View Full Version : Hellenic influences on the Casse
Several of my Casse generals have received a logographos ancillary: isn't this one supposed to be for Hellens only? Also, I noticed that several buildings in the cities surrounding the Casse, most often the MIC but sometimes also the Homeland resource, have a Western-Greek culture tag.
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
03-12-2007, 20:40
The western greek thing seems to be a result of the campaign script. Buildings placed by the script are often displayed as 'Western Greek'. This seems to be just something that happens.
The western greek thing seems to be a result of the campaign script. Buildings placed by the script are often displayed as 'Western Greek'. This seems to be just something that happens.
Does the script place MICs as well?
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
03-12-2007, 22:13
Does the script place MICs as well?
Yes, many of them. The script places a lot of the buildings. If you go into the strat file that normally has all the buildings, you'll find many of them that are there when you start a new game missing. It is quite confusing if you are seeking to mod EB and don't know how it works.
Yes, many of them. The script places a lot of the buildings. If you go into the strat file that normally has all the buildings, you'll find many of them that are there when you start a new game missing. It is quite confusing if you are seeking to mod EB and don't know how it works.
I see. Incidentally, what are the requirements of Casse Chariots and cavalry? I don't seem to be able to build them, even with a level III MIC.
Think you get them after the first reforms, around 240BC iirc. All you can get is skirmisher cavalry though, think you get some belgian heavy cavalry after the second reforms in one of the belgian provinces, not sure if you can recruit the Brihentin at all.
Yeah even the big trade port in Carthage seems to be Western Greek instead of Semetic ... their influence is impressive. But this one I assume is a bug.
Teleklos Archelaou
03-13-2007, 16:53
We have really really tried to figure out why that (Western Greek) pops up on buildings placed by descr_strat.txt so often and sometimes even with those placed by script. Only at the start of the game though. We have no idea, except that it has something to do with edb.txt. I think it is something hardcoded that we have never been made aware of. We are trying still to minimize the places that do that, but with further work on edb.txt, it keeps happening, so while things are still being improved you still might see it around.
Omanes Alexandrapolites
03-13-2007, 18:24
Could this possibly be because of the rebel faction being Western Greek Teleklos Archelaou? I'm probably wrong, I am stupid after all, especially when it comes to modding, yet for some very strange unknown reason I seem to think that it could be effecting the issue.
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
03-13-2007, 22:42
I see. Incidentally, what are the requirements of Casse Chariots and cavalry? I don't seem to be able to build them, even with a level III MIC.
I think you can get them in L4 or L5 Faction MIC in your capital. I don't know if you can get them anywhere else though.
We have really really tried to figure out why that (Western Greek) pops up on buildings placed by descr_strat.txt so often and sometimes even with those placed by script. Only at the start of the game though. We have no idea, except that it has something to do with edb.txt. I think it is something hardcoded that we have never been made aware of. We are trying still to minimize the places that do that, but with further work on edb.txt, it keeps happening, so while things are still being improved you still might see it around.
I thought the buildings from the "descr_strat.txt" had the correct culture and only the ones placed by the script have the wrong (WGreek) culture.
Well a port is not a 'cultural' building in the way it affects public order as having another cultures temples in your province is it?
As far as the MIC's are concerned I don't know if they have that affect either ... but it would make for some strange enemies in regions where you would never expect them.
Teleklos Archelaou
03-14-2007, 16:33
We had the problem with some of our port buildings until we add "all" instead of listing all the factions in requires factions list of a given building level. That is one clue. I have also had the problem pop up on a level when I did not touch it at all, but I did move a new level in between the starting one and it. I mean to say that the market level (2nd in vanilla) in the market complex was moved to the 3rd position and a new intermediate level was put in its place (only for nomads). This made all markets in the game become western greek when placed by descr_strat.txt. We have to have that change, so I'll have to move by hand all markets from descr_strat.txt to campaign_script.txt instead (gah). I have no idea what causes this at all, but indeed it could be related to the default culture. It just seems like it's more complex than that alone. This one has given us fits, believe me.
