Shield wall=PERFECT PHALANX!!!

[hellenes]

Man Ive tried EB8.1a with BI and the shield wall is EXACLTY what the classical phalanx was!!!!
PERFECT...
I hope you guys consider it...for the good of the mod.

[Rilder]

They probably won't officially implement it as the mod is officially for 1.5 not BI and using BI.exe isn't supported by the team, maybe for EB2 though.

[Krusader]

As Rilder says, EB won't move to BI as we would probably lose players as not everyone has BI.

Neither do we support any BI addons or such, because if we do we would thus be kind of responsible for helping people having problems with BI and our time is already stretched. Although most "technical support" issues are handled by fans and for that we are thankful. :balloon: :balloon2:

[Dooz]

hellenes, did you mod anything to include the shieldwall for certain units yourself? Or did you use Thorlof's adaptations of Darth and Sinuhet's mods?

[Xtiaan72]

bI exe. Really does play nice.

[NeoSpartan]

But the shield wall charge?????..... The classical greek phalanx could and did.

[Rilder]

But the shield wall charge?????..... The classical greek phalanx could and did.

I think so but its been so long since I played vanilla BI that I don't remember. :laugh4:

[iamphet]

shieldwall and swimming don't require Bi.exe, they work with vanilla RomeTW.exe as well

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I'm sorry, yet I disagree. They, sadly, do not seem to work, you, unfortunately, need to run the campaign with the great BI.exe to make it work without a nasty CTD on the primary loading screen.

[NeoSpartan]

I think so but its been so long since I played vanilla BI that I don't remember. :laugh4:

I heard it didn't (but I ain't sure, I haven't played BI). Still, thats what the guys who are making the Hegemonia mod said, and thats why they won't use the shield wall to reproduce a Classical Phalanx.

[Rilder]

Just tested it out with couple saxon units that can shield wall, and they can charge with shield wall..

[Watchman]

Well, sort of. Far as I've noticed (even back with vanilla BI) what usually happens is that about the first one or two ranks bother to charge, while the rest pussyfoot some ten meters to the rear and slowly inch to contact.

Sorta lacks "oomph", that. Still, units in shieldwall do stick together something incredible and are in some ways even better than phalanxes as obstacles - I've had Hoplitai Haploi in shieldwall hold city gates for like fifteen minutes against sallying early Roman infantry, and watched dead tired Camillian Triarii and Misthophoroi Hoplitai somewhat fruitlessly batter at each others' shields a bit to the side for similar amount of time. Shieldwalled Hoplitai massed into deep ranks also seem to be fairly good at "cleaving" at least lower-end phalanxes by the crude expedient of pushing into the ranks and spreading out.

[antisocialmunky]

shieldwall and swimming don't require Bi.exe, they work with vanilla RomeTW.exe as well

Does the Vanilla AI know how to use these abilities though? It would be disappointing if the AI never used it.:no:


Well, sort of. Far as I've noticed (even back with vanilla BI) what usually happens is that about the first one or two ranks bother to charge, while the rest pussyfoot some ten meters to the rear and slowly inch to contact.

I think that's related to how many ranks can engage(2, I think) the enemy at one time while in shieldwall.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Does the Vanilla AI know how to use these abilities though? It would be disappointing if the AI never used itSorry antisocialmunky, yet iamphet is, according to my testing, incorrect. Unfortunately I think that he may have mixed up the only way that shield wall can work with vanilla R:TW which, sadly, requires the use of the great BI exe. In my tests it causes a nasty CTD on the loading screen if used with the 1.5 exe - it's an awful shame, yet there is nothing that can be done to resolve it. Apologies.

[Blingerman]

Well I have installed EB with BI and I have manually added shield wall to overshoulder phalanx. Very cool and effective phalanx now. I can now play as Spartans . The problem is that in the UI although the button is fully functional there is no icon for the shield wall on/off. Which files should I transfer from Bi folder to EB in order to see the icons in the UI?
Thanks a lot

[Watchman]

"battlepage_03.tga" from \bi\data\ui\[culture]\interface; copy/paste over the equivalents in the appropriate EB folders (ie. \EB\data\ui\[culture]\interface). Mentioned in the "EB with BI.exe" thread in the Unofficial Mods subforum IIRC.

And backup the originals of course. Always backup the originals, just because.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Most BI features, including shield wall, can work with the vanilla RTW exe. It does however require a whole lot of extra work and remaking or stealling BI programming and textures for the vanilla exe.

I don't think the AI will use the shield wall. I have only ever seen it when they are desperately defending and then it one group doing it only. To represent greek classic hoplites, you would want them perminently stuck in that formation nearly.

