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Innocentius
02-24-2007, 11:13
Solely for in-character political discussions (and votings) for the MTW PBM The Republic of Genoa.

Kavhan Isbul
03-01-2007, 18:16
Dear Members of Parliament,

Consul Gregorio II has not yet returned from his last trading expedition in the Levant, and his son, Prince Gregorio, is still not mature yet to fully substitute his father. While we wait for the return of our chosen leader, our enemies, the treacherous Venetians, are mobilizing their forces and the famous general, Bohemond de Tankerville, has been moved in Milano, close to our border. At the same time the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor are also looking upon our city and our possessions with envy and greed, and it is apparent that we are surrounded by enemies. It is imperative therefore that we attend to all pressing matters in the absence of our Consul Gregorio II. Here is the agenda for this session of the Parliament:

1. Province distribution

2. Gold distribution

3. Troop distribution

4. Foreign Policy

Every member of Parliament can submit proposals on the above points, which we will then take a vote on, with each member counting for one vote with the exception of our Chancellor, Innocentius, whose vote will count for two doe to the importance of his office.

Kavhan Isbul
03-01-2007, 19:03
I have been unable to meet with my cousin Rythmic of Pisa, also a representative of the house of Doria, but here is what my house proposes on the 4 points.

1. Wasp of Ajaccio to receive Corsica in exchange for the promise to maintain a unit of Urban militia for the Republic by 1095. It is a poor island and we cannot ask for more.
Gunslinger of Cagliari to receive Sardinia in exchange for the promise to build the necessary structures for the production of galleys and other war vessels, which are so important in our attempt to protect our trading fleets and our ports from Norman, Venetian, Greek and Muslim corsairs. In return for Sardinia Gunslinger will agree to build a dock by 1110 and then provide one galley to the Republic every 10 years, but the Republic shall be responsible for the repair of the ships and the wages of the ships' captains and sailors.
Rythmic and Isbulino Doria to receive Tuscany in exchange for the promise to train and support two units of Urban militia by 1095, and a unit of spearmen by 1100.
Finally, in the absence of Gregorio II, Genoa shall be governed by the Chancellor Innocentius, until Prince Gregorio matures and can substitute his father.

2. Each house to get 1,000 florints, or 1/4 of the Republic's Coffers.

3. For simplicity, each house to take control over the units, currently in its province.

4. Not to engage in any hostilities until Prince Gregorio matures or Consul Gregorio II returns, as we do not have any distinguished military commanders. In the meantime to accept all alliance proposals from fellow Catholics, especially our neighbors, avoiding agreements with the Infidels and the Schismatics. We know that the Venetians are not trustworthy, but an alliance with them will secure one of our land borders, so I suggest that we send our emissary to the Doge to ask for alliance. The Emperor appears to be under the wrong impression that our City and all of Liguria and Tuscany belong to him, and therefore an agreement with him will be hard to reach.

I kindly ask all members to vote on the above proposals (my vote is of course yes to all).

Innocentius
03-01-2007, 19:31
Chancellor Innocentius of Firenze remains seated but speaks aloud.

I agree with Isbulino Doria on the three first suggestions. However, I must remind you all that the lands of Napoli lay open to us. These lands are held by the Greeks of Constantinople and are well-known for supporting corsairs. Also, should we not take these lands quickly enough, I assure you that the Normans of Sicily will claim them instead and the Normans are even less trustworthy than the Greeks. Leaving a potentional naval base open to our enemies might be risky. However I will not give any final answer to this matter as I have yet to hear of the Consul's wish.

Warmaster Horus
03-01-2007, 19:51
A boy, still in his teenage years and sitting in a chair next to the Consul's seat, confers with his mentor and his Father's advisor. After a few minutes, the Prince Gregorio speaks, hesitantly at first, using an old introductory phrase.

Members of the Genoese Parliament, Great Men of the Republic, I Prince Gregorio salute you all humbly. I do not speak officialy, but just wish to convey my thoughts upon these matters.
I agree with Isbulino Doria's first three proposals. However I suggest we also attempt to forge an alliance with the Papacy. I feel that since we are a catholic republic, we should have the best possible relation to the Holy See.
These are in NO way my Father's wishes however. I have had no contact with him for many months now. If one of you has knowledge of his situation, I bid you to speak.

Kavhan Isbul
03-01-2007, 20:02
Isbulino Doria raises and prepers to hold a long speech, later to be known as Isbulino Doria's Speach on Naples

Chancellor Innocentius, Your Highness Prince Gregorio, well respected members of the Parliament, if Consul Gregorio II is to return, then I shall respect any of his decisions regarding the Republic's foreign policy. In his absence though, we still need to decide on certain pressign matters.
As Chancellor Innocentius has pointed out, Naples holds huge importance. It controls the southern part of our peninsula - fertile farmlands and rich trading cities. It will give us an opportunity to prevent the Normans, the Venetians or the Pope to expand in that direction, slowing down these potential enemies' progress. And last but not least, it is easy to take and will give us a great base where troops can be trained.
However, I need to point out that simply because the Greeks are weak and the province easy to take, it does not mean that it will be easy to defend. Our fleet cannot protect all the seas surrounding the southern part of the peninsula, and even if it were, the Pope can still attack us by land. Some of you will be quick to point out that such an attack from the Holy Father is unlikely, but while this is true, we cannot entirely dismiss a conflict with the Vatican and if such a conflict is to ever brak out, we will find ourselves in war with the rest of the Christian World, as all Christian Kings will take the Pope's side. Furhtermore, the treacherous Normans and Venetians might decide to start a war over Naples with us, causing great damage to our trade. The Pope, who as I already pointed out himself has ambitions to extend his rule south of Rome, is likely to take the side of our enemies and threaten us with excommunication. This is why my house believes that Naples will require a large investment for a small immediate return, and is best left to the Greeks as it is, at least until we are able to muster a larger force and fleet and secure a few key alliances.
If in the meantime one of our enemies is to take Naples, this is likely to lead to a war between the power that gains control of the province and the other two of our neighbors. As long as the Papacy is involved in the war, it is almost certain that either the Normans or the Venetians will get excommunicated, leading to an opportunity for us to attack them from behind, getting easy victories as their main forces are engaged with one another or the forces of the Pope, and gain provinces more valuable than Naples, such as Milan, Venice and Sicily. Who knows, in a war between the Normans and the Pope, the former may even conquer Rome, and we may gain Naples from the Holy Father in return from liberating his lands from his enemies, and other provinces on top of that.
It might be more opportunistic for our Republic to grow richer from trade, in the meantime increasing our navy and our armies, and wait for the Naples Question to evolve into a war between our enemies, and get involved in the hostilities once our enemies' armies are depleted.

At the same time, my house is in full support of a punitive expedition against the Schismatics. We just think that Crete or other islands in the Eastern Mediterranean are a better target, as it can be protected by our fllet with only small dejma garrison in Khandia and it will give our Republic a great base on our way to the Black Sea and the Holy Land, where great opportunites for trading and gaining wealth exist.

Warmaster Horus
03-01-2007, 21:23
Honorable Isbulino, I agree with your House's idea about the Naples Question. Waiting seems the best option.
I must however disagree with a 'punitive expedition' as you suggest. It would require financial support; which may be given somewhere else. But if Venice, the Papacy or Sicily decide to attack the Byzantine Empire, we should then and only then strike at one of the Isles. For now we must grow, economically.

naut
03-02-2007, 12:43
I have little more to add than I support the views put forward by my cousin Isbulino.

Wasp
03-02-2007, 18:21
Wasp of Ajaccio waits for a few seconds, then stands up.

First of all, Corsica agrees on Isbulino Doria's plans for the distribution. Also, we support the notion Prince Gregorio put. We should aim for a secure and stable economy. Rash attacks might gain us some land, but without a proper infrastructure to back it up, we might lose more than we gain eventually.

However, if certain.. opportunities present themselves to us, we would be fools not to seize them after a careful consideration. But, a decent general would be necessary.

gunslinger
03-03-2007, 07:14
After spending an uncomfortably long time in conference with the advisors seated behind him, Gunslinger of Cagliari assembles his notes, stands, and addresses the assembly:

Let me begin by thanking those present, as well as our Consul, Gregario II, for supporting my requests pertaining to my position in Sardinia. Sardinia is a humble province in terms of economy. However, I believe that with proper governance it can contribute to the strategic well being of the Geonese Republic. Isbulino Doria has taken upon himself the task of deciding what commitments I should offer our Consul in exchange for his faith in my ability to govern Sardinia. While I agree with my esteemed colleague that Sardinia is well-suited as a place to manufacture ships to benefit of all of Genoa, I must admit some puzzlement concerning his accounting. Perhaps Isbulino has not taken into account the fact that I cannot hope to attract skilled men to work as shipwrights unless I can offer them something more secure than the simple, wooden palisade which now serves as Sardinia's only defense. No, before I can even begin work on a shipwright, I fear I will need to invest in a stone keep. Once I have accomplished these building tasks, I would then have ten years to build a galley. My advisors tell me that it would be possible for me to accomplish these three goals, although it would require the commitment of nearly every florin produced in Sardinia during the ensuing years as well as the 1,000 florins which is my share of the republic's current treasury. In fact, when yearly support costs are factored in, I would not even be able to supplement the paltry 60 man garrison which currently protects Sardinia. It is my understanding that this number isn't even sufficient to prevent the banditry so often undertaken by our Catholic brethren in the peasant classes, let alone the threat posed by the Sicilians to the South.

