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Goofball
03-13-2007, 00:15
Apparently this guy's congregation loves him, and feels the need to make sure he drives a Caddy and lives in a big house. But does it not seem kind of, well, slimy to anybody? How do our Christian Orgahs feel about this?

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/190778

Cheers, jeers greet pastor

Mostly poor flock welcome minister living the good life as critics rally outside his church

Mar 12, 2007 04:30 AM
Surya Bhattacharya
Joseph Hall
Staff Reporters

Thousands of members of the embattled Prayer Palace congregation cheered on their pastor yesterday as he bragged about his suntan, the support of worshippers and the openness of his administration while one congregant warned, "The devil decided to mess with the wrong church."
Outside, private security guards, church volunteers and a couple of police cruisers kept a close eye on a small group of demonstrators protesting the lavish lifestyle of senior pastor Paul Melnichuk, his twin sons, who are the church's junior pastors, and the Prayer Palace's dwindling contributions to charity.
The Prayer Palace and the Melnichuks were the subject of a recent Sunday Star investigation that found the church's three pastors living in multi-million-dollar mansions and enjoying a lavish Florida hideaway while encouraging the largely poor congregation to tithe a percentage of their income.
At the same time, the Star investigation found, the church reportedly took in some $3 million from its members in 2005, while doling out a minuscule $9,443 to "benevolent and charity" activities.
But if Melnichuk was aware of the protestors outside, he gave nary a sign to the worshippers who greeted him with enthusiastic cheers and hallelujahs as he made his way to the pulpit during a service at the massive church, which dominates the Highway 400 and Finch Ave. intersection.
"I've brought a little bit of Florida with me in my suntan," Melnichuk told his congregants, most of whom are black.
"You can see my white teeth better. ... I want to look so much like my congregation," the 72-year-old evangelical preacher said.
After the story was published, Star reporters involved received threats and were inundated with emails promising to pray for them.
Yesterday's service lasted three hours inside a coliseum-style setting, with a gospel choir and testimonials by those whose lives had been changed or "saved" by the church.
Michigan-based minister Byron Hayes preached a guest sermon as pictures of swaying congregation members flashed on giant TV screens alongside psalms from the Bible and, occasionally, the words "HE LIVES!!!"
"The devil decided to mess with the wrong church," proclaimed one member from the stage. "It's all right, it's all right, though, because it means we are going to a higher level.
"We're still here and we will always be here. So keep praying," said the young man, a member of the church's youth group who introduced himself as "Owen."
"I was told to come up here and give a testimony of how the church has changed me," said the youth, one of many who offered their stories of support to congregants before Melnichuk made his appearance.
But, as members inside raised their hands and swayed to cries of "Hallelujah!" and "Amen!" the security guards and church volunteers – distinct in their mustard yellow jackets – kept constant watch on the boisterous protest outside the church's main gates, where a group of about 25 condemned the Melnichuks' opulent lifestyle, and urged congregants to demand more accountability for their tithed offerings.
"We want to bring awareness to the fact that people are giving from the community...while the ministers from the church are living extravagant and luxurious lifestyles," said Robbie Robinson, a protest organizer.
"We're saying that if $3 million is being taken out of the community, some of that money should be given back to the community."
Many of the protestors, all of whom were black, said they were incensed that the Melnichuks were urging their largely poor congregation to tithe generously while living in gated mansions costing millions and driving luxury cars.
The Prayer Palace's record of decreasing involvement in good works and community improvements was also cited by the demonstrators, who circled as officers in two parked police cruisers maintained a watch nearby.
The protestors shouted to passing congregants that they were being exploited by phoney preachers, whose main interest was lining their own pockets.
Many were also angry that the bulk of the church's worshippers were black, while the family leading them was white.
Robinson, who works two jobs to support his family, objected to the Prayer Palace's focus on donations.
"There are other churches in the community with black ministers who don't (demand) that kind of money from their congregation. These are three white ministers, a father and two sons, who live in multi-million dollar homes," Robinson said.
Among the protestors were several who decried what they perceived as exploitative conduct of the church against its black members.
"Money should be invested within the black community," said protestor Jane Reid, pointedly observing that "after all, 90 per cent of the people who attend the church are black."
But the words of protest didn't make it inside the sanctuary, where Melnichuk encouraged worshippers to stand up and take a good look at the news reporters who may have infiltrated the congregation.
Brushing off the media attention, Melnichuk told his cheering worshippers that tithes in the wake of the Star's investigative report have actually increased by 10 per cent.
After the story was published March 4, he said, "our board of directors said the pastor will be back and will make a statement."
After pausing to welcome the media yesterday, Melnichuk added: "The statement is this ... the board of directors met and discussed (Saturday), with about 400-500 key leaders of this church ... and a solicitor has been retained."
As well, Melnichuk said, a "strategic communications solutions" team has been engaged.
"Okay, that's it sweetie pie," he said, concluding his remarks with a smile.
Within moments, a woman in a burnished gold dress and head-dress ran to the stage and slapped a $50 bill onto Melnichuk's forehead.
The move was met with cheers and, following a request by a church volunteer, congregation members started throwing money at Melnichuk's feet.
"First the funds go the church," said the beaming pastor. "After that, if the folks want to bless me..."
The church volunteers, acting on Melnichuk's instructions, divided the growing pile of cash into three collection buckets; the pastor then instructed a young member who is training to be a preacher to dip in and take out "a handful of cash."
"I hope the media got a picture of me with a $50 bill stuck to my forehead," Melnichuk laughed.

