Banquo's Ghost
03-10-2007, 11:26
Poor old Devonshire is having a bit of trouble (http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2344773.ece) with the tenantry.
Time was, His Grace could shoot the Great Unwashed for less or even better, hunt the fellows with dogs and then wipe the blood on his daughter's faces before tea. Then they would mutter a lot in their beer, rise in fury, steal some flintlocks and under the fey leadership of a romantic who got arrested three weeks before anything happened, betray each other, get massacred a bit and be home for supper and potato water.
The good old days.
Anyway, does anyone think Devonshire should give up his rights (assuming the old fool James didn't actually sign them over twice, which is entirely likely)? It'd be a bit of a blow - I fish that stream occasionally myself, and then maybe the rebels would come after my family's rights.
Anglers invoke King James in battle to fish Duke of Devonshire's river
By David McKittrick, Ireland Correspondent
Published: 10 March 2007
It could be shrugged off as an argument over fish, but in fact it is a classic dispute over ancient rights and local pleasures, over privileges and prerogatives, which stretches back centuries into the Celtic mist.
A few unemployed southern Irish anglers are taking on a scion of Britain's high nobility in the person of the 12th Duke of Devonshire, Peregrine Andrew Morny Cavendish, friend of the Prince of Wales and inheritor of fabulous wealth. And some prize salmon are at stake.
The resonances echo down the centuries: James I makes an appearance in the legal dispute, as does Magna Carta, Henry VIII and Sir Walter Raleigh. So, in more modern times, do Fred Astaire and Tiger Woods.
The origins of the tussle go back a long, long way. It centres on properties and rights that the Devonshires have held for 400 years or so. Among many other assets the family owns Lismore castle in Waterford and fishing rights on the river Blackwater in Cork.
For a time in the 16th century, the castle belonged to Sir Walter Raleigh, but it has been in the possession of the Cavendishes for centuries since. The salmon fishing rights were also established centuries ago, and they have been unsuccessfully challenged many times since.
In a dispute over the fishing rights a few years ago, some locals deliberately went fishing on the river without permission, and were subsequently convicted of trespassing. An appeal has been lodged.
A case concerning the rights was heard in the House of Lords comparatively recently - that is, in 1882 - and was won by the Cavendishes. King James I apparently made a grant in 1613, starting the whole thing off.
But Oliver Casey, a councillor in Youghal Town Council, has unearthed in the dusty archives a document marked Folio 1648 which, he says, quite clearly indicates that the King gave the rights to the mayor in 1609.
This, he argues, is the most ancient of all grants and should prevail. In any case, Mr Casey adds: "I can't understand how a person could own waters like this. I think the Duke should relinquish his rights."
The Duke, however, is adamant that the 1613 patent awarded to the Earl of Cork, one of his ancestors, is the operative document. Mr Casey speaks wistfully of a legal challenge but says the council does not have the funds to mount one.
The Duke spends some time at the castle, although he lives in Derbyshire where his art collection includes works by Canaletto, Gainsborough, Renoir, Raphael and Rembrandt.
He said in a recent interview: "Naturally, this huge castle belonging to an English Duke isn't really ideal for a republic. I'm confident that the relationship with the local community is good, although we're absentee which is not ideal. Twenty or 30 years ago it was more difficult."
At its annual conference in Dublin last month Sinn Fein specified that the Duke's fishing rights should be abolished, demanding that property owned by "British aristocratic landlords" should be seized by compulsory purchase orders.
Locally however, those involved in challenging the rights are adamant that the Devonshires are a popular family and that no element of anti-British feeling comes into the issue.
"There's no ill-feeling against him or anything like that," Mr Casey insists. "I'm sure he's a nice guy. It's just the fishing rights." Others in the district tell the same story.
When Prince Charles and the then Camilla Parker Bowles visited Waterford to stay with the Cavendishes a few years ago, they were welcomed and indeed greeted with applause. Previous visitors have included the dancer Fred Astaire, whose sister Adele lived at the castle after marrying Lord Charles Cavendish, and the golfer Tiger Woods.
