View Full Version : Creative Assembly Medieval II Update 2 Feature List
Caesar Vastator
02-22-2007, 11:38
Here are the list of improvements fixes for the next patchhttp://p223.ezboard.com/Medieval-II-Update-2-Feature-List-/fshoguntotalwarfrm55.showMessage?topicID=16038.topic
R'as al Ghul
02-22-2007, 11:51
Thanks Caesar!
Here's the list:
Primary features for Update 2:
1) The Launcher
2) Fully implemented Hotseat mode
3) Cinematic Editor
4) Battle Editor (now fully functional)
Resolved Bugs/Issues:
AI
• Units do not clump together when told to complete a 180 degree turn.
• Janissary Musketeers now fire consistently.
• Enemy AI army formations in bridge battles now allow their own artillery to fire.
• Enemy cannons do not fire at unbreakable walls.
• Grouped archers out of ammo will attack enemy units in melee combat when ordered to do so.
• AI does not deploy outside of enemy gates.
• When defending an enemy settlement with multiple exits, taking your army out of the side/back door does not make it easier to defeat the enemy.
• Siege AI is not passive.
• Cavalry can now charge a spearman army.
• General's bodyguard unit now marches correctly outside castles.
• AI now effectively assaults 2nd tier of a Fortress.
• Sallying AI army now reacts properly to being assaulted from 2 sides
• Attacking Siege AI concentrates on taking the settlement rather than chasing down units outside the settlement.
• Generals are now more effective at chasing down routing units.
• Enemy AI reacts to being bombarded with Trebuchets while inside a settlement.
• Siege AI now more difficult to defeat if player places missile units outside the walls.
• AI controls it units more effectively in a Citadel
• AI artillery more decisive in its positioning
• Remaining AI army now advances to use siege equipment
• AI Cavalry can now flank a Spear Wall
• AI now responds to missiles when sieging settlements
• AI now crosses bridges to attack
• AI responds more quickly to gates that have been opened by Spies (while sieging).
• Units do not break formation when chasing routers
• Enemy AI effectively attacks when player's units in a settlement square
• Enemy AI now utilises spare rams
• Improved enemy AI response to stakes
• Shortened Siege attack timers
• Enemy AI will no-longer send out General's bodyguard on a suicide mission while defending
Diplomacy
• Improved responses to monetary offers
• Bribery attempts do not always fail after an unsuccessful first attempt
• Diplomatic 'Just Rejected' response no-longer to 'Not Interested' response to counter-offer, no matter how generous
• Aztecs now appear in the correct year (for diplomacy actions)
• Generals in a Crusade do not get inquisition
• Improved diplomacy mechanic - AI Factions now stick with alliances and/or attack 'more intelligently'
Crash
• Soft-locks in MP Lobby no-longer occur
• Host random hangs fixed
• Resolved issue with client CTD when host ends game that client is joining
• Auto-resolve Siege battle hangs fixed
• Siege tower catching fire no-longer causes random hangs
• Random hangs after loading Campaign save game
Pathfinding
• Battering Rams no-longer stuck in gates
• Ship movement area fixed
• Ram crew no-longer stuck between rams
• Northern European Castle terrain fixed to allow docking of towers
• Improved use of ladders
• Southern European Fortress wall fixed to allow docking of towers
• Improved the way units use Way-points
• Siege of Setenil slow-down tweaked
• Units no-longer become stuck on canyon walls on 'Canyon' map
• Units do not ascend/descend invisible ladders
• Units do not get stuck on Siege towers
• Cavalry pathfinding improved when sallying out from a Fortress
• Bridge battle pathfinding improved (units do not constantly reform)
• Citadel and Fortress paths fixed so that units can avoid assaulting inner walls
• Breach pathfinding tweaked
Combat
• Enemy spearmen do not charge with raised spears
• 2H axemen attack tweaked, inc. Attacking Cavalry
• Defending units can no-longer enter a siege tower as soon as it docks with the walls
Mechanics
• Mouse Cursor position now updates when scrolling with the arrow keys.
• Assassination exploit fixed.
• Mission "Reinforce Region" now functions correctly
• Attacking an enemy army from inside a sieged settlement no-longer causes the enemy to lose all built siege equipment
• Fixed two family members (brothers) with the exact same name
• Rudder event now triggers at the correct time
• When an enemy sallies and is defeated you no-longer have to wait for the timer to run out in-order to win.
• Assassin mechanics tweaked
• Mercenary recruitment tweaked
• Diplomatic Information scroll updates correctly.
• Online replays now match
• Slowdown fixed on Desert Sanctuary
• Metallic Resource now support Mines
• Cavalry charges do not fail when charging skirmishing/moving units or if a knight is out of position
• Units can now withdraw on the Eifel Mountains Battle Map
• Construction queue exploits fixed
• The carroccio standard can now fit through the gate on a sally out battle.
• Southern European > Fortress: routing Enemy AI now leaving the map
• Printing press event triggers at the correct time
• Ladder docking/undocking tweaked
• Faction standings tweaked
• Priests no-longer convert to heretics if travelling on a fleet
• Hotseat Game-mode added
• Upper limit added on how long units stay in loose formation for.
• Traits/VnV triggers tweaked
Camera
• Camera height does not drop under bridge in River Po Custom Battle map.
• Camera does not drop below water's surface in Palm Beach, Andalusia and Italian Wars map/scenarios.
• Camera does not show the underneath of a bridge when General is killed on the bridge
Controls
• Drag Deploy functionality tweaked
• RTS camera functionality tweaked
Graphics
• Princess character now greyed out upon death on Family tree
• Venice battlemap ambient building placement tweaked
• Fixed issue with trees disappearing when panning camera
• Added paths to doorways in Southern European Large City
• Added paths to doorways in Southern European City
• Fixed minor lighting issue in Southern European City
• Fixed misaligned platforms in Southern European Large Town
• Tweaked Crusade Army banner
• Fixed texture gaps and unwelded verts on Middle Eastern Huge City buildings.
• Fixed incorrect Tower Path in Mesoamerican City
• Fixed path through wall in Mesoamerican City Wall
• Fixed floating buildings above the battle map in Aztec Gold Scenario
• Fixed floating spikes in Mountain Redoubt scenario
• Added correct image for Paladin ancillary
• Fixed grey reinforcement area that states that 'This army cannot fight in night battles' even though the current battle is not a night battle.
• Added correct image for Aztec Rebel - Native Archer
• Added correct image for Aztec Spearmen
• Fixed floating torches in SE Citadel courtyard
• Garrison quarters no-longer change to Town Guard when in Construction queue
• Armoury building image in construction queue no-longer changes to an armoury
• Fixed issue with Trebuchets sometimes disappearing when zooming in close
• Fixed maps have the winter option but don’t have winter texture on the battle map
• Night attack selection tick and reinforcements do not disappear if user selects night attack option and then views enemy army details.
• Fixed officers not animating while riding
• Removed trees in the water in The Battle of Otumba.
Deployment
• Units can no-longer be deployed on inaccessible sections of wall
• Fixed deployment issues with Southern European Wooden Castle on either side of the main gate.
• Units no-longer deployable in buildings in Mesoamerican City
Collision
• Ballista collision improved
• Southern European Citadel gate collision improved
• Middle Eastern Gatehouse collision improved
• Issues with units getting pushed into areas that can't be deployed into.