Perhaps one can understand Isbulino's motivations when one considers that his comparatively rich province, which he suggests should be responsible for the production of three units of infantry, will have much to gain from its trade of wool once an entire generation of Sardinian blood, sweat, and treasure has gone into producing that first galley.

Ah, I fear that I have let my emotions get the best of me, and I may have spoken too harshly. I can only pray that God will grant me such steadfast loyalty and patience as we have seen exhibited by Wasp of Corsica, who gamely agreed to Isbulino's demand for troop production even though he must know that the yearly support costs of his current small garrison already outstrips the yearly income of his entire island. Wasp, I salute you, sir.

Perhaps my esteemed colleague, Isbulino, would be interested in showing his appreciation for the rich province he has been granted by helping to offset the costs imposed on Sardinia for a keep and a shipwright. This would make it possible for me to invest in the natural deposits of silver and salt which are present in my province. My advisors assure me that investments in mines would pay for themselves within ten years of the mine's completion, thus allowing Sardinia to be of somewhat more economic use to our republic. Isbulino may consider this an investment in the fleet which will be protecting his wool shipments, and increasing his accounts receivable, in the years to come.

As to Isbulino Doria's suggestions concerning Naples, I agree wholeheartedly. In my opinion, any uneccesary borders with the papacy are to be avoided whenever possible. As for fears that the Sicilians will invade Naples if we do not, I can only say that I hope they choose to do so, as a conflict with the Byzantine Empire can only weaken them, especially where their navy is concerned. I am of the opinion that once our current borders are relatively secure, we should begin the building of an army with the goal of taking the island of Sicily itself, if the Sicilians should be so foolish as to spread their forces thin. Sicily is a very rich island, with revenues almost equal to all four of our current provinces, and it could be easily defended for the price of upkeep on a few ships.

Gunslinger of Cagliari takes his seat and looks over the assembly with confidence. One of his advisors leans forward to whisper something in his ear while glancing nervously at the rich, powerful and popular ruler of Tuscany

Wasp
03-03-2007, 19:19
Wasp flashes some angry glances to one of his advisors during Gunslinger's speech, and stands up before Isbulino Doria can reply.

My dear Gunslinger, I thank you for your.. kind words. Surely you have the same confidence in our Consul as I?

It is true that we will have to cope with a yearly loss for some time, but me and my advisors are confident that the economy of our island will quickly catch up. If not, I do think our Consul will understand that we have tried everything in our might to balance these costs and profits.

Wasp turns to Isbulino, while taking his seat again.

My excuses, Isbulino, for I am sure you have something to say, as well.

Innocentius
03-03-2007, 19:52
Chancellor Innocentius of Firenze suddenly stands up, unlike his usual ways of calmly speaking while seated.

My gentlemen! I hate to interrupt your discussions, but at the moment we have more urgent matters to deal with. Our beloved Consul is absent!

He has been ill for quite some time now, and none but God knows when he might recover. Therefore a co-Consul must be elected, immediately. So without further ado, I nominate the following for this honourable task:

Isbulino Doria. He has shown great wisdom when it comes to politics and understanding of financial matters.

Prince Gregorio. The boy is young, but able-minded and knows his father better than any of us.

Me, Chancellor Innocentius. I guarantee you that I shall rule properly untill Consul Gregorio II returns. And *he adds in a different voice*, I assure you that I will distribute provinces and titles with justice and all reasonable fairness.

The Chancellor returns to his seat.

Warmaster Horus
03-03-2007, 20:50
The Prince exchanges a few words with his advisors, stands and ,without preamble, begins to speak. His voice has changed however since his last words in the Parliament. His expression, pained when he heard of his Father's illness, has become more determined.

I would vote for the Chancellor Innocentius. His official position is already close to Co-consulship.
I urge you all NOT to vote for Isbulino Doria, in the spirit of equality. Isbulino governs Tuscany and as such might decide to favor his province, on the grounds of proximity of foreign lands.
I must remind you of the motion he set forth:

Finally, in the absence of Gregorio II, Genoa shall be governed by the Chancellor Innocentius, until Prince Gregorio matures and can substitute his father.
Modesty forbids me of putting myself forward. It is your decision alone.

Gregorio looks at the Chancellor, then at an angered Isbulino, and adds hastily:

Sir, I do not mean to insult you, but I think of Genoa first. All other things, beside the Lord, come after. Including personal feelings. Yours, and mine, fall into that category.

He opens his mouth, to speak more but stops himself and sits down.

gunslinger
03-03-2007, 23:41
Chancellor Innocentius, you raise a very valid point. As you have no doubt already discerned, the absence of our beloved Consul at this juncture has led to some. . .unpleasantness. . . which would not have been necessary had someone with the proper authority been present to set the agenda for this meeting and to delegate the responsibilities of the noble men in our republic.

I would respectfully suggest to this assembly that we should take steps to prevent such a crisis of authority in the future. It is the recommendation of my house that we ammend the duties of Chancellor in our republic to allow for the Chancellor to take over the duties of the Consul during any period in which the elected Consul finds himself incapacitated or unable to attend parliament. The Chancellor should have the full authority and responsibilities of the Consul until such a time as the Consul becomes available. The Chancellor should also be tasked with the command of the Consul's bodyguard during such times, and should take the Consul's place among their number when they are committed to battle. Further more, upon the death of any Consul, the Chancellor should be granted temporary authority for the express purpose of organizing the election of a new Consul. Of course, during any period in which our Chancellor is forced to take on the responsibilities of the Consul, he would forfeit his two votes on this council. The founders of our republic very wisely limited the power of the Consul by allowing for his decisions to be overturned by a 2/3 majority of the other members of parliament, and allowing the Chancellor acting as Consul two votes in favor of his own proclamations would undermine the purpose of a parliament.

With your permission, Chancellor Innocentius, I move to table discussion on the election of a Co-Consul, and proceed with a vote on my proposal.

Martok
03-04-2007, 02:26
Lord Martok leans over and whispers into Lord Gunslinger's ear

"Well said, Cousin! Until the Consul is fit to return to duty, Chancellor Innocentius should serve as regent in his stead. If Sardinia is to become the naval power we wish it to be, we will need strong allies -- and Innocentius as regent could well prove....useful in this regard."

Standing up, aloud : "I second the motion made by Lord Gunslinger. Let us elect Chancellor Innocent as regent and co-Consul!"

Martok sits back down, an oddly serene smile upon his face.

Kavhan Isbul
03-04-2007, 07:34
The ruler of Tuscany patiently waits for the rest of the members of the Parliament to voice their opinions. From time to time he whispers something in the year of his cousin, Rythmic Doria, who gravely nods in approval, keeping silent. Then Isbulino rises to speak.

Dear members of Parliamen, first let me start by stating, that neither I, nor any other member of the Doria family has ever expressed a desire to become Consul. I join those who accept Chancellor Innocentius as a co-Consul, and I trust that he will be able to fulfill Gregorio II's duties during our leader's absence. He shall now have the important task of defending the Republic from its enemies, choosing the right allies and leading our troops to glory. Whatever course he chooses for the Republic of Genoa, we shall be obliged to follow.

With the problem of leadership solved, I need to address some other concerns, expressed by members of Parliament.

Honorable Wasp of Ajaccio, as a head of the Doria family let me express my gratitude for your support. You have shown that in these troublesome times there are still decisive men, who see reason. My family has a proposal to make to yours, which would greatly benefit both our duchies. As Corsica has no borders with any foreign kingdoms, and its best defence lies in Genoa's navy, it will require only a small force to maintain order in your province. Therefore, you might find the 100 spearmen station on your lands as not needed and at the same time quite cumbersome on your finances. Instead of disbanding them and losing an already trained force, here is what I and my cousin can offer - we can purchase the above mentioned 100 spearmen from you for 50 florints, as soon as there is a ship linking Corsica to Tuscany. Not only will you gain 50 florints, but you will also save another 50 florints which the upkeep of those troops costs every year, which will be 50 florints added to your income for perpetuity - and unlike any mines or other expensive improvements, this will cost you nothing. So what do you say?

