I Need Lessons!!!!

[Indy1958]

Dear Gang:

Greetings from Canada!! I hope this finds you and your well.

As per the subject line, I'm totally lost with this game. Could one of you kind souls please tell me what actually goes on here. All the tutorial guides you through is battles. What I also want to know is how to initiate trade with other nations.

In short, I need :help: :help: :help:

Live long and prosper, take care and thanks kindly!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

[Deus ret.]

Welcome to the .org! :egypt:

Regarding your request, if I understand correctly I think that you may find consulting the manual more rewarding than gathering those bits of information you need from diverse posts all over the forum. But in case you prefer the collected wisdom of these pages (oh my!) , try the following reads:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31445&page=8
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=32726
and, for the units,
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31444

have fun!

[Knight of the Temple]

Greetings, Indy.

From your posts it seems as though you're learning MTW2 as well. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to learn them both at the same time, but obviously that's your business.

As Deus ret. said, reading the manual would be a sensible choice. :beam: That's generally how you learn, unless you prefer to just get stuck in and pick things up as you go along.

A quick answer for trade though: it's very simple. Trade between coastal provinces happens automatically so long as you have ships in place. Generally speaking, that's it; and the rest is pretty much common sense (like obviously you can't trade if the province has no goods with which TO trade). You can read the manual or the guides for exceptions and specifics.

[caravel]

Dear Gang:

Greetings from Canada!! I hope this finds you and your well.

As per the subject line, I'm totally lost with this game. Could one of you kind souls please tell me what actually goes on here. All the tutorial guides you through is battles. What I also want to know is how to initiate trade with other nations.

In short, I need :help: :help: :help:

Live long and prosper, take care and thanks kindly!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.
Welcome, Indy1958, to the .org :bow:

I advise you to read the threads posted by Deus ret, though with this game you really need to take the plunge. You need to get in there and foul up, make mistakes, send you men to their deaths, lose, go bankrupt and get back up dust yourself off and try again. There is no complete guide out there that will tell you the right way to play it. We all have our different approaches that work for us.

I think the hardest things for new players to grasp are the factors of influence, loyalty, happiness, income and naval fleets and trade - all campaign map based factors that have no bearing whatsoever on battles. So I will briefly cover those here, in order that you can just get in there and start playing.

Influence

This is a stat that applies to faction leaders only, it is represented in crowns and replaces the loyalty stat (faction leaders' don't have a loyalty stat for obvious reasons). No other types of characters have an influence stat. Influence indicates your faction leader's (and thus your faction's (you faction leader IS the faction)) standing in the world. The higher the influence the more other factions will take not of him. A faction leader with high influence can usually count on the loyalty of his generals (included faction heirs), he will generally produce good heirs with good stats, one with low influence will be disregarded by his rivals and plotted against by his generals, he will usually produce poor heirs with poor stats. The factor affecting the heirs and unit leaders (generals) is Loyalty.

Loyalty

This factor affects the leaders of your units (the generals). It is represented in shields. Every shield is one point of loyalty up to a (visible) maximum of nine points. If you mouse over this you will see a description of what that number of shields really means. Generally a units leader with 5 or more shields is a loyal man to his faction leader. Those with 4 or less may be thinking about rebelling against their faction leader, so you need to keep an eye on them or take steps to improve their loyalty, remove them from important roles (such as governing a province) or remove them altogether... Loyalty is based on the Influence of your faction leader and is impacted by other events such as lost/won battles or vices/virtues that the unit leaders may acquire. If your faction leader is weak (low influence) loyalty will begin to decline. Losing battles will also cause loyalty to decline, especially those unit leader that were part of the losing army. When the number of disloyal units leaders outnumber the number of loyal unit leaders, the possibility of civil war arises.

Happiness

This is the loyalty of your provinces. This is totally different and entirely separate from the loyalty of your generals, try to keep that in mind. This is what we refer to as happiness, the only part of the game where it is referred to as loyalty in on the province information scroll. On forums such as these the two terms are used interchangeably and can be confusing. When ever you see anything relating "happiness", this refers to provincial loyalty and has nothing to do with a general's loyalty. Happiness is a representation of how happy/content (read this as "oppressed" and it will help you understand it more clearly) the population are. A province is made happier by many different factors, these are the most important:

1) So called "Happy" buildings. These are buildings such as Churches/Mosques, Town watches, Watch towers and Brothels that serve to distract/oppress the populace into believing they're happy. So building these is a priority in a disloyal province but not so much in a loyal one.

2) Taxation. Set it too high and the money comes rolling in, but happiness will decrease - which can be a very bad thing.

