View Full Version : Extensive new buildings project

03-17-2007, 14:26
Extensive Building Project

The aim of the project is to change the rtw building tree for a new multiple choice possibility of development.
Actually, one building leads to a single development; and not always upgrades are closely related each other. For instance, sewers develop in baths, and this is not a logic consequence, neither you have the possibility to choose another possible development.

Our idea is to give the player a multiple-choice approach, in which the player is faced with the possibility of develop one building in different way. This is allowed by the rtw hardcoded engine, however it has never been used in modifications.
The AI seems to answer pretty good.

Each culture group - and each faction - will have particular and unique buildings.
Particular are buildings allowed to a faction or a certain group of factions, e.g. an etruscan necropolis will be built up only by etruscans and not by greeks. Unique buildings are a set of several buildings already built - or with a placeholder - that will be created under certain circumstances by the player or via script; they exist only in certain cities, e.g. the roman forum who exist only in Rome, and could be upgraded ingame under certain condition.

Another thing is to substitute actual rtw buildings with new ones that will give different and several choices.

Several buildings are already developed, in development or wait some ideas to be shaped better. those ideas will came from YOU, reader :)


already done buildings:


possible remarks:
1- high cost
2- too few time for building it
3- both levels are available on the "large town" stage

Is intended as a "fast" movement of population; colony were "launched" by the mothercity and people sent get money and sometimes slaves were freed. the fact that both are at the same level of development could be fixed, however by script it should get an x increase of population - maybe the right one to get the further level. in this way, by a building, we could develop faster the city.


possible remarks:
1- too high cost (expecially for the didaskaleion)
2- the diplomat recruiting

The high cost is intended as a cost not for the structure in itself, but for the teachings. diplomats should need a basic school training, and the didaskaleion offers it. however, the idea was to improve the preparation of diplomats, and that's why the "+1" works. a possible solution is to recruit diplomats only in governmental structures, but so:

agent diplomat 0 requires factions {eastern, } and not building_present_min_level scuola didaskaleion
agent diplomat 1 requires faction {eastern, } and building_present_min_level scuola didaskaleion
it should made sure that is not the didaskaleion to recruit the diplomats.


possible remarks:
1- the trade income bonus on bibliokapelos and not in the developments
2- too high cost for the developments
3- too much time for the developments
4- diplomat bonus

the bibliokapelos is a "book-seller", who commerce, while libraries and state archives are not. i know maybe is not a proper "line" of buildings; they are more "book-related stuff" and not the development of a single building. about the high time, we know that to make a true library, much money and time was needed, not for the building in itself, but because of the scarcity of books. state archive, like the roman tabularium, were collecting treaties and so on among books, annals and so; it seems me logic that diplomats should increase their knowledge.


https://img365.imageshack.us/img365/6057/ginnasioaq8.th.jpg (https://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ginnasioaq8.jpg)
possible remarks:
1- the Sphairisterion develop in a city and not in a large city (like Peristylion and Exedra)
2- there is a morale bonus for troops on Palaistra, Peristylion, Xystos and Sphairisterion but the others not give it
3- too high costs for high-level developments, expecially if confronted to base level
4- too high time for the high-level developments
5- the sphairisterion not develop on some other building like the other does

first of all, a Sphairisterion is a large spot of ground, used as a sort of race track, and occasionally as a military training field. So, since i could create max 8 levels of buildings, is logic that: 1- a land clearance for a sphairisterion could be done even in a village, and does not "need" many citizens, and 2- a large spot of ground used as a racetrack means that i will not build something on, so there are no more buildings there. The fylakeion or the barracks are reqired, since such a structure will be used sometime - or often - by the local greek military, who see it as a good place where to spent time, and the officers will encourage them in wrestling, running and so on.
Also, it offers a good happiness bonus and a +2 morale to "compensate" the better
bonuses that come from other developments.
As said before, military will like to frequent the gymnasion if there are some massive sport activities, even proper training; a skole, and its development, makes the gymnasion a study place, and in an akroaterion were held university-like lessons, so to keep silence is almost essential, and there is no fun in wrestling on the nearby palaistra if you could not cry. Study on philosophy, rhetoric and so on will make diplomats skilled, too.
About the high time and cost, it should be sad that the gymnasion could became large and complex structure; while a "basic" one could be just a large spot of ground, they like to embellish it with statues, marbles, proper rooms where to spent some time, get washed by olive oil and dust, and so on. it took a lot of money to be spent.



https://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7205/pifabbroky5.th.png (https://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pifabbroky5.png)

- 4.1- Sarissopoios (sarissa-maker)
- 3.1- Machairopoios (swordmaker)
- 3.2- Akonopoios (javelinmaker)
- 2.1- Stratopoiia (warsmith) 3.3- Kranopoios (helmetmaker)
1.1- Chalkeion
- (smith)
- 2.2- Douloi Chalkoirgoi 4.2- Douloi Techniteis Chalkourgoi
- (slave workers) (skilled slave workers)




1- Fylakeion 2- Fylake

The Fylake is a sort of military garrison; Fylakeion is a little one.





2.1 Limen Emporikous (commercial port) => 2.2 Megas Limen Emporikous (large commercial port)
1- (basic port) 3.1 Limen Neorikous (commercial and military port) => 3.2 Megas Limen Neorikous (large commercial & military)

4.1 Neorion (military harbour) => 4.2 Megas Neorion (large military arsenal)

how they work?
1- the basic port offers very little trade and as only recruitable unit the triakonter.
2.1 the commercial port has a boost on trade, and you could recruit just the triakonter, a cercurus and a merchant vessel.

2.2 tha large commercial port has a larger boost on trade but the same weakness of recruitable units; just triakonter, cercurus, a merchant vessel , pentekonter and a keles kataskopos.
3.1 the commercial and military port is intended as the better compromise about trade and military necessities; it will offer an average economic boost and a good range of ships: merchant vessel, triacontere, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia.

3.2 the large commercial/military port will bring the same economic bonus of a little commercial port and offer the wide range of: triakonter, merchant vessel, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia, trihemiolia, trireme.
4.1 the military arsenal will have almost no trade bonus (will just mantain the one of the little basic port) but units here will be a little cheaper due to the more skilled workers in here. units: triakonter, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia, trihemiolia, trireme.

4.2 the large arsenal mantins the very small commerce bonus and offers the widest range of military units with a +1 experience: triakonter, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia, trihemiolia, trireme, tetrereme, quinquireme, hexereme, heptereme, decereme.



(none at the moment)


03-17-2007, 14:34



03-17-2007, 14:40



03-17-2007, 14:45



Omanes Alexandrapolites
03-17-2007, 14:48
Great ideas Mylae!

However, may I suggest that you implement a bonus for normal characters too from the library by expanding their knowledge and providing them with positive, and perhaps also negative, traits that characters could have received through their studies and reading. For example a positive trait could be "understands ancestral tactics", this could be good or bad depending on how great his ancestors were, or "too interested in reading", a negative trait which causes him to receive a management penalty for spending too much time reading and neglecting his jobs.

Great buildings again, thanks!

03-17-2007, 14:55
Thanks Omanes :)
the traits will be developed after all the buildings have been completed.

just a question: is possible to edit post here, or not? i'm confused... i will like to update constantly the infos, by creating a post for each culture group, but by now i feel confused...

03-17-2007, 15:22
It sounds a great idea.
The kind of idea which demands a lot of work.

I was tweaking smith buildings and barracks in my over-modded VBM; so I'll share my thoughts with you.

My aims was to get rid of the +1 bonus of smiths and make the building a pre-requisite to recruit "elite" troops (ie, armoured hoplites require both army barracks and armourer buildings). That also means the only bonuses to weaponry were granted by temples.
Well that's only true with vanilla's building roster, not with EB's MIC...

Following the same principle, you could state that a town needs a sewer network before it can upgrade to a city.

If you consider separating sewers and public baths, how about giving the public bath the ancillary trigger "equestrian"? It emphasizes the social aspect of the baths

Another idea I had was to implement the "Great Avenues Urbanism", which provides a public order bonus because mobs are easier to control. (directly imported from my last walk in Paris, the Hausmannian boulevards)

I'll edit my post with new ideas; feel free to use it or not.

Omanes Alexandrapolites
03-17-2007, 15:34
just a question: is possible to edit post here, or not? i'm confused... i will like to update constantly the infos, by creating a post for each culture group, but by now i feel confused...I'm sorry, yet I'm not too sure about that. I think that Junior Members can edit posts in hosted modification forums yet not in all other places such as the Entrance Hall, Colosseum or Main Hall. Perhaps the policy that was in about two months ago has changed?

03-17-2007, 15:52
no idea, however my aim was to update the existend posting - that also has just a title - without overcrowding of post in different pages related to different topics.

about smiths, i still use them primarily as a source of weapon bonus :).
however, you could decide to upgrade a smith in a stratopoiia (warsmith) or to use a great manpower of slave smiths - douloi chalkourgikoi, in greek.
obviously a warsmith could specialize in several high quality kind of weapons, and a large slave manpower will furnish the city more low quality but numerous things for various uses, military, agricultural, etc, as well as giving some unrest problems... usually slaves dislike to be slashed by their master, you know? :)

however, who could i ask the permission to modify my post, since i'm a junior member?

Omanes Alexandrapolites
03-17-2007, 16:14
however, who could i ask the permission to modify my post, since i'm a junior member?Don't worry Mylae! I've already contacted the great forum administrator, TosaInu, on your behalf and I doubt he will be too long processing your promotion to full member. Good luck, cheers!

03-17-2007, 16:29

03-18-2007, 10:56
Congrats on your future new rank Mylae :2thumbsup:

03-18-2007, 19:07
Thanks for allowing me edit my post. Updated building, GYMNASION, for greeks.

Another idea I had was to implement the "Great Avenues Urbanism", which provides a public order bonus because mobs are easier to control. (directly imported from my last walk in Paris, the Hausmannian boulevards)

hm... well, we could give to some greek cities the ippodamean urban pattern (streets and avenues forming parallel lines), but this will involve only certain cities, since this depend by the land. But no idea if it could be worth or not..

Gaius Baltar
04-17-2007, 14:31
Greta work! ANxiously awaiting this Mod.

04-19-2007, 01:13
thanks :)

in the following days i will reinstall photoshop and made some new UI.