And now, let me address the concerns of our most respected friends form the House of Sardinia. While it is true that the lands of Tuscany are potentially wealthier than those of Sardinia, this duchy will bring serious responsibilities and duties to its Margrave, as unlike an island surrounded by the sea, this duchy currently borders three foreign provinces. If the Pope shall ally with the Venetians, and those two powers attack us together, they will outnumber us 10 to 1. To secure the borders of the Republic, my family will need to maintain a significant force, added to our military obligations to the Consul, and the raising and maintenance of such a force will greatly offset any gains from the land. I am explaining this to show that our family will get just as difficult a task as any other house of nobles within Genoa.
I was glad to hear Lord Gunslinger's invitation for cooperation with our house. The Dorias believe that there is great potential for wealth in the undeveloped resources of salt and silver in Sardinia. We would gladly pool our resources together with those of the house of Sardinia, and for our help in the construction of mines and other facilities as to allow the extraction of salt and silver, we only expect a share of any future income proportionate to our investment. Meaning that if we give 250 florints, then we shall be collecting 25 florints per year for as long as the mines remain operational. Alternatively, we can afford to help our Sardinian friends with 500 florints which shall be theirs for 10 years, with no interest during this time as usury is a deadly sin and we are good Catholics. However, gold is a resource just as any other, be it ships, buildings or weapons, and we shall expect a small rent for our gold in amount of one fifth, or 100 florints, on the 10th year together with the rest of the gold, or 600 florints altogether.
As you can see, the house of Doria welcomes any future cooperation, for in cooperation lies the path to wealth and prosperity. We understand that the stone walls needed for housing a dock are expensive, as are the galleys themselves, and ones a dock is in place in Cagliari, if the Lord has blessed our crops and our enemies keep silent along our borders, we might be able to help with some of the costs for the construction of the vessels. Of coure, the main burden will fall on the Lords of Sardinia, but such effort and expenses deserve an appropriate compensation, and as Gunslinger of Cagliari has pointed out, Sicily is close to Sardinia and if it can be conquered, my house will support the house of Sardinia in its valid claims on this island, currently in the hands of the Normans.
I will be waiting for your answer on my mutually beneficial suggestions.

naut
03-04-2007, 10:56
Rising swiftly and speaking in a courteous manner Rythmic Doria addresses the assembly.

I hope Chancellor Innocentius will rule wisely as regent and steward to the throne, and I have great faith in his abilities.

I digress, our Republic has two initial galleys if I am not mistaken. What will the course of action in regard to these ships be? Should we send one to the Golfo del Leone and possibly trade with Aragon and Toulouse? Such a move could potentially increase the income of Regione Genova by some 64 gold florins per annum. And in Regione Toscana some 18 florins per annum once we gather the resources to undertake the construction of a proper port in Livorno. Conversely movement into the Mare Di Tyrrhenian would only bring 32 florins and 9 florins for Genova and Toscana and our ships may come in contact with those of Venice. I also understand that time and money will have to be spent on trading posts as well in our cities.

I eagerly anticipate your opinions.

Wasp
03-04-2007, 14:34
My dear Isbulino, I thank you for your kind words. However, they will not force me into a hasty decision regarding our garrison. I will dispatch a messenger to your lands as soon as I have made my decision about your offer. I am sure you will respect this, since we all know the bandits who dare to defy God's will by raiding and pillaging our lands. Perhaps we could even have a private talk about this offer, once we have dealt with the current issues?

Wasp turns to the other members of the parliament.

If I am not mistaken, it seems that our dearest Chancellor already has a strong support behind him. Therefore, I'll simply add my vote. We need to develop, and I have confidence that any of the candidates sees this and acts upon it.

Regarding the galleys, we will have to balance protection and trade. I therefore propose to use one galley as a trade ship, and the other as protection.

Innocentius
03-04-2007, 15:45
My friends of the Parliament, I thank you all for the support you have given me and I assure you that I shall not fail you as ruler untill our beloved Gregorio II recovers.

The reign of the four provinces of our lands shall be divided as follows:

The Doria family, Isbulino and Rythmic being the most outstanding members, shall rule Tuscany.

Wasp of Ajaccio shall rule his homelands of Corsica. And unless he objects to it, may I suggest that Ignoramus - who has yet not spoken much here in the Parliament - join him?

Lord Gunslinger and his cousin Martok of Cagliari shall rule over their homelands in Sardinia.

While I shall rule in Genoa itself untill the return of our beloved Consul.

But, as I am not the Consul and will never wield his authority, I leave it up to each and one of you to recruit such troops as you see fit for the defense of our republic while it still allows us to prosper. I urge you all to report to me, individually, as soon as possible, declaring what you are about to construct and what troops you are about to recruit over the following 5 years.

Thank you, my fine gentlemen of the Parliament.

Chancellor Innocentius rises his wineglass and toasts vaguely in the general direction of the other members of the Parliament.

Wasp
03-04-2007, 20:47
Wasp takes a glass and raises it.

Dear Chancellor, I do not know Lord Ignoramus well, but I am sure he would make an excellent Corsican, if I can call him that already. I'll await his decision.

Kavhan Isbul
03-04-2007, 21:43
Honorable Lord Wasp, I respect your decision and agree with you that the matter of these 100 spearmen can be solved outside of parliament. Send me a messenger when you are ready to accept my suggestion, or for any other reason concerning cooperation between our two glorious families.

Co-Consul Innocentius, here is the schedule for next 5 years in Toscana:

Turn 1: keep taxes normal, build watch towers
Turn 2: increase taxes to high, start building town watch
Turn 3: finish Town Watch
Turn 4: increase taxes to very high, start building 20% improved farmland, train one unit of Urban Militia
Turn 5: finish 20% improved farmalnd, train a third unit of Urban Militia

If there shall be a calamity such as flood or famine, decrease taxes as much as necessary to keep population happy.

gunslinger
03-05-2007, 06:00
I thank you, Chancellor Innocetius, for formally legitimizing my claim to the Island of Sardinia. I have been in communication with my cousin, Martok, and we are anxious to begin working together.

Honorable Isbulino, I gratefully accept your offer to share in the cost of building the necessary naval vessels to secure your trade network. We each must provide as we can for the future of The Republic of Genoa.

I will take your offer of investment in the natural resources of Sardinia into consideration. I can not, however, consider your offer for the "rent" of gold. I say this out of my genuine concern for your immortal soul, dear brother. I would respectfully suggest to this assembly that Isbulino's statements on this matter were . . .an aberation; perhaps just a slip of the tongue from a man whose honor and righteousness is normally beyond reproach. I should hope that all gathered here would agree that no word of this unfortunate incident need ever be mentioned outside this room. Isublino, you have my assurances that, should the authorities representing your neighbor to the East ever make inquiries into this matter, you will have my full support.

Finally, it is not my intention to be troublesome on this issue, but I ask Chancellor Innocentius to call for a formal vote on my proposal concerning the duties of the Chancellor in this republic. Happily, the outcome of the vote will have no bearing on Innocentius' current position, since all present have endorsed his leadership. However, the inclusion of my proposal alongside the other laws on display in our library may prevent confusion for future generations.

naut
03-05-2007, 06:45
In my youthful exuberance I completely missed your previous proposal. What you put forward is nonetheless sound and fair, I firmly accept.

Innocentius
03-20-2007, 23:38
Chancellor Innocentius stands up and adresses the Parliament.

Honourable members of the Parliament! Terrible news have just reached us!

Our beloved Consul, Gregorio II, is dead. The diseace ultimately claimed his life. May his glorious memory last forever!
And as I believe most of you know, I was a very good friend of our Consul, and with his death in mind, I have decided to step down from my office as Chancellor . I shall be succeeded by the very competent Isbulino Doria of Tuscany, who will rule the Republic untill Prince Gregorio comes of age. May his reign be both wise and fair!

Innocentius returns to his seat, but soon shakes his head and leaves the Parliament.

Kavhan Isbul
03-21-2007, 00:43
Chancellor Isbulino Doria holds a brief inauguration speech.

First let me express my deepest condolences to Prince Gregorio - Consul Gregorio was a great leader, who shall be deeply missed by all of us.

As a Chancellor I promise to hold the Republic's interests above my own, and to keep all of the Houses well informed of the situation in the Republic's lands. My cousin Rythmic will be Margrave of Tuscany until my duty is finished. Until Prince Gregorio matures, I shall do my best to maintain peace on our borders, and I shall only accept alliance proposals from fellow Christians, which of course excludes all schismatics and heretics. I have much work to do, so I will close this session of Parliament as I need to attend to my duties immediately. May the Lord bless you with good health and prosperity, until our next session.

With this the first session of Parliament in Genoa ends, and Isbulino's is greated with applause (except for Gunslinger of Cagliari and his cousin Martok, who remain in their seats with a grim look on their faces). He waits for the Hall to get empty as all Genoese nobles leave for their lands, and then makes for his large quarters in the Parliament Building. "Genoa needs a Chancellor's Palace," he thinks,"but I will cause a riot if I start building one now. Perhaps it could be built here later, or perhaps ... a beatiful large palace would befit Florence more one day."

Kavhan Isbul
03-21-2007, 17:19
Let me open a new session of Parliament. I hope you have had a chance to read my report of the last 5 years, during which I was at the helm of the Republic. We now finally have a Consul to make the strategic decisions, but this does not mean that there is no need for debate.