Battle Editor/Cinematic Editor
• Numerous issues with both editors fixed and improved so that they can be released for public use.
UI
• Mission scroll hotkey added
• Financial Details hotkey functionality and tooltip added
• Reveal/Advance advice hotkey functionality added
• Battle Tutorial Dismiss advice functionality added
• Magnifying glass added to Disaster Strikes scroll
• Princess appears correctly on family tree
• Chat Window errors fixed
• Family Tragedy scroll triggered correctly
• Console text appearance tweaked
• Now possible to launch game from autorun launcher
• Fine Grain time control added (accessible by holding Shift and clicking + and - on battle UI)
Save/Load
• Loading saved game of the same turn no-longer allows user to keep both allies when they declare war
• Russian and Czech autosave fixed
Audio
• Movement_Embark speech now triggered correctly
• Allies breaking through gates of citadel now triggers correct speech
• Battle ending in draw when timer runs out now triggers correct speech
• Campaign Map interface sounds added
• End Turn sound now fades out nicely
• Win/Lose music is now representative of the Faction
• Enemy King killed speech now triggered
• Enemy Reinforcements arrive speech now triggered correctly
• Player Army Tired Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Player Army Half Gone Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Enemy Army Half Gone Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Player Under Attack Idle Battle Event Speech is now triggered.
• Player Winning Combat Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Player Losing Combat Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Leaves Fleet speech now triggered correctly.
• Player Tide Of Battle Up Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Player Tide Of Battle Down Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Muslim Enemy General Killed Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Christian Enemy General Killed Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• Allied General Captured Battle Event Speech now triggered correctly.
• The "spy infiltrated our settlement" audio/speech is now played when "Start battle" is pressed during cutscene
• Correct region music plays when loading a saved campaign game.
• Added sound trigger for planting archer stakes in ground.
• Clicked-on characters on the Campaign Map no-longer stack their audio response if clicked multiple times.
• In the Historical battles, Battle of Otumba and the Battle of Hastings the music speeds up when you attack
• Other minor audio tweaks also carried out.
Text
• Minor grammar/spelling errors fixed
I'm trying not to be negative but these are the only points concerning the shield bug, pike bug, 2H bug and the whole cavalry vs. Spearmen issue.
• Cavalry can now charge a spearman army.
• AI Cavalry can now flank a Spear Wall Combat
• Enemy spearmen do not charge with raised spears
• 2H axemen attack tweaked, inc. Attacking Cavalry
I'd hoped for more. Am I missing something?
R'as
The last one might be the 2h weapon bug, but i'm not sure.
I'll read the buglist thoroughly later.
I doubt that this thread will slip anywhere near the second page of the forums, but if it does, i'll give it a sticky :yes: Nice work!
It sounds a pretty beefy patch - the 2H bug is a big one for me; plus cavalry charge failing skirmishing/moving units is something that has frustrated me ever since RTW.
But I agree with R'as al Ghul - there's no mention of the shield bug here. That's the biggest bug with the game so far uncovered. Whassup?
Second biggest unanswered question: is it savegame compatible?
There's also no mention of a whole host of the bugs in the buglist :inquisitive:
Better than nothing though...
I know it caught them off guard, but still... without the shields fixed, the game just plain won't work as intended or advertised. It's the only major gameplay mechanic bug we CAN'T correct or adequately compensate for ourselves.
There are a bunch of nitpick fixes in there I wish had time go to fixing shields instead. Though to be fair, they probably had many of those done almost in time for 1.1 and before that bug was discovered.
So does this mean May/June before shields and pikes do what they should?
It seems so to me.
IMO, CA should at least come out and say that they know that the shield/pike bug exists but couldn't fit a fix into this update, or something of the kind.
Caesar Vastator
02-22-2007, 12:17
This seem a good patch for single player but it's a very bad patch for Multyplayer!! The combat engine is full of errors and they have fixed only the "2H bug"!! The shield bug (the biggest one for MP) its again here, so the MP clan that have left medieval2 for its bug, umbalances, Gamespy , will not return to multy.:furious3: :furious3:
Follow your own link. A CA dev says it's only 99% complete ATM, so that could be the last thing on the list as it where (i.e. it's whats taking the longest). I'm sure when lusted shows up he'll be able to confirm that they've fixed it.
Or if they havn't give a damm good reason why.
grinningman
02-22-2007, 12:31
- Cavalry charges do not fail when charging skirmishing/moving units or if a knight is out of position
It sounds like it will be easier to get consistent cavalry charges.
Palamedes mentioned in the blog about the first update that cavalry charges would be less powerful in the second update - I don't see any mention of this. It looks like cavalry will now be even more powerful against spearmen (and everything else), as it will be easier to pull off a formed charge.
No mention of the shield bug being fixed? Oh well, at least European cities now have paths to doorways :wall:
Yeah, yeah, I know, separate people working on different areas, but it's still damn frustrating.
I'm still hoping, as Carl is, that the shield bug will be a last minute addition
/prays
It's early days - we should not jump to conclusions. We will only know for sure the shield bug is not fixed in the patch if CA say so - like they said the 2H fix would not be in patch 1 - or if we get the patch and confirm it. In my experience with computer games, it's not unusual to find really big bugfixes or rebalancing somehow do not make it on to official patch feature lists.
Follow your own link. A CA dev says it's only 99% complete ATM, so that could be the last thing on the list as it where (i.e. it's whats taking the longest). I'm sure when lusted shows up he'll be able to confirm that they've fixed it.
You know i can't confirm anything, or at lest not without talking to Palamedes or Caliban.
True, although i'd love to see less boasting of features (although having them is by no means a bad thing), as it seems to me that CA might be trying to hide something in a cloud of good publicity.
Still, you have a point, and I'll reserve judgement until I actually get to play around with the patch. You may be right in pointing out that unless a fix is specifically denied, it may still be in the works.
EDIT:
@Lusted - understood :bow:
Just talked to Caliban, the feature list above is not complete. Hopefully i'll know more soon.
Once Caliban gets back to me about things, it looks like i will have permission to tell you guys what i know.
Okay - that'd be great.
I won't be able to post for almost 24 hours so i'll just say thanks in advance :laugh4:
I doubt i'll hear before then, them being in Oz and me being in the UK and all.
Lusted,
If you are allowed to speak to us, then I don't suppose you know whether aiding AI armies will be able to build their own siege equipment in 1.2? Currently any additional AI armies present at a siege just use the original besieging army's equipment or do nothing.
No i don't know anytihng about that.
@Lusted: I knew you couldn't confrim anything without their permishion (obviouslly), but I figured you wouldn't be on here till later on and would probably have been given permishion by then. Sorry for the confusion.
Well hopefully if things go alright, i'll know by about midnight tonight(early morning Oz time), if not it'll be tomorrow morning.
OK that makes sense. This post then ONLY confirms things they have already fixed and are ready to ship with. There are other things being worked on that haven't been added yet.
Works for me. Nice to know plenty of pathfinding and AI issues will be fixed. And 2h. And that annoying sound stacking thing! Thank God! Sometimes I have to click on a unit several times in a row... it wore on my sanity hearing the same stuff over and over.
OK that makes sense. This post then ONLY confirms things they have already fixed and are ready to ship with. There are other things being worked on that haven't been added yet.
Sort of, from what Caliban was saying not all fixes are listed, only those that definitely work are in. I think the patch has gone for final testing to see if the final few fixes work correctly and don't introduce any new bugs.
