Thoughts after a few hundred turns...

[KarstenChu]

After having some trouble with stability in .8, I waited for .81 to come out. Having played about 250 turns in .81a, I am pleased to say that I have had only one or two CTD's and that both of these were one timers that disappeared after reloading. It looks like EB is being ironed out *very* nicely.

While waiting for EB to come out, I was playing a version of RTR, which I think includes Darth Vader's Formations mod or something. The only real problem I have with EB is that there aren't any group formations included, especially not for the Romans. I should've taken some pictures of my attempts to form the quincunx, they are pretty shameful. I read in another thread (one that I believe was locked due to it degenerating into a bunch of hate) that EB included group formations? Is this true? I think adding a manipular formation for the Romani would be extremely helpful.

Another formation related problem is the AI's treatment of formations. Having faced the Aedui, Carthaginians and Eleutheroi extensively, I've concluded that they don't know how to form their army in anything more complicated than a really really long single line. I figured, "But hey, maybe that's just how they did it." But then it seems that the AI has a lot of trouble forming a long line. Sometimes the individual units just march around in random directions and never coalesce to fight as a whole. Sometimes sallying for the attack them helps them regain a sense of unity...but sometimes it does not.

Another observation I have is that Carthage seems to be not at all aggressive during wartime. I initiated the Punic War script (which is a really cool addition) by taking Messana and there seemed to be little response from Carthage. In other mods and I think previous versions of EB, Carthage responded aggressively with naval blockades, which is one of the reasons I was so loathe to attack them. I believe it was in .8 that I experienced for the first time, and to my great surprise, a successful campaign of naval invasions by those filthy Punic pirates where they took not only Karali but Alalia from me. This time around, Carthage seems to have a faint shadow of a fleet that didn't even attack my one unit of Pente-something or other boats.

I don't think Carthage's passivity was confined to the high seas, either. Usually I see Carthage rampage through Iberia and about the time I make my way to Tolosa, the Carthaginians are either besieging or have already tamed Emporion. I just went back to toggle_fow and I see that Carthage has one full stack army that is basically guarding the Rock of Gibraltar. Now that I think about it, I recall that in my .8 campaign, Carthage had conquered almost all of North Africa, making it ridiculously difficult to dislodge them, even having already taken their core cities. In my .81a campaign, they seem resigned to their initial territories sans the ones I took from them.

I might be the only one noticing this, but please let me know if anyone confirms Carthage's passivity. I'm playing on Very Hard Campaign difficulty.

I'm also playing on Medium battle difficulty and I noticed that the guardian cavalry for Carthaginian generals are invincible. They simply walked their way through three units of phalangitai...killing and routing all of them in a row. Don't even get me started on Iberian Assault Infantry, two units of which single handedly stymied an assault by 2,000 of my troops :furious3:

I hope that those people responsible for Carthage don't take offense at what I wrote...those have just been my observations so far.

The skins are gorgeous, guys. Absolutely gorgeous. I like all of them - the smelly barbarians to my Consular cavalry. The Carthaginian skins look especially cool.

I'm ranting, plus I have to read some stuff for my medieval history class :ballchain: So let me know what you all think! :bow:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi KarstenChu,
Sadly I don't know anything about the Carthaginian passivity, yet I think I can help you, if you have BI, with the formations! All you have to do, if you have Barbarian Invasion, is follow the instructions on how to install this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=80694) great modification. Sorry about my inabliity to help you with the inactivity of Carthage, good luck, cheers!

[EoE]

I went from a Roman vh/m 0.8 to a Roman m/m 0.81 campaign and noticed a dramatic difference in the fight Carthage put up. It might just be my whimp settings, but they really were a push-over.

As for barbarian hordes I have noticed two kinds of behaviour. The "long line" and a mass assault on a single point or two in my line. Actually I'm impressed by the way the AI holds a few reserves back to deal with my flanking attacks.

Oh, one last thing. Not to thread-jack, but is there any way to change the difficulty of an ongoing campaign?

rgds/EoE

[KarstenChu]

Hmm, I don't have BI though. I did see that the TBS existed though. Thanks for trying :)

Yea, I've played about 20 more turns and Carthage is only attacking a rebel city with woefully too few forces. Both Lusotanna and Carthage have full stacks that have sat next to one of their main cities for about a century now. I'll try initiating another war with Carthage and see if that spurs them on to doing something.

[Watchman]

The formation files from the TBs ought to work without BI, shouldn't they ? Unless there's something involving the shieldwall ability that messes things up, anyway.

