Military: Suspected 9/11 mastermind confessed

[Shaka_Khan]

Military: Suspected 9/11 mastermind confessed

Transcripts show he claimed responsibility for planning 29 attacks

LINK (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17617986/)

Does this mean both this guy and Osama planned the attacks together?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

He was widely believed to have planned it? Why is everyone all "osama osama" then? ~:confused:

[Lemur]

Osama is not the mastermind of Al Qaeda. He is a face, a voice, and a "inspirational" leader. Ayman Al-Zawahiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Zawahiri) is widely considered to be the brains of the outfit. Al Qaeda had nothing to show for itself but a string of defeats and a lot of wasted money until Al-Zawahiri and his Islamic Jihad pals merged with them. If you're interested in understanding the enemy, I can't recommend The Looming Tower (http://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/037541486X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-4102218-1534256?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173923582&sr=8-1) too highly. It's the comprehensive work on the subject, and its sourcing is a thing of beauty.

Apparently KSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed) was implicated some time ago as the mastermind of the 9/11 hijacking plot. The news is that he confessed in front of a tribunal.

[ShadeHonestus]

Get your tin hats on...soon will come the revelations that he was a member of the secret Bush society or the Masons....or wait, even better, a patsy. Where is Michael Moore when you need him, surely somebody here will step up...


BTW, is he wearing the al-Qaida version of the "wife-beater"?

[Lemur]

He would be wearing the orange coveralls that detainees wear in Guantanamo. Don't think a wife-beater is included.

Interesting detail (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/us/15gitmo.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp):


Mr. Mohammed indicated in the transcript that some of his earlier statements to C.I.A. interrogators were the result of torture. But he said that his statements at the tribunal on Saturday were not made under duress or pressure.

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

He would be wearing the orange coveralls that detainees wear in Guantanamo. Don't think a wife-beater is included.

Interesting detail (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/us/15gitmo.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp):


Mr. Mohammed indicated in the transcript that some of his earlier statements to C.I.A. interrogators were the result of torture. But he said that his statements at the tribunal on Saturday were not made under duress or pressure.

i don't see what he has to gain from admitting anything at all, they are going to neck him regardless of what happens at the "trial", mock trial that is. :hanged:

p.s i didn't know wife beaters was an international thing... i thought that was an aussie thing... guess you learn something pointless everyday...

[Ja'chyra]

So if this is true what does it prove?

If you torture someone for long enough they'll admit to anything? Or

It's justified to lock up loads of people to find the one guilty one? Or

Bush and Gitmo was the way to go after all, and all us foreigners can kiss US butt, who cares if we illegally detained your citizens? Or

D - None of the above

[Banquo's Ghost]

"..... and I admit to being on the grassy knoll, planning to abduct and violate Mary Poppins and to being an agent of Goldstein."

:shame:

[caravel]

i don't see what he has to gain from admitting anything at all, they are going to neck him regardless of what happens at the "trial", mock trial that is. :hanged:
Infamy? Martyrdom etc...

[Adrian II]

"..... and I admit to being on the grassy knoll, planning to abduct and violate Mary Poppins and to being an agent of Goldstein."

:shame:Sorry, but I already confessed to that last week. And not, I am happy to declare, under any torture or duress. No Sir.

[econ21]

I share BG's skepticism about this. Fessing up to 9/11 is one thing - someone masterminded it afterall. But I just don't find it plausible that one man was responsible for so many other high profile attacks. Its just too neat and tidy. And perversely one reason I don't believe it is that implies the counter-terrorism services are too incompetent. If global terrorism was this centralised, it would not be so hard to beat.

But what do I know? May be it is true. In which case, the CIA, FBI, MI6 etc should all be closed down for being utterly useless.


Mohammed said he was involved in planning the 2002 bombing of a Kenya beach resort frequented by Israelis and the failed missile attack on an Israeli passenger jet after it took off from Mombasa, Kenya. He also said he was responsible for the bombing of a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia. In 2002, 202 were killed when two Bali nightclubs were bombed.

....

He also claimed he shared responsibility for assassination attempts against Pope John Paul II and Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf.

In all, Mohammed said he was responsible for planning 28 attacks and assisting in three others. The comments were included in a 26-page transcript released by the Pentagon, which blacked out some of his remarks.

[Husar]

I always though my grandpa from my mother's side died when I was one year old but when I saw that pic.....from the pics I remember that could be my grandfather, I think.:inquisitive:

[BDC]

Of course, as it's a closed trial no one will ever believe this. Whether he did it or not is rather irrelevant, America will get its bogey man, although no one will ever be really sure if it was just a set up or not. Kids will probably do history projects on it in 50 years.

[ezrider]

Holding a guy for 4 years in Gitmo is bound to make anyone admit to anything. Even that he he wasn't tortured and all his statements were his own.