3) Spies, having one of these in a province will increase loyalty depending on his valour level (the higher the better).

4) Garrison - the most important factor. If all else fails at holding down a rebellious province, keep a large garrison there to keep the people "happy". ~;) The quality of the garrison is unimportant and 100 peasants can fill the same role (and cost less to support) than 100 good quality troops. Generally the only provinces where you will need large garrisons will be the frontiers to prevent the enemy walking in and taking over.

5) Distance from the faction leader is also a factor. The further away he is from a province the lower the happiness. If he gets cut off from a province by sea that can be rather catastrophic...

6) Newly Conquered will be very unhappy. They will take time to adjust to your rule, probably several years. These are candidates for spies, larger peasants garrisons and happy buildings as a priority.

7) Religious differences are another factor. If you have taken a province of an opposing religion, expect very unhappy people. You will need to place your religious agents there to begin conversion and also take the steps in no. 6 above.

Income

This is rather simple. Every province produces an income, some produce a lot others not much at all. The taxation levels decide how much you get from this to put in your coffers. There are three income types, that which is from trade, that which is from farming and the income from mining or certain religious buildings* (*we won't go into those here).

Farming income upgrades are based on a percentage of the current farming income. So if the Sinai is making 60 florins a year, spending 1000's upgrading it to 80% farmland is a very big no! For provinces such as Aquitaine it's not only a good idea, it's pretty vital for your economy - though you should only spend on upgrades when you can afford to. If you're got about 4000 florins in the bank, spending 2500 to upgrade Aquitaine to 80% improved farmland is unwise at that stage! Upgrading some of your other provinces, with good farmland potential, to 20% or 40% would be more prudent.

Mines should be treated as a supplemental income, not a priority. The returns on mines can be good but the outlay is usually quite high. If you're economically sound it does no harm to build the first mine level (of two levels), upgrading to the next level when the trade and farming income starts to roll in.

Trade income depends on the presence of trade goods in your provinces. Some provinces have between one and three types of trade goods. Others have none at all,and thus cannot trade. In order to see any trade income at all you have to build the Trader building in that province. When this is built those goods will begin generating a single income known as "Local Trade". This is not trading with other provinces but trade within the province. In order to really unleash the benefits of trade, the province needs to be a coastal one and you must also build a port there, which brings us to the final part.

Naval Fleets and Trade

To build your first ship you will need to upgrade to a port. The next stage is to upgrade to the Keep. This costs 1000 florins and takes 8 years. Once the keep is built you can build your shipwright. Once the shipwright is complete you can begin shipbuilding. The first ships you're going to see depend on which faction you're playing as for all Muslim factions it's the Dhow, for the Italians, Sicilians and Byzantine it's the Dromon and Galley, and for all others the Barque. I am going to assume you're playing as faction capable of building the Barque.

Your first barque will appear off shore from it's home province. It will take three years to construct (yes far too long but I didn't make the game sorry :laugh4: ). The Barque will now be effectively patrolling that part of your coastline. Any enemies will be unable to invade your lands from there. Now if you were for example the English and you were thinking of invading Spain, you may want to go via sea instead of marching across France, upsetting them in the progress? The way to do this is to place at least two of your ships in every sea, stretching from Wessex, where your army is located and where you've also built a port, to Leon. You then simply need to pick up your army from Wessex and drop it into Leon and boom - invasion begun... or is it? Well no, unfortunately not. It may work but the Spaniards may have engaged in a little ship building themselves, in which case your army will be going nowhere. In simple terms, an invasion/transportation path cannot be blocked by enemy ships or the ships belonging to the faction you're going to attack, even if they're neutral or allied. So to deal with that, you've got to attack and sink their ships first, this will clear the path and allow your invasion. We've used Wessex and Leon as an example, the same applies to Wessex and Egypt: If you have a continuous unbroken line of ships from a to b, with no enemy ships, or ships belonging to the faction you're going to attack blocking the route, it's exactly the same as the example above, if not your army is going nowhere until there is. To check the route for breaks or hostile fleets hold the V key. This will show you friendly passable waters in green, neutral waters in brown and hostile in red. Red and brown are impassable. You either need to get a fleet there, or you need to sink enemy fleet(s) that are there and possibly get a fleet of your own there. Establishing and maintaining a naval network of this kind is crucial for trade, transportation and protecting your coastal provinces from seaborne invasions (you don't want the Spaniards taking the return trip!).