[Tiberius Nero]

There is indeed a problem with pasivity of small factions especially; it is very strange because on the one hand the AI is known to attack rebels with undersized armies and losing all the time, but on the other hand, on VH, several of the passive factions (I have yet to see in my campaign Pontus, Casse, Sauromatae, Getai and Sweboz do anything although I have seen them expand in other people's campaigns, if moderately) don't dare to attack the neighbouring rebels even when they have amassed 2 full stacks; they just sit there happily in their own territories, goddamn hippies. :hippie:

[Dooz]

Oh, one last thing. Not to thread-jack, but is there any way to change the difficulty of an ongoing campaign?

rgds/EoE

Here ya go.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=448

Definately play at least on H campaign, and don't feel the need to wield full stacks. Having a few less units can make a big difference in the challenge you'll face against Carthies or Gauls or anyone else.

[HFox]

Afternoon

Have been playing 0.81a for a while (all week) now as KH and have one ctd to report right at the start that i couldnt reproduce. No other mods bar EB, no BI.

Settings as H/M whereas before was playing in 0.81 as H/H but again with little or no ctds.

I think I may have been lucky as to when i downloaded the 'a' fix as i didnt jump in straight away but i used the auto patcher with no apparent problem..

Have to report having great fun, and being challenged though maybe I should have gone for VH as Epiros has been sitting on a few full stacks and ignoring me but then again others aren't :)

One thing i am excited by are the new Lusitanian unit cards. They look great and have inspired me to play this faction for my next campaign.

Many thanks

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

I would like to join the choir about Carthage's inactivity. In my 6-7 campaigns so far they never did anything more than conquer north Africa. They don't attank in Sicily, they don't attack in Iberia (although they keep making new units) and they prefer to attack the Ptolemaioi for Kyrene (if the Ptolies haven't been streamrolled by AS by then), which is not even in their victory conditions.

[Intranetusa]

I'm playing Rome at VH/M and I'd have to agree. I'm at the year 250 BCE, and Carthage hasn't even conquered a single piece of land in Spain yet. So far, they've only conquered like 2 North African territories.

Why does the new .81 Carthage suck, while old .80 Carthage was so much better?

[antisocialmunky]

I agree, the only three factions that I've seen in a very agressive way in the early game are the Romani(And then only against the Gauls normally), Sweboz(into rebels), and Seleukia(If they don't implode).

Infact, Carthage seems to not be able to reinforce its armies in Sicily very well. In my KH game, they took southern Italy and are now running around with nothing but skirmishers and 1-10 sized units of Caeteratii in that part of the world.

Also, an interesting observation: In that same KH campaign. The Romans and their Carthaginian allies have been in a 20 year war with Epeiros and I've driven them out of Illycia. I recently sent a diplomat over to check out what was happening and Epeiros has only three family members and 90 men of a Phalangite unit holding both Arpi and Taros. The Romans on the other hand have been continually building nothing but elite infantry in Italia and have started a second and third war against the Aedui and Avernii. Neither Carthage or Rome seem to care or try to take out Epeiros...

[KarstenChu]

Hehehe phew, so it's not just me! It seems that those militant Carthaginians have mended their ways.

I believe I'm in 220B.C. now and I am the only player who has destroyed a faction so far! That's really hard to get used to when in other mods you pretty much get spammed by "Faction destroyed" messages later in the game and are left with basically the three successor kingdoms and Rome (if you are playing Rome that is).

As for TBS working without BI, I don't think that is the case. I tried a version with a copy of EB and it didn't have any visible effect on group formations of AI or available group formations for the player. Aside from that, all it did was cause lots of CTD's. But then again I probably didn't install it correctly and whatnot. Let us know if someone has it working with non-BI EB.

If anyone knows how to, please make a Roman quincunx for EB .81! Dear god, mine looks so awful...everytime I face the Gauls they must be laughing at my ridiculous formation.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

I agree, the only three factions that I've seen in a very agressive way in the early game are the Romani(And then only against the Gauls normally), Sweboz(into rebels), and Seleukia(If they don't implode).

Infact, Carthage seems to not be able to reinforce its armies in Sicily very well. In my KH game, they took southern Italy and are now running around with nothing but skirmishers and 1-10 sized units of Caeteratii in that part of the world.

Also, an interesting observation: In that same KH campaign. The Romans and their Carthaginian allies have been in a 20 year war with Epeiros and I've driven them out of Illycia. I recently sent a diplomat over to check out what was happening and Epeiros has only three family members and 90 men of a Phalangite unit holding both Arpi and Taros. The Romans on the other hand have been continually building nothing but elite infantry in Italia and have started a second and third war against the Aedui and Avernii. Neither Carthage or Rome seem to care or try to take out Epeiros...

