What shall we apologise for next? Vote now

[English assassin]

Oh, OK, i suppose you want some sort of linky. here, this will do: http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,,2041007,00.html


An annual commemoration day is to be held to recall Britain's role in the slave trade, and the fight against it, John Prescott, the deputy prime minister, has told the Guardian....

"I think this anniversary is beginning to make us think again in the same way as the US. There is a sense of shock and horror at what went on in our history, and the sheer brutality of it. It has not yet fed into the schools. Indeed it has been kept out of the curriculum.

"We need to get the proper history told, including the good, the bad and dreadful. For instance we need to recall that parliament for the best part of a century facilitated slavery. It did not just have an overnight intellectual conversion. Public opinion made the change and forced the change on parliament. We have fed it into our minds that a Christian from Hull, William Wilberforce, came along and changed the law in 1807. It was remarkable, but the real change came from working people.

Digressing even before I get under way, its funny how the working class man thinks it was working people that ended slavery. According to the black activists on my radio it was blacks who ended slavery. Very possibly there is a disabled lesbian activist out there fuming that she has not yet been given a platform to say that it was disabled lesbians who ended slavery.

Annnyway, all this is yanking my chain for reasons far to obvious to go into here. Oh, well, OK, here's one, guess what, Africa isn't in the merde because of corrupt leaders today, its because whitey took slaves away 200 years ago. Oh, Ok then, here is another, funny how we aren't being told all about the Ottoman empires slaves? Barbary pirates slave raiding the coast of Cornwall conveniently does not seem to form part of "proper history".

So, what should we apologise for next? Any bids? Obviously it doesn't have to be anything we are responsible for. I think we should apologise for the destructio of the Great Library at Alexandria, the crusades, malaria, and the fact that Uganda has yet to send a man to the moon.

I also think there should be a Secretary of State for Apologising. Boris Johnson is he obvious choice.

[Fragony]

Don't think so much and just say $orry. And there was me thinking that england's role in slavetrade wasn't that big in the first place.

[English assassin]

Yeah, well you know what? All this victimhood and blame whitey has had the opposite effect on me. I am positively NOT sorry.

I went to Norway a few years back and NO ONE, not one person, told me how sorry they were for the Vikings. Its an outrage.

Come to think of it you Dutchies owe me an apology, not sure exactly what for yet, but there must be something. de Ruyter maybe.

[KukriKhan]

Soccer. You should apologize for soccer.

[Ja'chyra]

Well maybe they should be apologising for Aids, now I know we can't prove it came from Africa but I'm pretty sure that Africans practised slavery at the same time, if not before, we did.

Come to think of it, if all human life originated in Africa doesn't that make them responsible for pretty much everything?

Or we could all just move on and stop all the bloody whining about things that happened hundreds of years ago and, lets face it, have no effect on us.

[Kralizec]

Come to think of it you Dutchies owe me an apology, not sure exactly what for yet, but there must be something. de Ruyter maybe.

On the other hand, you owe us for the Glorious Revolution :smug:

[Adrian II]

So, what should we apologise for next?For being a bunch of pathetic, chronically outperformed, insufferably stupid, apologetic whiners?

Sorry, old chum, that place is taken by the Dutch. :balloon2: :coffeenews:

[InsaneApache]

I think we should apologise for founding the USA. :hide:

This ferver for apologising is preposterous. I'm with you EA on this one. When I was in Italy last year no-one apologised to me for invading in AD 55, and it still smarts. :laugh4:

Prescott should make an apology for continuosity mangling the England language, like what he said. :2thumbsup:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Come to think of it you Dutchies owe me an apology, not sure exactly what for yet, but there must be something. de Ruyter maybe.

They thumped you in 1620 wasn't it?

Some of our African-descent "victimage merchants" keep trying to make me feel guilty for the enslaved blacks who ended up at Jamestown colony in 1623, so I think it is EXACTLY as reasonable for you to hold a grudge over Dutch iniquities from the early 17th.

Wait.....didn't they let you borrow a king or something a bit later on? And wasn't he the chap who thumped MY ancestors at the Boyne? Maybe we can all gripe and grudge against those nasty dutchies!