With files from Andrew Chung, Jessica Leeder and Dale Brazao

Papewaio
03-13-2007, 00:26
Do cigarette smokers protest about how the cigarette companies executives live?

People have things that make them feel good, they often don't bother to look at how their suppliers live.

Goofball
03-13-2007, 00:41
Do cigarette smokers protest about how the cigarette companies executives live?

People have things that make them feel good, they often don't bother to look at how their suppliers live.

Tobacco companies are businesses who's stated goal is to make money for their shareholders. More importantly (especially in the case of tobacco companies), they pay significant amount of tax on their income, so that at least if people are stupid and want to spend their money on tobacco, there is still some benifit to society.

Churches, on the other hand, are not supposed to be "for profit" businesses. Because of this, they pay no taxes on their income because the idea is that most of the money should make it's way back into the community, minus whatever costs are associated with administration.

It seems like what this father/sons team has come up with is a way to make $3,000,000 per year tax free.

You don't think that's wrong?

Ronin
03-13-2007, 00:46
Tobacco companies are businesses who's stated goal is to make money for their shareholders. More importantly (especially in the case of tobacco companies), they pay significant amount of tax on their income, so that at least if people are stupid and want to spend their money on tobacco, there is still some benifit to society.

Churches, on the other hand, are not supposed to be "for profit" businesses. Because of this, they pay no taxes on their income because the idea is that most of the money should make it's way back into the community, minus whatever costs are associated with administration.

It seems like what this father/sons team has come up with is a way to make $3,000,000 per year tax free.

You don't think that's wrong?


personally I see such things as a tax on stupidity......maybe if people are scammed long enough they will learn something.....

I know that history is pretty much against any positive gain on this field....but hey....

Blodrast
03-13-2007, 01:17
Among the duties of a priest/minister/pastor/etc is that they should act as role-models for their congregation. They should live what they preach. "Do as I say, not as I do" should not be applicable to them, since the two should be one and the same.

That isn't to say that they must all live in abject poverty (although there are monks who choose that as well, giving up all their worldly goods). Religion does not exclude common sense. However, trips to exotic places and lavish lifestyles are NOT what a pastor/priest/minister's life should be. One of the more important traits that they are supposed to cultivate among their flock is humility.
If the church's coffers are overflowing, that money should be spent on charities, and/or improving the life of the more impoverished parishioners, and/or improving the church's facilities (e.g., maintenance, renovations, etc). That money is NOT for a new car for the priest, or any of that stuff.

