View Full Version : Russia and Poland
I was just wondering how you would defeat Poland as Russia.
I am not having trouble with Poland I am just wanting to know what you would do in my place.
Agent Smith
03-09-2007, 14:09
You should read my post in the Russia guide section. It gives you a good starting point :2thumbsup:
My most succesful tactic to date has been finding sharp, pointy, Russian things, and pushing them into soft Polish people. Worked a treat.
boyar-Sons were the real deciding factor - I found Alexandrian tactics worked well - create a spear-line, with archery backup, and calvalry on the wings, slightly back from the front line.
March into archery range.
Wait for the Poles to engage your spears.
Hit them in the flank & rear with calvalry.
One key tip - when charging their calvalry, if you have 2 calvalry units on the wing (which you probably do), tell the nearest to charge directly. Tell the 'outside' unit to march move behind the enemy. Wait for them to form up, then charge. Much more effective than sending 2 calvalry units into the flank.
Only difficulty I had was with Polish Nobs, and they were never deployed in sufficient force or intelligence to cause any real problems.
boyar-Sons were the real deciding factor
Ah, Boyar Sons where would we be without you?
HoreTore
03-09-2007, 14:37
Aaargh! The polish nobles! The single unit I have yet to counter effectively! In my last russian campaign, they usually had 5 or more of them in each stack. I'm having the same problem with the hungarians now, I just lost over half my army in kiev because of them, the rest of their stack was town milita. They're fast, they have deadly javelins, and they fight EXTREMELY good in close combat. I sent my 7 experience general, one unit of alans and 2 units of merchant cavalry after a depleted unit of 8(!) polish nobles. I lost 15 men! Outnumbered 100:8, and I lost 15 men!
The best way to counter them IMO, is to get them passive, and then shoot them up. Unfortunately, they're never passive... When you go up against them, expect casaulties. There is no way to deal with them and only suffer a minimum of casualties. With units like crusader knights, you can bang them from multiple sides at once and with a couple of units, and the unit is gone with next to no casaulties. Try the same against the nobles, and you'll suffer at least 5 times as many casualties. The only advice I have, is to cover your losses. When going on a campaign, add a couple of extra units to deal with the losses...
I was just wondering how you would defeat Poland as Russia.
I am not having trouble with Poland I am just wanting to know what you would do in my place.
build loads of forestmen and auto-resolve ;)
:laugh4:
build loads of forestmen and auto-resolve ;)
:laugh4:
You mean Woodsmen(I think).
I took on most everyone with armies of mostly kazaks and a few boyar sons. If a general is available, they help quite a bit.
The best complement to horse archers is usually more horse archers, but having a few heavy cav or jav cav to deal with the enemy's heavy cav can help conserve your arrows.
Who are better Dismouted Druzhina or Dismounted Boyer Sons? They're exactly the same stat-wise, who do you prefer?
Who are better Dismouted Druzhina or Dismounted Boyer Sons? They're exactly the same stat-wise, who do you prefer?
In my campaign I never bothered much with either. If you're gonna fight with horse archers you want lots of horse archers. That many more arrows coming from that many more different directions.
Agent Smith
03-09-2007, 18:41
Who are better Dismouted Druzhina or Dismounted Boyer Sons? They're exactly the same stat-wise, who do you prefer?
I rarely use either as well, moreso because I really on a spearman infantry backbone. When it comes time to implement some heavy infantry into the mix, dismounted Dvor are a better choice.
In my bit of play as Russia (I agree, Polish Nobles are a pain!) I focussed on HA. The way I handled PN was to sic 2-3 kazaks on them from different sides. The PN would charge one, the kazaks would run, the other(s) would follow the PN shooting them in their backs. Takes a while, but you wear them down. Just have to be wary of edges because they can kill a trapped unit fast.
If you don't have enough kazaks, you have a problem. (Darned Pollacks! Hardheaded, charge-straight-at-the-tanks mentality! Wait, Russians do that too!)
HoreTore
03-09-2007, 20:15
In my campaign I never bothered much with either. If you're gonna fight with horse archers you want lots of horse archers. That many more arrows coming from that many more different directions.
Yes, but you'll need them in a siege.
In my bit of play as Russia (I agree, Polish Nobles are a pain!) I focussed on HA. The way I handled PN was to sic 2-3 kazaks on them from different sides. The PN would charge one, the kazaks would run, the other(s) would follow the PN shooting them in their backs. Takes a while, but you wear them down. Just have to be wary of edges because they can kill a trapped unit fast.
If you don't have enough kazaks, you have a problem. (Darned Pollacks! Hardheaded, charge-straight-at-the-tanks mentality! Wait, Russians do that too!)
Yes, you want to create the dreaded horse archer "pocket". As the enemy advance the HAs imediately in front of them give ground while the others hold their ground and pepper them from the back and sides. It helps if you move your whole line of HAs back for a while so that they are not getting involved with the enemy's slower moving foot units. (By involved I mean targeting or being targeted by enemy foot archers.)