Another observation: the Fortress Temple to Crom Cruag/Dagda gives +20% happines and +2 morale, but the Fortress Temple to Succellos gives +20% happiness, +2 morale and +10% law. Is there a hidden advantage to building temples to Crom Cruag or is this an oversight? IIRC one of the Makedonian temple complexes had a similar problem.
Boyar Son
03-18-2007, 03:20
I have heard there have been far off foreign traders that traded with the Brithons
I guess I am turning this into Ludens' bug thread: Ivernis had the alliances resource, not the expansion one like indicated on the Casse governement map.
BozosLiveHere
03-19-2007, 01:04
Several of my Casse generals have received a logographos ancillary: isn't this one supposed to be for Hellens only?
Not exclusively, but I don't think barbarians should be getting it either. They can have the Historian ancillary instead. Thanks.
i seem to remember reading somthing about greek trader's going through the strait of Gibraltar to trade with "strange islands" in the north, or somthing..... I dont really have a source because i dont remember where i heard that, lol just thought I would throw my .02 $ in there. :juggle2:
Watchman
03-19-2007, 02:25
The Phoenicians and Greeks both sailed as far as the British Isles in search of tin for use in bronze by what I've heard - ain't nuttin' a merchant wouldn't do for a profit, as usual. Plus some of the EB Goidil unit descriptions for example mention imported Carhaginian armour...
Must've sucked sailing over the Bay of Biscay with Mediterranean naval tech though.
The Casse lvl 3 commercial harbour has a "should not be visible - please report this error" building description. Both building images are eastern, not barbarian so I am guessing the Casse aren't supposed to build this.
In my campaign, several German towns have "Bog roads" in addition to normal ones. Is this intentional?
The Germanic market does not have a name.
https://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4685/marketab8.th.jpg (https://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marketab8.jpg)
After expending their ammunition, Casse chariots lose their swords (they were accidentally on guard mode, but I don't see how this could be related). It didn't appear to impair their fighting efficiency, though.
Another weapon issue: Spartan hoplite's spears don't show up in the right lenght when the Spartans are marching.
https://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4192/spartansos1.th.jpg (https://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spartansos1.jpg)
Lastly, I can't recruit Midland spearmen until the first Celtic reforms. Why aren't these units available? They seem a typical "time of freemen" unit.
The Casse lvl 3 commercial harbour has a "should not be visible - please report this error" building description. Both building images are eastern, not barbarian so I am guessing the Casse aren't supposed to build this.
Dito for the "extensive large trading port upgrade", except that there is no "should not be visible"-text there.
Trairii helmets still look odd in middle distance:
https://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5624/fubartriariijl3.th.jpg (https://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fubartriariijl3.jpg)
Polybian Hastati use the Polybian Principes sprite:
https://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2693/hastatiyy3.th.jpg (https://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hastatiyy3.jpg)
BTW, why are you still using the old model for the Casse family members on the campaign map?
Another question: why do Celtic units have a standard bearer in front of the officer? With all other cultures it is the other way round.
Also, the Casse do not seem able to build the highest level of academy. It aparently requires a "great forum", which they cannot construct.
The high king's court in Bagacos cannot recruit anything but diplomats. Perhaps this is because Bagacos cannot recruit lugoa, but I thought it should recruit at least one unit type to prevent CTD's.
I don't know if Bagacos has Casse culture or not (can't check right now), we have restricted palace recruitment to those factions each settlement can rebel to, which is native faction owner, native culture and eleutheroi. If indeed Bagacos can rebel to Casse it's a bug, otherwise it's as intended.
Not sure if these are bugs but Uachtarach duboGaiscaocha are only recruitable by the Casse, Aedui and Averni in a level 5 faction mic which none of them can build in the provinces they're available in. Also Ivernis only allows type 3 and 4 govs for the casse while most of gaul and northern iberia allows type 2's
Teleklos Archelaou
04-17-2007, 05:50
Also, the Casse do not seem able to build the highest level of academy. It aparently requires a "great forum", which they cannot construct.
