So why don't we call the police? [Archive]

Fragony

03-27-2007, 09:15

Or the cliniclowns?

Well this guy can tell you. As you know the PS3 has hit europe, at midnight the shops opened and people were lining up to grab there nice and shiny playstation. It is not unusual that these things atract those that like shiny but hate paying for it, it is just a matter of waiting untill a suffiently weak specimen leaves the store, hit him on the head and run of. Well and that happened. Poor guy stumbles into the shop, bleeding and all that, and what does a good shopkeeper do? Call the police of course! Not only that, he felt sorry for the guy and gave him a new ps3.

Ok, guess what happens next.

1) police catches the guy after a heroic chase
2) police catches fever and is even more useless then they ussualy are
3) police fines shopkeeper because he didn't ask permision to open shop at 12

Any dutchman will know the correct answer, how about you :beam:

CountArach

03-27-2007, 09:22

Oh God... Assuming it is number 3... That is just aweful...

Fight the establishment! :hmg: :nospam:

Fragony

03-27-2007, 09:33

Congrats :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

I heard some countries have a policeforce, here we have dissobedience-tax. I can rape an entire boychoir and win a two week holiday at the state-resorts, but never eat a croissant in the train if you know what's good for you :laugh4:

BDC

03-27-2007, 09:40

CountArach

03-27-2007, 09:42

I heard some countries have a policeforce, here we have dissobedience-tax. I can rape an entire boychoir and win a two week holiday at the state-resorts, but never eat a croissant in the train if you know what's good for you :laugh4:

*adds to list of things to do*

The croissant you sick minded people...:rolleyes:

Geoffrey S

03-27-2007, 11:04

Word. Also, never fart when being searched.

Cronos Impera

03-27-2007, 11:25

Disobedience-tax? What is that?

Kralizec

03-27-2007, 11:35

Any but the most clueless of shop-owners know that there's pretty strict regulation here on when you can run your store. As far as I know there's nothing to suggest that the police made no effort to catch the robber.
A non-issue.

Besides, the robbery shows one of the reasons why it isn't a good idea to have an open shop at night.

Husar

03-27-2007, 11:47

:wall:
What a weird decision is that?
Sounds like they took the easy way out because sitting in their chairs all day long made them unable to chase a criminal.:thumbsdown:

Besides, the robbery shows one of the reasons why it isn't a good idea to have an open shop at night.
Robberies can also happen at daytime. The bad thing here is that robbers get away too often while policemen are busy following regulations and filling out forms. If the stolen things aren't worth a million, they often give up early anyway.

Adrian II

03-27-2007, 11:55

Never eat a croissant in The Netherlands tour court if you know what's good for you. And Italian boys' choirs are a lot more seductive. Maltese police will actually run after a robber, pity they can't afford ps3's over there. Ah, the grass is always greener...

*smacks Fragony*

Fragony

03-27-2007, 11:56

Disobedience-tax? What is that?

I have to include some rabid populist lingo, otherwise they don't believe I wrote it.

Kralizec

03-27-2007, 12:32

:wall:
What a weird decision is that?
Sounds like they took the easy way out because sitting in their chairs all day long made them unable to chase a criminal.:thumbsdown:

Robberies can also happen at daytime. The bad thing here is that robbers get away too often while policemen are busy following regulations and filling out forms. If the stolen things aren't worth a million, they often give up early anyway.

I repeat, I haven't seen anything that says or suggests that the police didn't go after the robber. If you have, show me.

The shop-owner should have known that he was breaking the law and has no reason whatsoever to whine about it. If he asked a permit like he was supposed to there'd be no problem, and the police could have been more alert on robberies (or you'd have good reason to accuse them of not doing their job)

The fact that cops give some cases of theft more priority then others has less to do with laziness and more with cost-benefit considerations. Spending hundreds of man-hours to solve every petty theft equals pissing away tax money.

Fragony

03-27-2007, 12:39

priority

There it is,

http://www.flitsservice.nl/rpics_2002/26112002/baarlo/foto2.jpg

sorry couldn't resist, it's true though.

Andres

03-27-2007, 13:57

3) police fines shopkeeper because he didn't ask permision to open shop at 12

Well, it's not because A commits a robbery that B can open a shop without permission... Both are infractions.

As for priorities, it seems like the Belgian police force has the same priorities as the Dutch one...

I even have first-hand experience : a 50,00 € fine for driving 10 km's too fast on an empty highway on New Year's Eve ~:angry:

Louis VI the Fat

03-27-2007, 14:21

Yearly, two million traffic accidents result in 120,000 deaths and 2.5 million injured people in Europe.