To the barricades!!!!! :wiseguy:

[Adrian II]

They thumped you in 1620 wasn't it?You are getting close. You are even dead right about the Boyne. On the other hand, we were the first to recognize the sovereign United States of America. Barbara Tuchman named a book after it: The First Salute.

[caravel]

Well the whole PR thing was usually along the lines of: "do something nasty and apologise later, preferably much later", that makes it ok. Now it's evolved into: "do something nasty, then apologise for something else, totally unrelated, that happened two hundred years ago to distract their attention... then get back to talking about the carbon footprint of the Iraq war".

[Gregoshi]

On the other hand, we were the first to recognize the sovereign United States of America.
Ah, so ultimately, it is the Dutch that are responsible for the Iraq mess. ~;)

[KukriKhan]

Ah, so ultimately, it is the Dutch that are responsible for the Iraq mess. ~;)

Yeah. If we'd have only put them in charge of the Iraq affair, they'd have offered Saddam 60 Guilders for Baghdad. Problem solved.

[English assassin]

Soccer. You should apologize for soccer.

I might if we ever won anything.

I'd like to add Hugh Grant to my earlier list of apologies.

I'd also like to apologise for Roger Moore ever having been cast as James Bond, except for Live and Let Die, which is not too bad.

[Whacker]

I'd like to profusely apologize to the rest of the world for the stupidity of my fellow Americans, whom I am deeply ashamed of, for re-electing our current government officials. :shame:

[Petrus]

I think you should apologize for being english.
But.
Given the fact that european and arabs slave traders came to buy slave from the local traders that were africans.
Which made of those africans the first part of the slave trade chain.
You should also apologize for having let slave traders rule africa until this day instead of sending them abroad.

Shame on you.

[Pannonian]

Has Britain apologised for the Opium War yet? Or don't the Chinese care about that?

[Vidar]

I'd like to profusely apologize to the Picts for coming over from Ireland and stealing there land and any unpleasantness this incurred. Sorry It wont happen again, I promise :shame:

[BDC]

I think those with proper working class blood, pre-1918, so disenfranchised, should demand an apology for centuries of being downtrodden by the rich and powerful.

And the rich and powerful had a lot more Norman blood. So you know who should be apologising to us, for everything? The French.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Digressing even before I get under way, its funny how the working class man thinks it was working people that ended slavery. According to the black activists on my radio it was blacks who ended slavery. Very possibly there is a disabled lesbian activist out there fuming that she has not yet been given a platform to say that it was disabled lesbians who ended slavery.

I ended slavery and so did my wife. :yes:

To join the parade of guilt, I have a great sin to apologise for on behalf of my nation. A sin of the utmost barbarity and cruelty, even though many nations were also complicit in its spread.

The Irish theme pub. :shame: We're so sorry, but it was just too funny watching you all lapping up the "authenticity".

Right, in the fine tradition of confession, that's off me chest, now to do it again till next Lent. ~:cheers:

[Devastatin Dave]

I ain't sorry for ****. If there are any complaints, please address them to the nearest brick wall. :juggle2:

[Whacker]

sorry, but it was just too funny watching you all lapping up the "authenticity".

Aahhh... The bane of every American college town, the bars that draw the fratboys like flies and have the bouncers that won't let you in unless you are a pledge in Aye Phelta Thigh. You apology is noted and appreciated, but I don't think that you poor Irish types are really to blame for this.

[Vladimir]

Aahhh... The bane of every American college town, the bars that draw the fratboys like flies and have the bouncers that won't let you in unless you are a pledge in Aye Phelta Thigh. You apology is noted and appreciated, but I don't think that you poor Irish types are really to blame for this.

It's no doubt a conspiracy by decedents of English immigrants to stick it to the Irish once again. In the back they probably have a sign that reads "No dogs or Irish allowed".

[SwordsMaster]

I think the UK should apologise for meat pies. And Haggis. And the seventies. And possibly Paul McCartney. And Robbie Williams. Definitely Robbie Williams

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Being of mixed Welsh/Swedish/poor English I'm not really connnected to the slave trade.

The Chancellor at Exeter is Floella Benjamin, she gave a speech at the University on how we should pay reparations. The entirely white audience rejected it be a vote of 16 to 34, I think.

Now, excuse me for being so politically incorrect but don't the decendants of slaves in Europe and the US have all the same advantages that the rest of us do. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want a "thankyou for oppressing my ancestors" but I can't see how the negative outways the posative.