The high king's court in Bagacos cannot recruit anything but diplomats. Perhaps this is because Bagacos cannot recruit lugoa, but I thought it should recruit at least one unit type to prevent CTD's.
Thank you Ludens. I don't think we had noticed this. I don't see any other option other than to make the ludus_magnus requirement in the market complex the 'forum' building instead of the 'great forum' level. Gauls don't have that great forum level. This won't make ludus magnus available at the same time a scriptorium is available though - there is still the settlement size requirement. I don't know of any other option other than making it require forum instead of great forum. Otherwise we'll never see a whole building we made. :grin:
Wait, it's still not buildable, as 'large city' is not for barbs. Hmmm. May need to bump these academic buildings down a town level each.
The Errant
04-17-2007, 11:58
Thank you Ludens. I don't think we had noticed this. I don't see any other option other than to make the ludus_magnus requirement in the market complex the 'forum' building instead of the 'great forum' level. Gauls don't have that great forum level. This won't make ludus magnus available at the same time a scriptorium is available though - there is still the settlement size requirement. I don't know of any other option other than making it require forum instead of great forum. Otherwise we'll never see a whole building we made. :grin:
Wait, it's still not buildable, as 'large city' is not for barbs. Hmmm. May need to bump these academic buildings down a town level each.
I don't think the Sabaeans can build a higher learning center than Scriptorium at all. The only Akademia level buildings they get are the ones they conquer from other factions.
Bagacos can only rebel to Aedui and eleutheroi, so it's good.
Teleklos Archelaou
04-18-2007, 16:00
Saba doesn't have access to a level 3 academy building on purpose. Getai and Lusotannan and Sweboz and nomadic factions don't have that complex at all.
Kralizec
04-18-2007, 16:06
Another weapon issue: Spartan hoplite's spears don't show up in the right lenght when the Spartans are marching.
https://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4192/spartansos1.th.jpg (https://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spartansos1.jpg)
This is the case for Hoplitai and Hoplitai Haploi as well. I don't think it's really bothersome, though.
Teleklos Archelaou
04-18-2007, 16:15
The Casse lvl 3 commercial harbour has a "should not be visible - please report this error" building description. Both building images are eastern, not barbarian so I am guessing the Casse aren't supposed to build this.
In my campaign, several German towns have "Bog roads" in addition to normal ones. Is this intentional?
The Germanic market does not have a name.
https://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4685/marketab8.th.jpg (https://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marketab8.jpg)
We don't have a graphic for that third level of barbarian trade port, but I'll reduplicate the second level for now - that will be in the next update. Maybe we'll try to make a new one though. Thanks for cluing me in on that one.
I can't see there is a problem with the german market. Maybe I fixed it earlier and forgot. It looks fine to me.
Those bog roads are just unique buildings that give trade boosts. They were short roads to and from river ports and industrial sites and other such places usually. They don't affect regular roads at all.
Yet another Greek ancillary turned up: Aristophanes Byzantios joined the retinue of a family member studying in the academy of Camulosadae. Another one got a menhir carver. Is this a joke? I though menhirs predated the arrival of the Celts.
Also, a building with a warning message turned up in Swebotraustastamnoz:
https://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7443/bug1ri8.th.jpg (https://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bug1ri8.jpg)
Basileus Seleukeia
04-21-2007, 22:00
Another weapon issue: Spartan hoplite's spears don't show up in the right lenght when the Spartans are marching.
https://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4192/spartansos1.th.jpg (https://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spartansos1.jpg)
Every unit that has long spears (Thureophoroi, Thorakitai, all kinds of non-phalanx hoplites, etc) have this problem. It had been mentioned some time ago and as it didn't change, I think the EB either has more important work to do or it is unfixable, which I don't hope. The third possibility would be that the team forgot about it, but we won't hope that, won't we? :laugh4:
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
04-21-2007, 22:12
Ludens, most of the problems with buildings reading WesternGreek and not having descriptions has to do with the fact that if you have a "not" requirement in a building that is placed at the start of the game, it defaults to WesternGreek. I believe that Teleklos when through all of the requirements and made some sort of fix to this problem.