Damn right the police should clamp down on speeding and drunken driving. They're the number one cause of mortality for people under the age of 35.

I'd give it much, much higher priority. It's a carnage of such mind-bogglingly high numbers that it resembles a civil war between reckless men who think they have a God-given right to establish their machoness everywhere and everybody else.

:furious3:

[/rant]

InsaneApache

03-27-2007, 14:28

Are these the Policemen you're on about? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIhiymNNKw)

:laugh4:

Crazed Rabbit

03-27-2007, 15:05

Well, it's not because A commits a robbery that B can open a shop without permission... Both are infractions.

As for priorities, it seems like the Belgian police force has the same priorities as the Dutch one...

I even have first-hand experience : a 50,00 € fine for driving 10 km's too fast on an empty highway on New Year's Eve ~:angry:

Is that a 50 euro fine for going 6mph over? Sheesh! I guess they needs to pays for theirs donuts.

Here in the US, speeds are generally set too low on roads in the country, leading to rampant speeding often unchecked by cops. Of course, tis not the speeders so much as idiots at intersections you need to worry about.

Crazed Rabbit

Andres

03-27-2007, 15:06

Yearly, two million traffic accidents result in 120,000 deaths and 2.5 million injured people in Europe.

Are they caused by speeding an sich or by reckless driving? There is a difference imo. I don't see how driving 10 km's too fast, at night, on an empty highway can cause any danger (and I wasn't drunk that night, it was before I went out, after the party, my wife drove, sober).

Off course, it's easier to catch somebody who is speeding than somebody who drives dangerous, i.e. passing somebody on the right, cut somebody on the highway, not keeping enough distance at moderate or high speed, using the mobile phone whilst driving, fatigue (which can result in falling asleep whilst driving) etc, etc...

I agree 100 % on the drunken driving though.

Husar

03-27-2007, 15:08

I repeat, I haven't seen anything that says or suggests that the police didn't go after the robber. If you have, show me.
I haven't, but a chase wasn't mentioned either.

The shop-owner should have known that he was breaking the law and has no reason whatsoever to whine about it. If he asked a permit like he was supposed to there'd be no problem, and the police could have been more alert on robberies (or you'd have good reason to accuse them of not doing their job)
Well, that's right, he should have gotten the permission.

The fact that cops give some cases of theft more priority then others has less to do with laziness and more with cost-benefit considerations. Spending hundreds of man-hours to solve every petty theft equals pissing away tax money.
That's very nice, but also means that those who cannot always afford to get a replacement for what was stolen will be left with nothing while others who could easily afford to replace the stolen goods, get more help. Which is very anti-Robin Hood.

I also agree with Louis, very well said, but police, as most other "agencies" is usually underfunded.

And IA, those videos were hilarious.:laugh4:

BDC

03-27-2007, 16:19

I also agree with Louis, very well said, but police, as most other "agencies" is usually underfunded.

Agencies like police just eat up money. However much they get, they can use.

Louis VI the Fat

03-27-2007, 17:36

Are they caused by speeding an sich or by reckless driving? There is a difference imo. I don't see how driving 10 km's too fast, at night, on an empty highway can cause any danger (and I wasn't drunk that night, it was before I went out, after the party, my wife drove, sober).I don't know how the numbers break down into different categories. But I think the number of traffic accidents that are truly an 'accident', as in an unfortunate string of events that nobody could've prevented is rather small.

Imagine for a second, that all airbags were removed from cars. And in their place a steel spear would be attached, connected to the bumper and aimed at the heart of the driver. How many accidents caused by cars would occur under these circumstances? Quite a few less, I'd imagine.

Now, I realise that a reasonable flow of traffic is a necessity for a functioning society, but I think the balance is swung too towards indulging motorists right now. The most frustrating thing is, that what really is happening on the streets, is a war of macho terrorists against everybody else.

It is the biggest, most deadly war (http://www.prb.org/Template.cfm?Section=PRB&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=13658) that's waged on the planet:

Road traffic accidents—the leading cause of death by injury and the tenth-leading cause of all deaths globally—now make up a surprisingly significant portion of the worldwide burden of ill-health. An estimated 1.2 million people are killed in road crashes each year, and as many as 50 million are injured

http://www.prb.org/images3/RoadInjuries.gifWith numbers ranging in the millions, you wonder if the invention of mororised transport isn't going to have an evolutionary effect. Misplaced bravoura and testosteron may well exterminate its proponents. ~;)

I do not know your driving style, Andres. Maybe you're a respectful, safe driver. And I understand your frustration with getting this ticket.
There is one thing though: when a road appears empty, usually it turns out it was indeed. But it's also true that most who've caused an accident were also quite convinced that the road was clear.