Boyar sons/generals should be positioned far enough back so that the pocket can form, but then stop. Use your heavy cav to hold the enemy in the pocket by charging them from the front while you have multiple units of HA's shoot 'em in the back and sides. This is a much faster way of dealing with enemy heavies than dealing them with HAs alone, which leaves you lots of arrows to go deal with the foot units.
Yes, but you'll need them in a siege.
With an HA army you're usually going to starve 'em out. They also have a very high tendency to sally early or relieve because the AI battle strength calculator rates kazaks so low.
If you just need someone to push a ram I'd either go with Dismounted Dvors or cheap mercs hired on the spot.
If you just need someone to push a ram I'd either go with Dismounted Dvors or cheap mercs hired on the spot.
Ewe! Push a ram!
Just sucker them out and slaughter them, then ride in proudly inviting the ladies to share your saddle.
Czar Alexsandr
03-10-2007, 08:32
Counter to Polish Nobles.... well... while being a verrry good unit and a fine enemy.. I find Kazacks can outshoot them easily. Lol. But it's not easy using them to counter them. I'm just saying it can be done.
Well as a avid Russia player I find that dealing with the Poles is a matter of containment. I want him to stay in that little Poland area and not do a heck of a whole lot more. I take the Russian cities for one... Ryazan, Moscow, Smolensk. Then I take Lithuania's Riga and Vilnius. Kiev I need for ego reasons. :laugh4: It is the Kievian Rus right? Lol. Well. It also gives you an excellent Black Sea port. From then on I keep Huns In Iasi (if I don't take it.) And Poles in Krakow and Thorn. All part of my strategy.
Now tactically, in battle.. I find myself using the poor early infantry and a good mix of cavalry. I use a lot of Kazacks, who are very underrated. The fast-moving trait seems to be handy. Of course Generals Bodyguard, Druzhina, and Boyar Sons should be included in a quality army. Later though I improve both cavalry and infantry. When I can make regular spearmen I make a quite a few to bolster existing armies in my three hot spots. Vilnius, Kiev, and Riga. I've been making Woodsmen at this time too and will make more to be the offensive vs the spears deffensive. Dismounted Boyar Sons are good. And they look cool. I use them as a Intermediate defensive-offensive unit. Very flexable. However if you build the last lv of Archery range you get Dismounted Dvor that have the same ability but with the additonal bonus of firing a very powerful bow.
Ultimately I think the goal with Russia is to beat back the Poles, possibly the Hungarians and Byzantines too.. enough to not have to worry about Catholic-Orthodox front out west and can concentrate on the arrival and tedious removal of the Mongols. :whip:
Ewe! Push a ram!
Just sucker them out and slaughter them, then ride in proudly inviting the ladies to share your saddle.
If I catch a city with just a few defenders I'll usually go ahead and assault it instead of waiting 7 or 8 turns.
But generally foot units can be hired on the spot instead of slowing down your horse army. Slav mercenaries do just as good a job pushing a ram as anyone. Plus I'd rather have a few more Kazaks in my army than anything on foot.
You can actually start the siege and order your rams built with nothing but cavalry and hire your mercs on the next turn (or have some spear militia come from a nearby city.) If you have a full 20 unit army, you can split out a few of your units even after you have started the siege to make room for your ram pushers.
You need to be careful because Kazaks and walls are a dangerous mix.
Dead_Like_Me
03-11-2007, 21:13
well here is my save with Russia , its not the best but it show how fast you can
do it :D. the money problem was because i started popping army at the 50 turn
and for a new strategy i work on.
the picture was taken after a battle which i give credit to for making me really
enjoy it :) and even some challenge for me. it was a battle against the king
of Poland and a huge army he had. now its one city before their end and
i can officially call it the grand Duetch of Vladimir.
https://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7379/russiamm7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Good Job on that Dead_like_me.
Though to the OP i would say that your best bet is to use HA en mass to take out their armies. Just retreat once you are out of arrows and then Rinse and repeat. Only other note would be to get Hungary on your side and bribe them off to attack Poland. The HRE works just as well but my preference is Hungary
Dead_Like_Me
03-13-2007, 11:33
in my game poland had alliance with Denmark and with Hungary and HRE.
Denmark had alliance with Brittany and Scotland.
Brittany failed in a siege on Oslo then Denmark tried a huge attack but failed
after that the English turn back to their Island and Denmark bagged to cease-
fire since Poland was lying in ruins. the holy roman empire tried their luck but
they lost as well and they are the best of my enemies :D.
usually i go on massive money but i tried a new way using Russia's mobility
with horses to move on several fronts at the same time , soon I will attack the
turks from the north and then after finishing Poland its a full scale attack on
Hungary who as well did a stupid thing as allying Poland.
in this game at first i though of gathering the lands of Russia and moving south
with all power but when i saw Poland took to many cities that fast :D
well i just couldn't stay and watch them.
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