I believe that the spear thing has to do with animations. And a new animation is difficult to make so it was either put aside for later, or decided taht it wasn't a big enough problem to fix.
Teleklos Archelaou
04-22-2007, 02:17
We're doing the best we can to get rid of those (Western Greek) issues, *but* any building in rebel territory that is placed at the start of the game and that has a "not" in the level requirements, will default to WG as the default culture. We are getting around this one way by cheating and making the default form of the building look the same otherwise as those rebel versions would need. And taking a few out of placement at the start of the game. And also introducing some initial levels (to at least one old complex) to give something to the province that is in that line of buildings and doesn' t need a 'not' in there. Anyway, most of what I can do has been done for our newest internal version. If we didn't have that stupid 'not' problem, we'd have a lot less problems...
We're doing the best we can to get rid of those (Western Greek) issues, *but* any building in rebel territory that is placed at the start of the game and that has a "not" in the level requirements, will default to WG as the default culture. We are getting around this one way by cheating and making the default form of the building look the same otherwise as those rebel versions would need. And taking a few out of placement at the start of the game. And also introducing some initial levels (to at least one old complex) to give something to the province that is in that line of buildings and doesn' t need a 'not' in there. Anyway, most of what I can do has been done for our newest internal version. If we didn't have that stupid 'not' problem, we'd have a lot less problems...
I didn't intend to bug you guys about this. It just looked different from the previous wrong-culture buildings I saw, so I decided to report it.
Thanks for the explanation, Basileus Seleukeia and MarcusAureliusAntoninus. I haven't played a Hellenic faction since EB 0.8, so this was the first time I saw it.
One of my spies picked up two dancer ancillaries (with different pictures, BTW).
After yet another battle fighting of the endless lugoae stacks of the Aedui, my best general picked up the "doubtful courage" trait. The description mentioned him fleeing the battlefield. Problem is, he never fled the battlefield, nor did any of his units. He is also the only of my family members that reached a golden chevron for his bodyguard. So why on earth did this fellow gain a "doubtful courage" trait? He doesn't have it anymore, BTW. In the following battle he lost half his bodyguard, but he also lost the trait, so something good came out it as well.
This is the reason... If you let the general personally kill at least one guy in each battle, he'll avoid rumours of cowardice.
Trigger battle4
WhenToTest PostBattle
Condition GeneralNumKillsInBattle = 0
and PercentageEnemyKilled > 10
Affects Coward 1 Chance 10
;Bug7 - 10/20 : added "PercentageEnemyKilled > 10" condition to prevent coward trait being awarded when enemy retreats without fighting
;------------------------------------------
Trigger battle4a
WhenToTest PostBattle
Condition not WonBattle
and GeneralNumKillsInBattle = 0
and PercentageEnemyKilled < 10
Affects Coward 1 Chance 10
;Bug9 - 10/24 : new coward trigger for defeats without engagement
Ah, I see. In that case the descriptions should be altered. He must have been very unlucky though: the fact that he has a gold chevron should indicate the aggressive way in which I use my generals, and this battle was no different. Thanks for the explanation.
Edit: with personally do you mean that his unit has to kill someone, or that the general himself should make the kill? The latter seems impossible for Casse generals.
I don't really know what GeneralNumKillsInBattle really means... I assume it's personal kills for the general, but it might be his bodyguard too.
Watchman
05-14-2007, 14:35
In my experience the Casse generals aren't particularly prone to developing the "coward" traits, so I would assume the bodyguards count. The main thing seems to be that the general's unit "gets its hands dirty" so to speak.
I don't really know what GeneralNumKillsInBattle really means... I assume it's personal kills for the general, but it might be his bodyguard too.
I've just refought the battle under slight different conditions. The general got "doubtfull courage" again, even though his bodyguard accounted for 47 kills. What I find odd is that, although this battle was just like any other battle he fought, it is specifically this one that triggers doubtfull courage. Hmm, well, I'll just lose the trait on those gaesatea that are approaching from the south.
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