Suggestions About the Sabeans

[beauchamp]

Assalam u Aleikum, EB team!
Im currently playing your v .81 and enjoying it emmensely.
I have a knowledge of Arabic and of Islamic history and would like
to propose some things for the Sabeans:

-The king, or faction leader should be called "Al Malik (the king)"
-I think the city of Sa'ba (or Sa'na) should be included, but Mar'ib should still be the capitol
-Camels and bedouin troops should be included, even though the Sabeans were settled people, they probably could have drawn/made alliances with the many Badu tribes in the north.
-cities should come with caravans, and then one could upgrade them
-The eastern arabs, around Masqat and Homna, were famed for their swordsmenship and produced through tribal levies excellent warriors. These men would fight with strait longswords (khanjar and shields made from hippos hide and would participate in deuls called "Razha" to perfect their skills or settle consequences. I think they could probably be included as well.
http://www.omanet.om/english/culture/folk_song.asp?cat=cult
(I can also find more pics of possible units if you would like)
-Include Masqat, I think it was an important enough city, even though it didnt recive its "epoch" until Islam came

I hope ive provided some good ideas, please feel free to correct me etc.
Ma'salema wa Shukran EB!

[Krusader]

Current Saba team on hiatus, so I'll try to answer your questions.


-The king, or faction leader should be called "Al Malik (the king)"

Dont know what currently is ingame, but Malek might be King when trait will change.


-I think the city of Sa'ba (or Sa'na) should be included, but Mar'ib should still be the capitol
Unfortunately we are at our province limit and can't add others.


-Camels and bedouin troops should be included, even though the Sabeans were settled people, they probably could have drawn/made alliances with the many Badu tribes in the north.
I know Bedouin troops are to be made, however we will probably not have camel troops, due to most evidence seems to point to camels being used to transport soldiers to battle who then fought dismounted. Might change, but never know.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/factions_saba_units.html <-- Check this though


-cities should come with caravans, and then one could upgrade them
Might be done in future versions.


-The eastern arabs, around Masqat and Homna, were famed for their swordsmenship and produced through tribal levies excellent warriors. These men would fight with strait longswords (khanjar and shields made from hippos hide and would participate in deuls called "Razha" to perfect their skills or settle consequences. I think they could probably be included as well.
http://www.omanet.om/english/culture/folk_song.asp?cat=cult
(I can also find more pics of possible units if you would like)

Hmm, dont know if this unit is planned, but could be. If not, then it is worth considering at least.


-Include Masqat, I think it was an important enough city, even though it didnt recive its "epoch" until Islam came
Same as Sa'ba. Not enough provinces.


I hope ive provided some good ideas, please feel free to correct me etc.
Ma'salema wa Shukran EB!

Thanks for input. I'll see if I can crack out the :whip: and get one of the Sabaean team members to answer your questions better.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I don't have the knowledge of the language that our FC has (though he doesn't have reading knowledge either, but he is more knowledgable than I) of Sabaean, which is also referred to as Epigraphic South Arabian I believe, but the word the Sabaeans used to refer to their sovereigns was Mukkarib (alternately spelled slightly differently by modern scholars), which originally meant federator or something close to that. This title is used by all the books I've got checked out on the Sabaeans.

[Gask]

Does gaul/germany really need so many towns? Saba could seriously use a few more cities in their general area as their economy stinks.

[Xtiaan72]

Isn't it cool to have one really challenging faction though?

[The Errant]

Does gaul/germany really need so many towns? Saba could seriously use a few more cities in their general area as their economy stinks.

Stinks? Four provinces on the Arabian peninsula can build mines. Five if you count Nabataia . Two more on the African side. Red Sea trade creates a nice closed box of cashflow. Complete with caravan routes for larger settlements. If someone could manage to fix the Sabata trade port bug, they would be even better off.
All they need is a bit of starting funds and enough time to develop their settlements and the Sabyn will roll in cash.

The Sabyn buildings are still incomplete. The higher tier temples lack proper descriptions and most events come with notices for the Carthies.

The unit roster is still incomplete but quite playable. Some minor recruitment issues notwithstanding. I predict the unit roster will expand as soon as the team finds the time to do so. Some new tough infantry units would be appreciated. :yes:

Yeah they are challenging, but no more than the Saka or Pontos. Atleast the Sabyn got a whole desert between them and the Seleucids. With the Pontics they're practically next door.

[Gask]

Perhaps but by that time you will have elite selucid and egyptian stacks pressing down on your fairly weak infantry. I suppose it dosent help that whenever I played Saba both major powers allied against me :skull:. I managed to hold out and use those random rebelling cities that flip to your side. Sometimes they flip with large garrisons which I used to ravage poorly defended selucid cities... that was amusing. But it takes far longer than the casse even at start to get anything done and tedious does not = challenging for me. But to each his own as it was just a suggestion.

As for Pontos as long as you storm out at the start of the game and capture that one province that already has a mine near macedons island + make use of galatian mercs your pretty much golden. Saka... no idea /shrug I hate horse archers with a passion :laugh4: .

[Elminster12]

Perhaps but by that time you will have elite selucid and egyptian stacks pressing down on your fairly weak infantry. I suppose it dosent help that whenever I played Saba both major powers allied against me :skull:. I managed to hold out and use those random rebelling cities that flip to your side. Sometimes they flip with large garrisons which I used to ravage poorly defended selucid cities... that was amusing. But it takes far longer than the casse even at start to get anything done and tedious does not = challenging for me. But to each his own as it was just a suggestion.

As for Pontos as long as you storm out at the start of the game and capture that one province that already has a mine near macedons island your pretty much golden. Saka... no idea /shrug I hate horse archers with a passion :laugh4: .
Pergamon? I'm sure the Seleukids will reward by kicking you back into Euxinus. Because that realistically entail Nikaia as well. Too extended, but better than taking Byzantion or Kotais. You're better off just snatching Mazaka, Sinope, and Trapezous and turtling until you can build mines.

As for Saba....why so many cities in Arabia? Or Africa? Or Greece? Playing the Gauls is FUN because their variety as people is actually portrayed. I would never forgive EB for having a Vanilla Gaullia! That was just kinda lame....

[Gask]

The Aedui and Arverni? Forgive me if Im way off but arnt they pretty much clones of each other with skin differences? Im sure their histories and such were quite distinct enough though to be included as seperate entities, im talking game play wise.

As for Pontos I didnt mean to say take that city first of anything but rather asap. Their start was probably the most fun that I have had as any faction, very brutal and fast pace if you strike out. But once you do and then dislodge the selucids from the coast line it gets very simple. It also didnt help them in that they typically send disjointed units at you once youve smashed their initial field army.

[The Errant]

Playing early Sabaeans is a lot like playing the Steppe factions. Only difference is your skirmishers are infantry rather than cavalry. Slingers and javeliners come cheap. And you can run around your enemies indefinately since the phalangites the Successors are so fond of aren't that fast.
Eventually you can ship units of elephants and Ethiopian Guard from Axum to the peninsula.
The Ethiopians absolutely love to hack phalangites into kindling. And not even the Argyraspidai or the Thorakitai Argyraspidai stand a chance against a flanking elephant charge.
I just love it when all those elite expensive hellenes go for a short drop and a sudden stop. The perfect ending for a sabaean flight lesson. :yes:

[Domitius Ulpianus]

The Aedui and Arverni? Forgive me if Im way off but arnt they pretty much clones of each other with skin differences? Im sure their histories and such were quite distinct enough though to be included as seperate entities, im talking game play wise.

Ummm, I am not a gaul expert but the division between Arverni and Aedui in my humble opinion is quite necessary because it represents very well the warring factions that existed there and the continual internal struggle. The Aedui were a more "pro-rome" tribe, the Senate even named them "Brothers of the Republic". On the other hand the Arverni (traditional enemies of the Aedui) openly opposed the Romans. Altough the Aedui "betrayed" the romans late during the war of the gauls, after the siege of Gergovie, they restored their allegiance to Rome, after the Gaul defeat at Alesia.

Gameplaywise they are relevant, because you can always play one against the other, have them as allies or enemies. I think it actually adds fun to the game.

[Tiberius Nero]

As for the Saka, are they really challenging? I mean is it possible for the AI to beat a player controlled horse archer army with several cataphract/tank cavalry units (generals) added in? Yeah, probably you won't recruit a unit before the 250's, because you will only get out of debt then, but horse archers can massacre full stacks of phalangites without taking a single casualty...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Pretty doubtful that we move provinces around like this guys. I wouldn't expect any big changes, though we still aren't happy with the way Arabia as a province is getting attacked by the Seleucids most games.

[Fondor_Yards]

As for the Saka, are they really challenging? I mean is it possible for the AI to beat a player controlled horse archer army with several cataphract/tank cavalry units (generals) added in? Yeah, probably you won't recruit a unit before the 250's, because you will only get out of debt then, but horse archers can massacre full stacks of phalangites without taking a single casualty...

Yes ;)
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/FondorYards/picture005-1.jpg

[Kugutsu]

Pretty doubtful that we move provinces around like this guys. I wouldn't expect any big changes, though we still aren't happy with the way Arabia as a province is getting attacked by the Seleucids most games.

How about as a solution you move the city for the arabia province down to the south, and make the rest of the province impassible, like you have with bits of the sahara? That kills two birds with one stone. Yes, it is unrealistic that anyone would own the desert, but if it must be owned its better the Saba have it than the Seleukids... Or will that screw with the balancing somehow?

https://img483.imageshack.us/img483/9062/ebmap080antiqueeditedir7.th.jpg (https://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ebmap080antiqueeditedir7.jpg)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

If we do free up a province that way or some other similar way, I don't think it would go to south arabia. Splitting Babylonia and adding Utica are two that are higher on the list, but no final decisions have been made.

[Watchman]

You're better off just snatching Mazaka, Sinope, and Trapezous and turtling until you can build mines.Eh, I tried that once. I ran up a pretty impressive debt trekking through the woods to Trapezous (now I know why that place was able to resist the Ottomans so long...), and while I was besieging it the Seleukids decided they wanted Kotais which duly triggered the war-declaration script... :skull:

[The Errant]

If we do free up a province that way or some other similar way, I don't think it would go to south arabia. Splitting Babylonia and adding Utica are two that are higher on the list, but no final decisions have been made.

Splitting Babylonia into what provinces exactly? And is Utica going to be in north Africa on Carthie territory?

I'm all for making Arabia impassable but unless the AI stops targeting the human player as public enemy number one, I don't think it will make much difference. Sure it will take longer for them to get to you, but if the human player is neighboring the AI it will come after you. Even if it has to take the "long route".

edit.
As the RTW AI is hardcoded making Arabia impassable may be the only way to ease atleast some of the pressure away from the Sabeans in the early game. Please make Arabia province impassable.

[Kugutsu]

I wasnt really suggesting freeing up the province, as something still needs to fill the middle of arabia. I meant that you could keep the province where it is, but move the city closer to the sabeans and further from the seleukids, and perhaps put a ring of impassible terrain like mountains round the middle of the province so armies cant just march across it.

[beauchamp]

Thanks for the input, ive noticed (before my game had a CTD) that the sebeans can achive a pretty substantial economy, through mining and getting the right trade routes. If you guys ever need any other help or information, just PM me.

Shukran!