/ Sorry for hijacking this thread. It is simply one of my pet peeves. Too often I've heard that the police should prioritise and be less concerned with writing traffic tickets, and that they should fight real crime instead of motorists. When, in my book, traffic violations are far more important than petty theft.

Adrian II

03-27-2007, 17:43

The most frustrating thing is, that what really is happening on the streets, is a war of macho terrorists against everybody else.Dear Louis, are you advocating a war on motorism? :dozey:

Louis VI the Fat

03-27-2007, 18:29

Dear Louis, are you advocating a war on motorism? Yes, we need a WoM.

I could make a call for a sensible policy towards traffic accident prevention, but a good second language speaker knows that to sound natural one has to apply the cultural idiom of the foreign language too. :book:

Adrian II

03-27-2007, 18:35

Yes, we need a WoM.You're either with us, or you're oncoming! :stop:

Ice

03-27-2007, 19:16

This is hilarious. I don't know what's more funny, a man being fined for opening his shop to the public whenever he pleases or getting fined 50 euros for driving 6 mph over the speed limit on an empty highway on New Year's Eve.

Kralizec

03-27-2007, 19:33

You're saying no such restrictions exist in the USA?

Crazed Rabbit

03-27-2007, 20:04

Csargo

03-27-2007, 20:15

Seamus Fermanagh

03-27-2007, 21:54

Agencies like police just eat up money. However much they get, they can use.

Replace "police" with ANY government-provided service/bureacracy and this sentence still holds true.

Xiahou

03-27-2007, 21:59

I don't know of any laws regulating when stores can operate (except liquor stores).

We do have speed limits, though, and plenty of traffic cops who go around ticketing and fining people for little infractions. Usually though, no one pulls you over unless you're going 5mph over at the very least, often you have to be going 10 mph over before they pull you over. It depends on if the cop is just driving around or waiting with a radar gun to catch someone.

Crazed Rabbit
My state may vary from others, but State Troopers generally don't bother you unless you're going at least 10mph over the limit. Local cops trying to drum up revenue may try to get away with more in the small towns though(if you know the law, you can give the cop a real hard time in court for busting you for <10mph though.). Regardless, I think most traffic enforcement is setup around revenue rather than driver safety- Louis' graphs are there own refutation. If writing speeding tickets really make for safer roads, why do so many still die? We'd be much better off targeting and severely punishing aggressive driving behavior instead of minor speed limit infractions. Of course, that would require such a sea change in the law enforcement/legal community that I doubt it will ever happen. :shame:

As to store hours, it should be a purely business decision. If it's worthwhile for a store to stay open for business at all hours, they should be permitted to do so.

Kralizec

03-27-2007, 22:12

Then again, people are expected to live by the law as it is, not what they think it should be like.

InsaneApache

03-28-2007, 00:38

Louis, under the nom de plume,Luigi, has obviously had the misfortune to drive on the old autostrada.....:sweatdrop:

I'm with everything you say. Only for southern Europe though. :laugh4:

Ronin

03-28-2007, 10:24

I´m not sure what you guys were expecting the police to do here......let me play a little devil´s advocate

let´s look at a couple of points.

1-Guy comes out of store with PS3
2-Guy is robbed and stumbles back into store
3-Store manager calls police
4-Police arrive at store
5-Police fine shoopkeeper for illegal shop opening.

Now...one key data that is not given in the description is....how long (time span) goes between point 2 and 4?...were the police right around the corner and arrived under 1 minute? (I´d say this is unlikely)
So just for argument´s sake let´s say that after the emergency number was called the police sent the closest patrol car to the scene...I´m gonna be optimistic and say that the police arrived in 10 minutes (I know this might be overly optimistic but you´ll see it makes no difference)

Ok...so the police get at scene 10 minutes after point (3) in our story....no way to tell how long it took for the kid to come back to the store and for the actual call to be made....so the police get a description of the robber....(let´s say that)he was a 20 year old...with an old leather jacket...and he grabbed the PS3 and ran away some good 20-25 minutes ago.