I suppose the main reasons have to do with tangible results for the WOT, a justification of Gitmo and this statement is, at least, another dose of scare stories to keep the Doubting Thomases in line.

Why would Al Qaeda want to kill Jimmy Carter? What did he ever do to anyone?

[Idaho]

After 4 year in Gtmo, I wouldn't be suprised if he confessed to wearing women's underwear whilst doing the vaccuming. What's the point of this?

Another own-goal by the US government.

[econ21]

Why would Al Qaeda want to kill Jimmy Carter? What did he ever do to anyone?

I don't know - maybe Camp David? Egypt making peace with Israel is a big issue for Middle East extremists and cost Sadat his life.

Also, it may be like targeting the Pope or 9/11 itself - committing some particularly outrageous acts of terrorism help generate the backlash that the extremists feed off.

[KukriKhan]

One more paving stone on the road to "Global War on Terrorism; WE WON!!" -ville, a made-for-TVnews movie, coming to your living room in August '08, just in time for US elections?

[Devastatin Dave]

BTW, is he wearing the al-Qaida version of the "wife-beater"?
He kinda looks like Ron Jeremy to me. I wonder if they've got a "money shot"?

[Devastatin Dave]

So if this is true what does it prove?

If you torture someone for long enough they'll admit to anything? Or

It's justified to lock up loads of people to find the one guilty one? Or

Bush and Gitmo was the way to go after all, and all us foreigners can kiss US butt, who cares if we illegally detained your citizens? Or

D - None of the above
You forgot E) You'll always find a liberal somewhere to defend any terrorist.

[BDC]

You forgot E) You'll always find a liberal somewhere to defend any terrorist.
Heh.

He might actually be guilty after all. That wouldn't explain the need for a secret trial to convict him then though.

Damn US government. If you have the right man, try him properly. Don't make it look like he isn't the right man, panic, and sit on him for four years before trying him in secret. No one will ever believe you.

[ShadeHonestus]

He kinda looks like Ron Jeremy to me. I wonder if they've got a "money shot"?

lawl

[ajaxfetish]

Heh.

He might actually be guilty after all. That wouldn't explain the need for a secret trial to convict him then though.

Damn US government. If you have the right man, try him properly. Don't make it look like he isn't the right man, panic, and sit on him for four years before trying him in secret. No one will ever believe you.
That's the thing I don't like about it. I support hunting and trying terrorists, but these methods are seriously flawed.

Ajax

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Damn US government. If you have the right man, try him properly. Don't make it look like he isn't the right man, panic, and sit on him for four years before trying him in secret. No one will ever believe you.

I understand your preference for an open trial. In the main, justice is best served in public. A public trial, however, would also involve a public defense and cross-examination during which his defense might provide numerous insights into any penetration agents we may have, persons we have co-opted, etc. Intelligence-sensitive trials are often conducted under "secret" restrictions -- a necessary limitation, however regrettable.

[Goofball]

He kinda looks like Ron Jeremy to me. I wonder if they've got a "money shot"?

Thank you! I knew he reminded me of somebody but couldn't put my finger on it. It's been bugging me all morning.

[Lemur]

A public trial, however, would also involve a public defense and cross-examination during which his defense might provide numerous insights into any penetration agents we may have, persons we have co-opted, etc. Intelligence-sensitive trials are often conducted under "secret" restrictions -- a necessary limitation, however regrettable.
Hmm, intel has a shelf life, and it ain't indefinite. We've been holding this guy for how long? Three years or so? I guess there's an outside chance that something could come up at his trial that's still relevant on the ground. Unlikely, but possible. It seems rather more likely that our government finds it expedient to hold secret trials when permitted. Who in their right mind wants to put up with a public trial if they don't have to?

And DevDave, :flowers:

[Tribesman]

I understand your preference for an open trial. In the main, justice is best served in public. A public trial, however, would also involve a public defense and cross-examination during which his defense might provide numerous insights into any penetration agents we may have, persons we have co-opted, etc. Intelligence-sensitive trials are often conducted under "secret" restrictions -- a necessary limitation, however regrettable.

A very good point Seamus , especially considering that one of the people already convicted of a crime that Khalid has apparently admited to seems to have worked for both Britains MI6 and Pakistans ISI .

[Xiahou]

Hmm, intel has a shelf life, and it ain't indefinite. We've been holding this guy for how long? Three years or so? I guess there's an outside chance that something could come up at his trial that's still relevant on the ground. Unlikely, but possible. It seems rather more likely that our government finds it expedient to hold secret trials when permitted. Who in their right mind wants to put up with a public trial if they don't have to?You honestly think that human intelligence resources, technology and methodologies only have "shelf life" of less than 3yrs? Exactly how long, then, is it until a covert officer or informant has exceeded their shelf life? I would've thought that a covert agent has a career that spans more than 3yrs- apparently you know better. How long should it be before they're drug into a public courtroom and put on national TV to explain exactly what they did and who their contacts were? Less than 3 years obviously. :dizzy2:

So, let's assume for just a second you're right- does that mean suspects should be held until this "shelf life" has expired and then tried openly? Or should they be tried sooner in secret? I'm really interested in your answers....