Sirius 21
02-22-2007, 13:29
Please, Lusted, could you ask them if the localized patches are going to fix text and audio bugs of localized games?
grinningman
02-22-2007, 13:44
It's early days - we should not jump to conclusions. We will only know for sure the shield bug is not fixed in the patch if CA say so - like they said the 2H fix would not be in patch 1 - or if we get the patch and confirm it. In my experience with computer games, it's not unusual to find really big bugfixes or rebalancing somehow do not make it on to official patch feature lists.
Yes - hopefully Lusted will tell us tomorrow that the shield bug is fixed after all. And I don't want to sound only negative; it looks like there are significant improvements and some new content in the update, which is great.
good stuff, always like more - but nice list of fixes and improvements there
crpcarrot
02-22-2007, 14:04
what the hell is a hotseat mode???
Point_Blank
02-22-2007, 14:04
Can you ask him to clarify the armor upgrade system please?
FactionHeir
02-22-2007, 14:47
Interesting patch notes. Quite a few issues are resolved but mainly things that are not found in the org buglist and mainly very minor issues save a few.
What is definitely missing and REALLY needs fixing are:
- Shield bug
- Siege slowdown on maps larger than castle/Large Town
- Campaign map lag
Its good to see stuff like 2H and chasing routers being addressed though.
Heinrich VI
02-22-2007, 15:13
2) Fully implemented Hotseat mode
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
what the hell is a hotseat mode???
I suspect it refers to Multiplayer Campaigns - you can play one faction's move, then another player can play another faction's move, with the AI taking other factions. This was possible in RTW with only minor scripting, as Myrddraal's mod showed. Apparently, it is also possible in M2TW although I forget the details.
The downside, of couse, is that any battles between players must be autoresolved - which is a pain, given that it is the real time battles that are TWs big feature, IMO. I've always thought it would be relatively trivial for CA to programme it so that a battle in a MP campaign generates a MP battle, but I am not raising my hopes.
Does anyone have any idea what they mean by fully implemented hotseat mode?
Does this just refer to the fact that this will be available without having to mod it in yourself by editing the desc. file but there will still be the same problems there were before? Or does it mean some of these issues have been fixed as well?
Thx for the updates Lusted!
Apostate42
02-22-2007, 16:18
• Fine Grain time control added (accessible by holding Shift and clicking + and - on battle UI)
I wonder if this is going to be like the time control feature in Shogun... where you could slow the game down to manage the battle w/o pausing. That is a feature that I have been missing.
/looks at join date, looks at post count
I should post more.
Delenda est Carthago
02-22-2007, 17:02
If it allows us to slow down the battles then that could actually be quite usefull.....
Still, no evidence that they have fixed the glitch with armour upgrades on Venetian Heavies and Venetian Archers :-(
In regards to thhe shield bug, read this thread at .org, forums.totalwar.org/vb/sh...hp?t=79942
LOL. Lusted's posts over on that official press release thread are all to the tune of "Look over there, something is going to happen!" I'm totally amused. This one in particular seems to hint that he knows and will be spilling his guts... it's just that I don't know if his news will be good or bad :sweatdrop:
LOL. Lusted's posts over on that official press release thread are all to the tune of "Look over there, something is going to happen!" I'm totally amused. This one in particular seems to hint that he knows and will be spilling his guts... it's just that I don't know if his news will be good or bad
Within 24 hours you will know. And im sure you can work out what the news might be from the posts i've made.
Porbably good:smash:, which is what we expected anyway, we just need confirmation to shut up the doubters LOL~;p.
pike master
02-22-2007, 17:45
still no explanation of intentional or accidental performance of problem units. hmmm:shame:
Within 24 hours you will know. And im sure you can work out what the news might be from the posts i've made.
So sure, are you? This is the closest you've come to even hinting at anything:
Sort of, from what Caliban was saying not all fixes are listed, only those that definitely work are in. I think the patch has gone for final testing to see if the final few fixes work correctly and don't introduce any new bugs.
...and that is a far cry from saying the fix in question is being tested. Still, I have faith, and it makes sense that they'd be testing it last-minute, given how recently it was discovered. I suppose it doesn't really matter; as you say, in 24 hours or less we'll all know for sure.
I do want to say, though, that if the shield bug is fixed in this patch, then whoever decided to post a list without that in it ought to be shot. Sure thing or not, it's the one thing everyone was holding their breath about for this update, and posting a list without a word about it is causing a lot of people unhealthy amounts of anxiety, and breeding wild speculation too.
I'd far rather have had no idea the patch even existed until tomorrow (or whenever they know for sure what's in it), when a final list could have simply been released.
So, the shield bug has not been addressed. Disappointing.
So sure, are you?
Yeah Calibans going to chat to Jason, and then let me know.
I'd far rather have had no idea the patch even existed until tomorrow (or whenever they know for sure what's in it), when a final list could have simply been released.
Agreed. I just think they wanted to get the list out so that people would stop wondering about it(quite a few topics asking where the 2nd patch was over at .com).
and what about the guilds bug? i dont know if anyone mention it but if you take some units to retrain for guilds bonuses and save game and then load it the game will forgot about the guild effect and eventually retrain units for money but without bonus effect added. every guild have this bug.
Sirius 21
02-22-2007, 18:09
Please, Lusted, pass them my question. Are localization text/audio bugs fixed? Thanks.
Now i know what CA devs must feel like when they post and get lots of questions asked by lots of people.
At the moment my communication with CA will be about the shield bug and whether it is going to be fixed in patch 1.2 or not.
Sirius 21
02-22-2007, 19:01
Well, I'll wait and see. I don't want to bother you, sorry.:sweatdrop:
DukeKent
02-22-2007, 19:18
That is for Multiplayer campaign hotseat. Allows more than one "Human" faction in a game. All on one computer. In reality it would be aPBEM (Play By E_Mail), or one player playing multiple factions. That was available with mods already. Kind of cool to play two factions in one game :-)
IT IS CONFIRMED!!!!!
Just chatted to Caliban.
THE SHIELD BUG WILL BE FIXED IN 1.2!
And even then there are thing missing from the fix list posted at .com
I'm told the Shield bug has indeed been fixed for update 2, Palamedes might be able to fill you in on more of the details surrounding this but I have been told by multiple sources that it is already in and tested.
There are also three new custom battle maps going in today for testing which hopefully should make the final update release.
apreciate the information calibal, that is great news.
FactionHeir
02-23-2007, 01:06
Thanks for the info!
Any news on the campaign map lag issue though? Its what's been keeping me from playing M2TW.
Thanks for that guys, is their any chance now of getting out of CA exactly what they changed ,(from RTW), that caused this bug, and what knock on effects the fix has on that change if any?
Thanks for that guys, is their any chance now of getting out of CA exactly what they changed ,(from RTW), that caused this bug, and what knock on effects the fix has on that change if any?
Basically they changed the way shields gave defence from missiles(or in melee?), so it provided defence from the left(or more defense from the left?) as well or something Pala said, and for some reason it produced the shield bug. So completely unintended and once they knew what was up pretty easy to fix.
Thanks for that guys, is their any chance now of getting out of CA exactly what they changed ,(from RTW), that caused this bug, and what knock on effects the fix has on that change if any?