So I'm not remotely sorry, it has nothing to do with me.

Now, if you wanted me to apoloagise to the Iraqi's for destroying their country I might just do that, even though I didn't, and couldn't, vote for Blair.

Banquo, I feel that the English are probably more responsible for the Irish theme Pub, after all we bought it. You'll have to find something else.

Oh, as a Swede I would like to appolagise for tall beautiful women with clear blue eyes and blond hair.

As a Welshman I would like to apolagise for Leeks.

As an Englishman I would like to apolagise for Shakespeare, I'm really sorry you had to go through that at school.

[Husar]

I want to apologise for my ancestors and that they worked together with the Pope.
I also want to apologize that we elected someone from Austria to lead our nation and that our non-elected government decided to side with Austria before that.
Oh, and then I want to apologise for the EU regulations on tampon imports as well.:dizzy2:

I also want to ask, whether you mean the brick wall nearest to me or nearest to you, Apologising Dave?

[Blodrast]

I also want to ask, whether you mean the brick wall nearest to me or nearest to you, Apologising Dave?

ROFL! Apologising Dave sounds much better than Devastatin Dave!:laugh4: :2thumbsup:

[Fragony]

I want to apologise for my ancestors and that they worked together with the Pope.
I also want to apologize that we elected someone from Austria to lead our nation and that our non-elected government decided to side with Austria before that.
Oh, and then I want to apologise for the EU regulations on tampon imports as well.:dizzy2:


You forgot one tiny one, or should austria do the sorry thing now ~;)

edit: no you didn't never mind

[drone]

Oh, as a Swede I would like to appolagise for tall beautiful women with clear blue eyes and blond hair.
You don't have to apologize for that. :2thumbsup:

I want to apologize for my family starting the Civil War. I'm sure they meant well... ~:doh:

[Whacker]

You forgot one tiny one, or should austria do the sorry thing now ~;)

edit: no you didn't never mind

I'd like to apologize for Fragony failing at posting in this thread and life in general. :shame:

PS - AYE YAYE YAYE YAYE YAYE!!! AYEYAYEYAYEYAYEYAEYAEYAEYAEYEAY!!! I'm going to put that as coworker's Mozilla startup page tomorrow and turn up his speakers all the way when I get a chance. :grin: What the hell is that from anyway?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Oh, Ok then, here is another, funny how we aren't being told all about the Ottoman empires slaves? Barbary pirates slave raiding the coast of Cornwall conveniently does not seem to form part of "proper history".

Well the whole concept of leftist proper history is based on the fact that the leftists hate society, and so want to make it seem as though everything bad that ever happened is a fault of that society. And since their thoughts are run by political correctness, they won't have any history that speaks badly about minorities or immigrants.

Hmm, that was supposed to be witty and funny, but came out serious. Meh.

As a white male in America, I feel compelled to apologize for:
Slavery, though I hate it and my ancestors had nothing to do with it save perhaps dying to stop it;
Capitalism, as the idea that people should earn what they get is of course evil;
War, as it was invented by Americans;
Indian Reservations, though they now get rich off gamblers;
Terrorism, as our mere existence is reason enough to kill people;
Hurricanes, because Al Gore says so;
Republicans, surely the spawn of Satan with their uncompassionate, hateful minds;
WWII, next time we won't even get involved;
The WoT; next time we'll stubbornly ignore people trying to kill us;
AIDs in Africa, how could it not be because of US corporation greed?;
AIDs in Homosexuals, as funding huge programs is the only preventative measure;
Any diseases, anywhere, somehow, it's our fault;
Pollution, invented by those filthy capitalists;
Trees being cut in the Amazon, because we build stuff with wood;
Self-Reliance, tempting people away from the nanny-state is a deadly sin;
The USA, founded by killing millions of indigenous people for fun and expanded on the blood of the poor;
Rich people, they didn't earn their money;
Poverty, we are ignoring the root causes that conveniently have nothing to do with responsibility;
Anything someone complains about, anywhere, is somehow our fault;
Etcetera, etcetera.

Crazed Rabbit

[Whacker]

C'mon rabbit, get it right. AIDS was invented by the American government, not corporations, as the "solution" to homosexuality. It's still our fault though and we should apologize for it.