The first decision to be amde concerns the Republic's fleet, as we have 2 fleets and a third will be ready next year. I suggest extending our naval reach to the Straits of Sicily. There is rich trade to be had with Palermo, and our presence in these waters will deter any Norman pirates. Alternatively, we can move our fleets West, to establish a connection with the port of Barcelona.

The second matter in need of discussion is the current war between two of our neighbors - the Holy Roman Empire and the Venetians. The Pope has sided with the Venetians. My personal suggestion is that we should wait to see how this conflict develops and if the Emperor is excommunicated and civil war breaks out in his lands, we might consider snatching Provence from him. If the Empire holds fast, and the Germans successfully invade Venice or Milan, we can either finish off whatever is left of the Venetians, or help our allies to prevent the Empire from becoming too strong.

Last time we discussed Naples. My opinion has not changed. The Pope has trained a number of soldiers he now keeps in Rope and Peruggia and is likely to use them to drive the Eastern Romans out of Naples and the Southern part of our peninsula. The Normans keep a princess and an emissary as spies in Naples, and most likely have their own ambitions. We should wait until a war between the Pope and the Normans breaks out and take full advanatge of any advantageous situation that may arise. As for the Eastern Romans, I am of the opinion that attacking them in the Levant is a better option, because the islands there are easier to defend as long as we have a sieable fleet.

There are other, less obvious options for expansion. The Almohads in North Africa are a threat to our fellow Christians on the Iberian peninsula. If we can side with the Castille-Leonese, the Aragonese and the Portugese, an attack on Valencia or Murcia is likely to meet the Pope's approval. We can also attack them in Tunisia, to prevent the Normans from getting to North Africa before us. Keep in mind however, that we will nto be able to recruit soldiers in North Africa, and in Iberia we will be limited to local jinettes.

Our Hungarian allies have been telling me that they are having problems with the Serbs, heretics similar to the Greeks, who refuse to accept the teachings of Rome. They are also worried about a Pagan horde of Cumans on their Eastern borders. The Hungarians are good allies, who we can use against the Germans and the Venetians, and perhaps also against the Eastern Romans. We might consider sending fleets in the Adriatic and helping them against the Serbs. A foothold in the Balkans will allow us to recruit Slavs, who make excellent garrison troops and javelinmen. When our fleets are strong enough, we may even establish a presence in the Black Sea, where a colony in Crimea will boost our traders' valid interests in the area.

Many options to consider, and I would love to hear the opinions of all nobles. The final decision will belong to our Consul Gregorio. I will also need all the houses' schedules for the next five years, as we need to plan ahead and continue the development of our lands. Feel free to share your plans here, or to send me a messenger if you would prefer to keep them secret.

Warmaster Horus
03-21-2007, 18:11
So many possibilities... yet by choosing one we abandon the rest. I urge you all to think a great deal on this matter, for it shall influence our future options.

On the situation in Northern Italy, I believe we should side with the Venetians and the Pope, "snatching Provence", as the Chancellor puts it. We should also prepare troops for northern "expeditions", during which we can reduce the Roman Empire to nothing. Or at least weaken them as much as possible. The provinces we'd acquire, I propose to let them be. Devastate them, and then abandon them.
In other words, noble men, I propose a raid.

Attacking the Byzantine Empire, for that is what they are now, in the Levant requires a fleet. A war fleet. I'm sorry to say that we do not have such for now. But we should not forget that idea yet. Should the Emperor Alexius (OOC: he's the Byzantine Emperor, right?) decide to attack an ally of ours, we should then retaliate in such a manner.

About the Almohad Caliphat, we should first acquire an alliance with their potential enemies. Remember, conquering Valencia is alright, only if the Aragonese don't want it.

To have a foothold in the Balkans would, indeed, allow us to recruit Slav Warriors for our glorious armies. But it would also be a relatively far colony, open to attacks. And we would not necessarily be able to defend it correctly.

I remain to be convinced that we should move against any other than the Holy Roman Empire. But I can still be persuaded.

After this, Consul Gregorio sits, and prepares to listen with care to the others proposals.

Kavhan Isbul
03-22-2007, 18:58
The Genoese nobles remain seated, keeping their opinions to themselves. Isbulino Doria finally breaks the silence in the hall.

Your Majesty's idea is quite interesting, and if it is a raid into the Empire that you wish, then I shall organize an army and Your Majesty will lead it against the enemies. However, here are a few things to consider. Currently, the German provinces are mostly undevelopped, with few farms and buildings, and what we can get from pillaging will only be enough to cover the expenses of raising and keeping an army. Currently, we do not have any spies deep into the Empire, and therefore we would amrch against an enemy of unknown strength. If there is a large Imperial army in Burgundy, it might stop us before we have gotten any far, and then we will have to deal with a strong retaliation. Finally, even if the campaign is successful and Your Majesty manages to devastate a few enemy provinces and get deep into enemy territory, Your Majesty may find himself trapped with little hope to make it safely back to Genoa, if the French or some other Kingdom takes over the devastated German lands and cuts our army off.

We, the Genoese, have been making our fortune from trade, not from from war - we are merchants, not warlords. Our strength lies in our navy and in good relations with out trading partners. If an advantegous situation develops - the Emperor is excommunicated and attacked on multiple fronts, then we may consider taking Provence in the name of the Republic, similar to the way we acquired Corsica and Sardinia, and then develop it for trade. We will be also able to recruit soldiers there - after all most of the people in cities such as Nice speak the same language as we do.

I would love to hear the opinions of our nobles. What does my cousin Rythmic have to say? What does Wasp of Ajaccio think? The resigned Innocentius of Florence surely also has an advice to offer? And of course, strong minded nobles such as Martok and Gunslinger of Cagliary will have an opinion of their own, which they are welcome to express.

Warmaster Horus
03-22-2007, 19:11
The Consul hurriedly rises, before others can speak, and says:
Indeed, it is a rather "risky" method of war, this raid I propose, but remember that it was only a proposal. A raid is to be thought of, and considered with care in a future. But not yet. In the years to come, that may seem to be the correct strategic decision, but for now, we do not know. Provence is obviously what we are wishing to gain from such a confrontation. But only if said confrontation actually occurs.
In my previous speech, I was only pointing out what ... endings the various courses of action may lead to.

Martok
03-22-2007, 20:29
Lord Martok glances at Lord Gunslinger and then slowly stands up, unable to completely hide an expression of distaste as he opens his mouth to speak.

I will say what my cousin is understandably reluctant to say himself, which is that the Lords of Sardinia agree with our noble Chancellor. We would discourage any expeditions against Imperial lands, at least until such time as the Germans begin to fragment under their own weight. As they are currently under the threat of interdiction by the Holy See, I say we need only wait -- the matter will doubtless be solved for us before very long.

For the time being, I recommend that we continue on with extending our trade networks. I second dispatching the (soon to be completed) third fleet towards the Straits of Sicily -- such a move should increase our income quite nicely.

gunslinger
03-22-2007, 22:03
I believe that our Consul was simply pointing out possibilities for discussion and future planning. Obviously, our military is not strong enough at present to begin a prolonged campaign. Before we decide to attack any province we must be sure that we will have the necessary income to support a sufficient defensive garrison there while still protecting Tuscany and Genoa. I believe that the defense of Corsica and Sardinia is best accomplished through naval power. Martok and I are making progress toward this end with the current construction of a keep on Sardinia which will lead to the future construction of shipbuilding facilities.

A question for the Chancellor: Are the current troop levels in Genoa and Tuscany sufficient to defend those provinces against attacks from any and all of their neighbors? The answer to this question may provide direction for further discussions of strategy and policy.

Kavhan Isbul
03-22-2007, 22:53
Gunslinger of Cagliary has asked a good question. Stating whether an army is sufficient or not would be subjective, as there is no way of measuring such things as weather conditions, bravery and the ingenuity of field commanders. In my opinion, our army in Genoa is capable to defeat any German or Venetian invasion. Due to the war between Venice and the Empire, such is unlikely, and will not be an allied one for certain.
The situation in Tuscany is more complicated. The Venetians can invade there from Milan, and while they have similar numbers, the equipment of their troops is better and they have better leaders. This is extremely unlikely, as they have to protect themselves against the Emperor's troops in Tyrolia. Our Hungarian allies can also threaten Venice from the Dalmatian coast. Whether we can rely on them to help us is another question. Overall, while the Venetians are in war with the Empire, I do not think there is any reason to worry about them.
The Pope has raised sizeable armies in both Rome and Peruggia. He is our ally, and the Pappacy is not known as an aggressor, but his armies outnumber our army in Tuscany, and he also has knights and men at arms. Hopefully, he will use his army to expand south and kick the Greeks out of Naples. The Eastern Roman army there is weaker than our army in Tuscany. I do not think the Pope will attack until he has another option and we do not provoke him in some way.