LOL Carl. We are but humble users, and are not even supposed to know there are numbers and mathematics involved in making games work! :clown:
As for the shield bug making the 1.2 patch... yay, I can continue my life in peace now. Whew that was close! :sweatdrop:
Thnx Lusted. My geuss on what you've just said is they've altered Defence Skill and Sheild defence so they only give half defence to the front so as to avoid stupidlly high defence values in Melee.
The formulae for that was probably a case of total frontal defence- (sheild defence/2). so if the / got swaped for a * sign it could easilly have created exactly the effect we saw.
Revenant
02-23-2007, 01:32
Great News :2thumbsup:
looks like I could play this game again :)
Sweet! I'm guessing towers were one of the things unmentioned that were fixed... easy fix really.
Anyway I'm happy I feel like I'm about to get in the mail something I ordered months ago. :)
Thanks, Caliban and Lusted. :bow:
Any information on whether the patch will be savegame compatible? We are a month or so into a HRE PBM in the Throne Room and hope that we can at least benefit from the improvements in the battlefield side (I realise some campaign issues might require starting a new campaign to benefit from).
HoreTore
02-23-2007, 02:21
WONDERFUL!
Simply WONDERFUL!
I don't even care about any other bugs now, the fact that this one is fixed is ALL that matters. Nothing else even gets close.
Don't care what else is/isn't in the patch, the fact that the shield bug gets fixed makes it the best thing EVER.
Seems like a good list, all they need to add is Multiplayer campaigns next, i mean seriously...
Apostate42
02-23-2007, 06:39
Excellent news! I'm thrilled to hear that the major bugs are being taken care of. Anyone had any insight on the "fine grain" time control? Is MTW2 going to the old TW style of slowing down time to control the battle? Or will it merely be finer grades between normal and max speed?
SigniferOne
02-23-2007, 06:39
Caliban, would it be possible to at least release the building model import/export script? Or some way to be able to modify settlements? This has nothing to do with the 3rd plugin required for units, and could be extremely good even if the unit import/export script is not released. I find it puzzling that one of the few great moddable things in RTW, settlements from text files, was completely excluded in M2TW. Please consider it! It can be as unofficial as you'd like, and clearly you guys had to get the settlements into the game somehow.
Lusted, did you asked about those upgrades? How they work?
General Zhukov
02-23-2007, 08:11
It'll be interesting to see if the shield fix results in a broad change in relative unit strengths, or whether the numbers and such are shifted around but something close to the pre-patch balance is maintained. And specifically, it will be interesting to see how the fix affects spearmen performance.
Also, with the new info, pikemen are looking even shabbier than usual:
- still no hoplite/steamroller mode
- no access to the newly effective shields
- AI cav now programmed to ride around spearwall
Philbert
02-23-2007, 09:01
Does anyone know whether installing the patch will overwrite any mods I applied? Or do I need to fix that myself?
Can someone point to where to look in this forum for that?
Caesar Vastator
02-23-2007, 10:26
Shield bug fixed?? Great news! Thanks Caliban!!:yes:
Ok the shield bug is fixed and now the units will use it in melee, and now shield unit we'll be stronnger. But have you done some balancements on the unit stats?? Cavalry without shield (if you will mantain the same stats of 1.1) will really sucks compared to the shielded ones, and to solve this problem should be increased stats of no shielded units (especially cavalry) . So have you balanced unit stats?
They probably have, I'd bet. From what it has sounded like, they had to adjust their planned stats around the shield bug (they didn't know what the bug was, but they were adjusting against something by testing). In this case, its not as likely a rebalancing as a reversion to an original concept for the most part. There will probably be a few minor things here or there, but at least the major gears will be working right. Enough so modders can start long term work on stats for their projects... something that was up in the air until now.
Sirius 21
02-23-2007, 11:01
Thanks, CA and Lusted!
yeah, great about sheild bug, but guilds are still bugged i see :shame:
... but guilds are still bugged i see :shame:
You have the patch already? :wink:
grinningman
02-23-2007, 11:19
Thanks for the info Caliban, and Lusted. The patch is looking good. Foz has a good point that it would have saved a lot of fuss if the change list had only been posted after all the changes had been finalised.
Foz has a good point that it would have saved a lot of fuss if the change list had only been posted after all the changes had been finalised.
This puts me in mind of one of Dr Cox's lines in Scrubs:
What? And spare me your hall of fame hissy fit? Not on your life!
I'll say a few things related to unit balanced.
Whilst un-shielded cav will likely lose to shielded cav in melee, they generally have a stronger charge so are more devestating on the charge, but weaker in melee. That sort of balances them out.
And i doubt there will be major changes to unit stats, CA were looking for stronger spears v cav with the patch, and with the shield bug fixed that will happen. Plus it will also fix peasants beating dismounted feudal knights.
It'll be interesting to see if they implemented any fo the balancing suggestions i made to Jason. Guess i'll have to wait for the patch to find out.
And i have not had a chance to chat to Jason for a few days, he know more than Caliban about the armour upgrades.
gainward20000
02-23-2007, 12:24
Hi Lusted, im sorry to pose another question knowing you are loaded with others but this has been pressing me seen Medieval 2 was released. Is the patch going to include the units that were meant to be in the game like wagon forts(Whihc were included in the Strategy guide and the IGN feature) and armoured sergeants for the English? My main concern are the Wagon forts. Many guys i know who play the game are disappojnted that they were left out. IS CA going to correct this and complete the units?
I've not seen any post getting a direct reply on this question.. Would appreciate it if you could find out or persuade them to get the unit in...or for that matter english armoured sergeants etc as well in an official patch.
Thanks a bunch..Please help us Lusted.We've been waitng for ages.
Good question should be if they fixed unit stat screen in regards to armor upgrades.
I got an idea how to find the formula behind the armor upgrades. because i'm in work now, i will do my tests during weekend.
I do not know about the armoured sergeants for england or other such units.
Likewise with the wagon forts, but i do not think they will be added as from the looks of the files left over in regards to those units CA couldn't get them working properly.
^ the org's Godfather...
*kisses ring finger*
grinningman
02-23-2007, 12:51
This puts me in mind of one of Dr Cox's lines in Scrubs:
What? And spare me your hall of fame hissy fit? Not on your life!
Scrubs is indeed awesome. Whoever writes Dr Cox's monologues must have a great time ~:)
Wouldn't you agree that it's weird that one of the most serious bugs (I would argue the most serious, apart from crash-causing bugs), that puts much of the combat system out of whack, didn't even get a mention?
Regarding unit balance - it should be much easier to tweak unit balance now the shield bug, 2H bug, charging and chasing routers is fixed (or at least improved).
I'm looking forward to seeing what effect the diplomacy changes have on the campaign game, too.
FactionHeir
02-23-2007, 13:41
Whilst un-shielded cav will likely lose to shielded cav in melee, they generally have a stronger charge so are more devestating on the charge, but weaker in melee. That sort of balances them out.
Well not really. The charge bonus of 6 vs 8 seems minimal in the vanilla game and its really the speed of the cavalry that matters and the cavalry's defense value.
Slow cavalry which has a high charge value generally tends to lose out as the impact on the infantry is not as strong and therefore they kill less ranks of troops than a quick but lower charge value cavalry.
And it seems I am the only one worried about campaign map lag at all?!?
Well not really. The charge bonus of 6 vs 8 seems minimal in the vanilla game and its really the speed of the cavalry that matters and the cavalry's defense value.