[English assassin]

I ain't sorry for ****. If there are any complaints, please address them to the nearest brick wall.

I would like to apologise for Dev Dave.

[Crazed Rabbit]

C'mon rabbit, get it right. AIDS was invented by the American government, not corporations, as the "solution" to homosexuality. It's still our fault though and we should apologize for it.

But is was the corporations that pushed for it, right? Or are they the ones cutting down all the trees...

CR

[Whacker]

I would like to apologise for Dev Dave.

I'd like to apologize for English assassin apologizing for Dave.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Rabbit, you forgot the responsibility for George W Bush melting the polar bears and clubbing baby seals with Amazonian rainforests.

No, honestly, it's genuine leftist history. I swear it. :yes: :wink:

[HoreTore]

Not sure if this is on topic or not, but I'd like to make a comment on the article in question...

Sure, the slavery ended centuries ago, but can you really say the oppression ended very long ago, if indeed it ever has? Racism, if you haven't noticed, is a very big problem. So, it is quite obvious that something has to be done to stop it. This is one thing intended to do that.

But in this case, I have to say that it is not made very clever... A different angle/spin on it, and it could be good...

[Whacker]

Not sure if this is on topic or not, but I'd like to make a comment on the article in question...

Sure, the slavery ended centuries ago, but can you really say the oppression ended very long ago, if indeed it ever has? Racism, if you haven't noticed, is a very big problem. So, it is quite obvious that something has to be done to stop it. This is one thing intended to do that.

But in this case, I have to say that it is not made very clever... A different angle/spin on it, and it could be good...

Oppression as you define it didn't really stop (legally) in the US until the Civil Rights movements of the 60's. As for racism, yes it's a big problem, in fact one of the big areas I see as an issue is so-called reverse-racism that's viewed as "justified" or "acceptable". It needs to stop as a whole, period.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Rabbit, you forgot the responsibility for George W Bush melting the polar bears and clubbing baby seals with Amazonian rainforests.

No, honestly, it's genuine leftist history. I swear it. :yes: :wink:

Gah! What a fool I've been! I apologize most deeply for my error, and even more deeply for George Bush, clearly the embodiment of fiendish evil and flagrant stupidity at the same time, and for all the terrible thing he's done, especially the polar bear melting and seal clubbing.

CR

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I apolagise for the irritating English need to constantly apolagise all the time. Oh, is this post taking up unnessessary bandwidth?

I'm sorry.:shame:

[Hosakawa Tito]

I'm sorry that Australopithecus ever left the trees. Oh for the simple life, however brutish and short. Have a banana...

[Gregoshi]

I am sorry. At least that is what people tell me. :shame:

[Adrian II]

Apologise for Robbie Williams?

I don't think so.

There is no valid excuse for Robbie Williams. None. Whatsoever.
:brood:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

C'mon rabbit, get it right. AIDS was invented by the American government, not corporations, as the "solution" to homosexuality. It's still our fault though and we should apologize for it.

By the REAGAN administration as payback to Falwell, Robertson, Swaggart, & Jim & Tammy Baker.

Let's get our conspiracies well organized shall we!

[Devastatin Dave]

I'd like to apologize for English assassin apologizing for Dave.
I would like to apoligise for those who have to apologise for those that are apologising for me... boy this could be a long one...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Apologise for Robbie Williams?

I don't think so.

There is no valid excuse for Robbie Williams. None. Whatsoever.
:brood:

Well we have sort of apolagised, we got the rest of the band back together and stopped buying his records.

[Whacker]

I would like to apoligise for those who have to apologise for those that are apologising for me... boy this could be a long one...

Dear .Org

I'd like to apologize on behalf of the Dave, who's apologizing me who apologized for English assassin who apologized for Dave, for apologizing for all of us for apologizing on his behalf.

My apologies.
The End.


By the REAGAN administration as payback to Falwell, Robertson, Swaggart, & Jim & Tammy Baker.

Let's get our conspiracies well organized shall we!

Everybody's gotta be a perfectionist here, huh?!?!?? :shame:

Also, I'd like to apologize for being such an amazingly studly human being.

There is NO correlation between the above statement and the fact that my wife tells me the same thing that apparently everyone else tells Gregoshi, thankyouverymuch.