[BDC]

There should be more evidence against someone than just some paid informer's statements. You know, to prove they are guilty.

Besides Afghanistan and al-Qaeda have been so thoroughly gutted recently I doubt many people are left in useful roles.

[Bijo]

Military: Suspected 9/11 mastermind confessed

Transcripts show he claimed responsibility for planning 29 attacks

LINK (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17617986/)

Does this mean both this guy and Osama planned the attacks together?
That article is useless, as many are. There's no way for the ordinary (or not so ordinary) person to know whether the information therein is based on truth. There are so many things we don't know, and so many possibilities, that there's one thing we can always conclude for sure in such cases: we don't know. We can at least be very suspicious about authorities and information, as they're still controlled by humans who might have "certain agendas" to fulfil.

:2cents:

[Tribesman]

You honestly think that human intelligence resources, technology and methodologies only have "shelf life" of less than 3yrs?
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Way to miss the point Xiahou .:dizzy2:
Its apparently 48 hrs isn't it , after their capture has become known:yes:
Though you have a point about methodology and technology . Both of which have evolved leaps and bounds since the capture , leaps and bound on very big springy stilts you could say .
Hey this nut is probably using technology and methodology from those things you used to tout quite often here as "Al-qaida" manuals proving saddams links to Osama:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: remember the book written by a US special forces sergeant and the book bought from a Californian survivalist bookstore:dizzy2:
So your point was that the methods and technology are just sooooo last season wasn't it :oops:
Damn that shelf life , I wonder if they are still in print in America , it could have saved a whole heap of money if the investigators had just bought the books .

So now for "shelf life" of operatives who are not captured , those that just change jobs.....errrrr...thats 5 years isn't it

[ShadeHonestus]

We can at least be very suspicious about authorities and information, as they're still controlled by humans who might have "certain agendas" to fulfil.


As we should be equally suspicious of any suspicion of the authorities and information as they are human and largely the unwashed masses who have either their own agendas or those given to them.

3.5 cents

[edit]
To those involved in the discussion of "shelf life".

The point is not methodologies or technologies. The point is in the preservation of assets. The reason you don't post interrogations and intel received from detainees is not to conceal what you don't know or your methods for obtaining either the detainee or the information. The point is that you do not wish the target groups to know what you know and what information you have obtained. Why compromise the intelligence at the moment of obtaining it....that's laughable. Even in a target network which no doubt recognizes which information can be potentially compromised it is rarely ever completely covered and that's where the intelligence battle is fought, in the details in the minutia and in their trends. Let alone opening a detainee up for cross examination. If you cannot fathom the fallout of that, I have some pond water rights in Chernobyl I will sell you.

[Lemur]

You honestly think that human intelligence resources, technology and methodologies only have "shelf life" of less than 3yrs?
If I meant to say that, I'm perfectly capable of typing it on my own. Thanks for your offer of transcription, though.

Exactly how long, then, is it until a covert officer or informant has exceeded their shelf life? I would've thought that a covert agent has a career that spans more than 3yrs- apparently you know better. How long should it be before they're drug into a public courtroom and put on national TV to explain exactly what they did and who their contacts were? Less than 3 years obviously.
Sigh. Let me answer a question with a question -- which seems mroe likely to you, (a) that openly trying KSM would compromise our ongoing intel activities, (b) an open trial is impossible, since so much evidence was gathered using what you may or may not accept to be "torture," or (c) that it's really convenient to not hold an open trial if one doesn't have to.

As for your amazement and incredulity that intel has a shelf life, yes, clearly that's the mad spewings of a liberal mind. No serious intelligence professional would ever suggest such a thing. It's obvious that I must have been smoking the combined works of Michael Moore and Air America. Please, resrtain me from any further acts of insanity.

[Xiahou]

If I meant to say that, I'm perfectly capable of typing it on my own. Thanks for your offer of transcription, though.I know, since you did type it.
Hmm, intel has a shelf life, and it ain't indefinite. We've been holding this guy for how long? Three years or so? I guess there's an outside chance that something could come up at his trial that's still relevant on the ground. Unlikely, but possible.


Sigh. Let me answer a question with a question -- which seems mroe likely to you, (a) that openly trying KSM would compromise our ongoing intel activities, (b) an open trial is impossible, since so much evidence was gathered using what you may or may not accept to be "torture," or (c) that it's really convenient to not hold an open trial if one doesn't have to.I'd say all of the above.