Now...another key piece of data that is not given in the original post is were did this take place?....was it in a sleepy country town or in a major metropolitan city? In a small country town maybe you have a likely suspect...a local bad seed or something....but in a big city? if a guy has a 5 minute head start in a big city he´s GONE!...there´s just too many places he can go and hide...

let´s assume it was in a metropolitan city.....

does anyone here think that if the police take off from the store in a daring pursuit they have any chance of finding someone that took off running through a major city some 20 to 25 minutes ago???
They might have the general direction the guy took off on....down a particular street....well and what then? did he go right or left? what about at the next crossing? does he live nearby or far away? is it possible he has a vehicle? is it possible he hid somewere? could he simple had jumped on a bus or subway?

see the problem here?.....should the police expend time in a practically impossible pursuit just so that the guy that was robbed feels better?....after all we´re not talking about hunting down a murder suspect or anything here....

so the police arrive at the store...hear the robbed guy´s story.....they take note of the occurence but is obvious that they can´t do anything about it....to circulate a description would be the best course of action.....just running out into the street in best 3 stooges fashion isn´t gonna acomplish anything......but hey....they were just called to a store that is operating illegaly...

so they fine the store manager.....what else do you expect??

Banquo's Ghost

03-28-2007, 16:01

Louis, you may be interested in the new Danish approach (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/28/bikini_bandits/) to road safety. I'm sure France would embrace the concept.

Topless roadsigns tackle Danish speeding menace
'Speed Control Bikini Bandits'
By Lester Haines
Published Wednesday 28th March 2007 13:05 GMT

Every country has its own particular method of tackling the menace of speeding motorists: in the UK, it's millions of "safety cameras" dishing out fines and penalty points by the bucketload, while in Iraq they still prefer the traditional roadside bomb method for calming Baghdad's traffic.

Over in Denmark, though, the powers that be decided to deploy the nation's best assets to address the nation's rather casual attitude to excess velocity. Step forward the "Bikini Bandits" - "a specially-trained team of enthusiastic young women not afraid to do whatever it takes so that motorists pay more attention to the speed limit".

In fact, so successful did the Bikini Bandits prove that they pretty well brought Copenhagen to a standstill, as the illuminating video shows.

Good show. According to the blurb, the video was "made by the Danish Road Safety Council and aims to draw attention to speed signs and speed limits in Denmark". It adds: "Despite a decrease in speed violations, seven out of 10 Danes still exceed the speed limit on a regular basis. Respecting the speed limits is the simplest way to save lives." ®

Please be aware that the link leads to material that may not be entirely safe for work viewing in some countries, and the video will probably have Kukri banning me forever, but I feel this has a genuine public interest defence.

InsaneApache

03-28-2007, 17:46

I'm certainly interested and I'm a member of the public. :sweatdrop:

doc_bean

03-28-2007, 18:05

Oh my....good thing you're a moderator or you wouldn't see the org again anytime soon I suspect.

Louis VI the Fat

03-28-2007, 19:11

I guess Ronin has pwnd the sentiment of 'shock! horror! teh police maintains law and order when they should be maintaining law and order! no, uh, wait, when they should maintain law and order only insofar as it concerns the others'.
So we might as well revert back to road safety.

the video will probably have Kukri banning me forever, but I feel this has a genuine public interest defence.Alas, this video has some unfortunate nudity in it. Naturally, I should wish this link removed. I would report this post, but I only fear that the overriding concern of Kukri will be the safety of us orgahs indeed. Lord knows how many of our lives will be saved by the neurospychological imprint this video will instill in us.

Louis, under the nom de plume,Luigi, has obviously had the misfortune to drive on the old autostrada.....:sweatdrop:

I'm with everything you say. Only for southern Europe though. :laugh4:I would like to grasp this opportunity to convince you all that Italy is the root of all evil in this world, but I'm afraid you're spot here on and the difference is indeed Latin and civilised Europe.

It was no coincidince that I spoke of macho terrorism in my previous post. Sweden has less than half the relative death toll of France, the UK and Germany about fifty percent, Italy quite a bit more, Greece much more. For all parameters, quality of roads and vehicles etcetera, France, Germany and Britain are roughly equal. The difference between them is, and this is what I'm banging on about, driving culture. People die not because the road was unsafe, but because they happened to be in the way of some macho prick.

I guess my anger is a french thingy, the problem is more acute here than in the UK or some other civilised place. I refuse to speak of traffic 'accidents' anymore when such a large amount is quite simply traffic violence (http://www.violenceroutiere.org/). You know, those guys who spend the whole evening in a bar complaining about the police writing traffic tickets instead of chasing criminals, followed by their exchanging ever fresh and clever jokes about female drivers, only for them to kill a cyclist on their way home. :wall:

InsaneApache

03-28-2007, 19:44

I spent a few months in Portugal years ago and I can say that the EN 125 is purportedly to be the most dangerous road in Europe, for deaths per square mile. Having driven along it's length many times, I'm inclined to agree. That's after I had the unique joy of driving from Bari to Milan on the autostrada.

Perhaps we should confine motoring to northern Europeans? :laugh4:

Talk about a thread being dragged off course. :yes:

Mooks

03-28-2007, 20:17

I wonder how much those women get paid to flash their boobs nonstop everyday.