Believe me a charge bonus difference of even 2 is quite big. And given the fact that heavily armoured mounts are only slightly slower than the barded mounts, a unit with a charge bonus of 8 will do more damage in the charge.
And it seems I am the only one worried about campaign map lag at all?!?
Very few people seem to get it, and no one else has said anything about it in this thread.
Dead_Like_Me
02-23-2007, 13:49
Great news :D
can't wait , but does anyone have a date for this miracle ?
also , what about fixing AI ally armies in a siege ? i hope they fix it because i cant stand to see my second army moves slowly as my forces being destroyed.
And about the fixes i gave as solution , any chance that we will see them in work ?
here is my post :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpo...5&postcount=75
and about the Hot-seat here is what i gave :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpo...1&postcount=78
while i emphasize the fact that hot seat battles can be played in lan
if the creators will give a way to extract the battle and implant it back.
like icon that you will press and will move you to lan screen.
FactionHeir
02-23-2007, 14:23
Very few people seem to get it, and no one else has said anything about it in this thread.
Yeah, I guess. There's 6 or 7 people in the buglist confirming though. But I still wonder why something this game-breaking is not fixed while a lot of very minor issues are taken care of in each patch.
Midnight
02-23-2007, 15:33
Maybe they couldn't replicate it?
Good news on the patch fixes! It'll be great to see 2h-axes\bills working properly, and it'll be interesting to see what happens to balance after the shield bug's fixed...
Mid.
Elmar Bijlsma
02-23-2007, 16:30
Uhm, have I skipped over the Timurid Cannon Elephant fix? :no:
Yeah, I guess. There's 6 or 7 people in the buglist confirming though. But I still wonder why something this game-breaking is not fixed while a lot of very minor issues are taken care of in each patch.
Because they fixed a lot of minor patches everyone gets, and didn't fix a big bug that very few people get and they likely couldn't replicate.
What I do not see in the list is whether they have fixed the armor upgrades (stat display). Currently, armor upgrades display correctly in the animations, however, the stat change (at least, the one displayed) is just +1 for every upgrade level.
Something else that's been exceedingly annoying since RTW that I didn't see on the list was the watchtower/movement bugged provinces after a disaster. Any news on that one, or am I just missing it?
gardibolt
02-23-2007, 19:04
Other open questions:
Cannon tower bugs?
Pathfinding problems chasing routers (the Triumphant Cavalry Escort Service)?
Something else that's been exceedingly annoying since RTW that I didn't see on the list was the watchtower/movement bugged provinces after a disaster. Any news on that one, or am I just missing it?
maybe it is intended that way. after you get a flash-flood, the provinces is messed up for the entire game. kind of like "global warming hit" in civ IV.
Andromachus Theodoulos
02-23-2007, 19:29
@ Lusted and Caliban,
Thanks guys for passing on the needed information... :bow:
I am happy you guys still poke your heads in the door and let us know information, even though the mob rushes you before you can close the door again and run away... :laugh4:
I look forward to the release of the patch...
Thanks again for providing the Patch fix list!!!
AT
pike master
02-23-2007, 20:30
:smash: funny how historical accuracy changes after a few years time:smash:
https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s286/hunterhornet/pikesupport.jpg
https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s286/hunterhornet/macedonianphalanx.jpg
please make it right in this patch and not another.
Quickening
02-23-2007, 21:04
Excellent news. Thanks Lusted and Caliban.
As long as the shield bug and two-handed bug are fixed, Im happy.
maybe it is intended that way. after you get a flash-flood, the provinces is messed up for the entire game. kind of like "global warming hit" in civ IV.
Meh... I really doubt that. If it is, I (and several others apparently) very strongly oppose this and want to see it either A> removed or B> able to be modded out. The fact remains that quite a bit of this type of functionality is not moddable and is locked away in the game code.
HoreTore
02-23-2007, 23:17
Seriously, stop complaining. They've fixed the shield bug, which has got to be the biggest one ever. So be happy! :)
There will always be another patch for the other stuff... Can't have it all at once you know..
EDIT: wrote bug instead of patch...hmmm....
Seriously, stop complaining. They've fixed the shield bug, which has got to be the biggest one ever. So be happy! :)
There will always be another patch for the other stuff... Can't have it all at once you know..
EDIT: wrote bug instead of patch...hmmm....
Seriously, stop telling other people to stop discussing stuff or offering valid criticism. There are a large number of other bugs and "matters of taste" that make this game unplayable/unenjoyable for me, the shield bug I didn't even notice. And yes, there will be other patches. It looks like this might be a good one that gets the game up to a point where it's playable and should have been at launch, at least for me.
There are a large number of other bugs and "matters of taste" that make this game unplayable/unenjoyable for me, the shield bug I didn't even notice.
Did you happen to notice that your cavalry always crushed every single shield unit, or that your shield units got stomped by cavalry? Perhaps you saw peasants inexplicably beat down spear units in spite of their awful stats by comparison. If so, then don't claim you didn't even notice the shield bug. If you noticed the effects of something, then you noticed the bug, even if you didn't realize it was a bug. I'm so sick of people hiding behind semantics and claiming they didn't see or were unaffected by a bug simply because it isn't one that causes a CTD or immediately makes you cry when you see its effects. By that definition you've never seen ANY bug, because you ONLY ever witness the effects of a bug. Obviously a viewpoint like that is ludicrous, and you can't just switch on a ludicrous viewpoint whenever it's convenient to use it to look the other way or avoid a valid point.
Quickening
02-24-2007, 01:02
Did you happen to notice that your cavalry always crushed every single shield unit, or that your shield units got stomped by cavalry? Perhaps you saw peasants inexplicably beat down spear units in spite of their awful stats by comparison. If so, then don't claim you didn't even notice the shield bug. If you noticed the effects of something, then you noticed the bug, even if you didn't realize it was a bug. I'm so sick of people hiding behind semantics and claiming they didn't see or were unaffected by a bug simply because it isn't one that causes a CTD or immediately makes you cry when you see its effects. By that definition you've never seen ANY bug, because you ONLY ever witness the effects of a bug. Obviously a viewpoint like that is ludicrous, and you can't just switch on a ludicrous viewpoint whenever it's convenient to use it to look the other way or avoid a valid point.
To be honest, I had seen stupid things like in your examples. But I assumed there was some other factor involved in it that I was unaware of. I would have had no idea about the shield bug unless Id read it here. When I learned about it, I didn't play the game again until now. Was annoying.
To HoreTore, Whacker and Foz - no bickering please. It's Friday night and we're getting a patch soon. Two good reasons to be cheerful. ~:grouphug:
Did you happen to notice that your cavalry always crushed every single shield unit, or that your shield units got stomped by cavalry? Perhaps you saw peasants inexplicably beat down spear units in spite of their awful stats by comparison.
Nope, sure didn't notice the first, but I did notice peasants being too powerful. Kinda funny seeing how in this game most of my stacks are heavily cav based. Don't even think about accusing me of not playing that much either. I'm not going to bother with the rest, but get off your high horse and stop telling people their opinions and views are invalid.
That goes for everyone else too. Enough with the fanboyism and antifanboyism. Criticism, asking for information, or expressing a view in a valid manner is perfectly acceptable, bashing others or this sanctimonious nonsense isn't. There are a lot of great points about the patch and some areas some feel there's room for improvement. I'm with econ, let's stop bickering and get back to intelligent give and take.