Time was, His Grace could shoot the Great Unwashed for less or even better, hunt the fellows with dogs and then wipe the blood on his daughter's faces before tea. Then they would mutter a lot in their beer, rise in fury, steal some flintlocks and under the fey leadership of a romantic who got arrested three weeks before anything happened, betray each other, get massacred a bit and be home for supper and potato water.
The good old days.
Anyway, does anyone think Devonshire should give up his rights (assuming the old fool James didn't actually sign them over twice, which is entirely likely)? It'd be a bit of a blow - I fish that stream occasionally myself, and then maybe the rebels would come after my family's rights.
Anglers invoke King James in battle to fish Duke of Devonshire's river
By David McKittrick, Ireland Correspondent
Published: 10 March 2007
It could be shrugged off as an argument over fish, but in fact it is a classic dispute over ancient rights and local pleasures, over privileges and prerogatives, which stretches back centuries into the Celtic mist.
A few unemployed southern Irish anglers are taking on a scion of Britain's high nobility in the person of the 12th Duke of Devonshire, Peregrine Andrew Morny Cavendish, friend of the Prince of Wales and inheritor of fabulous wealth. And some prize salmon are at stake.
The resonances echo down the centuries: James I makes an appearance in the legal dispute, as does Magna Carta, Henry VIII and Sir Walter Raleigh. So, in more modern times, do Fred Astaire and Tiger Woods.
The origins of the tussle go back a long, long way. It centres on properties and rights that the Devonshires have held for 400 years or so. Among many other assets the family owns Lismore castle in Waterford and fishing rights on the river Blackwater in Cork.
For a time in the 16th century, the castle belonged to Sir Walter Raleigh, but it has been in the possession of the Cavendishes for centuries since. The salmon fishing rights were also established centuries ago, and they have been unsuccessfully challenged many times since.
In a dispute over the fishing rights a few years ago, some locals deliberately went fishing on the river without permission, and were subsequently convicted of trespassing. An appeal has been lodged.
A case concerning the rights was heard in the House of Lords comparatively recently - that is, in 1882 - and was won by the Cavendishes. King James I apparently made a grant in 1613, starting the whole thing off.
But Oliver Casey, a councillor in Youghal Town Council, has unearthed in the dusty archives a document marked Folio 1648 which, he says, quite clearly indicates that the King gave the rights to the mayor in 1609.
This, he argues, is the most ancient of all grants and should prevail. In any case, Mr Casey adds: "I can't understand how a person could own waters like this. I think the Duke should relinquish his rights."
The Duke, however, is adamant that the 1613 patent awarded to the Earl of Cork, one of his ancestors, is the operative document. Mr Casey speaks wistfully of a legal challenge but says the council does not have the funds to mount one.
The Duke spends some time at the castle, although he lives in Derbyshire where his art collection includes works by Canaletto, Gainsborough, Renoir, Raphael and Rembrandt.
He said in a recent interview: "Naturally, this huge castle belonging to an English Duke isn't really ideal for a republic. I'm confident that the relationship with the local community is good, although we're absentee which is not ideal. Twenty or 30 years ago it was more difficult."
At its annual conference in Dublin last month Sinn Fein specified that the Duke's fishing rights should be abolished, demanding that property owned by "British aristocratic landlords" should be seized by compulsory purchase orders.
Locally however, those involved in challenging the rights are adamant that the Devonshires are a popular family and that no element of anti-British feeling comes into the issue.
"There's no ill-feeling against him or anything like that," Mr Casey insists. "I'm sure he's a nice guy. It's just the fishing rights." Others in the district tell the same story.
When Prince Charles and the then Camilla Parker Bowles visited Waterford to stay with the Cavendishes a few years ago, they were welcomed and indeed greeted with applause. Previous visitors have included the dancer Fred Astaire, whose sister Adele lived at the castle after marrying Lord Charles Cavendish, and the golfer Tiger Woods.