As for your amazement and incredulity that intel has a shelf life, yes, clearly that's the mad spewings of a liberal mind. No serious intelligence professional would ever suggest such a thing. It's obvious that I must have been smoking the combined works of Michael Moore and Air America. Please, resrtain me from any further acts of insanity.Right, and his lawyers, in a full and open trial under US courts, would be completely satisfied with a few relevant intel reports. They certainly wouldn't demand to question people from the intelligence agency, including covert agents about their information gathering techniques or who their contacts are. Of course they wouldn't- let's have that public trial. :dizzy2:

[Lemur]

Right, and his lawyers, in a full and open trial under US courts, would be completely satisfied with a few relevant intel reports. They certainly wouldn't demand to question people from the intelligence agency, including covert agents about their information gathering techniques or who their contacts are. Of course they wouldn't- let's have that public trial.
That's a pretty good point. Of all the people we have in custody, KSM is probably one of the few who really can't have an open trial. You'll have to forgive me for being suspicious, however. When it comes to torture, secrecy and extension of executive power, I'm not willing to give this administration any benefit of the doubt.

As for your amazement and incredulity over the concept of intel shelf life, I think you know perfectly well what I was talking about, and have chosen to leap on the point to be quarrelsome. You cloaked a fair point in extreme rhetoric.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It's obvious that I must have been smoking the combined works of Michael Moore and Air America.

And I thought all of that stuff was useless garbage....live and learn.



If there is any irony in this, it is that the Bush administration is preserving secrecy here so as not to compromise intelligence assets, but were (at least according to one jury) far sloppier about the legally mandated "shelf life" time for keeping our covert intelligence operatives covert.:devilish:


X-man is right, I believe, that 3 years is probably not enough time for this intelligence to have run past its expiry date. Lemur is also correct, however, in that there probably is one.


Tribes', info on where our own efforts have been suborned by AQ etc. is some of the most crucial stuff to learn and protect -- and not simply to avoid embarassment.

[Devastatin Dave]

EDIT: Or, put another way - :flowers: BG

[Devastatin Dave]

If there is any irony in this, it is that the Bush administration is preserving secrecy here so as not to compromise intelligence assets, but were (at least according to one jury) far sloppier about the legally mandated "shelf life" time for keeping our covert intelligence operatives covert.:devilish:

.
Plame was about as covert as Jenna Jamison's hoohaa on the internet.

[Devastatin Dave]

And DevDave, Ann Coulter is on the phone, and she says she wants her fishnet stockings back ...

Wait a minute...
Why was my post edited but Lemur's stays. His post suggest that I cross dress. It is more offensive than what I wrote. I know that cross dressing is a badge of honor for liberals like killing unborn children, cuddling up to terrorists, or having anal sex with various farm animals in the name of diversity, but if my posts gets edited so should his. :2thumbsup:

Love you Lemur...

[Banquo's Ghost]

Actually Dave, I read Lemur's post as implying that Ms Coulter and you might be having a liaison, which might have been pleasing to you.

I see now that as a Euroweenie inexperienced in the ways of American gender politics, I was mistaken. Thank you for the benefit of your greater insights into the world of partisan cross-dressing.

:bow:

[Devastatin Dave]

Actually Dave, I read Lemur's post as implying that Ms Coulter and you might be having a liaison, which might have been pleasing to you.

I see now that as a Euroweenie inexperienced in the ways of American gender politics, I was mistaken. Thank you for the benefit of your greater insights into the world of partisan cross-dressing.

:bow:
But just to clarify, I do look rather stunning in fishnets and 3 inch heels.:yes:

[Banquo's Ghost]

But just to clarify, I do look rather stunning in fishnets and 3 inch heels.:yes:

Be still, my beating heart.

(And now we return you to your regularly scheduled thread).

[Hosakawa Tito]

I share BG's skepticism about this. Fessing up to 9/11 is one thing - someone masterminded it afterall. But I just don't find it plausible that one man was responsible for so many other high profile attacks. Its just too neat and tidy. And perversely one reason I don't believe it is that implies the counter-terrorism services are too incompetent. If global terrorism was this centralised, it would not be so hard to beat.

But what do I know? May be it is true. In which case, the CIA, FBI, MI6 etc should all be closed down for being utterly useless.

Perhaps KSM is overstating his leetness, bragging before his like minded friends, either to appear more important, spread disinformation to help protect others..... I see it all the time when investigating gang members in the jail.

[ShadeHonestus]

Perhaps KSM is overstating his leetness, bragging before his like minded friends, either to appear more important, spread disinformation to help protect others..... I see it all the time when investigating gang members in the jail.

He's kept that tooth fairy racket guarded pretty closely. I doubt the other tooth fairies will get a transcript.