People who live that way are just hypocrites, and do not deserve to be in the positions they occupy.

My two cents, naturally.

Blodrast
03-13-2007, 01:22
personally I see such things as a tax on stupidity......maybe if people are scammed long enough they will learn something.....

I know that history is pretty much against any positive gain on this field....but hey....

Well, it's the difference between what things should be like, and what they are like.
Some folks donate some money to the church in the idea that that money will help the poor, the homeless, the hungry, etc. Charity, you know ?
If that money goes towards improving the priest's lifestyle, well, then, yeah, we have a problem.
But that's not because the people are stupid, but because the priest is corrupt and a hypocrite.

If our government taxes the hell out of us, and it does not use that money in a proper way, are we stupid for continuing to pay taxes ?
Yes, I know, the two are different, since the ones we pay to the state are mandatory, but then, are we stupid for not overthrowing the government ?
No, because, in all truth, whichever government you choose, there will STILL be poor management of the money, corruption, bureaucracy, etc. It's just the way things are. They should, and could, be better, but they're not. That doesn't stop us from continuing to try and improve them - that's why we vote new people in power, because we're hoping things WILL improve...

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
03-13-2007, 01:53
Apparently this guy's congregation loves him, and feels the need to make sure he drives a Caddy and lives in a big house. But does it not seem kind of, well, slimy to anybody? How do our Christian Orgahs feel about this?

He's going to hell? That would be my take on this, probably his parishionars as well, come to think of it, for supporting him.

Not that I'm saying that's nesseccarily fair. I suppose it depends on how forgiving God really is.

Personnally if I ever meet this "pastor" I'll punch him, very hard, then dip his head in the font of his own church, just to see if he bursts into flames.

I bet his church doesn't even have a font. "Prayer Palace" do you suppose they'll change my money for me?

Navaros
03-13-2007, 02:26
Of course what he's doing is wrong, but it's all too common these days.

The other day I was watching TCT late at night which is supposedly a "respectable" Christian network, and they had this creepy crazy-looking guy soliciting people to donate $49 per month to TCT for the next 10 months, because it is 2007 and and 7 is a only number to God, and 7x7 seemingly is an "extra" holy number to God. He went on to say how people who could "do more" should donate above that amount and then went on to say how God told him that someone who pledged right now was being cured (of random diseases he spouted off the top of his head).

Don't know why stuff like in the OP gets publicity but the scamming of elderly/mentally-challenged victims by TCT does not. Of course TCT airs scamming programs like Benny Hinn which also do this, but I had thought TCT was respectable enough to not do it directly. All such scamming should be illegal.

It should also be noted that the source of the article, the Toronto Star, is a shady source from which articles about the "wrongs" of Christianity should come. Seeing as that source promotes equally vile and repugnant perversions of Christianity with a "positive spin" when it comes to any other issue relating to the truth of the Bible.

Crazed Rabbit
03-13-2007, 02:36
It is, of course, very, terribly wrong - to use the Word of Christ to live rich on the backs of the poor.

It saddens, even angers me, when I see a 'preacher' promising God's blessings if one gives money to the preacher.

Crazed Rabbit

Devastatin Dave
03-13-2007, 02:37
Tobacco companies are businesses who's stated goal is to make money for their shareholders. More importantly (especially in the case of tobacco companies), they pay significant amount of tax on their income, so that at least if people are stupid and want to spend their money on tobacco, there is still some benifit to society.

Churches, on the other hand, are not supposed to be "for profit" businesses. Because of this, they pay no taxes on their income because the idea is that most of the money should make it's way back into the community, minus whatever costs are associated with administration.

It seems like what this father/sons team has come up with is a way to make $3,000,000 per year tax free.

You don't think that's wrong?
I agree with YOU COMPLETELY Goofball. I like to "serve" this guy my nut-basket. Shame on him:yes:

Papewaio
03-13-2007, 02:39
You don't think that's wrong?

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Alexander the Pretty Good
03-13-2007, 05:15
Dunno what that congregation is doing with their head so deep in the sand.

spmetla
03-13-2007, 08:15
If they want to give the guy money to be 'saved' and then threaten those that oppose him then I couldn't give a damn. It's wrong that he's taking advantage of them but there's nothing that I think should be done by anyone except his supporters, and that would be just not giving him money.
If he starts advocating violence or something then call in the FBI.

ajaxfetish
03-13-2007, 08:33
There're two ways to look at the issue. Some, such as Papewaio, are looking at it from the perspective of the congregation, noting that they're being pretty foolish to support this guy, and we can't legislate well against pure stupidity. I'm more concerned with the situation looking at it from the perspective of the preacher. For someone who claims to be following in the footsteps of Christ and the apostles as a shepherd of his flock, he's not doing much to follow their examples.

Ajax

Banquo's Ghost
03-13-2007, 09:40
For someone who claims to be following in the footsteps of Christ and the apostles as a shepherd of his flock, he's not doing much to follow their examples.

:yes:

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:20

"A sucker and his money deserve to be parted." Klondike Joe, 1869

Hepcat
03-13-2007, 10:14
Well unfortunately we have a very similar thing going on here. Brian Tamaki is our Religious nutcase.

He promoted himself to bishop in 2005 of his Destiny Church.

He has said that the abundance of females in leadership roles in New Zealand (including our Prime Minister, Helen Clark and several female cabinet ministers) is "the work of the devil".

He also shows his obvious Nazi views when he claimed that pre-colonial Māori society was one in which gay and lesbian people were exterminated. Even though many Māori academic authorities question his basis for this claim.

But of course how could the great bishop who possesses a luxury home, yacht and expensive car be wrong. There is a joke that next he'll promote himself to Jesus, or God.

He also claimed that "Destiny Church would rule New Zealand by 2008." However the results of the Destiny Church party in the 2005 general election were not quite the overwelming majority he expected. They got 0.6% of the party vote in the elections.

Still they have a worryingly high number of supporters and a lot of them are not wealthy families yet still have to contribute 10% of their wages. Any sex before marrige results in a $700 fine redemtion fee, for which you get a ring which means you have been forgiven.

I hate Destiny Church and more so it's leader, though I can find some consulation in the fact that he was voted NZ's least trusted person.

There is nothing right about using people looking for something to believe in as a profitable enterprise and a political power base. My grandfather often just calls him NZ's Hitler.

Ja'chyra
03-13-2007, 10:20
Two sayings spring to mind, something about an eye of a needle and fools and money

doc_bean
03-13-2007, 10:29
This just shows how the poor only have themselves to blame.




What ?

Ja'chyra
03-13-2007, 10:31
This just shows how the stupid only have themselves to blame.




What ?

Fixed it.

Another saying is "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

Or in context, you can tell people they are being scammed but you can't stop them giving their own money away.

Navaros
03-13-2007, 17:53
It is not morally correct to think that just because fools are easy to take advantage of and part from their money, that makes it "okay" to scam them.

Scamming is fundamentally wrong and should always be illegal. End of story.

The wrongness and necessary illegality of it is not conditional upon the foolishness/elderlyness/mentally-challengedness of the scam victims.

Goofball
03-13-2007, 18:16
A fool and his money are soon parted.

You're missing the point. Since it appears that the majority of the $3,000,000 per year this "church" brings in is being used for the benefit of its "owners" and not for charitable purposes, then this really isn't a church anymore it's a for-profit business. On $3,000,000 of net income, the tax bill would be +/- $600,000, but that is not being paid in this case. So these shysters aren't just parting their foolish congregation (who I really don't care two shiny turds about) from their money, they're parting the rest of the country from the money they owe it.

doc_bean
03-13-2007, 18:43
You're missing the point. Since it appears that the majority of the $3,000,000 per year this "church" brings in is being used for the benefit of its "owners" and not for charitable purposes, then this really isn't a church anymore it's a for-profit business. On $3,000,000 of net income, the tax bill would be +/- $600,000, but that is not being paid in this case. So these shysters aren't just parting their foolish congregation (who I really don't care two shiny turds about) from their money, they're parting the rest of the country from the money they owe it.