InsaneApache

03-28-2007, 20:38

You know, that's a good point. I wonder if Mrs. Apache can spare me a few quid! :whip:

Adrian II

03-28-2007, 20:46

Talk about a thread being dragged off course. :yes:Maybe you should call the Dutch police. No wait, they would probably arrest Banquo's Ghost.

'Modding for longer than 45 minutes on end is a transgression of the 1997 Virtual Home Office Labour Law, paragraph 5.786.'
:stop:

BTW I love that Harry Enfield spoof :bow:

Ronin

03-28-2007, 20:47

TODO List:

-Move to Denmark:2thumbsup:

InsaneApache

03-28-2007, 21:46

TODO List:

-Move to Denmark:2thumbsup:

But not via the EN 125 one would hope.....:laugh4:

Ronin

03-28-2007, 22:24

But not via the EN 125 one would hope.....:laugh4:

the EN 125 is not that dangerous anymore....they built a freeway next to it that takes the majority of the traffic now.

Fisherking

03-29-2007, 08:48

The Danish approach seems to work better than fines and slows speeders...do they work in mid winter too?

Watchman

03-29-2007, 10:02

Replace "police" with ANY government-provided service/bureacracy and this sentence still holds true.Because everyone could always do with more resources for getting the job done. More employees to share the (often considerable) workload, a new printer to replace the old one that's been acting funny for the past two years, and the air conditioning needed repairs too... Ever done public-sector office work ? I have. [John Rambo] I seen some bad shit go down, man. [/Rambo]

Now, as with everything there's a point of diminishing returns there past which allocating more resources becomes increasingly cost-inefficient in regards to the original function, and eventually gratuitious and pointless. Although these days it tends to be the other end of the spectrum - too few people have to do too much work, and to boot constantly fill in all kinds of reports proving they are being efficient and doing too much work diligently to the point where submitting those oh-so-necessary reports seriously undermines their actual ability to do their job...
:whip:
New Public Management my ass.

As to store hours, it should be a purely business decision. If it's worthwhile for a store to stay open for business at all hours, they should be permitted to do so.Just out of curiosity, you are aware why work hours were regulated by law to begin with are you...?

Quoth a late-1800s satirical cartoon: "My God, do your workers actually live in those hovels ?" "Oh no, they just sleep in them a little. The rest of the time they're in my factory." :toff:

Proletariat

03-29-2007, 16:16

Quoth a late-1800s satirical cartoon: "My God, do your workers actually live in those hovels ?" "Oh no, they just sleep in them a little. The rest of the time they're in my factory." :toff:

Because a guy wanting to get the jump on the sales for a highly anticipated console release is pretty similar to a 17th century coal mining laborer. Those laws helped protect loads of workers ages ago, and would still be help in those countries with sweat shops today, but let's keep a little perspective here. This didn't happen in a place remotely similar to either of those.

Watchman

03-29-2007, 18:27

:inquisitive: And what would you say the store staff personnel compare to...?

In the 1800s the working stiffs mainly sold their menial labour capacity and their employers tried to give them as raw a deal as they could before legislation finally stepped in. These days in the First World what has mainly changed in the equation is that the proletariat no longer sells strictly menial labour power, but the emplyers will still try to squeeze them dry if they can get away with it. Why do you think there's a market for illegal immigrant labour ?

Around here within about the last ten years or so convenience stores have managed to push their closing hour further by a hour (until 21.00), even for weekends. That tell you something ?

drone

03-29-2007, 18:54

Around here within about the last ten years or so convenience stores have managed to push their closing hour further by a hour (until 21.00), even for weekends. That tell you something ?
Well, here in the States, all that means is that kids get jobs. Most retail jobs like that are paid by the hour, with regulations in place for overtime pay and such. If a store wants to remain open later, it's the part-timers that get extra cash. If the full-timers work longer, they get overtime pay.

The regulation is in the hours a person works, not the hours a store stays open. Want to stay open longer? Hire more people.

Adrian II

03-29-2007, 19:36

(..) too few people have to do too much work, and to boot constantly fill in all kinds of reports proving they are being efficient and doing too much work diligently to the point where submitting those oh-so-necessary reports seriously undermines their actual ability to do their job... New Public Management my ass.There, you've nailed it, you pinko Euro surrender-monkey. Since a couple of years the Dutch police are on so-called 'performance contracts' with set goals, financial cuts and bonuses depending on the fulfillment of same. As a result, officers are either on the street pursuing all the wrong priorities or sitting at their desks writing reports and checking boxes in their contracts.