This naval network has another vital purpose however, and that is trade, which can yield a huge income. Those trade goods mentioned earlier can, via your naval network, be traded with other provinces on the map, providing those provinces have a port to trade with. No port, no trade. This income can be quite substantial, and generally the more ships you have out there the more trade you'll do. Also the more trade goods in your provinces the more income they will return. There are some important points to note however. The first is that any red sea zones along the route are effectively a blockade. So yes, that lone enemy fleet can effectively cut off your trade links with the rest of the world hitting your income severely. You also cannot trade goods with a province that already has those goods. No income is returned in such cases. The Trader can also be upgraded to increase your trade income, this is very important for those provinces with 2 or more trade goods and less so for those with 1, which can be upgraded at leisure. Landlocked provinces cannot trade in this way - no port no trade - so it is debatable as to whether it is worth building a Trader at all. Some landlocked provinces with three trade goods do return a decent Local Trade income when a Trader is built, but is rarely worth upgrading beyond the first building.

Argghhh look! it's turned into a guide!!! :skull:

:bow:

[EatYerGreens]

Also note that you cannot 'trade with yourself'. You can only export to provinces owned by other factions and, even if they have no actual ships to blockade you with, a state of war between you breaks the trade agreement and you lose the income from all the ports that they own.

It's quite easy to overbuild troops, thanks to having a good trade income but then, when a war breaks out and the enemy's ships blockade your trade routes, you may find that the loss of income puts you into negative cashflow, thanks to the annual support costs of all those troops.

You're then practically obliged to attack and gain more territories to support the excess troops, for as long as the blockades will last, or until you can dominate the seas. Disbandment of your weakest units (peasants, militia) is an option, of course, but doing this at the frontiers would only tempt the other factions to invade.

In short, trade keeps you honest and mollifies any agressive tendencies on your part.

If you can 'turtle' your way to a bank balance in the hundreds of thousands, you might be able to afford to conquer the rest of the map, despite negative cashflow all the way, until the last stage. With a huge bank balance, you can even afford to bribe the last few territories, rather than spend hours fighting them, in 3D battles.

[gunslinger]

It's quite easy to overbuild troops, thanks to having a good trade income but then, when a war breaks out and the enemy's ships blockade your trade routes, you may find that the loss of income puts you into negative cashflow, thanks to the annual support costs of all those troops.

In my opinion, the worst consequence of this setup occurs when you're playing as a big Catholic faction and some tiny Catholic faction gets uppity. You get your warning from the Pope for attacking them, or even counterattacking if they are beseiging your castle, and then they send their only two boats to blockade your most profitable trading ports. You are forced to go into negative income for twelve years (10 for the warning + 1 to sink their fleets + 1 to re-establish trade) or get excommunicated.

[Kavhan Isbul]

In my opinion, the worst consequence of this setup occurs when you're playing as a big Catholic faction and some tiny Catholic faction gets uppity. You get your warning from the Pope for attacking them, or even counterattacking if they are beseiging your castle, and then they send their only two boats to blockade your most profitable trading ports. You are forced to go into negative income for twelve years (10 for the warning + 1 to sink their fleets + 1 to re-establish trade) or get excommunicated.

Or, and this is more advanaced now, you can send your best 2 assassins after the Pope and hope that they will manage to cause his untimely death. Once the Pope dies, you start with a clean sheet, so you can sink the ships that bother you. When the new Pope issues a warning, you might want to invade the provicnes, in which the Ai produces its ships to make sure it cannot produce ships again. But in thsi case you need to conquer the province in the next two turns after the warning has been issued, including taking the castles.

[Deus ret.]

Or you could get the warning for another small catholic faction you're at war with and then go after your real target at ease. This is especially viable when playing the HRE, since usually you won't have trouble to be at war -- you will have trouble to stay at peace with any of your neighbours, but if you pick one of them and invade them for one turn so the pope issues his warning, you can withdraw again and sink those darned fleets.

[Indy1958]

Dear Gang:

Good afternoon from Canada!!! I hope this finds you and yours well.

You'll be happy to note that I have learned my first lesson in this game is how to rid myself of disloyal Generals, which is always good. I'm playing as Egypt for it told me it was the easiest with which to work. I had a few Generals trying to raise a little hell, and the game informed that in order to get rid of the disloyal person was to send your diplomat to strip him of all his titles, etc.

Let's put it this way--I came. I saw. I did not like what my General was doing. I STRIPPED!!!!

Live long and prosper, take care and thank you kindly!!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

[gunslinger]

Or, and this is more advanaced now, you can send your best 2 assassins after the Pope and hope that they will manage to cause his untimely death.

Good call. I've just never managed to get assasins trained up to the point where they can manage to kill kings or popes. After I've trained them up on diplomats and princesses (and even each other) I generally just use them to kill rival inquisitors in my own provinces, as assasins are the only active defensive measure you can take against them.