It would probably be a good idea to send our Consul's brother, when he matures, into Tuscany, to provide the garrison there with some knights and a good commander. Tuscany by then should be able to pay for the upkeep of such knights, which is not low - 62 florints I believe. However, we need to keep our armies somewhat limited, so that we can support them. This is why improving our trading networks is important - we deseprately need the income, and right now each port that our ships protect, brings Genoa 32 florints per year. This is why I advised His Majesty to approve the production of more ships, and I am happy to see our Sardinian friends' commitment to contribute towards the creation of a strong navy. Let me remind you that my family already made a large donation to sponsor a navy of dromons. In the meantime, His Majesty should consider building a bowyer's workshop in Genoa to provide good bows to our sailors, so that we can field some missile troops to support our infantry in battles.

gunslinger
03-23-2007, 02:05
So long as our homelands are secure, I agree that we should continue to build our trading networks as well as the necessary infrastructure to field the most advanced fighting units possible. I don't think anyone will disagree that we need to expand our territory soon if we are to thrive. However, I believe that it is to our advantage to let events unfold around us for awhile, and take advantage of any oportunities as they arise. I feel strongly that the key to our greatness lies in the reclaiming the Isle of Sicily as a medium-term goal. I do understand that this undertaking will require considerable investments in military and naval power, and we may need the income from additional provinces on the mainland to help finance those investments.

By the way Chancellor, have we had any messages of. . .support. . .from our new ally, His Holiness The Pope?

Wasp
03-23-2007, 09:08
I do not know that, dear Gunslinger, but I do know my opinion on this matter. As I said earlier, if oppurtunities arise, we should take them after consideration. So, if the Empire is a bit too busy to look after it's southern border, we can quickly expand our own border.

Now, as you all know, I'm in favour of securing our trade first - but I don't see why it would be a problem to do both at the same time. Of course, there will be a risk with money, but I trust that our Chancellor could make a good calculation of that.

As Gunslinger said, I also support the reclaiming of Sicily. The Mediterenian isles are easier to defend than lands in the center of Europe.

naut
03-23-2007, 09:08
How does the old saying go? Discretion is the better part of valour or somesuch. Opportunities are often rare and not to be passed up upon, if God wills it we must except the fate he has granted us.

Kavhan Isbul
03-23-2007, 16:10
Gunslinger of Cagliary, I am not sure if I understand your question correctly. When the Pope's emissary offered us an alliance, he promised to us that His Holiness will use his secret agents against our common enemies. By common enemies the Pope apparently perceives the Holy Roman Emperor. So far, we have had no sighting of any secret agents, but as we have no border forts in all provinces apart from Corsica, it is hard for us to control who passes through. Considering the size of the Papal army, His Holyness has invested his gold and efforts in soldiers rather than spies and assassins. As for his inquisitors, there have been none of them in our lands thus far. There is an inexperienced Bishop currently in this very city, on his way to offer alliance to the Venetian Doge. A Papal emissary is spying in Venice. My informants assure me that the Pope is to be trusted, for now.

It appears that the general sentiment within this hall is to take a wait and see approach - a strategy which I support entirely. We can perhaps instigate other kingdoms to attack the Empire, to make sure that the Emperor cannot transfer troops to reinforce Savoy and the Provence. Dispatching Pietro Corsini to the court of the Danish king with such a mission might be a good idea. Other likely allies are the French, the Poles, The Norse and the Bohemians.

We need to act quickly, so I would ask that all nobles send me their messengers with plans for the next five years - please consult my report if you need to know your treasuries and incomes. I will also need orders from His Majesty, detailing what he needs built in Genoa, and also what alliances to offer and accept. Should we accept a marriage from an eligible Princess, even if she is not Catholic? I will be eagerly waiting for your letters.

naut
03-24-2007, 12:20
An alliance with France would be most welcome if we could gain one. As if any future actions are taken against the Holy Roman Empire, assistance from the French would be most welcome in distracting the western fringes of the Empire, and prevent an effective counter-attack from the Holy Roman Empire.

Before I continue, what is the loyalty of Tuscany's population?

Kavhan Isbul
03-25-2007, 01:54
I should have posted the current Income-Loyalty situation in my report. Here what my informants from the various provinces have brought me:

https://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l9/kavhan/Income.jpg?t=1174783865

Kavhan Isbul
03-27-2007, 20:11
As there were no more questions or suggestions from the Genoese nobles, Isbulino Doria closed the second session of Genoa's Parliament. After everyone left, he and Consul Gregorio had a lengthy discussion. Despite his Pride, the young Consul listened carefully to what the experienced Chancellor had to say. Finally their conversation ended, Isbulino bowed to the ruler and then went to his quarters. "Bring the Master Masons, Carpenters and Shipbuilders to my office. I will also need to meet with Pietro Corsini," he told his servant.

Kavhan Isbul
03-28-2007, 17:20
Your Majesty, Nobles of Genoa, I hope you have all had time to read my report. It has been a decade since I started taking care of the Republic's affairs - 10 years of peace and prosperity. We improved our lands, encouraged trade and signed alliances with almost all our neighbors and many of the other Catholics. Now, a dark danger looms from the North, threatening to destroy all we have been building. The Emperor has showed that the main goal of his reign will be to reassert his authority in Northern Italy. Our allies the Venetians have so far been able to rpeserve their independence, but at a heavy cost - the German armada sank two of their fleets, and if steps are not taken against those pirates, they may destroy trade altogether.
Fortunately, Don Tankerville showed that the Imperial armies are not invincible. That defeat, plus the excommunication has made the Emperor's position somewhat precarious. If he is to lose a few more battles and territory, his unloyal generals will probably start a civil war.

There are two main strategies available to us. The first one is to wait until the Empire is attacked from a few other Kingdoms and hope that our allies will be able to deal it a mortal blow, and then move in to steal Provence and Savoy. If we choose this path, we risk that our allies fail, and we miss the right moment to strike, or we risk that our allies, such as the French and the Venetians, beat us to Savoy and Provence and take them before we can.

The second strategy is to start secretly raising an army in Tuscany and Genoa, with which to defeat the German army in Provence. This is going to involve a huge risk, and the German army in this province is a sizeable one. However, its commander is not known as a great leader, and his strange habits have lowered the morale of his men. Also, the Imperial army contains no professional soldiers - no knights and men-at-arms.
Our Consul has spent the last several years studying the art of war, and is now known as a skilled attacker. This reputation will greatly encourage our troops, and they should be able to defeat the Germans if they are not significantly outnumbered. Our Urban Militia from Tuscany is superior to any other militia in the known world. Finally, 40 knights can decide many battles with a devastating charge.

So here is what I propose. After our new fleet of dromons is finished, we start training Genoese Sailors in Genoa. In the meantime, we should probably consider training a large number of Urban Militiamen in Tuscany. These two troops would make the core of our army. The German army in Savoy is weak, and we would need a small army to defend Genoa, while our main army invades Provence. If we leave Prince Pietro behind with a unit of Urban Militia and a unit of Genoese Sailors, this should be more than enough to keep order in the city and defeat any small German raiding party. For the main army, here is what I estimate to be enough to do the job in Provence - 41 knights, led by our Consul, 360 Urban Militiamen, most of them from Tuscany, 100 spearmen and 180 Genoese Sailors.
For the war on sea, I suggest we recall our galleys to the Ligurian, leaving a fleet of dromons to guard the shores of Sardinia and Corsica, and to protect the trade route between our ports and Rome. Currently all the Imperial ships are in the Gulf of Lions, and if they divide their fleets, we should be able to easily defeat them with surprise and numerical advantage on our side. As soon as the shipbuilder in Sardinia is built, we should start building warships there to replenish any losses. The cost for this fleet should be split, with the House of Sardinia responsible for 300 florints, Corsica responsible for 100 florints, and the rest evenly divided between Genoa and Tuscnay. Keep in mind that Genoa and Tuscany will have significant costs for the training and upkeep of soldiers.

Nobles of Genoa, Your Majesty, let me hear your opinions on the current situation.

Warmaster Horus
03-28-2007, 18:22
I agree with the plans of war our Chancellor drew. I don't think there is anything specially wrong with them, but, if you disagree with this strategy, I will listen to your opinions, noble men of the Parliament.

Martok
03-28-2007, 21:00
I will need to confer with my cousin first, as he has the final say in the affairs of our House. However, I believe Lord Gunslinger will find your plan to be generally acceptable, Lord Chancellor.

Innocentius
03-28-2007, 22:09
The young Innocentius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1482855&postcount=38), a Genoan noble yet unknown to the Parliament due to his young age stands up.

As a good Genoan, I have to adjust to the supreme will of our beloved Consul Gregorio, but dare I say that a war is needed?
Just like Chancellor Isbulino states, darker times are approaching, and it is time we claim our rights and voice our opinions in this chaotic world. Much is changing, and the German giant to our north (and west!) is threatening to eat us should we not react properly, and quickly enough. And again, like Chancellor Isbulino already said; should we not be quick enough, other dynasties will claim the lands we intended and hoped to take as our own.
Invading such a province as Provence is a tough work, no matter how lousy the enemy commander is. We will still be outnumbered and our troops will have a long and tiresome march behind them, but yet I feel that we are capable of pulling such a war off.

So, should there still be anyone in this honourable Parliament who still has second thoughts about the war; may I then ask you: what honour have we left if we let out brothers in Venice fight this war alone? And how does God look upon those who did not fight for him, even though the could?

Innocentius calms down, and returns to his seat.

Kavhan Isbul
03-29-2007, 00:46
Young Innocentius, those are some truly courageous words. You know I am in full favor of a war, but I am in favor of a well planned and organized attack. Our forces are currently barely enough to defend our borders, and we would need at least five more years to assemble an adequate army and navy to allow ourselves a chance of defeating the mighty Empire and keeping the newly conquered provinces. I propose that all troops trained in Tuscany stay there until the last possible moment, to hide our true intentions from the Germans, and also to persuade the Holy Father that Naples is a much easier target than Florence. I also believe that we should wait until the invasion force is ready before we start any hostilities by sea - this may unfortunately allow the Germans to launch another navy, but otherwise they will become aware of our intentions and might rush reenforcements to Provence and Savoy, and we will lose some lucrative trade with Marseille. This income is vital, as our coffers are somewhat depleted and waging war is a costly thing - a bankruptcy may defeat our armies before they even come close to the enemy.
Hopefully, during these five years our Venetian allies will be able to defend themselves, and one or more of our other allies will open another front against the Empire. If Venice or Milan is to fall, this will require a change in our plans and an urgent session of Parliament.
I still need to hear what my cousin Rythmic and Wasp of Ajaccio have to say.

naut
03-29-2007, 05:20
Well Tuscany can afford to train at least 240-300 of the 360 required Militiamen, it will cost all of our current coffers and the upkeep will be 150 Florins. Spearmen can also be provided, but I fear that this would cripple our current defensive capabilities. I do not mind the course of action taken though.

Wasp
03-29-2007, 08:33
Wasp of Ajaccio stands up

I agree with the proposed course of action, although I'm a bit concerned about our coffers. Chancellor, are you sure the chances of taking Provence are large enough to start this kind of war? We must not forget the consequences it will have; without doubt the Empire will try to strike back the first chance it gets!

Now, I don't want to abondon the campaign, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the other scenario's that can happen. What if we take Provence, but at an extremely large cost?

Kavhan Isbul
03-29-2007, 17:13
My cousin has pointed out that the proposed plan of auction will put a serious strain on everyone's coffers. However, we will need 600 Urban Militiamen altogether, of which we already have 360. 120 are the garrisons of the rulers of Corsica and Sardinia. There are 120 in Genoa, and another 120 in Tuscany. Theredore, only 240 more militiamen need to be trained, which given Tuscany's current coffers and income is feasible.

Honourable Don Wasp, you ask what will happen if Provence is taken at a huge cost. The economic cost has already been discussed. The loss of life will also be significant, but if we leave our Venetian allies to their fate, we will follow them as the Empire will undoubtedly turn its attention to our lands as soon as they finish the Venetians off. The price in this case, would be our Independence, which is a price we cannot afford to pay. If we muster an army, equal to the German in numbers, which this plan intends, quality and command will be on our side. Also, we will march with the Holy Corss ahead of our armies, as this will be a campaign against the excommunicated Germans, who in the Pope's esteem are lower than the infidels and heretics, and with the Lord's help on our side our armies will be simply undefeatable!

Wasp
03-29-2007, 21:35
I will trust your wisdom then, Chancellor. I hereby declare my full support for the campaign. That we may be victorious with God on our side!

Kavhan Isbul
04-04-2007, 06:09
Noblemen of Genoa, I have summoned this Parliament a year earlier than agreed, because I fear we have an extraordinary situation to deal with. You have seen my report, let me hear what you suggest as course of action. Just a few additional notes:
- I have word from the French that if we attack in Provence, they might support us with troops. Not a reliable promise, but their 4 emissaries there have been heard to say that the French King wants the Germans cut of from the Mediterranean
- if we relieve the siege in Venice, we will get the gratitude of the Doge and a worldwide reputation as trustworthy allies, but nothing more
- The Imperial army in Venice will not attack us before Venice falls - their leader there is known as a weak attacker, and they risk being cut off if they leave an enemy keep behind them. Thus I feel Tuscany is safe from the Empire for now.
- there are no enemy ships in the Ligurian, which means we can transfer troops from Tuscany to the Provence as quickly, as it would take to transfer troops from Genoa to the Provence, which means we can strike with all our troops at once
- next year, a navy of dromons will be launched in Cagliari
- The Imperial army in Burgundy is a fearsome one, but it protects the province from our French allies and is somewhat unlikely to counterattck in Provence, if we launch a successfull invasion
- our other emissary, Pietro Corsini is on his way to Denmark (as per the Consul's instructions to seek allies against Emperor Conrad II).
- if we leave some small garrisons in Tuscany and Genoa, the rest of our armies will greatly outnumber the Imperial army in Provence, and our troops are deemed superior in quality. The Germans might withdraw to Savoy, as they already have too many borders to defend. Or they may choose to stay and fight, which will see their army crushed - one less sizeable force to worry about
- a conquest of the Provence combined with a relief on the siege in Venice will cause a sharp drop in the waning influence of Conrad II, likely to cause some of his generals, who are already starting to get tired of him (he is still excommunicated) to rebel.
- Princess Vittoria is now 16, and eligible to marry any noble. I need His Majesty's instructions regarding arranging such a marriage.

It is now your time to speak.

naut
04-04-2007, 07:34
Provence seems a viable option when you place all the facts on the table. What do other members have to say?

Wasp
04-04-2007, 08:43
Yes, I agree we should strike Provence and deal a great blow to the Empire! Perhaps, if I'm not speaking before my turn, we could arrange a marriage with the French for a more secure alliance?

Warmaster Horus
04-04-2007, 09:47
Indeed, I agree with striking at Provence.

- a conquest of the Provence combined with a relief on the siege in Venice will cause a sharp drop in the waning influence of Conrad II, likely to cause some of his generals, who are already starting to get tired of him (he is still excommunicated) to rebel.
This, though, is the best solution. I should wonder how many of our men would be needed to assist the Venetians?
And, how many men are awaiting instructions in both Genoa and Tuscany? (OOC: aka what units do we have in those provinces?)
Also, on the subject of Princess Vittoria, I believe she should be sent to marry a French noble.

naut
04-04-2007, 11:07
In Genoa, we currently have 61 knights, 100 spearmen, 120 Urban Militiamen and 120 Genoese Sailors. In Tuscany, we have 100 spearmen and 360 Urban Militiamen.
These are our forces on the mainland.

Warmaster Horus
04-04-2007, 11:22
I see, pardon me, but I've not had time to see the Chancellor's report.
I should say we prepare a force of 61 knights, 100 spearmen, 240 Militiamen and 120 Genoese Sailors to assault Provence, and 100 spearmen, assisted by 240 militiamen to relieve Venice.
I'm not sure that's enough. If you have other suggestions, I'll glady hear them.

Kavhan Isbul
04-04-2007, 16:30
I have no suggestions, but only some advices to offer.
1. Because of the flood loyalty has dropped in Genoa this year, and it would be wise to leave some garrison in both Genoa and Tuscany just for order maintaining purposes.
2. My advice to Your Majesty is to do everything possible to ensure an easy victory in Provence - attacking with all knights and all members of the Royal family is a risky endeavour and a close battle with horrific losses on both sides is the last thing we want - we will need our troops later to defend the acquisiton and further expand our borders.
3. I have read some of the tractates of Roman military scholars, and all generaly state that spitting forces is a poor idea.
4. Helping our allies relieve the siege in Venice would be a noble deed, but we would get their gratitude regardless of whether we send 360 or 60 men there. The world will note our valiant effort in both cases. If the Doge is to counterattack the Germans with all his forces, his forces alone should be enough to repel the invaders, and if he chooses to wait, then our 360 men are deemed insufficient. Sending only 60 Militiamen there will ensure that we made an effort to help, and if we get no support from our various allies - the Venetian Doge, the Pope and the Hungarians, then even if we stay and fight, the sacrifice of these brave men will not be in vain, as they would ensure that the Germans are unable to storm the keep, and therefore the siege in Venice will be prolonged, allowing us to concentrate our main forces elsewhere. The Germans do not have cavalry in Venice, which means that our unit of Militia might be able to simply withdraw from the battlefield (but this will leave Don Tankerville all by himself and will perhaps result in poor reputation for the commander of our detachment).

We have still not heard from Gunslinger and Martok of Sardinia. Young Guido (also known among his peers as Innocentius due to his young age free of sin) perhaps also has some advice to offer, or at least a fervent speech on duty, chivalry and Divine Will.