Umm that is indeed interesting, Im playing a KH campaign and Rome made peace with EVERY FACTION...going only after the rebels...almost like if they were just waiting to make contact with me and declare war as soon as I took a province next to them. BASTARDS! They never fought the Epeiros or any of the Gauls !!! NEVER!!!!

Now about Carthage ...as we speak they are sieging CAPUA...with a 95 % of taking it. Go figure

[mcantu]

I'm playing as Rome with the BI exe. I've had numerous Carthaginian 1/2 stacks land at Capua on H/M

[Elminster12]

I mostly see every faction except the Getai do well...most of the time. They just never get started it seems, and I think it's because their starting armies aren't placed optimally. I've seen Carthage go bonkers on Sicily(helloooo Syrakousai!) but most of the time, they do seem....passive. I wonder why?

[Constantine the Great]

In my KH campaign, I've noticed Carthage's passivness as well. Just minor note for me though. My real issue was that Macedon and the Seluekids were pushovers. I pushed the Macdeonians back to one northern territory in 10 years. :inquisitive: Not something I expected to see.


And then the Seluekids. Despite beating the living hell out of the Ptolies, they kep one crappy army in Asia Minor that horribley weakend itself by running around sieging every rebel town in sight. By the time I arrived, they had a 5 units left, hadn't built any more, and got beaten accordingly. Now I've been entrenched in Sardis, Ipsos, Halikarnassos and Pergamon for a decade, with no Seluekid response. :sweatdrop:

[HFox]

The selucids keep sending big stacks at me, including the Agrespides (sp) in metal veils, feck those bastards are tough. They generally chew through three of my units before I wipe them out.....and I have yet to see one break!

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The selucids keep sending big stacks at me, including the Agrespides (sp) in metal veils, feck those bastards are tough. They generally chew through three of my units before I wipe them out.....and I have yet to see one break!
They can break though:
https://img95.imageshack.us/img95/6700/maa041zc9.th.jpg (https://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maa041zc9.jpg)
My first and only encounter with those guys, and man are they tough. So tough that them running away in terror was good enough to take a picture of. Seleukeia fell in that battle (c175BC).

[Janius]

I think Cathage's passivity depends from campaign to campaign.
In my current campaign they attacked me in 265BC, without obvious reason (haven't invaded Sicily yet). Every odd year they're sending a half stack across the seas, landing it near Capua.

In other campaings they just sit there. I think its caused by the rebelships popping up. They destroy or deplete their navy and
Cathage (and other factions) don't tend to built up a navy again. Causing them to be "passive".
They usually aren't that passive on the mainland, just give them time, and they will expand.

[Dooz]

If only there was a way to make AI fleets cost less to build and maintain, maybe even make it easier somehow for the AI to deal with rebels. A few early setbacks and an AI faction's destiny is sealed it seems. In my current Sweboz campaign, Pontos was wiped out within the first 5 years. Not a usual occurence in my experience so far, but still.

[antisocialmunky]

The selucids keep sending big stacks at me, including the Agrespides (sp) in metal veils, feck those bastards are tough. They generally chew through three of my units before I wipe them out.....and I have yet to see one break!
They seem to only start with one of thsoe guys and its the only one I've seen. It caused my only defeat by single handedly swinging the tide of battle. So sad that there's only 30 left now.

[Makr]

maybe even make it easier somehow for the AI to deal with rebels

They should remove the rebels altogether. That way factions will only fight other factions....and guess what, Carthage won't mess around with stupid rebels, they'll come straight after Rome....same with the Gauls.

Besides, it never feels like you accomplish anything when you take a rebel town.

[Fondor_Yards]

They should remove the rebels altogether. That way factions will only fight other factions....and guess what, Carthage won't mess around with stupid rebels, they'll come straight after Rome....same with the Gauls.

Besides, it never feels like you accomplish anything when you take a rebel town.

They aren't just "rebels", they are powerful kingdoms and states in their own right, just that there wasn't room for them in the game. They should be hard to take/kill. Syracuse was able to hold down Carthage for a very long time in Sicily, it shouldn't be a push over. Same goes for a dozen other "rebel" towns.

