Issues with unit command buttons.

[Omisan]

This is annoying, whenever you give a new order to units that are already running, you have to double click or re-click on the "run" button or else they will revert to walking.

Also, when you pause the game to give orders, it seems like the "run/walk" button doesn't work.

Anyway, I think the "walk/run" button should be a switch like the "fire at will" or "guard" button and only change when you click on it.

There should be a "hold your fire" button for ranged units. They always keep firing even after disabling "fire at will" or using the "stop" button. It seems like the only way to really make them stop shooting is to order them to move somewhere. :thumbsdown:

We also need a button to make the archers/crossbowmen switch between ranged or melee weapons. Right now, they just do whatever they feel like. Sometimes they get mowed in melee without ever using their daggers/swords. :wall:

[Roy1991]

This is annoying, whenever you give a new order to units that are already running, you have to double click or re-click on the "run" button or else they will revert to walking.

I don't really see what's the problem here.
Why does it matter that you have to double-click?


There should be a "hold your fire" button for ranged units. They always keep firing even after disabling "fire at will" or using the "stop" button. It seems like the only way to really make them stop shooting is to order them to move somewhere.

When you disable fire at will, any archers that've already started their firing animation (taking an arrow, aiming, fire), will complete it. Then they'll cease fire.



We also need a button to make the archers/crossbowmen switch between ranged or melee weapons. Right now, they just do whatever they feel like. Sometimes they get mowed in melee without ever using their daggers/swords.

Alt+double-click on the enemy unit you wish them to attack with htier secondary weapon.

[Omisan]

I don't really see what's the problem here.
Why does it matter that you have to double-click?



When you disable fire at will, any archers that've already started their firing animation (taking an arrow, aiming, fire), will complete it. Then they'll cease fire.


Alt+double-click on the enemy unit you wish them to attack with their secondary weapon.

- The problem is that if you make any ajustments to the orders you gave before, you have to tell your units to run again, again and again. They should stick to the speed you gave them and not revert to walking all the time. Spears don't stop using schiltrom if you give them a move order, canon don't stop using exploding ammo if you give them a new target, etc. I don't see why my units should stop running unless I specifically tell them to.

Basically , I'm just asking for the "walk/run" button to function like the other ones. ~:cool:

- Still, they keep firing after you told them to stop and only using a move command will save friendly units. It shouldn't be that way.

Imagine if you are a King on the battlefield and you order your archers to cease fire...and then you see a bunch of them that are still firing long after the order was given. They would lose their heads. :smash:

All strategy games featuring friendly fire that I have played before had a "hold your fire" command that worked immediately, not 10 seconds later or when the unit felt like it.

- Thanks, I didn't know that one.

[Lusted]

- The problem is that if you make any ajustments to the orders you gave before, you have to tell your units to run again, again and again. They should stick to the speed you gave them and not revert to walking all the time. Spears don't stop using schiltrom if you give them a move order, canon don't stop using exploding ammo if you give them a new target, etc. I don't see why my units should stop running unless I specifically tell them to.

Why not just double click when you want them to run, or if your dragging them out into formation at a certain place, is it that difficult to press r or click the button?


- Still, they keep firing after you told them to stop and only using a move command will save friendly units. It shouldn't be that way.

Yes they go through the animation cycle, and with some bows historically you could not interrupt them in the middle of firing, if you did the archer would have to try and shoot the aroow into the ground.

Just click halt, turn off fire at will and it doesn't take them that long to stop.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Omisan I know exactly what you mean. There are quite a few issues with the command buttons and the walk/run is only one of them

eg ever use attack with missile unit. Instead of walking within range and then firing they walk right up to the enemy.

The buttons themselves are totally unresponsive, often you need to repeat the action to get a result.

Skirmish hardly works. After a missile unit uses up all its ammo although skirmish is indicated but it doesn't work.

The list is really quite large, I just haven't been taking notes but the worst is the amateurish look and feel of the buttons. Not user friendly at all. Such a slide downhill compared to RTW.

[Lusted]

eg ever use attack with missile unit. Instead of walking within range and then firing they walk right up to the enemy.

Strange, when i tell my archers to attack, they walk within range and.....open fire.


The buttons themselves are totally unresponsive, often you need to repeat the action to get a result.

I've only ever needed to press a button once.


Skirmish hardly works. After a missile unit uses up all its ammo although skirmish is indicated but it doesn't work.

Yeah, missile units dont skirmish once they've used their missiles, as there's no point as they dont have any missiles left. Otherwise all units would be able to skirmish.

[TevashSzat]

Nebuchadnezzar perhaps you were alt-clicking or the unit ran out of arrows in which the unit is supposed to walk up and engage the enemy

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Nebuchadnezzar perhaps you were alt-clicking or the unit ran out of arrows in which the unit is supposed to walk up and engage the enemy

No I was not. These are some of the most frustrating problems in the game and I can assure you all that its far from specific just to me. There have been a number of posts regarding the very problems I listed here on various forums.