Innocentius
04-04-2007, 17:07
The young Prince Guido rises and speaks.

It is my belief that such an opportunity to wrench Provence from the Germans will not again occur in a century. I say we act quickly and sieze this opportunity! Sending a minor - merely symbolic - force to Venice seems like an excellent idea. A mere unit of militiamen would do. Should the Venetians not come to their own aid then these men will probably die, but not without honour and glory and not before taking many Germans with them!
So, I suggest we muster our forces and immediately sail/march for Provence, leaving only a minimal amount of troops in Genoa and Tuscany to keep the order.

gunslinger
04-04-2007, 18:23
I agree that we should send assistance to Venice, as long as we retain the ability to defend our own territory and complete our own goals of conquest against the Empire. In my opinion, the size of the force we send into Venice should be sufficient to ensure victory without being so large as to cause the Germans to simply abandon the province. Aside from the worthy goal of increasing the standing of our Consul in the eyes of our neighbors, such a move would also serve to further deplete the German military reserves and cause strife within their leadership. If the Consul is confident that this can be accomplished with only a token force, then so be it.

While I have every confidence that the force Isbulino has proposed for the attack on Provence will succeed, I fear that we will sustain heavy casualties during the attack. Please understand, I am not suggesting that we call off the attack -- only that we keep in mind the need to quickly produce replacements for the troops that we will inevitably lose. To that end, I would like to offer the services of Sardinia's troop training facilities. While it is not feasible for Sardinia to produce and support large numbers of troops at this time, it would be a waste to let our facilities sit idle. If any member of this body would like to train troops in Sardinia (sadly, only basic militia men are available at this time) simply forward your request to the Chancellor. As long as our facilities are not occupied with the building of naval vessels, he may use them at any time.

Martok
04-04-2007, 20:56
I largely concur with my noble cousin Gunslinger. While I could scarely give two figs for Venice itself (they are our competitors in trade, after all), I can't deny that having the Doge's gratitude may have its benefits. If sending a only a small force will accomplish this, then so much the better.

As for Provence, I also believe that we should move against the Imperial garrison there without delay. We have confined ourselves long enough; and with the Germans occupied dealing with both the Venetians and the Danes, the time to strike is indeed at hand. Let the armies march forth!

Kavhan Isbul
04-04-2007, 21:07
All nobles have spoken, Your Majesty. You have the final word now!

Warmaster Horus
04-05-2007, 18:16
*The Consul rises, and expresses himself clearly, with great determination.*
Very well. A decision must be taken.
It is obvious that the Parliament has decided to attack Provence, and send a relieving force to Venice.
That shall be done.
120 Militiamen (OOC=2 units' worth of militiamen, I mean) will be assist in relieving the Venetian Siege.
The amount of warriors that are to be sent to Provence is similar to those I outlined earlier: 61 knights, 200 spearmen, 240 Militiamen and 120 Genoese Sailors.
And, unless I am mistaken this should permit us to protect Genoa and Tuscany with 60 Militiamen in each province.
However, the Chancellor expressed worry on letting both me and prince Guido lead the army. I therefore ask the Prince: do you wish to come? It bothers me not.
The way has been chosen, it is now the time for WAR!

*While saying his final words, the Consul almost shouts, and after his speech, cheers resonated in the hall. The Consul sits, and smiles to himself. He even thought he could get used to this kind of life.*

Kavhan Isbul
04-05-2007, 18:35
It is God's Will! I am afraid prince Guido is still under 16, which would prevent him from taking part in the attack, but there are plenty of enemies to Christianity, so he shall probably have an opportunity to distinguish himself in battle. Prince Pietro however will join you, but will be under your command.

Kavhan Isbul
04-14-2007, 19:35
Dear nobles of Genoa, today I received a messenger from his majesty with great news! Under Consul Gregorio, our armies marched in the name of the Lord and dealt the enemy of the Church a crushing blow! 240 of our enemies lie dead, and another 208 have been captured and ransomed for 332 florints.
The victory came at a cost, however, as 161 of our warriors lost their lives in the name our Lord.

https://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l9/kavhan/ProvenceBattleOutcome.jpg?t=1176573591

In the meantime, our cowardly allies did not support our relief effort in Venice, and our general there decided to retreat instead of facing great odds. Don de Tankerville fought bravely with his few men, but after losing more than half of them was forced to retreat back into the keep. This fight was not in vain, as the Germans still need to capture Venice before they can attack us in Tuscany, and our attempt to help an ally was noticed by other monarchs, who now all have greater respect for Consul Gregorio and Genoa. Here is a glance at what remains of our army in the Provence.

https://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l9/kavhan/ConsulGregorio1102.jpg?t=1176574220

Those of the Germans, that managed to escape behind the stockade of Marseille are currently besieged and will last only a year, as their provisions are running out. Among them is the Duke of Austria, one of the last loyal Imperial generals.

https://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l9/kavhan/?action=view&current=MarseilleGarrison.jpg

It will be up to our Consul to decide whether to storm the fort or wait for its garrison to starve, which will not be long. Unfortunately, our invasion could not prevent the Emperor's governor in Marseille from finishing and launching a fleet of barques, now in the Ligurian. This fleet is menacing our trading vessels and we need to sink it as soon as we can. We have three fleets in the Ligurian, two of dromons and one of galleys. I need to give our admiral orders - should he combine his fleets into one armada and attack, or should he keep them separate and attack in turns with each one?

Here are some other matters that need to be decided. How are we to divide the ransom for the captured men, and which house should get the Provence? Here is a picture of our economic situation:

https://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l9/kavhan/?action=view&current=Economy1102.jpg

We also need to think of what further steps are we to take in the war against the Empire. Do we ask for a cease-fire once we subdue all resistance in the Provence, or do we continue to build up our military and strike on Savoy? Do we send another force to relieve Venice, or do we wait for the keep there to fall in several years and then muster a force to invade the city and claim it for ourselves? We need to consider all of our options carefully as our forces are small and we can easily overextend ourselves, and at the same time we should not miss opportunities to add provinces we consider homelands to our Republic.
Whatever we decide, with God's blessing and commanders such as Consul Gregorio, we are sure to have a bright future ahead of us!

gunslinger
04-15-2007, 05:22
Congratulations to our brave Consul! You have managed not only to defeat our enemy, but also to preserve a very large portion of your army. I look forward to hearing the details of the battle.

Is there any chance of a couterattack by the HRE attempting to relieve the seige? If so, do you have sufficient forces on hand to defend against such an attack?

The Chancellor has raised a good question about the distribution of proceeds from ransoms. I respectfully suggest that all funds from ransoms be presented to the Consul. These funds could be used to rearm the royal bodyguards of his princes, or they could be used in any other way he sees fit.

On a similar note, I would like to suggest that proceeds generated from the looting of conquered provinces be split between the conquering general and the new ruler of the province.

As for our less than bold allies, the Venetians, my advice to this council is to continue sending the same army to their relief as we sent last year. If they wish to fight for their own survival, we will help them. If not, then let them rot away in their castle. Either way, our Consul will be seen supporting our ally by the rest of our neighbors.

naut
04-15-2007, 07:51
There are spare militia in Tuscany and they can be transfered to Provence if need be, but they are the ones suggested to aid the Venetians.

Innocentius
04-15-2007, 15:33
My father Gregorio has indeed won a great victory over our foes, the Germans, and for that I congratulate him.

I suggest that the ransom money for the prisoners go straight to the army of the republic, and especially to recruit new men (retrain) for the bodyguard units of my brothers who so valiantly fought in the battle.

Moreover, I advice we let the Venetians rot all they want. We attempted to aid them, but they were obviously to cowardly to help themselves! Should the Germans ultimately capture Venice, then we might actually take it for ourselves. Consider that, gentlemen.

Martok
04-15-2007, 20:39
Moreover, I advice we let the Venetians rot all they want. We attempted to aid them, but they were obviously to cowardly to help themselves! Should the Germans ultimately capture Venice, then we might actually take it for ourselves. Consider that, gentlemen.
An excellent idea, your Highness. If the Venetians refuse to save themselves, then there is little reason for us not to rescue their city from the Imperial yoke and add its wealth to our own!

Kavhan Isbul
04-16-2007, 05:55
Here are some pros and cons of further support to Venice. By sending a small force, we make sure that the Germans cannot storm the keep, and therefore we earn more time to rebuild and reposition our troops. Furthermore, Consul Gregorio earns influence. Finally, the Venetians, or maybe even the Pope or the Hungarians might decide to aid the effort as well, so our small force might tip the scales. This latter scenario I however consider unlikely - all of our allies have shown that they lack boldness, and the Pope has been unable to even muster the courage to march to Naples against the Schismatics, even though he outnumbers them significantly.
On the other hand, by sending a small force, we force a battle upon don de Tankerville, who cannot abandon the province and needs to fight, and with each fight he loses many of his brave men. He only has 26 people left, and in one of these battles he may not be able to retreat behind Venice's walls. Also, if we send an army that constantly retreats, our commander in Tuscany may gain a reputation of hesitant or eager to retreat leader, lowering the morale of his men.
Personally, I am leaning towards consolidating our gains - let us sink the German fleet in the Ligurian, starve their garrison in Marseille and in the meantime gather an adequate army to allow us to expand our borders even further. The Venetians, in the meantime, at least according to me, need to take care of themselves - we have tried to help them already, and once the Empire is removed as a threat, they will be the only power left to challenge our hegemony in Northern Italy, so leaving them weak may not be a bad idea.

Finally, on the matter of retraining royal knights, I just want to remind everyone that in a few years Prince Guido will mature, along with 19 of his friends, and that the training and upkeep of knights is extremely expensive. Perhaps a mix of Spearmen, Genoese Sailors and Urban Militiamen would be more efficient. I also need to point out that as there were many Tuscanese, who died in the battle fighting for the Republic, their families deserve a part of the ransom as compensation - if His Majesty allocates 100 florints of the ransom to the house of Tuscany, I guarantee that my cousing Rythmic will make sure these funds find their way to the families of the fallen heroes. There are still many Tuscanese left in the Provence, and my cousin is still paying for their upkeep.

Warmaster Horus
04-17-2007, 12:16
Noblemen of Genoa, once again I stand to speak. It has been a long time, yet the situation calls for discussion.

I will starve the town of Marseille. 160 men have already died because of me and I have heard continuous stories of how much more difficult and costly it is to assault the walls of a keep.
The orders sent to the admiral are to merge his fleets into one. Then he is to attack the enemy. This, at least, should be a simple victory.
On the subject of Venice, well, they were cowards. Cowards enough not to come to us, when we were offering our help. I think this alliance should be regarded as coldly as possible. Never shall we forget it, and never shall we offer assistance to them.
We should, of course, continue to build our forces. An attack from the Holy Roman Empire is always possible, and if they succeed in capturing Venice, we should retake it, lest they assault Genoa or Tuscany.
To the question "Which House shall recieve Provence?" I shall award it to the Corsicans.
The ransom shall be divided so: the Genoese shall recieve 200 Florins, and Corsica, or whoever recieves Provence will have 52 Florins. Tuscany shall have 60 and Sardinia will recieve 20 Florins. I realize it's not much, but there will be other opportunities to get rich. And, to the families of the fallen, I extend my greatest and most sincere apologies.

One final item, which concerns Genoa and the Chancellor. I understand there have been some natural disasters in recent years. I give you leave to return the province to the state it was before. I also order you to set taxes to medium, unless they already are.

Of the battle for Provence, well I shall give you a recollection of what I remember. I had set the Urban Militiamen in a straight line, behind which were the Spearmen. The archers were placed to their left, and the Royal Cavalry to the right of the battle lines.
The Germans had set themselves to the far end, which meant that the troops were fresh and ready to fight. I gave the order for the Archers to fire at whomever they saw, this they did quickly, and when I spotted the German commander, I told them to fire at him. That was the role of the archers, to do as much damage as possible.
The enemy infantry had charged our main battle line, and I, in turn, attempted a flanking maneuver with the Spearmen. My own Knights charged several times; once in a line of Archers, several against Militiamen, and twice against Spearmen.
In the end, most of the enemy troops fled the battle, and that was when we captured the 200 or so prisonners.

I believe that is all that needs to be said.

Kavhan Isbul
04-17-2007, 18:12
I have a few final suggestions. The first one is that we convene here again in two years, right after Marseille falls. Only then will Your Majesty be able to officialy give the province to the Corsicans. In other words, I will only need instructions for the next two years.

My next suggestion concerns taxes in Genoa - currently, they are set at the highest possible level, and Genoa's expenses surpass the income. Even with taxes from the other provicnes Genoa only makes as much as to cover all expenses. In other words, our depleted coffers are not filling up. The loyalty is now above 100%, and I only lowered the taxes during the flood, when our army was marching on the Provence. I suggest we keep taxes as high as possible, as long as loyalty is above 100% - otherwise we will soon be in the red and development will be halted. I will decrease them to medium though, if I do not receive any changes in my orders.

Finally, I have a plea to my cousin Rythmic. Dear cousin, when Provence goes to the Corsicans, they will need an army to wipe out any Imeprial loyalists and appease the province, and also to defend it against the Germans and possibly the French. I appeal to your generous nature to assign whatever is left of our militiamen currently in the Provence to Wasp of Ajaccio, to provide him with a starting army.
Your Majesty will probably also find it necessary to leave Prince Pietro in the Provence so that the troops there have a good general, for even the bravest soldier's morale tends to waver if there is not a leader, around whom to rally.

With this I will now wait for my final instructions for the next two years. I know what Wasp wants to get build in Corsica, but I still have had no messenger from Sardinia and Tuscany. I also need some more details regarding our foreign policy when it comes to alliances from Your Majesty. I also have no orders to train any troops in genoa, and I just want to confirm that this is the case.

Warmaster Horus
04-17-2007, 18:20
I agree - let's reconvene in two years.
About the taxes, well, the income of Genoa needs to be higher than its expenses, so naturally raise the taxes as high as necessary (OOC: not very high if high will cover the expenses).

The foreign policy remains the same: ally with Catholics and enemies of the Holy Roman Empire. In the last case, their religion is unimportant. But, their geographical position is. If they are Muslims and far from Europe, then the proposal is to be refused.

Train one unit of Spearmen, if it is possible.
The Prince Pietro will remain in Provence, should he agree.

Martok
04-17-2007, 20:11
Much as I hate for Sardinia's shipyards and work crews to lie idle, we may have to do exactly that for the time being -- our books are still in a bit of disarray from our extensive building program and the construction of the fleet. I will consult with my cousin Lord Gunslinger first, however, and find out whether or not he agrees with my assessment.

naut
04-18-2007, 02:19
I will send all but one unit of Militiamen to Provence, that is as long as Loyalty stays above 100% in Tuscany.

Kavhan Isbul
04-18-2007, 02:53
Perhaps I was not clear enough. I meant the Militiamen already in Provence, once they finish their duty in the Republican army - that is, once Marseille falls. Further military help is up to you and Wasp, but we should not neglect Tuscany.

Wasp
04-18-2007, 09:19
Your Highness, I thank you for giving me the honour of governing Provence. I'll personally see to it that the province will truly be a part of our land as quick as possible.

Chancellor, how many men would there be in Provence, and how many would you need in Tuscany?

Kavhan Isbul
04-18-2007, 17:50
I do not understand the question. First, I have no idea how many Militiamen will survive the siege, as there will be some casualties. Then, it is up to my cousin Rythmic to decide how many of them he will leave in Provence. As for the rest of the army, it is under the command of Consul Gregorio, so apart from Prince Pietri with his few knights, I am not sure if he will leave any other troops back in Provence. All these decision are not up to me to make - I just humbly follow orders.

Speaking of orders, I still need them for Tuscany and Sardinia.

Martok
04-18-2007, 18:50
It appears my noble cousin is being treated at the local abbey for an unspecified illness and cannot be reached for the time being. Thus, it falls upon me to to take care of our family's affairs while he is convalescing.

That said, I've reluctantly decided we have no choice but to hold off on further construction and shipbuilding, at least for the moment. Until I've managed to get our books in some semblance of order again and can verify what funds are aviailable to us, I dare not begin any new projects.

Martok
04-18-2007, 22:10
An addendum:

I was actually able to secure (over the good abbot's objections) a brief meeting with Lord Gunslinger. In addition to agreeing with me that we ought to put a hold on building projects for a short period, he also wished me to convey a message to the rest of you. He said to make clear that the offer of the use of our training facilities still stands -- while they are modest (I believe simple militiamen is the most our barracks our capable of housing right now), they are available to whoever may have need of them. :bow:

naut
04-19-2007, 14:41
I meant the Militiamen already in Provence, once they finish their duty in the Republican army
Ahhh. As many as Wasp may require (and survive) from their ranks may be at his disposal.

Kavhan Isbul
04-20-2007, 05:48
Just before the Marseille garrison starved, the Germans sallied and sent some troops from Burgundy in an attempt to lift the siege. They ournumber us two to one. It will be up to His Majesty to fight or retreat.
In the previous year, the Bohemians attacked the Germans and pushed them out of Austria. Our admiral combined our fleet in the Ligurian and attacked, but this slowed him down and the German pirates managed to escape. May they never return again!
I also had a message that the Almohads have managed to destroy the Kingdom of Portugal. This is the second Christian kingdom to fall against the infidel hordes, after the Armenians could not stand against the Saracens in the East. The enemies of God are everywhere, but we shall prevail.
A unit of spearmen was trained in Genoa and a slat mine was open in Sardinia. Yet another princess was born in our Consul's family, just as her second oldes sister matured. Our two eligible princesses are courting potential husbands within the Spanish and Aragonese noblemen. Pietro Corsini is trying to find the Danish king to offer alliance.