[Makr]

Okay, I hear what you're saying. Guess I shouldn't feel bad when I lost almost an entire legion trying to take Segesta from a bunch of 'rebels' :no:

[KarstenChu]

Just in reference to what I was talking about before...Carthage is back...and pissed. The Sweboz and Carthage both began attacking me within a few turns of each other and I noticed that Carthage took a city in Iberia - holy crap!

Question to EB team members : Is there a trigger that cues Carthaginian hostility when Rome expands westward to a certain point?

I've said this before but I gotta say it again - the Carthaginian generals are horrendously powerful and seem to be the best horseback warriors in the world. Apparently they can charge across a bridge into a wall of spearpoints with no damage. They are also able to just push their way, from a walk mind you, through an established phalanx.

[CountArach]

Question to EB team members : Is there a trigger that cues Carthaginian hostility when Rome expands westward to a certain point?

I'm not a team member but I can tell yuou that if Rome takes Messana, or stays in the territory that Messana is loacted in, then Carthage will declare war.

[antisocialmunky]

They aren't just "rebels", they are powerful kingdoms and states in their own right, just that there wasn't room for them in the game. They should be hard to take/kill. Syracuse was able to hold down Carthage for a very long time in Sicily, it shouldn't be a push over. Same goes for a dozen other "rebel" towns.

Syracuse is still alive and kicking in my KH campaign though the Carthaginians finally managed to ship in a 75% stack of Iberian Infantry. I stupidly sent a lone ship with my best son-in-law and a 10 unit stack only to have it sunk in an against odds victory by a Syracuse fleet :(.

Also, on a funner note: A little update of my KH campaign. Rome finally went rabid and is predictably steam rolling the Gauls with double silver chevron Triarii. They also started sending stack's Epeiro's way. Pity they only send two to three unit stacks and try and starve the Epeirotes out. Oh yeah, the Epeirotes also managed to get two units of elephants and all the autocalc sieges have given them a triple silver chevron unit of Phalangites... lol. All the while the 5+ units of Triarii with their Extraordinary friends are drinking wine in Rome. The Sabeans are driving Big Grey out of Arabia and Seleukia's elite Argrsypidai stack is wandering around Jordan aimlessly.

[HFox]

They can break though:
https://img95.imageshack.us/img95/6700/maa041zc9.th.jpg (https://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maa041zc9.jpg)
My first and only encounter with those guys, and man are they tough. So tough that them running away in terror was good enough to take a picture of. Seleukeia fell in that battle (c175BC).

I have just broke a unit of them as well, they held up two of my units in a town for what seemd like nearly quarter of the game.....but in the end they broke.

......they started with a six man unit and broke when they were reduced to just 3!!!!

[Fondor_Yards]

Just in reference to what I was talking about before...Carthage is back...and pissed. The Sweboz and Carthage both began attacking me within a few turns of each other and I noticed that Carthage took a city in Iberia - holy crap!

Question to EB team members : Is there a trigger that cues Carthaginian hostility when Rome expands westward to a certain point?

I've said this before but I gotta say it again - the Carthaginian generals are horrendously powerful and seem to be the best horseback warriors in the world. Apparently they can charge across a bridge into a wall of spearpoints with no damage. They are also able to just push their way, from a walk mind you, through an established phalanx.

Heh you should try fighting the Steppe Bodyguard Units *Parthia, Sarmtatians, Saka, and Armenia*, those guys are crazy. In my saka campain, I can defend a city from a 10+ unit seleucid army with just 2 generals and their guards. This is what they look like.

Saka- https://www.europabarbarorum.com/p/3D/saka-cats.jpg
Parthia- https://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ParthianGrivpanvar_2.jpg
Armenia- https://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HyeSparapet2.jpg
Sarmatia- https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/FondorYards/steppe_cavalry_aeldaryaembaltae_INF.jpg

[Watchman]

Word. I just tried a Pahlav campaign out of curiosity, and proceeded to promptly blitz that Gava-Maszakaszasomething rebel town right to the north (well, it was that or taking on the Big Grey...). There's a big stack of assorted horse-archers and those pesky noble types with lances wandering around the province, which I decided to wait out on that one river crossing. Turned out the faction heir's Givpanvar bodyguards had no real trouble holding the entire damn horde at bay on one ford while the old greybeard faction leader calmly fought his way over the smaller bunch at the other and took them in the rear...

Those be some hard dudes, mon.

[Janius]

About the ai passivity, this is what happened in 254BC (Romani VH-H BI-exe):

https://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6114/254bcjr9.jpg

[antisocialmunky]

Nice, I've had that happen to me in BI-XGM. BTW - I love how you mapped out Central Asia.