Where could you build them? From my list, it looks like they are only available in a few west-central Seleukid provinces, a couple in Egypt, and two more in Thrace. Baktria *can* recruit them, but only in those places.
I can recruit them in Baktra.
What exactly is wrong with Baktria being able to recruit them? As a breakaway satrap of Seleukeia wouldn't they have the knowhow to recruit them, let alone the precedent of prestigious or lucky locals being recruited in the Seleukid Pezhetairoi? In my mind, it seems only logical that they would be available to a Hellenistic faction like Baktria.
I can recruit them in Baktra.
What exactly is wrong with Baktria being able to recruit them? As a breakaway satrap of Seleukeia wouldn't they have the knowhow to recruit them, let alone the precedent of prestigious or lucky locals being recruited in the Seleukid Pezhetairoi? In my mind, it seems only logical that they would be available to a Hellenistic faction like Baktria.
That should be impossible. The worksheet which drives recruitment specifically excludes Baktria from being able to recruit that unit. Maybe the cheat function just overrides everything in favor of EDU ownership.
Actually, that would make sense because I can recruit cataphracts as well...
Megas Pyrrhos
02-22-2007, 06:16
ummm yea....i used cheats the first turn on baktra, and i couldnt recruit them...well it doesnt really matter now in my current campaign, im knocking at babylon's doorstep now and will probably be able to recruit pezhetairoi there :)
pezhetairoi
02-22-2007, 14:50
well, yes, I can recruit both myself, and hellenikoi kataphraktoi in Baktra. Confirmed for my campaign, too.
Megas Pyrrhos
02-22-2007, 16:53
Apparently, I need better cheats :). I can recruit the kataphractoi in baktria, but the nearest place i can recruit the pezhetairoi is in Seleukeia :no:
Watchman
02-22-2007, 21:34
I've seen it argued the Kataphraktoi were chiefly recruited from the indigenous Iranian aristocracy (ie. the same guys who make up the likes of Mada Asabara and Baktrioi Hippeis), so assuming the EB team is going by that their recruitement zones failing to overlap with at least some of the more distinctly Hellenic units is only to be expected.
An update for the team: in my AS campaign, Baktria is recruiting Pezhetairoi from Baktra. If you guys want me to upload my save game for examination, just let me know.
An update for the team: in my AS campaign, Baktria is recruiting Pezhetairoi from Baktra. If you guys want me to upload my save game for examination, just let me know.
I can tell you right now. Unless somebody is playing with a specially modified game of EB, it is IMPOSSIBLE to recruit Pezhetairoi in Baktria. Period. In order to recruit these units in Baktria, you would have to have this code in EDB:
recruit "hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi" 0 requires factions { romans_brutii, } and hidden_resource EA and hidden_resource D and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
Good luck finding it, because it doesn't exist.
Somebody else said you could hire Pezhetairoi in Baktria as Mercs. That too is impossible. Here is the DESCR_MERCENARIES.TXT code for Baktria:
pool Baktria
regions Baktria
unit steppe missile cavalry bydirag baexdzhyntae, exp 0 cost 3120 replenish 0.05 - 0.1 max 1 initial 0
unit eastern missile eransahr arshtbara merc, exp 0 cost 1082 replenish 0.15 - 0.25 max 3 initial 1
unit hellenistic infantry misthophoroi phalangitai, exp 0 cost 3511 replenish 0.14 - 0.2 max 2 initial 1
unit steppe skirmisher cavalry daha rog baexdzhyn aefsad, exp 0 cost 1506 replenish 0.1 - 0.16 max 2 initial 0
Do you see Pezhetairoi in there anywhere? No.
Do you guys have any idea how much of my time you are wasting with bogus reports like this? :furious3:
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
02-24-2007, 08:13
Out of curiousity of checked the files. Kull ain't lyin'. The unit coded as "hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi" cannot be recruited in Baktra. None of the entries have the matching or even close hidden_resources.
Perhaps you all have the 080 EDB?
To make sure, I'm going to follow this up with an in game test. No reason, I'm just that bored.
I doubt I have the EB 0.80 EDB because if I did I wouldn't have the Getai general or Hellenistic standard bearers.
If you don't believe me, then here are the screenshots: http://rapidshare.com/files/17999919/bakpez.zip.html
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
02-24-2007, 08:43
I just loaded up 081, completely unaltered (it generated a new map.rwm for that matter). I used "process_cq" and "add_population" to get Baktra and the other two starting cities to have the highest level of both MICs (L5 for both) and there were no Pezhetairoi.
Now, I trust that you honestly have them.
I see three possible things happening here. One: you have 080. (I accidentaly just flew through the installer and accidentally pushed next when it asked where to put it and I accidentally had 080 when I thought I had 081. But then again I'm stupid.) Since you jsut commented on having other 081 features, this doesn't seem the case.
Two: you forgot to delete the map.rwm when you first installed 081 and you have some map-recruitment conflicts.
Three, what version did you download? Full 081 or patch 081?
I renamed the old map.rwm to map.rwm1 and installed the 0.81 patch over 0.80.
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
02-24-2007, 08:51
I renamed the old map.rwm to map.rwm1 and installed the 0.81 patch over 0.80.
Well that blows both theory 2 and 3 out of the water. (3: I was wondering if there were file differences between patch and full installer)
It wasn't a 080 save game, was it?
I would suggest deleting all map.rwm's and testing it.
EDIT: This just hit me. Theory four: Do you have the first cohort mod?
It is an entirely new game (no 0.8 saves) and I do not have the first cohort mod.
What would happen if I deleted my map.rwm - would it be reconstructed by the engine?
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
02-24-2007, 09:48
It is an entirely new game (no 0.8 saves) and I do not have the first cohort mod.
What would happen if I deleted my map.rwm - would it be reconstructed by the engine?
Yes. If there is no map.rwm, the game will automatically make a new one when you start the game.
I think the map.rwm is your error. I think since you named it "map.rwm1" it had problems. If you had named it "map1.rwm" there would have been no problem. I'm not sure of this, but it's my last theory.
Just try deleting all of them (there may be different ones, since you renamed) in the "base" folder and seeing if that helps. If this works, you may want to start a new campaign, since the old map.rwm could cause additional problems in the future.
Krusader
02-24-2007, 13:33
Well, anywho had a talk with Urnamma and Pezhetairoi should be available from Baktria province, so this is a recruitment error.
Well, anywho had a talk with Urnamma and Pezhetairoi should be available from Baktria province, so this is a recruitment error.
That's fine, and it's something I can add to the hotfix. But the most worrisome problem is the number of people who are actually SEEING this recruitment already present in EB. It's completely impossible in a normal, properly established game, yet some people are seeing it.
Everything keeps coming back to this map.rwm issue.
Edit - moved comments on the importance of map.rwm to a new thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1440678#post1440678)
Somebody else said you could hire Pezhetairoi in Baktria as Mercs. That too is impossible. Here is the DESCR_MERCENARIES.TXT code for Baktria:
pool Baktria
regions Baktria
unit steppe missile cavalry bydirag baexdzhyntae, exp 0 cost 3120 replenish 0.05 - 0.1 max 1 initial 0
unit eastern missile eransahr arshtbara merc, exp 0 cost 1082 replenish 0.15 - 0.25 max 3 initial 1
unit hellenistic infantry misthophoroi phalangitai, exp 0 cost 3511 replenish 0.14 - 0.2 max 2 initial 1
unit steppe skirmisher cavalry daha rog baexdzhyn aefsad, exp 0 cost 1506 replenish 0.1 - 0.16 max 2 initial 0
Do you see Pezhetairoi in there anywhere? No.
unit hellenistic infantry misthophoroi phalangitai are mercenary pezhetairoi, arent they? :inquisitive:
unit hellenistic infantry misthophoroi phalangitai are mercenary pezhetairoi, arent they? :inquisitive:
Gah. My bad, you are correct! :sweatdrop:
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