Strange, when i tell my archers to attack, they walk within range and.....open fire.


I've only ever needed to press a button once.

Try crossbowmen then but I am not at all surprised Lusted. Sometimes I wonder if we are playing the same game.




Yeah, missile units dont skirmish once they've used their missiles, as there's no point as they dont have any missiles left. Otherwise all units would be able to skirmish.

and whats the point pray tell for peasant archers to engage heavy infantry or Turkomans to sit around and be attacked by heavy cav. They certainly can outrun them so why not avoid them. Besides the skirmish button is still lit up.

and yea as the OP said toggling run/walk doesnt work for grouped units.

[Whacker]

Omisan, you're just going to have to get in the habit of quickly tapping the "R" key after issuing a new move order. I got used to that in RTW... Just make it a habit to do (when you intend to) and it'll get a bit better with time.

As for the firing animation, I share your pain. When I click the Halt/Stop button I want my units to friggin' STOP! right then and there, whatever they were doing. No shooting, no moving another half-map forward, no firing that pretty trebuchet no matter HOW bad you want to, STOP what you are doing! :grin:

[Hochmeister]

Omisan I know exactly what you mean. There are quite a few issues with the command buttons and the walk/run is only one of them

eg ever use attack with missile unit. Instead of walking within range and then firing they walk right up to the enemy.

I can confirm this one as well. It seems to be random though?? I always single click on the unit to attack and if out of range it will sometimes keep walking if not stopped.

[Hollerbach]

Imagine if you are a King on the battlefield and you order your archers to cease fire...and then you see a bunch of them that are still firing long after the order was given. They would lose their heads. :smash:

All strategy games featuring friendly fire that I have played before had a "hold your fire" command that worked immediately, not 10 seconds later or when the unit felt like it.



Gah! Stick to AOE then! The thing about TW is it gives you much more of the feel of a large battle, warts and all than most 'other strategy games'. You don't have a radio link to all your troops. Imagine that King giving his order to cease fire. Do you think the peasant hundreds of metres away in the middle of a noisy battle is going to hear him immediately? Do you also complain that your cav don't always charge the unit you told them to or don't withdraw the second they are ordered? These are features, not bugs.

As for the other issues mentioned in this thread I havn't seen them myself. My archers behave as I would expect (I've played mainly as England so far, so I've used them a fair bit). Buttons pressed in pause mode aren't too reliable (i've noticed this mainly with the Schiltrom button, you have to press it while not paused to have an effect) but once you have that first head scratch and realise this is the case it's very easy to workaround.

There are things that need fixing in M2TW, that's for sure. But the battle interface is not high on the priority list IMNSHO. A few tweaks might improve things but it functions well enough at present. Of course there will always be things to complain about, if one is so inclined :shame:

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Gah! Stick to AOE then! The thing about TW is it gives you much more of the feel of a large battle, warts and all than most 'other strategy games'. You don't have a radio link to all your troops. Imagine that King giving his order to cease fire. Do you think the peasant hundreds of metres away in the middle of a noisy battle is going to hear him immediately? Do you also complain that your cav don't always charge the unit you told them to or don't withdraw the second they are ordered? These are features, not bugs.


So its because of the fact that the medieval armies didn't have radio's that the command buttons often don't work.:oops:

Silly me.

[Hollerbach]

No it means your definition of 'working' needs to ensure you don't call a feature a bug. So archers finishing firing their volley is not a bug it is a feature. Not working the way AEO does is not a bug. Buttons not working while being paused is a bug, though a minor one.

Units not continually running with the run button is a matter of taste. I would not like it to work as the OP would, since running my troops is a special fatigue causing command that I want to control specifically each time. I prefer the current system to the one the OP suggests, not just that it's good enough to not warrant attention. Perhaps the ideal would be an preference option such as "keep run on until switched off". But there are gazillions of little options like this that could be included and they can't all be. The devs had to make a call about what they thought the most number of players would prefer.

Archers now keep FAW on after disengaging from melee which has not been the case in any previous TW game. This is a great interface improvement, and everything else pretty much works as it always has, so for a TW vet this is the best interface yet.

There are big problems in M2TW that really do need attention (though by all reports they are hopefully being addressed in the soon to be realesed patch, it remains to be seen if this is the case) I just don't think these small trifling things are a serious issue.

[Omisan]

Gah! Stick to AOE then! The thing about TW is it gives you much more of the feel of a large battle, warts and all than most 'other strategy games'. You don't have a radio link to all your troops. Imagine that King giving his order to cease fire. Do you think the peasant hundreds of metres away in the middle of a noisy battle is going to hear him immediately? Do you also complain that your cav don't always charge the unit you told them to or don't withdraw the second they are ordered? These are features, not bugs.