[Watchman]

The poor AI is stuck with what the descr_formations_ai.txt tells it. Use Thorlof's modified Darth and Sinuhet formations from the Unofficial Mods subforum; the AI may not be very clever with it, but at least it uses the shieldwall with those.

Pretty much all the time with the units that can and have been picked as going "into the mode" by the formation settings, too, but them's the breaks. Those are kinda turtle-y when they do that, but can be surprisingly annoying at times. Especially to would-be flankers if they're lagging behind the main line as a sort of accidental counter.

[Olaf The Great]

Its not exactly perfect, but when you charge or run with your units I would recommend going out of formation

[antisocialmunky]

Charge and run out of formation is also helpful for manuevuering through units due to the density of the shield wall and it 'catching' on things.

[Cheexsta]

Most BI features, including shield wall, can work with the vanilla RTW exe.
Actually, BI unit formations are one of the few things that don't work with the 1.5 exe.

What I can recommend for people is to try giving phalanx units the short_pike attribute (but NOT phalanx!). This will force them into a phalanx-like block, and will even look like a phalanx for the most part but is capable of charging. When engaged, they do not break apart and attack the enemy individually (which happens to spear units in 1.5 even when in Guard mode). I haven't tested it personally on EB though.

[tigger_t]

(shieldwall and swimming don't require Bi.exe, they work with vanilla RomeTW.exe as well)



shield-wall=rtw-exe how?

[Zarax]

short_pike setting may have a problem (at least if associated with phalanx, never tried without) as cavalry seems to charge through units in that formation as if they had no mass (aka a frontal charge will leave an hole wherever it attacks)

[iamphet]

Well, tested again.
Shield wall in Extended Realism mod doesn't work with RomeTW.exe, but there is no CTD as well, just ignoring. Some units are able to swim.
SPQR mod replaces almost useless loose formation with shield wall.

[Quilts]

I don't think the AI will use the shield wall. I have only ever seen it when they are desperately defending and then it one group doing it only. To represent greek classic hoplites, you would want them perminently stuck in that formation nearly.
That can be resolved by only giving them one formation option ie- Shieldwall!

I think the option of giving units more than one formation choice is 'overutilised' at times. If a troop type fought a particular way, give them the most appropriate formation type to represent this.....and nothing else.

Simple :idea2:

Cheers,

Quilts

[Rilder]

I personally don't see the reason to give them shield wall, any Hoplitai on guard mode makes a good shield wall imo.

[Watchman]

Matter of taste of course, but IMHO the shieldwall mode does the "overlapping shields and bristling spears" act better.

[Kralizec]

Actually, BI unit formations are one of the few things that don't work with the 1.5 exe.

What I can recommend for people is to try giving phalanx units the short_pike attribute (but NOT phalanx!). This will force them into a phalanx-like block, and will even look like a phalanx for the most part but is capable of charging. When engaged, they do not break apart and attack the enemy individually (which happens to spear units in 1.5 even when in Guard mode). I haven't tested it personally on EB though.

I really liked that formation in RTR Platinum Edition. It doesn't have the "force field" effect of a normal phalanx so that enemies can actually close in for hand-to-hand combat, while the formation always stays close together even with guard mode off.
The downsides: it still looks like a vanilla short_pike phalanx, with the perfectly horizontal spears. Also if one of the guys in the back ranks starts fighting an enemy that has come around the flanks, he will still hold his spear at a 45 degree angle while making attack moves- looks rather stupid.


Well, sort of. Far as I've noticed (even back with vanilla BI) what usually happens is that about the first one or two ranks bother to charge, while the rest pussyfoot some ten meters to the rear and slowly inch to contact.


That usually happens with any unit that charges, unless they were already running. I assume shield walls can run, right?

[Barigos]

I'm afraid AI won't handle with units that don't have "square"(simple) formation.I tried leaving only "phalanx" formation attribute to some pikemen units(so they were always in phalanx) and more than a half of AI pikemen units got stucked and didn't move during battle.

[ElectricEel]

Well, sort of. Far as I've noticed (even back with vanilla BI) what usually happens is that about the first one or two ranks bother to charge, while the rest pussyfoot some ten meters to the rear and slowly inch to contact. This is not a shieldwall-specific issue. I've seen it happen in EB (playing with BI.exe) plenty of times.

[Watchman]

True, that. Looks kinda peculiar when those raving impetuous barbarian swordsmen do it too. ~D And the shieldwalls did it already back in BI as well. Still, it looks particularly jarring with that super-dense order.