Redefine charitable organization then and don't automatically include churches :shrug:

Goofball
03-13-2007, 19:56
Redefine charitable organization then and don't automatically include churches :shrug:

That wouldn't be fair. I have no problem with legitimate churches enjoying tax-free status, because they are providing social services (i.e. soup kitchens, homeless shelters, drug rehab services) that would otherwise have to be provided by the government.

But all this church is doing is making its pastors rich.

The Spartan (Returns)
03-14-2007, 01:12
pastors shouldnt be that rich. is the pope that rich? (actually i dunno)

that man is too rich im extremely surprised he wouldnt give any of his wealth away.

wouldnt be surprised if he went to heaven and got a shack instead of a beautiful mansion.
(give, and you save treasures in heaven)

Navaros
03-14-2007, 02:01
wouldnt be surprised if he went to heaven and got a shack instead of a beautiful mansion.
(give, and you save treasures in heaven)

That guy ain't going to Heaven at all.

gunslinger
03-14-2007, 02:29
On the statements concerning taxes: Ministers don't get a tax-free salary. They have to pay income taxes on whatever they make (assuming they report it). One loophole would be to let the church own the cars and the million dollar home as a parsonage, making it tax-free and keeping the pastor from having to pay income taxes on the one million dollars needed to buy it. However, this would leave the church owning the house if they ever wised up and fired him.

Corruption among those who attain positions of power seems to be hard-coded into the human race. It must require great dicipline for the pastor of a large congregation (or even a politician) to remember that he is supposed to be a servant of the people and not the other way around.

The saddest part of this story is not the church members who are being misled by a corrupt pastor, but the far greater number of people who refuse to be associated with any church due to stories such as this one.

Devastatin Dave
03-14-2007, 02:54
I'm gonna tinkle in this dude's holy water...

Samurai Waki
03-14-2007, 06:17
Hmmmm... kind of sounds like something the Catholic Church used to dole out... except they don't even get pedophile gay sex for a little hush money...:no:

P.S. This post isn't meant as an inflammatory gesture towards the Orgah's Catholic members (being one myself).

Ja'chyra
03-14-2007, 09:37
It is not morally correct to think that just because fools are easy to take advantage of and part from their money, that makes it "okay" to scam them.

Scamming is fundamentally wrong and should always be illegal. End of story.

The wrongness and necessary illegality of it is not conditional upon the foolishness/elderlyness/mentally-challengedness of the scam victims.


What has legal got to do with morally correct? And I don't believe I said scamming was ok so please don't spin.

The fact of the matter is that what these leeches are doing is not illegal, or at least they haven't been charged with anything, the members of this church have been told what their "preacher" is up to, even the preacher admits it to some extent but they are still content to give him their cash. So in this case, and imho, yes they are stupid and yes they probably do deserve it, their families however is another matter.

At least if daddy spends all his money on alcohol you get a beating to show for it, what do they get in this case......

doc_bean
03-14-2007, 10:12
That wouldn't be fair. I have no problem with legitimate churches enjoying tax-free status, because they are providing social services (i.e. soup kitchens, homeless shelters, drug rehab services) that would otherwise have to be provided by the government.

But all this church is doing is making its pastors rich.

Do all churches and cults enjoy this tax free status ? If they aren't a non-profit organisation aren't they automatically taxed ?

gunslinger
03-15-2007, 01:29
Do all churches and cults enjoy this tax free status ? If they aren't a non-profit organisation aren't they automatically taxed ?
As I said before, the church is a tax-free organization, but the pastor's income (which is the issue here) is taxable.