Some of those "other strategy games" are much more realistic and avanced than M2:TW. Try Combat Mission.

Come on now...if this was actually a "realistic" feature of the game, don't you think it would be applied to everything, not just a few annoying circumstances?

Besides, IRL, archers would usually be close to the army commander and within reach of shouted orders, trumpets, flags or arm signs.

[Hollerbach]

As I say, the issue is that one persons annoying is another persons preference. I hesitate to say 'realistic' since trying to determine how well a computer game matches 'reality' is enormously subjective and there are many who would fight in HTH combat to the death over it. What is important is the the feel of the game is coherent and conveys the grandure of what is being simulated.

We could argue all day about how long an archers would 'really' take to get an order from the commander of a force numberng in the tens of thousands (which is the scale the game is emmulating, even if it dosn't render that many men). Eventually you would lose, since history abounds with battles won and lost on the inability to communicate rapidly to an army of this scale, but that's not the point. What matters is that the unit response is consistant and feels right. To me, it's pretty close. I'm not quite sure what it is you would apply your improved 'realism' setting to but the present behaviour of cavalry and nobles charging at a whim, a delay in troop disengaging, archers finishing a volley when told to stop firing ... these are all actions that contribute to a coherent sense of imperfect control on a muddy, noisy battlefield.

[JJx]

Happens from time to time. Some missiles units will start waking toward the ennemy lines without apparent reason but suicidal wishes.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Units not continually running with the run button is a matter of taste. I would not like it to work as the OP would, since running my troops is a special fatigue causing command that I want to control specifically each time. I prefer the current system to the one the OP suggests, not just that it's good enough to not warrant attention. Perhaps the ideal would be an preference option such as "keep run on until switched off". But there are gazillions of little options like this that could be included and they can't all be. The devs had to make a call about what they thought the most number of players would prefer.


In every case the command buttons work as toggle switches however the fact that the walk/run requires the button to remain depressed is unusual and contradicts what the the manual says. With grouped units the action is unpredictable as at times it behaves as expected and at other times not.



Archers now keep FAW on after disengaging from melee which has not been the case in any previous TW game. This is a great interface improvement, and everything else pretty much works as it always has, so for a TW vet this is the best interface yet.


Fine, my complaint is that once missile ammo is used up skirmish is automatically disabled (for whatever reason they thought to include this feature) although the skirmish button remains lit up.



This is a great interface improvement, and everything else pretty much works as it always has, so for a TW vet this is the best interface yet.

The buttons in many cases are non responsive. I am not talking of archers finishing firing here. It seems only the centre of the button has a active region. It could be hardware related but I doubt it. My opinion and that of many other vet players beg to differ from yours.



There are big problems in M2TW that really do need attention (though by all reports they are hopefully being addressed in the soon to be realesed patch, it remains to be seen if this is the case) I just don't think these small trifling things are a serious issue.

What you consider as trifling others regard as much more serious. I would certainly consider it a serious issue and on the top 10 things that need to be urgently addressed, others may not.

[sapi]

I agree with the op - command buttons are simply insanely stupid.

Add this to units wanting to pick their own targets when ordered around in a group and you simply have to pause and order one by one, enable run again and unpause to get anywhere :inquisitive:

[Whacker]

I guess I'll weigh in here as well.

My thoughts on the command and control interface are that I do NOT want simulated "battlefield delays" as suggested earlier. While that is historically true, I prefer to think of is as the game is omnicient and knew that I was going to tell me cav to stop a few seconds earlier, and the little pixelated general relayed his command appropriately which took effect when I actually clicked "halt". :grin: I think that adding this kind of "feature" would be disasterous for gameplay, esp. for the MP community, because it then simply becomes a crapshoot. You've got no guaranteed control over your forces and troops, and you'd actually have to pay attention to each individual unit with orders to make sure they're following them properly. One unit that doesn't respond properly to your commands can ruin your whole day in a battle, plain and simple. Right now it's bad enough. I'm not going to issue orders then sit there and stare at them until I verify that they're doing what I said to do, I expect that they're going to accurately execute the orders that I've given. I guess that this is one level of "simulated chaos and uncertainty" that we'd be all better off without, IMO. Honestly it'd be frustrating enough to make me shelve/sell the game.

Touching on the point of archers... Again as per above if I want them to stop shooting then they'd better damn well STOP!, even if it's in the middle of a firing animation. Another side but related issue here is archer cohesion, in that they don't have any. It seems that each man fires as and when he sees fit, instead of the unit firing as a group. I submit that this is not historically accurate, archers were for the most part trained and trained well, and took orders and fired as groups, not as individuals. It'd be a lot easier to gauge when to tell the archer unit to stop shooting if they were firing as a whole unit, instead of haphazard with every man for himself.

Cheers!