[Tribesman]

Oh well it had to happen didn't it , now that KSM has confessed to all those crimes ,the people already convicted of being the ones who did those crimes are appealing against their convictions , since obviously it cannot have been them as someone else has now confessed and they don't know him .
Way to go Guantanamo :tomato:

[ShadeHonestus]

Oh well it had to happen didn't it , now that KSM has confessed to all those crimes ,the people already convicted of being the ones who did those crimes are appealing against their convictions , since obviously it cannot have been them as someone else has now confessed and they don't know him .
Way to go Guantanamo :tomato:


List appeals, all convictions, time served. Preferably in all their primary source glory.

Unfortunately, if we caught Osama you'd say he was innocent. Indeed, if we were to catch a hijacker in the act of rushing the cockpit with a flight plan to the sears tower, a flight manual, dynamite strapped to his chest, an AK in one hand, a machete in the other you'd claim he was an innocent man only chasing the beverage cart for another Heineken.

:tomato:

[Tribesman]

Unfortunately, if we caught Osama you'd say he was innocent
Such a stupid thing to say :thumbsdown:


List appeals, all convictions, time served. Preferably in all their primary source glory.

Nah you can look for yourself , it easy to do , the convictions are from 2002 , the new appeals were lodged today the convictions are for kidnap and murder the sentances are death for 1 and life imprisonment for 3 others .

[ShadeHonestus]

Such a stupid thing to say

So if he was caught, housed at Gitmo and later confessed to many acts of terrorism, you're saying that you'd accept it?



Nah you can look for yourself , it easy to do , the convictions are from 2002 , the new appeals were lodged today the convictions are for kidnap and murder the sentances are death for 1 and life imprisonment for 3 others .

Names at least? Or should I search for "the tribesman 4"?

[Tribesman]

So if he was caught, housed at Gitmo and later confessed to many acts of terrorism, you're saying that you'd accept it?

Hey you follow up one silly statement with another , congratulations:thumbsdown:


Names at least? Or should I search for "the tribesman 4"?
Hey it ain't hard is it , in his spate of admitting to just about every newsheadlineworthy terror attack in the decade prior to his capture he only admitted to one kidnap and murder case didn't he:yes: Its right at the start of the newsarticle that opened this thread isn't it:yes:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[ShadeHonestus]

Hey you follow up one silly statement with another , congratulations:thumbsdown:

Hey you follow one avoidance with another, congratulations. :dizzy2:



Hey it ain't hard is it , in his spate of admitting to just about every newsheadlineworthy terror attack in the decade prior to his capture he only admitted to one kidnap and murder case didn't he:yes: Its right at the start of the newsarticle that opened this thread isn't it:yes:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Yet you were unable to comment on them in name, appeal, time served nor any facts of their cases besides a cursory Tribesman statement.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :laugh4: :laugh4:

emoticon discussion is fun

[Navaros]

Osama was the mastermind, not this guy.

This is just more propaganda from the US government.

Like when USA Marines murdered over 20 unarmed Iraqi civilians including women and children at Haditha, the government made sure that massacre was "reported" as 15 civilians dying in a car bomb.

Like how the USA had to have Saddam murdered instead of giving him a real trial, because they knew if they gave him a real trial then all the "dirt" about USA's own crimes would be brought to light.

I wonder if the media will ever start scrutinizing propaganda like this instead of taking it at face value.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Osama was the mastermind, not this guy.

This is just more propaganda from the US government.

Like when USA Marines murdered over 20 unarmed Iraqi civilians including women and children at Haditha, the government made sure that massacre was "reported" as 15 civilians dying in a car bomb.

Like how the USA had to have Saddam murdered instead of giving him a real trial, because they knew if they gave him a real trial then all the "dirt" about USA's own crimes would be brought to light.

I wonder if the media will ever start scrutinizing propaganda like this instead of taking it at face value.

Shush.......

If you attempt to thwart their plans, the tri-lateralists will have you purged.

Besides, you know that the real Saddam is being held at the Greenbriar so we can have him re-appear and take power in case we need to redo the invasion (Haliburton's costs for the Dhubai move must be recouped!).


:wiseguy:

[Tribesman]

Hey you follow one avoidance with another, congratulations.
Its not an avoidance Shades its just that your statement is too silly to merit a proper response .


Yet you were unable to comment on them in name, appeal, time served nor any facts of their cases besides a cursory Tribesman statement. :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
A cursory statement was entirely sufficient , since I have already mentioned the case on the first page , the new appeal is just a development of that event .
Oh and since you must be a little bad with maths then would you like some help with the time served bit ? lets see errrr... the convictions are from 2002 and the year now is 2007 so if we add them together it must be 4009 right ...damn this maths is harder than I thought since that doesn't seem right , oh of course its only March now and it was July then so you can take 4 months off the 4009 , then again they were in custody since March so you can forget about taking it off ....so yep definately 4009:yes:

[ShadeHonestus]

Its not an avoidance Shades its just that your statement is too silly to merit a proper response .