Have a good weekend all. :balloon2:
pike master
02-24-2007, 01:30
~:argue: lets have peace brothers
come now kiss and make up ~:grouphug:
...It's Friday night and ...
It's already Saturday morning here ~;p
~:argue: lets have peace brothers
come now kiss and make up ~:grouphug:
Don't make me see you in a Trial of Grievance, Star Captain McPeaceful! :viking:
PS. I don't know about that whole kissing bit. :lips:
Back on topic. Any news on that province bug? Mr. Lusted?
Malcolm Big Head
02-24-2007, 04:07
Any ideas on a timeline for the patch?
I need to finish my peasant invasion prior to the patch turning them into a useless unit.
I am definitely not sad about taking a month long break from MTW2. It seems that I'm coming back to one kick ass game.
I was going through the list and they have almost every little gripe that I had about the game originally... :2thumbsup:
I would also be interested in an ETA. I'm having a B-Day on the 26th, and it would be awesome to get a patch for my 18th. :beam:
From what Caliban has told me, the patch is now in lockdown for final testing, so it will probably be out sometime next week.
And please stop asking me so many questions guys, im not a dev i just have contact with them. I do not have time in our chats to ask every single question you guys have, and be able to talk about things i want to talk to them about.
Quickening
02-24-2007, 12:26
From what Caliban has told me, the patch is now in lockdown for final testing, so it will probably be out sometime next week.
And please stop asking me so many questions guys, im not a dev i just have contact with them. I do not have time in our chats to ask every single question you guys have, and be able to talk about things i want to talk to them about.
Well all the information you have given us is greatly appreciated ~:) There are many happy bunnies here now, including myself.
Callahan9119
02-24-2007, 13:43
hmm i'd love to know if pikes keep formation better, seeing them drop the spears and use those little swords gets unbearable, also i didnt see if anything is being done about half the unit always skulking around in the back instead of fighting
at least give my men at arms in the back an animation to cheer on the guys in the front, instead of just stalking around
and hoping ai actually uses upgrades now
other than that, good stuff
Dead_Like_Me
02-24-2007, 16:39
B-Day ?
you mean Bath-Day ? like you take a shower once a 6 months ? :D
thats crazy man ... if you feel good after Bath-Day then do it more often :)
Forward Observer
02-24-2007, 21:06
While I am excited about the patch, it appears that they are removing one or more of my favorite siege exploits. I always sally on the same turn when first beseiged if I have ballistae, archers and a side gate.
This usually has the effect of making the attackers almost totally passive-- particularily if they have no archers, and most of the time they will also be missing their rams and towers.
Then all I have to do is go out the side gate with my ballista and decimate the besiegers from their flanks. They will usually just stand there and take it until they are forced to retreat. I have defeated tons of besiegers this way even when they had me vastly out numbered.
I see several items in the fix list that tell me this may no longer work.
Actually this exploit has made the game too easy anyway, so I will be interested to see how this plays out.:2thumbsup:
Cheers
lol - ^^ I've been doing the same exact thing, you can even do something similar with a unit of cavalry right now... sally out the side gate, swing around to form up behind the enemy position... they just sit there and nervously look over their shoulders as your men form up... then you charge into their vulnerable rear, and smash at least half, if not more of the offending unit... that unit usually routs - you disengage, chase down the routers, then take up your position behind them again as they hunker down in the same exact spot as before.... rinse and repeat until the whole army is gone - I would target cavalry first, so they couldn't chase after my men as they withdrew; then archers to remove their nuisance; then lighter infantry to demoralize the heavier... then either finish off the heavies, or if success is questionable - simply ride back around the edge, re-enter the city and take the draw with most of their army dead
I'll be glad to see the AI capable of responding to such a silly tactic too
I don't really see anything addressing the campaign map exploits, and poor AI strategy, which is unfortunate. Seeing the mongols attack my citadel one stack at a time, when they had about 5 in the area, always giving me enough time to regroup my army was annoying.
I don't see mention of the traits problems, and other campaign map bugs either.
I don't really see anything addressing the campaign map exploits, and poor AI strategy, which is unfortunate. Seeing the mongols attack my citadel one stack at a time, when they had about 5 in the area, always giving me enough time to regroup my army was annoying.
I don't see mention of the traits problems, and other campaign map bugs either.
I didn't see this either, but fortunately we have a few options for fixing the traits/ancils. I was using Kobal's bit for awhile there, and I think one has been integrated into Problemfixer. Honestly, it's my hope that sooner or later Problemfixer becomes unneeded and CA actually fixes all of the problems that it addresses. Never hurts to dream. :grin:
• Traits/VnV triggers tweaked
Taken from the list.
@Whaker: LOL:laugh4:, you downloaded it now i've got the FileFront Link up?
@Whaker: LOL:laugh4:, you downloaded it now i've got the FileFront Link up?
Actually mate I just reinstalled the game and your fix. :2thumbsup: Definite improvement over vanilla 1.1! Honestly though, you and the other contributers have done some outstanding work with Problemfixer, but if you think about it, ideally it shouldn't need to exist. If RTW was any indication though, then it's a given that there's always going to be a need for Bugfixer/Problemfixer and the talented people to manage them. Keep up the good work!
Glad your enjoying it and find it an improvment.
In defence of CA i'd say that with modern games having have such massive unit veriaty to sell anymore, it's nearly impossibbile for thm to get it well balanced. Even Relic's DoW has a couple of big balance mods running around that are m,ostly considered much better than the vanillia game, in spite of the fact that relic is pretty prompt with patches, (6 or 7 so far I think), and has released 2 expansions for the game. In spite of that support the community of modders has largely done a better job in most people opinions, they have acess to the sheer amounts time, modders, and BETA testers to actually balance the game, as well as not being limited by a marketing department. Indeed even for DoW it's taken in many cases nearly 2 years of continous work and testing for modders to produce a balanced game, neithier CA nor Relic has acess to that much BETA testing time, so in reality within the time constraints they have it's nearly impossibbile for them to get the balance right.
Thats not to say CA couldn't have done a better job than they did, but everything i've heard indicates marketing rushed it out the door even though the devs knew it wasn't ready and had a big bug in it sonmwhere, (the sheild bug), so the blame can't be put at the feet of the people who actually did all the work, they almost ceartinlly did the best job they could given their time constraints, the blame as is ushually the case in matters like this lies with the marketing department.
The Blind Samurai
02-25-2007, 01:56
what is the Cinematic Editor ???
pike master
02-25-2007, 02:35
Response (Gregory) - 17/01/2007 11.53 AM
Hi mad,
Thank you for contacting SEGA Europe.
I'm sorry for the delay but according to the information I have, the coming
patch for Medieval 2 will have some improved network code. Please keep an eye
on www.totalwar.com and the forums for more information on coming patchs
Best regards,
Gregory Bourgeois
Product Support
SEGA Europe
www.sega.co.uk
i didnt see anything mentioned in the list concerning problems with players joining greater than 2 player games even though they can host above 2 player games.
even though as you can see sega said they would fix the issue. will that be listed on a list given out by sega.
is there anyword i can get on this issue to confirm they have included a fix for it?
they almost ceartinlly did the best job they could given their time constraints, the blame as is ushually the case in matters like this lies with the company executives.
Fixed that for ya. :grin:
As I've said before, I'm in complete agreement with you, in that the devs themselves did a great job on this game and did as much as they could with the time they had. I feel their pain also because I've done professional dev work in the past, being ridden mercilessly by clueless and greedy project managers and whatnaught doesn't help the situation. It still doesn't change my opinion about the state of the game right now or when it was released, but I do think that I understand why things happened the way they did.
That said, my views on what they should do with the game right now have not changed. I think first and foremost they need to focus on bugs that are a direct result of game code, i.e. stuff we the community can't mod/fix ourselves. Second, they should focus on bugs that are fixable through moddable files, like traits/ancils. Lastly, they should focus on balancing issues.
Cheers!
I largely agree wit your their Whaker, just hadn't piked up on you with that before. TBH it comes down to the fact that when most people say CA, they mean the Devs and it annos that they get flamed so much when really 90% of the stuff thast goes on isn't really their fualt, it's people elswhere in the company that are to blame.
Does it really matter who is to 'blame' for the supposed faults in the game?
Lets keep this thread civilised and on topic, talking about the new things the patch will bring, not how the fixes 'shouldn't have been necessary' or the like
pike master
02-25-2007, 08:14
why have i got the feeling that noone is giving any new information:juggle2:
Because there none left to give until the final version of the fixlist?
:book: :book: :book:
Well it would be good if the shield bug and the 2H would be solved now .. originally i did think i was doing something wrong * LoL ...
the fixes here on the forum helped a lot, but still i would expect a knight to fight better than a simple spearmen .. * tis is a personal opinion *
maybe if the patch is released i will reinstall the game ...
Daveybaby
02-26-2007, 15:48
Does it really matter who is to 'blame' for the supposed faults in the game?
Heh, for what its worth, *we* (i.e. the game buying general public) are to blame for rushed/bugged games as much as anyone else.
(1) Market forces dictate that a game has to have a certain amount of graphical 'wow factor' in order to sell well. Please lets not kid ourselves that anything else matters for a large majority of gamers.
(2) When designing a modern PC game, you have to decide how good your graphics are going to look at the start. Graphics take just as long to produce as the game code. You have to plan for how technology is going to advance in the (say) 2 years it will take to develop you game.
(3) If you delay your release by too long, your game will start to look old hat. You will have missed your opportunity for the 'wow' factor to be of use. You could always re-do all of the graphics again, and recode the engine again, but thats just going to make you even later.
Case in point : look at those old duke nukem forever screen shots, i seem to remember that they were state of the art at one point. How many times do you think theyve had to recode their engine and redo all of their graphics?
(4) If your game doesnt sell well enough the company *will* go bust. Just take a look throughout the history of game development to see how many fantastic game studios have gone under. Great games are not enough to ensure your survival on their own.
(5) Delaying a game by 3 or 4 months is often not an option. M2TW came out just in time for the big christmas shopping frenzy. Is it reasonable to rush a slightly bugged (but still playable IMO) game out the door to meet this date? Yes, IMHO. If they'd delayed by 3 months they would have missed it - and thus they would have sold far fewer copies of the game. If they'd waited till *next* christmas the game technology would start to look out of date. Meanwhile what are the programmers going to use to buy food with?
So unfortunately the dirty business of market forces and making money is often more important than shipping the 'perfect' game (as if there would ever be a way of making all of your customers 100% happy anyway). Welcome to the real world - anyone who thinks that the bottom line doesnt matter is deluding themselves. You have to deliver great games at the right time. You have to do it to a tight schedule. You have to make enough money to fund the next round of development so that you can get the 'wow' factor for the next game in the series - so that the incredibly fickle and shallow game buying public will notice it's existence for long enough to part with 30 quid for a copy.
And if you get it wrong - no more CA, and no more Total War games.
Just something to bear in mind next time anyone bashes either the devs *or* the 'suits' for rushing a game out.
Bob the Insane
02-26-2007, 16:25
I have put down MTW2 until the 2nd patch is released (finally giving my 360 some attention :laugh4: ) but the list of fixes on this post makes me really look forward to getting back into MTW2 once the patch is released...
Nice stuff, really appreciate the effort...
pike master
02-26-2007, 17:02
what about the vanilla release that you buy at the store. the average joe may only have dial up and not think to download a patch right off.
that sure would hurt sells. they need to make an upgraded game disc and start stamping it out for sell. but then again they are probably waiting to perfect the game and then release the version as a gold edition 8b
King Bob VI
02-26-2007, 21:55
I have dial-up and it doesn't hurt me a bit to download patches, even though they can take a while. What sucks is not being able to download awesome looking mods that are like 100 MB or more. :furious3:
Forward Observer
02-26-2007, 22:10
what about the vanilla release that you buy at the store. the average joe may only have dial up and not think to download a patch right off.
that sure would hurt sells. they need to make an upgraded game disc and start stamping it out for sell. but then again they are probably waiting to perfect the game and then release the version as a gold edition 8b
The "average joe" that you describe probably wouldn't know a shield bug from Shinola. He would either play and enjoy the game and that might be it, or he might want to expand his involvement with the game enough that he might eventually end up at a forum like this.
Then in very short order he would find out that he should not be enjoying the game because he didn't know that longbowmen eat Wheaties instead of Cheerios for breakfast.
On the other hand, after playing the game for a few hours, and getting nowhere because he is too illiterate to read the manual, your "average joe" decides that the game sucks and he is going back to really great games like the "Sims" or "Quake".
Daveybaby hit the nail precisely on the head. The only point I might add was that Sega/CA also probably wanted to beat the release of Vista and DX10, since neither their game nor the new operating system were optimized to work with each other.
I also would imagine that all those "average joes" who got a new PC for Christmas and later took advantage of their free upgrade to Vista might think twice about purchasing a game that only lists compatability with WindowsXP/2000 on the box. (that of course assumes that they can and do read box copy)
Cheers
Well, as games have become more complex patches have become the norm. Even aside from the "rush it out the door" mentality there are always bug that slipped through the testing, and I think most gamers know this and look for the patches. Sometimes the patches are too big to conveniently download, though. I saw one recently that was 95 megs in size, and that wasn't one that added new multiplayer maps to the game like some of the Battlefield 2 patches did. It was all bug fixes, anti cheating software, and networking code.
Oh, and FO, in my experience almost nobody reads box copy. I see countless whiny posts every time a game comes out that only certain video cards can run. "Why won't this buggy game work?" Because you don't have a card that supports pixel shaders! "What do you mean?" It says clearly on the box that the game requires a card that supports pixel shaders. "Why do they make a game that requires shaders then and force me to upgrade to play?" It never stops.
Forward Observer
02-26-2007, 22:30
Yeah, Quillan. I knew it was a bit of a stretch when I said that--lol:beam:
I have dial-up and it doesn't hurt me a bit to download patches, even though they can take a while. What sucks is not being able to download awesome looking mods that are like 100 MB or more. :furious3:
Might want to find yourself a download manager. Something like Gigaget or whatnot. That way, it can pick up downloads again after you lose connection. A little bit here, a little there, some when your asleep or at work, etc and you'll crank through the large files soon enough. It really helps when you don't have to get all of it in one session. I'm on broadband and I use one, that way if I want to play a game online I don't have to worry about a download sucking my bandwidth I can just pause downloads til I'm done.
antisocialmunky
02-27-2007, 01:07
Just don't stick it on Rapidshare *bleeeerrrr*.
JeromeGrasdyke
03-01-2007, 18:59
So unfortunately the dirty business of market forces and making money is often more important than shipping the 'perfect' game (as if there would ever be a way of making all of your customers 100% happy anyway). Welcome to the real world - anyone who thinks that the bottom line doesnt matter is deluding themselves. You have to deliver great games at the right time. You have to do it to a tight schedule. You have to make enough money to fund the next round of development so that you can get the 'wow' factor for the next game in the series - so that the incredibly fickle and shallow game buying public will notice it's existence for long enough to part with 30 quid for a copy.
And if you get it wrong - no more CA, and no more Total War games.
Just something to bear in mind next time anyone bashes either the devs *or* the 'suits' for rushing a game out.
That is pretty close to what it's like.
And in fact, even in a near-perfect environment, with good funding and minimal corporate interference (near impossible, though with the Sega-CA partnership we come quite close), a top-of-the-line technical team, sound project management and a crack set of designers and artists, there are limits to what you can do. The limits on what is possible in software development eventually catch up with you, and so the perfect game does not exist - which is a good thing too, else I'd be out of a job ;)
It's a continuous balancing act with as ultimate aim to produce something that you will enjoy playing, that we can be proud of, and that keeps Sega and CA in the black and the shareholders happy. The fact that Total War has proven so succesful and that we're still here making more of them means we must be doing something right.
Just want to show my approval of a CA person posting. Every post a CA person makes on these forums adds to my(and others') opinion of them.
Just want to show my approval of a CA person posting. Every post a CA person makes on these forums adds to my(and others') opinion of them.
Well, within reason, Garnier. We don't want them JUST posting on forums. :beam:
CA strikes a pretty good balance in getting things out and patching. And I'm willing to forgive a lot when games have the legs that this series does. And the modability which extends the life years over the "standard" sort of game.
That's not to say I don't sometimes :wall: about some design decisions, or :furious3: about some bugs that slipped through. It's not meant to be personal.
I am finding the game much better with a few "fix" mods and am eyeing more comprehensive mods now too. But want this patch to stabilize the base before trying to settle on a personal setup to really play with. Maybe then I'll stop playing 50 turns and restarting. :dizzy2:
chickenhawk
03-01-2007, 20:42
The thing I understand the least is why CA does a very few large patches when some other devs make minor fixes weekly. What is different about the approach to software engineering or the game engine that leads to that approach?
I am not trying to give CA a hard time here, I have gotten my moneys worth and eagerly await the new patch. I am just honestly curious about the process.
pike master
03-01-2007, 21:18
nice when they popup just wish they would stay:furious3:
The thing I understand the least is why CA does a very few large patches when some other devs make minor fixes weekly. What is different about the approach to software engineering or the game engine that leads to that approach?
I am not trying to give CA a hard time here, I have gotten my moneys worth and eagerly await the new patch. I am just honestly curious about the process.
1. It probably saves time. Instead of having to release many patches and make sure each one works correctly, you can put off playtesting until a bunch of changes are in, then sit down to test the entire patched game, looking for all the things you've changed at once. This should save a lot of testing time, and would also make it possible not to have testers in the building all the time to test every little change that you do and want to make into a patch. So, probably saves money too. Time is money though, so that's nearly redundant to say.
2. Organization. From a management standpoint, it makes far more sense to view each patch as a project of its own than to simply slap out fixes whenever they can be finished. This gives a definite timeframe to take community input and discuss ideas for each patch, a development phase, and then a testing phase (it's more complicated than that usually, but that's a good enough explanation for our purposes). That in turn makes it clear to CA how long they're taking suggestions that would get into the current patch, how long they have to develop it, etc. If those phases are too short then you either have to adopt a less structured method that means time is used less efficiently, or you make the phases themselves worthless as not enough could get done in them. Thus it's probably a great benefit to CA to organize and issue the patches as they have - it's easier to be productive when you have a clear idea of the overall picture you're shooting for and a clearly defined method to get there.
3. Perception. You said it yourself: you're eagerly awaiting the 1.2 patch. The patch will almost certainly have a profound impact on the game as we know it, and consequently we will perceive that CA has done a lot of work to accomplish this, and be grateful and understanding of what is required to do it. If the patches came frequently but were never earth-shattering, we would likely simply take them for granted, and it would be far less obvious how much total work was being done by CA to make them happen. As it stands, the patch work is well-known, and it benefits CA to maintain that spotlight - it can be a tremendous plus to them for the community to have big reminders that the game is well-supported.
Constant updating is not without its own benefits, but if you're looking for reasons they'd want bigger patches that encompass more material and development time, these might be some of them.
Kraggenmor
03-01-2007, 21:37
To add to Foz's list:
If you have 10 items to fix with one of them being a 'big' issue and 9 being smaller ones, and set about releasing small patches while the big fix guys are working on the big one, it is entirely possible and even likely that patches released to fix the small things will change the game and cause the big fix guys to have to step back in their development of a fix.
Releasing a big patch (theoretically) allows time to fully understand how all the the fixes are going to affect the game and each other.
I'm pretty pleased with official Hotseat support.
Something I lobbied from my RTW days...
And personaly, I don't care if I can't play RTS battles againt living human. To me, hotseat was always like cooperative play (humans vs AI).
And personaly, I don't care if I can't play RTS battles againt living human. To me, hotseat was always like cooperative play (humans vs AI).
I don't suppose we can tempt you over to the throne room? We have quite a few cooperative TW games in progress, e.g. a M2TW HRE one (The King of the Romans).
Razor1952
03-02-2007, 01:25
IMHO CA are succesful because each incarnation of TW IS better than the last. MTW2 brings a huge improvement in accomodating a wide diversity of playing styles, so although it can never be all things to everyone, it does a pretty good job of appealing to many.
JeromeGrasdyke
03-02-2007, 07:54
To add to Foz's list:
If you have 10 items to fix with one of them being a 'big' issue and 9 being smaller ones, and set about releasing small patches while the big fix guys are working on the big one, it is entirely possible and even likely that patches released to fix the small things will change the game and cause the big fix guys to have to step back in their development of a fix.
Releasing a big patch (theoretically) allows time to fully understand how all the the fixes are going to affect the game and each other.
All factors which contribute, and I'll add another good one: with lots of small patches and no auto-patching system, users tend to miss small patches, and it is harder to get them out on things like cover disks on magazines. That means people end up running various different patched versions, fragmenting the user base, which is bad for both the single-player experience and especially multiplayer... With a single big patch, you can make more noise and reach more players.
The major reason though is the testing cost.
Personally, I think there should be small patches, for things like hotfixes.
Well in this day and age, I think it's a bit backward not to have a game self update and patch. Almost any system that can run M2TW is going to connect to the internet somehow so... there should be a more automated distribution mechanism. Like some games, where it checks the net when it starts for a newer version and offers to update if there is one.
We could use that, it would also allow for more small fixes to be released instead of just big rollups. That proves an advantage for people with slower internet connections as well, they don't get hit with so much all at once.
I'm told the Shield bug has indeed been fixed for update 2, Palamedes might be able to fill you in on more of the details surrounding this but I have been told by multiple sources that it is already in and tested.
There are also three new custom battle maps going in today for testing which hopefully should make the final update release.
Savegames from 1.1 version will be compatible with 1.2 version?
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