[AntiochusIII]

This whole thing is getting sorta long-winded, and nice of CR to take the opportunity to insert an anti-Left attack into the thread too, that.

Gah!

*goes raid Cornwall with some Algerians*

[Crazed Rabbit]

This whole thing is getting sorta long-winded, and nice of CR to take the opportunity to insert an anti-Left attack into the thread too, that.

Gah!

*goes raid Cornwall with some Algerians*

I'm deeply sorry, I hope you're not offended.

Crazed Rabbit

[InsaneApache]

I'll bet the Algerians are though. ~;)

[AntiochusIII]

I'll bet the Algerians are though. Sensitive bunch, the lot of them. Being sorta former slaves to the French does that to everyone, though.

[Hepcat]

Our government seems to have apologitis too, though it all stems from the Treaty of Waitangi. Recently people are saying that the government shouldn't own the rivers and that they should be ceded to Maori iwi, but WHAT IS THE POINT! What difference does it make whether the Maori or the government own the rivers? It'll just mean that if they start getting polluted then it will be the local Maori leaders who are responsible for fixing it, but do they have the resources to do something about it? NO! :wall:

The only international power we have ever offended is the USA when we gave them the big finger back during the Cold War and they suspended all defence obligations to us. So if the Reds attacked little old NZ then America was just going to say "I told you so!" (in theory). This is because of our country's stern anti-nuclear policy, the British could accept it, but not you Yanks. And George W Bush has still maintained the suspension of all US defence obligations to NZ (in fact every President since it happened has).

And I'm NOT apologizing to the USA! :beam:

[Adrian II]

Apology Fries, anyone? :balloon2:

[Hosakawa Tito]

Make mine sweet potato apology fries please. goes better with the gall encrusted crow and pint of bitters....

[Gregoshi]

The crow goes down better with some sweet and sorry sauce - but no regrits.

[KukriKhan]

I ain't sorry for ****. If there are any complaints, please address them to the nearest brick wall.

Almost like the old joke: "To insure compassionate, caring customer service, we have hired Ms. Waite here to handle any and all complaints, comments, critiques or criticisms. So, should you find you have an axe to grind, or an urgent need to skip the queue because your issue just can't be delayed... kindly go to Helen Waite."

I apologize for ancient humor perpetrated on the unsuspecting next generations.

And I apologise for mis-spelling apologise and humour.

So England was the first Euro nation to abolish slavery? One would think that in itself would be something to proud of, not something to generate recrimination and grousing. Some countries had to fight huge wars to decide the matter. To have done it first, and peacefully: Bravo! :thumbsup:

[spmetla]

I guess I'll then apologize for being of the same skin color as the evil sugar farmers that overthrew an incompetant monarchy, created a republic, and then had that republic annexed to the US.

I apologize for the world outside of Europe not smelling of roses, sunshine, and rainbows like it surely did before the Europeans dared to leave their own continent.

I apologize for my state's tourism industry that projects Hawaii as an untainted paradise when in fact it's just like the rest of the US just more tropical.

I apologize for the missionaries that came to Hawaii and told the topless women to cover up and not sleep with all the foriegn sailors- I'm sincere about this one!

You Brits should apologize for Captain Cook discovering Hawaii.

[ajaxfetish]

Sure, the slavery ended centuries ago,
I've heard that there are an estimated 25 million people worldwide held in slavery today. No nation legally recognizes slavery; that doesn't mean it's gone.

Ajax

[HoreTore]

So England was the first Euro nation to abolish slavery? One would think that in itself would be something to proud of, not something to generate recrimination and grousing. Some countries had to fight huge wars to decide the matter. To have done it first, and peacefully: Bravo! :thumbsup:

We didn't have slavery in Norway since the viking age... So we were before them! :laugh4:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Sorry for being a party pooper, but what's so awful about a nation acknowledging its past?

A state represents the continuity of a nation. Individual people are not guilty for more than their own share, and are by default innocent of the acts of their forebears, but a nation is not.

It has been through a responsible acceptance of its past that Germany has reclaimed its place amongst the civilised democracies. Equally, I frown upon the stubborn pride of nations like Japan who keep adding insult to injury by calling the victims of their mass rapes 'prostitutes'.