Well then comment as a member of the literate and explain your position as it pertains to each. :oops: Thats not in your doctrine of half truths and preferred state of broil greater than the MC at San Fran's last gay pride parade.




Oh and since you must be a little bad with maths then would you like some help with the time served bit ? lets see errrr... the convictions are from 2002 and the year now is 2007 so if we add them together it must be 4009 right ...damn this maths is harder than I thought since that doesn't seem right , oh of course its only March now and it was July then so you can take 4 months off the 4009 , then again they were in custody since March so you can forget about taking it off ....so yep definately 4009:yes:

Its not at all surprising that you take more time writing this than your supposed grasp of the cases and their context. This must go down in history as the Tribesman Code. A masterful procedure for the procurement of truth and creation of fact. :yes:

[Adrian II]

... so yep definately 4009:yes:Enough with the smileys, they hurt my eyes.

Don't you think it is interesting, Tribesman, that terroirism suspects and even terrorism convicts in Pakistan such as Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh have more rights than American detainees in Guantanamo? In this respect Pakistani law and justice are a shining example for the good old U.S. of A.

Who knows, the truth in the murder case of Daniel Pearl may eventually transpire thanks to the superior justice system of our esteemed ally, the tribal theocracy of Pakistan.

[Tribesman]

Well then comment as a member of the literate and explain your position as it pertains to each.
OK ....Unfortunately, if we caught Osama you'd say he was innocent
Such a stupid nonsensical thing to say , it really is a bit of a bollox statement that doesn't merit any thoughtful reply .
Is that better ?
Hey you follow one avoidance with another, congratulations.
I refer the honourable member to my earlier response:laugh4:


Its not at all surprising that you take more time writing this than your supposed grasp of the cases and their context.
Hey its you who cannot grasp the context and implications the confessions have on already existing and any future convictions .
Though with this statement He's kept that tooth fairy racket guarded pretty closely. I doubt the other tooth fairies will get a transcript. you do show that you should have some grasp of it , and lets face it the large part of this topic follows the same course ....
Perhaps KSM is overstating his leetness, bragging before his like minded friends, either to appear more important, spread disinformation to help protect others
"..... and I admit to being on the grassy knoll, planning to abduct and violate Mary Poppins and to being an agent of Goldstein."

Sorry, but I already confessed to that last week. And not, I am happy to declare, under any torture or duress. No Sir.

I just don't find it plausible that one man was responsible for so many other high profile attacks. Its just too neat and tidy. And perversely one reason I don't believe it is that implies the counter-terrorism services are too incompetent. If global terrorism was this centralised, it would not be so hard to beat.

Holding a guy for 4 years in Gitmo is bound to make anyone admit to anything.
I wouldn't be suprised if he confessed to wearing women's underwear whilst doing the vaccuming.
And notice especially considering that one of the people already convicted of a crime that Khalid has apparently admited to seems to have worked for both Britains MI6 and Pakistans ISI .

[Tribesman]

Don't you think it is interesting, Tribesman, that terroirism suspects and even terrorism convicts in Pakistan such as Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh have more rights than American detainees in Guantanamo? In this respect Pakistani law and justice are a shining example for the good old U.S. of A.

Wellllllllll just possibly :yes:
But what do you think of the allegtions that in his earlier kidnapping trial the defense lawyers were paid for by the Pakistani intelligence service that he apparently worked for ?
Pakistans role in supporting national and international terrorism and supporting the war on terror are just so bloody confusing .:wall:

[Adrian II]

Wellllllllll just possibly :yes:
But what do you think of the allegtions that in his earlier kidnapping trial the defense lawyers were paid for by the Pakistani intelligence service that he apparently worked for ?
Pakistans role in supporting national and international terrorism and supporting the war on terror are just so bloody confusing .:wall:I know, I know..

But hear this, his appeal has been postponed because .. he had no lawyers!

It seems that under tribal theocratic law, terrorism suspects and even terrorism convicts are entitled to independent counsel. Just like in a democracy.

[Tribesman]

But hear this, his appeal has been postponed because .. he had no lawyers!

Nah that was the original appeal thats been postponed several times , they is going for a new one as well so that can be postponed few times too .
Then again since the lawyers are on the streets battling the police over political sackings I did wonder how they managed to stop rioting long enough to draw up the new papers , but hey you know lawyers , they must have been getting paid and lets face it a big international newsheadline confession does make their paperwork easy .:2thumbsup:

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

I think that Pakistan is trying to make sure that the process of fighting their part in the war on terror as clear and as fair as possible to try make sure they don't inflame the west of the country too much... whilst still appearing/helping the US as well as to not enrage they major sponsor. if the trials in gitmo were as fast in coming and as "fair" as the ones in pakistan people would not be nearly as opposed to the process. torture is still to be deplored in all its forms.

[ShadeHonestus]

So you believe the only evidence against him in all cases are his confessions? Relying solely on your measure for what is plausible it seems... Afterall, he did not admit to be being on 2nd shooter in Texas...but acts actually relevant to his position.



Oh and you never answered the question pertaining to whether or not you would indeed believe Osama's confession should he be housed at Gitmo? Just how much would you believe? Would you only believe those things that you already know he is guilty of or could there be more beyond your current understanding? If your understanding is that great, why don't we just convict, in absentia, the tooth fairy, the 2nd shooter, KSM etc...based upon your confessions here in knowledge of what is or isn't of truth. If the U.S. was to take your omnipotent position of what is true and what is not, they need not bother with any press releases at all about anything.

[Adrian II]

Nah that was the original appeal thats been postponed several times , they is going for a new one as well so that can be postponed few times too .Either that, or Mr Omar Sheikh will forcibly have to meet an untimely end in Pakistani custody.

I mean it wouldn't do, would it, to let the Yanks parade KSM as the perpetrator of all things evil and have a long-standing ISI-agent in Pakistani detention simultaneously fessing up to some of the same crimes, such as transferring $100.000 to Mohamed Atta on behalf of ISI's chief General Mahmood, kidnapping and killing Daniel Pearl or organising a bloody attack on the Indian parliament in December 2001 with ISI-backing.

People might start to think for themselves. Can't have that.

[Tribesman]

People might start to think for themselves. Can't have that.

Oh god no , perish the thought old boy , what would the world come to then ?
Hey come to think of it wasn't it the ISI who caught KSM and gave him the yanks :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:


I think that Pakistan is trying to make sure that the process of fighting their part in the war on terror as clear and as fair as possible to try make sure they don't inflame the west of the country too much
That would be the north north east and north west , the ones in the west are fighting over the oil mainly .

[Adrian II]

Hey come to think of it wasn't it the ISI who caught KSM and gave him the yanks?Well, the FBI was there to take care of the packaging. You know, the FBI? The organisation that has been left out of the loop of every database, interrogation, foreign intel operation and major anti-terrorism coup since 9/11.

EDIT
I guess some members will be at a loss as to what the hell Tribesman and I are getting at. It comes down to this.

Whatever he was, Daniel Pearl was getting a bit too close to the truth for Pakistani comfort. If he was a CIA agent, damn Langley for being so stupid as to send a Jew with an American passport into that hornet's nest. If he was a regular WSJ reporter, he was certainly a very courageous man. In either case, there was no legitimate reason to kill him, though in ISI eyes there bloody well was. They had two options. One: bag him and send him back to the US as a non grata, which would have reflected very badly on Musharraf's regime. Two: let some ISI agent like Omar Sheikh take care of Pearl, make it look like an Al Qaida operation, and make it extremely nasty and public so as to discourage any future prying by either journalists or spies.

[Tribesman]

I guess some members will be at a loss as to what the hell Tribesman and I are getting at
Well they would have been at even more of a loss if you hadn't started naming names:furious3: you ruin some of my fun Adrian :laugh4:

Now then Shadehonestius if KSM had confessed to being the one steering the boat when it exploded against the Cole would you believe it ?
What about if he said it was him that bombed Birmingham and Guildford ? How about if he personaly with his right hand decapitated PC Blakelock .
Oh and if you want to look the last couple of things there you will find they have something in common with this topic .
I wonder what it could be ? its elementary my dear:holmes:

[ShadeHonestus]

Well they would have been at even more of a loss if you hadn't started naming names:furious3: you ruin some of my fun Adrian :laugh4:

Now then Shadehonestius if KSM had confessed to being the one steering the boat when it exploded against the Cole would you believe it ?
What about if he said it was him that bombed Birmingham and Guildford ? How about if he personaly with his right hand decapitated PC Blakelock .
Oh and if you want to look the last couple of things there you will find they have something in common with this topic .
I wonder what it could be ? its elementary my dear:holmes:


Delusionary tribes people? And yet you still don't answer the questions, but I'll forgo the exercise to get any concise thoughts from you as one of futility, and for the sake of decency.

[Tribesman]

Such a pity:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:


And yet you still don't answer the questions
Hey shades you got an answer to your questions.....Such a stupid nonsensical thing to say , it really is a bit of a bollox statement that doesn't merit any thoughtful reply .
is the answer to two attempts at the same question , and the other question has been addressed though several posts , though I won't provide you with an easy link to a primary or even secondary source , its all over the internet and all over the news , if you cannot find it yourself then that really says a lot .:smash:


but I'll forgo the exercise to get any concise thoughts from you as one of futility
awww havn't you noticed , I only do concise when I feel it is needed for complicated obscure things , cryptic is quite sufficient for something this easily accesible . The idea is to tax your mind , broaden your knowledge of the subject yourself and piece the bits together .:yes:

Oh BTW could a mod delete the last post (to lemur) , it ended up in the wrong topic

[ShadeHonestus]

etc etc etc etc etc

So flametardation is equal to literate and legible responses? Obvious since you can't let this die or let it go to PM's as suggested...flamenation is your citizenship.

Being cryptic without substance is refuge for the unwashed flamer.

I'll be damned...if it weren't for stating the moronic in the overt, I would say you're prime for political office. I will answer nothing, but will state something irrelevant to change what people think the nature of the question was. Oh look at the pretty kitty everyone...

[Banquo's Ghost]

Oh BTW could a mod delete the last post (to lemur) , it ended up in the wrong topic

Done.

Gentlemen, please desist from winding each other up. It's already been a lively evening, I don't need you two stressing out my daisy smiley. :wink:

[ShadeHonestus]

Gentlemen, please desist from winding each other up. It's already been a lively evening, I don't need you two stressing out my daisy smiley. :wink:


Okay, I'm done stressing out the mods. *nervous twitch*

[Devastatin Dave]

Done.

Gentlemen, please desist from winding each other up. It's already been a lively evening, I don't need you two stressing out my daisy smiley. :wink:
Naughty Boy...:whip: :knuddel:

[Tribesman]

Gentlemen, please desist from winding each other up. It's already been a lively evening, I don't need you two stressing out my daisy smiley
Well something there needs a reply :shrug:

So flametardation is equal to literate and legible responses? Obvious since you can't let this die or let it go to PM's as suggested...flamenation is your citizenship.

oooooo nasty :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Being cryptic without substance is refuge for the unwashed flamer.

Trying to be nasty again , but just because you cannot see the substance it doesn't mean it isn't there , perhaps its just too hard for you to grasp it :yes:


I'll be damned...if it weren't for stating the moronic in the overt, I would say you're prime for political office. I will answer nothing, but will state something irrelevant to change what people think the nature of the question was.
moronic , its you who placed the silly statement , and nothing I stated was irrelevant , you just cannot put it together .
Go on you know you can , one last try just for daddy .....make the connection between the title of the subject , the direction of the subject and .....What about if he said it was him that bombed Birmingham and Guildford ? How about if he personaly with his right hand decapitated PC Blakelock .
Oh and if you want to look the last couple of things there you will find they have something in common with this topic .
I wonder what it could be ? its elementary my dear
It really is elementary:yes: you don't even need a deerstalker and an opium habit to work that one out , but heres one just in case you need it:holmes:

or perhaps you can try and work out why this....Unfortunately, if we caught Osama you'd say he was innocent. Indeed, if we were to catch a hijacker in the act of rushing the cockpit with a flight plan to the sears tower, a flight manual, dynamite strapped to his chest, an AK in one hand, a machete in the other you'd claim he was an innocent man only chasing the beverage cart for another Heineken.
is such a silly statement , thats a really easy one that shouldn't tax your mind too much .

[ShadeHonestus]

etc etc etc

Was that all one sentence or did you mean the emotes as punctuation? Your attempt to make a connect the dots game may work on your lead laden constituency, but I prefer a yes or a no with an accompanying explanation if necessary. I guess answering a question with a question was the only day you weren't sick when they taught the art of conversation.

[Watchman]

Eh, that's just Tribesy's idiosyncratic way of posting. Don't let it fool you, he's actually a pretty sharp if irritating and cryptic cookie.

'Course, he can be pretty mean too.

[ShadeHonestus]

Don't let it fool you, he's actually a pretty sharp


I have little doubt that he is, however he seems to lack the desire to embrace it...



if irritating and cryptic cookie.


Much like reading a fortune cookie written by the one manufacturer who employs only those who are constantly at sixes and sevens with reality...and not allowed medication.

[Watchman]

Let's just say that I tend to be glad I'm on his side. :sweatdrop:

[Tribesman]

I guess answering a question with a question was the only day you weren't sick when they taught the art of conversation.

Wow people have to get taught conversation where you come from !!!!!!!!!! Bloody hell :jawdrop:

[Watchman]

:laugh4:
See what I mean ?

[ShadeHonestus]

:laugh4:
See what I mean ?

completely missed it didn't you... wow

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

[QUOTE=Watchman]:laugh4:
See what I mean ?[/QUOTE

say what you will; the man has a point...
people who want all the answers feed to them in little bite size bits, so they can understand things without the slightest effort to research things or put them together themselves... :cheerleader: :stupido:

[Watchman]

completely missed it didn't you... wowOh, I'm just used to Mr. T-Man. :Mr-T:

[KukriKhan]

80 posts. 30 of them sparring between 2 posters. Little light, much heat. Little signal, much static.

"Topic is tired and needs a nap".

Thanks to all contributors :bow: