Useful ambushes?

[Danest]

So, my Epirotes are unfortunately at war with the Seleukid juggernaut... worrying about the swarm of stacks coming at me, I decide to try ambushes. There's a little forest spot right outside Serdike, which I own right on the Seleukid border. So I put my stack in that forest, and the AI loves to try to invade Serdike, but has to pass through that forest. Great plan, I thought... except that I don't seem to be able to gain any advantages by ambushing. The enemy deploys in a long double line, so he has no flank, no rear. My ambushers can attack from both sides, but so what, since he's got units facing back to back. Am I missing something in the strategy of the ambush?

[Boyar Son]

Its not an effective ambush if they're not in a single line

[dutch81]

Yeah as he said the ambush just didn't work that is why he was able to prepare ... if it was a good ambush their whole army would be in a single column. Even if it was a good ambush I rarely find it has any better result then a well placed army. Good defense for me usually means finding a nice hill to fight off of ... or ofcourse a bridge if you have no army at all and the AI is sending streams of troops against you ... but this is almost a cheat because the AI is so poor at fighting bridge battles. Another thing I hate about ambushes is that you will be fighting in a forrest and the trees are so big you cannot see your army anymore so actually you end up giving an advantage to the AI, so I tend to avoid them altogether.

RTR had a mod available to bring the size down to realistic tree heights which made it more manageable. It might be a good mod for EB to look at as well to give players who like to play as the Germans a chance to actually see their units. It is one reason I never play as them. Also just like the Romans of old it is a place that my legions tend to stay out of ... if they cross the Rhine then I will slaughter them on a nice open field!

[Danest]

Eh, historically speaking, properly executed ambushes were sometimes practically the primary (if not only) means by which countless nations were able to seriously harm the Romans. So if RTW can't do really effective, devastating ambushes, that's a problem. Maybe there's a way to give the enemy a morale penalty when ambushed? I'd think being attacked suddenly, out of nowhere, could have a powerful effect on morale.

[antisocialmunky]

The enemy gets a morale penalty. The main problem is that there's not enough places to ambush. :-p However, Germania, Gaul and Britain are good for it.

[Danest]

Oh yeah, and heavy Phalangitai suck as ambushers. ;)

[antisocialmunky]

Not really, if you're playing against other heavy phalangitai. And Epirus has a little bit of everything including elephants and Illician uber-Thorakitai.

[Elminster12]

I find they work well if you have good skirmishers. Skirmishers really shine when emptying their ammo into a victim's back....

[Watchman]

Most units don't like getting charged in both flanks at once either. Especially if the general (usually to be found at the tip of the column IIRC) just got manhandled by whatever heavy stuff you had along that's now cheerfully rolling down the very confused column.

[Kugutsu]

:2thumbsup:
I'll second that. The germans in particular go to pieces once their general is dead, I have noticed. I keep getting heroic victories against their full stack, 1600 men armies, because I let their general get separated from his troops, then butcher him. The rest of the army then routs pretty fast once you charge them (I have a crack squad of equites gallorum whose main duty is slaughtering german full stacks as they send them across the Danube... Only 8 units, but they are the equal of all the german armies I have met so far. The lack of effective screening cavalry is really telling when fighting the germans. Which is handy, considering their penchent for large, frequent armies or fairly potent infantry. My cohors have a much harder time of it.

[-Praetor-]

Here`s a thread that exemplifies an ambush, and it`s a good place to get ideas in order to make better ambushes.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1464375#post1464375

Cheers!!!

[antisocialmunky]

:2thumbsup:
I'll second that. The germans in particular go to pieces once their general is dead, I have noticed. I keep getting heroic victories against their full stack, 1600 men armies, because I let their general get separated from his troops, then butcher him. The rest of the army then routs pretty fast once you charge them (I have a crack squad of equites gallorum whose main duty is slaughtering german full stacks as they send them across the Danube... Only 8 units, but they are the equal of all the german armies I have met so far. The lack of effective screening cavalry is really telling when fighting the germans. Which is handy, considering their penchent for large, frequent armies or fairly potent infantry. My cohors have a much harder time of it.

That goes for most Celts and N. Europeans in general. They have a bad tendency to chain rout while being beat down in a giant mass I've noticed(IE bridges, double envelopments, good ambushes, cities...).