Events over time slowly change from living memory to history, and apologising for what belongs to the realm of history is silly and impossible. But I'm not entirely sure that the behaviour of western slave trading nations, of western colonialism, plunder and racist policy can be brushed aside as 'ancient history'.

Whatever ifs and buts there are, a simple acknowledgement of the faults of our past would suit the colonial western states.

[The_Doctor]

I apologise for not being born at the dawn of time and having god-like powers, so that I could prevent war, slavery, death and France.

[Duke Malcolm]

So England was the first Euro nation to abolish slavery? One would think that in itself would be something to proud of, not something to generate recrimination and grousing. Some countries had to fight huge wars to decide the matter. To have done it first, and peacefully: Bravo! :thumbsup:

Scotland was. The Court of Session ruled slavery illegal under Scots Law in the 17th century...

I apologise for my pedantry and the erstwhile magnificence of this land. and for Glen's vodka. And Tennent's beer.

[Ja'chyra]

I like Glens vodka

[Fragony]

I'd like to apologize for Fragony failing at posting in this thread and life in general. :shame:

PS - AYE YAYE YAYE YAYE YAYE!!! AYEYAYEYAYEYAYEYAEYAEYAEYAEYEAY!!! I'm going to put that as coworker's Mozilla startup page tomorrow and turn up his speakers all the way when I get a chance. :grin: What the hell is that from anyway?

My theme song, and don't say sorry untill you are, how dare you mock my greatness?

[Incongruous]

Slavery was an accepted part of every society, including African. It is a joke to think that anyone should apologise for it.

[Kralizec]

Slavery was an accepted part of every society, including African. It is a joke to think that anyone should apologise for it.

I agree in principle that we shouldn't apologize for stuff our ancestors did centuries ago especially when they were practiced by just about everyone, but on the other hand a lot of people look back at those same periods and glorify their national past, wich in that light is distastefull IMHO.

[Fragony]

I agree in principle that we shouldn't apologize for stuff our ancestors did centuries ago especially when they were practiced by just about everyone, but on the other hand a lot of people look back at those same periods and glorify their national past, wich in that light is distastefull IMHO.

I hope you aren't talking about the VOC remark of il Balkenende here :juggle2:

[KukriKhan]

I heard this interview "Africa Ignores Slave-Trade Anniversary" on the radio yesterday, in which 'Charles Onyango-Obbo, a writer for Uganda's largest newspaper, offers his thoughts on why few Africans are taking note of the event.'

Link to the page (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9121033), with a "Listen" button, to hear the 3-minute interview. Interesting take from a descendant of african slavetrade collaborators.

[Kralizec]

I hope you aren't talking about the VOC remark of il Balkenende here :juggle2:

I wasn't, Balkenende's remark was innocent. The VOC didn't trade in slaves to any meaningful extent. It probably would have been different if he had said WIC, because at some point that company relied on slave trade almost exclusively I recall.

[Fragony]

I thought WIC was a pirate fleet during the dutch/spanish war?

edit: wiki says you are right, new one for me

[Kralizec]

Both the WIC and VOC were private corporations that had a state-sanctioned monopoly on western and eastern trade respectively. I believe both occasionally engaged in piracy, but other then that I don't know much about either of them.

[Brenus]

Slavery was invented and organise by evil lefties based on Marx and Engel writing few centuries before they were born. Typically, this pre-communist concept allowed rich to become richer and any way, some slaves were better treated than so-called free workers…
Capitalism, as the idea that people should NOT owned what they an grab is of course evil;
War, as it was very well understood and exploited by Americans;
Indian Reservations, though the survivors who didn’t died from small pox and alcoholism now get rich off gamblers;
Terrorism, as our mere existence is reason enough to kill people, if needed one;
Hurricanes, because Al Gore says so;
Republicans, (US concept of)surely the spawn of Satan with their uncompassionate, hateful minds;
WWII, next time we will avoid to be attacked by Japan and Germany. We didn’t tried hard enough last time;
The WoT; next time we'll stubbornly ignore people trying to kill us; We will kill them more efficiently before.
AIDs in Africa, how could it not be because of US corporation greed? Why should someone NOT right to make money on Death, Suffering and pain? Who blame doctors?;
AIDs in Homosexuals, as why funding huge programs is the only preventative measure when you can sold expensive medicaments;
Any diseases, anywhere, somehow, it's our fault. Why again blame the industries to want to make profit in selling drugs. It is not their duties, they are not charities. And people enable to pay, too bad for them…
Pollution, invented by those filthy capitalists: Then you obliged people to pay for the decontamination: double money.
Trees being cut in the Amazon, because we build stuff with wood; we build staff with plastic as well…
Self-Reliance, tempting people away from the nanny-state is a deadly sin, excepted for protection of course. Police, Churches, army and judges are here to protect us again these miserable masses we starved to death and oppress. At least the State is good for something.
The USA, founded by killing millions of indigenous people for fun and profit and expanded on the blood of the poor;
Rich people, they didn't earn their money in exploiting first slavery then immigrants then in exporting misery every where; They didn’t kill every people asking for a rise of salary and asking for dignity and rights… The lefties did it, but not nice rightist capitalists…
Poverty, we are ignoring the root causes that conveniently have nothing to do with responsibility, when we are helping dictatorships, stopping any unions to develop (bloody lefties want to take our money and decrease OUR profits), arming rebel generals etc..
Anything someone complains about, anywhere, is somehow our fault;:beam:

[Incongruous]

I agree in principle that we shouldn't apologize for stuff our ancestors did centuries ago especially when they were practiced by just about everyone, but on the other hand a lot of people look back at those same periods and glorify their national past, wich in that light is distastefull IMHO.

So Europeans cannot take pride in their history?
Pathetic.

[Ignoramus]

I hate all this apologising. We apologise because like everyone else we allowed slavery 200 years ago. However, Britian doesn't have slavery any more, unlike other countries like Pakistan, and I don't see everyone jumping on Pakistan.

[thrashaholic]

Scotland was. The Court of Session ruled slavery illegal under Scots Law in the 17th century...

I apologise for my pedantry and the erstwhile magnificence of this land. and for Glen's vodka. And Tennent's beer.


Slavery was made illegal in England in 1102...


Also Brenus... on your little anti-capitalist rant there... do you realise that William Wilberforce, the leading figure in the abolitionist movement was a Tory? Also did you know that Adam Smith was anti-slavery? Indeed any right-minded liberal economist would be, since slavery removes the incentive structure from working. One gets more and better work from wage labourers.

Slavery was an unfortunate vestige of the more 'left-wing' philosophy of mercantilism. State over individual, deliberate market imperfections to 'make people better off', wage control (zero in the case of slaves...) and all that dross...

On topic though, no we definitely should not say sorry, pay reparations (Dr. Rowan Williams suggests) or any such nonsense. The heaping of blame on whites and the west for the ills of the world as is the vogue at the moment is ridiculous. It drives me up the bloody wall when they do an interview with a black person on the subject of slavery and they say nonsense like "I can still feel the anguish of my ancestors...", yah bloody right you can... the entire incident happenned 200 years ago, it's an irrelavence.

The trouble is that there's far to much misinformation on the subject bandied around, misinformation that's embedded in identity politics, namely Afro-Carribean people identifying themselves in reference to slavery and to their struggle against their supposed nemesis: white people. This is why there are calls for apologies, because it's the only thing they have, so even if we apologised now, 10 years down the line there'd be a call for another one. Indeed a lot of peoples suffer from their identity being derived solely as 'victims' of whites: the entire post-colonial Latin-American socio-economic theory of development (which a lot of other ex-colonies elsewhere have unfortunately embraced) is based on it. Apologies will just deepen their dependence on such fatuousness.

There are far more recent and relavent things communities should be apologising for... why don't the black community take the lead and apologise and pay reparations for all the damage they caused to the police (and hence the state) and innoncent home-owners and shop-keepers whose windows were smashed, cars burned and property stolen in their multiple 'race riots'...?

[AntiochusIII]

So Europeans cannot take pride in their history?
Pathetic.It's pretty obvious he means something much less drastic.

Sure, you people can take all the pride in your history -- there's nothing wrong with that. But what I suspect he's talking about is along the lines of glorifying the past. "We were a great empire back then; we were all proud people back then; it was good back then; we were the richest and most civilized people in the world back then..." People often completely forget that the beauty and prosperity of the Renaissance might as well be partially and/or indirectly funded by the ruinous, brutal actions of conquistadors and slave-traders thousands of miles away.

There's no need to apologize for "past" crimes by "white people" or whatever. But it is wise to recognize that the past is not all Lords and Ladies. After all, Japan has been, quite rightfully, heavily criticized for its ugly refusal to come to terms with a certain brutal episode of its history; and Germany commended for the very opposite.

Point is, no need for apology -- don't distort and "purify" the past either. That revisionist attitude is the stuff that helps propel blind nationalism forward. It's obviously moronic to blame a person for whatever crimes his or her ancestors commit; a question thus remains, is it logical to extend the position so that a person could not truly claim the glory of his or her ancestors also?

Oh, and to generally address the thread, could you people stop pretending to be apologizing? It sort of lost its point to tedious repetition soon after page 1, if not earlier. We get it, it's stupid to "apologize" for something like that, especially on a practical basis. In fact, it's quite moronic. That doesn't mean you all should then act all outraged and prideful and sarcastically display a pretension of apology to express your indignation over and over and over again.

In any case, official apologies for "past crimes" are often made for political and/or symbolic gestures intended usually to ease present tensions or to bring closure to such issues. "Political correctness" advocates' arguments don't usually carry the same weight or are of the same nature anyway.

It just appears to me that the anti-PC crowd, in the backlashes against the PC crowd, often acts out in the same lack of sensibility that they profess to despise in the first place, much to my...disappointment. In an effort to oppose, they become blind to certain facts, viewpoints, and other issues that they would've agreed upon as legitimate and reasonable otherwise.

[InsaneApache]

In that case I'm not sorry. :smash:

[Brenus]

“Do you realise that William Wilberforce, the leading figure in the abolitionist movement was a Tory? Also did you know that Adam Smith was anti-slavery? Indeed any right-minded liberal economist would be, since slavery removes the incentive structure from working. One gets more and better work from wage labourers.”. Oh, two nice righties…
Do YOU know that in fact slavery cost more than the so-call free workers at the time… And that is why it was abandoned… Read he debate in US before the civil war, it is very interesting. Basically and summarised, the South telling the North to give them the same amount of free-workers and slavery will be abolished. Why? Because when a slave is too young it can’t work, when a slave is sick it can’t work, when a slave is too old he can’t work. But the owner still has to pay for the food, the clothes and lodging. But when that happened to a free worker, he was just fired…
Slavery was NOT organised by lefties… The concept of lefties didn’t exist when slavery started (I mean in the meaning of the Triangular Trade), but well organised profit based on exploitation yes. Ok, it wasn’t the same capitalism, and the period was different but…
In fact, I am against apologising for all the past things. And my “rant” was more a reaction of the whining of the Righties, poor Rich unfairly accused… Slavery is a left-wing thing, according to you… You should read little more real lefties, and you will learn few things. I do not know the one from your country, but in mine, they did revolutions which succeeded, sometimes… They free the slaves, they give equal rights to women and they saved children from forced labour in factories owned by your liberal and nice righties…
I would agree about the disinformation. The African are as guilty of the slavery as the Europeans, Arabs and Asians. The kingdoms involved in the trade were Africans. White men were dying of malaria before the quinine. And yes the slavery organised by the Ottoman Empire was as cruel and violent than the Triangular Trade, and nobody ask Turkey to apologise and to compensate Serbia, Bulgaria and all other Balkan States for 500 years of occupation and slavery…

However, I just have a thought: we celebrate victories two hundred years after, even more. So if a country can be proud of its ancestors and “we” won, why couldn’t “we” apologise? You and I have nothing to do with what our ancestors did… That works in both sides…

“State over individual, deliberate market imperfections to 'make people better off', wage control (zero in the case of slaves...) and all that dross...” Read Bakounine, Louise Michel or Babeuf, and the anarchist movement theories, and you will just touch what the lefties, the hard one, think about the State…

[Kralizec]

Antiochus III nailed it.

Regarding the Japanese, that was some genuine flip-floppery of their minister-president :wall:

[BDC]

Slavery rather fell out of fashion in England when the Normans appeared. Slaves don't work as hard as free men who merely have to pay almost all their money to their lord, but might get to keep some of it if they are lucky. Everyone wins!