[Kavhan Isbul]

I am running the risk of going off-topic here, as I am not sure if my following comments will be any helpful to Indy1958, but I have found the Pope quite easy to assassinate, as he is usually a 0 rank commander, and a 4-star assassin has a 50% chance. Sending two 3 or 4 star assassins does not guarantee a successfull attempt, but you have a decent shot. Kings are harder to assassinate as they tend to have some command stars. Any ruler over 4 stars in mu opinion at least is pretty much invincible to assassins.

[tostigB]

Hello Indy. In short, you need a province with trade goods, a trading post, a port, and ships to maximize trade income. Your trading post alone only gives you a little income. I use ships and trade income to build wealth with every game I play. This only goes so far as ther is no war with a faction that has ships sharing a sea with you. I take it as long as I can to build enough wealth to start attacking other factions. I hope this helps.

[Caerfanan]

I am running the risk of going off-topic here, as I am not sure if my following comments will be any helpful to Indy1958, but I have found the Pope quite easy to assassinate, as he is usually a 0 rank commander, and a 4-star assassin has a 50% chance. Sending two 3 or 4 star assassins does not guarantee a successfull attempt, but you have a decent shot. Kings are harder to assassinate as they tend to have some command stars. Any ruler over 4 stars in mu opinion at least is pretty much invincible to assassins.

There is something working pretty well: you send tons of assassin, from the same province to the same target, it usually works. If you send 3 which fail, you will usually have a tougher target afterwards. But if you send 15 and one succeeds, too late to have bonuses! :whip:

[caravel]

There is something working pretty well: you send tons of assassin, from the same province to the same target, it usually works. If you send 3 which fail, you will usually have a tougher target afterwards. But if you send 15 and one succeeds, too late to have bonuses! :whip:
The difficulty with the Pope is that Rome and the Papal States are usually border forted, so you may lose a lot of Valour 4/5 assassins before you actually get close to the target.

[Kavhan Isbul]

There is something working pretty well: you send tons of assassin, from the same province to the same target, it usually works. If you send 3 which fail, you will usually have a tougher target afterwards. But if you send 15 and one succeeds, too late to have bonuses! :whip:

Every time I do this only two really try to assassinate, and the rest get slaughtered by the border fort.

[Caerfanan]

The difficulty with the Pope is that Rome and the Papal States are usually border forted, so you may lose a lot of Valour 4/5 assassins before you actually get close to the target.
Well, I'm speaking from viking campaigns, on hard level (not expert yet. :shame: ). I have usually one province producing valoured up asassins (yes I'm speaking of quite "far" in the game"), and it does usually work, even if from time to time it doesn't. But using huge wave of assassins is efficient IMHO.

Of course, I wouldn't use "improved assassins" on such a "bandwagon and dangerous" task!

[Caerfanan]

Every time I do this only two really try to assassinate, and the rest get slaughtered by the border fort.
Then I might be lucky (computer random figures are surprising some times). I've been saved a couple of times from an impossible war by a clean (ahem.. massive) assassination of a royal line... It did cost tons of assassins (literally), but, excuse my french, saved my royal arse!

[caravel]

Every time I do this only two really try to assassinate, and the rest get slaughtered by the border fort.
Never send valour 0 - 4 assassins or spies through a border forted province, they will simply die before they reach the target. Even with a Valour 5 Assassin or spy I would send them in, pray, and if they do pull it off, get them straight out of there the next turn. Every turn they're in there the border fort and other counterspying agents have a go at catching them.

[EatYerGreens]

If you're in the mood for real cheese... (and I must emphasise that I've only ever theorised about this myself, never actually done it in a game because it's so absurd and doesn't suit role-play fans at all)...

you can get a v_5 assassin for around 1800 florins:-

1 x assassin @ 200 fl (preferably with starting stars from the alehouse etc)
16 x emissary / bishop @ 100 fl

Kill your emissaries one by one (on rare occasions, your assassin will die in one of the attempts and you'll have to start over).

16 kills is worth 5 stars, even for an assassin starting at v_0.

You now have the equivalent of a Guy of Gisbourne, reasonable chances of success versus border forts and at least a decent shot at the target.

Mind you, I've lost G-o-G himself before, on a stupid mission against a completely trivial, low-star target, so you still have a chance of completely wasting your money, in trying this. Not to mention the lives it cost...


And I don't know about you lot, but I still flinch (3 times), every time I hear the 'assassin captured' soundtrack... :whip: :whip: :smash: :skull: