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Uri
10-29-2000, 22:33
Now that we have a new forum, you'll have diffculties proving this has been dicussed before... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
No, seriously, if somone said it in the last forum, tell me.

Just a genral suggestion, How about letting you set the level of discipline? I mean, the manuel said that ashigru run when the fear their enemys more than their master.
It can be implemented, just like the tax system. very high cruel punishment will result in many dead after a loss, and a continous atrittion within your army. But, your troops won't run away as quickly.

Any thoughts?


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URI
Not Yuri, the Russian cosmonaut!

[This message has been edited by Uri (edited 10-30-2000).]

Tumdipa
10-29-2000, 22:42
I am not sure I quite get your idea and I would appreciate if you could elaborate.

How would it be calculated? Would the player decide the level of the tax (the number of deaths) or would it be standardize? Is it for campaing use only or for MP games?

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War: Diplomacy by other means

solypsist
10-29-2000, 22:58
I think it's just high-flown gamespeak about how you (as a player) shouldn't depend on ashigaru to carry you through too many tight fights. They tend to run, usually from heavy missile casualties, sooner than regulars.

Didz
10-30-2000, 00:45
This is true in SP games but I was taught a rude lesson in the effectiveness of Ashigaru in MP games by an expert.

If you bump up their honor to 4+ then they are capable of holding their own in a battle line and boy do they move fast.

Uri
10-30-2000, 11:31
Tumpida, sorry I wasn't clear enough, allow me to elaborate on that:
In order to aviod micromanagment, the level of harshness will be globel. You can't have high dicsipline on one army and small discipline on the other. This option will only exist in campaigns, of course. It will be more like the tax level, lax, forgiving, normal, harsh and cruel are the five levels (just an example)
The calculation for level of death shuould (I think) go like this:
When you change to crueler punishment, at first there are many casulties (your soldiers aren't aware that you're so harsh). Later on, the numbers reduce. Casulties should be reltieve to army's size, and dependent on honur and type of unit:
a 0 honur YA willl suffer massive casulties.
A 5 honur WM won't suffer any.

P.S:
I am not trying to say that this option should be implamented in Shogun, on the next patch. just an idea. I thought it will
be a good addition to the next totalwar.

Uri
10-30-2000, 11:34
Sorry for spelling so badly on the first post... It was very late at night.
I edited it, it should be more readable now.

Anssi Hakkinen
10-30-2000, 17:58
The system you present is, in a word, great. It would, if realized, be yet another way to add more personality to your troops, or at least increase interaction with them (and I'm always a vocal advocate of anything even hinting to that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ).

The customary whine: the principle of calculation needs to be tweaked. If honor 0 YA suffer the most casualties because of diciplinary actions, then *nobody* would *ever* use them. If a unit constantly suffers casualties, even when on garrison duty, it's not worth its cost no matter how cheap it is. This would be especially damning in the start, when you have few units - and the start is when Ashigaru are most needed.

But as I said, the idea itself is marvellous. "We want realism!"

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 10-30-2000).]

Obake
10-30-2000, 18:16
Didz, did I just hear you utter something about getting beaten by Ashi? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif After all that abuse you heaped on them at the "official" forum? (heh heh).

As for the subject of the post.........I like the idea of additional training for units (Ashigaru in particular). I don't know about the casualtiy part though. What I think may work better would be to increase the amount of time for a unit to show up. For example, currently a unit of 0 honor Ashi shows up every turn. Say you want honor 1's instead, this would take 2 turns to create, honor 2's would take 3 turns and so on. Making it global would simplify things, but it would also be interesting to implement this on a province by province basis. Also, how about being able to set the training level for each unit type? That way a unit could produce H-1 Ashi in two turns, or an H-0 YS in one turn depending on the needs at any given point.

Obake

Uri
10-30-2000, 23:05
Anssi Hakkinen, thank you for your support http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif. You are correct, long term atrittion is not a good idea. How about this:
Punishment will only be used after lost battles. Changing your punisment to harshest level won't matter as long as your troops don't retreat. HOWEVER, should you lose a battle, and should your troops retreat, a certin portion of them will be executed.
Detirmened by preset level of harshness.

Let me try to explain, using an example:

You start your campign with "normal" rate.
Say I change it to "harsh". Next season, I am atacked. My troops will behave just as if I never changed it to "harsh" on the first battle. Say I lost the battle, my troops routed. Now comes the punishment, no long atrittion, 10% of all ashigraus that ran away, are executed.
Now, on the next battle, troops rout a little more rarely. Every time an execution takes place, the troops become a little more disciplned, up to a certin extent, detrimend by the level of harshness. Every season no execution takes place, the troops become less afraid, and are less discplined.

How about this?

Shimazu Tokugawa
10-30-2000, 23:07
You are a tough on your warriors, too much execution for my taste here, sounds a little like George W. in Texas!
Humbley,
ST

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"Strength and Honor for Clan Kenchikuka"

lanza27
10-31-2000, 15:58
Lets not go political here. it gets me too fired up.
Hehe!!!!!!

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Lanza
Shogun Totalwar Hints and Strategies
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clairobscur
11-01-2000, 06:27
Just wondering...In your system, at what point exactly do your ashigarus begin to join your worst ennemy's army?

Didz
11-01-2000, 18:04
Obake!

You slander me sir!

I have always been a staunch supporter of the lowly peasant soldier. In the right situation they are worth the few grains of rice you have to spend to recruit them and make a suitable alternative to armour when protecting your more valuable troops from missile fire http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

They also run very fast and are capable of getting in the way of warrior monks who sometimes trip over their bodies http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Didz (edited 11-01-2000).]

The Black Ship
11-01-2000, 23:09
I'm not too sure about this one, but at least you're thinking http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
The AI already flaunts the economic rules I can just imagine what it would do with this http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

The honour system is the closest correlation to what you're proposing, and it doesn't cost me any soldiers http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif